For one your post in its entirety and reactions like it to any person daring to not adore this movie is one of my first problems with this movie. If you dislike it, if you have a differing opinion about it, you're automatically a moron. No matter what you know. You could praise Casablanca until you're practically jerking off, you could marvel at the technical beauty and spectacle of Brazil, and you could praise and applaud Sergio Leone's beautiful cinematography until you're blue in the face. But once you dare to do anything but lovingly idolize Kane you're a bluthering nincompoop. When people begin to tell you what to think about a film you lose all personal connection to it.
If you look back, I actually didn't say any of those things. I didn't say you were a nincompoop, a moron, or an illiterate doofus. Whether or not I think those things was left entirely private. As it is, I'm honestly not sure if you are to be honest. Your taste in art isn't the matter of question here, it's the brazen, baseless attitude you took with smacking it down for the sake of bluster and clout.
Any point can be stated like that.
Can be, shouldn't. There's no value in thoughts backed up by little or nothing, and there's little conversational value to them other than to provoke a reaction.
I didn't say it sucks. I rated it based on my personal evaluation of it based on how much I liked it. I didn't like it. I didn't enjoy it. I have problems with it. And I can still praise it for the things it did well.
quote]Except me.
Well, aren't you a very special individualistic flower child.
I thought it was because people have differing opinions. I'll have to change my name to Citizen Kane Fan #2556584848954 or perhaps I'll be shot at sunrise for treason.
On such a wide scale? I'm just saying that, when such a wide range of directors, cinematographers, film critics, and pretty much every talent in filmmaking has something great to say about Citizen Kane and its influence on their work, the thing at least deserves a high score for technical and historical merit.
And again with the martyr complex, Christ.
That's just hilariously over-exaggerated.
I'm saying that people in the film industry who know their shit, who can back up their viewpoints logically using objective standards of craftsmanship say this is one of the greatest films ever made, if not the best film ever made. If you're going to give that thing a score of 4/11, an argument that simply isn't made by people who know what they're talking about, then you have to back it up somehow. I'm not saying everyone who says Citizen Kane is great has clout, they could just be going with the flow of what everyone else says, but if you are going to go in and say a damn-near universally critically acclaimed and historically important film is crap, you have to back that up with some kind of logic when it comes to composition, execution, writing, SOMETHING. And don't say you don't say it's crap, because you do. You gave it a 45% score, you failed Citizen Kane, and I'm not completely sure you didn't just do so to stir up shit.
As a book I would just enjoy it much more than watching it, regardless of how well the film is built. This particular thing just comes down to enjoyment. I would rather spend my time reading the story of Citizen Kane than watching it.
And from a technical perspective, you lose an insane amount of value and craftsmanship when you transition from film to book. When someone says something would work "better as a book", it's not generally due to some arbitrary idea that certain ideas should be read. It's based on the limitations of the film itself, that the editing, cinematography, acting, something(usually a combination of elements) is lacking that make the film adaptation weaker than the screenplay it is acted from.
I thought that was the point of the whole damn topic. Simple ratings.
In a public forum, which opens them up to public scrutiny and discussion. If you only want a select few people to see and comment on your thoughts, or you don't want to have people comment on them at all, start a blog. Don't share the link, or turn off comments.
Amazing. You're selling it AND telling it.
I don't even know what that means, but I consider it a logical, valid, and backed-up evaluation of the team behind the film, the variety of talents that came to create it, and several points(and certainly not all the possible ones) in its favor in terms of innovation, interdisciplinary collaboration, and historical value.
Screw the AFI. I'm not the AFI.
Aw, cute.
Right. Anyway when I said it was technically skillful, I mean in cinematography, production, acting, music, tone, screenplay, music, atmosphere, art design, etc. That's what the five points was for. Plenty of films are much better.
...and the rest of the points, the rest of them are, what? That's...that's the building blocks of a film. There's literally nothing else, aside from(perhaps) a small variance for personal scrutiny due to no human being seeing any film in a vacuum of experience, but that variance shouldn't be 6 points wide. =/
Kane isn't the only movie Toland did work on. His work on the Grapes of Wrath and Wuthering Heights is fantastic and those are better films.
He worked on all of them, delivering his technical expertise to all of them, and providing a valuable point in the favor of all of them, yes.
However, I've decided to change my score.
Citizen Kane - 1/11
Because now that you've told me what my opinion about the film should be, preached me a sermon, labeled me as a film heretic, talked down to me as if I don't already know the film's history as if you're the most righteous knowledgeable encyclopedia on the subject (I knew everything you preached to me about the films production already btw because I wanted to seriously evaluate every aspect of this well-praised film before coming to a serious conclusion on rating it and I still don't know all of my reasons hence why I said it will take me months to figure them out) and the champion for Kane's rights plus self-proclaimed biggest Kane fan, etc. I wouldn't be able to enjoy the film again if it spit gold at me. I'm not going to watch it again ever. But hey. I guess it's my loss. And don't come at me claiming I'm venomous or antagonistic. You started this argument, not me. You're the one with a spear up your ass because I don't like your beloved film, and who came to me about it with your heroic crusade. I rated it how I thought it was fair after a lot of serious deliberation. I gave it that courtesy because of it's reputation, and because I wanted to be fair. And I'm not sorry in the slightest. I'm sure that while my big bad 45% score is chomping at Kane's heels, Citizen Kane can rest easy knowing that the entire rest of the world is soothingly licking it's feet clean from my drivel. Oh wait, it doesn't care. It's a movie.
