I quite sympathised with Ben, beacause he is very similar to me. He is an awkward teenager who is always trying to help but ends up screwing up.
So no, I didn´t drop him. When I was holding his hand I immediately began smashing the "Q" key, even though there was nothing in the screen telling me to. And when he and Kenny asked me to drop them, I began yelling to the sream "NO! I DON´T WANT TO! I DON´T WANT TO! I DON´T WANT TO!!!"
I'm actually really happy to see the results like this
I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be a lot better in a zombie apocalypse. I mean, I'm his age, I'm not strong whatsoever, unlike Lee, and even he has trouble sometimes. So I'm happy to see a lot of people probably wouldn't drop me either
I'd rather be stuck in a ZA with those people, than the people who dropped Ben.
I saved him, i wasn't really bothered over carley's death nor all the following scenarios at followed due to his actions. Mostly because he is only a teenager and unlike Lee and other survivors can't just become Supreme zombie survivor elite.
That and he was a freind of clementine and if she is willing to stand up against the entire group to defend him i will aswell.
I'm actually really happy to see the results like this
I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be a lot better in a zombie apocalypse. I mean, I'm his age, I'm not strong whatsoever, unlike Lee, and even he has trouble sometimes. So I'm happy to see a lot of people probably wouldn't drop me either
I'd rather be stuck in a ZA with those people, than the people who dropped Ben.
I don't think killing Ben for the sake of "getting rid of dead weight" is plausible, everybody is important in times like a ZA, even young kids who constantly screw up. I believe that since he had no malice in his heart that he shouldn't be sacrificed for no reason, now if I had to make a choice between saving him and Clem, Clem will live.
I don't think Ben is cowardly, he just hasn't figured it out yet. No one knows for sure how they would react in a combat situation (let alone a ZA) unless you have experienced it. Some of the toughest people I met were too scared to act in combat and those I thought couldn't handle it were fine. I believe once you accept your fate in dangerous situations like this (accept the fact you are a dead man/woman walking on borrowed time) you begin to act more and think less. However, even the toughest people can reach a breaking point and just freeze up, nothing is for certain.
Ben is not a murderer and is not an evil person, he is a young kid who needs guidance and direction. Shame on Lee for putting Ben in critical situations over and over (watching Clem) again until he proves himself.
I don't think killing Ben for the sake of "getting rid of dead weight" is plausible, everybody is important in times like a ZA, even young kids who constantly screw up. I believe that since he had no malice in his heart that he shouldn't be sacrificed for no reason, now if I had to make a choice between saving him and Clem, Clem will live.
I don't think Ben is cowardly, he just hasn't figured it out yet. No one knows for sure how they would react in a combat situation (let alone a ZA) unless you have experienced it. Some of the toughest people I met were too scared to act in combat and those I thought couldn't handle it were fine. I believe once you accept your fate in dangerous situations like this (accept the fact you are a dead man/woman walking on borrowed time) you begin to act more and think less. However, even the toughest people can reach a breaking point and just freeze up, nothing is for certain.
Ben is not a murderer and is not an evil person, he is a young kid who needs guidance and direction. Shame on Lee for putting Ben in critical situations over and over (watching Clem) again until he proves himself.
Alright, allow me to quote you specifically, but this is also for Fabrimuch, FarmerJoe and magodesky;
We all know that Ben never intentionally harmed the group and really just wanted to do the best for the group. He's not a bad guy.
But I doubt that it matters in the end. The group is already very small and vulnerable, constantly on the move and yes, they need every helping hand they can find.
Ben, however, unfortunately wasn't able to be an actual helping hand as of yet, albeit having survived for at least 3 months prior to being found by Lee's group. I am slightly entering "Advocatus Diaboli" terrain here, but..well..good intentions alone just don't keep the group fed and alive. It's kind of safe to assume that food rations are rare, ammunition, too and in the end, there really is too less room on the boat for everyone.
If Lee hadn't been bitten later on, everyone who let Ben live would have come to a point where he or she had to decide whom to leave behind. Some would have chosen themselves, since this is a video game and the most altruistic decision, but I doubt that they'd do the same in a real situation.
And in this situation, Ben would be the most obvious choice anyways.
