but if the ending/game was truly my own story (not totally unique i know thousand of people would have made the same choices as me) i would tell everyone to buy it
I'm pretty sure things will deviate sharply in the last episode. After they don't have to bring everything back to have a neat continuation, I think they're going to go nuts.
I think all of the "pointless" choices that "don't change anything" won't really matter till Episode 5. Where, your actions, who you've sided with, etc, determine who lives and who dies.
I'm pretty sure things will deviate sharply in the last episode. After they don't have to bring everything back to have a neat continuation, I think they're going to go nuts.
I'd love for it to just got batshit crazy at the end and have a unique ending depending on what we did. I don't know how that would effect the second season that they have announced, though. Maybe season 1 is Lee and Clem's story, and season 2 will bring all new characters to the table.
I'd love for it to just got batshit crazy at the end and have a unique ending depending on what we did. I don't know how that would effect the second season that they have announced, though. Maybe season 1 is Lee and Clem's story, and season 2 will bring all new characters to the table.
I guessed that 2 would have new characters and, based on your saves, would have a Lee cameo at appropriate times.
So they lack any sort of ambition? No one ever said making video games was supposed to be easy and you're not supposed to compromise for "what's realistic", you're supposed to push the boundaries.
Don't get me wrong: I like the story anyway and it succeeded in evoking responses from me. My heart pounded, I was sweating, and I did feel the pressure. Telltale did a very good job, but unless the next 3 episodes really deliver we'll just be playing an interactive story with very mild variations.
I understand that it's a lot to do and it adds constraints. It means more loose ends to tie up, more coding, more testing, and more money. However, I would hope that Telltale is more concerned with blowing away their fanbase.
What do I mean by "more variation"?
So far, the big choices have been:
I don't know whether lying to Hershel has any significance because I was always honest. I could see it serving a purpose to change how certain dialogue options and attitudes of your Lee (being honest or deception) but, practically speaking, it serves no purpose since we probably see Hershel again in this series.
The choice between Shawn and Duck effectively boils down to whether you want brownie points with Kenny. Either way, Kenny runs off like a coward with Duck, Shawn is killed, and Hershel gives you the boot. This is probably more significant later in relation to Kenny's character, which seems to hate you if you don't support him 100% of the time.
Choosing who to side with (or not) in the pharmacy also seems to be about brownie points. It does not change the group dynamic because Kenny and Lilly go through the same arguments Episode 2 regardless of who you side with. Clementine is always on your side, as is Carley. Choosing to side with Larry and Lily would overrule Kenny's family and vice versa, thus changing the balance of power and support. We see none of this.
Choosing to give the gun or not should have a very heavy impact, particularly on how people view you (consider that Glenn and Carley saw you and most likely said something about it). This seems like a decision for the game and other characters to learn how you treat others but it has not really come to fruition.
I think choosing Doug or Carley will become much more significant down the road and it was pretty different in Episode 2. I give this the benefit of the doubt. Carley is a bit more of the strong, silent type. She is good with a gun. Meanwhile, Doug is more comedic and very resourceful. In Episode 2 you find the differences in their personalities and how they handle stress as well as different skills and abilities. Doug being a tech guy makes him pretty valuable, which is clear when he designs an alarm system. Meanwhile, Carley is a bit more of a grunt who ends up taking most of the watch shifts. Doug saves you with a laser pointer while Carley does it the old fashioned way. However, giving both characters nearly the same lines is inexcusably lazy. They're different people, treat them like it!
Chopping off David's leg is another one of those decisions that probably alters how the game and NPCs view your Lee. There are no real consequences to this in Episode 2 - either way, Ben is the only one who survives and you save Katjaa.
Choosing to help save or kill Larry is another one of those decisions I think are too early to fully appreciate. You see the immediate effects in Episode 2 and I'm damn sure you'll see them as long as Lily and Kenny are around. Personally, I highly doubt the writers will overlook this. I actually feel very confident that your treatment of the St. John brothers will not be forgotten since their fate carries heavy implications. Without them, the bandits become more aggressive and your group views you as more violent. With them, you gain mortal enemies with nothing left to lose but your humanity is not forgotten.
I'd certainly hope that little things have an impact on your story: how you treat other characters (particularly Clementine) and how hopeful or practical you are should change how others view you.
I give a great benefit of the doubt because it's only Episode 2, but we return to my original point: they have no excuse for linearity after this point. I've already got my seat belt buckled and I'm in for he ride, which I have thoroughly enjoyed so far. If Telltale wants to simply tell a tale, that's what they're doing so far. If they want to live up to their own hype and do something that sets them apart from all the other languorous developers, they'll set the bar for story telling in video games.
So they lack any sort of ambition? No one ever said making video games was supposed to be easy and you're not supposed to compromise for "what's realistic", you're supposed to push the boundaries.
Don't get me wrong: I like the story anyway and it succeeded in evoking responses from me. My heart pounded, I was sweating, and I did feel the pressure. Telltale did a very good job, but unless the next 3 episodes really deliver we'll just be playing an interactive story with very mild variations.
I understand that it's a lot to do and it adds constraints. It means more loose ends to tie up, more coding, more testing, and more money. However, I would hope that Telltale is more concerned with blowing away their fanbase.
What do I mean by "more variation"?
So far, the big choices have been:
I don't know whether lying to Hershel has any significance because I was always honest. I could see it serving a purpose to change how certain dialogue options and attitudes of your Lee (being honest or deception) but, practically speaking, it serves no purpose since we probably see Hershel again in this series.
The choice between Shawn and Duck effectively boils down to whether you want brownie points with Kenny. Either way, Kenny runs off like a coward with Duck, Shawn is killed, and Hershel gives you the boot. This is probably more significant later in relation to Kenny's character, which seems to hate you if you don't support him 100% of the time.
Choosing who to side with (or not) in the pharmacy also seems to be about brownie points. It does not change the group dynamic because Kenny and Lilly go through the same arguments Episode 2 regardless of who you side with. Clementine is always on your side, as is Carley. Choosing to side with Larry and Lily would overrule Kenny's family and vice versa, thus changing the balance of power and support. We see none of this.
Choosing to give the gun or not should have a very heavy impact, particularly on how people view you (consider that Glenn and Carley saw you and most likely said something about it). This seems like a decision for the game and other characters to learn how you treat others but it has not really come to fruition.
I think choosing Doug or Carley will become much more significant down the road and it was pretty different in Episode 2. I give this the benefit of the doubt. Carley is a bit more of the strong, silent type. She is good with a gun. Meanwhile, Doug is more comedic and very resourceful. In Episode 2 you find the differences in their personalities and how they handle stress as well as different skills and abilities. Doug being a tech guy makes him pretty valuable, which is clear when he designs an alarm system. Meanwhile, Carley is a bit more of a grunt who ends up taking most of the watch shifts. Doug saves you with a laser pointer while Carley does it the old fashioned way. However, giving both characters nearly the same lines is inexcusably lazy. They're different people, treat them like it!
Chopping off David's leg is another one of those decisions that probably alters how the game and NPCs view your Lee. There are no real consequences to this in Episode 2 - either way, Ben is the only one who survives and you save Katjaa.
