@shadowflux: i'll repeat myself again... I don't want an open world, i have skyrim for that, i don't want an RPG, i will have baldur's gate redux for that and i already have the witcher 2, i want an adventure game where my choices tailor the story.
I have nothing to say about characters death, at last as long as it suits the story.
@deadfan: i remember the old dragon's lair ^^ (the first one of course...)
I agree with you, in fact all decisions are impactless now (at last until we see the end but i don't expect better than that). Their is no good or bad answer, good or bad choices, the STORY never change (and yes, i repeat again, the story, not events, not diaogues). I wasn't expecting a second path in the game (like the witcher 2) but at last, a change in the cast (Carley/Doug) changing a little bit the rest.
But no...
You have an impact in the game same as you would on the comic: nothing...
You can play the game without answering anything to anyone. What is TWD ? An adventure game or an comic with little interaction ?
i believe episode 3 has proven that your choices don't matter, there has not been one choice that has changed the story in any way, you might as well just choose randomly, nothing you say or do has any affect even what you say to Clementine i am 99% sure has no affect, now the problem with going forward is that every time i get a "choice" i wont really care about what i choose because it doesn't change anything anyway.
i might as well be playing a normal point and click adventure game, and if i judge it by that criteria it has a great story but very poor puzzles
In reading the earlier responses I do applaud TellTale for allowing for these subtle behavior differences in the dialogue, as it really helps shape my perception of the story on the outcome. My frustration remains however is that it's thinly veiled behind a storyline that will not change materially. Still there's good things in this mechanic and I hope TellTale takes this feedback to enhance it on further episodes.
The biggest problem about choices in video games is pretty easily shown with a little math.
In episode 1 and 2:
Say there were 10 choices with 2 possible outcomes(PO) that had a full game impact (i.e. safe Carley/Doug), 4 choices with 3 possible outcomes and 2 choices with even 4 possible outcomes just so we make sure pretty much everyone has a total unique experience.
Telltale would now already have to deal with 1.024 impact choices just from 2 PO choices (10^2).
Now come the 3 PO choices and these already have a real impact. They will rise the possible outcomes to 82.944, and adding the 4 PO choices will give Telltale the final number of 1.327.104 possible outcomes and game scenes to deal with, while still staying on track to keep the story together.
Even keeping it really civil, say we choose 4 choices with 2 PO and 2 with 3 PO, we still end up with 144 outcomes, game scenes, conversations and what not.
For now, this is an impossible task as most people should be able to understand.
I think Telltale closely watches what most players do and tailors the story around these choices, and that is how their statement should be understood.
people realize there is literally no choice in the game besides seeing Carley or Doug live an extra 6 months, or seeing Clem wearing a hoodie or not. This game was advertised pretty much as a choice type of game, NOT an interactive movie/adventure. If it was advertised as an interactive movie/adventure I would be perfectly fine with it.
To sum it up, No matter what you do, no matter how you treat ANY character in this game, when it comes for them to make an important decision for you or the group , they only have 1 choice.
Odds are if you were a 100% dick to Kenny he will still let you ride on his boat if Kenny even makes it that far and if they even make it to the boat.
Hopefully Season 2 TTG will have more of a budget, and there will be more choice to the game.
Yes, SURE, the changed dialogue is awesome, but still, its only a little bit, and NONE of those changed dialogue parts actually changed anything in the story besides convincing Clem to take the supplies and then she wears a hoodie.
Alright, yes, "Welcome to the Walking Dead, where people often die!" But this isn't the issue, TTG is the issue when your choices don't mean shit!
Again, i agree with you deadfan, nothing more to say, i would just add :the voice acting is really good.
@thestalkinghead: The second problem is the replayability. Now it's close to zero...
@8bit system: Stop exagerating please... Nobody ask for such thing ^^!
I (and other i suppose) don't ask for such numerous outcome, look at my precedent post: i just ask to decide ONE time who live and who die and see consequences and outcomes until the end. None choice impact anything in the STORY. What we see in Playing Dead ? What we see when we launch the game ?
Story will be tailored by our choice.
So are we asking for the impossible ? Tellatale made the choice to say that but i can't see it anywhere in the game. What choice change anything ? (beside clem hoodie, which is just a graphical change) So our feedback is unjustified ?
The biggest problem about choices in video games is pretty easily shown with a little math.
In episode 1 and 2:
Say there were 10 choices with 2 possible outcomes(PO) that had a full game impact (i.e. safe Carley/Doug), 4 choices with 3 possible outcomes and 2 choices with even 4 possible outcomes just so we make sure pretty much everyone has a total unique experience.
Telltale would now already have to deal with 1.024 impact choices just from 2 PO choices (10^2).
Now come the 3 PO choices and these already have a real impact. They will rise the possible outcomes to 82.944, and adding the 4 PO choices will give Telltale the final number of 1.327.104 possible outcomes and game scenes to deal with, while still staying on track to keep the story together.
