Which one do you think is better, 3D animation or 2D animation? (Mind you, we're talking about animated films and series, not video games)
Depends. I think ultimately in my mind story takes precedence over style, though a truly terrible aesthetic can completely ruin that. I suppose I have a slight preference for 2D animation simply because of three factors:
- It tends to hold up better over time.
- There can be more stylistic variation without running the risk of dropping into that uncanny valley that CGI tends to fall into more often than not.
- 2D just seems less noticeable. That probably sounds like a criticism, but it's not. Art and stylistic choices for a movie or cartoon are to move the story forward and present a certain visual setting. Animation is the backdrop to good story and if you're not paying attention to how good the art is, then that means you're absorbed in the story. 3D I ALWAYS notice, meaning that it never seems like a totally integrated part of the story-telling experience.
This is not to say that I dislike 3D because I'm a huge fan of the Pixar films and early 3D shows like Reboot. It's just...I don't know, 2D works a bit more for me as a viewer.
2D vs 3D is actually the wrong dichotomy. Claymation is just as 3D, if not moreso, than 3D CGI, and animation done in a computer can easily be 2D(and 2D computer animation is really popular with low-budget shows). The difference for me is between hand-crafted animation and computer-crafted animation. Even then, the two can(and often are) blended, like in Futurama with Rough Draft studios.
This is not to say that I dislike 3D because I'm a huge fan of the Pixar films and early 3D shows like Reboot.
w00t, a fellow ReBoot fan! Did you hear that the current owners of the IP recently announced that they'll be releasing a DVD box set of the whole series? Hasn't been any more word on releasing a new series though, but given the way it was going, that's maybe for the best.
As far as 2D vs 3D goes, it really doesn't make that big a difference to me as long as the story's good and it's well-made. Cheap CGI looks bad, but so does cheap 2D animation.
w00t, a fellow ReBoot fan! Did you hear that the current owners of the IP recently announced that they'll be releasing a DVD box set of the whole series? Hasn't been any more word on releasing a new series though, but given the way it was going, that's maybe for the best.
I hadn't heard that, but YES! FINALLY! I've been waiting for a ReBoot box set for years. That makes me very, very happy.
Ever since the Moral Orel cancellation and the reasoning behind it, Adult Swim has been a real sore spot for me, personally. During the final season, I loved that show.
Speaking of stylized anime, a show that seems to be pretty popular right now is Panty and Stocking with Garterbelt but to tell you the truth, I just don't find it funny. The animation and style is splendid to look at, of course, but it seems the jokes are just "hey look this girl's a ho and this other girl loves sweets, OH WOMEN!" and then the rest are poorly placed sex jokes and cursing. I dunno, bro.
But yes I think it's worth it for the animation, if I remove the subs I can tolerate it more. (this is the one time I'm hoping they dub an anime and actually FIX IT)
Yeah, I kinda feel the same, really. It's like they're trying reeeeaally hard to be American, and in order to do that, they made their characters really stereotyped and one-dimensional. But I mean, even the Powerpuff Girls had more dimension than The Smart One, The Innocent One, and The Tomboy One.
Gainax is good about having series with varied and unique art styles, but the substance sometimes...well, when I watch something it either has to entertain me or make me think and many times their shows do neither for me.
Gurren Lagann is....alright. It was weird, because I'm a HUGE giant mecha anime fan (I think it springs from my long love affair with Kaiju and Sentai material) yet Gurren Lagann just couldn't hold my focus. It might have been because I saw GL right after coming off of the amazing yet underrated RahXephon, but overall I just, I don't know, I lost interest about half way through the series. I keep telling myself I should go back to it, but I get distracted by other anime like Baccano! or Kuroshitsuji.