I also don't agree that Ben just needs guidance and direction. He's an 18 years young man. He is certainly old enough to figure things out on his own and to be trusted with said "critical situations". He also has experienced more than enough situations to acknowledge the seriousness of the tasks (which is a perfectly valid unmistakable guidance anyways) he's provided with, he never even started to learn. It just can't be used as an overall-excuse for everything anymore.
This would be okay - Clem isn't that much more helpful, either, but Ben also never ceased to think and communicate that he'd be capable to help nevertheless, ultimately putting everyone in great danger.
Lee could just start to treat Ben like Clementine, like a big incapable child, but Ben would either accept it and get totally depressed over it with no way to develop according to his age or not accept it and go on doing stupid stuff, thinking that he might finally succeed.
Both outcomes aren't that appealing to me.
Now...I wouldn't have dropped him in a real situation (as long as the zombies weren't too close) and I wouldn't even have cast him out of the group as long as possible (I didn't even vote against him in the school but remained silent), but I recognized this situation as the game's way to choose between letting him be a valuable part of the group (which he actually never was) or not, with no real gray shades in between (given the fact that you had no choice but to watch Lee giving Ben the tasks he had been assigned to before). I was obviously wrong since the game still lets you choose between taking him with you to find Clem or not, but I wasn't aware of that back then.
I pulled him up, and at first I didn't understand why. In fact, I had threatened to kill him multiple times fairly recently, and I'd voted him off the boat AND I agree that he's a huge liability to the group. Looking back, though, I think I understand why I pulled him up.
I think the creators did a really good job of balancing the scales on both sides - obviously there was a lot going against Ben, but they had just spend the last two hours talking about Crawford and putting the thought into your mind that killing off someone just because they're weak is a terrible thing to do.
I totally understand why people would let him die, I don't begrudge them at all for doing it. But I'll also say that this is literally the only major decision in the game that I haven't second-guessed myself on or regretted and wondered if I should have done it differently. I ended up feeling pretty good that I saved him, especially since he's helping me with Clementine.
Speaking of the boat space, if it came down to having to get rid of one or two people as mentioned, yes, Ben would be a candidate. But I no way would equate dropping him to his death and telling him he can't get on the boat as the same.
I also would expect that just because someone is 18 doesn't make them wise, it's not an excuse but there are a lot of people right now that would straight buckle under the weight of a ZA, even some people who could survive. I'm not excusing Ben's mistakes, but Ben is Ben, he needs a guide and someone to help him, not an executioner hell bent on exacting revenge for his poor decisions.
I also would be more inclined to leave Ben or execute Ben (if it came to that) if the group voted on it, but not on my own and surely not for Kenny.
ben is young and couldn't drop him because i know he made the group out the camp but that was for the best and the bell tower was for getting out faster so I pulled him up
But I no way would equate dropping him to his death and telling him he can't get on the boat as the same.
But it is. You certainly don't think that Ben would be able to survive more than a day or two without the help of the group, right? I mean..that's the whole point why you'd vote against him in the first place. It just makes you feel better, being uncertain about his fate and not having him "killed" actively.
Seen in this light, dropping him could even been seen as some sort of act of mercy, since dying a sudden death is better than hours or possibly days of fear, sleeplessness and thirst before slowly getting eaten by zombies. I'm not sure if this is a valid point of view, but it's at least an option.
I also would expect that just because someone is 18 doesn't make them wise, it's not an excuse but there are a lot of people right now that would straight buckle under the weight of a ZA, even some people who could survive.
Sure thing, but it's the unavoidable reality in the TWD world. And people do get used to it, like they did in ancient times.
What angered me most about Ben when he let Clem leave the house to search for Lee wasn't the fact that he put Clem in danger, but the fact that he didn't acknowledge the seriousness of his task and the responsibility he had. He had seen people die before, including his teacher and his friend, and he still sat on that couch in the house and talked like she was just playing on the swing outside anyways.
This is one of the reasons why I don't think that simple guidance would help.
Making mistakes like his in the real world are all fine and good, but he needs to use his brain in a world like this. Stupid mistake can get you, and everyone else, killed. He has had an influence in many deaths in the game so far, and that is unforgivable.
