Maybe you could go to the same parties? They are mostly in the same basement.
Seriously, take a step back and realize that you don't like s3 only because you either has some emotional nostalgic problems or a compulsion to go against the masses. It has nothing to do with the quality of the episodes.
S3 is graphicly superior, tons easier to navigate, doesn't run on the same massproduct concept (get 3 of those, complete 3 trials every damn episode) that the last two seasons did and is actually very varied and inventive in the storyline and how to solve puzzles. Also, it is more directed towards an older audience where as s1-2 practicly was just cartoonish violence at best and had that disturbing sesamy street mix of talk for grown ups and physical stuff for children.
Calm down? It's just his opinion. Jeez. And it's not even like I totally agree with him.
Beyond the Alley of the Dolls is a sucker punch on par with The Trial and Execution of Guybrush Threepwood. And I mean that in the best way possible. Really, when you think about it, the endings of both left us with a feeling of loss for one of our most beloved characters, though in incredibly different ways. Plus both of them featured the unexpected return of "Unholy this!", but that's something else entirely.
I can only hope that The City That Dares Not Sleep will likewise be epic on par with Rise of the Pirate God.
Seriously, take a step back and realize that you don't like s3 only because
"You actually agree with the only valid opinion on the season(Mine, of course), because..."
you either has some emotional nostalgic problems
I don't even know what this means.
or a compulsion to go against the masses.
I don't know where this even comes from. I obviously enjoyed episode 4. Is there some secret backlash against the fourth episode that I'm unaware of that could lead someone to assume that I'd changed the tide? I haven't seen any such thing, in fact, I've seen at least one other appraisal that sees Episode 4 as a major turnaround and a few more that say it's the best of the season.
It has nothing to do with the quality of the episodes.
It has to do with the fact that I have gotten myself bored several times while playing episodes 1, 2, and 3. I really was left not wanting to play because I kept knowing exactly what to do and why after a maximum of one step of investigation, it was about as dull as a "puzzle" game can be. Episode 4 was a marvelous return to form in regards to the actual gameplay, and I don't see how enjoying the fourth episode to a very great degree fits into your theory of false opinions forged to craft an alter-ego that doesn't like things. Do people enjoy pretending not to like things? I wasn't aware that this was a common hobby.
S3 is graphicly superior, tons easier to navigate, doesn't run on the same massproduct concept (get 3 of those, complete 3 trials every damn episode) that the last two seasons did and is actually very varied and inventive in the storyline and how to solve puzzles. Also, it is more directed towards an older audience where as s1-2 practicly was just cartoonish violence at best and had that disturbing sesamy street mix of talk for grown ups and physical stuff for children.
1. Graphics are a presentation thing, they are FAR behind puzzles in terms of importance after you get to the point that all characters and goals are represented in such a way that you can tell what every object on the screen is. If a man enjoys Chess more than he enjoys CandyLand, a CandyLand board made from the finest materials by the greatest artisans will not change the fact that CandyLand is a more shallow and less fun game than Chess.
2. I actually have found this season somewhat more difficult to navigate. The post-Direct Control games have a fondness for jump-cutting to awkward camera angles and wobbling the camera just enough to be a bit disorienting.
3. Use Future Vision; Follow Instructions, before Episode 4 this was the way many of the puzzles worked. A lot of the time, in Season Three, you'll solve puzzles in very much the same one-step way, over and over again.
4. I don't understand how you can think that either game is aimed any differently than the others?
This episode completely freaked me out, gave me much glee with the gags, surprised me to no end, make me quiver, almost made me cry.
And just the entire second half blew my mind. I didn't think TellTale was going to be all in our faces with the awesomeness presented in 304. I have never actually HEARD Sam laugh before in-game. The transition from the previous episodes to this one was just phenomenal.
My senior year of high school will not be bearable until 305 is released.
I couldn't use Futurevision on the Statue of Liberty at any point for a Planet of the Apes reference. It was the first thing I tried when I reached the docks, and I kept trying right up until the end, ; I fully expected to see the head on the ground, and Sam screaming, "You really finally did it! Damn you all to hell!", lol
While I don't agree with Rather Dashing, even you cannot dismiss in the puzzle department Season 3 has been pretty lacking so far (see 301 and ESPECIALLY 303).
And if that is your main interest, I can surely see why one would be majorly dissapointed...
It's really hard now to say something that hasn't been said before.. But I really feel for some reason that I have a bigger relationship with TTG now. I mean, they're capable of releasing such blockbusters as this, I was very happy with my SBCG4AP DVD, they have contests to win $200 (!!!), and I can really think that they will pin down BTTF and JP (no sexual reference intended).