Even keeping it really civil, say we choose 4 choices with 2 PO and 2 with 3 PO, we still end up with 144 outcomes, game scenes, conversations and what not.
For now, this is an impossible task as most people should be able to understand.
I think Telltale closely watches what most players do and tailors the story around these choices, and that is how their statement should be understood.
Omg I love this extremist... You make it sounds like middle way doesnt exist.
The biggest problem about choices in video games is pretty easily shown with a little math.
In episode 1 and 2:
Say there were 10 choices with 2 possible outcomes(PO) that had a full game impact (i.e. safe Carley/Doug), 4 choices with 3 possible outcomes and 2 choices with even 4 possible outcomes just so we make sure pretty much everyone has a total unique experience.
Telltale would now already have to deal with 1.024 impact choices just from 2 PO choices (10^2).
Now come the 3 PO choices and these already have a real impact. They will rise the possible outcomes to 82.944, and adding the 4 PO choices will give Telltale the final number of 1.327.104 possible outcomes and game scenes to deal with, while still staying on track to keep the story together.
Even keeping it really civil, say we choose 4 choices with 2 PO and 2 with 3 PO, we still end up with 144 outcomes, game scenes, conversations and what not.
For now, this is an impossible task as most people should be able to understand.
I think Telltale closely watches what most players do and tailors the story around these choices, and that is how their statement should be understood.
its not an impossible task and not every choice will affect every other choice, and obviously there will be some things that they would always make us do, but what would have been so hard about giving doug or carley their own mission and making it so they have there own death not just identical copies. the fact is telltale make the world that Lee is in so they can easily give us choices that avoid interacting with other choices we could make.
and even if that means its is similar to making 3-4 games, thats fine because i have seen adventure games with way more scenes way more characters and not a bigger budget, why cant i have a choice of going north or south and then from that point have a very different story to the other choice, they could still meet up again but as long as there were some lasting affects of the choices you make it would make the choices matter.
The biggest problem about choices in video games is pretty easily shown with a little math.
In episode 1 and 2:
Say there were 10 choices with 2 possible outcomes(PO) that had a full game impact (i.e. safe Carley/Doug), 4 choices with 3 possible outcomes and 2 choices with even 4 possible outcomes just so we make sure pretty much everyone has a total unique experience.
Telltale would now already have to deal with 1.024 impact choices just from 2 PO choices (10^2).
Now come the 3 PO choices and these already have a real impact. They will rise the possible outcomes to 82.944, and adding the 4 PO choices will give Telltale the final number of 1.327.104 possible outcomes and game scenes to deal with, while still staying on track to keep the story together.
Even keeping it really civil, say we choose 4 choices with 2 PO and 2 with 3 PO, we still end up with 144 outcomes, game scenes, conversations and what not.
For now, this is an impossible task as most people should be able to understand.
I think Telltale closely watches what most players do and tailors the story around these choices, and that is how their statement should be understood.
QFT
Seriously, you're spot on, man. It's too fantastical for us to ask for a story with so many variables. I agree, it sucks to look past the illusion of freedom, but it just can't happen.
@8bit system: Stop exagerating please... Nobody ask for such thing ^^!
I (and other i suppose) don't ask for such numerous outcome, look at my precedent post: i just ask to decide ONE time who live and who die and see consequences and outcomes until the end. None choice impact anything in the STORY. What we see in Playing Dead ? What we see when we launch the game ?
Story will be tailored by our choice.
So are we asking for the impossible ? Tellatale made the choice to say that but i can't see it anywhere in the game. What choice change anything ? (beside clem hoodie, which is just a graphical change) So our feedback is unjustified ?
I'm not so sure about that. Telltale do the little extras for your choices, that definitely alter the storyline, not the global story, but the personal relations. Something The Walking Dead was always about.
Also, I am pretty sure that Telltale uses the recorded choices not to look at them and compare their boners on who's idea was best, but to "read" the players and react accordingly in future episodes. So by my definition, they tailor the story by our choice.
Omg I love this extremist... You make it sounds like middle way doesnt exist.
It's not extremist in the least bit. I was only giving numbers and I bet there are quite a few people out there that are not aware how fast numbers sum up, reading some of the posts on this forum.
As you can see, the civil way is the least a lot of guys are asking for... still a huge amount of work, if at all possible.
In my oppinion Telltale delivers very well. Of course I would wish for some more freedom here and there, but I also knew what to expect.
@8Bit System and Rodia: So if i understand correctly we are asking too much ^^?
But in this case why they said we can impact the story with our choice ? Now we see the reality and our feedback are asking why. And Tellatalle can't take our stats for tailoring the game now, the last episode in already in production so this argument is invalid...
So, before it was the "welcome in TWD world, everyone die", now we have a "don't ask for the impossible". I don't ask for the impossible, i ask for what i was advertised multiple times... Nothing more but also nothing less.
