Clearly, you must be REALLY pushing out with things just to criticize if you take up the realty space of about 4-6 posts.
Sometimes, if you have a very long drawn-out thought, don't say anything at all.
...seriously? I'd understand if all Rather Dashing did was ramble on and on incoherently, but he doesn't. Even when he's expressing an opinion I strongly disagree with, I find most everything he says enlightening and interesting. He puts a lot of thought into his posts, and there's no reason for him to be punished for it.
It's not like the more he types, the more space is taken away for others to post. Sheesh.
I don't see how. There is, of course, difference between good arguments and bad ones, but if you were heavily disappointed with something, I don't know why you're not allowed to actually say that.
An argument- good or bad, doesn't matter. It's just opinion anyways. What matters is the basis of an opinion. Imagine you're standing inside a cave and you try to describe the mountain the cave is in. It would be accurate, but still unfair to the mountain.
There's a lot of love put into s3, a lot of creativity. The graphics are clearly better, the atmosphere has clearly improved, it's way more userfriendly and there's no recycling of the same old places. That's some serious resources put down right there. These are major pillars that you can't just overlook.
I'm saying that you pick what you dislike and you blow it up and let it overshadow the whole. And that's where the whole issue is for me. You downplay very important parts of the game and let room for stuff that's probably more connected to a period of your life, than how you really experienced it back then. Nostalgia.
I'm aware you got critiqued by someone else as well, which is unfortunate, because the natural reaction then is to get more defensive, which decreases the chance in the longrun that you'll enjoy the games more.
I'm not against you. I just know that you can enjoy the game a lot more if you watch from some other POVs as well.
It seems to me that the only difference here is that there are some things that are acceptable to dislike, and some things that are not, and the latter category isn't allowed to be treated the same as something that you may dislike just as much but also has the collective vitriol of the community.
If the collective enjoys a thing more than you do, why would you not want to learn how to enjoy it as much, or even more?
It seems to me that if I really dislike something popular, suddenly I am expected to temper my opinions down or find a way to express them "positively", which I simply don't think is an honest representation.
So, basicly you're sacrificing your fun for the collective good .
I try not to directly insult specific forum members, and the way I see it that's all a person needs to do. If someone absolutely LOVES something that I despise, that doesn't mean I have to interrogate them about personal issues when the original point was just that they thought Episode II: Attack of the Clones was the best film.
No, I guess I'm out of line in a way. I don't normally do this either, but when I read your posts I felt I had to.
That's not discussion, that's anathema to discussion. A better course of action would be to take what they said about the films, and counter them with my own interpretation of things, rather than simply saying that they must not actually think what they say they think. And at the end of the day we may still strongly disagree. That's okay.
That's totally pointless for me. Why argue about how people see things? It's just how they see things.
What's important is where they stand when they see things. Maybe there's a better road to a spot where they can get a better view?
One thing that you must know is that you don't objectively experience art. Nobody does.
That depends on the definitions of art and objective. Like music isn't mathematical. Like feelings can't be roughly calculated.
Now, you can try to be objective, and I think I've been fairly close to it. You can be objective and also at the end think, "Wow, that was REALLY badly done".
If you would create points for every single game aspect and then put different weight into each and every one of these points, you would only reach the conclusion that s1 heavily beats s3 in the most extreme of cases. Regression analyzis teaches us to remove the most extremes. I'm just kidding, but what I am saying is that you may have a few points, but the weight you put on these points basicly ignores all the other points. The painting is important, but so are the motives, the framing and the environment the painting is in.
In the same way, a game isn't "about" the story, or the cinematography, or the graphics, etc. These things are part of the presentation, and they're IMPORTANT, but if what they're supporting isn't solid, the whole thing falls apart.
It doesn't fall apart if you don't let it fall apart.
I think you put far too much faith in your allegedly Vulcan-esque quality assessment. I think you find yourself believing that you can give an exact and scientific value to quality. You can't. Nobody can.
It's true, I cant. In the thresholds, nobody can. In the extremes, it's easier to identify and compare black and white. And if your assessment leaves you feeling negative, then maybe you can learn how to appreciate other things in a game so you can enjoy it more. Because it's all about enjoying the experience, and you have the power to convince yourself to enjoy it more.
Nobody experiences things in a vacuum, and it's impossible for somebody to go into an emotional and mental vacuum.
I meant that if you put yourself in the shoes of an episode like The Mole, The Mob and the Meatball being released now, you can very easily see that many would be disappointed.
And I have rarely reached a level where I'm clearly assessing feelings and taking all variables into account, but I have been there a few times. Totally "emotion free" although still being able to calculate emotion. I have a job that puts me in these spots a lot where as most don't so I can actually chalk that up as experience. Call it extreme focus or whatever.
I can say that if I am bored out of interest several times throughout a fairly short game, to the point that it takes me a month to muster up the energy and the willpower to actually slog through it, then it is not an engaging form of entertainment.
That energy and willpower comes from within, it doesn't come from the game. It has to do with your attitude and is something that can be changed. If you would really, really focus and tell yourself to enjoy the experience, you would.
I think you're wrong, and I'm willing to have a civil discussion as to why I think you're wrong. I think the arguments that you are presenting are anti-discussion and simply willfully ignorant, though, they're ideas that allow you to close your eyes and pretend that what you just read is a fabrication of some sort.
I can see how someone would view me as ignorant, sure.
It seems to me that you prefer denying that alternate viewpoints can logically exist
POVs are part of the same grid, they do not exist in separate dimensions, totally not in relation to eachother.
rather than engaging in an actual conversation, which is just about the worst attitude a person can bring into a discussion forum.
Yeah, the: "I think that it's yellow", "No, I'd rather think that it's slightly orange" game is boring. It's much more fun learning about how people are and why they view stuff as they do.