Seriously this whole thing can be summed up with "Secret Fawful has a martyr complex". I seriously never called you a rube, or a barbarian, or some sort of cinema antichrist. You made that up! You made the whole thing up! Instead of noting that your thoughts were simply not backed up in any way whatsoever, and that you seem to be saying loud boisterous things just to stir up shit, you take personal insult to you as a person out of nowhere. Your score-lowering and big arrogant talk screaming in the completely wrong direction comes off as immature, ill-informed, and overall just badly worded as a whole. Are the views invalid? Hell if I know, they're never explained, because you're too busy nailing yourself to a fucking cross.
No I haven't. I'd like to see you prove it or are you just assuming I don't based on my opinion of this one film like all the other pretentious pricks?
You know, you remind me of the Nostalgia Critic in that he knows half his shit but fills in the rest with pseudo logic. The only difference between you and him is that he knows how to presents his ideas and he does it only for show. I mean, pfft, I guess you might be doing it all for show for all that matters. I don't know. You come off as constantly having something to prove to people without actually providing what you want to prove other than "I'm right you're wrong and stupid along with it".
The very fact that you downed your score just because of RD's post shows that you have a certain level of immaturity and mind set that you are the best that prevents you from forming constructive conversation. I like MGrant's post. It was thoughtful and constructive to the conversation, even if I didn't agree with her opinion. You, on the other hand, have this ongoing issue of antagonizing anyone who doesn't agree with you and making yourself out to be some sort of martyr.
I'll be perfectly honest. My post was only half serious in itself and was honestly just joking around. In the end it came off as being a serious antagonistic post and for that I apologize. I will not lie, I also have some of the issues stated above that needs to be tended to. I pledge to be better at this. That doesn't change any of the above statements, as I do feel this needed addressing.
This sort of attitude really does hurt community moral and consistently doing it only encourages more people to do so until all we do is fling poop at each other and never get anything done.
Also, Avi's right. My mom taught me when I was little that when I was to observe art, I could do it on two levels: whether I liked based on face value or to pick it apart on a technical standpoint. She said that the second one was more important. Many folk I've spoken with have complained that the latter takes all joy away from the piece. Quite the contrary. There's no greater personal joy than figuring out how something works, in my opinion. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't. I don't necessarily have to like Citizen Kane on a face to face value in order to enjoy picking it apart and figuring out what's good about it.
and before anyone says anything, im a complete amateur when it comes to art and i don't claim to be a know-all individual when it comes to such.
Martyr complex? Stirring up shit? Didn't explain my reasons at all? Immature? Pseudo logic? Unable to form constructive criticism? Hurting the community? Illogical? All for show? Flower child? What the shitting hell?
How in the hell am I supposed to reply to that? How am I not supposed to be even a little bit insulted by that? How am I not supposed to feel ganged up on? How am I not to feel that that's getting a bit personal?
What..I...What would you have me do? Not say what I honestly think?
It's my fault? I don't like Citizen Kane. How many ways can I explain that? How many reasons can I give to satisfy? That I didn't enjoy the movie? That it was a film about a man and supporting characters I cared nothing for? Isn't that enough? Should I have never said it in the first place? This topic was made so people could rate movies. How is it fair that you so vehemently oppose mine, and then blame that and everything that comes from it on me? This isn't about being a martyr. It's about being entitled to my opinion. It's about defending my opinion. If I didn't respect you or I thought you were stupid, I wouldn't pay any attention to what you're saying. I didn't post my rating to stir up shit. To me Citizen Kane is just a movie, like any other. It can be viewed, evaluated, studied, loved, or hated. To you guys its something more apparently. I've respected your opinions on that much. So goddammit why can't you respect mine.
And taking the points all the way down to one had a specific point. There was a specific reason. It was because of your unreasonability. Because as soon as this film was brought up the lions are at my door and that leaves a bad taste in my mouth no matter what it is, so much to the point that it brought me to complete hatred of the film itself. My original score was thought out-
Six points-
1. I didn't enjoy the film overall
2. I didn't like Kane or care about Kane
3. I didn't like or care about the supporting characters
4. I didn't care about the meaning of the words Rosebud, partially because it had been spoiled for me long ago
5. The movie as a whole left no lasting impression on me and I felt no personal connection to it.
6. I had no desire after the film was over to see it again.
The five points for why I liked it.
1. Excellent atmosphere and art design
2. Excellent acting
3. The first half of the movie was actually interesting, even though it went downhill.
4. Excellent music
5. Excellent directing and cinematography
Martyr complex? Stirring up shit? Didn't explain my reasons at all? Immature? Pseudo logic? Unable to form constructive criticism? Hurting the community? Illogical? All for show? Flower child? What the shitting hell?
Well, yeah, now that you've fussed about it. Maybe the reaction was a bit exaggerated, but only because what I got back seemed so out of line with what I'd actually said.
How in the hell am I supposed to reply to that? How am I not supposed to be even a little bit insulted by that? How am I not supposed to feel ganged up on? How am I not to feel that that's getting a bit personal?
I'm sorry if you feel personally attacked as a human being. I might have challenged your viewpoint, challenged the manner in which you expressed it, and challenged any extraneous assumptions that you may have made, and your somewhat arrogant behavior following your original post(not the review itself), but if I ever attacked you as a person then I would like to take the opportunity to extend an apology. Sincerely, I would.
What..I...What would you have me do? Not say what I honestly think?
No, I'd have you at least explain controversial opinions, though. It seems like everyone should give themselves a proper explanation and evaluation of their own opinions, and it's best for others if you provide it is well. I don't like threads that are just thumbs up and/or thumbs down, yes or no, etc, and if we're going to do a list of reactions I'd like them to be at least well thought-out and expressed.
If I didn't respect you or I thought you were stupid, I wouldn't pay any attention to what you're saying. I didn't post my rating to stir up shit. To me Citizen Kane is just a movie, like any other. It can be viewed, evaluated, studied, loved, or hated. To you guys its something more apparently. I've respected your opinions on that much. So goddammit why can't you respect mine.
