I agree they over-sold the customization of the narrative more than they should have. Don’t get me wrong, this is a wonderful game overall, and TTG has done an amazing job creating a powerful, emotional story with some of the most multi-dimensional characters I’ve ever seen in a video game. And there are certainly a large number of choices in the game that challenge us to make profound moral decisions that affect us as players, along with the way characters react to us in dialogues; but there’s a lack of substantive consequence to any of our decisions beyond this.
Granted, I recognize that it’s very costly to a developer to create numerous story branches within a single game. Even if each episode only had one major binary choice that altered the flow of the game, you’d wind up with 32 (2^5) potential paths by the end. Depending on the severity of the consequence, that can skyrocket development costs and time.
That said, I think there are missed opportunities to create a more asymmetric, tailored experience for players without adding a lot additional work. Mind you, I’m not a developer, so I can’t say for certain how much work any particular idea would add, but not every major choice needs to reverberate throughout the entire game, and having some consequence outside of different dialogue choices would be nice. Arguably, the only real decision to date that’s had any substantial consequence was the decision between saving Doug or Carley in episode 1. Unfortunately, this is cheapened by the fact that they act as functional equivalents in the story from that point forward. Neither has much of a role in episode 2, outside of saving you near the end, and they die in the exact same place in episode 3. As devastated as I was when Carley was killed (kudos to you, TTG; you took the wind completely out of my sails—I actually had to walk away from my computer for a few minutes to compose myself), when I learned Doug shared the same fate, I felt like my experience was cheapened, because there was much less consequence to my prior choice.
I’m not sure what the added costs in terms of time or resources would have been, so I can’t attest to how feasible this is, but a nice touch would have been for Carley to have died at that point regardless, while in a Doug game to have Ben be killed instead (or maybe a choice between the two, dependent upon your actions). In a Doug game, I wouldn’t know that Ben was the traitor, and that would be fine—it’d be great, in fact, because that sort of asymmetry creates replay value and adds depth to my choices. From this point on, Ben and Doug could serve the story in a functionally synonymous way, outside of cosmetic dialogue differences, resulting in a richer, more asymmetrical experience, and very likely without onerous additions to development cost and minimizing the impact on the overall direction of the story. I don't know TTG's story going forward or their plans for Ben in driving the narrative, but this is meant to be an example of the types of additions that would be nice.
You could add little experiences like this throughout the game. Dependent upon your standing with another character, maybe a certain location or task is completely eliminated or opened up. Since a lot of my actions affect how others view me, it would be nice to have those translate into tangible impacts on the story. Or at least create minor fissures in the gameplay.
If I decide to shoot the girl at the beginning of episode 3, for example, maybe that prevents me from entering the pharmacy to get any supplies, instead resulting in a frantic escape through the back alleys of Macon from the undead. And if I don’t shoot, I can take my time perusing the shelves. No long term impact, other than a frustrated Lilly when we get back to the motel, but it’s a little fissure that spices up gameplay. This requires developing a few extra areas and quick time events, so maybe that is asking a lot, but it would definitely add to the asymmetry of the game without dramatically altering the story.
Or if I decide to help Kenny kill Larry, maybe he steps up to save me in the barn and kills Danny, eliminating that decision entirely. Some might argue that that robs the player of a key moral moment in Lee’s development, which I won’t deny; but I don’t think that’s necessarily a bad thing. The stories we could tell about our experiences would be that much richer if some people were never confronted with that choice at all while others were. I’d certainly want to fire my game back up and see how the story plays out knowing I might be confronted with different choices in another play through. And for something like this there are minimal development costs and no changes to the story, but it adds a greater variety to our individual experiences. Something like Lilly coming to our aid in the final fight with Andy if we help her with her father, rather than her just watching us struggle on our own is a step in the right direction, albeit a very minimal one.
I think these are the sorts of touches that are missing at the moment—decisions that add variety outside of who I can talk to and their dispositions toward me. Branching storylines and the ability to save any character we want from death—nice (and selfish) as those things might be—aren’t the goal; I think many of us just want to feel like the effects of our choices aren’t confined to dialogue possibilities. We want to know that we’re having a tangible impact on the world we experience. And though I realize a lot people struggle to conjure the patience needed to wait for the latest episode to come out—again, a testament to the excellent caliber of game you’ve created, TTG—I’m in the camp that would rather wait several extra months if it meant having a game that incorporated this type of significance into our decisions.
I have a theory and I COULD be wrong but here it is anyway..
Remember Jolene and the Save-Lot bandits? well do you remember the part in episode two (I think it's like at the very end) where she shoots the bandits in the back of a vehicle and you can hear them screaming in the video? Well my theory is that the vehicle Lee and company find is the BANDIT's vehicle (my reason for thinking this is because there's tons of food and supplies found) --- Since the stuff was taken whether you agreed with Kenny or not, I think the decision affected the third episode, drastically either way.
