Why I am dissappointed with the Episode-Model

24

Comments

  • edited May 2012
    And always must show up some dude who dont understand that other players also have they things and "adult" stuff to do. And they still dont like episodic form of releasing games. Its like buying car starting from buying wheels. Its not about patience, its about customer rights to complain if they dont like something. And people love to complain - so company can learn what people like or not. This dont mean that product is bad, only that with selling is something strange.

    Full game could be release with start of new season of TV Walking Dead. Its almoust like free commercial, and now zombie players ARE HUNGRY after tasting first fresh meat! :D Waiting for something you dont know before is less pain. :P
  • edited May 2012
    I'm all for the way they are doing it. I mean, yes, the episodes could be longer, But I am finding that I am buying new games, that are full length, and I get bored with them very fast.

    I would rather wait for a new episode, as it makes it feel like the game could go on forever!
  • puzzleboxpuzzlebox Telltale Alumni
    edited May 2012
    I came to Telltale a few years ago for Tales of Monkey Island. I was really sceptical of the episodic model at first, so much so that I only bought the game a couple of months in after a friend pretty much made me do it.

    Gotta say... total 180. The wait between episodes is often my favourite part of the Telltale experience. You get this anticipation and speculation in the lead-up to a new ep that just doesn't happen with other games. It spins out the whole experience across 5 months instead of 1 day, and the community engagement over that time is just amazing to see.

    I understand that not everyone gets as much enjoyment out of that as I do. And in that case, there's always the option to start playing once all the episodes are available. ;)

    I wouldn't mind if Telltale made non-episodic games, but I get a lot out of the episodic experience too.
  • edited May 2012
    And who say about production time? Everyone know that in week you cant create computer game what have "legs and arms". Better is release full game with TV new season of Walking Dead not in parts to that date. Now most of funs know that product is good in fabular way, but its torture to wait every episode. Its why I never EVER buy game in episodes, before full release. I try it to early, and now I suffer. :P
  • puzzleboxpuzzlebox Telltale Alumni
    edited May 2012
    flash-900 wrote: »
    This is getting realy stupid, you get yelled at for asking a fair question.
    [...]
    i know we just wont get an answer on a date and this is way it works, but as mods and fans of ttg you just have to be patient as this subject will proberly go on as this is the site to find out info and thats what all new members are trying to do

    Hey no one's yelling at you or anyone else. :)

    I understand the frustration... the reason Telltale don't give specific dates is because they need a flexible release model. A week here or there can make a huge difference in terms of the final output. If they need the extra time for whatever reason, they can improve the release without breaking any promises.

    And we're happy to explain that as many times as necessary for members new to the community. ;)
  • VainamoinenVainamoinen Moderator
    edited May 2012
    flash-900 wrote: »
    This is getting realy stupid, you get yelled at for asking a fair question. most people know it is a monthly episode release and understand that. what they expect is some disclipline 4 week intervals whith set dates, we still can discuss plot lines idieas and refine, to help the game. i know we just wont get an answer on a date and this is way it works, but as mods and fans of ttg you just have to be patient as this subject will proberly go on as this is the site to find out info and thats what all new members are trying to do
    flash-900 wrote: »
    This is getting realy stupid, you get yelled at for asking a fair question. most people know it is a monthly episode release and understand that. what they expect is some disclipline 4 week intervals whith set dates, we still can discuss plot lines idieas and refine, to help the game. i know we just wont get an answer on a date and this is way it works, but as mods and fans of ttg you just have to be patient as this subject will proberly go on as this is the site to find out info and thats what all new members are trying to do

    Yelling or not, this man has GOT to stop posting the exact same thing in different parts of the forum. ;)
  • edited May 2012
    puzzlebox wrote: »
    I came to Telltale a few years ago for Tales of Monkey Island. I was really sceptical of the episodic model at first, so much so that I only bought the game a couple of months in after a friend pretty much made me do it.

    Gotta say... total 180. The wait between episodes is often my favourite part of the Telltale experience. You get this anticipation and speculation in the lead-up to a new ep that just doesn't happen with other games. It spins out the whole experience across 5 months instead of 1 day, and the community engagement over that time is just amazing to see.

