Bleh, I thought you understood this side of me...:p
Well, I understood your earlier phase of abstract curiosity because I was in the same phase with you as well, albeit solving it in a different way. Now, dunno, we both took different ways I guess so I'm not able to emphatize that well, but it's okay. I'm not like trying to insult you or mock you or anything.
Well, I understood your earlier phase of abstract curiosity because I was in the same phase with you as well, albeit solving it in a different way. Now, dunno, we both took different ways I guess so I'm not able to emphatize that well, but it's okay. I'm not like trying to insult you or mock you or anything.
What? I still abstract things...Let's look at this forum, lol, I'm barely allowed to post philosophical things...
I'm not saying you abandoned it, I'm saying that it's inevitable to find some answers to the many questions you asked, and undergo some change in approaching other forumites; while asking new questions, usually constructed by these answers you got.
Please keep it civil in here before I have to hand out tickets ...
Huh?! I wish you would name names because I'm left unsure if it was my posts that you found offensive (which I find it hard to believe considering the nature of your picture - seriously I've had slapped hands for less by the Moderators of this forum).
It's not as fun on this forum as it used to be. I'm always afraid I'm going to get banned for speaking my mind (as I am right now). It's like being a drunkard in a public library!
So does anyone here actually likeany of the Star Wars movies?
I like the original version of the Original Trilogy (and also Adywan's fan edit) but it seems the majority of people here think it's all just a festering pile of suck.
Huh?! I wish you would name names because I'm left unsure if it was my posts that you found offensive (which I find it hard to believe considering the nature of your picture - seriously I've had slapped hands for less by the Moderators of this forum).
It's not as fun on this forum as it used to be. I'm always afraid I'm going to get banned for speaking my mind (as I am right now). It's like being a drunkard in a public library!
Might be me, actually. Although the only thing I'm having here is fun, surely what I say can EASILY offend a Star Wars fan.
Then again, I wouldn't hate the franchise so passionately if it didn't have so many fans.
So does anyone here actually likeany of the Star Wars movies?
I like the original version of the Original Trilogy (and also Adywan's fan edit) but it seems the majority of people here think it's all just a festering pile of suck.
I love the original films, pre 1997. Anyone who doesn't is likely devoid of taste and would be the sort to enjoy Sonic recolors. As we all know, Christian Weston Chandler is the only one who can recolor Sonic correctly.
Overrated. The films are quite good but not as good as fans make out. As for culturally significanse it hasn't created any new codes and conventions that weren't in science fiction lierature previously and I don't think it uses any of them in a dynamic and original way. It may be significant in that it is one of the first sci-fi films to earn a mainstream following. I'm just confused how it can sustain all these sequels, games, tie-in novels etc when LucasArts have so much more creative people with more interesting ideas.
I love the original films, pre 1997. Anyone who doesn't is likely devoid of taste and would be the sort to enjoy Sonic recolors. As we all know, Christian Weston Chandler is the only one who can recolor Sonic correctly.
I acknowledge the original, definitive Star Wars as one of the best films ever made and I don't feel the need to validate that comment.
However, the Empire Strikes Back is my favorite and Return of the Jedi isn't far behind.
The prequels, on the other hand. I used to think okay of them, the only bad one being The Phantom Menace, but then I saw the Plinkett reviews of them, each film earning a 70, 90, or 120 minute review just ripping them apart for the reasons they failed.
For example, they assumed Lucas was such a genious he only needed to draft one script per film and never revise them. Interestingly, you can see concept art for the film in the footage of him handing the script in to his team of Yes men. I really reccomend these reviews for all the detail they go into. They're funny too. 'Star Wars Episode I is more disappointing then my son'.
Nonetheless, I'm buying them on Blu later this year in the complete set because I'm a Consumer Whore. And How!
I love the original films, pre 1997. Anyone who doesn't is likely devoid of taste and would be the sort to enjoy Sonic recolors. As we all know, Christian Weston Chandler is the only one who can recolor Sonic correctly.
They're overrated, and the only great characters are Yoda, Han, Chewie, Vader, Jabba, and Lando. The rest are just good to poor. Luke and Leia are whiny, prissy, preachy bitches, and so are the Jedi. Luke especially is just a massively overconfident weak asshole.