Thanks for reading
Edit: i may ask a lot but can we have an advice by a team member of Tellatale ? Just to know what they mean by "tailored by the players choices"and what to expect now.
its not an impossible task and not every choice will affect every other choice, and obviously there will be some things that they would always make us do, but what would have been so hard about giving doug or carley their own mission and making it so they have there own death not just identical copies. the fact is telltale make the world that Lee is in so they can easily give us choices that avoid interacting with other choices we could make.
Well, in my example the choices DO affect each other, as that is what many people cried for.
Choosing A will take you on a different path then choosing B, both scenes will now have totally independent new choices.
I totally agree with you on Doug's and Carley's death scenes and probably to a lot more of criticism that is around on these forums, but that was not the point of my post, I just explained something many guys around don't seem to get.
and even if that means its is similar to making 3-4 games, thats fine because i have seen adventure games with way more scenes way more characters and not a bigger budget, why cant i have a choice of going north or south and then from that point have a very different story to the other choice, they could still meet up again but as long as there were some lasting affects of the choices you make it would make the choices matter.
More scenes, more characters, yes. On the other hand there are very few with better, or even equally good storytelling around.
How many adventure (or in fact any) games would you come up with that deliver the "north/south" choice? I can't really think of any right now.
I'm not so sure about that. Telltale do the little extras for your choices, that definitely alter the storyline, not the global story, but the personal relations. Something The Walking Dead was always about.
Also, I am pretty sure that Telltale uses the recorded choices not to look at them and compare their boners on who's idea was best, but to "read" the players and react accordingly in future episodes. So by my definition, they tailor the story by our choice.
It's not extremist in the least bit. I was only giving numbers and I bet there are quite a few people out there that are not aware how fast numbers sum up, reading some of the posts on this forum.
As you can see, the civil way is the least a lot of guys are asking for... still a huge amount of work, if at all possible.
In my oppinion Telltale delivers very well. Of course I would wish for some more freedom here and there, but I also knew what to expect.
I know your number was right if you wanna make every choice impacting story but its probably too much. Still there are way to keep it nonlinear but ofcourse it will need more work invest in it... At least 2 storyline per ep would be great but it also have to been think out before start.
@8Bit System and Rodia: So if i understand correctly we are asking too much ^^?
But in this case why they said we can impact the story with our choice ? Now we see the reality and our feedback are asking why. And Tellatalle can't take our stats for tailoring the game now, the last episode in already in production so this argument is invalid...
They can use the stats, in production does not mean finished. If it was finished you would be playing it right now.
Also, it was never intended to tell you or anyone off, or telling you that you are wrong about every complaint. It is JUST a post to show some people why certain things are not possible, and maybe, just maybe someone will alter his views slightly, and if not... so what?!
The biggest problem about choices in video games is pretty easily shown with a little math.
In episode 1 and 2:
Say there were 10 choices with 2 possible outcomes(PO) that had a full game impact (i.e. safe Carley/Doug), 4 choices with 3 possible outcomes and 2 choices with even 4 possible outcomes just so we make sure pretty much everyone has a total unique experience.
Telltale would now already have to deal with 1.024 impact choices just from 2 PO choices (10^2).
Now come the 3 PO choices and these already have a real impact. They will rise the possible outcomes to 82.944, and adding the 4 PO choices will give Telltale the final number of 1.327.104 possible outcomes and game scenes to deal with, while still staying on track to keep the story together.
Even keeping it really civil, say we choose 4 choices with 2 PO and 2 with 3 PO, we still end up with 144 outcomes, game scenes, conversations and what not.
For now, this is an impossible task as most people should be able to understand.
I think Telltale closely watches what most players do and tailors the story around these choices, and that is how their statement should be understood.
You'd be right if these consequences rippled throughout the whole game, but that's not what people are disappointed by.
Here's an example of something that wouldn't require a lot of change, but would add that extra touch that's currently missing. At the beginning of episode 2, you're faced with the decision to cut off the foot of the band director, David. If you don't, Travis, the other student, freaks out and winds up getting shot. He dies on the operating table, so to speak, and serves as a lesson to the group about the reality of infection.
If you do save David, Travis is rather clumsily dispatched from a writing perspective by inexplicably tripping and being devoured. This immediately synchronizes the outcomes of your choice, creating a symmetrical gameplay experience that's easier to write, but less meaningful to the players.
A nice touch that probably wouldn't have added a ton to development time or cost would have been to have Travis survive if you cut David free, and join you on the trip to the farm with Ben. At that point, he would join you and Mark as you clear off the zombies from the fence, but is killed by the first volley of arrows from the bandits. He then becomes one of the zombies chasing you during the tractor escape scene.
In this scenario, there doesn't have to much more in the way of dialogue added to the game, and though there's a bit more character modeling, the asymmetry of experience does add quite a bit of variety to my playthrough compared with someone else. And there's no fundamental change in the story.
TTG does this in minor ways throughout the game, but usually the effects of a decision are immediately played out and then synchronized within the same scene. Many of us would like to see a bit more. You want us to wind up with the same end state for a particular decision? Okay, but let our choices dictate a more varied route to arrive there. Right now, there just aren't enough routes.