Choosing to help save or kill Larry is another one of those decisions I think are too early to fully appreciate. You see the immediate effects in Episode 2 and I'm damn sure you'll see them as long as Lily and Kenny are around. Personally, I highly doubt the writers will overlook this. I actually feel very confident that your treatment of the St. John brothers will not be forgotten since their fate carries heavy implications. Without them, the bandits become more aggressive and your group views you as more violent. With them, you gain mortal enemies with nothing left to lose but your humanity is not forgotten.
I'd certainly hope that little things have an impact on your story: how you treat other characters (particularly Clementine) and how hopeful or practical you are should change how others view you.
I give a great benefit of the doubt because it's only Episode 2, but we return to my original point: they have no excuse for linearity after this point. I've already got my seat belt buckled and I'm in for he ride, which I have thoroughly enjoyed so far. If Telltale wants to simply tell a tale, that's what they're doing so far. If they want to live up to their own hype and do something that sets them apart from all the other languorous developers, they'll set the bar for story telling in video games.
Outside observation: if the person your responding to could only type a single worded sentence and you type all of that, I'd say you win by default.
It looks to me like they're primarily trying to craft a story and using the choices and consequences to create more emotional impact. Naturally, the cost of creating art assets and voice acting limits the extent to which the story can branch, but the art and acting's important for the effect they're trying to create too.
If you're interested in branching narratives, check out what's happening in the interactive fiction world - with only text to create, people can be a lot more free with what they do. http://www.choiceofgames.com/category/our-games/ is one place worth starting. It's a bit of a mixed bag - the early games seem to be largely a case of winning points with ally A, B or C, then picking the right one to side with in the final showdown, with a few cosmetic choices of the sort the people in this thread have been complaining about. The later ones promise to be more ambitious, but I've not explored them fully.
I think they handle choice and the effect in dialog way better then some other games.
Tho with episode 2 done im starting to see a pattern and thats the "tough/major" choices seem too sort of overwrite the previous big choice as if it dosnt really matter anymore, and the npc/characters just forget past choices and will only remember current choice which imo is a pretty big flaw for such a character story driven game.
It was especially obvious with the meat locker choice in ep2, now that one made no sens to me if you picked Larry/Lilly. Kenny which Lee in my game had supported from the get-go just went completely mental as everything else that had happen between the two during episode 1 and 2 never happen. Kinda awkward, and there was no option to discuss it except more or less calling him coward, wow lol.
It just dosnt seem to handle multi choices very well, like you either stick with one thing or nothing at all. Tho Clem-Clem is remembering pretty well, thats a plus!.
IMO, the game developers did a really great job with the choices. It's pretty wasteful to design a whole new branch of the story if only 50% did it, yet they designed, voiced, wrote, etc. for whatever choice you make. Plus, if you are a fan of other Telltale Games, then you know this is their first time where there are several story arcs, depending on your decisions.
i just finished the first and second episode today and what i feel now is like my choices mostly let the people of the group think bad about me, so allways let me feel i have done something wrong (only ingame....)
but besides that there isnt a deeper influence after what i have read and after just the first two episodes.
as allways i think about real heavy consequences in such games... if you would do that consistently you would end up with a huge amount of possible storylines (if you can calculate...) or with just some which split up early or at fixed points. both variants doesnt seem practical to me so the social changes might be enough (how the people like you or who is left behind and who not)
what i hated at the end was the larry decision... he will die no matter what and i missed the opportunity to tell kenny to stand ready to drop that saltblock if he turns while lee tries to revive... so i tried that and all my feedback is that larry moans all the time (and probably later on... -.-') what is pretty annoying if you know larry would die anyway.
also i would have liked to say "let us wait a day at the car and when nobody comes we will get it"... just moaning myself
I am significantly disappointed in the artificial choices the game offers.
The way it's being marketed, It really sounds like your choices should impact the story but it doesn't at all. Everyone plays the exact same story, the only difference is the way the characters act.
Look at some of this marketing and tell me if I'm wrong.
Remember this screen?
Don't get me wrong, I like the game. It's a great adventure game, and this is what telltale excels at. It's just linear and the marketing is misleading. I had much higher hopes, and to be honest I think TTG did too. There are a few things I noticed that seem to imply a more meaningful decision. For example, what was the purpose of having the dialogue options available to tell the St.Johns "Nobody fucks with our group" or "We have enough people to defend ourselves" if not some device to discourage them from feeding Mark to you?
I expected the game to be like other "interactive dramas" For example, in "Heavy Rain" there is a scene where you run away from the police, and you can get shot, arrested, brought back to the station, and interrogated. You can also escape and skip the police station arc of the story. I was expecting decisions in TWD to be more along the lines of
-Go into Clem's house / Go out the gate and keep looking for help
-Help Larry get meds / Let the fucker die
-Go to the Greene farm / Continue on your own
-Fail to save Clem from walkers --> Instant autosave, Clem permanently dead
-Go upstairs in St.John house to find Mark / Wash hands and eat dinner
-Approach Brenda to rescue Katjaa / Walk away and let her fend for herself
etc, you know, drastic, lasting decisions. They said they want you to think first and think "what have I done" afterward; No "right" decisions etc... So far that hasn't been the case at all.
I know there are 3 episodes left in the season, so I'll keep a hopeful mind, but I am very very confidant there will only be one narrative, and that disappoints me. Someone mentioned the possibility of a Woodbury with Lilly / Boat with Kenny decision in ep.3 and while I am in love with that idea or any other idea that would create a split narrative, We probably won't see it.
And the excuse that "To write multiple narratives would be like writing multiple games, telltale can't do all that for 5 bucks a game, one month per episode isnt enough to do that" etc -- At the release of episode 1, I read TTG would be working simultaneously on ALL the episodes throughout the release period, and that they were all in late phases, so it's not like they're pushing out entire games within a 1-month (lol more like 2-month) agenda.
I'll still play TellTale Games because they are great adventures, but TTG needs to be really careful with their marketing (or hire new marketing people for fucks sake) because so far they have set two really high bars for themselves and failed to meet either of them. (tailored story and monthly releases)
I am significantly disappointed in the artificial choices the game offers.
The way it's being marketed, It really sounds like your choices should impact the story but it doesn't at all. Everyone plays the exact same story, the only difference is the way the characters act.
Look at some of this marketing and tell me if I'm wrong.
Remember this screen?
Don't get me wrong, I like the game. It's a great adventure game, and this is what telltale excels at. It's just linear and the marketing is misleading. I had much higher hopes, and to be honest I think TTG did too. There are a few things I noticed that seem to imply a more meaningful decision. For example, what was the purpose of having the dialogue options available to tell the St.Johns "Nobody fucks with our group" or "We have enough people to defend ourselves" if not some device to discourage them from feeding Mark to you?
I expected the game to be like other "interactive dramas" For example, in "Heavy Rain" there is a scene where you run away from the police, and you can get shot, arrested, brought back to the station, and interrogated. You can also escape and skip the police station arc of the story. I was expecting decisions in TWD to be more along the lines of
-Go into Clem's house / Go out the gate and keep looking for help
-Help Larry get meds / Let the fucker die
-Go to the Greene farm / Continue on your own
-Fail to save Clem from walkers --> Instant autosave, Clem permanently dead
-Go upstairs in St.John house to find Mark / Wash hands and eat dinner
-Approach Brenda to rescue Katjaa / Walk away and let her fend for herself
etc, you know, drastic, lasting decisions. They said they want you to think first and think "what have I done" afterward; No "right" decisions etc... So far that hasn't been the case at all.