What the Star Wars films are breathtaking at are special effects and imagination. The characters aren't what make it cool for me, but the universe it inhabits which is full of potential as long as I don't have to listen to Luke bitch and whine and moan all day long like a little asshole with his ROTTEN LITTLE MOUTH.
Hey It's popular. I became fan during the Special Edition film and enjoyed all six and the books. I know not everyone enjoys it and that's fine. But it's all a matter of opinion.
For those of you who are fans and admire the series, I want to hear more from you. What makes this franchise so unique? Fawful mentioned that the key is the world the characters live in, but I want to hear more opinions about this, I really do.
I just want to understand why it's so loved around the world
I'm a big fan the original trilogy. With Empire Strikes Back being one of my personal favorite movies of all time. The prequels are... okay. I can't really say they're bad but they do not hold up to the originals. I do have a nostalgic spot The Phantom Menace though because it was the first Star Wars movie I ever saw. Of course I do see the flaws of that movie today, but I still remember as a kid being amazed at what I saw that day at the cinema. I had never seen anything like that ever in a movie. Sweet memories...
I love the original three, and I think the last prequel is an alright movie, but the first two prequels are almost un-watchable. When I was a kid, I watched the first three Star Wars', and first three Indiana Jones movies all the time. Because I watched them as a kid, that probably color's my perception of them....If I had seen them for the first time as an adult, I might not care for them.
Overrated. The films are quite good but not as good as fans make out. As for culturally significanse it hasn't created any new codes and conventions that weren't in science fiction lierature previously and I don't think it uses any of them in a dynamic and original way. It may be significant in that it is one of the first sci-fi films to earn a mainstream following. I'm just confused how it can sustain all these sequels, games, tie-in novels etc when LucasArts have so much more creative people with more interesting ideas.
Um, Star Wars isn't Sci-Fi. It's Fantasy. Just because there's (unrealistic) spaceships doesn't make it Science Fiction you know.
Um, Star Wars isn't Sci-Fi. It's Fantasy. Just because there's (unrealistic) spaceships doesn't make it Science Fiction you know.
Science in Star Wars... what a myth.
Wrong. Star Wars is a Space Opera.
Wikipedia's definition of Space Opera:
"Space opera is adventure science fiction set in outer space or on distant planets, where the emphasis is on action rather than either science or characterization. The conflict is heroic, and typically on a large scale.
Space opera is sometimes used pejoratively, to describe improbable plots, absurd science, and cardboard characters. But it is also used nostalgically, and modern space opera may be an attempt to recapture the sense of wonder of the golden age of science fiction. The pioneer of this subgenre is generally recognized to be Edward E. (Doc) Smith, with his Skylark and Lensman series. Alastair Reynolds's Revelation Space series, Peter F. Hamilton's The Dreaming Void, The Night's Dawn and Pandora's Star series, Vernor Vinge's A Fire Upon the Deep and A Deepness in the Sky, and the immensely popular Star Wars trilogies are newer examples of this genre."
Star Wars is escapist fantasy set in a futuristic setting. It does have machines and technology, but the technology they use never improves over time; is never remotely explained; and is never used to drive, explain or resolve the plot.
Star Trek is science fiction.
[edit:]the SW prequels stray from formula by injecting stupid retconning contrivances such as midichlorians, and the novels try to inject science fiction into Star Wars by trying to explain things like how lightsabers work, but on the whole the franchise is still fantasy, not sci-fi.[/edit]
The term 'space opera' sounds more like something which someone came up with to make themselves sound cool.
Star Wars is escapist fantasy set in a futuristic setting. It does have machines and technology, but the technology they use never improves over time; is never remotely explained; and is never used to drive, explain or resolve the plot.
Star Trek is science fiction.
[edit:]the SW prequels stray from formula by injecting stupid retconning contrivances such as midichlorians, and the novels try to inject science fiction into Star Wars by trying to explain things like how lightsabers work, but on the whole the franchise is still fantasy, not sci-fi.[/edit]
The term 'space opera' sounds more like something which someone came up with to make themselves sound cool.
I was going to reply to evolution rex's post by going into a rant about how Star Wars IS a fantasy film set in space but you pretty much summed it up and spoke the truth.
It's funny how people focus on the setting and not the fact that it's a tale of a farm boy, a couple of wizards and a Princess, with the liberal use of magic throughout.