And as for my last bit of text, he didn't really want to die. Just like he said "Just let me out of the car, ill go" in episode 3. He's acting like a boy. He never really wanted to go, he even admitted he wouldn't know what to do, the group is the only thing keeping him alive. By him saying "Just let me go!" is him being stupid trying to use reverse psychology. That is how I saw it anyway. Even if you save him everyone gets away, so him sacrificing himself goes in vain anyway- so its not so noble is it? It all comes down if he should pay for his crimes or not.
Like Chuck said in episode 3. "You gotta consider her a living person. That's it. You're either living or you're not. You ain't little, you ain't a girl, you ain't a boy, you ain't strong or smart. You're alive."
Ben is a boy.
Well it appears your missing the point of Chucks words entirely. Chuck given the situation wouldn't drop Ben, want to know why? He's fucked up many times, but at the end of the day, He is alive, are any of the people he got killed still alive? no they aren't, who are you saving? noone, your just adding to the death count, Dropping Ben could only be justified if you were dropping him to save someone else, and this is why I'll never agree that Ben should have died there, not even if he gets the entire group killed in EP5 (Like that'll happen).
Ben never said he wanted to leave, he said 'Let me out of this, I don't like where this is headed' trying to get out of the argument, because he knew something was about to happen, he's obviously happy he's a part of the group, I mean listen to what he says by the train on EP3, he says its with you guys or dead, he even acknowledges that if he wasn't with the group he would have died.
Dropping Ben is more unforgivable than his mistakes, because your not indirectly killing someone when you drop him, your murdering him, Ben has Never killed someone on purpose, not once, not even in self defense, your Lee on the otherhand...
I saved him, I know he did those reasons you put, but he's a good person, and he just wants to live like us, and I don't want Clem sad that he was dead, AND before you post stuff saying, "But he almost got her killed!", I KNOW. But he's her friend, and I want him to survive. That's why I saved him.
I just rewinded. Ok, Ben made some horrible decisions, but nothing justifies let him to die like this. And to be fair Kenny made some bad decisions too and even Clementine. I figured we just have to be better than them and forgive (isn't this cute?)
The way I look at it, Ben is not a bad person. He is young, impulsive and a bit stupid, but that is not good enough reasons to want him dead. It's not like Ben is the only character to screw up either. Kenny got Shane killed by running away and either him or Lilly almost got Lee killed in episode 2 by refusing to help him against the St John brothers!
The bandits would have attacked us sooner or later. It was only Ben buying them off that made sure it wasn't sooner than it was. He obviously regretted his poor choices and shortcomings and wants to make things right.
And lets not forget that Clementine voted for him. She wanted to keep him alive and in the group. And at the end of the day thats good enough for me.
Saving Ben neither puts you or your group in danger, as Lee's able to drag him up in 3 seconds without any consequences.
I dont really see any differences between letting him drop or shooting him when you're alone. Well, maybe shooting him on the street is way more merciful than breaking his leg and then letting him being eaten alive.
If you kill Ben, you show that you're not better than Crawford.
I felt like to drop him made the player no better than the Crawford group.
Being "voted" off the island and all that.
I don't believe in Eugenics, so it wasn't my call to decided if he was not worth living.
I pulled him up. Besides Telltale will make it so that saving Ben will be a huge bonus in having a "decent" ending.
I'll tell you what...the guy on the walkie talkie was the owner of the car full of goods that was taken after the St. John's dairy. I bet his wife and little girl died as a result. Did no one else notice that there was a sweater that was about Clem's size in the car.
I felt like to drop him made the player no better than the Crawford group.
Being "voted" off the island and all that.
I don't believe in Eugenics, so it wasn't my call to decided if he was not worth living.
I pulled him up. Besides Telltale will make it so that saving Ben will be a huge bonus in having a "decent" ending.
I'll tell you what...the guy on the walkie talkie was the owner of the car full of goods that was taken after the St. John's dairy. I bet his wife and little girl died as a result. Did no one else notice that there was a sweater that was about Clem's size in the car.
Or Ben does something stupid that ends up hurting the group
Lee's able to drag him up in 3 seconds without any consequences.