I guess where I stand at the moment with is is this: Gurren Lagann is beautiful and its fights are well choreographed and a joy to watch, it was just an exhausting series for me. Plus it's not Neon Genesis Evangelion, which wins it an instant 150 points in my book. *ducks inevitable fruit to be thrown by EVA fans*
Gurren Lagann is....alright. It was weird, because I'm a HUGE giant mecha anime fan (I think it springs from my long love affair with Kaiju and Sentai material) yet Gurren Lagann just couldn't hold my focus. It might have been because I saw GL right after coming off of the amazing yet underrated RahXephon, but overall I just, I don't know, I lost interest about half way through the series. I keep telling myself I should go back to it, but I get distracted by other anime like Baccano! or Kuroshitsuji.
I guess where I stand at the moment with is is this: Gurren Lagann is beautiful and its fights are well choreographed and a joy to watch, it was just an exhausting series for me. Plus it's not Neon Genesis Evangelion, which wins it an instant 150 points in my book. *ducks inevitable fruit to be thrown by EVA fans*
Wait, you haven't finished Gurren Lagann?
...
You should finish Gurren Lagann.
And I am completely used to people hating on Evangelion. In fact, it's starting to get to the point where people could say it's underrated.
And I am completely used to people hating on Evangelion. In fact, it's starting to get to the point where people could say it's underrated.
I've always been under the impression that more people like EVA than disliked it. Maybe it's the people I hang out with.
I hate on it because had bad plot and characterization. I've sat through ALL of the EVA stuff though, so I feel sort of legitimized in my griping. If you enjoy it, however, more power to you. I don't think less of you for doing so. My tastes in anime are, for the most part, pretty niche (stuff like Kino's Journey, Rune Soldier, RahXephon and Black Lagoon) so I know my tastes are generally off of the normal viewing radar.
And I am completely used to people hating on Evangelion. In fact, it's starting to get to the point where people could say it's underrated.
I'd still love to see an analytical post from you about Eva, because I don't care for it but you do seem to know what you're talking about in terms of your thoughts on it, so I'm sure I'd find it to be an interesting read.
I've had to sit through a very long vocal rant from someone in the 2D lab because we were making small talk and I said I didn't like Evangelion when asked about my tastes. That was not very pleasant.
That dude didn't even ask about one thing that wasn't Japanese. Only Avatar. (The Last Airbender)
I'd still love to see an analytical post from you about Eva, because I don't care for it but you do seem to know what you're talking about in terms of your thoughts on it, so I'm sure I'd find it to be an interesting read.
Yeeeeah, honestly, the issue is that I've been really busy with schoolwork, and if I wanted to fully explain my thoughts on Evangelion, I would take forever. I'll get to that eventually, though, I promise!
And I'm not saying that Evangelion still doesn't have its fans, because it definitely does, but I imagine it's probably smaller than how it used to be due to shifting tastes in anime, so in return the fans tend to be VERY vocal about how amazing it is. I will have to say that even a lot of the fans tend to miss the point of Evangelion, though.
EDIT: As proof for how small the fanbase is, how many people other than me on this forum will openly admit they like Evangelion?
I'll give Eva one thing: I'd take it ANY DAY over the paint-by-numbers Shonen, shojo, and weird sex fetish stuff that has taken over the american anime industry lately.
I always just thought it was popular because it has that "foreign = exotic" thing going for it, since I guess people are used to generalizing American animation as one thing, and see that anime is different, I guess for the usually more serious plots and more detailed (but less animated) style, so they turn to that.
Then again, I'm not a big anime fan so I can't really say what the big appeal is.
Oh, I've got nothing against Anime, I just don't understand why it's so popular if what I've heard of it is true.
Personally I got into anime because the fare was a bit darker and more sophisticated than american cartoons at the time. I started out on early anime fare though: Robotech, Record of Lodoss War, the 1970s Cyborg 009, Battle of the Planets and Space Battleship Yamato. Also in there was some early anime film stuff like Nausicaä and the Valley of the Wind. It was just...very different. I mean, for example, Robotech is a space opera about an intergalactic war where people, civilizations and often whole planets are destroyed. It pulls no punches and I really liked that.
Since then I've remained a bit niche in my anime tastes, preferring heavily story based or cerebral sorts of anime, so I can't really speak to why it's popular at large. I can only give my reason for staying with it and that is simply that anime, when done well, can be a fantastic medium for story telling and, unlike western animation, has very few qualms about going into some very mature themes.