    I understand that not everyone gets as much enjoyment out of that as I do. And in that case, there's always the option to start playing once all the episodes are available. ;)

    I wouldn't mind if Telltale made non-episodic games, but I get a lot out of the episodic experience too.
    Now all we need is some "I Wonder What Happens In The Walking Dead: Episode __" movies to make this experience perfect.
  • VainamoinenVainamoinen Moderator
    edited May 2012
    Epic Kiwi wrote: »
    Now all we need is some "I Wonder What Happens In The Walking Dead: Episode __" movies to make this experience perfect.

    Quoted for truth. But pretty impossible unfortunately! Majus has his hands full, even scored an internship at Double Fine for the Summer and STILL has his fingers in TWD as an animator (as some of you might have seen in the end credits of episode 1).

    The IWWHITOMIs were the reason why the wait between the Tales of Monkey Island-episodes had two parts. First you were waiting for the IWWH flash movie, and only afterwards for the actual episode. :D
  • CapnJayCapnJay Banned
    edited May 2012
    I hope theres more then just episode DLC availible
  • edited May 2012
    CapnJay wrote: »
    I hope theres more then just episode DLC availible
    What are you talking about?

    In any case, I will say this: I dislike Episodic Gaming, but not enough to be angry at Telltale Games, but I am annoyed by it. That being said, Walking Dead is MADE for Episodic Gaming... because IT IS ALREADY EPISODIC. I repeat... IT IS ALREADY EPISODIC. TV Shows? EPISODIC. Comic Book Series? EPISODIC.

    It FITS. For once it's FEATURE of the series, not just Telltale Games trying to convert it to an Episodic Series.
  • CapnJayCapnJay Banned
    edited May 2012
    What are you talking about?

    In any case, I will say this: I dislike Episodic Gaming, but not enough to be angry at Telltale Games, but I am annoyed by it. That being said, Walking Dead is MADE for Episodic Gaming... because IT IS ALREADY EPISODIC. I repeat... IT IS ALREADY EPISODIC. TV Shows? EPISODIC. Comic Book Series? EPISODIC.

    It FITS. For once it's FEATURE of the series, not just Telltale Games trying to convert it to an Episodic Series.

    As someone joked in another thread.

    an "I killed a Senator" shirt for Lee DLC

    You know like alternate costumes or bonus type things DLC it'd be pretty hard to work in to a game like walking dead but it'd be fun. Maybe Commentary nodes?
  • edited May 2012
    Ahh, I get it. I didn't know if you were being serious or not.
  • CapnJayCapnJay Banned
    edited May 2012
    i'm serious about wanting more dlc for Walking dead including the episodes and as much as they can release
  • edited May 2012
    ...and now you just confused me again.
  • CapnJayCapnJay Banned
    edited May 2012
    Still want to get as much possible for Walking Dead game action as possible. Episodes, Commentary, alternative costumes, etc. Walking Dead is taking my mind off of Mass Effect 3 it is my happy place
  • edited May 2012
    CapnJay wrote: »
    Still want to get as much possible for Walking Dead game action as possible. Episodes, Commentary, alternative costumes, etc. Walking Dead is taking my mind off of Mass Effect 3 it is my happy place

    LOL

    New hairstyle for Lee = 2 USD each
    Sexy outfits for Carley/Doug = 2 USD each
    New zombie dog pet = 5 USD
    Additional energy bars (NPC consumable item) = 1 USD each
    10'000 USD ingame money = 10 USD
    Zombie wagon mount = 15 USD
    Colors for zombie wagon mount = 2 USD each
    Energy drink (makes crosshairs even larger and gives +2 seconds reaction time.. lasts 1 hour) = 1 USD each

    Seriously? Alternative costumes? This game is too short for stuff like that. And you can't really show it to other people online (single player game).
  • CapnJayCapnJay Banned
    edited May 2012
    Isterio wrote: »
    LOL

    New hairstyle for Lee = 2 USD each
    Sexy outfits for Carley/Doug = 2 USD each
    New zombie dog pet = 5 USD
    Additional energy bars (NPC consumable item) = 1 USD each
    10'000 USD ingame money = 10 USD
    Zombie wagon mount = 15 USD
    Colors for zombie wagon mount = 2 USD each
    Energy drink (makes crosshairs even larger and gives +2 seconds reaction time.. lasts 1 hour) = 1 USD each

    Seriously? Alternative costumes? This game is too short for stuff like that. And you can't really show it to other people online (single player game).

