It's too bad that it'd be so much extra work for them to release bandwidth friendly low-res/lo-fi versions of everything, and then ultimately huge uncompressed amazing versions for those of us with crazy connections and hard drive space to spare.
Its all about marketing; Quality or quantity.. I guess they went for quantity on this subject. :P And I partly agree that its a customer friendly adjustment to lower the size of the game and people with low bandwith can also download.
Then there is the Wii-port limitation on top of that.
And I partly agree that its a customer friendly adjustment to lower the size of the game and people with low bandwith can also download.
Errr...would you call selling leftover meat to people so that they can digest it easier a customer-friendly adjustment? Yes, it may be cheaper, easier, faster...but it's not customer friendly, if so many consumers are complaining allready. A maketing trick - yes. Maybe even a successfull one. But don't try to convince me it was done for my own benefit )))
They can keep all the low-bandwith customers they want; if it means the games are going to sound like this and they're not going to try and fix it, they lost me.
...If it means the games are going to sound like this and they're not going to try and fix it, they lost me.
I don't know...you think they could have missed the problem and released the game? I doubt it...it's not like it's a minor bug, or something that goes easily undetected. So i guess we have to conclude, the game was released like that delibeately and...well...think it means they are not goint to try and fix it.
...A maketing trick - yes. Maybe even a successfull one. But don't try to convince me it was done for my own benefit )))
ToMI wasn't created to please you, it was created to please ALL MI fans.. And you know what they say; "The weakest link comes first!" (Or something like that..)
But I completely agree with you! The sound quality is unbearable to say the least.
I'm just trying to understand why Telltale took this marketing decision!
ToMI wasn't created to please you, it was created to please ALL MI fans.. And you know what they say; "The weakest link comes first!" (Or something like that..):)
Hey, I would have been pleased even if it was released without any sound at all, just for the joy of it...it's just I've always believed: either do something to 100% of your capacity, or not do at all )
They can keep all the low-bandwith customers they want; if it means the games are going to sound like this and they're not going to try and fix it, they lost me.
And me.
When the next season comes out I'll keep an eye on the forums, and if people report the same problems I'm afraid I'm not buying anything.
Eep. As someone who hasn't played it yet (I'll likely get to it sometime over the weekend), this is all a little disconcerting to hear.
Telltale forums were full of people complaining about controls when Wallace & Gromit came out. Telltale's response was that the cinematics work better and it's moving towards better quality storytelling. Acceptable: Telltale's plan is to move adventure games into the future, and this will require the abandon of such mainstays as point-and-click.
But this file size...well, to be honest I didn't notice a dip in quality in episode 1. I guess I don't have the ear to tell such leaps in bit rates (is that a sound term?). But the fact that this is such a noticeable difference (again, haven't heard it yet) that it's ruining the story presentation is my problem.
There's a fence when it comes to adventure games: there's 'Who cares, adventure games are about the puzzles and story, forget the technology, just point and click.' and on the other side there's 'Adventure games should be as attended to as much as any game, there's a future there.' And at this point I wish a side would be picked. And as to the Wii being the future--why not just release it as a game afterwards? Or pretty much any option that doesn't lower the quality of all versions to service one?
Eep. As someone who hasn't played it yet (I'll likely get to it sometime over the weekend), this is all a little disconcerting to hear.
Telltale forums were full of people complaining about controls when Wallace & Gromit came out. Telltale's response was that the cinematics work better and it's moving towards better quality storytelling. Acceptable: Telltale's plan is to move adventure games into the future, and this will require the abandon of such mainstays as point-and-click.
But this file size...well, to be honest I didn't notice a dip in quality in episode 1. I guess I don't have the ear to tell such leaps in bit rates (is that a sound term?). But the fact that this is such a noticeable difference (again, haven't heard it yet) that it's ruining the story presentation is my problem.
I think we're part of the same club, not really being able to hear what the fuzz was about in Episode 1.
Just hopped in to comfort you with the fact that I was not able to hear any sound artefacts or any hissing in Episode 2, APART from the mentioned Elaine dialogue. People have claimed to not be able to follow the story-line. That makes me wonder what happened with their sound systems or their ears. It's a disturbing read here through the forums, but for some reason, it's really noticable for some, and less or not noticable at all for others.