Evolution rex defined "Space Opera" as a form of science fiction and went on to say how such stories are unscientific! A contradiction that shows just how BS the term "Space Opera" actually is.
Well the first 2 were great and the 3rd was okay...just okay... until Lucas decided to **** them and go "remaster" them. Funny, I don't remember "remaster" meaning "to completely **** with and change **** because of what little kids think while alienating all your previous fans"..... those are the only 3 movies in the series in my opinion....no more were ever made...nope....none.
Well the first 2 were great and the 3rd was okay...just okay... until Lucas decided to **** them and go "remaster" them. Funny, I don't remember "remaster" meaning "to completely **** with and change **** because of what little kids think while alienating all your previous fans"..... those are the only 3 movies in the series in my opinion....no more were ever made...nope....none.
...those are the only 3 movies in the series in my opinion....no more were ever made...nope....none.
What?! You don't count The Clone Wars movie with Zirro (aka Cartman); the transexual Hutt and Stinky; the farting, puking baby Hutt? That shit was better than the original three movies combined.
The originals are great. (for the time at least, but still very watchable)
The sequals are poo.
The books and the comics I can't really judge since I've never read them...
But the games man, most of the games are awesome, you have to give the Star Wars franchise that at least.
EDIT: Also, can't we just call it Space Fantasy and leave it at that?
...the games man, most of the games are awesome, you have to give the Star Wars franchise that at least.
How very true. My favourites are...
* Star Wars (for the original Gameboy)
* Dark Forces
* Jedi Knight: Dark Forces II
* Jedi Knight: Jedi Outcast
* X-Wing
* Tie Fighter
* X-Wing Alliance
* Rebel Assualt II (cheesy I know but I'm a total sucker for FMV games)
* Episode I: Pod Racer (the arcade version in particular is great)
* Knights of the Old Republic
...can't we just call it Space Fantasy and leave it at that?
Absolutely, especially as that's what I've been saying all along.
By the way, I highly recommend the book Star Wars on Trial, which is a fictional court case on the pros and cons of Star Wars. It's also thought provoking and very funny, essential reading for fans and jaded ex-fans alike...
You seem to be looking at Star Wars more from the standpoint of a movie critic than a consumer.
The original version of the Original Star Wars Trilogy is fun; the music is appropriately exciting, somber and dramatic in just the right places; the characters play well off of one another; the humor is appropriately tongue-in-cheek; the sets and props are futuristic yet timeless... I could go on.
At the end of the day, you care about what happens to these characters. It's fun to watch Han and Leia's relationship change and grow, Luke's revelation about his family and his struggle to make the hard choice, the droids appropriately break the tension with humor and wit; and to watch Luke kick ass with a lightsaber.
Also, the more times you watch it, the more things you catch; such as how Luke wears white in A New Hope, grey in Emipre, and black in Jedi- which is indicative of his path toward the dark side as the Sith wear black, not the Jedi.
It's not just about whether or not something has been done before; it's how well it's being done and the nuances of how certain things, especially details, come together to make the final product. Just because the opening crawl is akin to Flash Gordon doesn't take points away for effective delivery. Besides that, how many people who love Star Wars actually remember watching Flash Gordon first if at all?
You might as well say Indiana Jones is overrated, but Raiders and Last Crusade are two of my favorite movies. It doesn't matter if they take things directly from older films and reuse them.
edit: I really don't understand how some people dock points from a movie just because some aspect of it had already been done by some other movie that came out 20 years before. Neither do I understand why some people think that a movie needs to end on a sad/bittersweet note in order to be appropriately artistic.
Take Avatar for example. I saw Dances with Wolves when it was originally in theaters- and I have to say that I like Avatar a lot better. Why? Well, I can watch a fairly slow moving 3-hour long drama about the plight of the Native Americans; or I can watch an action-filled movie with breathtaking visuals on a gorgeous planet, regarding an interesting alien culture and the trouble they face... and frankly Colonel Quaritch from Avatar is just bad ass. Yes, Avatar does have it's plot holes, but I don't care. I enjoyed myself when watching it, and that's what matters.