    Giant Fro for Lee 80 points
    Energy Drink to drink regardless of effects 80 points
    Lees Senator killer Shirt 80 points
    Larry's Military uniform 80 points
    Lily Aviator Jacket and Sunglasses 80 points
    Glenn ninja/samurai outfit- 80 points
    Clementine body armor -80 points
    Ducks cowboy outfit- 80 points
    Carley Yellow April O'Neill jumpsuit-80 points
    Doug Sam and Max tshirt glasses and khakis-80 points

    I could go on
  • edited May 2012
    I still don't understand this as a topic for debate. If you dislike the episodic model, wait until the game is complete and THEN buy it and start playing it. The complete game will still be available on the same date it otherwise would have been completed. Just ignore the insufficient/demo/preview releases, if that's how you see them, and wait until it's available in its entirety.

    Personally, I like the episodic model -- I've played five of Telltale's games episodically, the others I picked up after the seasons were completed. Both modes work fine for me, but in either case I think the seasons benefit from feedback received and work already done on early episodes. Almost all of Telltale's series improve as they go along, and I believe the episodic model helps to make that possible.

    Games aren't like movies; they are experiential art, with elements that will be unique to each player. YOUR experience is not going to somehow decay or expire while YOU are waiting to play it.
  • edited May 2012
    I still don't understand this as a topic for debate. If you dislike the episodic model, wait until the game is complete and THEN buy it and start playing it. The complete game will still be available on the same date it otherwise would have been completed. Just ignore the insufficient/demo/preview releases, if that's how you see them, and wait until it's available in its entirety.

    Personally, I like the episodic model -- I've played five of Telltale's games episodically, the others I picked up after the seasons were completed. Both modes work fine for me, but in either case I think the seasons benefit from feedback received and work already done on early episodes. Almost all of Telltale's series improve as they go along, and I believe the episodic model helps to make that possible.

    Games aren't like movies; they are experiential art, with elements that will be unique to each player. YOUR experience is not going to somehow decay or expire while YOU are waiting to play it.
    I that's a fair point, but I actually think the model hurt some of Telltale's games. I thought Jurassic Park AND BTTF were very underwhelming. It just didn't fit with the Episodic Model very well.
  • edited May 2012
    CapnJay wrote: »
    Giant Fro for Lee 80 points
    Energy Drink to drink regardless of effects 80 points
    Lees Senator killer Shirt 80 points
    Larry's Military uniform 80 points
    Lily Aviator Jacket and Sunglasses 80 points
    Glenn ninja/samurai outfit- 80 points
    Clementine body armor -80 points
    Ducks cowboy outfit- 80 points
    Carley Yellow April O'Neill jumpsuit-80 points
    Doug Sam and Max tshirt glasses and khakis-80 points

    I could go on
    Highschool or College Tomboy outfit for Lilly - $9.99
    Two-Piece Bikini and Cowgirl Hat for Carly* - $4.99
    Weighted Suit of Armor for Clementine** - $9.99
    Disco Jacket for Lee - $4.99
    Lumberjack outfit for Larry - $4.99
    TF2 Scout outfit for Glenn - $4.99
    TF2 Engineer outfit for Doug - $4.99
    Hershel Disguise mask for Kenny - $4.99

    I can just see it. xD

    *Oneechanbara FTW!
    **Yes, I'm thinking of RE4's Ashley Graham and her knight costume. xD
    I that's a fair point, but I actually think the model hurt some of Telltale's games. I thought Jurassic Park AND BTTF were very underwhelming. It just didn't fit with the Episodic Model very well.

    But the episodic model actually fits with The Walking Dead. Like some others said before in other posts, TWD is an episodic series..we have volumes that come out weekly-monthly for the comics, weekly episodes for the TV show, and now monthly episodes for the game. Fans have to bear the burden of waiting for ALL of these come out just to see what comes out next. So I'm not complaining with this, it even gives the developers room and time to develop and debug.
  • puzzleboxpuzzlebox Telltale Alumni
    edited May 2012
    Xirsche wrote: »
    But the episodic model actually fits with The Walking Dead.
    [...]
    I'm not complaining with this, it even gives the developers room and time to develop and debug.