I'm cutting out some stuff, hope you don't mind, but I think this gets to the crux of everything you're saying: I don't disrespect the idea of disliking Citizen Kane so much as I dislike the idea of going into a movie rating thread and saying, of one of the most critically acclaimed, innovative, and culturally signifigant films especially, "45%, fail, don't like it". A three short-sentence blurb comes off really arrogant and antagonistic, especially due to the context of the thing, whether or not it was intended.
And taking the points all the way down to one had a specific point. There was a specific reason. It was because of your unreasonability. Because as soon as this film was brought up the lions are at my door and that leaves a bad taste in my mouth no matter what it is, so much to the point that it brought me to complete hatred of the film itself. My original score was thought out-
I don't remember sending any lions. Must've been someone else. Sorry for the confusion.
Six points-
1. I didn't enjoy the film overall
2. I didn't like Kane or care about Kane
3. I didn't like or care about the supporting characters
4. I didn't care about the meaning of the words Rosebud, partially because it had been spoiled for me long ago
5. The movie as a whole left no lasting impression on me and I felt no personal connection to it.
6. I had no desire after the film was over to see it again.
The five points for why I liked it.
1. Excellent atmosphere and art design
2. Excellent acting
3. The first half of the movie was actually interesting, even though it went downhill.
4. Excellent music
5. Excellent directing and cinematography
Is that enough for you vultures?
Well, actually, yes. I feel like, when watching it, you missed the point, and I feel like I disagree with the way you score and evaluate things, but that's fine too.
I dunno if "vulture" is an accurate descriptor, but I'll go with it. Vultures are pretty cool and efficient little critters, really. I assume you were going more for the "circling and watching for weakness/death" thing, which would go with the victim theme, though generally the vulture actually is generally going to consume something taken down by an entirely disparate force(even internal ones, like certain neurosis that require a person to be a constant victim of some sort of universal abuse).
Well, yeah, now that you've fussed about it. Maybe the reaction was a bit exaggerated, but only because what I got back seemed so out of line with what I'd actually said.
To be fair some of it isn't wrong. I do use pseudo logic a LOT, (and usually I say the first thing to come into my head which comes back to bite me in the ass a lot) and the Nostalgia Critic comparison was probably accurate. And I probably tend to exaggerate myself and extend my quirks beyond their norm since I'm much more subdued in real life than I am on here. I am also immature, but I tend to think most people at the age of nineteen are, and the ones who aren't are outside the norm. Or I'm one of the crazy ones. The rest is bullshit. Anyway, all of this stuff you and Tope evaluated of me puts me in one hell of a negative light, and seeing as I'm someone who is obsessively concerned with his reputation and appearance, it's easy enough to embarrass me and put me way off by doing that. Especially since most of it just isn't true.
I'm sorry if you feel personally attacked as a human being. I might have challenged your viewpoint, challenged the manner in which you expressed it, and challenged any extraneous assumptions that you may have made, and your somewhat arrogant behavior following your original post(not the review itself), but if I ever attacked you as a person then I would like to take the opportunity to extend an apology. Sincerely, I would.
Not attacked as a human being, but read above. To be specific, I had more of an issue with what Tope was saying than with what you were saying, until you decided I had a martyr complex, which sounds to me like some really screwed up weird psycho shit.
No, I'd have you at least explain controversial opinions, though. It seems like everyone should give themselves a proper explanation and evaluation of their own opinions, and it's best for others if you provide it is well. I don't like threads that are just thumbs up and/or thumbs down, yes or no, etc, and if we're going to do a list of reactions I'd like them to be at least well thought-out and expressed.
That's why I said the it'll take me months part. I just posted my current rating. After all of this shit that made me sorry I ever made this topic at all, it's going to be a long time before I look at Citizen Kane without thinking "oh great it's that damn film I looked like an ass over; get it away from me, man! away you fascist!".
I'm cutting out some stuff, hope you don't mind, but I think this gets to the crux of everything you're saying: I don't disrespect the idea of disliking Citizen Kane so much as I dislike the idea of going into a movie rating thread and saying, of one of the most critically acclaimed, innovative, and culturally significant films especially, "45%, fail, don't like it". A three short-sentence blurb comes off really arrogant and antagonistic, especially due to the context of the thing, whether or not it was intended.
I don't get that. I never figured we were taking this topic so seriously until this hell began. My post was intended casually. I put excessive thought into it, but only for my own benefit. Then again most of the time I am arrogant. I was originally just going to post the clapping gif to mock you but I happen to have a handicap that prevents me from acting that much like an asshole to people; that handicap is respect for other people.
I don't remember sending any lions. Must've been someone else. Sorry for the confusion.
No you're the lion. And Tope. You're ravenous beasts.
I feel like I disagree with the way you score and evaluate things, but that's fine too.
I don't know, I make up this shit as I go. I never rated things from 1-11 until I made this topic. It happened to be a really convenient way to categorize what I liked and didn't like about movies. I would have extended it if I needed to and then you would have had two movies going up to number 11 with Citizen Kane going up to like 15.
I dunno if "vulture" is an accurate descriptor, but I'll go with it. Vultures are pretty cool and efficient little critters, really. I assume you were going more for the "circling and watching for weakness/death" thing, which would go with the victim theme, though generally the vulture actually is generally going to consume something taken down by an entirely disparate force(even internal ones, like certain neurosis that require a person to be a constant victim of some sort of universal abuse).