People act as though connoisseurs and critics suck the fun out of things, but that's simply not the case, unless you happen to be living in a world in which nothing is special, nothing has intrinsic value, and every piece of entertainment is exactly the same as any other. It just seems so shallow.
One of my friends is a connaisseur. He tastes wine with his whole body. It's a joy just to watch him taste. He should be a connaisseur, because he enjoys what he does. And the only thing important with something for someone who takes advice from a connaisseur is what in it is good to enjoy, not what's bad about it. A connaisseur is a communicator who teaches us what to enjoy, so we can enjoy the finer things, not someone who time and time again puts down experiences so we can learn how to despise. Granted, it's two absolutes of a spectrum, but it's easy to comparatively say that someone who enjoys has a better time than someone who despises.
You want the highs of the good but you don't want the lows of the bad. So you look for the good and try to avoid seeing the bad. Then your whole reality
can be adjusted upwards compared to others, since everything still is just POV and relative. Comparative, you'll just enjoy more than others, which you'll notice because you can compare. Emotions are like spirals in this way.
I'll be perfectly honest here, you're the one sounding like you're on pms.
nu'uh. u r. :rolleyes:
Taking items out of context and dismissing them based solely because they're not of the same opinion as you seems a bit unfair.
Don't you think it's hypocritical accusing me of dismissing opinions because they're not the same as mine, and then not quoting and showing but instead just assuming I should see things from your eyes just because you write I'm wrong?
And if your assessment leaves you feeling negative, then maybe you can learn how to appreciate other things in a game so you can enjoy it more. Because it's all about enjoying the experience, and you have the power to convince yourself to enjoy it more.
I wish I was masochist. I could force myself to enjoy Xenogears, Final Fantasy Tactics 2, and Final Fantasy 10...
I hate you: Because you're trying to change the way I post
I don't like it: Because there's only so much you can summarize before everything's the same, and I like reading longer posts that can have some complexity and differentiation.
Both of these explain why you suck and should die. <end angry bite-sized rant>
I'm just plighting to keep things readable for people new to this thread and you personally attack me, if you want to write long posts why not start your own thread? I would be happy to read them then.
But really, this is your answer? You hate me and I should die ? Really? (I do hope you realize what kind of awful things you are wishing upon me)
Well thanks!
Back to topic: I still find 304 the best of the series so far, despite the few glitches and design flaws.
Some of you guys really need to relax and step away from the forums for a little bit. These are videogames you're talking about; there's absolutely no excuse for personal attacks.
I must be fairly alone in that I really didn't care much for this episode, for several reasons.
Firstly, I feel that Lovecraftian Horrors are sort of overused in popular nerd fiction like video games. I know that the S&M comics also had Cthulhoid references, but such references are just not all that funny anymore. That being said, I thought Soggoth has ADORABLE and perfectly voiced - hope he returns in episode five.
Secondly, there were very few locations and not all that much to do in them. It seemed to me there was an even greater reliance on psychic powers than in the previous games, almost completely discounting the inventory. By now, this is getting repetitive for me - you find something that looks like a picture of anything, you use rhinoplasty, you find someone in need of distraction, you break out Charlie Ho-Tep, anyone saying "I will never tell you!" can be overcome with mind reading. Getting formulaic, which is why I'm looking forward to the final episode. Judging from this episode's ending, it looks like we might not get to play with psychic powers next time around, bringing back the ol'e inventory.
Thirdly, I did not like the secret identity of The Master. I was literally rolling my eyes when it became revealed. The Master was fleshed out a little later, but I still consider that specific plot twist silly.
Finally, the story of the entire season makes very little sense, even for Sam and Max. Every episode so far except for this last one has ended in a total non-sequitur and it annoys me.
Episode 1: Ends with you discovering skeletons of yourself
Episode 2: Ends with Max for no apparent reason standing around with his brain stolen.
Episode 3: Ends with an invasion of half-naked Sam zombies.
I realise it's some kind of homage to corny sci-fi shows, but it really doesn't grip me when the cliffhangers are so....bizarre and confusing. Thank God this episode had a cool ending and a good final showdown, even though there seemed to be little reason for you getting to the locations you did. "Oh wow, a gigantic evil villain lair with convenient exits to already explored locations just beneath Stinky's diner? Who'dathunkit!"
Which leads me to good things about the episode:
1. The revelation of the secret identity of Dr. Norrington was great and the good Doctor himself is excellently voiced, written and animated.
2. I loved the puzzle for getting the Cthonic destroyer. Messing with poor Sam was never so entertaining, particularly the romantic death scene. "Oh. AWKWARD!"
3. Animations were excellent. I especially liked the psionic battle at the end and the character animation in the end cutscene.
4. I like Sal. Girl Stinky could be written out of the show for all I care, but Sal's both funny and well-voiced.
5. This is also the funniest Old Man Stinky has been in ages. Who knew that all you had to do in order to win the old coot's heart was let him shotgun Sam in the face. In fact, the entire Diner Siege scene was funny - "Hurry up Sam, I'm running out of creative ways of shooting you in the face!"
2. I loved the puzzle for getting the Cthonic destroyer. Messing with poor Sam was never so entertaining, particularly the romantic death scene. "Oh. AWKWARD!"
I think I must have missed that. I just pressed a few buttons on the dimensional destabliser, Sam disappeared, then came back with the Cthonic Destroyer. Perhaps I was just extraordinarily lucky/unlucky?
because this is, maybe, the only episode of the third season I resolved all the puzzles by myself instead of just bump with the solution the half of the time. I don't know if my appreciation is correct, of course, but that's what I'm thinking.