I know there are 3 episodes left in the season, so I'll keep a hopeful mind, but I am very very confidant there will only be one narrative, and that disappoints me. Someone mentioned the possibility of a Woodbury with Lilly / Boat with Kenny decision in ep.3 and while I am in love with that idea or any other idea that would create a split narrative, We probably won't see it.
And the excuse that "To write multiple narratives would be like writing multiple games, telltale can't do all that for 5 bucks a game, one month per episode isnt enough to do that" etc -- At the release of episode 1, I read TTG would be working simultaneously on ALL the episodes throughout the release period, and that they were all in late phases, so it's not like they're pushing out entire games within a 1-month (lol more like 2-month) agenda.
I'll still play TellTale Games because they are great adventures, but TTG needs to be really careful with their marketing (or hire new marketing people for fucks sake) because so far they have set two really high bars for themselves and failed to meet either of them. (tailored story and monthly releases)
/2cents
I am glad you agree with me.
TTG is a great company but, as it stands now, TWD hasn't really delivered in the sense of branching storylines. The only real differences are whether you saved Carley or Doug, or if you are siding with Lily or Kenny (or remaining neutral altogether). I hope that the first two episodes are setting up for things to come (going with Kenny, going with Lilly, having to go on your own because neither trust you, dealing with the differences between Doug and Carley) but past promises of branching storylines have often gone unfulfilled.
I'm less annoyed by sporadic updates. I'd accept something 3 months late if it delivered.
TTG is a great company but, as it stands now, TWD hasn't really delivered in the sense of branching storylines. The only real differences are whether you saved Carley or Doug, or if you are siding with Lily or Kenny (or remaining neutral altogether). I hope that the first two episodes are setting up for things to come (going with Kenny, going with Lilly, having to go on your own because neither trust you, dealing with the differences between Doug and Carley) but past promises of branching storylines have often gone unfulfilled.
I'm less annoyed by sporadic updates. I'd accept something 3 months late if it delivered.
Even the doug/carley choice doesn't really matter. They serve the exact same role in episode 2. (mouth to feed or not feed / save you at the end). Dougs alarm is cool but it doesnt mean, do, or affect anything at all
how does anyone not see by picking a side lilly or kenny you are CHANGING the game ??
you also have to choose to save clem and treat her right
you choose carly or doug that also changing the game ??
really people ?
so IF ttg had made these choices matter more and given us different outcomes what would happen ? well for one ep2 would still be 'coming soon'
also you people seem to be forgetting one thing and that is we are on ep2 waiting for ep3 two episodes in ? really ? your expecting too much from 2 episodes..
ep3 will most likely have some big change being the mid point of the game...
so lilly leaves can lee go with her ? does kenny leave lee behind who knows..we will see
bottom line imo is ttg have a limit on what they can do in the time they have so they have to rail road us somehow other wise the game would take longer...
you also have to choose to save clem and treat her right
So far it hasn't mattered how you treat Clem. The game progresses exactly the same whether you cater to her every need or are a total dick. Minor dialouge changes.
you choose carly or doug that also changing the game ??
"the doug/carley choice doesn't really matter. They serve the exact same role in episode 2. (mouth to feed or not feed / save you at the end). Dougs alarm is cool but it doesnt mean, do, or affect anything at all"
also you people seem to be forgetting one thing and that is we are on ep2 waiting for ep3 two episodes in ? really ? your expecting too much from 2 episodes..
ep3 will most likely have some big change being the mid point of the game...
so lilly leaves can lee go with her ? does kenny leave lee behind who knows..we will see
"Every decision and action can result in the entire story of the game changing around you." Okay so clearly TTG overshot the mark with this statement, but who cares? The game is still incredibly good, and it's not the first time a company has oversold their product in advertising.
So people want their character's choices to have significant consequences, for there to be multiple paths. I'm guessing you want the plot to branch depending on what Lee chooses to have for breakfast as well... I'm getting a sense of gamer entitlement here. Think about the amount of time it would take to have multiple alternate plots of equal quality that last the duration of the 5 chapters, that only a percentage of players would experience, as opposed to just one. And as for these proposals:
-Go into Clem's house / Go out the gate and keep looking for help
- How the hell are you supposed to play the game if Clementine isn't in it? Isn't she kinda important? -Help Larry get meds / Let the fucker die
-Hmm well if you didn't get the pills then you would never have set the alarm off, then
the walkers would never come, and Doug/Carley wouldn't die...so the game would just
be dull... -Go to the Greene farm / Continue on your own
-Then maybe you'd never meet Kenny or end up in Macon and meet the group, then
you'd have a completely different game -Fail to save Clem from walkers --> Instant autosave, Clem permanently dead
Then the player would feel like shit for the rest of the series...not to mention the loss
of a central character and interrelationship -Go upstairs in St.John house to find Mark / Wash hands and eat dinner
Why wouldn't you go snooping? Don't you have any curiosity as to why they're not letting you see Mark? -Approach Brenda to rescue Katjaa / Walk away and let her fend for herself
Fair enough lol, that's pretty reasonable, if a little dickish.
I also believe there should be an option not to unlock the door in the barn, because realistically as guests they're kinda crossing the line, but for the most part limited choices is no big deal for what you're getting.
-Go into Clem's house / Go out the gate and keep looking for help
- How the hell are you supposed to play the game if Clementine isn't in it? Isn't she kinda important?
Is she? I would play the game differently without her to look after. Bam! Rash decision!
-Help Larry get meds / Let the fucker die
-Hmm well if you didn't get the pills then you would never have set the alarm off, then
the walkers would never come, and Doug/Carley wouldn't die...so the game would just
be dull...
It wouldn't "be dull", It'd be a separate narrative. More shit can happen at the pharmacy. It could get overrun a different way, Bandits could come trying to loot the Oxycodone, anything.
-Go to the Greene farm / Continue on your own
-Then maybe you'd never meet Kenny or end up in Macon and meet the group, then
you'd have a completely different game
-Go upstairs in St.John house to find Mark / Wash hands and eat dinner
Why wouldn't you go snooping? Don't you have any curiosity as to why they're not letting you see Mark?
Maybe I think it's more important to be a gracious guest like everyone else, It could save you from being attacked
I also believe there should be an option not to unlock the door in the barn, because realistically as guests they're kinda crossing the line,
but for the most part limited choices is no big deal for what you're getting.
That's the point I was making about the dinner scene, but you're right. I'm satisfied with what I got. Just a lot of shortcomings.
Some options and going completely off the rails isn't really feasible from either a technical standpoint or a logical one. For example, simply remaining at the pharmacy; you'd be screwed. The group had one axe and one handgun to defend themselves with. Likewise for trying to continue on your own/bypassing Hershel's, due to Lee having a leg wound with a decent potential for infection. Dying doesn't exactly advance the narrative.
That said, the decision points we do get should have had a bigger impact.
The one that comes to mind most for me; whether to save Shawn/Duck. I've said it before, I actually would've preferred it if they both ended up dead if you opted to save Shawn, since then the decision does have something resembling an actual consequence that impacts future events. The drug store drama? Gone, or atleast drastically different.
Likewise for the drug store drama itself, if you agree to chuck out Duck, it should actually go forward on that point.
Incidentally, Duck avoids death way too often for me to think it's just a coincidence. I'm of the opinion that the whole reason he doesn't actually die is because he's all the nightmarish horror and entropy of the apocalypse itself made manifest. It would explain why every decision to let the kid die gets nullified...