I loved, loved, loved this episode. Max was AMAZING in the ending. He looked almost holy, radiating all that light...it felt ridiculously, intensely EPIC for a Sam & Max game.
Now I just gotta wonder how the hell Telltale plans to top that one. I mean, it feels like everything wrapped up pretty nicely, except for the whole
Max becoming an abomination
thing in the end. It would have made a perfect season finale. What else do they have planned?
The ending would have been a nice place for some kind of heartwarming friendship moment between the two of them. I would have liked it if they'd honed in on the geniune loyalty and heroism that was shown during those finally moments. Sam was so worried about Max, and Max turned into such a big damn hero to save him...but I guess this franchise isn't exactly known for it's drama, so whatever. Still, fans are ready to see that side of the characters; things don't always have to be whacky.
Wow, I sound like I'm taking things a bit too seriously, don't I?
To be honest, I didn't think much of the first two acts - I thought that they fell a bit flat compared to the previous episodes, and completely underused their premise (especially with a few frustrating puzzles - not so much difficult, just...unintuitive).
Having said that, the final act was awesome. It was great to finally have a challenging, multi-stage boss battle, and...well, what more can I say?
So...I wouldn't call it the best episode ever, since the first two acts just didn't click with me (they had their moments, but characters like Bluster Blaster, Harry and Superball completely overstayed their welcome, even with only a few lines each), but that's just me.
*edit* Admittedly, I just came back from watching Inception, so BtAotD is being unfairly compared to that. The episode was probably a lot better than I'm saying it is.
I'm just hoping Telltale knows what they're doing with 305. Beyond the Alley of the Doll worked a lot like a final episode--seeing all the characters again (minus the 302 cast), using all the toys again (minus Can O'Nuts), battling a Puppet Master on a large building, finding out that "The power was within you," the whole time. I'm REALLY hoping we get to delve into at least one person's dreams, or at least be able to control Max again.
301, 302, and 303 are all clumped together at the very bottom of my list of Sam and Max episodes. They're all style, no substance, and they're just plain boring. The first one seemed the best because the shiny new game smell and the appeal of the new visuals, music style, etc would hit you harder and carry the weak game a bit farther than it can in later installments.
304, on the other hand, is practically on the opposite side of the spectrum. It's up there as a peer of episode 204: Chariots of the Dogs. They go to the same parties and one doesn't absolutely embarrass the other and it's totally great.
This. The only thing that disappointed me in this episode was of my own fault:
After getting rid of that tentacle monster by the cloning machine, I instantly thought of using Bosco's letter as DNA for it. I got so excited when the machine accepted it that I figured that Bosco would be making a guest appearance. I was so bummed out when I figured out it was actually part of the equation to summon Momma Bosco.:(
Loved the episode, fantastic story and good variety of puzzles be it inventory ones or psychic powers. The final battle did feel like more of a season final battle so it'll be interesting to see where we go from here in the next episode.
301, 302, and 303 are all clumped together at the very bottom of my list of Sam and Max episodes. They're all style, no substance, and they're just plain boring. The first one seemed the best because the shiny new game smell and the appeal of the new visuals, music style, etc would hit you harder and carry the weak game a bit farther than it can in later installments.
304, on the other hand, is practically on the opposite side of the spectrum. It's up there as a peer of episode 204: Chariots of the Dogs. They go to the same parties and one doesn't absolutely embarrass the other and it's totally great.
It seams like I never talk much around here... and when i do, its only to bitch about something... But Yeah, that's my one gripe about the episode... the unintuitive puzzles that had solutions with nothing pointing toward it as the solution
I hate those sort of puzzles where you have to wander around aimlessly trying random crap till you find out what you are supposed to do (and telltale managed to steer away from those, till now)... At least in all the previous episodes/seasons the puzzles all had clear jumps in the logic, you are given 80% of the solution (just enough to get you thinking on the next-to-the-right track, without giving the outright solution) and have to figure how to solve it on your own... This is a fun mechanism, its satisfying and challenging at the same time... So why did they screw it up here?
In Episode 4 you are just given a bunch of random things that you have to try all over the place at multiple points in the game and hope that item/power/background object will do something NOW as opposed to BEFORE you talked to or read this persons mind
My biggest hang ups this episode all revolved around that failure... to be specific, they were...
#1 Knowing that I had to talk to stinky a second time after reading her mind, and mind read her a SECOND time after talking to her... I was stuck in that damn diner for over an hour, imagine how pissed I was when I found that her thoughts change depending on what you say to her!