Well, in my example the choices DO affect each other, as that is what many people cried for.
Not it this thread... The feedback is focused on the fact that NONE of the choices impact (or tailor if you want) anything in the STORY. It's slightly different...
The game was selled like (and i'd worked for a video game company before) a choice based story (or the old "you are the hero" books if you prefer). I was not expecting TWD to be like an AAA game, just a cool game based on a franchise I like wich I can influence the story a little.
But in fact, no matter what you do, you have zero impact and it was not the game i was advertised. ^^
Edit: i have never said the fourth was finished, just the 5th is already in prod, again, it's slighty different...
This game is extremely light on gameplay. A few quicktime events and some clicking get you through the zombie encounters. The puzzles are extremely simple and require almost no problem solving ability. The only thing that was left to make this game different or endearing was the potential of the choice system which turned out to be just cosmetic.
This, this, this and this.
The game doesn't have anything going for it in regards to the gameplay, so it heavily relies on having a good storyline and being very interactive.
If the choices aren't supposed to be that important, then why was this advertised as one of the main parts of the game?
The point that telltale had been making with the entire game was the fact that it was supposed to have choices. If somebody's talking a lot about a particular feature of a game, does that not make you think that this feature of the game should be important?
How many times can i find the "choices" feature being mentioned?
Hmm.
-Once clearly at the start of every episode, which would mean a total of 5 times.
-At least once quite clearly on the main website.
-Twice on the steam page. Under KEY FEATURES.
"A tailored game experience – Live with the profound and lasting consequences of the decisions that you make in each episode. Your actions and choices will affect how your story plays out across the entire series."
"You’ll be forced to make decisions that are not only difficult, but that will require you to make an almost immediate choice. There’s no time to ponder when the undead are pounding the door down!"
"Features meaningful decision-making, exploration, problem solving and a constant fight for survival in a world overrun by the undead"
The way the choices are described as being "tailored" also sounds more specific to me than just "the choices you make may affect how the game plays"
If they hadn't heavily advertised the game as such, then this wouldn't be as much of a problem, if one at all.
I'm also not saying that this is a TERRIBLE game. Like i said yesterday in another thread, the problem is the same as duke nukem forever. The last 2 episodes raised the bar, that and with the delayed release, the 3rd episode just didn't live up to it.
Heavy rain, although made by AAA developers, did the choices well. People were lead to believe that TWD would be doing something similar with its game mechanics. The difference is, TWD only has choices that are about as game changing as resident evil 3's (1999) (a game which didn't even advertise the choices as it's main feature) and not anything close to heavy rain's (2010, even that was made over 2 years ago now)
Oh, and i don't think that ANYBODY was seriously expecting telltale to do the impossible and have something like over 10 different endings. That's just insane and not even heavy rain had that many endings. I think that EVERYBODY would be happy if this game had even 2 different endings or just 2 different major changes through the whole game (and not just a change that looked like it was going to be a major change only for it to merge with the other choice halfway through the game)
@8Bit_System Math has nothing to do with the whole thing, you can observe it of course from that point of view just to prove that "it is not possible" but if TellTale are smart enough (which I actually believe in) they would have divided the story in two streams without applying math. Just collect choices in two groups with some kind of logic and algorithm or I don't know what and divide the story in two streams. We don't want thousands of outcomes, we just want to see that we can influence something else than someone to tell me that I'm an asshole because I've chosen to be rude with him instead of telling him the truth. I have zero motivation of replaying the previous two episodes again and why? Because of course I can see different cut scenes and different reactions. But for what? Just to end there where I will end anyway? What's the point of making decisions when you know that everything will happen anyway? Isn't that a little bit demotivating?
You'd be right if these consequences rippled throughout the whole game, but that's not what people are disappointed by.
Here's an example of something that wouldn't require a lot of change, but would add that extra touch that's currently missing. At the beginning of episode 2, you're faced with the decision to cut off the foot of the band director, David. If you don't, Travis, the other student, freaks out and winds up getting shot. He dies on the operating table, so to speak, and serves as a lesson to the group about the reality of infection.
If you do save David, Travis is rather clumsily dispatched from a writing perspective by inexplicably tripping and being devoured. This immediately synchronizes the outcomes of your choice, creating a symmetrical gameplay experience that's easier to write, but less meaningful to the players.
A nice touch that probably wouldn't have added a ton to development time or cost would have been to have Travis survive if you cut David free, and join you on the trip to the farm with Ben. At that point, he would join you and Mark as you clear off the zombies from the fence, but is killed by the first volley of arrows from the bandits. He then becomes one of the zombies chasing you during the tractor escape scene.
In this scenario, there doesn't have to much more in the way of dialogue added to the game, and though there's a bit more character modeling, the asymmetry of experience does add quite a bit of variety to my playthrough compared with someone else. And there's no fundamental change in the story.