Because the food and supplies were taken from the Save-Lots bandits vehicle, they started looking towards Lee and company for supplies. I'm guessing that somewhere along the end of episode 2, Ben was threatened (and convinced..somewhat) that one of his classmates might be alive, so he started to secretly hand over medicine and what-not to the bandits so that they would not harm the others and he'd be able to see his classmate...sooner or later....
So yes. The decision at the end of episode two DID have major consequences for episode 3 and here's why;
1). Because they took the food, the bandits started targeting Lee and company's group for supplies. (I kind of dislike how.. despite disagreeing with taking the food from the vehicle at the end of episode two, the group decides to take it anyway..)
[...]
I think you don't understand The Walking Dead and creators of this world.
Saracenar wrote it good.
[...]
What I take from my choices are more metaphorical. If I side with Lilly to try and revive her father, I feel like I'm doing something drastically different than if I chose to help Kenny kill him. Even though the game isn't drastically altered as a result, I feel something different.
You don't have to see the differences to know they are there.
For me when I'm entering the world of The Walking Dead I'm really dead. I mean that if I would like to be alive I have to abandon my principles, give up hope and accept The Walking Dead rules.
When you are playing you can think that your choices are really matter. You also think that your choices are able to change something, but you should get used to that you are just only a part of the story, not the creator and mostly important you can take a stand on what is happening. The stand shows you "who you are" and "how you changed" because of apocalypse. It is not important where you are going, who is going with you, what is happening, who can you trust. Important is what you decided to being still alive, how far you can wade into this world, and if you can trust yourself.
Our choices are really interesting from the point of view of sociology. Of course it is only the game, but I think (and hope) We won't be able to experience something like this in the real world, so maybe in the end of the game TTG will show us how we have changed.
Many of us still looking for something that will have impact for the story. For example:
I think you don't understand The Walking Dead and creators of this world.
Saracenar wrote it good.
For me when I'm entering the world of The Walking Dead I'm really dead. I mean that if I would like to be alive I have to abandon my principles, give up hope and accept The Walking Dead rules.
When you are playing you can think that your choices are really matter. You also think that your choices are able to change something, but you should get used to that you are just only a part of the story, not the creator and mostly important you can take a stand on what is happening. The stand shows you "who you are" and "how you changed" because of apocalypse. It is not important where you are going, who is going with you, what is happening, who can you trust. Important is what you decided to being still alive, how far you can wade into this world, and if you can trust yourself.
Our choices are really interesting from the point of view of sociology. Of course it is only the game, but I think (and hope) We won't be able to experience something like this in the real world, so maybe in the end of the game TTG will show us how we have changed.
Great post, man. Nicely said and it captures how I feel about the game. It's the decisions that change you, not the outcome.
I'm going to reserve judgement until I play the entire thing.
I will say up to this point I've been having a great time playing.
that's how i feel, i would actually recommend that people buy the game at this point, but i don't quite know how i would describe the game play, right now i would say is like a film where you pick the dialogue choices but not the action and you choose the personality of the main character and they should decide whether that makes a difference to them, i wouldn't say it was a game where choices matter (at this point) but that is because i don't speak in metaphor or in a way that is supposed to be open for interpretation
When you are playing you can think that your choices are really matter. You also think that your choices are able to change something, but you should get used to that you are just only a part of the story, not the creator and mostly important you can take a stand on what is happening. The stand shows you "who you are" and "how you changed" because of apocalypse. It is not important where you are going, who is going with you, what is happening, who can you trust. Important is what you decided to being still alive, how far you can wade into this world, and if you can trust yourself.
Our choices are really interesting from the point of view of sociology. Of course it is only the game, but I think (and hope) We won't be able to experience something like this in the real world, so maybe in the end of the game TTG will show us how we have changed.
You can't take seriously choices from the point of sociology. Mostly all of us making it while know how far its from real world so when things like this come happen you will probably make a lots things another way. Also I am missing more options in dialogues if I wanna look more in personality of player. Still I keep beliving my choices matter and it will dramaticly impact game so I will also judge game after playing whole series but if it will continue coming like this it will be big disappointment...
I've enjoyed the game so far.
It's nice having to make moral choices and all but when Carly died and couldnt be saved, that's when I lost the sense to play again for the other outcomes, since the outcome will be the same no matter what you did or do.
pls bring back Carly or give us at least the option to be able to save her.
From now on I don't think I will care about what choice I have to make in the next episodes as it won't really matter at all in the end not to me anyway.
Great job on the drama and plottwists etc... but I feel Telltale should have at least given that moment the same choice as with Doug/Carley in ep1. This ruined it a bit for me
There goes the replay value...