[...] breaking his leg and then letting him being eaten alive.
To be fair: These are things that you don't know in that situation, only later.
Most players seem to stick with their choices instead of rewinding and doing it again, though, so that's not really an argument.
If you kill Ben, you show that you're not better than Crawford.
You are. Crawford did what it did in a very systematic way, they were basically the Nazis of the TWD world. Dropping Ben on the other hand is just..dropping Ben, be it wrong or right, but you don't automatically follow a zero-tolerance agenda with it (except you'd also kill Clem and maybe even Omid and call it "fit for survival" afterwards). There are more than enough reasons why you'd want to kill him. If you've played episode 3 right before the 4th one, and for the first time, you'd probably just be angry about Carley's/Doug's death on top of what he did in ep. 4. Or you were really just afraid of getting yourself eaten while pulling Ben up. There are more than enough reasons for not being Crawford.
Besides Telltale will make it so that saving Ben will be a huge bonus in having a "decent" ending.
We'll see, right?
Given the statistics, it's not really hard to let Ben live, so I see no point in doing that. It also wouldn't necessarily be true to Kirkman's world, since pragmatic decisions are what keeps people alive, so there's no happy ending to be expected either way.
I'll tell you what...the guy on the walkie talkie was the owner of the car full of goods that was taken after the St. John's dairy. I bet his wife and little girl died as a result. Did no one else notice that there was a sweater that was about Clem's size in the car.
Interesting theory.
But a pretty decent amount of people didn't take anything from the car, and Clem knew that, so why should that man bear a grudge on Lee anyways?
We'll see, right?
Given the statistics, it's not really hard to let Ben live, so I see no point in doing that. It also wouldn't necessarily be true to Kirkman's world, since pragmatic decisions are what keeps people alive, so there's no happy ending to be expected either way.
Interesting theory.
But a pretty decent amount of people didn't take anything from the car, and Clem knew that, so why should that man bear a grudge on Lee anyways?
To be honest I wouldn't be surprised if letting Ben "go" or leaving him behind was the best choice. But I would like to think that Ben redeems himself as he said he would.
While the rest of us know that Lee didn't take anything how would the radio person know? Sure, Clem can tell him that Lee didn't take anything, but people motivated by revenge are not easily swayed by truth and logic. Plus it all ties nicely into the story instead of just having this random insane stalker it turns out to be a enemy of their own making.
I pulled him up. Yeah, he's made some dumb choices, but so has everyone else. He's young and stupid, but he means well. Not to mention, there's no excuse for dropping him to his death. If it was a choice between helping him or helping someone like Clem or, hell, even Molly, yeah, I would have let him die, but that's not the case.
Whether he lives or dies, everyone else escapes that bell tower. Dropping him when you could have easily pulled him up without making any sacrifices feels a whole lot like murder to me.
I have to confess.. I didn't even shoot the zombie that grabbed him, I just waited till the timer ran out and they both dropped down. I was suprised later when Kenny said to Clem about what I did, because at that part only me and Ben were in the tower. Also if you do it my way he'll just scream ''lee!!'' when he's being pulled down and keeps on screaming Lee at the bottom of the tower.
I felt kinda bad about it afterwards
I have to confess.. I didn't even shoot the zombie that grabbed him, I just waited till the timer ran out and they both dropped down. I was suprised later when Kenny said to Clem about what I did, because at that part only me and Ben were in the tower. Also if you do it my way he'll just scream ''lee!!'' when he's being pulled down and keeps on screaming Lee at the bottom of the tower.
I felt kinda bad about it afterwards
That's so cold and heartless
"Lee!"
"I don't think so,go to hell Ben,I wont even waste a single bullet to save your worthless ass,bye bye shitbird"
"LEEEEEEEEEE!"
I pulled him up, I did not think he was to blame for anything other than leaving Clem and getting Chuck ate by zombies. First Lilly killed Carley/Doug. They defended him but in the end Lilly was the one who did it not Ben. Also think about this. Everyone blames Ben for letting the bandits in and giving them food and supplies but they would have attacked anyway. It was only a matter of time before their food supply runs out and then the bandits would have attacked anyway. Kat died because Duck was bit.