The sound quality is awful. The intro with the voodoo-lady was abysmal. I switched headphones because I was positive something was wrong with them. How can this have gotten so incredibly bad since the first episode?
With Sam & Max, I noticed that the sound wasn't great but didn't really care that much. Launch of the Screaming Narwhal was the first Telltale game I played since Sam & Max, and I was pleasantly surprised with how much better the voice quality had gotten. Now with episode 2, we're right back to Sam & Max S1E01 quality, if not worse.
I can understand the bandwidth concerns and everything, but this is nigh unplayable, for me. I'm gonna keep playing just because I want to know how the story continues, but the feeling of immersion is gone. Really lame.
The sound quality is awful. The intro with the voodoo-lady was abysmal. I switched headphones because I was positive something was wrong with them. How can this have gotten so incredibly bad since the first episode?
Your post just made me replay the intro three times, and I just managed to get the rather poor audio quality by turning both music & sounds completely down. THAT situation actually allows me to hear it.
When I have sounds turned up fully (as well as voices), the audio sounds perfectly fine & completely bearable in the intro.
I am not completely sure what's going on here, but at least on my system it's some odd mix of sound channels, that somehow work splendidly well when turned up at full (that includes subwoofer). And I doubt I have SRUMM™ installed.. (Sound Repairing Utility for Maniac Mansion™)
I've got the same problem here. The "s" problem in the dialogue is most noticable with Elaine, but I hear it with Guybrush too, most notable with "S" words and "u" words (especially when he says something like "uuuh").
Is this really a compression problem? First I was thinking this problem had something to do with my audio drivers, but everything in Episode 1 sounded fine!
Telltale: Why haven't you noticed this sound problem during the making? Looks like everyone has the same problem, so it hasn't got to do anything with audio drivers or hardware. Maybe you should use a de-esser in the compression process? I use a sort like tool when I record voices for video games.
Is this really a compression problem? First I was thinking this problem had something to do with my audio drivers, but everything in Episode 1 sounded fine!
So even when Episode 1 was lacking in the voice quality, the used half of the size for the voices this time...
Well seems that they want to deliver the games to low-bandwith customers but they are losing me, Im not buying anymore games with this sound quality.
Jeez you're right!!!! This is really bad!!
I'm a sound designer for tv, film and games, and I'm really not accepting this quality if I was making a game.
I just tried to turn down my audio acceleration, but that didn't help, but after you made this reply Laffer, I'm now 100 percent certain it is the compression.
It also explains why the sound FX sound way much better than the voices.
Please Telltale, make a patch or something! Or the ability to download the uncompressed or less compreseed voices file. It's really making the gameplay worse and an insult to the fine voice actors!
I'm a sound designer for tv, film and games, and I'm really not accepting this quality if I was making a game.
I just tried to turn down my audio acceleration, but that didn't help, but after you made this reply Laffer, I'm now 100 percent certain it is the compression.
It also explains why the sound FX sound way much better than the voices.
Please Telltale, make a patch or something! Or the ability to download the uncompressed or less compreseed voices file. It's really making the gameplay worse and an insult to the fine voice actors!
You know... This is not my fight, because the sound quality never bothers me too much
But There is ALWAYS a thread like this after EVERY telltale game to date, complaining about sound quality (well, excluding the Wallace and Gromit games)
Also, you all are missing a HUGE factor here... they did not increase the compression rate, as far as i can tell, its the same as Ep.1...
what they DECREASED was the NUMBER OF DIALOGUE LINES in the episode
Surely everyone noticed how short all the conversations were?
And I have been trying to dig up different Easter eggs and lines I missed (you know, those funny lines from trying random junk that occasionally delivers a gut busting line when you try to freeze the cat in the ice box?)...
Anyways, there are none to be had, They were painfully efficent regarding what lines made it into the game.
So, aside from various state specific conversations triggered by different events, there are no clever easter eggs.
I will make a "did you try?" list over the weekend, but i can already say that it will be slim fare
I too thought Telltale had finally improved the sound quality of their games starting with TOMI episode 1. But now with episode 2, it's seems even worse than it was in Sam and Max season 1. Hopefully the reduced 16mb sound file was a mistake that will get fixed soon!
I only really noticed the sound problems in the Royal Chamber, but I assumed that was caused by the background noises (like the waterfall).