Good lord man its a figure of speech. Wolves then. Replace the vultures with wolves. You're like some sort of logical, rational robot. Good lord, the robot invasion could be upon us yet. My nightmares tonight will consist of the cold, metallic grip of a rather dashing robot holding my head in front of a theater screen playing Citizen Kane for the rest of time, with Giant Tope running the projection and laughing hysterically.
Man, I probabally shouldn't state my opinion on citizen kane then, but I agree with Fawful*. I just felt it wasn't good. Then again, I've never liked any of his works or DW Griffits. Though, like Fawful, I give it the technical props it deserves.
*I've been doing theater classes (both film and stage) for about 5-6 years now.
Good lord man its a figure of speech. Wolves then. Replace the vultures with wolves. You're like some sort of logical, rational robot. Good lord, the robot invasion could be upon us yet. My nightmares tonight will consist of the cold, metallic grip of a rather dashing robot holding my head in front of a theater screen playing Citizen Kane for the rest of time, with Giant Tope running the projection and laughing hysterically.
Can I be making popcorn in the lobby and just kind of chuckling to myself? I'm in a wheelchair, so I'm basically a cyborg right? Anyway, it beats modern Hollywood. Anything past 1995 is almost always drivel.
Can I be making popcorn in the lobby and just kind of chuckling to myself? I'm in a wheelchair, so I'm basically a cyborg right? Anyway, it beats modern Hollywood. Anything past 1995 is almost always drivel.
You're in a wheelchair? I've been making fun of a guy in a wheelchair this whole time? Why didn't anyone tell me? I mean that's just.....
Hey guys. I noticed in the other topic you guys really like Evangelion. So now that I have reached nirvana with my hardcore death metal skydiving jetpack-wearing angel friends, I'm gonna do something extra special just for YOU.
Time to begin the Human Instrumentality Project! Don't worry, I told my new friends humans are good. They're totally for it. Have fun as all physical life ends and you're all united into a single possibly-mindless soul. Gosh you guys are lucky.
Good thing I'm a cyborg, and Dash and Tope are robots. You've doomed most of your (non-angelic) friends and saved your enemies. Ain't that a kick in the head?
Back to the topic, I just watched a movie, JUST FOR YOU GUYS!
Cloudy With a Chance of Meatballs 6/10 (I'm so disappointed with this movie. Great style of 3D animation, great concept, great use of color, great character design, but weak plot, weak pacing, mostly predictable, no effective emotion and only funny in very few scenes. Such wasted potential. Maybe I shouldn't be so harsh on it though since it IS a children's movie, I suppose.)
good thing i'm a cyborg, and dash and tope are robots. You've doomed most of your (non-angelic) friends and saved your enemies. Ain't that a kick in the head?
Sure he does. I, someone who actually knows the guy IRL, can totally independently confirm that(oddly enough) he's totally not bullshitting. I know, I know, it's out of character for him, but he at the very least is a bigger fan of the show than I am. Hell, the guy was singing the theme not 3 hours ago.
The Road to El Dorado: 5/10 The last time I saw this was when the thing came out, and I have no idea why I haven't watched it since. It's actually a fairly good film with good humor and good animation. The thing that really drags it down for me is the Elton John musical numbers. The guy went from The Lion King to...This. It's just damn silly and not very well sung. This movie definitely better than I remember, but not as good as other animated films I've seen.
I liked the Sean Connery one. I couldn't watch the animated one without constantly comparing it to the live action movie. Unfortunately, that made me enjoyed the animated one less (I wasn't enjoying it for what it was) but it made me want to watch the live action one again. I only saw it once as a kid.
Whoops, seemed like the mods were pretty busy somewhere else while this discussion exploded. Will "It's only a movie" suffice to bring things back to normal?
The Road to El Dorado: 5/10 The last time I saw this was when the thing came out, and I have no idea why I haven't watched it since. It's actually a fairly good film with good humor and good animation. The thing that really drags it down for me is the Elton John musical numbers. The guy went from The Lion King to...This. It's just damn silly and not very well sung. This movie definitely better than I remember, but not as good as other animated films I've seen.
In my own personal opinion I would give it an 8/10, but it all comes down to the individual person and their tastes. So I am not saying you are wrong, I am just saying what I think.
I really enjoy this movie, and the music as well. Someday out of the Blue is really good, and I have it as an MP3.
I'd probably give El Dorado a 7/10, it was a little poorly executed but it still had a fun plot and the main relationship it revolved around was friendship for once, and of course the animation was great. Prince of Egypt gets a 9.5/10 from me, which is probably still the best (and first!) Dreamworks animation ever. I think El Dorado was the last "good" Dreamworks movie that was made before they went into "okay" territory with all their movies, (though Sinbad and Stallion are at least better in plot than most of their 3D movies) then it got to Kung Fu Panda and went into "good" again, went back to mediocre with Monsters vs. Aliens, and this year both movies got them into "great."
I just hope it keeps up, they might even step up to Pixar's level of popularity which would be awesome because rival competition would produce great movies from both sides.
I'd probably give El Dorado a 7/10, it was a little poorly executed but it still had a fun plot and the main relationship it revolved around was friendship for once, and of course the animation was great. Prince of Egypt gets a 9.5/10 from me, which is probably still the best (and first!) Dreamworks animation ever. I think El Dorado was the last "good" Dreamworks movie that was made before they went into "okay" territory with all their movies, (though Sinbad and Stallion are at least better in plot than most of their 3D movies) then it got to Kung Fu Panda and went into "good" again, went back to mediocre with Monsters vs. Aliens, and this year both movies got them into "great."
I just hope it keeps up, they might even step up to Pixar's level of popularity which would be awesome because rival competition would produce great movies from both sides.
