I just had a REALLY crazy thought...remember how we never knew what happened to OLD Biff when he brought the time machine back to 2015? Well he was either clutching his chest from a heartache or a BULLET wound...wouldn't it be awesome if SOMEHOW he went back and found kid tannen, told him about his plan and he SHOT him for one reason or another - not believing him / trying to take the time machine for his own we KNOW how stupid the tannens are....after being shot ...( yes, I know about the "this one shows you where you're going, this one shows you were you were, this one shows you where you are..." ) but anyways...he returns back to 2015 and dies from the bulletwound? And they mix in old griff with the time machine and somehow marty /doc sees this and interferes and...MAJOR PARADOXXXX....hehehe what do you guys think?!?!
Unfortunately that is impossible. For one thing there's no blood in the delorean but while we dont know biffs entire travel itenrary (I doubt he only goes to one place and goes back unless he returns because of the chest pains), we do know that his last stop before returning to 2015 was 1955 as it says so on the time circuit display.
I just had a REALLY crazy thought...remember how we never knew what happened to OLD Biff when he brought the time machine back to 2015? Well he was either clutching his chest from a heartache or a BULLET wound...wouldn't it be awesome if SOMEHOW he went back and found kid tannen, told him about his plan and he SHOT him for one reason or another - not believing him / trying to take the time machine for his own we KNOW how stupid the tannens are....after being shot ...( yes, I know about the "this one shows you where you're going, this one shows you were you were, this one shows you where you are..." ) but anyways...he returns back to 2015 and dies from the bulletwound? And they mix in old griff with the time machine and somehow marty /doc sees this and interferes and...MAJOR PARADOXXXX....hehehe what do you guys think?!?!
But you do open up an interesting realm of possibilities; we basically have 2 instances where the whenabouts of the delorean are unaccounted for (as well as the time train which we know nothing about aside from it showing up in 1985 at the end of part III); When doc goes with it aside from 2015 once he finally gets to use it for himself at the end of part I and when Biff goes when he has it aside from 1955. This means we could see either of these characters show up at any given time. I'd imagine Doc makes a point of attempting to avoid being in the same time twice so if we do encounter Doc time travelling with the delorean pre-part II, it probably wont be 1931 as Doc wouldn't go back there again. Could be neat seeing 2 sets of time travellers from different eras collide.
I just had a REALLY crazy thought...remember how we never knew what happened to OLD Biff when he brought the time machine back to 2015? Well he was either clutching his chest from a heartache or a BULLET wound...wouldn't it be awesome if SOMEHOW he went back and found kid tannen, told him about his plan and he SHOT him for one reason or another - not believing him / trying to take the time machine for his own we KNOW how stupid the tannens are....after being shot ...( yes, I know about the "this one shows you where you're going, this one shows you were you were, this one shows you where you are..." ) but anyways...he returns back to 2015 and dies from the bulletwound? And they mix in old griff with the time machine and somehow marty /doc sees this and interferes and...MAJOR PARADOXXXX....hehehe what do you guys think?!?!
According to commentary on the scene, alternate timeline stuff in the bonus features, and the like, we can piece together that Old Biff clutching his chest was a byproduct of the alternate reality that was setting in. In the Extended Scene HERE we see Biff fading away out of existence. It is widely believed that he was shot sometime in the 1990s, either by Lorraine or an assassin or something, which would mean that at that point in 2015, Biff would be long gone, thus him fading from existence when he gets out of the DeLorean.
I would say that it's the product of Biff fading away as New Biff of the alternate timeline took over, but that's never happened anywhere else where timelines have merged or have altered anywhere so.....that's my .02
What we have to remember is that there are three timelines. One without Marty OR Doc where events take their natural course, one with just Doc where "Carl Sagan" gets murderded on the Courthouse steps, and one with Doc and Marty where "Carl Sagan" is saved from the paddywagon. My point is: in timeline two with just Doc, the chase that Marty intterupted during his arrival was left unintterupted and followed the natural course (presuming that Doc didn't do something before his incarceration to induce a police chase that was never supposed to happen in timeline 1!) The cop (presumably Officer Parker) either didn't catch Cue Ball and Matches or did catch them and they did not squeal on Kid. This must be the case because Kid was still freely walking the streets to shoot Carl Segan upon his release the next day. So Marty intterupting that chase should not effect Kid's timeline, he would have been walking the streets the next day one way or the other.