I guess I was just having too much fun actually playing the game to notice minor things like lisping.
You know... This is not my fight, because the sound quality never bothers me too much
But There is ALWAYS a thread like this after EVERY telltale game to date, complaining about sound quality (well, excluding the Wallace and Gromit games)
Also, you all are missing a HUGE factor here... they did not increase the compression rate, as far as i can tell, its the same as Ep.1...
what they DECREASED was the NUMBER OF DIALOGUE LINES in the episode
Surely everyone noticed how short all the conversations were?
And I have been trying to dig up different Easter eggs and lines I missed (you know, those funny lines from trying random junk that occasionally delivers a gut busting line when you try to freeze the cat in the ice box?)...
Anyways, there are none to be had, They were painfully efficent regarding what lines made it into the game.
So, aside from various state specific conversations triggered by different events, there are no clever easter eggs.
I will make a "did you try?" list over the weekend, but i can already say that it will be slim fare
There is plenty of dialogue.. I didn't count the lines, but it felt like it had more than the last game, for sure.
Now I'm sure there exists a lot of easter eggs for your popular "Did you try it"- thread, that you probably didn't catch the first time around!
The main issue here is the compression, which I felt in this game were even more compressed than in episode 1!
Because of this, some questions from the customers arise, like
Is it an error?
Is it bad compression tools?
Is it the Wii limitation issue?
Or is it just deliberate for decreasing the download size?
While I agree that some care more for the sound quality than others, its a fine line between good and bad audio compression. Unfortunately, Telltale's games don't exactly live on the top end of that scale! ...YET
If it's true and they really compressed it more than last time then they really - really - ought to patch the sound quality and a few other bugs up to the level of episode one. Episode's two sound quality least ought to be as good as the FIRST episode.
It still doesn't sound like a compression issue... more like a clipping error introduced during conversion. If the data rate was really low enough to introduce such issues, then the rest of the voices wouldn't sound to pleasant either, not just the S sounds.
Unless there was just some mistake, the review code got the same audio as the release code. As for powering through vs waiting for a patch, that one scene is the only part that particularly stands out so I would definitely suggest powering on. Something about Elaine's voice just doesn't compress well at all I'm afraid, particularly with all of the S's she has in that one dialog.
We don't need to speculate on if it is a compression problem, they have said that it is.
As with these types of problems, if you notice a really bad example, you are more likely to notice all the minor examples of this problem. After I heard Elaine talking, all the other "S" problems came to the front as well. I can understand the voices and I am able to play if I want to, its just bothersome.
For me, its just one more reason not to play the games. The controls are a bit wacky, the voice sound is messed up, the comedy ranges from mediocre to funny. I will probably finish the season since I already paid for it, but I'm a lot less likely to buy any more games in the future.
But that explanation doesn't make any sense, PandaEskimo. If it was just Elaine's voice that didn't compress well, why did it sound better in Curse of Monkey Island? Same voice actor, and the game is twelve years older than Tales.
Uhh, I am the next one who stops to play the game until the sound will be fixed. Its really hard to understand the people especially english is not my native language.
Do TTG not have a quality test to prevent something like this?
Well there might be some other issues, other than too heavy compression, but just looking at the file size there is definatly too much compression. I don't even want to think what the WII version sounds like if PC version has problems. :eek:
I don't get you guys, I never heard any problems with the voice, enjoyed it a lot (yes, Im talkin bout epi2).The royal chamber was fine for me, I replayed and also didn't notice anything bad, do I miss something?
But that explanation doesn't make any sense, PandaEskimo. If it was just Elaine's voice that didn't compress well, why did it sound better in Curse of Monkey Island? Same voice actor, and the game is twelve years older than Tales.
Of course, that's all largely irrelevant, because it isn't just a problem with Elaine.
Comparing it to Curse of Monkey Island is like comparing apples and oranges, because Curse came out on two CD-ROMS and wasn't a downloadable (so they had a lot more disk space for voices. Granted, they had a lot more dialog too) and it's probably a completely different sound engine/codec.
However, you do have a point, except I'd compare it to Launch of the Screaming Narwhal. Elaine sounded perfectly fine there, including the emphasised esses. Remember "Finish the recipe?" Why did Elaine's voice compress well in episode 1, and not in 2? Did they just turn up the compression rate?