    One of the greatest things is that sometimes you actually see fan feedback implemented in later episodes. In Tales of Monkey Island for example, Winslow was originally planned to be a relatively unimportant character, but was given an expanded role after people went nuts for him in the first episode. It's pretty awesome to see players influencing the game in ways like that.
  • edited May 2012
    I that's a fair point, but I actually think the model hurt some of Telltale's games. I thought Jurassic Park AND BTTF were very underwhelming. It just didn't fit with the Episodic Model very well.

    I would agree with you on Jurassic Park (definitely not among the "Almost all" I was thinking of) -- and I wonder if there would have been more exploration and true interactivity in later episodes, had there been opportunity to receive and respond to feedback on the first. Releasing as a one-shot package eliminated many of the advantages of the episodic model. But I think The Walking Dead makes much more appropriate use of the QTE experience gained on JP, so it wasn't a total waste.

    I gather I'm in the minority, but I really enjoyed the BTTF game -- I hadn't seen any of the movies before playing the game, so it's possible I just enjoyed being introduced to the story's universe and didn't mind the straightforward gameplay. (Obviously I was familiar with the concept and characters -- one of those pop-culture things you can't really avoid absorbing, even without exposure to the source!)
  • edited May 2012
    I would agree with you on Jurassic Park (definitely not among the "Almost all" I was thinking of) -- and I wonder if there would have been more exploration and true interactivity in later episodes, had there been opportunity to receive and respond to feedback on the first. Releasing as a one-shot package eliminated many of the advantages of the episodic model. But I think The Walking Dead makes much more appropriate use of the QTE experience gained on JP, so it wasn't a total waste.

    I gather I'm in the minority, but I really enjoyed the BTTF game -- I hadn't seen any of the movies before playing the game, so it's possible I just enjoyed being introduced to the story's universe and didn't mind the straightforward gameplay. (Obviously I was familiar with the concept and characters -- one of those pop-culture things you can't really avoid absorbing, even without exposure to the source!)

    I liked the BTTF game, but I didn't think it didn't reach its full potential, obviously.
    Xirsche wrote: »
    But the episodic model actually fits with The Walking Dead. Like some others said before in other posts, TWD is an episodic series..we have volumes that come out weekly-monthly for the comics, weekly episodes for the TV show, and now monthly episodes for the game. Fans have to bear the burden of waiting for ALL of these come out just to see what comes out next. So I'm not complaining with this, it even gives the developers room and time to develop and debug.
    ...you didn't read my previous posts, did you? That's what I said. Quoting myself:
    What are you talking about?

    In any case, I will say this: I dislike Episodic Gaming, but not enough to be angry at Telltale Games, but I am annoyed by it. That being said, Walking Dead is MADE for Episodic Gaming... because IT IS ALREADY EPISODIC. I repeat... IT IS ALREADY EPISODIC. TV Shows? EPISODIC. Comic Book Series? EPISODIC.

    It FITS. For once it's FEATURE of the series, not just Telltale Games trying to convert it to an Episodic Series.
  • CapnJayCapnJay Banned
    edited May 2012
    Xirsche wrote: »
    Highschool or College Tomboy outfit for Lilly - $9.99
    Two-Piece Bikini and Cowgirl Hat for Carly* - $4.99
    Weighted Suit of Armor for Clementine** - $9.99
    Disco Jacket for Lee - $4.99
    Lumberjack outfit for Larry - $4.99
    TF2 Scout outfit for Glenn - $4.99
    TF2 Engineer outfit for Doug - $4.99
    Hershel Disguise mask for Kenny - $4.99

    I can just see it. xD

    *Oneechanbara FTW!
    **Yes, I'm thinking of RE4's Ashley Graham and her knight costume. xD

    Thats exactly what i was thinking when you said armor too. when i said armor i thought about it but then i mentally shifted to zombie proof armor.


    Sybil Pandemik Skin for Carley
    Flint Paper Skin for Larry
    Orange jumpsuit for Lee
  • edited May 2012
    CapnJay wrote: »
    Thats exactly what i was thinking when you said armor too. when i said armor i thought about it but then i mentally shifted to zombie proof armor.