Likewise for the Larry decision in the meat locker, hell, either he turns or you actually save him, but the time spent on saving the old guy results in Kenny's wife or kid ending up hurt/dead because you weren't around to help them.
Little things like that would also help with the apparent multiple personality disorder that a character like Kenny suffers from, where some of these decisions would logically be genuine points of no return in how he views you or would go out of his way for you. Seriously, trying to save an elderly man? Unforgiveable! Agreeing to throw his kid out, thereby condemning him to be eaten alive by the living-impaired? Oh, well, you're an ass, but he'll still come back for you.
bghjkl, treating Clem right or wrong really does affect how other characters view you. I would say this does cause a big shift in gameplay; then again I haven't done a playthrough where I do all the wrong things. While you are right - regardless of how you treat her, the game progresses exactly the same - she still does serve a purpose in terms of characterization and plot.
Rommel makes a good point - certain things just make sense out of necessity, like sticking with a group while you have a leg wound.
It makes perfect sense to investigate Clem's house because you (Lee) have no idea what's going on. Seeing as how you are technically an escaped convict, it makes sense to approach something small - one family - to keep a low profile rather than to walk in the middle of a road with a leg wound.
I feel that stopping at the Greene farm was a necessity due to the leg wound. I disagree with bghjkl; if I had a leg wound like that, I'd let it rest.
I agree that we should have gotten a choice on helping or not helping Larry and what to do at the pharmacy. Even if all it meant was him dying a lot sooner than Episode 2, it still would have made a serious impact on the plot and the other characters. Although, considering that the Meat Locker served the same purpose, this is debatable. The group would have eventually left the pharmacy because it was not a very defensible position and I agree that, with one an axe and one pistol, it would have been abandoned eventually.
While Clementine is indeed a central character, it would drastically change the narrative, how characters view Lee, and how Lee views himself if he failed to save her. Then again, the mini-games aren't really that challenging and saving her isn't that hard. Indeed, this would be a chance to change the narrative in the ways that TTG promised.
One of the things that pissed me off was how you are forced to investigate the farm. I agreed with Lilly - I wanted to just GTFO. I probably would have done something when they refused to hand over Mark - which is probably why they shoehorned you into following Kenny anyway - but again, this is another way to change the narrative and it would not have been that hard to do. Either way you'd figure it out due to Mark's disappearance, but knowing you ate him or not is prime material and I'm shocked TTG didn't use that.
Only a real dick would abandon Katjaa, in my opinion, but I agree that the option should have probably been there. I imagine some people would be more concerned with hunting down the brothers, who are far more dangerous. If this came at the expense of Katjaa's life, the impact on the story kind of explains itself.
Many decisions are purely moral and really only affect how the other characters view you: leaving David, stealing food, siding with this person or that person, and I don't care that they don't have a dramatic impact on the plot because they're not supposed to. Yet, where you'd imagine certain decisions would be different, they are not - so far, where you think your decisions should matter, they really don't because nearly the exact same thing happens regardless of what you do.
Again, I love the game and I'm gonna keep playing it, but TTG should either change their marketing message or fulfill their marketing promises. You can't have your cake and eat it, too if you don't make the cake you want to have and eat. I really want them to live up to their promises because it would make a unique experience and give them a lot of renown to succeed where so many others have failed. Keep in mind: I don't think the others failed because it was too hard, I think they failed because they lacked ambition and, sadly and more often, due to budget restraints and deadlines. I have no idea what the budget or deadline is for TTG, but they should at least be honest with us if they're going to give us something linear.
once you undo the screws if you take a bit too long to move the door andy comes in and tells lee about the bell...
ttg can't win either way, the game is delayed, the game is too short, the game is to linear ( thats point and clicks for ya ) and the choices are blah blah blah.
mass effect cocked up the whole choice thing and thats over 10 times the size of twd.
if you think of twd has a stepping stone to how choices can work future games will do it 'better' but episodic games aren't the best way if there are 'tangents' from each big change requires a new level/map, characters, story plots which = more money spent, more work needed, more testing required etc
and then thats assuming people actually bother to find the different plot lines, you could say 80% of players will just take the existing route and not bother as wha they have is fine and great. so imo thats a waste of resources for the most part..
as i said before it is only ep2 we have 3 more, ttg should be taking note of these comments and doing something about it..
Well, there are choices that flesh out the story, and there are choices that add flavour to the game.
Story-wise it's things like Doug of Carley, did you kill X or Y and so on..
There are also flavour choices, you playing the character you want to be, feeding the children first, how to handle the suicide situation, candy bars...
Occasionaly therse intersect, and that's when the game reacts to who you are.
Considering i'm on my own route of the story, the only part I've noticed to bother me with limited choices was when Kenny killed Larry and at the end, you have to choose.
You've destroyed this group
You're no hero
You murdered Larry
or "..."
I really didn't want to say anything bad, because i knew what he was doing and i know it was wrong but, i didn't wanna say something harsh, i wanted to say something but i could only choose "..."
That's probably the only limited choice I've seen so far.
Considering i'm on my own route of the story, the only part I've noticed to bother me with limited choices was when Kenny killed Larry and at the end, you have to choose.
You've destroyed this group
You're no hero
You murdered Larry
or "..."
I really didn't want to say anything bad, because i knew what he was doing and i know it was wrong but, i didn't wanna say something harsh, i wanted to say something but i could only choose "..."
That's probably the only limited choice I've seen so far.
Right?
The most disconcerting thing to me, when I played through and sided with Lilly, was not that Kenny was mad at me, it was that LEE started to treat him like he was an idiot, despite my Lee having sided with him in all of the other issues. There isn't even a "I understand, even though I don't agree" option in there, at all.
its almost like the game wants to drive the player to extremes
Extreme choices and situations, yes, but schizophrenic character changes? No thank you.
I can imagine that the scene feels right for someone who has been anti-Kenny for the duration of the first two episodes, but if you weren't, the characters feel off. (Almost immersion breaking, in my opinion. At least from a story-telling point of view). The addition of a more neutral dialogue for both Kenny and Lee depending on the established relationship would have been welcome in my book.
It could have been as simple as omitting the vitriolic auto-dialogue exchange in the barn, and adding a less condescending (maybe even more understanding) remark on the walk back to the motor inn.
on my first ep2 run i a'tried to save larry on the princaple that even tho larry was an asshole and we all wanted him to die i wanted to save to see what would happen give lilly some hope..
but no ttg made kenny worse than larry by jumping the gun and ending it.
then on leaving the farm i saw these options and almost let the time run out as i was like WTF ttg You give us these options ?!?!?!
the softest option is saying your no hero lee sort of reasons with kenny but the 'damage is done'
i would of prefered a
'fuck man, i know larry was a threat and all but dayum could of least given us a chance to see if he could be saved instead of just dropping the bomb on him' will redo the choices to see if that happens think i missed one..
Just a note, I replayed the last scene in Episode 2 a bunch of times... If you didn't kill Larry, the most neutral response is "You're no hero". Lee goes: "You're no hero. You destroyed two lives in that meat locker." Kenny starts to walk away and Lee turns around, saying "Kenny, you're not a bad man, but fuck, what are we gonna do now?" I agree that some of the dialogue choices are annoying, this one especially. I was mad at Kenny but I sure as hell didn't blame him for what he did. However, choosing not to kill Larry seemed to make you automatically think Kenny was a heartless murderer.