301 and especially 303 pretty much solved itself for me, so I kind of agree. 302 and 304 got me thinking here and there.
Some of you guys really need to relax and step away from the forums for a little bit. These are videogames you're talking about; there's absolutely no excuse for personal attacks.
Maybe we should all write our own TL;DRs once the season is finished. It feels like my opinions on this season contradicts with others' greatly (especially of those who wrote ginormous forum posts about it), and I retain myself from typing out everything with a heartbeat since I want to make a complete, full detailed review of my own.
Oh, and, I also wouldn't be bickering with anyone just because someone thinks differently than I do.
I loved this episode. The puzzles were better than in the last one, there were some great jokes, and the plot was the best of the season. But, it did seem a little shorter than previous episodes.
The re-use of locations from episode to episode doesn't really bother me, since I think you have to look at all episodes combined as the equivalent of a game. So far we've had an alien spaceship, Bosco Tech, the office building basement, an early 20th century theater and neighborhood, an Egyptian tomb, a three-car train, the Noir streets, the Museum of Mostly Natural History, an alternative reality, a cloning facility, the warehouse docks, and the Statue of Liberty. Some of these encompass much more than a single room. Plus whatever's new in Ep. 5. That sounds like plenty for a single game, doesn't it?
I think I must have missed that. I just pressed a few buttons on the dimensional destabliser, Sam disappeared, then came back with the Cthonic Destroyer. Perhaps I was just extraordinarily lucky/unlucky?
There are 81 possible combos so I'd say you get unlucky.
I am surprised to read such praise for this episode. I found it the most linear and easy one yet. I felt like I was just moving from plot point to plot point. The whole season has been mainly about interactive story-telling for me and not puzzle-solving to be honest but this episode felt to be pretty much devoid of puzzles entirely. *shrugs* I don't know why I felt this way but others did not. But there you go.
Hey, story-wise it continues to rock my world and I am enjoying it immensely. But I am enjoying it for the plot and not the gameplay.
I was very happy by the way with the lack of hints in the episode. I was nervous about using Futurvision and so it didn't come out much but I am pretty sure it was used better this episode. And there weren't many randomly helpful bits of dialogue to annoy me. Yay.
I am surprised to read such praise for this episode. I found it the most linear and easy one yet. I felt like I was just moving from plot point to plot point. The whole season has been mainly about interactive story-telling for me and not puzzle-solving to be honest but this episode felt to be pretty much devoid of puzzles entirely. *shrugs* I don't know why I felt this way but others did not. But there you go.
Hey, story-wise it continues to rock my world and I am enjoying it immensely. But I am enjoying it for the plot and not the gameplay.
I was very happy by the way with the lack of hints in the episode. I was nervous about using Futurvision and so it didn't come out much but I am pretty sure it was used better this episode. And there weren't many randomly helpful bits of dialogue to annoy me. Yay.
Interestingly, the major revelation of this episode's villain disappointed me a little, but I thought it wasn't a waste at all since the puzzles were the most creative ones in any Sam and Max game.
I'm just plighting to keep things readable for people new to this thread and you personally attack me, if you want to write long posts why not start your own thread? I would be happy to read them then.
But really, this is your answer? You hate me and I should die ? Really? (I do hope you realize what kind of awful things you are wishing upon me)
Well thanks!
YOu're taking humor far too seriously, and I'm sorry you did because I really wasn't going for that kind of reaction. Hell, I only used the word die because it rhymes with pie! It's hard to convey a point in such a small space, but I attempted to in this case for the sake of humor. It apparently did not go over well with you, though I apparently have some positive reviews of that post as well, so it's at least subjective. Anyway, I do apologize that you took it literally.
Long posts are perfectly readable. In fact, they're a good deal BETTER than short ones. "I liked the game. Puzzles good. Graphics good. Soda Poppers BAD!!!! NO SODA POPPERS!! Music good!". I prefer my discussion forums not to be a simple catalog of opinions, and that's what you get closer to when you're asking people to trim out hundreds of words. And inflection is somewhat lost as well, notice my summary of WHY YOUR POST WAS BAD.
In all of my longer posts, I think about what to say and how to say it, and how what I'm saying contributes to the overall message that I'm trying to convey. It's not an extended analytical thing for me, but something that just comes naturally when writing anything of somewhat substantial length, forum posts included. Hell, I've even excluded a lot of thoughts, much to my detriment, because the way I presented my opinions seems to have allowed everyone else to say I have a narrowed viewpoint, when I'm just trying to keep it trimmed down to what's important. I've happily read longer forum posts than the one in this thread, I've written longer posts, and I think they contribute a great deal more than something that amounts to a list of common categories next to switches marked "Yay" and "Nay".
Also, there's a cool thing about long forum posts, and that's that people can elect not to read them at all. A person who thinks of forums as long lists of opinions that either clash with or affirm their own? They can just scroll right past. Hell, the post isn't even taking up real-estate in the thread! There is no limit to how many words can be in a thread! I'm not using up a limited resource! So it's cool! People who hate reading, people who see large boxes of text as incendiary attacks to the eyeballs? You can escape! Stop and scroll!
OnlyAMonkey, your post is less inflammatory, but the problem is that it's now confusing, self-contradictory, and implies that everyone should be searching to be in equilibrium with everyone else. You say I should like something because most people like it, or dislike it because most people dislike it, in order to "sacrifice for a greater good". I don't think homogeneity is in the best interests of a discussion forum, unless the point of a forum is to allow the largest subset of people to have their opinions affirmed by others rather than to, well, discuss with a variety of thoughts and viewpoints.
Also, I could totally be snarky and go to town about your "how people see things" remark, but suffice it to say I think you should read over your own post and see where you may have said things that contradict what you say elsewhere in the same post.