Is it possible that Edna burnt down the speakeasy? Doc says that Einstein is never aggressive without good reason. What if Einstein saw something that Doc didn't before he was struck by that stray brick? That would explain his aggression towards her and why Edna is so passionate about Carl Segan and praising his good deeds. She is passionate enough about Prohibition to burn it down but proper and lady like enough to do so secretly and freely let the blame fall on Mr. Segan.
My whole thing is this, I'll break down my thoughts again. xP
MANDATORY :
Kid Tannen has to be dealt with one way or another that will still land him in jail for the rest of his life.
Artie has to be saved. Perhaps not being shot will make him the "hero" of the town and attract Trixie's (Silvia's?) attention? Maybe some problem solving between Marty and Artie will occur, and Marty will allow Artie to take all the credit in catching Kid Tannen, making him very marketable to the ladies.
Meanwhile, Doc's gonna be feeling dejected and sad about being betrayed by Marty. (I still feel like an ass about that. =[). I don't think we'll be seeing a lot of Teen Doc in Episode 2. That chain of events will probably lead him to becoming First Citizen Brown.
SPECULATION:
Perhaps Edna will be around to make Doc feel better..."Emmett, I can't thank you enough for letting us use your mansion for the Stay Sober Society! We must meet again sometime!" Maybe Doc, feeling pretty dejected in his perceived failings as a scientist, Edna's love of law and justice will sway him into taking up being an enforcer of his own in First Citizen Brown. Maybe even some romantic overtones as well. xP
Hey, wait... Suppose that Emmett will become the First Citizen Brown, then how will he invent the time machine and all? I think Emmett's timeline is equally crucial to the series as Marty's, if not more. And we need to avoid the MAJOR paradox of the time machine never being created! Or, if it's created, then Marty's still less likely to befriend the First Citizen Brown or something... right?
Hey, wait... Suppose that Emmett will become the First Citizen Brown, then how will he invent the time machine and all? I think Emmett's timeline is equally crucial to the series as Marty's, if not more. And we need to avoid the MAJOR paradox of the time machine never being created! Or, if it's created, then Marty's still less likely to befriend the First Citizen Brown or something... right?
That's my problem with BTTF Part II. When Marty and Doc go back to 1985A where Biff is powerful and in possesion of the almanac, Marty is supposed to be at boarding school and Doc committed. So are the "alternate" Doc and Marty really elsewhere? Because in that case, Doc didn't invent the time machine, Marty didn't end up in 1955, Doc didn't go thirty year into the future and then come back for Marty, Marty never bought the almanac, and Old Biff never gave the book to himself. And even if alternate Doc and Marty DID invent the time machine, the Marty in 1955 trying to get his parents back together would not have the same adventure as the first film. He wouldn't really know his father since George is dead but the adventure is the same nonetheless? PARODOX!
Apologies if this has already been brought up as I haven't been following this thread that closely.
However, I do expect that we will find out that either Doc or Marty ended up burning down/blowing up the speakeasy.
I'm kind of doubting it. That'd fall under a predestination paradox which the whole film series avoids. The predestination paradox is where a time traveler goes back in time to complete his "destiny". Marty's life would not have changed in Part 1 if those rules apply. He would have gone back in time and convinced his father to be the man he's destined to be. But he changed the course of their lives, adding a new stimuli to the time stream that resulted in an alternate universe where George is a new man.
I'm kind of doubting it. That'd fall under a predestination paradox which the whole film series avoids. The predestination paradox is where a time traveler goes back in time to complete his "destiny". Marty's life would not have changed in Part 1 if those rules apply. He would have gone back in time and convinced his father to be the man he's destined to be. But he changed the course of their lives, adding a new stimuli to the time stream that resulted in an alternate universe where George is a new man.
maybe i'm reading that wrong, but it seems like you just proved your own theory wrong.:o Also in BttF 2 Marty is back in 1955 (the same 1955 universe from the first movie) going even further behind the scenes to "protect" all the work he did in the first movie. Think about the scene where he has to stop Biff's goons from mugging his other self playing guitar on stage. So the idea that it would be Marty burning down the speakeasy seems plausible to me.
maybe i'm reading that wrong, but it seems like you just proved your own theory wrong.:o Also in BttF 2 Marty is back in 1955 (the same 1955 universe from the first movie) going even further behind the scenes to "protect" all the work he did in the first movie. Think about the scene where he has to stop Biff's goons from mugging his other self playing guitar on stage. So the idea that it would be Marty burning down the speakeasy seems plausible to me.