That's not to say that western animation won't touch on serious subjects, it's just there's a certain mentality in the west that animation is for kids, and that will always limit it to an extent.
Wait, what? Cite your sources! It's my most favourite anime ever. Except, perhaps, for Outlaw Star... Maybe Trigun. Or FLCL. Ok, that's my shortlist at least.
PecanBlue has the right of it -- the grass is always greener on the other side, right? However, anime is also popular because there are a wider variety of genres and stories available, so logically more people would be able to find something they like about it. That isn't to say that American animation can't be like that, but because in America it's usually a more expensive process than live-action, mainstream studios try to play it safe for the most part. In Japan, animators are severely underpaid, so it's usually actually cheaper to animate a story than to shoot it in real life. I guarantee you that if shows like Lost, Firefly, or 24 were created in Japan, they would be anime, and vice-versa with Cowboy Bebop, Baccano, or Monster. Of course, it also helps that in Japan, comics are widely-recognized as something more than nerdy picture books, so anime has that to support it.
Also, even anime shows meant for a preteen audience like Naruto or Sailor Moon aren't afraid to tackle subjects like loss and death, and even if it's done kinda cheesily and it isn't all that deep, I think a lot of kids appreciate not being talked down to about it. So yeah!
And Comrade, here. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
Ah. What I meant is the ending of the original TV series was just awful. Such a let down. As a whole, I loved the series. It's just that last, terrible episode...
Doesn't Ireland count as a part of Europe? I mean, it's an island, but it's on the continental shelf and all... I guess what I'm saying is - glass houses, man. Glass houses.
Doesn't Ireland count as a part of Europe? I mean, it's an island, but it's on the continental shelf and all... I guess what I'm saying is - glass houses, man. Glass houses.
Nah, there's mainland Europe, and then us and the UK. We're European and all, untill it's not convienent, then we pretend we don't know what those crazy hoors on the continent are up to
I just had to ask, is anyone here NOT that excited about Tangled? I feel like the only one, in fact I feel like it's being too overrated before it even comes out, and that will ruin it for me.
People are saying "this is quite the achievement because they managed to make it look like a 2D style in 3D" but I... Don't see it? It looks like an ordinary, cartoony 3D flick to me. Don't get me wrong, it looks gorgeous and that hair, wow, (I even bought the art book already, I can't resist dat Glen Keane) but it doesn't look like anything different, special or revolutionary about 3D animation. If this is how a 2D style translates to 3D, then I've seen it several times. If they wanted a "2D style" why not make it... You know, 2D? I don't know, is it just me?
Also, I've heard the story is typical, predictable Disney princess-type stuff, which is all fine and good for kids, but if it's true, that also doesn't make it any step-up for Disney. But whatever, for that I'll reserve judgment for when I see it.
I just had to ask, is anyone here NOT that excited about Tangled? I feel like the only one, in fact I feel like it's being too overrated before it even comes out, and that will ruin it for me.
I take it you don't follow Cartoon Brew? Heh. Personally, I'm not all that excited for it either, but then again, I wasn't excited for The Princess and the Frog and I ended up loving it, so ehn. I can see why people are excited for the look though - it's not so much about it looking 2D as it is about having a painting come to life in 3D. Whether or not they're successful about it is debatable, though.
I do, actually. People's bickering over that review is what made me want to post this here, because I'm sure if I would have said this where the article was being discussed I would have been jumped.
I can see why people are excited for the look though - it's not so much about it looking 2D as it is about having a painting come to life in 3D. Whether or not they're successful about it is debatable, though.
Yeah, that's pretty much what I mean. I was very excited about it when we were told it would look like The Swing, but then, like Rather Dashing said, actual footage was released and I didn't see any resemblance. It pretty much looks like any ordinary 3D movie, (with the 2D anatomical style thrown in, of course, but other 3D movies have their own unique style that would also translate well into 2D) and I don't know how it could warrant as a "painting in 3D" anymore.