Ummmmm... Sorry. Wrong. Where I come from, here on Earth, it takes courage to face your death without begging for your life. It takes MUCH courage to tell someone to abandon you when you can already nearly feel your guts getting torn out while you're still alive.
Please rethink that statement and try again.
Could be you are mistaking Ben's idiocy as bravery.
Saving Ben neither puts you or your group in danger, as Lee's able to drag him up in 3 seconds without any consequences.
I dont really see any differences between letting him drop or shooting him when you're alone. Well, maybe shooting him on the street is way more merciful than breaking his leg and then letting him being eaten alive.
If you kill Ben, you show that you're not better than Crawford.
He pleaded for being dropped. It's not the same as killing him at cold blood, you are wrong.
For God's sake, even he avoids to give his hand to Lee to being pulled up.
And one last thing: You don't know how much time you will need in those situations to drag somebody up. Zombies are near and one moron doesn't want to cooperate for save his own life. Hell, you are holding him up by his jacket's sleeve.
The decision was clear.
Now Ben it's a hero. I forgive him for every fatal mistakes he did and I will remember him as a hero.
I let him go without second thoughts. After his herp derp screw-up in Crawford that could've gotten everyone killed, I probably would've had it with him even if that was his only screw-up and it wasn't, in fact, every death the group suffered in Ep. 3 and Ep. 4 was indirectly the result of him doing something stupid and good intentions can't change that. I'll give him some credit though, in the end he realized what a liability he was and encouraged Lee to do what needed to be done. Now, there's one less issue I'll be worrying about going into Ep. 5.
I let him go because for once in his life, he could be brave and useful, and he begged me to. I felt pretty bad about it though, I wanted to punch Kenny in the nose when he blurted it out to everyone later, though.
If you kill Ben, you show that you're not better than Crawford.
There are other reasons to let Ben go than that.
I liked Ben. He screwed up a lot but he was a good guy and I always tried to give him the benefit of the doubt. I had no desire to kill him or let him be killed. But I dropped him for one reason, and one reason only - because he wanted me to.
Dropping Ben was no different than giving the girl the gun all the way back in Episode 1. He wanted to die. He felt guilty for all the trouble he caused and wanted to die. More than that, he wanted to die as a hero, sacrificing himself to give the group a chance to get away. If he showed any sign of wanting to be saved, I would have pulled him up but he made it clear he didn't want that. In a zombie apocalypse, choosing how and when you go is a luxury most people don't get. Why should I have taken that away from him? I let that kid die as a hero, that does not make me like the people in Crawford.
Dropping Ben was no different than giving the girl the gun all the way back in Episode 1. He wanted to die. He felt guilty for all the trouble he caused and wanted to die. More than that, he wanted to die as a hero, sacrificing himself to give the group a chance to get away.
EXACTLY this. A person has a right to decide whether they want to live or die, in my opinion, and Ben begged me to let him die. It wasn't a choice I made with any joy, but it was the choice Ben wanted. Ben wanted to atone for his mistakes, and he seemed to feel that was the best way to do it.
Faced with insurmountable odds, I really wonder how many people would keep soldiering on in the face of what could be a never-ending zombie apocalypse, and how many would just want to check out as soon as possible.
EXACTLY this. A person has a right to decide whether they want to live or die, in my opinion, and Ben begged me to let him die. It wasn't a choice I made with any joy, but it was the choice Ben wanted. Ben wanted to atone for his mistakes, and he seemed to feel that was the best way to do it.
Faced with insurmountable odds, I really wonder how many people would keep soldiering on in the face of what could be a never-ending zombie apocalypse, and how many would just want to check out as soon as possible.
Ben was suicidal because of an overwhelming emotion, not because of careful consideration about the zombie apocalypse and a decision to escape it. He wasn't in his right mind to make the choice to die.
The girl who wanted the gun was going to turn into a zombie and was also suicidal. She wasn't in the right mind to make the choice either. Both needed to be calmed down and talk about their situation and choices, but there was no one trained in suicide prevention. Maybe Katjaa would still be alive if the group had anyone trained in suicide prevention.