As far as im concerned the developers failed with the core idea of the game. Your choices dont matter no matter what.
EP1.
Shawn dies no matter what
ep2
Larry dies no matter outcomes and hates you not matter what
Mark dies no matter what
ep3
Carly/Doug
Katjaa
Duck
The only choices that matter in the game are the choices you make with the dialogue, making Kenny respect you more or Lily and so on, but that doesn't actually change anything atall, just the way they respond, which is linear, not really different.
They are really false advertising (constantly) with the 'your choices matter' line all the time, and the sentence(s) at the start of each episode.
Personally I think if there was a way to save Shawn, Carley and everyone else, everyone would choose that route and it would be boring. At least now we can have debate on characters and decisions. Besides it's a zombie apocalypse, and the walking dead universe so you can't save everyone and innocents will die.
Personally I think if there was a way to save Shawn, Carley and everyone else, everyone would choose that route and it would be boring. At least now we can have debate on characters and decisions. Besides it's a zombie apocalypse, and the walking dead universe so you can't save everyone and innocents will die.
We still could have chosen to save either Carley or Ben in episode 3 through choices we had made. Did that happen? No, TTG chose the cheap way out.
We should be able to save people at the cost of something else, nothings free, but we don't have any major choices.
As far as im concerned the developers failed with the core idea of the game. Your choices dont matter no matter what.
EP1.
Shawn dies no matter what
ep2
Larry dies no matter outcomes and hates you not matter what
Mark dies no matter what
ep3
Carly/Doug
Katjaa
Duck
Some things are set in stone, I get that. Truely open ended sandbox type games usually leave me feeling a bit empty, after a while, TWD has presented me with the most emotional moments that I've ever had in a very long history of being a gamer. I love it, even if there haven't been choices that make monumental changes in the games outcome. Good job TT.
We still could have chosen to save either Carley or Ben in episode 3 through choices we had made. Did that happen? No, TTG chose the cheap way out.
We should be able to save people at the cost of something else, nothings free, but we don't have any major choices.
They stayed true to the "Walking Dead". People often die needless and senseless deaths. There were choices in Episode 3, rather important ones I might add. Most are just upset they didn't get to pick and choose whatever they wanted. Having the ability to white knight your way through the game would take away a lot from the experience, in my opinion.
Choices don't matter. If you only play once, the game seems perfect. You will buy the delusion of your choice mattering. Once you replay and try other options: you will be hugely disappointed. I think the story is good. You will only be satisfied if you play only 1 game, and NEVER try the other options. They will only majorly disappoint. None of the choices matter nor change any of the stories outcome. At all. It is extremely frustrating. But it is fine if you only play this game once. That way the lie works and you won't notice.
The choices effect the dialogue and how people react to you. I would like to see it impact the storyline more so but seeing as Telltale have 5 specific episodes planned out changing the storyline dramatically for each player is a little impractical. When the second game rolls around I would like to see Telltale implement a system where your actions will directly cause of indirectly cause a person's death rather than just killing them off one after the other with no way to alter who is being killed and who isn't.
Choices do exist in this game though as choosing different options do effect the dialogue and how people react to you. Maybe in the last episode it will some how take your choices into account and result in different endings because of them.
So far I found no choices to make any differences. Which is a shame because thats why I bought the game. They blatantly lied to sell more copies. And now they sold those copies they dont make them matter because otherwise they have to make more story and cutscenes. They just lure all by saying it and then dont do it.
its fucking scam. if you play more time and try different options in talks or actions you will see nothing matters. they make all same no matter. scam in my opinion. and for a game that advertise for choices matter: bullshit!!
First was promised, 2nd would be more understandable due to money and time issues but why they make 3rd????? Pure moneygreed. NO CHOICE MATTERRED IN THÉ ENTIRE GAME YET!WTF
Choices don't matter. If you only play once, the game seems perfect. You will buy the delusion of your choice mattering. Once you replay and try other options: you will be hugely disappointed. I think the story is good. You will only be satisfied if you play only 1 game, and NEVER try the other options. They will only majorly disappoint. None of the choices matter nor change any of the stories outcome. At all. It is extremely frustrating. But it is fine if you only play this game once. That way the lie works and you won't notice.
When's this huge disappointment supposed to hit? Because I've played through multiple different scenarios, and I still love it. You just said that if you play it through one time it seems perfect. Appreciate it for what it is.
People sure as fuck love whining! It's a goddamn budget game and it's a pretty good game. Whoever bought this thinking "oh I can do whatever the fuck I want!" or something like that probably need to play something else like Fallout or The Elder Scrolls.
When's this huge disappointment supposed to hit? Because I've played through multiple different scenarios, and I still love it. You just said that if you play it through one time it seems perfect. Appreciate it for what it is.