I don't get you guys, I never heard any problems with the voice, enjoyed it a lot (yes, Im talkin bout epi2).The royal chamber was fine for me, I replayed and also didn't notice anything bad, do I miss something?
However, you do have a point, except I'd compare it to Launch of the Screaming Narwhal. Elaine sounded perfectly fine there, including the emphasised esses.
No she didn't sound fine, haven't heard Elaine in ep2 yet but there where compression issues in the first one too.
But that explanation doesn't make any sense, PandaEskimo. If it was just Elaine's voice that didn't compress well, why did it sound better in Curse of Monkey Island? Same voice actor, and the game is twelve years older than Tales.
Of course, that's all largely irrelevant, because it isn't just a problem with Elaine.
The compression that TTG uses (compressor, setting, whatever) has a lot of problems with the voice recordings of Elaine. No one is saying that the voice actor is the problem.
No one needs to speculate about what the problem is because we have confirmation that it is the compressor they use. They have also confirmed that they are aware of the problem.
As for the trailer and game differences, my guess would be (and it's just a guess) that during development, many of the assets are uncompressed and that this was when the trailer was created. Later, all of the assets were compressed and the game was released. That's just my guess, I could be wrong.
Clearly they know there is a problem and they know what the problem is, but the person with authority has decided not to fix it.
I don't get you guys, I never heard any problems with the voice, enjoyed it a lot (yes, Im talkin bout epi2).The royal chamber was fine for me, I replayed and also didn't notice anything bad, do I miss something?
I'd compare this problem to seeing Over the Air HDTV audio sync problems and seeing the little ovals during reel switches at the theater. Once you are made aware of the problem, you'll see it everywhere.
The Over the Air HDTV audio sync issue is when the audio and video are slightly off so that mouth movements don't match up to the audio that you are hearing.
The reel switches are little white dots in the upper right hand corner of a movie screen that flash when the end of a reel is approaching so the staff knows to load the next one.
As for the trailer and game differences, my guess would be (and it's just a guess) that during development, many of the assets are uncompressed and that this was when the trailer was created. Later, all of the assets were compressed and the game was released. That's just my guess, I could be wrong.
I don't think that the trailer can be called a part of the game - remember, Guybrush had a hand there, and the surroundings seemed to be different a bit.
Why did Elaine's voice compress well in episode 1, and not in 2? Did they just turn up the compression rate?
Well, for one reason the 1st episode was 100 mb smaller, so i guess they weren't so eager to lilipute everything. And Elaine didn't have that much of a role in Ch 1.
Damn...i hear "s"'s in every second character, and all the rest are somehow "muffled" to me...found two sollutions: either make the sound very low, or vice-versa very high while using a crappy headset.
Comparing it to Curse of Monkey Island is like comparing apples and oranges, because Curse came out on two CD-ROMS and wasn't a downloadable (so they had a lot more disk space for voices. Granted, they had a lot more dialog too) and it's probably a completely different sound engine/codec.
Surely it's not like comparing apples and oranges. It's like comparing a full price PC game with a full price PC game. Why should the method of delivery affect anything? It's not the case with any other full price game on any other digital delivery service.
I actually turned off the voice sound and just read the text in the royal chambers. I couldn't get myself to continue otherwise. I'm not sure how people can't hear it but i really want your ears (or equipment if that's whats doing it).
Comments
Its all about marketing; Quality or quantity.. I guess they went for quantity on this subject. :P And I partly agree that its a customer friendly adjustment to lower the size of the game and people with low bandwith can also download.
Then there is the Wii-port limitation on top of that.
Errr...would you call selling leftover meat to people so that they can digest it easier a customer-friendly adjustment? Yes, it may be cheaper, easier, faster...but it's not customer friendly, if so many consumers are complaining allready. A maketing trick - yes. Maybe even a successfull one. But don't try to convince me it was done for my own benefit )))
I don't know...you think they could have missed the problem and released the game? I doubt it...it's not like it's a minor bug, or something that goes easily undetected. So i guess we have to conclude, the game was released like that delibeately and...well...think it means they are not goint to try and fix it.
Please, please, please TTG, prove me wrong!