#2 I could not see Paiperwaite's head in the door after he locked it unless I was in max mode, so that one was next to impossible for me... It wasn't until I took a leap of faith and flipped into max mode that I saw the little bit of his head in the window
#3 I could not make heads or tails of the stinky interrogation scene, Maybe I missed something? (but I probably didn't) it was over in 2 seconds and I feel gypped. like I missed a lot of good dialogue just cause I selected the right option on the first try (when I was not even aware that there already was a "right answer")
#4 The cathonic destroyer... ok this one was Fucked up 4 ways to sunday, (pardon my language, but I feel its appropriate here) where to even begin?! First, the fact that after an arcane conversation, suddenly an obscure gag which has been in 2 episodes suddenly becomes the item you need to select in order to find it... there is nothing whatsoever indicating that! I was the most frustrated I have ever been during a Sam and Max game, walking around the game looking for the 4 clues on the page in the world... Then you are thrown off track thinking you need something else to help figure out the dials when you just need to mess around with them till you figure out what they mean... (and even though they pull up Max mode right after you use the machine, nothing stated that you need to use the toys to see the changes to Sam after each time you use the machine)... In short I was Confused, mislead, cussing, and swearing the whole way through this one
#5 Talking to charlie at the end... for some reason the game did not clearly convey that you could do this... i selected him once and nothing happened, TURNS OUT you have to select him AFTER you try to change the music on the piano and THEN you can speak to him (which is already obscurely hidden behind Sams head)... So imagine how pissed off i was when i found you can change the music and talk to charlie... i felt like an idiot, even though i was just a victim of bad puzzle design
If telltale managed to do one thing its this... I was reminded of playing the classic adventure games of yore... This is one of those episodes that will be really fun to replay in a few years, after all the memories of being pissed off at it are gone
And I am not complaining because I was stumped... DO NOT get the wrong meaning from my post, I have been stumped at least one or two good times in every previous Telltale title... No, I am complaining about the lack of direction given to the players... most of the other episodes had subconscious clues aimed at giving the player a mental bridge between the problem and the solution... not here... Here they changed the definition of "hard puzzle" from the intelligence it takes to solve... to how "obscure" the solution is to the actual problem
And if it was just a one time deal i could get over it... but each of the 3 acts is plagued by this, and so what could have been an epic episode is all but ruined by bad puzzle design and bad puzzle goal communication... I cant even rate this episode cause the crap puzzles make me want to give it a 3/10, but the story and Epicness of it make me want to go 9/10
I can stand it if its only a one episode detour... but the damn finale had better go back to the previous format and leave the poorly conveyed puzzles back in the 90's where they belong
*Long post complaining about obscure puzzle solutions*
That's quite interesting; a lot of the people on these forums feel the exact opposite about puzzles. They feel that the puzzle solutions need to be less logic and more strange.
I don't feel swayed to either way, but I still feel this exchange is interesting; those that like simpler, more logical puzzles will come out to complain when the puzzles start to be stranger, and those that like the stranger puzzles will come out to complain when the puzzles are simpler, and more logical.
Meh, I'm not the type that sees either type as superior... if it was all simple I would be turned off as well.
I just like a balance of puzzles... and this episode relied too heavily on the obscure, I'm sure quite a few feel that way.
As a matter of fact, the bigger the sway in difficulty from one puzzle to the next, the better i feel after the game is over... (make me smile and laugh with a simple puzzle, then make me growl with rage when I figure out a stumper)
Hi Guys,
I thought the episode was totally awsome. I love the plot twist, and how they had you guessing who might be the villian until the end. This is my all time favorite episode of Sam and Max. I am so looking forward to episode 5. I also love all the funny lines in the game.
Meh, I'm not the type that sees either type as superior... if it was all simple I would be turned off as well.
I just like a balance of puzzles... and this episode relied too heavily on the obscure, I'm sure quite a few feel that way.
As a matter of fact, the bigger the sway in difficulty from one puzzle to the next, the better i feel after the game is over... (make me smile and laugh with a simple puzzle, then make me growl with rage when I figure out a stumper)
Many people think that the puzzles in 301, 302, and 303 had too many simple puzzles, and think that 304 is much better than those in that respect.
So you like puzzles that have easy solutions right next to hard ones? Interesting way of thinking. Sadly for you, many consider that bad design.
EDIT: Oh, and I forgot to mention, I rather enjoyed this episode.
You guys complain way too much. I think TTG did an awsome job and I give all 4 episodes a 10/10. I also give all 5 episodes of Tale of Monkey Island a 10/10. You guys need to get into the story of the game. It isn't just about puzzles and such, it is also about the story and what is happening in the story. Besides I think the puzzles were great and they had me stumped for a while before i figured them out. Even if you figure out what to do in the game right away, it is fun to try all of Max's other toys to see things you would miss otherwise, like some of the funny things the characters would say that would have you laughing. I can't begin to count how many times I was laughing so hard from trying out all of Max's toys before solving any puzzles.