We have been told that everyone will have different story’s, that we would be able to all talk about the different actions they have taken within the game and how different it all would pan out for each player…
Example 1. Save Shawn – nothing changes at all, you get told to leave the farm either way the only difference is one bit of dialogue in episode 2 from Kenny.
How it should have been. Kenny really acts different minus that one bit of dialogue.
Example 2. Save Doug or Carly, (Telltale preached that one of the people you saved would make a big difference next episode) but nope. They both basically did the same thing, they just saved you with different weapons.
How it should have been. When you save one of the characters actually allow the story to change, just a tad, if you say it will please let it!
The options for how their stories could have branched out are endless, yet they basically did the same thing and played background parts.
Example 3. Play mean or nice, however you play the story stays the same, everything happens exactly the same way bar a few different dialogue choices that don’t really affect any one.
How it should have been. See Dead State, Project Zomboid and how they will create good NPC interaction. Sure this is a story driven game but one spout how different each players experience will be when it ends up just as limited if not even less so than Heavy Rain.
Example 4. Save Larry. Well he dies either way… Lame.
How it should have been. If you actually save him he lives, he can call you over at the end of episode 2 as he did in 1 but this time he offers you a hand and thanks you for saving him. You have lived with him for 3 months saved his life twice and his finally starting to give you the benefit of the doubt. That is character development, not I’m angry I don’t trust you… even when we spend 3 months together my opinion never changes.
It seems like episode 2 takes place straight after episode 1 (minus the new useless guy) since everyone seems to have the same opinions, nobody had developed at all within those 3 months.
The stories are different. Think of it like an alternate reality. There's some small differences, but the large events are the same.
Take Shawn. Yeah, he dies either way, but in one reality Kenny is pissed at your for not trying to save his son and in the other he's not.
Take Carley and Doug. Yeah, they fill the same role, but they're two different people.
In one reality Clem eats human meat while in another she doesn't.
In one reality Lee might be vengeful while in another he's forgiving.
Major plot points and story developments may stay the same but the story does change.
It's like life: we're all born and die and nothing we do in-between will change that but your journey is largely up to you.
spot on
The thing is some people would still complain even if we got lot's of differences, they'd say theres too many options with not enough space to explore them in (3 saves) unless your tech savvy and move them around..
then thats open to bugs and issues.. oh wait..
so even if they gave us more saves slots and fixed the ps3 save issue . what would happen ?
there'd be more complaints about delays to put all this stuff in.. oh wait...
then after all that they'd then pick up on the lack of info.. oh wait...
then it would be an issue with the gameplay/graphics... oh wait...
so what esle is there ? the price/sale, no season pass for xbox, oh wait...
and when ttg do say stuff it's always mis understood....catch my drift...
The thing is some people would still complain even if we got lot's of differences, they'd say theres too many options with not enough space to explore them in (3 saves) unless your tech savvy and move them around..
then thats open to bugs and issues.. oh wait..
so even if they gave us more saves slots and fixed the ps3 save issue . what would happen ?
there'd be more complaints about delays to put all this stuff in.. oh wait...
then after all that they'd then pick up on the lack of info.. oh wait...
then it would be an issue with the gameplay/graphics... oh wait...
so what esle is there ? the price/sale, no season pass for xbox, oh wait...
and when ttg do say stuff it's always mis understood....catch my drift...
Or they shouldn't have said that all choices matter and change the game for each player... oh wait...
They shouldn't have acted like they had created a great story driven game with branching paths for people to enjoy... oh wait...
There would not be any complaints about delays if they had stuck to their original dates... oh wait...
When Telltale does say stuff it's misunderstood because they purposely bend the truth to help sales, that's not a bad thing since they are business men.
When episode one came out everyone was under the impression that each play through would be vastly different, but we all learnt that was not the case.
I'm not sure why anyone would complain that there are lots of different branching stories it would just give more replay value. Unlike what we have now.
so, if person a) saves duck, goes pro kenny, saves doug
then person b) saves shawn, goes pro larry, saves carley
....persons A and B will play the exact same game encountering the exact same events and the story will progress exactly the same with absolutely 0 impact or variation on the future direction of the story.
I think it's a bit like the self-healing hypothesis of time travel (geeky, I know), wherein the regardless of what is changed, time has a way of repairing itself so the story plays out.
Even having played the first two episodes through a few times, I get responses from characters that surprise me. The psychology is interesting.
Larry is a selfish bastard and only views Lee as a murderer and nothing will change that. Even If you agree with him at pharmacy. If Larry changes his view upon Lee simply because he agrees with him would be silly and then you would be complaining how Larry changes his perspective on things too quickly which would be similar to Glenn having two different perspective. Yet I would expect Larry treats you with a little respect for siding with him but he's too ignorant.
I have to disagree what you said about Glenn. Think about it, wouldn't you be conflicted if you had to witness the choices play out with handing her the gun? Glenn isn't the best in situations like this and all he is showing is doubt and he wonders what would happen if you handed her the gun or not. Really it's perfect character development because it shows Glenn views things from all angles and ponders what would happen if things went the other way around. All Glenn was doing is asking Lee why he hadn't done the opposite thing, that only shows his concern, not opinion on the ordeal/situation.
I have to disagree what you said about Glenn. Think about it, wouldn't you be conflicted if you had to witness the choices play out with handing her the gun?
I haven't read the comics but being particularly intrigued by Glenn's conflict before leaving, I checked his Wiki page. His conflict and Larry's death in the game seem to nicely foreshadow Glenn successfully resuscitating his wife after her suicide attempt in the comics, which I thought was neat.
I enjoy the game, But they advertized about choices matter too much. It made the expectations high, and they haven't lived up to it. I've played lots of games with choices impacting the game just as much, without it being advertized.
once you undo the screws if you take a bit too long to move the door andy comes in and tells lee about the bell...
ttg can't win either way, the game is delayed, the game is too short, the game is to linear ( thats point and clicks for ya ) and the choices are blah blah blah.
mass effect cocked up the whole choice thing and thats over 10 times the size of twd.
if you think of twd has a stepping stone to how choices can work future games will do it 'better' but episodic games aren't the best way if there are 'tangents' from each big change requires a new level/map, characters, story plots which = more money spent, more work needed, more testing required etc
and then thats assuming people actually bother to find the different plot lines, you could say 80% of players will just take the existing route and not bother as wha they have is fine and great. so imo thats a waste of resources for the most part..
as i said before it is only ep2 we have 3 more, ttg should be taking note of these comments and doing something about it..
Lets not compare mass effect (rpg/shooter) to the walking dead (as you say point and click), completely different apart from you have the choice of speech (which is good guy/bad guy, so again different to twd). TTG also promised (an overused wordhere lol) tailored storyline development, ive played about 6 different run throughs, probably more, and it is similar outcomes each time, which is a bit cheeky, but I do enjoy discovering all the dialogue to try and piece the story together so far.
Comments
I'm pretty sure things will deviate sharply in the last episode. After they don't have to bring everything back to have a neat continuation, I think they're going to go nuts.
I'd love for it to just got batshit crazy at the end and have a unique ending depending on what we did. I don't know how that would effect the second season that they have announced, though. Maybe season 1 is Lee and Clem's story, and season 2 will bring all new characters to the table.
I guessed that 2 would have new characters and, based on your saves, would have a Lee cameo at appropriate times.