ToMI wasn't created to please you, it was created to please ALL MI fans.. And you know what they say; "The weakest link comes first!" (Or something like that..)
But I completely agree with you! The sound quality is unbearable to say the least.
I'm just trying to understand why Telltale took this marketing decision!
And you know what they say: "God works in mysterious ways!" (Or something like that)
Hear hear!
And me.
When the next season comes out I'll keep an eye on the forums, and if people report the same problems I'm afraid I'm not buying anything.
Telltale forums were full of people complaining about controls when Wallace & Gromit came out. Telltale's response was that the cinematics work better and it's moving towards better quality storytelling. Acceptable: Telltale's plan is to move adventure games into the future, and this will require the abandon of such mainstays as point-and-click.
But this file size...well, to be honest I didn't notice a dip in quality in episode 1. I guess I don't have the ear to tell such leaps in bit rates (is that a sound term?). But the fact that this is such a noticeable difference (again, haven't heard it yet) that it's ruining the story presentation is my problem.
There's a fence when it comes to adventure games: there's 'Who cares, adventure games are about the puzzles and story, forget the technology, just point and click.' and on the other side there's 'Adventure games should be as attended to as much as any game, there's a future there.' And at this point I wish a side would be picked. And as to the Wii being the future--why not just release it as a game afterwards? Or pretty much any option that doesn't lower the quality of all versions to service one?
I think we're part of the same club, not really being able to hear what the fuzz was about in Episode 1.
Just hopped in to comfort you with the fact that I was not able to hear any sound artefacts or any hissing in Episode 2, APART from the mentioned Elaine dialogue. People have claimed to not be able to follow the story-line. That makes me wonder what happened with their sound systems or their ears. It's a disturbing read here through the forums, but for some reason, it's really noticable for some, and less or not noticable at all for others.
With Sam & Max, I noticed that the sound wasn't great but didn't really care that much. Launch of the Screaming Narwhal was the first Telltale game I played since Sam & Max, and I was pleasantly surprised with how much better the voice quality had gotten. Now with episode 2, we're right back to Sam & Max S1E01 quality, if not worse.
I can understand the bandwidth concerns and everything, but this is nigh unplayable, for me. I'm gonna keep playing just because I want to know how the story continues, but the feeling of immersion is gone. Really lame.
Your post just made me replay the intro three times, and I just managed to get the rather poor audio quality by turning both music & sounds completely down. THAT situation actually allows me to hear it.
When I have sounds turned up fully (as well as voices), the audio sounds perfectly fine & completely bearable in the intro.
I am not completely sure what's going on here, but at least on my system it's some odd mix of sound channels, that somehow work splendidly well when turned up at full (that includes subwoofer). And I doubt I have SRUMM™ installed.. (Sound Repairing Utility for Maniac Mansion™)
Is this really a compression problem? First I was thinking this problem had something to do with my audio drivers, but everything in Episode 1 sounded fine!
Telltale: Why haven't you noticed this sound problem during the making? Looks like everyone has the same problem, so it hasn't got to do anything with audio drivers or hardware. Maybe you should use a de-esser in the compression process? I use a sort like tool when I record voices for video games.
I really hope there will be a patch for this!
Just look at the file sizes
Episode 1 2_MonkeyIsland101_pc_voice 32mb
Episode 2 2_MonkeyIsland102_pc_voice 16mb
So even when Episode 1 was lacking in the voice quality, the used half of the size for the voices this time...
Well seems that they want to deliver the games to low-bandwith customers but they are losing me, Im not buying anymore games with this sound quality.
Jeez you're right!!!! This is really bad!!
I'm a sound designer for tv, film and games, and I'm really not accepting this quality if I was making a game.
I just tried to turn down my audio acceleration, but that didn't help, but after you made this reply Laffer, I'm now 100 percent certain it is the compression.
It also explains why the sound FX sound way much better than the voices.
Please Telltale, make a patch or something! Or the ability to download the uncompressed or less compreseed voices file. It's really making the gameplay worse and an insult to the fine voice actors!
I totally agree with this!
But There is ALWAYS a thread like this after EVERY telltale game to date, complaining about sound quality (well, excluding the Wallace and Gromit games)
Also, you all are missing a HUGE factor here... they did not increase the compression rate, as far as i can tell, its the same as Ep.1...
what they DECREASED was the NUMBER OF DIALOGUE LINES in the episode
Surely everyone noticed how short all the conversations were?