*Long post complaining about obscure puzzle solutions*
I'm sorry but I don't think your arguments support your contention that the puzzles were obscure. After three episodes with the Toys of Power, it needs to be "stated" that they're important in solving puzzles? You need "direction" before messing around with dials to see how different settings change things? It is not at all "random" that you need to mind-read someone to get their thoughts on something you just talked to them about.
This. The only thing that disappointed me in this episode was of my own fault:
After getting rid of that tentacle monster by the cloning machine, I instantly thought of using Bosco's letter as DNA for it. I got so excited when the machine accepted it that I figured that Bosco would be making a guest appearance. I was so bummed out when I figured out it was actually part of the equation to summon Momma Bosco.:(
Me to that was the first thing that came to my mind
Actually, I see what Gibbey is getting at, in a way. But I think the rehash is coincidential at best - the puzzle itself is different enough, or at least seems different enough.
It's hard for me to believe that the puzzles were so bad when I'm a very atypical adventure gamer- I'm always stumped by the puzzles, no matter the difficulty, I can never seem to think in the right mindframe for them. Yet I managed to breeze through this episode rather logically, everything just seemed to connect and make sense. The only thing I didn't get was the destruction of the toychest rather than charlie ho-tep, and even then I eventually had Yog Soggoth himself call out 'toychest' to remind me.
I don't think I've laughed out loud that many times in a single episode since Abe Lincoln Must Die. Not minor chuckles, either... full-on belly laughs. What is with you guys and constantly making the fourth episode the most awesome?
What is with you guys and constantly making the fourth episode the most awesome?
I also noticed that in each season, the episode which corresponds to the season number (101, 202, 303) seems to be the weakest for a lot of people (including me).
So basicaly what I'm getting at is... what will happen with 404 !?
I also noticed that in each season, the episode which corresponds to the season number (101, 202, 303) seems to be the weakest for a lot of people (including me).
So basicaly what I'm getting at is... what will happen with 404 !?
Like many people posting here, I enjoyed the setup for 305. However, I'm a little worried that it looks like we're going to have yet another episode essentially without Max.
It seams like I never talk much around here... and when i do, its only to bitch about something... But Yeah, that's my one gripe about the episode... the unintuitive puzzles that had solutions with nothing pointing toward it as the solution
I hate those sort of puzzles where you have to wander around aimlessly trying random crap till you find out what you are supposed to do (and telltale managed to steer away from those, till now)... At least in all the previous episodes/seasons the puzzles all had clear jumps in the logic, you are given 80% of the solution (just enough to get you thinking on the next-to-the-right track, without giving the outright solution) and have to figure how to solve it on your own... This is a fun mechanism, its satisfying and challenging at the same time... So why did they screw it up here?
In Episode 4 you are just given a bunch of random things that you have to try all over the place at multiple points in the game and hope that item/power/background object will do something NOW as opposed to BEFORE you talked to or read this persons mind
My biggest hang ups this episode all revolved around that failure... to be specific, they were...
Okay, all of these puzzles made sense. They were DIFFICULT, in that you had to actually think about it and experiment a bit rather than having a giant, glowing, neon arrow pointing to the solution or having to take one or two simple steps before the solution was stupidly clear. Even in the latter case, those steps are generally the same exact ones you'd been programmed to take for tons of far-too-easy puzzles for the rest of the season, which makes the game practically play itself. Unlike Episode 304, the rest of Season Three has been anything but engaging. These puzzles aren't even illogical either, and the logic behind them is actually really clear.
#1 Knowing that I had to talk to stinky a second time after reading her mind, and mind read her a SECOND time after talking to her... I was stuck in that damn diner for over an hour, imagine how pissed I was when I found that her thoughts change depending on what you say to her!
This actually makes a TON of sense.
Why would she be thinking about escaping through the secret tunnel after you'd clearly demonstrated that the secret tunnel DOES NOT WORK? That would be an absolutely idiotic thought to still have, just like the thought that this puzzle was at all obscure.
Granted, I didn't think of it for awhile either, but when it clicked, it felt completely logical and I was very satisfied with the solution. You have to MAKE her
think of the next plan by showing that the first one wouldn't work
. It was a GREAT puzzle!