TTG does this in minor ways throughout the game, but usually the effects of a decision are immediately played out and then synchronized within the same scene. Many of us would like to see a bit more. You want us to wind up with the same end state for a particular decision? Okay, but let our choices dictate a more varied route to arrive there. Right now, there's aren't enough routes.
Your statement is pretty much what I wanted to achieve with my first post. Well thought through and well explained... also a really constructive criticism for Telltale. I would absolutly sign your idea!
If we dont talk about sandbox and freedom games. Original war just come in my mind...
That is legit of course, it is a lot easier to do in a RTS game though, as you "just" throw the player on a different map (if at all) and alter the missions.
@8Bit System and Rodia: So if i understand correctly we are asking too much ^^?
But in this case why they said we can impact the story with our choice ? Now we see the reality and our feedback are asking why. And Tellatalle can't take our stats for tailoring the game now, the last episode in already in production so this argument is invalid...
So, before it was the "welcome in TWD world, everyone die", now we have a "don't ask for the impossible". I don't ask for the impossible, i ask for what i was advertised multiple times... Nothing more but also nothing less.
Thanks for reading
Edit: i may ask a lot but can we have an advice by a team member of Tellatale ? Just to know what they mean by "tailored by the players choices"and what to expect now.
It's called "Advertisement". Just try not to go "Mass Effect 3 Ending raging fan" and file a lawsuit on TTGs for this.. I'm already ashamed of humanity as it is..
It's called "Advertisement". Just try not to go "Mass Effect 3 Ending raging fan" and file a lawsuit on TTGs for this.. I'm already ashamed of humanity as it is..
I've noticed the replies you get from most defenders is either "Don't be mad bro just because a character you liked died", or "it would be impossible for that much story branching".
The first group of people just don't seem even bother reading peoples complaints, refuse to believe people dislike their precious game and act like the only reason for complaints are character deaths being "to emotional for the gamer" lol.
The second group of people seem to be blind to all the times Telltale spoke about how choice will change each players game, how different each of are playthrough's will be or just pretend it was never stated.
Logical discussions are hard to be had on this board... fanboys be going mad.
That is legit of course, it is a lot easier to do in a RTS game though, as you "just" throw the player on a different map (if at all) and alter the missions.
yeah you are probably right but original war is out already some years and also the characters you saved in one mission did continue with you to next mission. And the game had 4 endings. Its mostly just example...
@8Bit_System Math has nothing to do with the whole thing, you can observe it of course from that point of view just to prove that "it is not possible" but if TellTale are smart enough (which I actually believe in) they would have divided the story in two streams without applying math. Just collect choices in two groups with some kind of logic and algorithm or I don't know what and divide the story in two streams. We don't want thousands of outcomes, we just want to see that we can influence something else than someone to tell me that I'm an asshole because I've chosen to be rude with him instead of telling him the truth. I have zero motivation of replaying the previous two episodes again and why? Because of course I can see different cut scenes and different reactions. But for what? Just to end there where I will end anyway? What's the point of making decisions when you know that everything will happen anyway? Isn't that a little bit demotivating?
Yes, it is demotivating. Still, we are talking about a $25 game here. We are not talking Heavy Rain (which I sadly could only watch on Youtube as there's no PS3 around), that has been in development for four years and cost around $60-70 when it came out.
@rodia : I invite you to read the good post of sentient orange (second off the page). You will see what i mean by advertissment ^^.
Edit: and i have a brain lol i will not make lawsuit ^^, but i don't think i will make a good critic of the tellatale products nor advise to purchase their products, bad mouth to ears is bad.
PS: i think it's a great discussion here, at last civil, calm and construcive. COOOOL !! ^^ (malcom thinks you are awesome lol)
Yes, it is demotivating. Still, we are talking about a $25 game here. We are not talking Heavy Rain (which I sadly could only watch on Youtube as there's no PS3 around), that has been in development for four years and cost around $60-70 when it came out.
But they could have made it with two outcomes which are not that different. Just leave in both of them some element which is a little bit more significant for the story than the hoody of Clem. And that element to be based on the decisions which you've made. Because at this point there isn't such an element.
Yes, it is demotivating. Still, we are talking about a $25 game here. We are not talking Heavy Rain (which I sadly could only watch on Youtube as there's no PS3 around), that has been in development for four years and cost around $60-70 when it came out.
25 dollar game or not they claimed to a lot of things that they never delivered on. The price we pay does not matter its all about what they promised us at purchase.
yeah you are probably right but original war is out already some years and also the characters you saved in one mission did continue with you to next mission. And the game had 4 endings. Its mostly just example...
I just googled it, looks like a neat game. I wasn't trying to talk it down at all.
Food that says: "No preservatives" is usually packed with them, they just use stuff that doesn't have to be declared yet.
Cream is skimmed because the industry decided the customer doesn't want the creamy rim anymore. Stupid thing is, now you can't whip it anymore... oh wait... we have carrageenan, a chemical substance that helps us here... not healthy at all. Did anyone ever tell you about that on the ads?