However, Ben and the girl's situations were very different. Ben's suicidal impulse was a permanent tragedy for a temporary emotion. The girl was facing an incurable medical condition that was going to lead to more suffering for her (and those around her). So, after talking it over, death would probably be the right choice for her. She could go more at peace, though, instead of frightened and alone. For Ben? There was no reason to die, and someone should have stepped in and stopped the suicide.
Comments
By being a dirty little no good punk thief traitor scumbag.
So no, I didn´t drop him. When I was holding his hand I immediately began smashing the "Q" key, even though there was nothing in the screen telling me to. And when he and Kenny asked me to drop them, I began yelling to the sream "NO! I DON´T WANT TO! I DON´T WANT TO! I DON´T WANT TO!!!"
I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be a lot better in a zombie apocalypse. I mean, I'm his age, I'm not strong whatsoever, unlike Lee, and even he has trouble sometimes. So I'm happy to see a lot of people probably wouldn't drop me either
I'd rather be stuck in a ZA with those people, than the people who dropped Ben.
That and he was a freind of clementine and if she is willing to stand up against the entire group to defend him i will aswell.
Yes, there is hope for us all yet.
I don't think Ben is cowardly, he just hasn't figured it out yet. No one knows for sure how they would react in a combat situation (let alone a ZA) unless you have experienced it. Some of the toughest people I met were too scared to act in combat and those I thought couldn't handle it were fine. I believe once you accept your fate in dangerous situations like this (accept the fact you are a dead man/woman walking on borrowed time) you begin to act more and think less. However, even the toughest people can reach a breaking point and just freeze up, nothing is for certain.
Ben is not a murderer and is not an evil person, he is a young kid who needs guidance and direction. Shame on Lee for putting Ben in critical situations over and over (watching Clem) again until he proves himself.
Alright, allow me to quote you specifically, but this is also for Fabrimuch, FarmerJoe and magodesky;
We all know that Ben never intentionally harmed the group and really just wanted to do the best for the group. He's not a bad guy.
But I doubt that it matters in the end. The group is already very small and vulnerable, constantly on the move and yes, they need every helping hand they can find.
Ben, however, unfortunately wasn't able to be an actual helping hand as of yet, albeit having survived for at least 3 months prior to being found by Lee's group. I am slightly entering "Advocatus Diaboli" terrain here, but..well..good intentions alone just don't keep the group fed and alive. It's kind of safe to assume that food rations are rare, ammunition, too and in the end, there really is too less room on the boat for everyone.
If Lee hadn't been bitten later on, everyone who let Ben live would have come to a point where he or she had to decide whom to leave behind. Some would have chosen themselves, since this is a video game and the most altruistic decision, but I doubt that they'd do the same in a real situation.
And in this situation, Ben would be the most obvious choice anyways.
I also don't agree that Ben just needs guidance and direction. He's an 18 years young man. He is certainly old enough to figure things out on his own and to be trusted with said "critical situations". He also has experienced more than enough situations to acknowledge the seriousness of the tasks (which is a perfectly valid unmistakable guidance anyways) he's provided with, he never even started to learn. It just can't be used as an overall-excuse for everything anymore.
This would be okay - Clem isn't that much more helpful, either, but Ben also never ceased to think and communicate that he'd be capable to help nevertheless, ultimately putting everyone in great danger.
Lee could just start to treat Ben like Clementine, like a big incapable child, but Ben would either accept it and get totally depressed over it with no way to develop according to his age or not accept it and go on doing stupid stuff, thinking that he might finally succeed.
Both outcomes aren't that appealing to me.
Now...I wouldn't have dropped him in a real situation (as long as the zombies weren't too close) and I wouldn't even have cast him out of the group as long as possible (I didn't even vote against him in the school but remained silent), but I recognized this situation as the game's way to choose between letting him be a valuable part of the group (which he actually never was) or not, with no real gray shades in between (given the fact that you had no choice but to watch Lee giving Ben the tasks he had been assigned to before). I was obviously wrong since the game still lets you choose between taking him with you to find Clem or not, but I wasn't aware of that back then.
I think the creators did a really good job of balancing the scales on both sides - obviously there was a lot going against Ben, but they had just spend the last two hours talking about Crawford and putting the thought into your mind that killing off someone just because they're weak is a terrible thing to do.