    Sybil Pandemik Skin for Carley
    Flint Paper Skin for Larry
    Orange jumpsuit for Lee

    Lol zombie-proof armor is exactly what I mean by that. In RE4, Ashley's armor makes her freakin' invincible to anything! She can't be lifted by the enemy and carried off, or bullets or even explosions work on her..and if a freaking grenade won't do the trick, I sincerely doubt a zombie will hold a dime to it. ;)

    BTW, Capn, just for trolling sake, what if there was a doctored picture of Larry and Lee, both in orange prison suits, with Larry looking over Lee's shoulder with a smug grin on his face, and Lee looking back like "Oh HELL naw!"? I'd die laughing my lungs out!
  • CapnJayCapnJay Banned
    edited May 2012
    Xirsche wrote: »
    Lol zombie-proof armor is exactly what I mean by that. In RE4, Ashley's armor makes her freakin' invincible to anything! She can't be lifted by the enemy and carried off, or bullets or even explosions work on her..and if a freaking grenade won't do the trick, I sincerely doubt a zombie will hold a dime to it. ;)

    BTW, Capn, just for trolling sake, what if there was a doctored picture of Larry and Lee, both in orange prison suits, with Larry looking over Lee's shoulder with a smug grin on his face, and Lee looking back like "Oh HELL naw!"? I'd die laughing my lungs out!

    Larry: I'm watching you murderer.
    Lee: You got yourself thrown in jail just so you could watch me?
    Larry makes the im watching you gesture.
    Lee: Son of a *Bleep*
  • edited May 2012
    CapnJay wrote: »
    Larry: I'm watching you murderer.
    Lee: You got yourself thrown in jail just so you could watch me?
    Larry makes the im watching you gesture.
    Lee: Son of a *Bleep*

    Larry: I'll make sure you don't so much as THINK of my daughter.
    Lee: And I'll make sure to throw any keys to any pharmacies we come across out into Walker-land and keep you from recovering!
    Larry: You sunuva--
    Glenn: You like egg salad? I found it in one of those, er..zombified buffets.
    Lee & Larry: ...
  • CapnJayCapnJay Banned
    edited May 2012
    Xirsche wrote: »
    Larry: I'll make sure you don't so much as THINK of my daughter.
    Lee: And I'll make sure to throw any keys to any pharmacies we come across out into Walker-land and keep you from recovering!
    Larry: You sunuva--
    Glenn: You like egg salad? I found it in one of those, er..zombified buffets.
    Lee & Larry: ...

    The idea of Glenn just randomly popping in tickles me. I keep imagine him popping into view from impossible angles desperate for a little bit more screen time
  • edited May 2012
    CapnJay wrote: »
    The idea of Glenn just randomly popping in tickles me. I keep imagine him popping into view from impossible angles desperate for a little bit more screen time

    Yeah, that's hilarious. I'd even find it funny if Glenn popped out from behind Larry or, to *BLEEP* Larry off, Lilly's shirt or something..'course if that happened, Maggie would NOT be happy. :P
  • edited May 2012
    I am 61 ,I never waited 5 Month to play a game . I will never do this again...............
  • VainamoinenVainamoinen Moderator
    edited May 2012
    Good news then. You will probably only have to wait 4 months, and almost three weeks of the first are already over.
  • CapnJayCapnJay Banned
    edited May 2012
    Xirsche wrote: »
    Yeah, that's hilarious. I'd even find it funny if Glenn popped out from behind Larry or, to *BLEEP* Larry off, Lilly's shirt or something..'course if that happened, Maggie would NOT be happy. :P

    Glenn's head just sticking out of Lily's Cleavage
    Glenn: Did Somebody call me?

    Lee hears a rattling in a rattling in a drier at a laundromat that has power for some reason he opens the door and Glenn sticks his head out
    Glenn: Hey Guys!

    They break into an abandoned house

    Kenny : Lee check the cabinets for anything we can use to bandage Larry's leg
    Lee checks the first cabinet
    Lee:Nothing in here
    Lee checks the second cabinet
    Lee: Nothing in here
    Lee checks the third cabinet:
    Glenn sticks his head out
    Glenn: Hey Guys!
  • edited May 2012
    I that's a fair point, but I actually think the model hurt some of Telltale's games. I thought Jurassic Park AND BTTF were very underwhelming. It just didn't fit with the Episodic Model very well.