Same here, dude. We're apparently delusional though. Making the decision to shoot Duck or have Kenny to shoot Duck was an emotionally powerful choice to me. What you decide to do with Lilly after she snaps and kills Carley/Doug was a rough decision that told me about Lee's character. I learned early on that I'll be able to make decisions but the story will always be moving to a certain point. How we get there along the way and the differences in our interactions with the other characters is what most happily gloss over.
That picture describing the current story is disingenuous at best.
You just said that if you play it through one time it seems perfect. Appreciate it for what it is.
Not if the major marketing keeps talking about how your choices (quote:) affect how the story plays out. I bought the game solely because of the choices. And seing how none of my choices change anything is super frustrating and the blatant lies by the developers piss me off even more.
If this game was released without these OBVIOUS LIES and it just said "interactive story" or something else, fine. But they didn't. So yes, we have all reason in the world to be angry about what they did so far with the non existing mattering choices.
Not if the major marketing keeps talking about how your choices (quote:) affect how the story plays out. I bought the game solely because of the choices. And seing how none of my choices change anything is super frustrating and the blatant lies by the developers piss me off even more.
If this game was released without these OBVIOUS LIES and it just said "interactive story" or something else, fine. But they didn't. So yes, we have all reason in the world to be angry about what they did so far with the non existing mattering choices.
Your choices change the way how other ppl perceive you
Your choices change the way how other ppl perceive you
What does it matter? that's not what was promised. And if the way how people perceive me doesn't have any affect on how they act then what's the point? Zero. Latest example: it doesn't mattewr if you 100% stick on the side of Lilly ALL THE FUCKING WAY from the first minute or if you are against her, all the way.She does everything the exact same. Same with every other character in the entire game. The story does NOT get changed by your decisions in ANY way, shape or form. And quite frankly yes, it is pissing me off.
Your choices change the way how other ppl perceive you
but in real life that only matters because it changes how they interact with you and can have a massive affect on your life, if it didn't matter whether people liked or hated you, life would be very strange
Your choices change the way how other ppl perceive you
But the problem is that it doesn't matter at all. Take episode 1: You can lie to Hershel or tell the truth, you can save Duck or the Hershel boy, you can blame Kenny afterwards or not - nothings matters, Hershel kicks you off the farm and Kenny still offers you the ride to Macon.
In my first playthrough I helped Duck and was on Kenny's side in the dialogue so it felt alright that Hershel wanted us away and that Kenny offered the ride.
Playing a second time just to see what would happen if I did the opposite - it all ended the same way. I would have expected Hershel to keep me a day or two longer on the farm and Kenny to be so mad at me that he surely wouldn't want me in his car. Then, later, after making it to Macon by other means, I might have met the others in the drug store, including a Kenny mad at me for doing what I did of course.
This game is extremely light on gameplay. A few quicktime events and some clicking get you through the zombie encounters. The puzzles are extremely simple and require almost no problem solving ability. The only thing that was left to make this game different or endearing was the potential of the choice system which turned out to be just cosmetic.
This game is extremely light on gameplay. A few quicktime events and some clicking get you through the zombie encounters. The puzzles are extremely simple and require almost no problem solving ability. The only thing that was left to make this game different or endearing was the potential of the choice system which turned out to be just cosmetic.
Yep. They sold this game on the strength of choices that "matter," and then don't give you any real ones. This isn't going to ruin my life, but it did annoy me enough to hop onto this forum, so I certainly felt frustrated as a customer.
Agreed with dubesor, Im betting if you were with Kenny 100% of the time or 0% of the time he will still let you on his boat in the end if he even makes it to the end and if we truly are heading toward the boat -_-
False advertising, Doesn't matter if the characters hate or love you, any decision they make will not be affected on how you treated them.
Shame TTG, but still, if this was advertised as an interactive story, it would be brilliant
Season 2 will probably do the same thing, and if it does, im not getting it, Im watching it on youtube since I know any choice I make *and shout at the screen for the guy to hopefully pick it xD* that differs on who I'm watching will still be the same in the long run.
I will however finish season 1 for ep 4 and 5 since Im a bit too invested into the game though :P
To tell you the truth, ME3 does a much better job with choices, and 90% of the time its an action game! This game is being powered by a "choice" system that simply doesn't exist, without having to go through the work to make it some interactive shooter like ME3, and your telling me its still too much work to implement major choices?
I found this from someone else that sums it up pretty accurately. look at the 3rd graph to see how 'choices' matter.
Realistically, WD would probably be between 2 and 3, it is NOT as linear as shown, if it was that, there would be zero consequences for anything done at all. Walking Dead has people saying different things about you/the Carly Doug thing for it.