That actually seems somewhat plausible. Plus, we did see two Martys as the vanishing one ducked beneath the Marty that was still present. xP
maybe i'm reading that wrong, but it seems like you just proved your own theory wrong.:o Also in BttF 2 Marty is back in 1955 (the same 1955 universe from the first movie) going even further behind the scenes to "protect" all the work he did in the first movie. Think about the scene where he has to stop Biff's goons from mugging his other self playing guitar on stage. So the idea that it would be Marty burning down the speakeasy seems plausible to me.
No he's right. The pre destination time travel theory is that time travel is already written into the timeline before it happens; for instance in the terminator timeline, John Connor sends kyle reese back in time from 2029 to 1984 where he impregnates johns mother, thus becoming johns father. The time line would have already expected time travel for this to be plausible. The time travellers wife also uses this theory.
Back to the future follows the same post desitnation theory as timecop or the hot tub time machine (sorry i cant think of better movies) where the time line does not expect time travel until it happens and thus multiple concurrent timelines exist; So for instance in time cop, Walker goes back in time 10 years, prevents his wife from being murdered and then returns to the present to find her alive.
As far as what's happened in part II 1955: the part I time travel has already happened hence why marty and doc see those events again. But docs trip to 1885 has not happened yet so for instance the delorean is not hidden in the mine and there is no tombstone of Docs. Those things appear once the delorean gets struck by lightning.
No he's right. The pre destination time travel theory is that time travel is already written into the timeline before it happens; for instance in the terminator timeline, John Connor sends kyle reese back in time from 2029 to 1984 where he impregnates johns mother, thus becoming johns father. The time line would have already expected time travel for this to be plausible. The time travellers wife also uses this theory.
Back to the future follows the same post desitnation theory as timecop or the hot tub time machine (sorry i cant think of better movies) where the time line does not expect time travel until it happens and thus multiple concurrent timelines exist; So for instance in time cop, Walker goes back in time 10 years, prevents his wife from being murdered and then returns to the present to find her alive.
As far as what's happened in part II 1955: the part I time travel has already happened hence why marty and doc see those events again. But docs trip to 1885 has not happened yet so for instance the delorean is not hidden in the mine and there is no tombstone of Docs. Those things appear once the delorean gets struck by lightning.
I think I should point out that I am basing this off of BttF law and not real law. And basically all time travel movies are flawed in some way. The Terminator series seems to go back and forth in it's "laws" And in the later movies they even imply that you can't change your destiny no matter what. So I'm pretty sure that predestination theory only works in BttF as long as you assume that the delorian can universe hop as well. The world of 2015 didn't come crashing down around them when Biff stole the time machine. They were able to actually stay there, then, leave the universe they were currently occupying (still intact) and enter universe b in 1985. And in that case Biff would not have been able to take the Delorean back from 1955 to the 2015 he knew...Actually when they go back to 1955 again wouldn't they be creating a universe c? Whatever, anyway In the realm of BttF we see both Marty and Doc having to complete there destiny by going back in time is my point. It's a little fuzzy anyway.
:winslow:
I think I should point out that I am basing this off of BttF law and not real law. And basically all time travel movies are flawed in some way. The Terminator series seems to go back and forth in it's "laws" And in the later movies they even imply that you can't change your destiny no matter what. So I'm pretty sure that predestination theory only works in BttF as long as you assume that the delorian can universe hop as well. The world of 2015 didn't come crashing down around them when Biff stole the time machine. They were able to actually stay there, then, leave the universe they were currently occupying (still intact) and enter universe b in 1985. And in that case Biff would not have been able to take the Delorean back from 1955 to the 2015 he knew...Actually when they go back to 1955 again wouldn't they be creating a universe c? Whatever, anyway In the realm of BttF we see both Marty and Doc having to complete there destiny by going back in time is my point. It's a little fuzzy anyway.
:winslow:
Well since we dont know what would happen if there was time travel, movies can make their own rules.
And the point in the terminator films is that time travel is already in the timeline (if it weren't, thered be no john connor) and destiny is unavoidable; they fail at stopping judgement day despite knowing the future and no matter how hard john tries to stay off the grid and avoid being the leader, he ends up anyhow.