People don't care what they eat, but go crazy about a game ad? Please...
Food that says: "No preservatives" is usually packed with them, they just use stuff that doesn't have to be declared yet.
Cream is skimmed because the industry decided the customer doesn't want the creamy rim anymore. Stupid thing is, now you can't whip it anymore... oh wait... we have carrageenan, a chemical substance that helps us here... not healthy at all. Did anyone ever tell you about that on the ads?
People don't care what they eat, but go crazy about a game ad? Please...
+ 1
Maybe we just wrongly understood TTG maybe they thought that choice is about you will become hater or liker and after its true it will change outcome of whole season:D
25 dollar game or not they claimed to a lot of things that they never delivered on. The price we pay does not matter its all about what they promised us at purchase.
I really can't help you out here, don't preorder something if you're not sure what you are getting. Wait for the game to come out, take a read, take a look, and then decide.
I'm waiting for WarZ right now, but I will probably not preorder as I am just not sure how it will turn out, and what the playerbase will be like.
If I don't like it when I've taken a closer look, I will not buy it... simple thing.
Maybe we just wrongly understood TTG maybe they thought that choice is about you will become hater or liker and after its true it will change outcome of whole season:D
I just googled it, looks like a neat game. I wasn't trying to talk it down at all.
You buy false advertisement every day.
Food that says: "No preservatives" is usually packed with them, they just use stuff that doesn't have to be declared yet.
Cream is skimmed because the industry decided the customer doesn't want the creamy rim anymore. Stupid thing is, now you can't whip it anymore... oh wait... we have carrageenan, a chemical substance that helps us here... not healthy at all. Did anyone ever tell you about that on the ads?
People don't care what they eat, but go crazy about a game ad? Please...
if they had advertised it as "TWD game an interactive story based on TWD comic"
but had not said that it was tailored by your game play and that choices matter, i would not have expected any more than an interactive story
So we should just shut up and quit complaining in the company's forums, that we didn't got that what they promised and we paid for?
Fact is that this game is extreme light on gameplay like mentioned, and only excels in storytelling and the supposed changing story.
If you chop one of the main features off, then what is left?
Comments
I have nothing to say about characters death, at last as long as it suits the story.
@deadfan: i remember the old dragon's lair ^^ (the first one of course...)
I agree with you, in fact all decisions are impactless now (at last until we see the end but i don't expect better than that). Their is no good or bad answer, good or bad choices, the STORY never change (and yes, i repeat again, the story, not events, not diaogues). I wasn't expecting a second path in the game (like the witcher 2) but at last, a change in the cast (Carley/Doug) changing a little bit the rest.
But no...
You have an impact in the game same as you would on the comic: nothing...
You can play the game without answering anything to anyone. What is TWD ? An adventure game or an comic with little interaction ?
Its hybrid weak adventure overaimed at story
That's true to an extent.
i might as well be playing a normal point and click adventure game, and if i judge it by that criteria it has a great story but very poor puzzles
In episode 1 and 2:
Say there were 10 choices with 2 possible outcomes(PO) that had a full game impact (i.e. safe Carley/Doug), 4 choices with 3 possible outcomes and 2 choices with even 4 possible outcomes just so we make sure pretty much everyone has a total unique experience.
Telltale would now already have to deal with 1.024 impact choices just from 2 PO choices (10^2).
Now come the 3 PO choices and these already have a real impact. They will rise the possible outcomes to 82.944, and adding the 4 PO choices will give Telltale the final number of 1.327.104 possible outcomes and game scenes to deal with, while still staying on track to keep the story together.
Even keeping it really civil, say we choose 4 choices with 2 PO and 2 with 3 PO, we still end up with 144 outcomes, game scenes, conversations and what not.
For now, this is an impossible task as most people should be able to understand.
I think Telltale closely watches what most players do and tailors the story around these choices, and that is how their statement should be understood.
To sum it up, No matter what you do, no matter how you treat ANY character in this game, when it comes for them to make an important decision for you or the group , they only have 1 choice.
Odds are if you were a 100% dick to Kenny he will still let you ride on his boat if Kenny even makes it that far and if they even make it to the boat.
Hopefully Season 2 TTG will have more of a budget, and there will be more choice to the game.
Yes, SURE, the changed dialogue is awesome, but still, its only a little bit, and NONE of those changed dialogue parts actually changed anything in the story besides convincing Clem to take the supplies and then she wears a hoodie.
Alright, yes, "Welcome to the Walking Dead, where people often die!" But this isn't the issue, TTG is the issue when your choices don't mean shit!
@thestalkinghead: The second problem is the replayability. Now it's close to zero...
@8bit system: Stop exagerating please... Nobody ask for such thing ^^!
I (and other i suppose) don't ask for such numerous outcome, look at my precedent post: i just ask to decide ONE time who live and who die and see consequences and outcomes until the end. None choice impact anything in the STORY. What we see in Playing Dead ? What we see when we launch the game ?
Story will be tailored by our choice.