Prince of Egypt gets the same rating from me, actually. gorgeously animated with a truly powerful musical score and a fantastic take on a traditional bible story. I think that's part of the reason I rate Road to El Dorado lower, because when I think of Dreamworks' 2D animation, I think Prince of Egypt.
I don't think Dreamworks will ever be the animation powerhouse Pixar is, but I do think they give Pixar a healthy dose of competition, which is always a good thing.
I liked the Sean Connery one. I couldn't watch the animated one without constantly comparing it to the live action movie. Unfortunately, that made me enjoyed the animated one less (I wasn't enjoying it for what it was) but it made me want to watch the live action one again. I only saw it once as a kid.
Never seen the Sean Connery one. Sounds like I'll have to hunt it down for a look though.
I just watched Megamind, and I have to say; I liked it. While, like most Dreamworks animated films, the pacing felt rushed, it presented ideas far more interesting than those presented in The Incredibles. Now, before you throw pitchforks at me, I must say that I'm not saying it's better than The Incredibles. There were some jokes that didn't work, but overall, it's pretty fun to watch.
Basically, Megamind is to Mark Waid's Incorruptible as The Incredibles is to Watchmen.
So... 8/10
Also, when the hell are we gonna get The Tick's animated movie?!
I don't think Dreamworks will ever be the animation powerhouse Pixar is, but I do think they give Pixar a healthy dose of competition, which is always a good thing.
Well who knows, their movies are getting in the caliber that Pixar's earlier movies were and I actually prefer most of their character animation and design over Pixar's. Toothless and Megamind are especially dynamic and expressive, much more so than any main character Pixar has ever done. It's like, almost anywhere you would pause in a scene with those two you get a face and/or pose full of expression and livelyness. (and to me, Pixar's best character design and animation has been in Wall-E) Of course, I shouldn't even be comparing them since they're so different of styles, but still.
I think I like to rate movies more on actual grades, since I think that suits my opinions best. Pixar has always been in the A's and A plusses to me, (with the exception of Cars and A Bug's Life, which to me get C's or C minuses at best) and Dreamworks has, after Prince of Egypt, (which was an A) tinkered on the C's and D's, sometimes getting an F here and there with movies like Shrek 3, (Kung Fu Panda gets a B minus) but this year they've moved to the B's or B plusses with their two major movies. Not counting Shrek 4, which I assume is bad, though I heard it's better than the third at least. I'll watch it eventually. But anyway, it's possible if they keep it up and learn from what they do right and wrong that they'll move to A's, and that's when they'll be on the level of Pixar for me.
Maybe they won't make as much money and recognition, but if their movies are just as powerful with their emotions as Pixar's are and they reek of actual effort every time, then it's all good with me. Megamind got pretty close, it really tried but, since it was mainly made to be a comedic movie, they couldn't have possibly made it too powerful, but it was still nice and subtle with their sad scenes. That scene in the rain, for example, was fantastic because they actually relied on facial expressions and the general feel of the atmosphere instead of heavy use of words to describe the emotions the character was feeling, which is a first for Dreamworks. The climax scene however, was totally emotional for a completely different reason, I know I got butterflies in my stomach because of it. (the "PRESENTATION!" scene I mean, I can't say anything more than that because it's a spoiler, but people who've seen it will know what I'm talking about)
I don't know what's going to happen though, it seems like it's going to be a slow year next year for both Pixar and Dreamworks, which would be a shame after such a year of good animated movies. I mean, there's Cars 2, which I don't think can possibly be better than the first, which was IMO, the worst movie Pixar has ever done, (not necessarily bad, though) but who knows. And then there's Kung Fu Panda 2. I thought the first one was good, but it wasn't anything spectacular, and if this sequel ends up being better and not another obvious money-milker like Shrek 2 and Madagascar I'll be pleasantly surprised.
I really enjoyed Megamind as well (first movie in a while that I absolutely had to see twice in theaters). I'd probably give it a 9/10 for the same reasons given by everyone else, with the extra point being added for the fact that Hans Zimmer wrote the soundtrack (well, most of it).
(first movie in a while that I absolutely had to see twice in theaters)
Me too, bro. I actually saw Toy Story 3 twice in theaters, once in a normal theater when I was visiting some friends in Orlando and the other in imax 3D when I was back in Miami and my little cousin wanted to see it. I don't think it will get ever old, but the second time in 3D didn't really do anything different for me.
THIS, however. I went to see it with a group from school after our class was done, right on opening day. Our animation teacher wouldn't shut up about this movie, and we were weirded out because it looked like crap from the advertising. I swear he's like a prophet of good animation or something. So we totally went to see it in a normal theater expecting it to be crap, and we were wrong and regretted it. So I said "this must look absolutely fabulous in an imax 3D" and went to see it as such with another group of friends. It was awesome, I fangirled about the "PRESENTATION!" scene twice as hard in 3D.
I should note that, this was in an imax 3D, which looks and sounds better than in a regular 3D screening, as it has a lot more depth and retains the same colors; usually I don't go to see animated movies in a regular 3D theater, it's either in an imax or a regular 2D theater because it's not worth it to lose the color.
I love this movie! Great humour, great acting, great music! The only real problem is that I've seen the film quite a few times now and it's getting to be a bit samey. But that's my fault and not the movies so I shall stick by the 10/10 mark!
I knew I wasn't the only one bothered by the fact that I know that song.
Also, why wouldn't I not count?
Because I'm bitter.
Regarding the Dreamworks/Pixar thing, I still think Pixar tends to make better movies, but Dreamworks is definitely catching up. Frankly, Pixar's future looks kinda grim now with three publicly-announced films in the works and only one of them an original, not-sequel film. But then again, I wasn't impressed by Toy Story 3's trailer, and that movie turned out to be incredible, so who knows?
Comments
Certainly.