Also, Rather Dashing, Greywing, and anyone else involved in your "talk to each other about the contents of your posts, instead of about 'your opinions on 304,'" take your conversations to PMs right now.
If you guys have something to say to each other and just each other -- and you've been spilling a lot of ink on the meta-conversation within this thread, so I'm assuming you do -- PMs should be a perfectly fine place to continue the conversation.
If you feel that's not appropriate, if you feel you need an audience to continue blasting your thoughts on each other out into the forums at full volume for the entertainment or interest of others in public, then, well, I hope you can see how dumb that would be without having to go further.
Also, Rather Dashing, Greywing, and anyone else involved in your talk to each other about the contents of your posts, instead of about "your opinions on 304," take your conversations to PMs right now.
If you guys have something to say to each other -- and you've been spilling a lot of ink on the meta-conversation within this thread, so I'm assuming you do -- PMs should be a perfectly fine place to continue the conversation. If you feel that's not appropriate, if you feel you need an audience to continue blasting your thoughts on each other out into the forums at full volume for the entertainment or interest of others in public, then you guys should just stop entirely.
Ah, you're right, of course. It's totally veered completely out of the correct context. Whether or not it's a useful discussion to have, I now realize that it's not a useful discussion to have here, and I apologize for derailing without thinking about it.
Seriously this season has been so good.... I just can't see a better sam and max game. Now telltale that doesn't mean I don't want a season 4 (needs it) but just wow. This episode also just..... is it just me or the the scope a lot more epic this time arround.
I think if they did a Season 4, it would be in a completely different style. All elements of the paranormal stuff have been explored in Seasons 2 and 3 and I think it could come back but not be the main focus.
As long as they could create the same new great characters they have for this series (skunkape, papierwaite, norrington, sal) with all the planning they do, I'm sure they couldn't go far wrong with another season.
Ah, you're right, of course. It's totally veered completely out of the correct context. Whether or not it's a useful discussion to have, I now realize that it's not a useful discussion to have here, and I apologize for derailing without thinking about it.
I apologize for this thread-derailment and no hard feelings about your reaction, as said I probably took it a bit to literal. So big hugs for everybody (limited supply, one per customer) and lets get things back on track:
After a week letting the experience sink in, I found a couple of things I did not like with 304:
Traveling between locations took more time then it should. Phones were located at inconvenient places (Momma Bosco's lab for example). So most of the time it took less time just walking from point A to B.
It took me quite a while to realize the dementional destabilsor was actually of any use. If you converse with Momma Bosco about it before you are able to operate it, the reaction suggests its as useful as all of the other devices in the room.
Somehow a bug with Momma Bosco not wanting to teleport onto the platform had me puzzled. No matter what I tried she wouldn't get up there. I enabled the hint system and it didn't spout any useful tips on getting her up there. (in the end she did teleport.. reluctantly)
Stop getting my hopes up by labeling dr. Norrington's office as "Office" on the teleportation toy!...
So in the end, all problems were (even if they weren't) caused by Momma Bosco. And on a side note: All glory to Buster Blaster!
First off I will say that I love the Sam & Max games. "Hey, I'm playing Sam & Max!" is the dominant thought for me, which overshadows any thoughts of presumed gameplay length. What's great about the series is that each one strives to improve from the previous episode. Think back to the first season when, at the time, the fans were like "Sam & Max 3d game! Awesome!" Now we have season three, much more epic and mold-breaking episodes. I like the 6 episode length of season one but plot and puzzlewize there was a sameness overall, the typical two sets of three elements stuff. Even season 2 dealt with some of that.
Mold-breaking is the name of the game. I guess that's why many of the old characters have been removed. In many cases it's because the jokes have been too familiar. "What's crazy Sybil got for a job this time?" "What's crazy Bosco paranoid about this time?" Episode 301 is a treasure trove for those familiar with the lore of the past games because so many questions about missing bits can be answered.
Changes
Like I mentioned several things are gone for season three that I am happy with. At top are the driving and/or shooting mini-games from the past. At those points it was "great, now I've got to bust out poor skills instead of my wits". The DeSoto has been underplayed this season, mostly due to teleportation or other psychic travel like astral projector. The car has been beaten up so much recently that I hope it gets a break soon.
Though some characters are gone I still wish that they get a chance to cameo in the last episode. Boscoe being replaced by the (somehow reversed aged, when compared to her 205 appearance) ghost mom. Him and Buster Blaster going to Vegas was an interesting write off. I keep hoping at the beginning of the season that there would be a vegas episode, which would open the chance for bad magic acts and whatnot. Though it makes sense that Buster Blaster doesn't stay with the COPS. He doesn't have some useful function and he can't easily fit in the DeSoto along with everyone else.
That's something I kinda miss from the the past two seasons: a sense of travel. Sure, in season 1 it was only Straight&Narrow plus some other spot (expanded in season two). But exploring more of the city is nice.
In fact, if one was only to piece together the major beats of the season (excluding astral projection in the past) this is the only Sam & Max case to take place in UNDER 3 DAYS! The amount of immediate plot connection from one episode to the next is amazing and well done. Past seasons had over-arcing plots and at the start of episodes the characters suggest that like the audience a month has past in-between (excluding 204/205). For season 3 Sam & Max deal with Sunkape in one day; watch/experience the events of their ancestors in the evening during a movie; max gets his brain stolen, Sam solves the case that night and the reality shift could almost make a time loop; and now later in that same night we have episode 4. Wow. And future vision cues suggest that episode 5 takes place the morning after the statue of liberty incident. And we have yet to step into Sam & Max's office. Give a hand up for the writing staff (claps)
Even season three changes come to fruition for episode 4. We finally get a full bevy of Toys of Power instead of two or three. Especially given the wait between the usage of some of the toys like the mind reading cards. In fact, using toys with specific powers reminds me of episode 106 with all the magical talismans.