#2 I could not see Paiperwaite's head in the door after he locked it unless I was in max mode, so that one was next to impossible for me... It wasn't until I took a leap of faith and flipped into max mode that I saw the little bit of his head in the window
Huh, I saw it in the cinematic? What level were your graphics set to? Maybe you hit a glitch? It was very obvious to me before switching to Max Mode(and that's when I made the logical conclusion to use it), so I think this is in the purview of game glitches, and I'm sorry that ruined that puzzle for you.
#3 I could not make heads or tails of the stinky interrogation scene, Maybe I missed something? (but I probably didn't) it was over in 2 seconds and I feel gypped. like I missed a lot of good dialogue just cause I selected the right option on the first try (when I was not even aware that there already was a "right answer")
I think that the scene just makes your first two dialog choices the "right ones", because they don't seem to affect much of what goes on. It was just a throwback to the last episode, not really a puzzle. I actually wonder if it was a scrapped puzzle or something, it seems to have a lot of focus that is kind of wasted. Just as a check, I only chose
Noir
dialog options.
#4 The cathonic destroyer...
That's Cthonic. Cthonic, as in being related to Cthulu. Does NOBODY read anymore? Is that why people hate thinking in puzzle games?
ok this one was Fucked up 4 ways to sunday, (pardon my language, but I feel its appropriate here) where to even begin?! First, the fact that after an arcane conversation, suddenly an obscure gag which has been in 2 episodes suddenly becomes the item you need to select in order to find it... there is nothing whatsoever indicating that! I was the most frustrated I have ever been during a Sam and Max game, walking around the game looking for the 4 clues on the page in the world...
For one thing, that object was the VERY FIRST THING that I clicked after
resurrecting Mama Bosco
. Secondly, it's actually
a dialog option, Mama Bosco sends you right to the thing
!
Then you are thrown off track thinking you need something else to help figure out the dials when you just need to mess around with them till you figure out what they mean... (and even though they pull up Max mode right after you use the machine, nothing stated that you need to use the toys to see the changes to Sam after each time you use the machine)... In short I was Confused, mislead, cussing, and swearing the whole way through this one
The puzzle actually was nice and easy in some respects, because there was only
a few dials with few numbers each, and the puzzle didn't require a certain COMBINATION(as in, you could solve each dial individually), and the game would mark FOR you the correct dial
! If you got confused enough, though, if you were absolutely incompetent and incapable of thinking for more than five seconds, you could
walk a couple feet to the left and ask Mama Bosco, would would say outright that each of the dials represents different spheres, making it obvious that you just need to set each one right
. And if you know that ONE
controls eotions
, and ANOTHER
controls thought
, then it's STUPIDLY OBVIOUS that
you can't tell what Sam saw unless you read his mind
!
#5 Talking to charlie at the end... for some reason the game did not clearly convey that you could do this... i selected him once and nothing happened, TURNS OUT you have to select him AFTER you try to change the music on the piano and THEN you can speak to him (which is already obscurely hidden behind Sams head)... So imagine how pissed off i was when i found you can change the music and talk to charlie... i felt like an idiot, even though i was just a victim of bad puzzle design
I talked to
Charlie
before
changing the music
, so I don't know what you're talking about. Maybe you were victim to the somewhat annoyingly bobbing camera in that scene? Or perhaps you were again glitched, like in one of the previous puzzles?
If telltale managed to do one thing its this... I was reminded of playing the classic adventure games of yore... This is one of those episodes that will be really fun to replay in a few years, after all the memories of being pissed off at it are gone
So...it did things right for once in the Season. Good for them! That is, no, I'm not going to argue that there is nowhere for the genre to grow and adapt(Portal, for instance, makes an EXCELLENT case for the evolution of Story-based puzzle games), but the BASIC IDEA and the BASIC FEELING of playing a puzzle game, if done right, should be more or less the same intellectually.
And I am not complaining because I was stumped... DO NOT get the wrong meaning from my post, I have been stumped at least one or two good times in every previous Telltale title... No, I am complaining about the lack of direction given to the players... most of the other episodes had subconscious clues aimed at giving the player a mental bridge between the problem and the solution... not here... Here they changed the definition of "hard puzzle" from the intelligence it takes to solve... to how "obscure" the solution is to the actual problem
The amount of direction you require is insane. You're asking for what amounts to a GPS-guided adventure game. Every single puzzle in 304 could be solved with either common sense or the clues and hooks that were built into the environment in places that you'd expect to find them.