I totally understand why people would let him die, I don't begrudge them at all for doing it. But I'll also say that this is literally the only major decision in the game that I haven't second-guessed myself on or regretted and wondered if I should have done it differently. I ended up feeling pretty good that I saved him, especially since he's helping me with Clementine.
That Ben died in that belltower. Who I pulled up was... someone new.
If Ben continues to grow, or reverts to type remains to be seen.
I get the feeling he changed at that point. And because of that, I feel he deserved a chance to see it through.
I also would expect that just because someone is 18 doesn't make them wise, it's not an excuse but there are a lot of people right now that would straight buckle under the weight of a ZA, even some people who could survive. I'm not excusing Ben's mistakes, but Ben is Ben, he needs a guide and someone to help him, not an executioner hell bent on exacting revenge for his poor decisions.
I also would be more inclined to leave Ben or execute Ben (if it came to that) if the group voted on it, but not on my own and surely not for Kenny.
Seen in this light, dropping him could even been seen as some sort of act of mercy, since dying a sudden death is better than hours or possibly days of fear, sleeplessness and thirst before slowly getting eaten by zombies. I'm not sure if this is a valid point of view, but it's at least an option.
Sure thing, but it's the unavoidable reality in the TWD world. And people do get used to it, like they did in ancient times.
What angered me most about Ben when he let Clem leave the house to search for Lee wasn't the fact that he put Clem in danger, but the fact that he didn't acknowledge the seriousness of his task and the responsibility he had. He had seen people die before, including his teacher and his friend, and he still sat on that couch in the house and talked like she was just playing on the swing outside anyways.
This is one of the reasons why I don't think that simple guidance would help.
Well it appears your missing the point of Chucks words entirely. Chuck given the situation wouldn't drop Ben, want to know why? He's fucked up many times, but at the end of the day, He is alive, are any of the people he got killed still alive? no they aren't, who are you saving? noone, your just adding to the death count, Dropping Ben could only be justified if you were dropping him to save someone else, and this is why I'll never agree that Ben should have died there, not even if he gets the entire group killed in EP5 (Like that'll happen).
Ben never said he wanted to leave, he said 'Let me out of this, I don't like where this is headed' trying to get out of the argument, because he knew something was about to happen, he's obviously happy he's a part of the group, I mean listen to what he says by the train on EP3, he says its with you guys or dead, he even acknowledges that if he wasn't with the group he would have died.
Dropping Ben is more unforgivable than his mistakes, because your not indirectly killing someone when you drop him, your murdering him, Ben has Never killed someone on purpose, not once, not even in self defense, your Lee on the otherhand...
And with this I had the best outcome possible:
The bandits would have attacked us sooner or later. It was only Ben buying them off that made sure it wasn't sooner than it was. He obviously regretted his poor choices and shortcomings and wants to make things right.
And lets not forget that Clementine voted for him. She wanted to keep him alive and in the group. And at the end of the day thats good enough for me.
I dont really see any differences between letting him drop or shooting him when you're alone. Well, maybe shooting him on the street is way more merciful than breaking his leg and then letting him being eaten alive.
If you kill Ben, you show that you're not better than Crawford.
Being "voted" off the island and all that.
I don't believe in Eugenics, so it wasn't my call to decided if he was not worth living.
I pulled him up. Besides Telltale will make it so that saving Ben will be a huge bonus in having a "decent" ending.
I'll tell you what...the guy on the walkie talkie was the owner of the car full of goods that was taken after the St. John's dairy. I bet his wife and little girl died as a result. Did no one else notice that there was a sweater that was about Clem's size in the car.
Or Ben does something stupid that ends up hurting the group
Most players seem to stick with their choices instead of rewinding and doing it again, though, so that's not really an argument.
You are. Crawford did what it did in a very systematic way, they were basically the Nazis of the TWD world. Dropping Ben on the other hand is just..dropping Ben, be it wrong or right, but you don't automatically follow a zero-tolerance agenda with it (except you'd also kill Clem and maybe even Omid and call it "fit for survival" afterwards). There are more than enough reasons why you'd want to kill him. If you've played episode 3 right before the 4th one, and for the first time, you'd probably just be angry about Carley's/Doug's death on top of what he did in ep. 4. Or you were really just afraid of getting yourself eaten while pulling Ben up. There are more than enough reasons for not being Crawford.