We have no clue which 2015 biff returns to at the end, all that is seen is doc and marty carry jennifer to the delorean.
Well since we dont know what would happen if there was time travel, movies can make their own rules.
And the point in the terminator films is that time travel is already in the timeline (if it weren't, thered be no john connor) and destiny is unavoidable; they fail at stopping judgement day despite knowing the future and no matter how hard john tries to stay off the grid and avoid being the leader, he ends up anyhow.
We have no clue which 2015 biff returns to at the end, all that is seen is doc and marty carry jennifer to the delorean.
:eek: What about Biffs cane that they found in the Delorean? So we do know that he returned to the 2015 that Marty and Doc were occupying, also they wouldn't have a Delorean to take Jennifer to if it didn't come back. But ultimately the idea that Marty could be the one to burn down the speakeasy is still plausible since like you said, the movie just makes up its own rules. It's still fun to debate this stuff though.
:eek: What about Biffs cane that they found in the Delorean? So we do know that he returned to the 2015 that Marty and Doc were occupying, also they wouldn't have a Delorean to take Jennifer to if it didn't come back. But ultimately the idea that Marty could be the one to burn down the speakeasy is still plausible since like you said, the movie just makes up its own rules. It's still fun to debate this stuff though.
Yes but we dont know which version of 2015 this is. Is george mcfly still in martys house or does he vanish? I believe it's 2015A (one where biff is rich) but there is no evidence either way.
Yes but we dont know which version of 2015 this is. Is george mcfly still in martys house or does he vanish? I believe it's 2015A (one where biff is rich) but there is no evidence either way.
Grandma and Grandpa just disappear, right in the middle of pizza night! how rude!
That's my problem with BTTF Part II. When Marty and Doc go back to 1985A where Biff is powerful and in possesion of the almanac, Marty is supposed to be at boarding school and Doc committed. So are the "alternate" Doc and Marty really elsewhere? Because in that case, Doc didn't invent the time machine, Marty didn't end up in 1955, Doc didn't go thirty year into the future and then come back for Marty, Marty never bought the almanac, and Old Biff never gave the book to himself. And even if alternate Doc and Marty DID invent the time machine, the Marty in 1955 trying to get his parents back together would not have the same adventure as the first film. He wouldn't really know his father since George is dead but the adventure is the same nonetheless? PARODOX!
Not complaining, just thinking out loud
I agreed with and/or followed what you said until that point. In the film, what with when the newspaper was dated and when Biff got married to Marty's mum, it's clear to me Marty that he did know his father, and that because the Armanac only predicted sporting events, the events of the first movie would still have played out, whether you use pre Marty's influence or the altered reality. We also don't know when Doc got sent to the asylum. It's very possible that 1985A Marty would have befriended him and tried to prevent the murder of his father.
Nonetheless, here's a short list of possible things to happen, just to show you how "predictions" work old-school:
Quoting myself again to see how I fared
Young Doc and Edna will get a lot closer to each other. CORRECT
The episode will not have many scenes with Young Emmet and focus on other, new characters instead. Mostly correct
Artie will find his courage just like George did, making him a better father. Good news! Incorrect
The 1931 town square will be expanded upon, with more places to visit. Mostly correct: There were new places, but the old ones were cut
Doc will tell Marty what to do to save his life, but not help him, because he's occupied with... say... repairing the time machine yet again. The scene shown in the earliest IGN screenshots will occur right at the beginning of the episode, although it won't look exactly the same. Incorrect: Doc is indeed stuck in the hotel, leaving Marty to do everything, but the IGN scene hasn't resurfaced
We will find out who burned down the speakeasy. Paradox or no, it could actually be Marty. Incorrect: Although there's a likely suspect, we don't know for sure if it was Edna.
Trixie might be performing in the speakeasy; it's unlikely that we don't see this place at all. As the only alternative, we'll have a stage setup very much like Jessica Rabbit's first appearance in "Roger Rabbit". Correct
Come to think of it, the interior of the speakeasy could bear an actual resemblance to one "inventory". Incorrect
Trixie WILL sing (LONG CUTSCENE!) and people will justly praise Jared Emerson-Johnson for this like a God. Half-correct. No cutscene, but mucho singing!