And if it was just a one time deal i could get over it... but each of the 3 acts is plagued by this, and so what could have been an epic episode is all but ruined by bad puzzle design and bad puzzle goal communication... I cant even rate this episode cause the crap puzzles make me want to give it a 3/10, but the story and Epicness of it make me want to go 9/10
I can stand it if its only a one episode detour... but the damn finale had better go back to the previous format and leave the poorly conveyed puzzles back in the 90's where they belong
Or maybe you should leave the attitude that you should be playing Telltale games back in March 2010, where it belongs.
You guys complain way too much. I think TTG did an awsome job and I give all 4 episodes a 10/10. I also give all 5 episodes of Tale of Monkey Island a 10/10. You guys need to get into the story of the game. It isn't just about puzzles and such, it is also about the story and what is happening in the story. Besides I think the puzzles were great and they had me stumped for a while before i figured them out. Even if you figure out what to do in the game right away, it is fun to try all of Max's other toys to see things you would miss otherwise, like some of the funny things the characters would say that would have you laughing. I can't begin to count how many times I was laughing so hard from trying out all of Max's toys before solving any puzzles.
It must be horrible being you. When everything has to be perfect, when nothing can have faults, then nothing is ever truly exceptional. I don't generally like putting numbers on things, because a number can't sum up what a thing is, and certainly if you looked at things at all critically, you'd see that there are differences between things and that those differences create different reactions within you. Now, I'm not saying you'd end up coming to the same conclusions as I did if you thought about it, just that you'd find that SOMETHING causes SOME deviation in how much you like an episode.
Nothing is "just about the story". Not even books. A book can have an excellent story, but written in a style that's so wooden and boring that actually going about and reading it is dull. A film can have terrible camera angles, poor acting, really poor use of effects, a bad art style, poor cinematography, bad editing, etc that make a great story come off terribly. A puzzle game comes out and changes the focus, now it's a game that has to be played. If getting TO the story is completely dull because it pretends that minor chores meant to unlock the next quip are, in fact, PUZZLES, the game itself is boring to play and badly designed, no matter WHAT else is going on, because that's the VERY BASIC DESIGN OF THE GAME, that's the very DEFINITION of your interaction with the world, and it's what separates THIS medium from others. You don't write a book like a screenplay or vice-versa, you don't make a game like a movie and then put in the game as an afterthought that should keep pace moving along like a film. The very IDEA that the GAME in a GAME does not matter is not only baffling, it's simply WRONG.
Comments
Calm down? It's just his opinion. Jeez. And it's not even like I totally agree with him.
I can only hope that The City That Dares Not Sleep will likewise be epic on par with Rise of the Pirate God.
I don't even know what this means.
I don't know where this even comes from. I obviously enjoyed episode 4. Is there some secret backlash against the fourth episode that I'm unaware of that could lead someone to assume that I'd changed the tide? I haven't seen any such thing, in fact, I've seen at least one other appraisal that sees Episode 4 as a major turnaround and a few more that say it's the best of the season.
It has to do with the fact that I have gotten myself bored several times while playing episodes 1, 2, and 3. I really was left not wanting to play because I kept knowing exactly what to do and why after a maximum of one step of investigation, it was about as dull as a "puzzle" game can be. Episode 4 was a marvelous return to form in regards to the actual gameplay, and I don't see how enjoying the fourth episode to a very great degree fits into your theory of false opinions forged to craft an alter-ego that doesn't like things. Do people enjoy pretending not to like things? I wasn't aware that this was a common hobby.
1. Graphics are a presentation thing, they are FAR behind puzzles in terms of importance after you get to the point that all characters and goals are represented in such a way that you can tell what every object on the screen is. If a man enjoys Chess more than he enjoys CandyLand, a CandyLand board made from the finest materials by the greatest artisans will not change the fact that CandyLand is a more shallow and less fun game than Chess.
2. I actually have found this season somewhat more difficult to navigate. The post-Direct Control games have a fondness for jump-cutting to awkward camera angles and wobbling the camera just enough to be a bit disorienting.
3. Use Future Vision; Follow Instructions, before Episode 4 this was the way many of the puzzles worked. A lot of the time, in Season Three, you'll solve puzzles in very much the same one-step way, over and over again.
4. I don't understand how you can think that either game is aimed any differently than the others?
And just the entire second half blew my mind. I didn't think TellTale was going to be all in our faces with the awesomeness presented in 304. I have never actually HEARD Sam laugh before in-game. The transition from the previous episodes to this one was just phenomenal.
My senior year of high school will not be bearable until 305 is released.
And if that is your main interest, I can surely see why one would be majorly dissapointed...