Also, Its interesting how so many people wish the game had choices that effect the story, but then flat out ignore the story anyway to complain about the choices. You were going to ignore the choices anyway, so why complain? Oh, because that dumb chick died in a quick and nonpainful way over say... being beaten to death with a baseball bat... or decapitated... or freaking raped!
Honestly, I would think you'd want Carly dead so she doesn't have to suffer anymore...
To tell you the truth, ME3 does a much better job with choices, and 90% of the time its an action game! This game is being powered by a "choice" system that simply doesn't exist, without having to go through the work to make it some interactive shooter like ME3, and your telling me its still too much work to implement major choices?
Wow, ME3's brilliant system of "here's a bar, get it full or die!" choice system was brilliant! I especially loved how the choices didn't change anything at all! I especially loved how ME3 copied and pasted the combat over from ME2 and called it a day! That was brilliant work done right there!
What I'm saying is ME3 wasn't that good and you should've used ME2 as your example instead :P
Realistically, WD would probably be between 2 and 3, it is NOT as linear as shown, if it was that, there would be zero consequences for anything done at all. Walking Dead has people saying different things about you/the Carly Doug thing for it.
Also, Its interesting how so many people wish the game had choices that effect the story, but then flat out ignore the story anyway to complain about the choices. You were going to ignore the choices anyway, so why complain? Oh, because that dumb chick died in a quick and nonpainful way over say... being beaten to death with a baseball bat... or decapitated... or freaking raped!
Honestly, I would think you'd want Carly dead so she doesn't have to suffer anymore...
its not ignoring the story to want a different choice that has a different impact, its about changing the story, and that doesn't mean i want a choice to save everybody so at the end of the game i collect them all, i just want to choose my torture
Agreed with dubesor, Im betting if you were with Kenny 100% of the time or 0% of the time he will still let you on his boat in the end if he even makes it to the end and if we truly are heading toward the boat -_-
False advertising, Doesn't matter if the characters hate or love you, any decision they make will not be affected on how you treated them.
Shame TTG, but still, if this was advertised as an interactive story, it would be brilliant
Season 2 will probably do the same thing, and if it does, im not getting it, Im watching it on youtube since I know any choice I make *and shout at the screen for the guy to hopefully pick it xD* that differs on who I'm watching will still be the same in the long run.
I will however finish season 1 for ep 4 and 5 since Im a bit too invested into the game though :P
To tell you the truth, ME3 does a much better job with choices, and 90% of the time its an action game! This game is being powered by a "choice" system that simply doesn't exist, without having to go through the work to make it some interactive shooter like ME3, and your telling me its still too much work to implement major choices?
*Facepalm* >.>
It's hilarious that you're comparing this to Mass Effect. You do realize Mass Effect has EA backing them, right? There's also the fact that this game was half the price of a Mass effect game.
Hell, in my opinion, Episode 3 had much more of an emotional impact than any of the Mass Effect games.
Hell, in my opinion, Episode 3 had much more emotion than any of the Mass Effect games.
This this this.
And on a note about your choices not effecting things, consider this: Carley was dead and gone in episode 1 for me. Doug was around for a whole two more episodes, just thanks to one choice. If that isn't a choice mattering, I don't know what is.
Besides, Mass Effect 3 was just about as bad as this, if not worse.
And on a note about your choices not effecting things, consider this: Carley was dead and gone in episode 1 for me. Doug was around for a whole two more episodes, just thanks to one choice. If that isn't a choice mattering, I don't know what is.
Besides, Mass Effect 3 was just about as bad as this, if not worse.
but mass effect wasn't just a string of choices like TWD game, so it is easier to have meaningful changes when you cant just explore every part of the galaxy whenever you feel lie it
I also bought the game based on the choices affecting outcome marketing.
The VERY FIRST thing you see when you load a new chapter is:
This game series adapts to the choices you make.
The story is tailored to how you play.
This is pretty much a lie. It should read something like:
This game series flavors the experience from the choices you make.
The story is colored by how you play.
I'm still having fun with the game, but like a poster above me, it annoyed me enough to post about it. In my opinion, it wouldn't be difficult to create a few set pieces per episode and then focus all attention into story and branching. And also like a poster above me, I'd be happy with an "A or B" branch -- I don't need "A, B, C, D, E, F", though I remain unconvinced that it would be such a monumental hurdle to overcome.
I don't think the choices would necessarily have to become a logisitical nightmare the longer the story went on -- I think creative writing and what kind of choices you actually present could take care of a lot of those problems.
And I would hope sophisticated enough tools are available to the designers that allows writers to basically load a set piece (after completed by level designers), place characters and script the scenes. I would imagine the tool could be simple enough that if it were released, the public could easily create their own episodes (hint, hint).
You would have new models on occasion, but most animations should be done by now and with a good base of generic assets and a decent level editor, you can create a lot of different types of locales. Maybe the voice acting takes too long / is too expensive.