If you look back, I actually didn't say any of those things. I didn't say you were a nincompoop, a moron, or an illiterate doofus. Whether or not I think those things was left entirely private. As it is, I'm honestly not sure if you are to be honest. Your taste in art isn't the matter of question here, it's the brazen, baseless attitude you took with smacking it down for the sake of bluster and clout.
Can be, shouldn't. There's no value in thoughts backed up by little or nothing, and there's little conversational value to them other than to provoke a reaction.
Well, aren't you a very special individualistic flower child.
On such a wide scale? I'm just saying that, when such a wide range of directors, cinematographers, film critics, and pretty much every talent in filmmaking has something great to say about Citizen Kane and its influence on their work, the thing at least deserves a high score for technical and historical merit.
And again with the martyr complex, Christ.
I'm saying that people in the film industry who know their shit, who can back up their viewpoints logically using objective standards of craftsmanship say this is one of the greatest films ever made, if not the best film ever made. If you're going to give that thing a score of 4/11, an argument that simply isn't made by people who know what they're talking about, then you have to back it up somehow. I'm not saying everyone who says Citizen Kane is great has clout, they could just be going with the flow of what everyone else says, but if you are going to go in and say a damn-near universally critically acclaimed and historically important film is crap, you have to back that up with some kind of logic when it comes to composition, execution, writing, SOMETHING. And don't say you don't say it's crap, because you do. You gave it a 45% score, you failed Citizen Kane, and I'm not completely sure you didn't just do so to stir up shit.
And from a technical perspective, you lose an insane amount of value and craftsmanship when you transition from film to book. When someone says something would work "better as a book", it's not generally due to some arbitrary idea that certain ideas should be read. It's based on the limitations of the film itself, that the editing, cinematography, acting, something(usually a combination of elements) is lacking that make the film adaptation weaker than the screenplay it is acted from.
In a public forum, which opens them up to public scrutiny and discussion. If you only want a select few people to see and comment on your thoughts, or you don't want to have people comment on them at all, start a blog. Don't share the link, or turn off comments.
I don't even know what that means, but I consider it a logical, valid, and backed-up evaluation of the team behind the film, the variety of talents that came to create it, and several points(and certainly not all the possible ones) in its favor in terms of innovation, interdisciplinary collaboration, and historical value.
Aw, cute.
...and the rest of the points, the rest of them are, what? That's...that's the building blocks of a film. There's literally nothing else, aside from(perhaps) a small variance for personal scrutiny due to no human being seeing any film in a vacuum of experience, but that variance shouldn't be 6 points wide. =/
He worked on all of them, delivering his technical expertise to all of them, and providing a valuable point in the favor of all of them, yes.
Seriously this whole thing can be summed up with "Secret Fawful has a martyr complex". I seriously never called you a rube, or a barbarian, or some sort of cinema antichrist. You made that up! You made the whole thing up! Instead of noting that your thoughts were simply not backed up in any way whatsoever, and that you seem to be saying loud boisterous things just to stir up shit, you take personal insult to you as a person out of nowhere. Your score-lowering and big arrogant talk screaming in the completely wrong direction comes off as immature, ill-informed, and overall just badly worded as a whole. Are the views invalid? Hell if I know, they're never explained, because you're too busy nailing yourself to a fucking cross.
You know, you remind me of the Nostalgia Critic in that he knows half his shit but fills in the rest with pseudo logic. The only difference between you and him is that he knows how to presents his ideas and he does it only for show. I mean, pfft, I guess you might be doing it all for show for all that matters. I don't know. You come off as constantly having something to prove to people without actually providing what you want to prove other than "I'm right you're wrong and stupid along with it".
The very fact that you downed your score just because of RD's post shows that you have a certain level of immaturity and mind set that you are the best that prevents you from forming constructive conversation. I like MGrant's post. It was thoughtful and constructive to the conversation, even if I didn't agree with her opinion. You, on the other hand, have this ongoing issue of antagonizing anyone who doesn't agree with you and making yourself out to be some sort of martyr.
I'll be perfectly honest. My post was only half serious in itself and was honestly just joking around. In the end it came off as being a serious antagonistic post and for that I apologize. I will not lie, I also have some of the issues stated above that needs to be tended to. I pledge to be better at this. That doesn't change any of the above statements, as I do feel this needed addressing.
This sort of attitude really does hurt community moral and consistently doing it only encourages more people to do so until all we do is fling poop at each other and never get anything done.
Also, Avi's right. My mom taught me when I was little that when I was to observe art, I could do it on two levels: whether I liked based on face value or to pick it apart on a technical standpoint. She said that the second one was more important. Many folk I've spoken with have complained that the latter takes all joy away from the piece. Quite the contrary. There's no greater personal joy than figuring out how something works, in my opinion. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't. I don't necessarily have to like Citizen Kane on a face to face value in order to enjoy picking it apart and figuring out what's good about it.
and before anyone says anything, im a complete amateur when it comes to art and i don't claim to be a know-all individual when it comes to such.
How in the hell am I supposed to reply to that? How am I not supposed to be even a little bit insulted by that? How am I not supposed to feel ganged up on? How am I not to feel that that's getting a bit personal?
What..I...What would you have me do? Not say what I honestly think?
It's my fault? I don't like Citizen Kane. How many ways can I explain that? How many reasons can I give to satisfy? That I didn't enjoy the movie? That it was a film about a man and supporting characters I cared nothing for? Isn't that enough? Should I have never said it in the first place? This topic was made so people could rate movies. How is it fair that you so vehemently oppose mine, and then blame that and everything that comes from it on me? This isn't about being a martyr. It's about being entitled to my opinion. It's about defending my opinion. If I didn't respect you or I thought you were stupid, I wouldn't pay any attention to what you're saying. I didn't post my rating to stir up shit. To me Citizen Kane is just a movie, like any other. It can be viewed, evaluated, studied, loved, or hated. To you guys its something more apparently. I've respected your opinions on that much. So goddammit why can't you respect mine.