While we're there and with all the music going on, Marty could get his hands on a guitar. Maybe Trix needs some support?? Incorrect
Kid Tannen won't get even the slightest jota more believeable and continue to be a mere Biff copy. Correct
At the end of the episode, Marty will think that he has done everything right and will head right back into his ol' present. But he's WRONG WRONG WRONG! Correct
Comments
Unfortunately that is impossible. For one thing there's no blood in the delorean but while we dont know biffs entire travel itenrary (I doubt he only goes to one place and goes back unless he returns because of the chest pains), we do know that his last stop before returning to 2015 was 1955 as it says so on the time circuit display.
But you do open up an interesting realm of possibilities; we basically have 2 instances where the whenabouts of the delorean are unaccounted for (as well as the time train which we know nothing about aside from it showing up in 1985 at the end of part III); When doc goes with it aside from 2015 once he finally gets to use it for himself at the end of part I and when Biff goes when he has it aside from 1955. This means we could see either of these characters show up at any given time. I'd imagine Doc makes a point of attempting to avoid being in the same time twice so if we do encounter Doc time travelling with the delorean pre-part II, it probably wont be 1931 as Doc wouldn't go back there again. Could be neat seeing 2 sets of time travellers from different eras collide.
According to commentary on the scene, alternate timeline stuff in the bonus features, and the like, we can piece together that Old Biff clutching his chest was a byproduct of the alternate reality that was setting in. In the Extended Scene HERE we see Biff fading away out of existence. It is widely believed that he was shot sometime in the 1990s, either by Lorraine or an assassin or something, which would mean that at that point in 2015, Biff would be long gone, thus him fading from existence when he gets out of the DeLorean.
I would say that it's the product of Biff fading away as New Biff of the alternate timeline took over, but that's never happened anywhere else where timelines have merged or have altered anywhere so.....that's my .02
Is it possible that Edna burnt down the speakeasy? Doc says that Einstein is never aggressive without good reason. What if Einstein saw something that Doc didn't before he was struck by that stray brick? That would explain his aggression towards her and why Edna is so passionate about Carl Segan and praising his good deeds. She is passionate enough about Prohibition to burn it down but proper and lady like enough to do so secretly and freely let the blame fall on Mr. Segan.
Feel free to poke holes in my logic
MANDATORY :
Kid Tannen has to be dealt with one way or another that will still land him in jail for the rest of his life.
Artie has to be saved. Perhaps not being shot will make him the "hero" of the town and attract Trixie's (Silvia's?) attention? Maybe some problem solving between Marty and Artie will occur, and Marty will allow Artie to take all the credit in catching Kid Tannen, making him very marketable to the ladies.
Meanwhile, Doc's gonna be feeling dejected and sad about being betrayed by Marty. (I still feel like an ass about that. =[). I don't think we'll be seeing a lot of Teen Doc in Episode 2. That chain of events will probably lead him to becoming First Citizen Brown.
SPECULATION:
Perhaps Edna will be around to make Doc feel better..."Emmett, I can't thank you enough for letting us use your mansion for the Stay Sober Society! We must meet again sometime!" Maybe Doc, feeling pretty dejected in his perceived failings as a scientist, Edna's love of law and justice will sway him into taking up being an enforcer of his own in First Citizen Brown. Maybe even some romantic overtones as well. xP
However, I do expect that we will find out that either Doc or Marty ended up burning down/blowing up the speakeasy.
But yeah, it's either Doc or Edna. xD
Marty only just got there AFTER the sp-.....
Hm, you bring up a point. What if Doc and Marty traveled through time AGAIN, to before the speakeasy was burnt down?
Also...EDIT AGAIN.
Trixie (Sylvia?) is ALSO captured by Tannen's gang, which would somehow explain how Artie and Sylvia got to know each other?
Logic was thrown out the window when in 1931 cars apparently go 88 miles an hour. Outside of breaking movie canon, anything is game! xP
That's my problem with BTTF Part II. When Marty and Doc go back to 1985A where Biff is powerful and in possesion of the almanac, Marty is supposed to be at boarding school and Doc committed. So are the "alternate" Doc and Marty really elsewhere? Because in that case, Doc didn't invent the time machine, Marty didn't end up in 1955, Doc didn't go thirty year into the future and then come back for Marty, Marty never bought the almanac, and Old Biff never gave the book to himself. And even if alternate Doc and Marty DID invent the time machine, the Marty in 1955 trying to get his parents back together would not have the same adventure as the first film. He wouldn't really know his father since George is dead but the adventure is the same nonetheless? PARODOX!