Like I said, still having fun with the game, but the source world/material of The Walking Dead is so rich its kind of disappointing we don't have some real branching. Maybe on the last episode, they'll go crazy (we can hope.)
inb4 "make your own game" (which is on my long-term agenda.)
Comments
Granted, I recognize that it’s very costly to a developer to create numerous story branches within a single game. Even if each episode only had one major binary choice that altered the flow of the game, you’d wind up with 32 (2^5) potential paths by the end. Depending on the severity of the consequence, that can skyrocket development costs and time.
That said, I think there are missed opportunities to create a more asymmetric, tailored experience for players without adding a lot additional work. Mind you, I’m not a developer, so I can’t say for certain how much work any particular idea would add, but not every major choice needs to reverberate throughout the entire game, and having some consequence outside of different dialogue choices would be nice. Arguably, the only real decision to date that’s had any substantial consequence was the decision between saving Doug or Carley in episode 1. Unfortunately, this is cheapened by the fact that they act as functional equivalents in the story from that point forward. Neither has much of a role in episode 2, outside of saving you near the end, and they die in the exact same place in episode 3. As devastated as I was when Carley was killed (kudos to you, TTG; you took the wind completely out of my sails—I actually had to walk away from my computer for a few minutes to compose myself), when I learned Doug shared the same fate, I felt like my experience was cheapened, because there was much less consequence to my prior choice.
I’m not sure what the added costs in terms of time or resources would have been, so I can’t attest to how feasible this is, but a nice touch would have been for Carley to have died at that point regardless, while in a Doug game to have Ben be killed instead (or maybe a choice between the two, dependent upon your actions). In a Doug game, I wouldn’t know that Ben was the traitor, and that would be fine—it’d be great, in fact, because that sort of asymmetry creates replay value and adds depth to my choices. From this point on, Ben and Doug could serve the story in a functionally synonymous way, outside of cosmetic dialogue differences, resulting in a richer, more asymmetrical experience, and very likely without onerous additions to development cost and minimizing the impact on the overall direction of the story. I don't know TTG's story going forward or their plans for Ben in driving the narrative, but this is meant to be an example of the types of additions that would be nice.
You could add little experiences like this throughout the game. Dependent upon your standing with another character, maybe a certain location or task is completely eliminated or opened up. Since a lot of my actions affect how others view me, it would be nice to have those translate into tangible impacts on the story. Or at least create minor fissures in the gameplay.
If I decide to shoot the girl at the beginning of episode 3, for example, maybe that prevents me from entering the pharmacy to get any supplies, instead resulting in a frantic escape through the back alleys of Macon from the undead. And if I don’t shoot, I can take my time perusing the shelves. No long term impact, other than a frustrated Lilly when we get back to the motel, but it’s a little fissure that spices up gameplay. This requires developing a few extra areas and quick time events, so maybe that is asking a lot, but it would definitely add to the asymmetry of the game without dramatically altering the story.
Or if I decide to help Kenny kill Larry, maybe he steps up to save me in the barn and kills Danny, eliminating that decision entirely. Some might argue that that robs the player of a key moral moment in Lee’s development, which I won’t deny; but I don’t think that’s necessarily a bad thing. The stories we could tell about our experiences would be that much richer if some people were never confronted with that choice at all while others were. I’d certainly want to fire my game back up and see how the story plays out knowing I might be confronted with different choices in another play through. And for something like this there are minimal development costs and no changes to the story, but it adds a greater variety to our individual experiences. Something like Lilly coming to our aid in the final fight with Andy if we help her with her father, rather than her just watching us struggle on our own is a step in the right direction, albeit a very minimal one.
I think these are the sorts of touches that are missing at the moment—decisions that add variety outside of who I can talk to and their dispositions toward me. Branching storylines and the ability to save any character we want from death—nice (and selfish) as those things might be—aren’t the goal; I think many of us just want to feel like the effects of our choices aren’t confined to dialogue possibilities. We want to know that we’re having a tangible impact on the world we experience. And though I realize a lot people struggle to conjure the patience needed to wait for the latest episode to come out—again, a testament to the excellent caliber of game you’ve created, TTG—I’m in the camp that would rather wait several extra months if it meant having a game that incorporated this type of significance into our decisions.
Saracenar wrote it good.
For me when I'm entering the world of The Walking Dead I'm really dead. I mean that if I would like to be alive I have to abandon my principles, give up hope and accept The Walking Dead rules.
When you are playing you can think that your choices are really matter. You also think that your choices are able to change something, but you should get used to that you are just only a part of the story, not the creator and mostly important you can take a stand on what is happening. The stand shows you "who you are" and "how you changed" because of apocalypse. It is not important where you are going, who is going with you, what is happening, who can you trust. Important is what you decided to being still alive, how far you can wade into this world, and if you can trust yourself.