Fav Moments
In the first dinner scene there is the picture of the DeSoto. Using Rhinoplasty turns Max into the...little DeSoto. I kept that form for most of the game even though it would alert the Sam clones.
Grandpa Stinky eating the Max cake. I kept waiting for a "is my spleen missing" or such joke since a part of the cake was taken.
Charlie Ho-Tep. I wasn't expecting this and despite the slight stereotype it was well played. The game provides subtle hints to Charlie's plights at becoming the villain. At first I was like "Charlie's back? Sweet, time for ventriloquisim fun!" Cruising through that penultimate scene I thought "Ok, let's distract the clones with Buster Blaster again OMG THE DUMMY IS ALIVE!!" Upon this revelation at the next available moment I decided to go to an earlier save point because I had missed the Master option at the microphone. I replay the events up to that point again and when I activate ventriloquism with this new knowledge I notice Charlie's position and his eyeball: HE HAS BEEN STARING AT US THE ENTIRE SEASON! Creepy.
One of the random dialogs when talking to Max, mentioning how the Devil hasn't appeared since it's his toybox in the title. Despite the backstory that still would be cool, see below.
Glitches
I had the disappearing sticky notes during the destabilizer puzzle, which made it all the more challenging. But the craziest ones were in the cloning chamber once Sal had dropped. Sam & Max were looking up at the center and I forgot what I clicked on but suddenly they were up on the command center without using the phone! Then after future vision I thought of shooting Stinky and they were back on the balcony shooting up at her! Another time I got them up there normally and took the elevator back down but Sam got stuck in the hole for the lift, unable to move. Switching in and out of Max mode fixed that and it never happened again.
Predictions
There are still plenty of of things left unanswered for the finale. I think there could be main Toy of Power or two missing. In the season trailer there is what looks like a pair of x-ray specs with the other toys, which is odd because we already have a goggle toy with the future vision but it could be for actually seeing through things, unless that was a beta element.
Sam will end up eaten by Max and that would lead him to a dark dimension place to live out all of the future visions from the destabilizer puzzle. This is probably how you get back the real Max.
Telltale rarely has throwaway characters. Heck, even Brady Culture gets another appearance after 2 seasons from 101 to 205. So anyone new from season 3 is good game for return. I still think the random tourist guy might be part of something bigger. While playing I thought he might be the Master because that would be so out of left field but then Charlie Ho-Tep comes out of right field.
And the alien brain is bound to return. Lots of brains this season: alien brain, Sammunmak (Sam and Max) brain, Max's brain. He could be the big bad behind everything. My top picks are the alien brain, the narrator, and the tourist guy. The narrator's pretty cool. I'm sure he'll directly interact with the characters at some point. He almost sounds like Beelzebub from season 2 though it just might be the accent. Also, I thought Charlie's squeaky voice sounded alot like the Soda Poppers so it could be one of the voice actors, I can't remember.
Beelzebub would be a cool reappearance. At the end of 205 he menacingly mentions that he will meet Sam & Max again. Despite him showing up at the wedding during the credits the menace is very suggestive. After all, the series is about his playhouse, it seems.
If Leonard Steakcharmer, Jurgen's Monster, or Philo Pennyworth showed up again that would be hilarious. But that's mostly wishful thinking.
Sal is not dead (characters in these games never stay "dead" for long". He just fell a long ways and is probably trapped somewhere, unable to hear here. Momma Bosco has also wandered off by this time so maybe she found him while exploring the cloning chamber.
Puddin' head Lincoln and the Chrysler Building incident will occur. All minor future visions (not the wrong future episode 1 prologue) have occurred by plot events on and off screen. Also I like all the events throughout the season where Sam is worried that Max's powers will become disastrous.
There are still plenty of of things left unanswered for the finale. I think there could be main Toy of Power or two missing. In the season trailer there is what looks like a pair of x-ray specs with the other toys, which is odd because we already have a goggle toy with the future vision but it could be for actually seeing through things, unless that was a beta element.
The x-ray specs are the Nutrispecs, a hidden toy in The Penal Zone, that's still a PS3 exclusive so far even though it was planned for the PC/Mac versions. The Pudding Head Lincoln scene happens with the Nutrispecs.
(I don't have the PS3 version myself but it has been mentioned several times on these forums)
Comments
why would you even say that
...seriously? I'd understand if all Rather Dashing did was ramble on and on incoherently, but he doesn't. Even when he's expressing an opinion I strongly disagree with, I find most everything he says enlightening and interesting. He puts a lot of thought into his posts, and there's no reason for him to be punished for it.
It's not like the more he types, the more space is taken away for others to post. Sheesh.
So...if we have a thought, we should keep it to ourselves? Okay, I just had a thought about you, but I'll keep it to myself.
(And I agree with Cello.)
There's a lot of love put into s3, a lot of creativity. The graphics are clearly better, the atmosphere has clearly improved, it's way more userfriendly and there's no recycling of the same old places. That's some serious resources put down right there. These are major pillars that you can't just overlook.
I'm saying that you pick what you dislike and you blow it up and let it overshadow the whole. And that's where the whole issue is for me. You downplay very important parts of the game and let room for stuff that's probably more connected to a period of your life, than how you really experienced it back then. Nostalgia.
I'm aware you got critiqued by someone else as well, which is unfortunate, because the natural reaction then is to get more defensive, which decreases the chance in the longrun that you'll enjoy the games more.
I'm not against you. I just know that you can enjoy the game a lot more if you watch from some other POVs as well.