I just had to ask, is anyone here NOT that excited about Tangled?
Honestly it seems sort of...generic to me. It seems like they're taking a page out of the Dreamworks book of turning fairy tale roles on it's head, which isn't a bad thing as Dreamworks has done it fantastically well. However, after Enchanted did such a knock out job of doing the same thing, though more specifically with the concept of the Disney Princess, I can't help but feel like Tangled is a step down. Nothing really feels all that unique about it, at least as far as the trailers are concerned.
However, I'm willing to hold off judgement until the thing is out. I mean, I've gone into movies I was pretty sure I'd hate and found I really liked them, so who knows, Disney might manage to surprise me.
I just had to ask, is anyone here NOT that excited about Tangled?
I'm not super excited about Tangled either, tbh. Then again, I've only seen one trailer (the first one, I assume), and it didn't really stand out to me. I've never especially cared for Disney princess movies, so I assumed Tangled would be about par for the course. It could always end up surprisingly good, I suppose, but somehow I doubt it's going deviate from the Disney norm that much.
On a somewhat related note: what about claymation/stop motion animation? Any fans? Wallace and Gromit is my childhood; I just love them. And I watched a claymation movie called Mary and Max a few days ago, and it was just... wow. I didn't know anything about it before I went into it, and it really surprised me by being very, very funny, clever, and also extremely touching. Definitely worth a watch.
On a somewhat related note: what about claymation/stop motion animation? Any fans? Wallace and Gromit is my childhood; I just love them. And I watched a claymation movie called Mary and Max a few days ago, and it was just... wow. I didn't know anything about it before I went into it, and it really surprised me by being very, very funny, clever, and also extremely touching. Definitely worth a watch.
I love claymation, as silly as it can look at times. I still remember watching Gumby growing up when Nickelodeon used to run it in the afternoons. I always thought it was a bit silly but it did a lot of things you didn't see in other shows.
Granted some claymation (like the Kraken in the original Clash of the Titans doesn't hold up in the intervening years, but many of times it's a wonderfully whimsical way to tell a story.
Comments
Depends. I think ultimately in my mind story takes precedence over style, though a truly terrible aesthetic can completely ruin that. I suppose I have a slight preference for 2D animation simply because of three factors:
- It tends to hold up better over time.
- There can be more stylistic variation without running the risk of dropping into that uncanny valley that CGI tends to fall into more often than not.
- 2D just seems less noticeable. That probably sounds like a criticism, but it's not. Art and stylistic choices for a movie or cartoon are to move the story forward and present a certain visual setting. Animation is the backdrop to good story and if you're not paying attention to how good the art is, then that means you're absorbed in the story. 3D I ALWAYS notice, meaning that it never seems like a totally integrated part of the story-telling experience.
This is not to say that I dislike 3D because I'm a huge fan of the Pixar films and early 3D shows like Reboot. It's just...I don't know, 2D works a bit more for me as a viewer.
w00t, a fellow ReBoot fan! Did you hear that the current owners of the IP recently announced that they'll be releasing a DVD box set of the whole series? Hasn't been any more word on releasing a new series though, but given the way it was going, that's maybe for the best.
As far as 2D vs 3D goes, it really doesn't make that big a difference to me as long as the story's good and it's well-made. Cheap CGI looks bad, but so does cheap 2D animation.
I hadn't heard that, but YES! FINALLY! I've been waiting for a ReBoot box set for years. That makes me very, very happy.
Yeah, I kinda feel the same, really. It's like they're trying reeeeaally hard to be American, and in order to do that, they made their characters really stereotyped and one-dimensional. But I mean, even the Powerpuff Girls had more dimension than The Smart One, The Innocent One, and The Tomboy One.
Not even Gurren Lagann?
Gurren Lagann is....alright. It was weird, because I'm a HUGE giant mecha anime fan (I think it springs from my long love affair with Kaiju and Sentai material) yet Gurren Lagann just couldn't hold my focus. It might have been because I saw GL right after coming off of the amazing yet underrated RahXephon, but overall I just, I don't know, I lost interest about half way through the series. I keep telling myself I should go back to it, but I get distracted by other anime like Baccano! or Kuroshitsuji.