I love you Telltale. Expect more of my money soon
Now I just gotta wonder how the hell Telltale plans to top that one. I mean, it feels like everything wrapped up pretty nicely, except for the whole
The ending would have been a nice place for some kind of heartwarming friendship moment between the two of them. I would have liked it if they'd honed in on the geniune loyalty and heroism that was shown during those finally moments. Sam was so worried about Max, and Max turned into such a big damn hero to save him...but I guess this franchise isn't exactly known for it's drama, so whatever. Still, fans are ready to see that side of the characters; things don't always have to be whacky.
Wow, I sound like I'm taking things a bit too seriously, don't I?
Having said that, the final act was awesome. It was great to finally have a challenging, multi-stage boss battle, and...well, what more can I say?
So...I wouldn't call it the best episode ever, since the first two acts just didn't click with me (they had their moments, but characters like Bluster Blaster, Harry and Superball completely overstayed their welcome, even with only a few lines each), but that's just me.
*edit* Admittedly, I just came back from watching Inception, so BtAotD is being unfairly compared to that. The episode was probably a lot better than I'm saying it is.
This. The only thing that disappointed me in this episode was of my own fault:
Yeah, loved that myself. Think the full quote was "Shaka - the mind blown".
I agree wholeheartedly.
I hate those sort of puzzles where you have to wander around aimlessly trying random crap till you find out what you are supposed to do (and telltale managed to steer away from those, till now)... At least in all the previous episodes/seasons the puzzles all had clear jumps in the logic, you are given 80% of the solution (just enough to get you thinking on the next-to-the-right track, without giving the outright solution) and have to figure how to solve it on your own... This is a fun mechanism, its satisfying and challenging at the same time... So why did they screw it up here?
In Episode 4 you are just given a bunch of random things that you have to try all over the place at multiple points in the game and hope that item/power/background object will do something NOW as opposed to BEFORE you talked to or read this persons mind
My biggest hang ups this episode all revolved around that failure... to be specific, they were...
#2 I could not see Paiperwaite's head in the door after he locked it unless I was in max mode, so that one was next to impossible for me... It wasn't until I took a leap of faith and flipped into max mode that I saw the little bit of his head in the window
#3 I could not make heads or tails of the stinky interrogation scene, Maybe I missed something? (but I probably didn't) it was over in 2 seconds and I feel gypped. like I missed a lot of good dialogue just cause I selected the right option on the first try (when I was not even aware that there already was a "right answer")
#4 The cathonic destroyer... ok this one was Fucked up 4 ways to sunday, (pardon my language, but I feel its appropriate here) where to even begin?! First, the fact that after an arcane conversation, suddenly an obscure gag which has been in 2 episodes suddenly becomes the item you need to select in order to find it... there is nothing whatsoever indicating that! I was the most frustrated I have ever been during a Sam and Max game, walking around the game looking for the 4 clues on the page in the world... Then you are thrown off track thinking you need something else to help figure out the dials when you just need to mess around with them till you figure out what they mean... (and even though they pull up Max mode right after you use the machine, nothing stated that you need to use the toys to see the changes to Sam after each time you use the machine)... In short I was Confused, mislead, cussing, and swearing the whole way through this one
#5 Talking to charlie at the end... for some reason the game did not clearly convey that you could do this... i selected him once and nothing happened, TURNS OUT you have to select him AFTER you try to change the music on the piano and THEN you can speak to him (which is already obscurely hidden behind Sams head)... So imagine how pissed off i was when i found you can change the music and talk to charlie... i felt like an idiot, even though i was just a victim of bad puzzle design
If telltale managed to do one thing its this... I was reminded of playing the classic adventure games of yore... This is one of those episodes that will be really fun to replay in a few years, after all the memories of being pissed off at it are gone
And I am not complaining because I was stumped... DO NOT get the wrong meaning from my post, I have been stumped at least one or two good times in every previous Telltale title... No, I am complaining about the lack of direction given to the players... most of the other episodes had subconscious clues aimed at giving the player a mental bridge between the problem and the solution... not here... Here they changed the definition of "hard puzzle" from the intelligence it takes to solve... to how "obscure" the solution is to the actual problem
And if it was just a one time deal i could get over it... but each of the 3 acts is plagued by this, and so what could have been an epic episode is all but ruined by bad puzzle design and bad puzzle goal communication... I cant even rate this episode cause the crap puzzles make me want to give it a 3/10, but the story and Epicness of it make me want to go 9/10
I can stand it if its only a one episode detour... but the damn finale had better go back to the previous format and leave the poorly conveyed puzzles back in the 90's where they belong
That's quite interesting; a lot of the people on these forums feel the exact opposite about puzzles. They feel that the puzzle solutions need to be less logic and more strange.