Our choices are really interesting from the point of view of sociology. Of course it is only the game, but I think (and hope) We won't be able to experience something like this in the real world, so maybe in the end of the game TTG will show us how we have changed.
Great post, man. Nicely said and it captures how I feel about the game. It's the decisions that change you, not the outcome.
I will say up to this point I've been having a great time playing.
that's how i feel, i would actually recommend that people buy the game at this point, but i don't quite know how i would describe the game play, right now i would say is like a film where you pick the dialogue choices but not the action and you choose the personality of the main character and they should decide whether that makes a difference to them, i wouldn't say it was a game where choices matter (at this point) but that is because i don't speak in metaphor or in a way that is supposed to be open for interpretation
You can't take seriously choices from the point of sociology. Mostly all of us making it while know how far its from real world so when things like this come happen you will probably make a lots things another way. Also I am missing more options in dialogues if I wanna look more in personality of player. Still I keep beliving my choices matter and it will dramaticly impact game so I will also judge game after playing whole series but if it will continue coming like this it will be big disappointment...
It's nice having to make moral choices and all but when Carly died and couldnt be saved, that's when I lost the sense to play again for the other outcomes, since the outcome will be the same no matter what you did or do.
pls bring back Carly or give us at least the option to be able to save her.
From now on I don't think I will care about what choice I have to make in the next episodes as it won't really matter at all in the end not to me anyway.
Great job on the drama and plottwists etc... but I feel Telltale should have at least given that moment the same choice as with Doug/Carley in ep1. This ruined it a bit for me
There goes the replay value...
EP1.
Shawn dies no matter what
ep2
Larry dies no matter outcomes and hates you not matter what
Mark dies no matter what
ep3
Carly/Doug
Katjaa
Duck
They are really false advertising (constantly) with the 'your choices matter' line all the time, and the sentence(s) at the start of each episode.
We still could have chosen to save either Carley or Ben in episode 3 through choices we had made. Did that happen? No, TTG chose the cheap way out.
We should be able to save people at the cost of something else, nothings free, but we don't have any major choices.
Some things are set in stone, I get that. Truely open ended sandbox type games usually leave me feeling a bit empty, after a while, TWD has presented me with the most emotional moments that I've ever had in a very long history of being a gamer. I love it, even if there haven't been choices that make monumental changes in the games outcome. Good job TT.
They stayed true to the "Walking Dead". People often die needless and senseless deaths. There were choices in Episode 3, rather important ones I might add. Most are just upset they didn't get to pick and choose whatever they wanted. Having the ability to white knight your way through the game would take away a lot from the experience, in my opinion.
Choices do exist in this game though as choosing different options do effect the dialogue and how people react to you. Maybe in the last episode it will some how take your choices into account and result in different endings because of them.
its fucking scam. if you play more time and try different options in talks or actions you will see nothing matters. they make all same no matter. scam in my opinion. and for a game that advertise for choices matter: bullshit!!
When's this huge disappointment supposed to hit? Because I've played through multiple different scenarios, and I still love it. You just said that if you play it through one time it seems perfect. Appreciate it for what it is.
Same here, dude. We're apparently delusional though. Making the decision to shoot Duck or have Kenny to shoot Duck was an emotionally powerful choice to me. What you decide to do with Lilly after she snaps and kills Carley/Doug was a rough decision that told me about Lee's character. I learned early on that I'll be able to make decisions but the story will always be moving to a certain point. How we get there along the way and the differences in our interactions with the other characters is what most happily gloss over.
That picture describing the current story is disingenuous at best.
Not if the major marketing keeps talking about how your choices (quote:) affect how the story plays out. I bought the game solely because of the choices. And seing how none of my choices change anything is super frustrating and the blatant lies by the developers piss me off even more.
If this game was released without these OBVIOUS LIES and it just said "interactive story" or something else, fine. But they didn't. So yes, we have all reason in the world to be angry about what they did so far with the non existing mattering choices.
Your choices change the way how other ppl perceive you
What does it matter? that's not what was promised. And if the way how people perceive me doesn't have any affect on how they act then what's the point? Zero. Latest example: it doesn't mattewr if you 100% stick on the side of Lilly ALL THE FUCKING WAY from the first minute or if you are against her, all the way.She does everything the exact same. Same with every other character in the entire game. The story does NOT get changed by your decisions in ANY way, shape or form. And quite frankly yes, it is pissing me off.
but in real life that only matters because it changes how they interact with you and can have a massive affect on your life, if it didn't matter whether people liked or hated you, life would be very strange
But the problem is that it doesn't matter at all. Take episode 1: You can lie to Hershel or tell the truth, you can save Duck or the Hershel boy, you can blame Kenny afterwards or not - nothings matters, Hershel kicks you off the farm and Kenny still offers you the ride to Macon.