So are we asking for the impossible ? Tellatale made the choice to say that but i can't see it anywhere in the game. What choice change anything ? (beside clem hoodie, which is just a graphical change) So our feedback is unjustified ?
Omg I love this extremist... You make it sounds like middle way doesnt exist.
its not an impossible task and not every choice will affect every other choice, and obviously there will be some things that they would always make us do, but what would have been so hard about giving doug or carley their own mission and making it so they have there own death not just identical copies. the fact is telltale make the world that Lee is in so they can easily give us choices that avoid interacting with other choices we could make.
and even if that means its is similar to making 3-4 games, thats fine because i have seen adventure games with way more scenes way more characters and not a bigger budget, why cant i have a choice of going north or south and then from that point have a very different story to the other choice, they could still meet up again but as long as there were some lasting affects of the choices you make it would make the choices matter.
QFT
Seriously, you're spot on, man. It's too fantastical for us to ask for a story with so many variables. I agree, it sucks to look past the illusion of freedom, but it just can't happen.
Also, I am pretty sure that Telltale uses the recorded choices not to look at them and compare their boners on who's idea was best, but to "read" the players and react accordingly in future episodes. So by my definition, they tailor the story by our choice.
It's not extremist in the least bit. I was only giving numbers and I bet there are quite a few people out there that are not aware how fast numbers sum up, reading some of the posts on this forum.
As you can see, the civil way is the least a lot of guys are asking for... still a huge amount of work, if at all possible.
In my oppinion Telltale delivers very well. Of course I would wish for some more freedom here and there, but I also knew what to expect.
But in this case why they said we can impact the story with our choice ? Now we see the reality and our feedback are asking why. And Tellatalle can't take our stats for tailoring the game now, the last episode in already in production so this argument is invalid...
So, before it was the "welcome in TWD world, everyone die", now we have a "don't ask for the impossible". I don't ask for the impossible, i ask for what i was advertised multiple times... Nothing more but also nothing less.
Thanks for reading
Edit: i may ask a lot but can we have an advice by a team member of Tellatale ? Just to know what they mean by "tailored by the players choices"and what to expect now.
Choosing A will take you on a different path then choosing B, both scenes will now have totally independent new choices.
I totally agree with you on Doug's and Carley's death scenes and probably to a lot more of criticism that is around on these forums, but that was not the point of my post, I just explained something many guys around don't seem to get.
More scenes, more characters, yes. On the other hand there are very few with better, or even equally good storytelling around.
How many adventure (or in fact any) games would you come up with that deliver the "north/south" choice? I can't really think of any right now.
I know your number was right if you wanna make every choice impacting story but its probably too much. Still there are way to keep it nonlinear but ofcourse it will need more work invest in it... At least 2 storyline per ep would be great but it also have to been think out before start.
well that depends, but does it matter?, i didn't know a game had to be a copy of another game else it couldn't be done
Also, it was never intended to tell you or anyone off, or telling you that you are wrong about every complaint. It is JUST a post to show some people why certain things are not possible, and maybe, just maybe someone will alter his views slightly, and if not... so what?!
If we dont talk about sandbox and freedom games. Original war just come in my mind...
You'd be right if these consequences rippled throughout the whole game, but that's not what people are disappointed by.
Here's an example of something that wouldn't require a lot of change, but would add that extra touch that's currently missing. At the beginning of episode 2, you're faced with the decision to cut off the foot of the band director, David. If you don't, Travis, the other student, freaks out and winds up getting shot. He dies on the operating table, so to speak, and serves as a lesson to the group about the reality of infection.
If you do save David, Travis is rather clumsily dispatched from a writing perspective by inexplicably tripping and being devoured. This immediately synchronizes the outcomes of your choice, creating a symmetrical gameplay experience that's easier to write, but less meaningful to the players.
A nice touch that probably wouldn't have added a ton to development time or cost would have been to have Travis survive if you cut David free, and join you on the trip to the farm with Ben. At that point, he would join you and Mark as you clear off the zombies from the fence, but is killed by the first volley of arrows from the bandits. He then becomes one of the zombies chasing you during the tractor escape scene.
In this scenario, there doesn't have to much more in the way of dialogue added to the game, and though there's a bit more character modeling, the asymmetry of experience does add quite a bit of variety to my playthrough compared with someone else. And there's no fundamental change in the story.
TTG does this in minor ways throughout the game, but usually the effects of a decision are immediately played out and then synchronized within the same scene. Many of us would like to see a bit more. You want us to wind up with the same end state for a particular decision? Okay, but let our choices dictate a more varied route to arrive there. Right now, there just aren't enough routes.
Not it this thread... The feedback is focused on the fact that NONE of the choices impact (or tailor if you want) anything in the STORY. It's slightly different...
The game was selled like (and i'd worked for a video game company before) a choice based story (or the old "you are the hero" books if you prefer). I was not expecting TWD to be like an AAA game, just a cool game based on a franchise I like wich I can influence the story a little.