I don't feel swayed to either way, but I still feel this exchange is interesting; those that like simpler, more logical puzzles will come out to complain when the puzzles start to be stranger, and those that like the stranger puzzles will come out to complain when the puzzles are simpler, and more logical.
I just like a balance of puzzles... and this episode relied too heavily on the obscure, I'm sure quite a few feel that way.
As a matter of fact, the bigger the sway in difficulty from one puzzle to the next, the better i feel after the game is over... (make me smile and laugh with a simple puzzle, then make me growl with rage when I figure out a stumper)
I thought the episode was totally awsome. I love the plot twist, and how they had you guessing who might be the villian until the end. This is my all time favorite episode of Sam and Max. I am so looking forward to episode 5. I also love all the funny lines in the game.
Many people think that the puzzles in 301, 302, and 303 had too many simple puzzles, and think that 304 is much better than those in that respect.
So you like puzzles that have easy solutions right next to hard ones? Interesting way of thinking. Sadly for you, many consider that bad design.
EDIT: Oh, and I forgot to mention, I rather enjoyed this episode.
I'm sorry but I don't think your arguments support your contention that the puzzles were obscure. After three episodes with the Toys of Power, it needs to be "stated" that they're important in solving puzzles? You need "direction" before messing around with dials to see how different settings change things? It is not at all "random" that you need to mind-read someone to get their thoughts on something you just talked to them about.
Me to that was the first thing that came to my mind
I don't see how it was at all similar.
It is just you.
301 was far too easy (future vision!) and 303 was just pathetic.
Also to #5 I was able to talk immediately to Charlie after selecting him as Sam, so I am not sure what went wrong with you there...
Also,
I also noticed that in each season, the episode which corresponds to the season number (101, 202, 303) seems to be the weakest for a lot of people (including me).
So basicaly what I'm getting at is... what will happen with 404 !?
Obviously episode 404 will not exist. It's a 404.
Attack me!!
This actually makes a TON of sense.
Huh, I saw it in the cinematic? What level were your graphics set to? Maybe you hit a glitch? It was very obvious to me before switching to Max Mode(and that's when I made the logical conclusion to use it), so I think this is in the purview of game glitches, and I'm sorry that ruined that puzzle for you.
I think that the scene just makes your first two dialog choices the "right ones", because they don't seem to affect much of what goes on. It was just a throwback to the last episode, not really a puzzle. I actually wonder if it was a scrapped puzzle or something, it seems to have a lot of focus that is kind of wasted. Just as a check, I only chose
That's Cthonic. Cthonic, as in being related to Cthulu. Does NOBODY read anymore? Is that why people hate thinking in puzzle games?
For one thing, that object was the VERY FIRST THING that I clicked after
The puzzle actually was nice and easy in some respects, because there was only
So...it did things right for once in the Season. Good for them! That is, no, I'm not going to argue that there is nowhere for the genre to grow and adapt(Portal, for instance, makes an EXCELLENT case for the evolution of Story-based puzzle games), but the BASIC IDEA and the BASIC FEELING of playing a puzzle game, if done right, should be more or less the same intellectually.
The amount of direction you require is insane. You're asking for what amounts to a GPS-guided adventure game. Every single puzzle in 304 could be solved with either common sense or the clues and hooks that were built into the environment in places that you'd expect to find them.
Or maybe you should leave the attitude that you should be playing Telltale games back in March 2010, where it belongs.
It must be horrible being you. When everything has to be perfect, when nothing can have faults, then nothing is ever truly exceptional. I don't generally like putting numbers on things, because a number can't sum up what a thing is, and certainly if you looked at things at all critically, you'd see that there are differences between things and that those differences create different reactions within you. Now, I'm not saying you'd end up coming to the same conclusions as I did if you thought about it, just that you'd find that SOMETHING causes SOME deviation in how much you like an episode.
Nothing is "just about the story". Not even books. A book can have an excellent story, but written in a style that's so wooden and boring that actually going about and reading it is dull. A film can have terrible camera angles, poor acting, really poor use of effects, a bad art style, poor cinematography, bad editing, etc that make a great story come off terribly. A puzzle game comes out and changes the focus, now it's a game that has to be played. If getting TO the story is completely dull because it pretends that minor chores meant to unlock the next quip are, in fact, PUZZLES, the game itself is boring to play and badly designed, no matter WHAT else is going on, because that's the VERY BASIC DESIGN OF THE GAME, that's the very DEFINITION of your interaction with the world, and it's what separates THIS medium from others. You don't write a book like a screenplay or vice-versa, you don't make a game like a movie and then put in the game as an afterthought that should keep pace moving along like a film. The very IDEA that the GAME in a GAME does not matter is not only baffling, it's simply WRONG.