If the collective enjoys a thing more than you do, why would you not want to learn how to enjoy it as much, or even more?
So, basicly you're sacrificing your fun for the collective good
No, I guess I'm out of line in a way. I don't normally do this either, but when I read your posts I felt I had to.
That's totally pointless for me. Why argue about how people see things? It's just how they see things.
What's important is where they stand when they see things. Maybe there's a better road to a spot where they can get a better view?
That depends on the definitions of art and objective. Like music isn't mathematical. Like feelings can't be roughly calculated.
If you would create points for every single game aspect and then put different weight into each and every one of these points, you would only reach the conclusion that s1 heavily beats s3 in the most extreme of cases. Regression analyzis teaches us to remove the most extremes. I'm just kidding, but what I am saying is that you may have a few points, but the weight you put on these points basicly ignores all the other points. The painting is important, but so are the motives, the framing and the environment the painting is in.
It doesn't fall apart if you don't let it fall apart.
It's true, I cant. In the thresholds, nobody can. In the extremes, it's easier to identify and compare black and white. And if your assessment leaves you feeling negative, then maybe you can learn how to appreciate other things in a game so you can enjoy it more. Because it's all about enjoying the experience, and you have the power to convince yourself to enjoy it more.
I meant that if you put yourself in the shoes of an episode like The Mole, The Mob and the Meatball being released now, you can very easily see that many would be disappointed.
And I have rarely reached a level where I'm clearly assessing feelings and taking all variables into account, but I have been there a few times. Totally "emotion free" although still being able to calculate emotion. I have a job that puts me in these spots a lot where as most don't so I can actually chalk that up as experience. Call it extreme focus or whatever.
That energy and willpower comes from within, it doesn't come from the game. It has to do with your attitude and is something that can be changed. If you would really, really focus and tell yourself to enjoy the experience, you would.
I can see how someone would view me as ignorant, sure.
POVs are part of the same grid, they do not exist in separate dimensions, totally not in relation to eachother.
Yeah, the: "I think that it's yellow", "No, I'd rather think that it's slightly orange" game is boring. It's much more fun learning about how people are and why they view stuff as they do.
One of my friends is a connaisseur. He tastes wine with his whole body. It's a joy just to watch him taste. He should be a connaisseur, because he enjoys what he does. And the only thing important with something for someone who takes advice from a connaisseur is what in it is good to enjoy, not what's bad about it. A connaisseur is a communicator who teaches us what to enjoy, so we can enjoy the finer things, not someone who time and time again puts down experiences so we can learn how to despise. Granted, it's two absolutes of a spectrum, but it's easy to comparatively say that someone who enjoys has a better time than someone who despises.
You want the highs of the good but you don't want the lows of the bad. So you look for the good and try to avoid seeing the bad. Then your whole reality
can be adjusted upwards compared to others, since everything still is just POV and relative. Comparative, you'll just enjoy more than others, which you'll notice because you can compare. Emotions are like spirals in this way.
Hope this was less flamey.
Don't you think it's hypocritical accusing me of dismissing opinions because they're not the same as mine, and then not quoting and showing but instead just assuming I should see things from your eyes just because you write I'm wrong?
hypocritcal
what
I wish I was masochist. I could force myself to enjoy Xenogears, Final Fantasy Tactics 2, and Final Fantasy 10...
I'm just plighting to keep things readable for people new to this thread and you personally attack me, if you want to write long posts why not start your own thread? I would be happy to read them then.
But really, this is your answer? You hate me and I should die ? Really? (I do hope you realize what kind of awful things you are wishing upon me)
Well thanks!
Back to topic: I still find 304 the best of the series so far, despite the few glitches and design flaws.
Firstly, I feel that Lovecraftian Horrors are sort of overused in popular nerd fiction like video games. I know that the S&M comics also had Cthulhoid references, but such references are just not all that funny anymore. That being said, I thought Soggoth has ADORABLE and perfectly voiced - hope he returns in episode five.
Secondly, there were very few locations and not all that much to do in them. It seemed to me there was an even greater reliance on psychic powers than in the previous games, almost completely discounting the inventory. By now, this is getting repetitive for me - you find something that looks like a picture of anything, you use rhinoplasty, you find someone in need of distraction, you break out Charlie Ho-Tep, anyone saying "I will never tell you!" can be overcome with mind reading. Getting formulaic, which is why I'm looking forward to the final episode. Judging from this episode's ending, it looks like we might not get to play with psychic powers next time around, bringing back the ol'e inventory.
Thirdly, I did not like the secret identity of The Master. I was literally rolling my eyes when it became revealed. The Master was fleshed out a little later, but I still consider that specific plot twist silly.
Finally, the story of the entire season makes very little sense, even for Sam and Max. Every episode so far except for this last one has ended in a total non-sequitur and it annoys me.
Episode 1: Ends with you discovering skeletons of yourself
Episode 2: Ends with Max for no apparent reason standing around with his brain stolen.
Episode 3: Ends with an invasion of half-naked Sam zombies.
I realise it's some kind of homage to corny sci-fi shows, but it really doesn't grip me when the cliffhangers are so....bizarre and confusing. Thank God this episode had a cool ending and a good final showdown, even though there seemed to be little reason for you getting to the locations you did. "Oh wow, a gigantic evil villain lair with convenient exits to already explored locations just beneath Stinky's diner? Who'dathunkit!"
Which leads me to good things about the episode:
1. The revelation of the secret identity of Dr. Norrington was great and the good Doctor himself is excellently voiced, written and animated.
2. I loved the puzzle for getting the Cthonic destroyer. Messing with poor Sam was never so entertaining, particularly the romantic death scene. "Oh. AWKWARD!"
3. Animations were excellent. I especially liked the psionic battle at the end and the character animation in the end cutscene.