So they lack any sort of ambition? No one ever said making video games was supposed to be easy and you're not supposed to compromise for "what's realistic", you're supposed to push the boundaries.
Don't get me wrong: I like the story anyway and it succeeded in evoking responses from me. My heart pounded, I was sweating, and I did feel the pressure. Telltale did a very good job, but unless the next 3 episodes really deliver we'll just be playing an interactive story with very mild variations.
I understand that it's a lot to do and it adds constraints. It means more loose ends to tie up, more coding, more testing, and more money. However, I would hope that Telltale is more concerned with blowing away their fanbase.
What do I mean by "more variation"?
So far, the big choices have been:
I don't know whether lying to Hershel has any significance because I was always honest. I could see it serving a purpose to change how certain dialogue options and attitudes of your Lee (being honest or deception) but, practically speaking, it serves no purpose since we probably see Hershel again in this series.
The choice between Shawn and Duck effectively boils down to whether you want brownie points with Kenny. Either way, Kenny runs off like a coward with Duck, Shawn is killed, and Hershel gives you the boot. This is probably more significant later in relation to Kenny's character, which seems to hate you if you don't support him 100% of the time.
Choosing who to side with (or not) in the pharmacy also seems to be about brownie points. It does not change the group dynamic because Kenny and Lilly go through the same arguments Episode 2 regardless of who you side with. Clementine is always on your side, as is Carley. Choosing to side with Larry and Lily would overrule Kenny's family and vice versa, thus changing the balance of power and support. We see none of this.
Choosing to give the gun or not should have a very heavy impact, particularly on how people view you (consider that Glenn and Carley saw you and most likely said something about it). This seems like a decision for the game and other characters to learn how you treat others but it has not really come to fruition.
I think choosing Doug or Carley will become much more significant down the road and it was pretty different in Episode 2. I give this the benefit of the doubt. Carley is a bit more of the strong, silent type. She is good with a gun. Meanwhile, Doug is more comedic and very resourceful. In Episode 2 you find the differences in their personalities and how they handle stress as well as different skills and abilities. Doug being a tech guy makes him pretty valuable, which is clear when he designs an alarm system. Meanwhile, Carley is a bit more of a grunt who ends up taking most of the watch shifts. Doug saves you with a laser pointer while Carley does it the old fashioned way. However, giving both characters nearly the same lines is inexcusably lazy. They're different people, treat them like it!
Chopping off David's leg is another one of those decisions that probably alters how the game and NPCs view your Lee. There are no real consequences to this in Episode 2 - either way, Ben is the only one who survives and you save Katjaa.
Choosing to help save or kill Larry is another one of those decisions I think are too early to fully appreciate. You see the immediate effects in Episode 2 and I'm damn sure you'll see them as long as Lily and Kenny are around. Personally, I highly doubt the writers will overlook this. I actually feel very confident that your treatment of the St. John brothers will not be forgotten since their fate carries heavy implications. Without them, the bandits become more aggressive and your group views you as more violent. With them, you gain mortal enemies with nothing left to lose but your humanity is not forgotten.
I'd certainly hope that little things have an impact on your story: how you treat other characters (particularly Clementine) and how hopeful or practical you are should change how others view you.
I give a great benefit of the doubt because it's only Episode 2, but we return to my original point: they have no excuse for linearity after this point. I've already got my seat belt buckled and I'm in for he ride, which I have thoroughly enjoyed so far. If Telltale wants to simply tell a tale, that's what they're doing so far. If they want to live up to their own hype and do something that sets them apart from all the other languorous developers, they'll set the bar for story telling in video games.
Outside observation: if the person your responding to could only type a single worded sentence and you type all of that, I'd say you win by default.
If you're interested in branching narratives, check out what's happening in the interactive fiction world - with only text to create, people can be a lot more free with what they do. http://www.choiceofgames.com/category/our-games/ is one place worth starting. It's a bit of a mixed bag - the early games seem to be largely a case of winning points with ally A, B or C, then picking the right one to side with in the final showdown, with a few cosmetic choices of the sort the people in this thread have been complaining about. The later ones promise to be more ambitious, but I've not explored them fully.
Tho with episode 2 done im starting to see a pattern and thats the "tough/major" choices seem too sort of overwrite the previous big choice as if it dosnt really matter anymore, and the npc/characters just forget past choices and will only remember current choice which imo is a pretty big flaw for such a character story driven game.
It was especially obvious with the meat locker choice in ep2, now that one made no sens to me if you picked Larry/Lilly. Kenny which Lee in my game had supported from the get-go just went completely mental as everything else that had happen between the two during episode 1 and 2 never happen. Kinda awkward, and there was no option to discuss it except more or less calling him coward, wow lol.
It just dosnt seem to handle multi choices very well, like you either stick with one thing or nothing at all. Tho Clem-Clem is remembering pretty well, thats a plus!.
but besides that there isnt a deeper influence after what i have read and after just the first two episodes.
as allways i think about real heavy consequences in such games... if you would do that consistently you would end up with a huge amount of possible storylines (if you can calculate...) or with just some which split up early or at fixed points. both variants doesnt seem practical to me so the social changes might be enough (how the people like you or who is left behind and who not)
what i hated at the end was the larry decision... he will die no matter what and i missed the opportunity to tell kenny to stand ready to drop that saltblock if he turns while lee tries to revive... so i tried that and all my feedback is that larry moans all the time (and probably later on... -.-') what is pretty annoying if you know larry would die anyway.
also i would have liked to say "let us wait a day at the car and when nobody comes we will get it"... just moaning myself
The way it's being marketed, It really sounds like your choices should impact the story but it doesn't at all. Everyone plays the exact same story, the only difference is the way the characters act.
Look at some of this marketing and tell me if I'm wrong.
Remember this screen?
Don't get me wrong, I like the game. It's a great adventure game, and this is what telltale excels at. It's just linear and the marketing is misleading. I had much higher hopes, and to be honest I think TTG did too. There are a few things I noticed that seem to imply a more meaningful decision. For example, what was the purpose of having the dialogue options available to tell the St.Johns "Nobody fucks with our group" or "We have enough people to defend ourselves" if not some device to discourage them from feeding Mark to you?
I expected the game to be like other "interactive dramas" For example, in "Heavy Rain" there is a scene where you run away from the police, and you can get shot, arrested, brought back to the station, and interrogated. You can also escape and skip the police station arc of the story. I was expecting decisions in TWD to be more along the lines of
-Go into Clem's house / Go out the gate and keep looking for help
-Help Larry get meds / Let the fucker die
-Go to the Greene farm / Continue on your own
-Fail to save Clem from walkers --> Instant autosave, Clem permanently dead
-Go upstairs in St.John house to find Mark / Wash hands and eat dinner
-Approach Brenda to rescue Katjaa / Walk away and let her fend for herself
etc, you know, drastic, lasting decisions. They said they want you to think first and think "what have I done" afterward; No "right" decisions etc... So far that hasn't been the case at all.
I know there are 3 episodes left in the season, so I'll keep a hopeful mind, but I am very very confidant there will only be one narrative, and that disappoints me. Someone mentioned the possibility of a Woodbury with Lilly / Boat with Kenny decision in ep.3 and while I am in love with that idea or any other idea that would create a split narrative, We probably won't see it.