And I have been trying to dig up different Easter eggs and lines I missed (you know, those funny lines from trying random junk that occasionally delivers a gut busting line when you try to freeze the cat in the ice box?)...
Anyways, there are none to be had, They were painfully efficent regarding what lines made it into the game.
So, aside from various state specific conversations triggered by different events, there are no clever easter eggs.
I will make a "did you try?" list over the weekend, but i can already say that it will be slim fare
I guess I was just having too much fun actually playing the game to notice minor things like lisping.
There is plenty of dialogue.. I didn't count the lines, but it felt like it had more than the last game, for sure.
Now I'm sure there exists a lot of easter eggs for your popular "Did you try it"- thread, that you probably didn't catch the first time around!
The main issue here is the compression, which I felt in this game were even more compressed than in episode 1!
Because of this, some questions from the customers arise, like
Is it an error?
Is it bad compression tools?
Is it the Wii limitation issue?
Or is it just deliberate for decreasing the download size?
While I agree that some care more for the sound quality than others, its a fine line between good and bad audio compression. Unfortunately, Telltale's games don't exactly live on the top end of that scale! ...YET
We don't need to speculate on if it is a compression problem, they have said that it is.
As with these types of problems, if you notice a really bad example, you are more likely to notice all the minor examples of this problem. After I heard Elaine talking, all the other "S" problems came to the front as well. I can understand the voices and I am able to play if I want to, its just bothersome.
For me, its just one more reason not to play the games. The controls are a bit wacky, the voice sound is messed up, the comedy ranges from mediocre to funny. I will probably finish the season since I already paid for it, but I'm a lot less likely to buy any more games in the future.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2e7Q_b4NGtk
Of course, that's all largely irrelevant, because it isn't just a problem with Elaine.
Doesn't really change anything, it still needs to get fixed.
Do TTG not have a quality test to prevent something like this?
Comparing it to Curse of Monkey Island is like comparing apples and oranges, because Curse came out on two CD-ROMS and wasn't a downloadable (so they had a lot more disk space for voices. Granted, they had a lot more dialog too) and it's probably a completely different sound engine/codec.
However, you do have a point, except I'd compare it to Launch of the Screaming Narwhal. Elaine sounded perfectly fine there, including the emphasised esses. Remember "Finish the recipe?" Why did Elaine's voice compress well in episode 1, and not in 2? Did they just turn up the compression rate?
Just be happy that you can't hear any problems.
No she didn't sound fine, haven't heard Elaine in ep2 yet but there where compression issues in the first one too.
The compression that TTG uses (compressor, setting, whatever) has a lot of problems with the voice recordings of Elaine. No one is saying that the voice actor is the problem.
No one needs to speculate about what the problem is because we have confirmation that it is the compressor they use. They have also confirmed that they are aware of the problem.
As for the trailer and game differences, my guess would be (and it's just a guess) that during development, many of the assets are uncompressed and that this was when the trailer was created. Later, all of the assets were compressed and the game was released. That's just my guess, I could be wrong.
Clearly they know there is a problem and they know what the problem is, but the person with authority has decided not to fix it.
I'd compare this problem to seeing Over the Air HDTV audio sync problems and seeing the little ovals during reel switches at the theater. Once you are made aware of the problem, you'll see it everywhere.
The Over the Air HDTV audio sync issue is when the audio and video are slightly off so that mouth movements don't match up to the audio that you are hearing.
The reel switches are little white dots in the upper right hand corner of a movie screen that flash when the end of a reel is approaching so the staff knows to load the next one.
If you don't notice any problems be happy!!!
Well, for one reason the 1st episode was 100 mb smaller, so i guess they weren't so eager to lilipute everything. And Elaine didn't have that much of a role in Ch 1.
Damn...i hear "s"'s in every second character, and all the rest are somehow "muffled" to me...found two sollutions: either make the sound very low, or vice-versa very high while using a crappy headset.
This is an episode i will NEVER wan't to re-play.
Surely it's not like comparing apples and oranges. It's like comparing a full price PC game with a full price PC game. Why should the method of delivery affect anything? It's not the case with any other full price game on any other digital delivery service.