For somone who is defending it you don't seem to be holding it in very high regard more as just a trivial piece of escapism. If this is how you see the film I apologise for my argument was not aimed at you. I am more aiming at the film critics and film historians who see this as one of the greatest films of all time and in that regard I see it as overrated. I admit that a work of art doesn't have to be revoulutionary and original to be a masterpiece, but is a classic because it is one of the best of the genre (eg. Singing in the Rain) but in my opinion this is not one of them.
For somone who is defending it you don't seem to be holding it in very high regard more as just a trivial piece of escapism. If this is how you see the film I apologise for my argument was not aimed at you. I am more aiming at the film critics and film historians who see this as one of the greatest films of all time and in that regard I see it as overrated. I admit that a work of art doesn't have to be revoulutionary and original to be a masterpiece, but is a classic because it is one of the best of the genre (eg. Singing in the Rain) but in my opinion this is not one of them.
Precisely, I don't think that there's many people who would argue against Star Wars being fun, escapist entertainment but this is a film that frequently claims the #1 spot on 'the greastest film of all time' polls and the title of this thread is 'is Star Wars overrated?', seeming it's scarcely a film and more of a summer movie; I'd say the answer has to be a resounding 'yes'.
If anyone considers Star Wars to be the greatest "film" of all time then I would wager that they're either a child / teenager, or that they seriously need to leave the braindead comfort zone of the Hollywood blockbuster system and watch some real films. Films that deal with morality in shades of grey, films that feature deep and complex characters, films that touch you and move you to tears, whilst helping you to deal with many issues of modern society.
The fact is that most people don't ever leave their junk food Hollywood bubble and so have no concept of what's actually out there. Allow me to recount a personal experience; my best friend from some years ago was a huge fan of music (the kind of music with real artistic credibility), whereas I couldn't stand music (having been exposed to nothing but chart crap for so many years). My friend introduced me to Pink Floyd and for the first time I felt a wonderful shiver travel down my spine. I now own a large collection of CDs and haven't looked back since.
My friend on the other hand was exactly the same with his attitude towards film. One day he asked me "Ed, how come you purchase DVDs, as opposed to going to the cinema or renting them?", I asked him what he meant exactly and he elaborated; "I enjoy watching movies but once I've watched one, there's no great need to watch it again". I asked him which films he had watched and he went on to list countless blockbusters. I lent him some of my favourite films. He now owns a large collection of DVDs and hasn't looked back since.
So, for those of you who consider Star Wars to be the greatest film of all time; I urge you to heed the wise words of Obi-Wan Kenobi by taking your first step into a larger world.
The think I never understood about people ripping on the prequels, is what do they expect? Anakin to be a bad ass the second he was born? I actually liked the Phantom Manace. Yes Jar Jar was annoying in it but I thought there was a chance for his character to change and grow like Han did in the original trilogy. Of course we never got to see it cause the political correct police whining about sterotypes. Even though george did say the films are meant for kids (which I do not agree with looking at a few scenes in the OT), I never though TPM or AOTC to be bad films. It's hard to be a good film when people's expectations are too high.
The primary problem with Anakin is that the actors portraying him in the prequels were cast badly. Jake Lloyd's lines sound very forced in every single movie I've sen him in, and TPM is no exception. It has also been said that Hayden was cast as Anakin because he had a quality about him in which you could see Darth Vader emerging, but rather he just comes off as whiny, and we never get to see Anakin and Obi-Wan together as really good friends like Alec Guiness' Obi-Wan in The Original Trilogy seemed to say that they were. Sure, the Clone Wars movie and TV show try to make up for that, but those seem ancillary at best as they don't really add anything to the overall storyline of the live-action movies.
I think the orginal films are quiet good but now adays its way overated in fact i think people only like it so much because of how much mechandise of it there is...
Comments
Bleh, I thought you understood this side of me...:p
Well, I understood your earlier phase of abstract curiosity because I was in the same phase with you as well, albeit solving it in a different way. Now, dunno, we both took different ways I guess so I'm not able to emphatize that well, but it's okay. I'm not like trying to insult you or mock you or anything.
What? I still abstract things...Let's look at this forum, lol, I'm barely allowed to post philosophical things...
Huh?! I wish you would name names because I'm left unsure if it was my posts that you found offensive (which I find it hard to believe considering the nature of your picture - seriously I've had slapped hands for less by the Moderators of this forum).