I guess where I stand at the moment with is is this: Gurren Lagann is beautiful and its fights are well choreographed and a joy to watch, it was just an exhausting series for me. Plus it's not Neon Genesis Evangelion, which wins it an instant 150 points in my book. *ducks inevitable fruit to be thrown by EVA fans*
Wait, you haven't finished Gurren Lagann?
...
You should finish Gurren Lagann.
And I am completely used to people hating on Evangelion. In fact, it's starting to get to the point where people could say it's underrated.
I've always been under the impression that more people like EVA than disliked it. Maybe it's the people I hang out with.
I hate on it because had bad plot and characterization. I've sat through ALL of the EVA stuff though, so I feel sort of legitimized in my griping. If you enjoy it, however, more power to you. I don't think less of you for doing so. My tastes in anime are, for the most part, pretty niche (stuff like Kino's Journey, Rune Soldier, RahXephon and Black Lagoon) so I know my tastes are generally off of the normal viewing radar.
That dude didn't even ask about one thing that wasn't Japanese. Only Avatar. (The Last Airbender)
Yeeeeah, honestly, the issue is that I've been really busy with schoolwork, and if I wanted to fully explain my thoughts on Evangelion, I would take forever. I'll get to that eventually, though, I promise!
And I'm not saying that Evangelion still doesn't have its fans, because it definitely does, but I imagine it's probably smaller than how it used to be due to shifting tastes in anime, so in return the fans tend to be VERY vocal about how amazing it is. I will have to say that even a lot of the fans tend to miss the point of Evangelion, though.
EDIT: As proof for how small the fanbase is, how many people other than me on this forum will openly admit they like Evangelion?
Only if you genuinely want to know and aren't out to start a fight.
ME!
What do I win?
Can I be a social outcast mech pilot now?
Wait what. I thought you didn't like Evangelion!
Oh, I've got nothing against Anime, I just don't understand why it's so popular if what I've heard of it is true.
Then again, I'm not a big anime fan so I can't really say what the big appeal is.
Personally I got into anime because the fare was a bit darker and more sophisticated than american cartoons at the time. I started out on early anime fare though: Robotech, Record of Lodoss War, the 1970s Cyborg 009, Battle of the Planets and Space Battleship Yamato. Also in there was some early anime film stuff like Nausicaä and the Valley of the Wind. It was just...very different. I mean, for example, Robotech is a space opera about an intergalactic war where people, civilizations and often whole planets are destroyed. It pulls no punches and I really liked that.
Since then I've remained a bit niche in my anime tastes, preferring heavily story based or cerebral sorts of anime, so I can't really speak to why it's popular at large. I can only give my reason for staying with it and that is simply that anime, when done well, can be a fantastic medium for story telling and, unlike western animation, has very few qualms about going into some very mature themes.
That's not to say that western animation won't touch on serious subjects, it's just there's a certain mentality in the west that animation is for kids, and that will always limit it to an extent.
...wow, this turned a bit blathery, sorry.
Wait, what? Cite your sources! It's my most favourite anime ever. Except, perhaps, for Outlaw Star... Maybe Trigun. Or FLCL. Ok, that's my shortlist at least.
Also, even anime shows meant for a preteen audience like Naruto or Sailor Moon aren't afraid to tackle subjects like loss and death, and even if it's done kinda cheesily and it isn't all that deep, I think a lot of kids appreciate not being talked down to about it. So yeah!
And Comrade, here. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
Rather Dashing, I'm curious. What other anime do you like other than The Tatami Galaxy?
Kamui no Ken
Paranoia Agent
Serial Experiments Lain
Wings of Honneamise
Grave of the Fireflies
Barefoot Gen
Fist of the North Star film(Manga most of the way for this one, but this film tickles my fancy)
Robot Carnival
Cowboy Bebop
Boogiepop Phantom
I also have a couple guilty pleasures, like Dragonball(which I love far more than I should) and Crest of the Stars.