And taking the points all the way down to one had a specific point. There was a specific reason. It was because of your unreasonability. Because as soon as this film was brought up the lions are at my door and that leaves a bad taste in my mouth no matter what it is, so much to the point that it brought me to complete hatred of the film itself. My original score was thought out-
Six points-
1. I didn't enjoy the film overall
2. I didn't like Kane or care about Kane
3. I didn't like or care about the supporting characters
4. I didn't care about the meaning of the words Rosebud, partially because it had been spoiled for me long ago
5. The movie as a whole left no lasting impression on me and I felt no personal connection to it.
6. I had no desire after the film was over to see it again.
The five points for why I liked it.
1. Excellent atmosphere and art design
2. Excellent acting
3. The first half of the movie was actually interesting, even though it went downhill.
4. Excellent music
5. Excellent directing and cinematography
Is that enough for you vultures?
the last movie that i watched was toy story 3
Is this Hill Valley or Hell?
Opinions.
Why would it be Hill Valley in the first place?
I'm sorry if you feel personally attacked as a human being. I might have challenged your viewpoint, challenged the manner in which you expressed it, and challenged any extraneous assumptions that you may have made, and your somewhat arrogant behavior following your original post(not the review itself), but if I ever attacked you as a person then I would like to take the opportunity to extend an apology. Sincerely, I would.
No, I'd have you at least explain controversial opinions, though. It seems like everyone should give themselves a proper explanation and evaluation of their own opinions, and it's best for others if you provide it is well. I don't like threads that are just thumbs up and/or thumbs down, yes or no, etc, and if we're going to do a list of reactions I'd like them to be at least well thought-out and expressed.
I'm cutting out some stuff, hope you don't mind, but I think this gets to the crux of everything you're saying: I don't disrespect the idea of disliking Citizen Kane so much as I dislike the idea of going into a movie rating thread and saying, of one of the most critically acclaimed, innovative, and culturally signifigant films especially, "45%, fail, don't like it". A three short-sentence blurb comes off really arrogant and antagonistic, especially due to the context of the thing, whether or not it was intended.
I don't remember sending any lions. Must've been someone else. Sorry for the confusion.
Well, actually, yes. I feel like, when watching it, you missed the point, and I feel like I disagree with the way you score and evaluate things, but that's fine too.
I dunno if "vulture" is an accurate descriptor, but I'll go with it. Vultures are pretty cool and efficient little critters, really. I assume you were going more for the "circling and watching for weakness/death" thing, which would go with the victim theme, though generally the vulture actually is generally going to consume something taken down by an entirely disparate force(even internal ones, like certain neurosis that require a person to be a constant victim of some sort of universal abuse).
Not attacked as a human being, but read above. To be specific, I had more of an issue with what Tope was saying than with what you were saying, until you decided I had a martyr complex, which sounds to me like some really screwed up weird psycho shit.
That's why I said the it'll take me months part. I just posted my current rating. After all of this shit that made me sorry I ever made this topic at all, it's going to be a long time before I look at Citizen Kane without thinking "oh great it's that damn film I looked like an ass over; get it away from me, man! away you fascist!".
I don't get that. I never figured we were taking this topic so seriously until this hell began. My post was intended casually. I put excessive thought into it, but only for my own benefit. Then again most of the time I am arrogant. I was originally just going to post the clapping gif to mock you but I happen to have a handicap that prevents me from acting that much like an asshole to people; that handicap is respect for other people.
No you're the lion. And Tope. You're ravenous beasts.
I don't know, I make up this shit as I go. I never rated things from 1-11 until I made this topic. It happened to be a really convenient way to categorize what I liked and didn't like about movies. I would have extended it if I needed to and then you would have had two movies going up to number 11 with Citizen Kane going up to like 15.
Good lord man its a figure of speech. Wolves then. Replace the vultures with wolves. You're like some sort of logical, rational robot. Good lord, the robot invasion could be upon us yet. My nightmares tonight will consist of the cold, metallic grip of a rather dashing robot holding my head in front of a theater screen playing Citizen Kane for the rest of time, with Giant Tope running the projection and laughing hysterically.
Man, I probabally shouldn't state my opinion on citizen kane then, but I agree with Fawful*. I just felt it wasn't good. Then again, I've never liked any of his works or DW Griffits. Though, like Fawful, I give it the technical props it deserves.
*I've been doing theater classes (both film and stage) for about 5-6 years now.
Can I be making popcorn in the lobby and just kind of chuckling to myself? I'm in a wheelchair, so I'm basically a cyborg right? Anyway, it beats modern Hollywood. Anything past 1995 is almost always drivel.
You're in a wheelchair? I've been making fun of a guy in a wheelchair this whole time? Why didn't anyone tell me? I mean that's just.....
AMAZINGLY AWESOME.
I have ascended to a higher plane of being.
he's in a hardcore death metal band with the angels now
that skydive
with jetpacks
Time to begin the Human Instrumentality Project! Don't worry, I told my new friends humans are good. They're totally for it. Have fun as all physical life ends and you're all united into a single possibly-mindless soul. Gosh you guys are lucky.
Cloudy With a Chance of Meatballs 6/10 (I'm so disappointed with this movie. Great style of 3D animation, great concept, great use of color, great character design, but weak plot, weak pacing, mostly predictable, no effective emotion and only funny in very few scenes. Such wasted potential. Maybe I shouldn't be so harsh on it though since it IS a children's movie, I suppose.)