    Jurassic Park wasn't episodic, it was released all at once.

    And BTTF was poor not because of the episodic model, but because telltale thought it smart to dumb the game down to preschool level for newbies(It wasn't smart at all).
  • edited May 2012
    Developing video games takes a long time.
  • edited May 2012
    Had you known it was so episodical; with release dates as ephemeral as the tax returns of most 1%ers in the U.S. ?

    My answer : Absolutely not.

    I have a tendency to be a fan-boy however; & the very HINT of a Walking dead game got me to not only purchase it; but as "head" ( heheh) of the zombie-preparation team in my area; had me purchase SEVERAL copies for friends and the like who I know enjoy the genre as well as the show.

    Poorly done Telltale.

    From what I read; I suspect you are pulling a "Lost" writers' convention; & actually writing/releasing the episodes according to viewer feedback on the forums.

    ("We didn't know what the smoke monster really was..we just paid attention to the forums and made sure it was NOT what most people claimed they thought!..")

    Would never have bought the game had I known it had a tw-hour playthrough ( with inturrupting phone calls ) & that our releases for further episodes were going to be so long in coming.

    Won't make that mistake again with your company.
  • edited May 2012
    Yes i would have.
    Hell i would have paid 25$ for each episode to.

    Why?
    I love zombies. I love The walking dead. And this is a good zombie game. Doesnt happen to often.

    But ya, i might wait untill all episodes are released to play further....
  • edited May 2012
    My answer: Yes.

    It's funny you say at the very HINT of a zombie game you went out and bought several copies. So much like the beginning of "Shaun of the Dead" you mindlessly zombified your way through the purchase, not caring to do the human thing and actually think.

    A cursory examination of telltales site shows that all its games are episodic, if you bought it off steam, its page gives you all the information necessary.

    So really, poorly done you.

    The mistake you really shouldn't be making again is not doing any research on what you're buying before you buy it.

    As for the wait, do you get "the Walking Dead" comics or did you complain about their episodic nature and refuse to 'make that mistake again'?

    Sorry for the little rant and all but I think you're being very unfair to telltale in your complaint, blaming them for something you were responsible for. Welcome to the forums! :)
  • edited May 2012
    Lars80 wrote: »
    Yes i would have.
    Hell i would have paid 25$ for each episode to.

    Why?
    I love zombies. I love The walking dead. And this is a good zombie game. Doesnt happen to often.

    But ya, i might wait untill all episodes are released to play further....

    Me too buddy!

    Honestly, I'm 100% satisfied with my purchase and the game itself.
    Sure, it could have 10000 episodes, and they could be twice in a week....
    But I'm happy anyway!
  • edited May 2012
    Oh, I did read the pages provided about the game during it's pre-releae on steam; & tbh it worried me the lack of developer input on the actual timetable of the game's release even then... It didn't stop me from dumping cash on the game prior to it's release however.

    I agree with your conclusion; & havn't tried to refute... it was 'my bad'.

    I also stand by my impression that it is an unimpressive business model to follow.

    Combine this with the most informative thread on the subject being a fan-based poll about the suspected releae date of the next episode....

    I & everyone else I personally speak to about it agrees; we won't support such in the future. ;) It's no disrespect; it's a matter of consumer-taste.
  • edited May 2012
    Antioche wrote: »
    Oh, I did read the pages provided about the game during it's pre-releae on steam; & tbh it worried me the lack of developer input on the actual timetable of the game's release even then... It didn't stop me from dumping cash on the game prior to it's release however.

    I agree with your conclusion; & havn't tried to refute... it was 'my bad'.

    I also stand by my impression that it is an unimpressive business model to follow.

    Combine this with the most informative thread on the subject being a fan-based poll about the suspected releae date of the next episode....

    I & everyone else I personally speak to about it agrees; we won't support such in the future. ;) It's no disrespect; it's a matter of consumer-taste.

    I agree about the business model.... but if they are used to it... It's the way that should work for them...

    I'm sure they read each comment here...and think about it..

    On other hand we can't wait for sudden changes, right??
This discussion has been closed.