And the excuse that "To write multiple narratives would be like writing multiple games, telltale can't do all that for 5 bucks a game, one month per episode isnt enough to do that" etc -- At the release of episode 1, I read TTG would be working simultaneously on ALL the episodes throughout the release period, and that they were all in late phases, so it's not like they're pushing out entire games within a 1-month (lol more like 2-month) agenda.
I'll still play TellTale Games because they are great adventures, but TTG needs to be really careful with their marketing (or hire new marketing people for fucks sake) because so far they have set two really high bars for themselves and failed to meet either of them. (tailored story and monthly releases)
/2cents
I am glad you agree with me.
TTG is a great company but, as it stands now, TWD hasn't really delivered in the sense of branching storylines. The only real differences are whether you saved Carley or Doug, or if you are siding with Lily or Kenny (or remaining neutral altogether). I hope that the first two episodes are setting up for things to come (going with Kenny, going with Lilly, having to go on your own because neither trust you, dealing with the differences between Doug and Carley) but past promises of branching storylines have often gone unfulfilled.
I'm less annoyed by sporadic updates. I'd accept something 3 months late if it delivered.
Even the doug/carley choice doesn't really matter. They serve the exact same role in episode 2. (mouth to feed or not feed / save you at the end). Dougs alarm is cool but it doesnt mean, do, or affect anything at all
you also have to choose to save clem and treat her right
you choose carly or doug that also changing the game ??
really people ?
so IF ttg had made these choices matter more and given us different outcomes what would happen ? well for one ep2 would still be 'coming soon'
also you people seem to be forgetting one thing and that is we are on ep2 waiting for ep3 two episodes in ? really ? your expecting too much from 2 episodes..
ep3 will most likely have some big change being the mid point of the game...
so lilly leaves can lee go with her ? does kenny leave lee behind who knows..we will see
bottom line imo is ttg have a limit on what they can do in the time they have so they have to rail road us somehow other wise the game would take longer...
and ? i said it would take longer ? hence more delays ?
So people want their character's choices to have significant consequences, for there to be multiple paths. I'm guessing you want the plot to branch depending on what Lee chooses to have for breakfast as well... I'm getting a sense of gamer entitlement here. Think about the amount of time it would take to have multiple alternate plots of equal quality that last the duration of the 5 chapters, that only a percentage of players would experience, as opposed to just one. And as for these proposals:
-Go into Clem's house / Go out the gate and keep looking for help
- How the hell are you supposed to play the game if Clementine isn't in it? Isn't she kinda important?
-Help Larry get meds / Let the fucker die
-Hmm well if you didn't get the pills then you would never have set the alarm off, then
the walkers would never come, and Doug/Carley wouldn't die...so the game would just
be dull...
-Go to the Greene farm / Continue on your own
-Then maybe you'd never meet Kenny or end up in Macon and meet the group, then
you'd have a completely different game
-Fail to save Clem from walkers --> Instant autosave, Clem permanently dead
Then the player would feel like shit for the rest of the series...not to mention the loss
of a central character and interrelationship
-Go upstairs in St.John house to find Mark / Wash hands and eat dinner
Why wouldn't you go snooping? Don't you have any curiosity as to why they're not letting you see Mark?
-Approach Brenda to rescue Katjaa / Walk away and let her fend for herself
Fair enough lol, that's pretty reasonable, if a little dickish.
I also believe there should be an option not to unlock the door in the barn, because realistically as guests they're kinda crossing the line, but for the most part limited choices is no big deal for what you're getting.
That said, the decision points we do get should have had a bigger impact.
The one that comes to mind most for me; whether to save Shawn/Duck. I've said it before, I actually would've preferred it if they both ended up dead if you opted to save Shawn, since then the decision does have something resembling an actual consequence that impacts future events. The drug store drama? Gone, or atleast drastically different.
Likewise for the drug store drama itself, if you agree to chuck out Duck, it should actually go forward on that point.
Incidentally, Duck avoids death way too often for me to think it's just a coincidence. I'm of the opinion that the whole reason he doesn't actually die is because he's all the nightmarish horror and entropy of the apocalypse itself made manifest.
Likewise for the Larry decision in the meat locker, hell, either he turns or you actually save him, but the time spent on saving the old guy results in Kenny's wife or kid ending up hurt/dead because you weren't around to help them.
Little things like that would also help with the apparent multiple personality disorder that a character like Kenny suffers from, where some of these decisions would logically be genuine points of no return in how he views you or would go out of his way for you. Seriously, trying to save an elderly man? Unforgiveable! Agreeing to throw his kid out, thereby condemning him to be eaten alive by the living-impaired? Oh, well, you're an ass, but he'll still come back for you.
Rommel makes a good point - certain things just make sense out of necessity, like sticking with a group while you have a leg wound.
It makes perfect sense to investigate Clem's house because you (Lee) have no idea what's going on. Seeing as how you are technically an escaped convict, it makes sense to approach something small - one family - to keep a low profile rather than to walk in the middle of a road with a leg wound.
I feel that stopping at the Greene farm was a necessity due to the leg wound. I disagree with bghjkl; if I had a leg wound like that, I'd let it rest.
I agree that we should have gotten a choice on helping or not helping Larry and what to do at the pharmacy. Even if all it meant was him dying a lot sooner than Episode 2, it still would have made a serious impact on the plot and the other characters. Although, considering that the Meat Locker served the same purpose, this is debatable. The group would have eventually left the pharmacy because it was not a very defensible position and I agree that, with one an axe and one pistol, it would have been abandoned eventually.
While Clementine is indeed a central character, it would drastically change the narrative, how characters view Lee, and how Lee views himself if he failed to save her. Then again, the mini-games aren't really that challenging and saving her isn't that hard. Indeed, this would be a chance to change the narrative in the ways that TTG promised.
One of the things that pissed me off was how you are forced to investigate the farm. I agreed with Lilly - I wanted to just GTFO. I probably would have done something when they refused to hand over Mark - which is probably why they shoehorned you into following Kenny anyway - but again, this is another way to change the narrative and it would not have been that hard to do. Either way you'd figure it out due to Mark's disappearance, but knowing you ate him or not is prime material and I'm shocked TTG didn't use that.
Only a real dick would abandon Katjaa, in my opinion, but I agree that the option should have probably been there. I imagine some people would be more concerned with hunting down the brothers, who are far more dangerous. If this came at the expense of Katjaa's life, the impact on the story kind of explains itself.
Many decisions are purely moral and really only affect how the other characters view you: leaving David, stealing food, siding with this person or that person, and I don't care that they don't have a dramatic impact on the plot because they're not supposed to. Yet, where you'd imagine certain decisions would be different, they are not - so far, where you think your decisions should matter, they really don't because nearly the exact same thing happens regardless of what you do.
Again, I love the game and I'm gonna keep playing it, but TTG should either change their marketing message or fulfill their marketing promises. You can't have your cake and eat it, too if you don't make the cake you want to have and eat. I really want them to live up to their promises because it would make a unique experience and give them a lot of renown to succeed where so many others have failed. Keep in mind: I don't think the others failed because it was too hard, I think they failed because they lacked ambition and, sadly and more often, due to budget restraints and deadlines. I have no idea what the budget or deadline is for TTG, but they should at least be honest with us if they're going to give us something linear.
once you undo the screws if you take a bit too long to move the door andy comes in and tells lee about the bell...
ttg can't win either way, the game is delayed, the game is too short, the game is to linear ( thats point and clicks for ya ) and the choices are blah blah blah.
mass effect cocked up the whole choice thing and thats over 10 times the size of twd.
if you think of twd has a stepping stone to how choices can work future games will do it 'better' but episodic games aren't the best way if there are 'tangents' from each big change requires a new level/map, characters, story plots which = more money spent, more work needed, more testing required etc
and then thats assuming people actually bother to find the different plot lines, you could say 80% of players will just take the existing route and not bother as wha they have is fine and great. so imo thats a waste of resources for the most part..
as i said before it is only ep2 we have 3 more, ttg should be taking note of these comments and doing something about it..