ಠ_ಠ
^_^
Thanks for answering my question.
It's Hell Valley now. Also, cancelled.
What the- I'M THE ONLY EVANGELION FAN HERE, DANGIT. NO ONE CAN TAKE THAT TITLE AWAY FROM ME.
EDIT: COMRADE DOESN'T COUNT
The Road to El Dorado: 5/10 The last time I saw this was when the thing came out, and I have no idea why I haven't watched it since. It's actually a fairly good film with good humor and good animation. The thing that really drags it down for me is the Elton John musical numbers. The guy went from The Lion King to...This. It's just damn silly and not very well sung. This movie definitely better than I remember, but not as good as other animated films I've seen.
In my own personal opinion I would give it an 8/10, but it all comes down to the individual person and their tastes. So I am not saying you are wrong, I am just saying what I think.
I really enjoy this movie, and the music as well. Someday out of the Blue is really good, and I have it as an MP3.
I just hope it keeps up, they might even step up to Pixar's level of popularity which would be awesome because rival competition would produce great movies from both sides.
Prince of Egypt gets the same rating from me, actually. gorgeously animated with a truly powerful musical score and a fantastic take on a traditional bible story. I think that's part of the reason I rate Road to El Dorado lower, because when I think of Dreamworks' 2D animation, I think Prince of Egypt.
I don't think Dreamworks will ever be the animation powerhouse Pixar is, but I do think they give Pixar a healthy dose of competition, which is always a good thing.
Never seen the Sean Connery one. Sounds like I'll have to hunt it down for a look though.
Basically, Megamind is to Mark Waid's Incorruptible as The Incredibles is to Watchmen.
So... 8/10
Also, when the hell are we gonna get The Tick's animated movie?!
Well who knows, their movies are getting in the caliber that Pixar's earlier movies were and I actually prefer most of their character animation and design over Pixar's. Toothless and Megamind are especially dynamic and expressive, much more so than any main character Pixar has ever done. It's like, almost anywhere you would pause in a scene with those two you get a face and/or pose full of expression and livelyness. (and to me, Pixar's best character design and animation has been in Wall-E) Of course, I shouldn't even be comparing them since they're so different of styles, but still.
I think I like to rate movies more on actual grades, since I think that suits my opinions best. Pixar has always been in the A's and A plusses to me, (with the exception of Cars and A Bug's Life, which to me get C's or C minuses at best) and Dreamworks has, after Prince of Egypt, (which was an A) tinkered on the C's and D's, sometimes getting an F here and there with movies like Shrek 3, (Kung Fu Panda gets a B minus) but this year they've moved to the B's or B plusses with their two major movies. Not counting Shrek 4, which I assume is bad, though I heard it's better than the third at least. I'll watch it eventually. But anyway, it's possible if they keep it up and learn from what they do right and wrong that they'll move to A's, and that's when they'll be on the level of Pixar for me.
Maybe they won't make as much money and recognition, but if their movies are just as powerful with their emotions as Pixar's are and they reek of actual effort every time, then it's all good with me. Megamind got pretty close, it really tried but, since it was mainly made to be a comedic movie, they couldn't have possibly made it too powerful, but it was still nice and subtle with their sad scenes. That scene in the rain, for example, was fantastic because they actually relied on facial expressions and the general feel of the atmosphere instead of heavy use of words to describe the emotions the character was feeling, which is a first for Dreamworks. The climax scene however, was totally emotional for a completely different reason, I know I got butterflies in my stomach because of it. (the "PRESENTATION!" scene I mean, I can't say anything more than that because it's a spoiler, but people who've seen it will know what I'm talking about)
I don't know what's going to happen though, it seems like it's going to be a slow year next year for both Pixar and Dreamworks, which would be a shame after such a year of good animated movies. I mean, there's Cars 2, which I don't think can possibly be better than the first, which was IMO, the worst movie Pixar has ever done, (not necessarily bad, though) but who knows. And then there's Kung Fu Panda 2. I thought the first one was good, but it wasn't anything spectacular, and if this sequel ends up being better and not another obvious money-milker like Shrek 2 and Madagascar I'll be pleasantly surprised.
Me too, bro. I actually saw Toy Story 3 twice in theaters, once in a normal theater when I was visiting some friends in Orlando and the other in imax 3D when I was back in Miami and my little cousin wanted to see it. I don't think it will get ever old, but the second time in 3D didn't really do anything different for me.
THIS, however. I went to see it with a group from school after our class was done, right on opening day. Our animation teacher wouldn't shut up about this movie, and we were weirded out because it looked like crap from the advertising. I swear he's like a prophet of good animation or something. So we totally went to see it in a normal theater expecting it to be crap, and we were wrong and regretted it.
I should note that, this was in an imax 3D, which looks and sounds better than in a regular 3D screening, as it has a lot more depth and retains the same colors; usually I don't go to see animated movies in a regular 3D theater, it's either in an imax or a regular 2D theater because it's not worth it to lose the color.
Oh sorry is this the animation topic?
I knew I wasn't the only one bothered by the fact that I know that song.
Also, why wouldn't I not count?
I love this movie! Great humour, great acting, great music! The only real problem is that I've seen the film quite a few times now and it's getting to be a bit samey. But that's my fault and not the movies so I shall stick by the 10/10 mark!
Because I'm bitter.
Regarding the Dreamworks/Pixar thing, I still think Pixar tends to make better movies, but Dreamworks is definitely catching up. Frankly, Pixar's future looks kinda grim now with three publicly-announced films in the works and only one of them an original, not-sequel film. But then again, I wasn't impressed by Toy Story 3's trailer, and that movie turned out to be incredible, so who knows?