Not complaining, just thinking out loud
I'm kind of doubting it. That'd fall under a predestination paradox which the whole film series avoids. The predestination paradox is where a time traveler goes back in time to complete his "destiny". Marty's life would not have changed in Part 1 if those rules apply. He would have gone back in time and convinced his father to be the man he's destined to be. But he changed the course of their lives, adding a new stimuli to the time stream that resulted in an alternate universe where George is a new man.
maybe i'm reading that wrong, but it seems like you just proved your own theory wrong.:o Also in BttF 2 Marty is back in 1955 (the same 1955 universe from the first movie) going even further behind the scenes to "protect" all the work he did in the first movie. Think about the scene where he has to stop Biff's goons from mugging his other self playing guitar on stage. So the idea that it would be Marty burning down the speakeasy seems plausible to me.
That actually seems somewhat plausible. Plus, we did see two Martys as the vanishing one ducked beneath the Marty that was still present. xP
No he's right. The pre destination time travel theory is that time travel is already written into the timeline before it happens; for instance in the terminator timeline, John Connor sends kyle reese back in time from 2029 to 1984 where he impregnates johns mother, thus becoming johns father. The time line would have already expected time travel for this to be plausible. The time travellers wife also uses this theory.
Back to the future follows the same post desitnation theory as timecop or the hot tub time machine (sorry i cant think of better movies) where the time line does not expect time travel until it happens and thus multiple concurrent timelines exist; So for instance in time cop, Walker goes back in time 10 years, prevents his wife from being murdered and then returns to the present to find her alive.
As far as what's happened in part II 1955: the part I time travel has already happened hence why marty and doc see those events again. But docs trip to 1885 has not happened yet so for instance the delorean is not hidden in the mine and there is no tombstone of Docs. Those things appear once the delorean gets struck by lightning.
I think I should point out that I am basing this off of BttF law and not real law. And basically all time travel movies are flawed in some way. The Terminator series seems to go back and forth in it's "laws" And in the later movies they even imply that you can't change your destiny no matter what. So I'm pretty sure that predestination theory only works in BttF as long as you assume that the delorian can universe hop as well. The world of 2015 didn't come crashing down around them when Biff stole the time machine. They were able to actually stay there, then, leave the universe they were currently occupying (still intact) and enter universe b in 1985. And in that case Biff would not have been able to take the Delorean back from 1955 to the 2015 he knew...Actually when they go back to 1955 again wouldn't they be creating a universe c? Whatever, anyway In the realm of BttF we see both Marty and Doc having to complete there destiny by going back in time is my point. It's a little fuzzy anyway.
:winslow:
Well since we dont know what would happen if there was time travel, movies can make their own rules.
And the point in the terminator films is that time travel is already in the timeline (if it weren't, thered be no john connor) and destiny is unavoidable; they fail at stopping judgement day despite knowing the future and no matter how hard john tries to stay off the grid and avoid being the leader, he ends up anyhow.
We have no clue which 2015 biff returns to at the end, all that is seen is doc and marty carry jennifer to the delorean.
:eek: What about Biffs cane that they found in the Delorean? So we do know that he returned to the 2015 that Marty and Doc were occupying, also they wouldn't have a Delorean to take Jennifer to if it didn't come back. But ultimately the idea that Marty could be the one to burn down the speakeasy is still plausible since like you said, the movie just makes up its own rules. It's still fun to debate this stuff though.
Yes but we dont know which version of 2015 this is. Is george mcfly still in martys house or does he vanish? I believe it's 2015A (one where biff is rich) but there is no evidence either way.
Grandma and Grandpa just disappear, right in the middle of pizza night! how rude!
Yeah i'd imagine with Arthur testifying against Kid, that he could get shot.
I agreed with and/or followed what you said until that point. In the film, what with when the newspaper was dated and when Biff got married to Marty's mum, it's clear to me Marty that he did know his father, and that because the Armanac only predicted sporting events, the events of the first movie would still have played out, whether you use pre Marty's influence or the altered reality. We also don't know when Doc got sent to the asylum. It's very possible that 1985A Marty would have befriended him and tried to prevent the murder of his father.
Quoting myself again to see how I fared
Well, ermmm... I thought I was more right.