In my first playthrough I helped Duck and was on Kenny's side in the dialogue so it felt alright that Hershel wanted us away and that Kenny offered the ride.
Playing a second time just to see what would happen if I did the opposite - it all ended the same way. I would have expected Hershel to keep me a day or two longer on the farm and Kenny to be so mad at me that he surely wouldn't want me in his car. Then, later, after making it to Macon by other means, I might have met the others in the drug store, including a Kenny mad at me for doing what I did of course.
Dies moments later.
The only thing that changes is maybe slight dialogue variation. Like everyone's been saying, its an interactive movie.
Yep. They sold this game on the strength of choices that "matter," and then don't give you any real ones. This isn't going to ruin my life, but it did annoy me enough to hop onto this forum, so I certainly felt frustrated as a customer.
False advertising, Doesn't matter if the characters hate or love you, any decision they make will not be affected on how you treated them.
Shame TTG, but still, if this was advertised as an interactive story, it would be brilliant
Season 2 will probably do the same thing, and if it does, im not getting it, Im watching it on youtube since I know any choice I make *and shout at the screen for the guy to hopefully pick it xD* that differs on who I'm watching will still be the same in the long run.
I will however finish season 1 for ep 4 and 5 since Im a bit too invested into the game though :P
To tell you the truth, ME3 does a much better job with choices, and 90% of the time its an action game! This game is being powered by a "choice" system that simply doesn't exist, without having to go through the work to make it some interactive shooter like ME3, and your telling me its still too much work to implement major choices?
*Facepalm* >.>
Realistically, WD would probably be between 2 and 3, it is NOT as linear as shown, if it was that, there would be zero consequences for anything done at all. Walking Dead has people saying different things about you/the Carly Doug thing for it.
Also, Its interesting how so many people wish the game had choices that effect the story, but then flat out ignore the story anyway to complain about the choices. You were going to ignore the choices anyway, so why complain? Oh, because that dumb chick died in a quick and nonpainful way over say... being beaten to death with a baseball bat... or decapitated... or freaking raped!
Honestly, I would think you'd want Carly dead so she doesn't have to suffer anymore...
Wow, ME3's brilliant system of "here's a bar, get it full or die!" choice system was brilliant! I especially loved how the choices didn't change anything at all! I especially loved how ME3 copied and pasted the combat over from ME2 and called it a day! That was brilliant work done right there!
What I'm saying is ME3 wasn't that good and you should've used ME2 as your example instead :P
its not ignoring the story to want a different choice that has a different impact, its about changing the story, and that doesn't mean i want a choice to save everybody so at the end of the game i collect them all, i just want to choose my torture
It's hilarious that you're comparing this to Mass Effect. You do realize Mass Effect has EA backing them, right? There's also the fact that this game was half the price of a Mass effect game.
Hell, in my opinion, Episode 3 had much more of an emotional impact than any of the Mass Effect games.
This this this.
And on a note about your choices not effecting things, consider this: Carley was dead and gone in episode 1 for me. Doug was around for a whole two more episodes, just thanks to one choice. If that isn't a choice mattering, I don't know what is.
Besides, Mass Effect 3 was just about as bad as this, if not worse.
but mass effect wasn't just a string of choices like TWD game, so it is easier to have meaningful changes when you cant just explore every part of the galaxy whenever you feel lie it
The VERY FIRST thing you see when you load a new chapter is:
This is pretty much a lie. It should read something like:
I'm still having fun with the game, but like a poster above me, it annoyed me enough to post about it. In my opinion, it wouldn't be difficult to create a few set pieces per episode and then focus all attention into story and branching. And also like a poster above me, I'd be happy with an "A or B" branch -- I don't need "A, B, C, D, E, F", though I remain unconvinced that it would be such a monumental hurdle to overcome.
I don't think the choices would necessarily have to become a logisitical nightmare the longer the story went on -- I think creative writing and what kind of choices you actually present could take care of a lot of those problems.
And I would hope sophisticated enough tools are available to the designers that allows writers to basically load a set piece (after completed by level designers), place characters and script the scenes. I would imagine the tool could be simple enough that if it were released, the public could easily create their own episodes (hint, hint).
You would have new models on occasion, but most animations should be done by now and with a good base of generic assets and a decent level editor, you can create a lot of different types of locales. Maybe the voice acting takes too long / is too expensive.
Like I said, still having fun with the game, but the source world/material of The Walking Dead is so rich its kind of disappointing we don't have some real branching. Maybe on the last episode, they'll go crazy (we can hope.)
inb4 "make your own game" (which is on my long-term agenda.)