4. I like Sal. Girl Stinky could be written out of the show for all I care, but Sal's both funny and well-voiced.
5. This is also the funniest Old Man Stinky has been in ages. Who knew that all you had to do in order to win the old coot's heart was let him shotgun Sam in the face. In fact, the entire Diner Siege scene was funny - "Hurry up Sam, I'm running out of creative ways of shooting you in the face!"
Looking forward to the conclusion of the series.
301 and especially 303 pretty much solved itself for me, so I kind of agree. 302 and 304 got me thinking here and there.
Now this was an unexpected post if I saw any
Disappointed that we're (presumably) going solo in much of the last episode though.
Oh, and, I also wouldn't be bickering with anyone just because someone thinks differently than I do.
There are 81 possible combos so I'd say you get unlucky.
Hey, story-wise it continues to rock my world and I am enjoying it immensely. But I am enjoying it for the plot and not the gameplay.
I was very happy by the way with the lack of hints in the episode. I was nervous about using Futurvision and so it didn't come out much but I am pretty sure it was used better this episode. And there weren't many randomly helpful bits of dialogue to annoy me. Yay.
Interestingly, the major revelation of this episode's villain disappointed me a little, but I thought it wasn't a waste at all since the puzzles were the most creative ones in any Sam and Max game.
Long posts are perfectly readable. In fact, they're a good deal BETTER than short ones. "I liked the game. Puzzles good. Graphics good. Soda Poppers BAD!!!! NO SODA POPPERS!! Music good!". I prefer my discussion forums not to be a simple catalog of opinions, and that's what you get closer to when you're asking people to trim out hundreds of words. And inflection is somewhat lost as well, notice my summary of WHY YOUR POST WAS BAD.
In all of my longer posts, I think about what to say and how to say it, and how what I'm saying contributes to the overall message that I'm trying to convey. It's not an extended analytical thing for me, but something that just comes naturally when writing anything of somewhat substantial length, forum posts included. Hell, I've even excluded a lot of thoughts, much to my detriment, because the way I presented my opinions seems to have allowed everyone else to say I have a narrowed viewpoint, when I'm just trying to keep it trimmed down to what's important. I've happily read longer forum posts than the one in this thread, I've written longer posts, and I think they contribute a great deal more than something that amounts to a list of common categories next to switches marked "Yay" and "Nay".
Also, there's a cool thing about long forum posts, and that's that people can elect not to read them at all. A person who thinks of forums as long lists of opinions that either clash with or affirm their own? They can just scroll right past. Hell, the post isn't even taking up real-estate in the thread! There is no limit to how many words can be in a thread! I'm not using up a limited resource! So it's cool! People who hate reading, people who see large boxes of text as incendiary attacks to the eyeballs? You can escape! Stop and scroll!
OnlyAMonkey, your post is less inflammatory, but the problem is that it's now confusing, self-contradictory, and implies that everyone should be searching to be in equilibrium with everyone else. You say I should like something because most people like it, or dislike it because most people dislike it, in order to "sacrifice for a greater good". I don't think homogeneity is in the best interests of a discussion forum, unless the point of a forum is to allow the largest subset of people to have their opinions affirmed by others rather than to, well, discuss with a variety of thoughts and viewpoints.
Also, I could totally be snarky and go to town about your "how people see things" remark, but suffice it to say I think you should read over your own post and see where you may have said things that contradict what you say elsewhere in the same post.
If it'd stop your in-character posting, no, it's never too late to change your username.
Jake, my good friend! You know my in character work livens up the place. You'd miss it if it were gone, I'm sure.
If you guys have something to say to each other and just each other -- and you've been spilling a lot of ink on the meta-conversation within this thread, so I'm assuming you do -- PMs should be a perfectly fine place to continue the conversation.
If you feel that's not appropriate, if you feel you need an audience to continue blasting your thoughts on each other out into the forums at full volume for the entertainment or interest of others in public, then, well, I hope you can see how dumb that would be without having to go further.
As long as they could create the same new great characters they have for this series (skunkape, papierwaite, norrington, sal) with all the planning they do, I'm sure they couldn't go far wrong with another season.
I apologize for this thread-derailment and no hard feelings about your reaction, as said I probably took it a bit to literal. So big hugs for everybody (limited supply, one per customer) and lets get things back on track:
After a week letting the experience sink in, I found a couple of things I did not like with 304:
- Stop getting my hopes up by labeling dr. Norrington's office as "Office" on the teleportation toy!...
So in the end, all problems were (even if they weren't) caused by Momma Bosco. And on a side note: All glory to Buster Blaster!First off I will say that I love the Sam & Max games. "Hey, I'm playing Sam & Max!" is the dominant thought for me, which overshadows any thoughts of presumed gameplay length. What's great about the series is that each one strives to improve from the previous episode. Think back to the first season when, at the time, the fans were like "Sam & Max 3d game! Awesome!" Now we have season three, much more epic and mold-breaking episodes. I like the 6 episode length of season one but plot and puzzlewize there was a sameness overall, the typical two sets of three elements stuff. Even season 2 dealt with some of that.
Mold-breaking is the name of the game. I guess that's why many of the old characters have been removed. In many cases it's because the jokes have been too familiar. "What's crazy Sybil got for a job this time?" "What's crazy Bosco paranoid about this time?" Episode 301 is a treasure trove for those familiar with the lore of the past games because so many questions about missing bits can be answered.
Changes
Like I mentioned several things are gone for season three that I am happy with. At top are the driving and/or shooting mini-games from the past. At those points it was "great, now I've got to bust out poor skills instead of my wits". The DeSoto has been underplayed this season, mostly due to teleportation or other psychic travel like astral projector. The car has been beaten up so much recently that I hope it gets a break soon.