Story-wise it's things like Doug of Carley, did you kill X or Y and so on..
There are also flavour choices, you playing the character you want to be, feeding the children first, how to handle the suicide situation, candy bars...
Occasionaly therse intersect, and that's when the game reacts to who you are.
You've destroyed this group
You're no hero
You murdered Larry
or "..."
I really didn't want to say anything bad, because i knew what he was doing and i know it was wrong but, i didn't wanna say something harsh, i wanted to say something but i could only choose "..."
That's probably the only limited choice I've seen so far.
Right?
The most disconcerting thing to me, when I played through and sided with Lilly, was not that Kenny was mad at me, it was that LEE started to treat him like he was an idiot, despite my Lee having sided with him in all of the other issues. There isn't even a "I understand, even though I don't agree" option in there, at all.
Extreme choices and situations, yes, but schizophrenic character changes? No thank you.
I can imagine that the scene feels right for someone who has been anti-Kenny for the duration of the first two episodes, but if you weren't, the characters feel off. (Almost immersion breaking, in my opinion. At least from a story-telling point of view). The addition of a more neutral dialogue for both Kenny and Lee depending on the established relationship would have been welcome in my book.
It could have been as simple as omitting the vitriolic auto-dialogue exchange in the barn, and adding a less condescending (maybe even more understanding) remark on the walk back to the motor inn.
on my first ep2 run i a'tried to save larry on the princaple that even tho larry was an asshole and we all wanted him to die i wanted to save to see what would happen give lilly some hope..
but no ttg made kenny worse than larry by jumping the gun and ending it.
then on leaving the farm i saw these options and almost let the time run out as i was like WTF ttg You give us these options ?!?!?!
the softest option is saying your no hero lee sort of reasons with kenny but the 'damage is done'
i would of prefered a
'fuck man, i know larry was a threat and all but dayum could of least given us a chance to see if he could be saved instead of just dropping the bomb on him' will redo the choices to see if that happens
Example 1. Save Shawn – nothing changes at all, you get told to leave the farm either way the only difference is one bit of dialogue in episode 2 from Kenny.
How it should have been. Kenny really acts different minus that one bit of dialogue.
Example 2. Save Doug or Carly, (Telltale preached that one of the people you saved would make a big difference next episode) but nope. They both basically did the same thing, they just saved you with different weapons.
How it should have been. When you save one of the characters actually allow the story to change, just a tad, if you say it will please let it!
The options for how their stories could have branched out are endless, yet they basically did the same thing and played background parts.
Example 3. Play mean or nice, however you play the story stays the same, everything happens exactly the same way bar a few different dialogue choices that don’t really affect any one.
How it should have been. See Dead State, Project Zomboid and how they will create good NPC interaction. Sure this is a story driven game but one spout how different each players experience will be when it ends up just as limited if not even less so than Heavy Rain.
Example 4. Save Larry. Well he dies either way… Lame.
How it should have been. If you actually save him he lives, he can call you over at the end of episode 2 as he did in 1 but this time he offers you a hand and thanks you for saving him. You have lived with him for 3 months saved his life twice and his finally starting to give you the benefit of the doubt. That is character development, not I’m angry I don’t trust you… even when we spend 3 months together my opinion never changes.
It seems like episode 2 takes place straight after episode 1 (minus the new useless guy) since everyone seems to have the same opinions, nobody had developed at all within those 3 months.
Take Shawn. Yeah, he dies either way, but in one reality Kenny is pissed at your for not trying to save his son and in the other he's not.
Take Carley and Doug. Yeah, they fill the same role, but they're two different people.
In one reality Clem eats human meat while in another she doesn't.
In one reality Lee might be vengeful while in another he's forgiving.
Major plot points and story developments may stay the same but the story does change.
It's like life: we're all born and die and nothing we do in-between will change that but your journey is largely up to you.
spot on
The thing is some people would still complain even if we got lot's of differences, they'd say theres too many options with not enough space to explore them in (3 saves) unless your tech savvy and move them around..
then thats open to bugs and issues.. oh wait..
so even if they gave us more saves slots and fixed the ps3 save issue . what would happen ?
there'd be more complaints about delays to put all this stuff in.. oh wait...
then after all that they'd then pick up on the lack of info.. oh wait...
then it would be an issue with the gameplay/graphics... oh wait...
so what esle is there ? the price/sale, no season pass for xbox, oh wait...
and when ttg do say stuff it's always mis understood....catch my drift...
Or they shouldn't have said that all choices matter and change the game for each player... oh wait...
They shouldn't have acted like they had created a great story driven game with branching paths for people to enjoy... oh wait...
There would not be any complaints about delays if they had stuck to their original dates... oh wait...
When Telltale does say stuff it's misunderstood because they purposely bend the truth to help sales, that's not a bad thing since they are business men.
When episode one came out everyone was under the impression that each play through would be vastly different, but we all learnt that was not the case.
I'm not sure why anyone would complain that there are lots of different branching stories it would just give more replay value. Unlike what we have now.
so, if person a) saves duck, goes pro kenny, saves doug
then person b) saves shawn, goes pro larry, saves carley
thats still different..it sounded like they promised more..
yes the game is story driven, how you rate it is your personal opinion and i say it's great and i enjoy it..
Just saiyan.
if the game was the exact same the stats wouldn't change..
if there is no impact, why bother with the choices at all ?
Even having played the first two episodes through a few times, I get responses from characters that surprise me. The psychology is interesting.
Larry is a selfish bastard and only views Lee as a murderer and nothing will change that. Even If you agree with him at pharmacy. If Larry changes his view upon Lee simply because he agrees with him would be silly and then you would be complaining how Larry changes his perspective on things too quickly which would be similar to Glenn having two different perspective. Yet I would expect Larry treats you with a little respect for siding with him but he's too ignorant.
I have to disagree what you said about Glenn. Think about it, wouldn't you be conflicted if you had to witness the choices play out with handing her the gun? Glenn isn't the best in situations like this and all he is showing is doubt and he wonders what would happen if you handed her the gun or not. Really it's perfect character development because it shows Glenn views things from all angles and ponders what would happen if things went the other way around. All Glenn was doing is asking Lee why he hadn't done the opposite thing, that only shows his concern, not opinion on the ordeal/situation.
I haven't read the comics but being particularly intrigued by Glenn's conflict before leaving, I checked his Wiki page. His conflict and Larry's death in the game seem to nicely foreshadow Glenn successfully resuscitating his wife after her suicide attempt in the comics, which I thought was neat.
Lets not compare mass effect (rpg/shooter) to the walking dead (as you say point and click), completely different apart from you have the choice of speech (which is good guy/bad guy, so again different to twd). TTG also promised (an overused wordhere lol) tailored storyline development, ive played about 6 different run throughs, probably more, and it is similar outcomes each time, which is a bit cheeky, but I do enjoy discovering all the dialogue to try and piece the story together so far.