It's not as fun on this forum as it used to be. I'm always afraid I'm going to get banned for speaking my mind (as I am right now). It's like being a drunkard in a public library!
I like the original version of the Original Trilogy (and also Adywan's fan edit) but it seems the majority of people here think it's all just a festering pile of suck.
Might be me, actually. Although the only thing I'm having here is fun, surely what I say can EASILY offend a Star Wars fan.
Then again, I wouldn't hate the franchise so passionately if it didn't have so many fans.
I love the original films, pre 1997. Anyone who doesn't is likely devoid of taste and would be the sort to enjoy Sonic recolors. As we all know, Christian Weston Chandler is the only one who can recolor Sonic correctly.
Well played, sir. Well played.
However, the Empire Strikes Back is my favorite and Return of the Jedi isn't far behind.
The prequels, on the other hand. I used to think okay of them, the only bad one being The Phantom Menace, but then I saw the Plinkett reviews of them, each film earning a 70, 90, or 120 minute review just ripping them apart for the reasons they failed.
For example, they assumed Lucas was such a genious he only needed to draft one script per film and never revise them. Interestingly, you can see concept art for the film in the footage of him handing the script in to his team of Yes men. I really reccomend these reviews for all the detail they go into. They're funny too. 'Star Wars Episode I is more disappointing then my son'.
Nonetheless, I'm buying them on Blu later this year in the complete set because I'm a Consumer Whore. And How!
They're overrated, and the only great characters are Yoda, Han, Chewie, Vader, Jabba, and Lando. The rest are just good to poor. Luke and Leia are whiny, prissy, preachy bitches, and so are the Jedi. Luke especially is just a massively overconfident weak asshole.
What the Star Wars films are breathtaking at are special effects and imagination. The characters aren't what make it cool for me, but the universe it inhabits which is full of potential as long as I don't have to listen to Luke bitch and whine and moan all day long like a little asshole with his ROTTEN LITTLE MOUTH.
The new ones are bad.
I just want to understand why it's so loved around the world
Um, Star Wars isn't Sci-Fi. It's Fantasy. Just because there's (unrealistic) spaceships doesn't make it Science Fiction you know.
Science in Star Wars... what a myth.
Wikipedia's definition of Space Opera:
"Space opera is adventure science fiction set in outer space or on distant planets, where the emphasis is on action rather than either science or characterization. The conflict is heroic, and typically on a large scale.
Space opera is sometimes used pejoratively, to describe improbable plots, absurd science, and cardboard characters. But it is also used nostalgically, and modern space opera may be an attempt to recapture the sense of wonder of the golden age of science fiction. The pioneer of this subgenre is generally recognized to be Edward E. (Doc) Smith, with his Skylark and Lensman series. Alastair Reynolds's Revelation Space series, Peter F. Hamilton's The Dreaming Void, The Night's Dawn and Pandora's Star series, Vernor Vinge's A Fire Upon the Deep and A Deepness in the Sky, and the immensely popular Star Wars trilogies are newer examples of this genre."
Funny, I must have missed the singing.
I believe some people actually categorize it as a Western, as it has a few of the same elements.
Star Trek is science fiction.
[edit:]the SW prequels stray from formula by injecting stupid retconning contrivances such as midichlorians, and the novels try to inject science fiction into Star Wars by trying to explain things like how lightsabers work, but on the whole the franchise is still fantasy, not sci-fi.[/edit]
The term 'space opera' sounds more like something which someone came up with to make themselves sound cool.
I was going to reply to evolution rex's post by going into a rant about how Star Wars IS a fantasy film set in space but you pretty much summed it up and spoke the truth.
It's funny how people focus on the setting and not the fact that it's a tale of a farm boy, a couple of wizards and a Princess, with the liberal use of magic throughout.
Evolution rex defined "Space Opera" as a form of science fiction and went on to say how such stories are unscientific! A contradiction that shows just how BS the term "Space Opera" actually is.
What?! You don't count The Clone Wars movie with Zirro (aka Cartman); the transexual Hutt and Stinky; the farting, puking baby Hutt? That shit was better than the original three movies combined.
The sequals are poo.
The books and the comics I can't really judge since I've never read them...
But the games man, most of the games are awesome, you have to give the Star Wars franchise that at least.
EDIT: Also, can't we just call it Space Fantasy and leave it at that?
How very true. My favourites are...