But in fact, no matter what you do, you have zero impact and it was not the game i was advertised. ^^
Edit: i have never said the fourth was finished, just the 5th is already in prod, again, it's slighty different...
This, this, this and this.
The game doesn't have anything going for it in regards to the gameplay, so it heavily relies on having a good storyline and being very interactive.
If the choices aren't supposed to be that important, then why was this advertised as one of the main parts of the game?
The point that telltale had been making with the entire game was the fact that it was supposed to have choices. If somebody's talking a lot about a particular feature of a game, does that not make you think that this feature of the game should be important?
How many times can i find the "choices" feature being mentioned?
Hmm.
-Once clearly at the start of every episode, which would mean a total of 5 times.
-At least once quite clearly on the main website.
-Twice on the steam page. Under KEY FEATURES.
"A tailored game experience – Live with the profound and lasting consequences of the decisions that you make in each episode. Your actions and choices will affect how your story plays out across the entire series."
"You’ll be forced to make decisions that are not only difficult, but that will require you to make an almost immediate choice. There’s no time to ponder when the undead are pounding the door down!"
"Features meaningful decision-making, exploration, problem solving and a constant fight for survival in a world overrun by the undead"
The way the choices are described as being "tailored" also sounds more specific to me than just "the choices you make may affect how the game plays"
If they hadn't heavily advertised the game as such, then this wouldn't be as much of a problem, if one at all.
I'm also not saying that this is a TERRIBLE game. Like i said yesterday in another thread, the problem is the same as duke nukem forever. The last 2 episodes raised the bar, that and with the delayed release, the 3rd episode just didn't live up to it.
Heavy rain, although made by AAA developers, did the choices well. People were lead to believe that TWD would be doing something similar with its game mechanics. The difference is, TWD only has choices that are about as game changing as resident evil 3's (1999) (a game which didn't even advertise the choices as it's main feature) and not anything close to heavy rain's (2010, even that was made over 2 years ago now)
Oh, and i don't think that ANYBODY was seriously expecting telltale to do the impossible and have something like over 10 different endings. That's just insane and not even heavy rain had that many endings. I think that EVERYBODY would be happy if this game had even 2 different endings or just 2 different major changes through the whole game (and not just a change that looked like it was going to be a major change only for it to merge with the other choice halfway through the game)
Exactly even if it did a Heavy rain choice method it would be more then what we have now...
That is legit of course, it is a lot easier to do in a RTS game though, as you "just" throw the player on a different map (if at all) and alter the missions.
It's called "Advertisement". Just try not to go "Mass Effect 3 Ending raging fan" and file a lawsuit on TTGs for this.. I'm already ashamed of humanity as it is..
False advertisement, me thinks.
The first group of people just don't seem even bother reading peoples complaints, refuse to believe people dislike their precious game and act like the only reason for complaints are character deaths being "to emotional for the gamer" lol.
The second group of people seem to be blind to all the times Telltale spoke about how choice will change each players game, how different each of are playthrough's will be or just pretend it was never stated.
Logical discussions are hard to be had on this board... fanboys be going mad.
yeah you are probably right but original war is out already some years and also the characters you saved in one mission did continue with you to next mission. And the game had 4 endings. Its mostly just example...
Edit: and i have a brain lol i will not make lawsuit ^^, but i don't think i will make a good critic of the tellatale products nor advise to purchase their products, bad mouth to ears is bad.
PS: i think it's a great discussion here, at last civil, calm and construcive. COOOOL !! ^^ (malcom thinks you are awesome lol)
But they could have made it with two outcomes which are not that different. Just leave in both of them some element which is a little bit more significant for the story than the hoody of Clem. And that element to be based on the decisions which you've made. Because at this point there isn't such an element.
25 dollar game or not they claimed to a lot of things that they never delivered on. The price we pay does not matter its all about what they promised us at purchase.
You buy false advertisement every day.
Food that says: "No preservatives" is usually packed with them, they just use stuff that doesn't have to be declared yet.
Cream is skimmed because the industry decided the customer doesn't want the creamy rim anymore. Stupid thing is, now you can't whip it anymore... oh wait... we have carrageenan, a chemical substance that helps us here... not healthy at all. Did anyone ever tell you about that on the ads?
People don't care what they eat, but go crazy about a game ad? Please...
+ 1
Maybe we just wrongly understood TTG maybe they thought that choice is about you will become hater or liker and after its true it will change outcome of whole season:D
I'm waiting for WarZ right now, but I will probably not preorder as I am just not sure how it will turn out, and what the playerbase will be like.
If I don't like it when I've taken a closer look, I will not buy it... simple thing.
if they had advertised it as "TWD game an interactive story based on TWD comic"
but had not said that it was tailored by your game play and that choices matter, i would not have expected any more than an interactive story
Fact is that this game is extreme light on gameplay like mentioned, and only excels in storytelling and the supposed changing story.
If you chop one of the main features off, then what is left?
what the difference in between being either team kenny or team lilly?