Though some characters are gone I still wish that they get a chance to cameo in the last episode. Boscoe being replaced by the (somehow reversed aged, when compared to her 205 appearance) ghost mom. Him and Buster Blaster going to Vegas was an interesting write off. I keep hoping at the beginning of the season that there would be a vegas episode, which would open the chance for bad magic acts and whatnot. Though it makes sense that Buster Blaster doesn't stay with the COPS. He doesn't have some useful function and he can't easily fit in the DeSoto along with everyone else.
That's something I kinda miss from the the past two seasons: a sense of travel. Sure, in season 1 it was only Straight&Narrow plus some other spot (expanded in season two). But exploring more of the city is nice.
In fact, if one was only to piece together the major beats of the season (excluding astral projection in the past) this is the only Sam & Max case to take place in UNDER 3 DAYS! The amount of immediate plot connection from one episode to the next is amazing and well done. Past seasons had over-arcing plots and at the start of episodes the characters suggest that like the audience a month has past in-between (excluding 204/205). For season 3 Sam & Max deal with Sunkape in one day; watch/experience the events of their ancestors in the evening during a movie; max gets his brain stolen, Sam solves the case that night and the reality shift could almost make a time loop; and now later in that same night we have episode 4. Wow. And future vision cues suggest that episode 5 takes place the morning after the statue of liberty incident. And we have yet to step into Sam & Max's office. Give a hand up for the writing staff (claps)
Even season three changes come to fruition for episode 4. We finally get a full bevy of Toys of Power instead of two or three. Especially given the wait between the usage of some of the toys like the mind reading cards. In fact, using toys with specific powers reminds me of episode 106 with all the magical talismans.
Fav Moments
In the first dinner scene there is the picture of the DeSoto. Using Rhinoplasty turns Max into the...little DeSoto. I kept that form for most of the game even though it would alert the Sam clones.
Grandpa Stinky eating the Max cake. I kept waiting for a "is my spleen missing" or such joke since a part of the cake was taken.
Charlie Ho-Tep. I wasn't expecting this and despite the slight stereotype it was well played. The game provides subtle hints to Charlie's plights at becoming the villain. At first I was like "Charlie's back? Sweet, time for ventriloquisim fun!" Cruising through that penultimate scene I thought "Ok, let's distract the clones with Buster Blaster again OMG THE DUMMY IS ALIVE!!" Upon this revelation at the next available moment I decided to go to an earlier save point because I had missed the Master option at the microphone. I replay the events up to that point again and when I activate ventriloquism with this new knowledge I notice Charlie's position and his eyeball: HE HAS BEEN STARING AT US THE ENTIRE SEASON! Creepy.
One of the random dialogs when talking to Max, mentioning how the Devil hasn't appeared since it's his toybox in the title. Despite the backstory that still would be cool, see below.
Glitches
I had the disappearing sticky notes during the destabilizer puzzle, which made it all the more challenging. But the craziest ones were in the cloning chamber once Sal had dropped. Sam & Max were looking up at the center and I forgot what I clicked on but suddenly they were up on the command center without using the phone! Then after future vision I thought of shooting Stinky and they were back on the balcony shooting up at her! Another time I got them up there normally and took the elevator back down but Sam got stuck in the hole for the lift, unable to move. Switching in and out of Max mode fixed that and it never happened again.
Predictions
There are still plenty of of things left unanswered for the finale. I think there could be main Toy of Power or two missing. In the season trailer there is what looks like a pair of x-ray specs with the other toys, which is odd because we already have a goggle toy with the future vision but it could be for actually seeing through things, unless that was a beta element.
Sam will end up eaten by Max and that would lead him to a dark dimension place to live out all of the future visions from the destabilizer puzzle. This is probably how you get back the real Max.
Telltale rarely has throwaway characters. Heck, even Brady Culture gets another appearance after 2 seasons from 101 to 205. So anyone new from season 3 is good game for return. I still think the random tourist guy might be part of something bigger. While playing I thought he might be the Master because that would be so out of left field but then Charlie Ho-Tep comes out of right field.
And the alien brain is bound to return. Lots of brains this season: alien brain, Sammunmak (Sam and Max) brain, Max's brain. He could be the big bad behind everything. My top picks are the alien brain, the narrator, and the tourist guy. The narrator's pretty cool. I'm sure he'll directly interact with the characters at some point. He almost sounds like Beelzebub from season 2 though it just might be the accent. Also, I thought Charlie's squeaky voice sounded alot like the Soda Poppers so it could be one of the voice actors, I can't remember.
Beelzebub would be a cool reappearance. At the end of 205 he menacingly mentions that he will meet Sam & Max again. Despite him showing up at the wedding during the credits the menace is very suggestive. After all, the series is about his playhouse, it seems.
If Leonard Steakcharmer, Jurgen's Monster, or Philo Pennyworth showed up again that would be hilarious. But that's mostly wishful thinking.
Sal is not dead (characters in these games never stay "dead" for long". He just fell a long ways and is probably trapped somewhere, unable to hear here. Momma Bosco has also wandered off by this time so maybe she found him while exploring the cloning chamber.
Puddin' head Lincoln and the Chrysler Building incident will occur. All minor future visions (not the wrong future episode 1 prologue) have occurred by plot events on and off screen. Also I like all the events throughout the season where Sam is worried that Max's powers will become disastrous.
The x-ray specs are the Nutrispecs, a hidden toy in The Penal Zone, that's still a PS3 exclusive so far even though it was planned for the PC/Mac versions. The Pudding Head Lincoln scene happens with the Nutrispecs.
(I don't have the PS3 version myself but it has been mentioned several times on these forums)