* Star Wars (for the original Gameboy)
* Dark Forces
* Jedi Knight: Dark Forces II
* Jedi Knight: Jedi Outcast
* X-Wing
* Tie Fighter
* X-Wing Alliance
* Rebel Assualt II (cheesy I know but I'm a total sucker for FMV games)
* Episode I: Pod Racer (the arcade version in particular is great)
* Knights of the Old Republic
Absolutely, especially as that's what I've been saying all along.
By the way, I highly recommend the book Star Wars on Trial, which is a fictional court case on the pros and cons of Star Wars. It's also thought provoking and very funny, essential reading for fans and jaded ex-fans alike...
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Star-Wars-Trial-Science-Science-fiction/dp/193210089X
The original version of the Original Star Wars Trilogy is fun; the music is appropriately exciting, somber and dramatic in just the right places; the characters play well off of one another; the humor is appropriately tongue-in-cheek; the sets and props are futuristic yet timeless... I could go on.
At the end of the day, you care about what happens to these characters. It's fun to watch Han and Leia's relationship change and grow, Luke's revelation about his family and his struggle to make the hard choice, the droids appropriately break the tension with humor and wit; and to watch Luke kick ass with a lightsaber.
Also, the more times you watch it, the more things you catch; such as how Luke wears white in A New Hope, grey in Emipre, and black in Jedi- which is indicative of his path toward the dark side as the Sith wear black, not the Jedi.
It's not just about whether or not something has been done before; it's how well it's being done and the nuances of how certain things, especially details, come together to make the final product. Just because the opening crawl is akin to Flash Gordon doesn't take points away for effective delivery. Besides that, how many people who love Star Wars actually remember watching Flash Gordon first if at all?
You might as well say Indiana Jones is overrated, but Raiders and Last Crusade are two of my favorite movies. It doesn't matter if they take things directly from older films and reuse them.
edit: I really don't understand how some people dock points from a movie just because some aspect of it had already been done by some other movie that came out 20 years before. Neither do I understand why some people think that a movie needs to end on a sad/bittersweet note in order to be appropriately artistic.
Take Avatar for example. I saw Dances with Wolves when it was originally in theaters- and I have to say that I like Avatar a lot better. Why? Well, I can watch a fairly slow moving 3-hour long drama about the plight of the Native Americans; or I can watch an action-filled movie with breathtaking visuals on a gorgeous planet, regarding an interesting alien culture and the trouble they face... and frankly Colonel Quaritch from Avatar is just bad ass. Yes, Avatar does have it's plot holes, but I don't care. I enjoyed myself when watching it, and that's what matters.
Precisely, I don't think that there's many people who would argue against Star Wars being fun, escapist entertainment but this is a film that frequently claims the #1 spot on 'the greastest film of all time' polls and the title of this thread is 'is Star Wars overrated?', seeming it's scarcely a film and more of a summer movie; I'd say the answer has to be a resounding 'yes'.
If anyone considers Star Wars to be the greatest "film" of all time then I would wager that they're either a child / teenager, or that they seriously need to leave the braindead comfort zone of the Hollywood blockbuster system and watch some real films. Films that deal with morality in shades of grey, films that feature deep and complex characters, films that touch you and move you to tears, whilst helping you to deal with many issues of modern society.
The fact is that most people don't ever leave their junk food Hollywood bubble and so have no concept of what's actually out there. Allow me to recount a personal experience; my best friend from some years ago was a huge fan of music (the kind of music with real artistic credibility), whereas I couldn't stand music (having been exposed to nothing but chart crap for so many years). My friend introduced me to Pink Floyd and for the first time I felt a wonderful shiver travel down my spine. I now own a large collection of CDs and haven't looked back since.
My friend on the other hand was exactly the same with his attitude towards film. One day he asked me "Ed, how come you purchase DVDs, as opposed to going to the cinema or renting them?", I asked him what he meant exactly and he elaborated; "I enjoy watching movies but once I've watched one, there's no great need to watch it again". I asked him which films he had watched and he went on to list countless blockbusters. I lent him some of my favourite films. He now owns a large collection of DVDs and hasn't looked back since.
So, for those of you who consider Star Wars to be the greatest film of all time; I urge you to heed the wise words of Obi-Wan Kenobi by taking your first step into a larger world.