We'll see, right?
Given the statistics, it's not really hard to let Ben live, so I see no point in doing that. It also wouldn't necessarily be true to Kirkman's world, since pragmatic decisions are what keeps people alive, so there's no happy ending to be expected either way.
Interesting theory.
But a pretty decent amount of people didn't take anything from the car, and Clem knew that, so why should that man bear a grudge on Lee anyways?
To be honest I wouldn't be surprised if letting Ben "go" or leaving him behind was the best choice. But I would like to think that Ben redeems himself as he said he would.
While the rest of us know that Lee didn't take anything how would the radio person know? Sure, Clem can tell him that Lee didn't take anything, but people motivated by revenge are not easily swayed by truth and logic. Plus it all ties nicely into the story instead of just having this random insane stalker it turns out to be a enemy of their own making.
Whether he lives or dies, everyone else escapes that bell tower. Dropping him when you could have easily pulled him up without making any sacrifices feels a whole lot like murder to me.
I felt kinda bad about it afterwards
That's so cold and heartless
"Lee!"
"I don't think so,go to hell Ben,I wont even waste a single bullet to save your worthless ass,bye bye shitbird"
"LEEEEEEEEEE!"
Could be you are mistaking Ben's idiocy as bravery.
He pleaded for being dropped. It's not the same as killing him at cold blood, you are wrong.
For God's sake, even he avoids to give his hand to Lee to being pulled up.
And one last thing: You don't know how much time you will need in those situations to drag somebody up. Zombies are near and one moron doesn't want to cooperate for save his own life. Hell, you are holding him up by his jacket's sleeve.
The decision was clear.
Now Ben it's a hero. I forgive him for every fatal mistakes he did and I will remember him as a hero.
They always are and always will be close as long as enough people participate in the forum poll. It's basic statistics.
There are other reasons to let Ben go than that.
I liked Ben. He screwed up a lot but he was a good guy and I always tried to give him the benefit of the doubt. I had no desire to kill him or let him be killed. But I dropped him for one reason, and one reason only - because he wanted me to.
Dropping Ben was no different than giving the girl the gun all the way back in Episode 1. He wanted to die. He felt guilty for all the trouble he caused and wanted to die. More than that, he wanted to die as a hero, sacrificing himself to give the group a chance to get away. If he showed any sign of wanting to be saved, I would have pulled him up but he made it clear he didn't want that. In a zombie apocalypse, choosing how and when you go is a luxury most people don't get. Why should I have taken that away from him? I let that kid die as a hero, that does not make me like the people in Crawford.
EXACTLY this. A person has a right to decide whether they want to live or die, in my opinion, and Ben begged me to let him die. It wasn't a choice I made with any joy, but it was the choice Ben wanted. Ben wanted to atone for his mistakes, and he seemed to feel that was the best way to do it.
Faced with insurmountable odds, I really wonder how many people would keep soldiering on in the face of what could be a never-ending zombie apocalypse, and how many would just want to check out as soon as possible.
Ben was suicidal because of an overwhelming emotion, not because of careful consideration about the zombie apocalypse and a decision to escape it. He wasn't in his right mind to make the choice to die.
The girl who wanted the gun was going to turn into a zombie and was also suicidal. She wasn't in the right mind to make the choice either. Both needed to be calmed down and talk about their situation and choices, but there was no one trained in suicide prevention. Maybe Katjaa would still be alive if the group had anyone trained in suicide prevention.
However, Ben and the girl's situations were very different. Ben's suicidal impulse was a permanent tragedy for a temporary emotion. The girl was facing an incurable medical condition that was going to lead to more suffering for her (and those around her). So, after talking it over, death would probably be the right choice for her. She could go more at peace, though, instead of frightened and alone. For Ben? There was no reason to die, and someone should have stepped in and stopped the suicide.
Suicidal people aren't capable of making the choice to live or die. Use this as a chance to learn about suicide: http://www.suicide.org/suicide-is-not-a-choice.html.
You might learn something because of a game that could save someone's life.