Also, while it's not an anime, I feel I really should mention Parasyte as well.
But the second I do i'll be sure to let you all know what I think, so that you may all not care what I think
Doesn't Ireland count as a part of Europe? I mean, it's an island, but it's on the continental shelf and all... I guess what I'm saying is - glass houses, man. Glass houses.
I'm not from Europe! Hah! Get to it. Don't make me sic the leeches on you!
Nah, there's mainland Europe, and then us and the UK. We're European and all, untill it's not convienent, then we pretend we don't know what those crazy hoors on the continent are up to
Wtf, I thought you were Dutch or something! This changes everything about the recommendation i'm afraid, no dice Slawful
I'm flattered you thought I was Dutch. I can see how you would be very put off to find out I'm not.
People are saying "this is quite the achievement because they managed to make it look like a 2D style in 3D" but I... Don't see it? It looks like an ordinary, cartoony 3D flick to me. Don't get me wrong, it looks gorgeous and that hair, wow, (I even bought the art book already, I can't resist dat Glen Keane) but it doesn't look like anything different, special or revolutionary about 3D animation. If this is how a 2D style translates to 3D, then I've seen it several times. If they wanted a "2D style" why not make it... You know, 2D? I don't know, is it just me?
Also, I've heard the story is typical, predictable Disney princess-type stuff, which is all fine and good for kids, but if it's true, that also doesn't make it any step-up for Disney. But whatever, for that I'll reserve judgment for when I see it.
I take it you don't follow Cartoon Brew? Heh. Personally, I'm not all that excited for it either, but then again, I wasn't excited for The Princess and the Frog and I ended up loving it, so ehn. I can see why people are excited for the look though - it's not so much about it looking 2D as it is about having a painting come to life in 3D. Whether or not they're successful about it is debatable, though.
...I'm....not really seeing what they were talking about.
I do, actually. People's bickering over that review is what made me want to post this here, because I'm sure if I would have said this where the article was being discussed I would have been jumped.
Yeah, that's pretty much what I mean. I was very excited about it when we were told it would look like The Swing, but then, like Rather Dashing said, actual footage was released and I didn't see any resemblance. It pretty much looks like any ordinary 3D movie, (with the 2D anatomical style thrown in, of course, but other 3D movies have their own unique style that would also translate well into 2D) and I don't know how it could warrant as a "painting in 3D" anymore.
Honestly it seems sort of...generic to me. It seems like they're taking a page out of the Dreamworks book of turning fairy tale roles on it's head, which isn't a bad thing as Dreamworks has done it fantastically well. However, after Enchanted did such a knock out job of doing the same thing, though more specifically with the concept of the Disney Princess, I can't help but feel like Tangled is a step down. Nothing really feels all that unique about it, at least as far as the trailers are concerned.
However, I'm willing to hold off judgement until the thing is out. I mean, I've gone into movies I was pretty sure I'd hate and found I really liked them, so who knows, Disney might manage to surprise me.
I'm not super excited about Tangled either, tbh. Then again, I've only seen one trailer (the first one, I assume), and it didn't really stand out to me. I've never especially cared for Disney princess movies, so I assumed Tangled would be about par for the course. It could always end up surprisingly good, I suppose, but somehow I doubt it's going deviate from the Disney norm that much.
On a somewhat related note: what about claymation/stop motion animation? Any fans? Wallace and Gromit is my childhood; I just love them. And I watched a claymation movie called Mary and Max a few days ago, and it was just... wow. I didn't know anything about it before I went into it, and it really surprised me by being very, very funny, clever, and also extremely touching. Definitely worth a watch.
I love claymation, as silly as it can look at times. I still remember watching Gumby growing up when Nickelodeon used to run it in the afternoons. I always thought it was a bit silly but it did a lot of things you didn't see in other shows.
Granted some claymation (like the Kraken in the original Clash of the Titans doesn't hold up in the intervening years, but many of times it's a wonderfully whimsical way to tell a story.