You don't want Clem to lose her humanity? It's okay to lose a little of it for the zombie apocalypse. Or a lot of it. This is a nice and well thought out post though. This makes me want to find the meaning to every characters name and every symbolic object and thing in the episodes to try to predict future events. You said Kenny was the fire right? I don't think what I'm about to say is true, but I remember Carver telling Clem in the room with Alvin ab out watching herself, because she is close to the fire. Now I'm sure he was referring to himself, but just something to point out. Maybe this also has something to do with the Pizza, Ice Cream thing in Episode 5? Pizza is usually hot right? (Aka Fire = Kenny) Luke on the other hand would be light, and there's your Ice Cream possibly. I'm more pumped for Episode 5 than I am for Episode 4 at the moment.
Anyway I love how you came to symbolized the characters in such a way. Although Kenny is a good person, Sarita's dialouge gives the image of him being something more dark. Luke is I guess by his name the light.
Though I might add, its funny how him disappearing is like how light/hope can be dim in our view..not just in e3 but also in e4 ...am I the only one to be disappointed on how they are going to play this card again?
Anyway if they did wanted him to be the light that then he should have been more prominent at carver dieing moment. I feel more emotionally attached to Kenny at this time... ( sry off topic carry on)
I do agree that Clementine will probably have to choose between Kenny and Luke. I actually have no clue who I will pick because I genuinely like both of them... my gut reaction is probably Kenny, but it would depend on this situation. I do, however, prefer another theory someone else mentioned on here about the moth symbolizing Clementine's growth and development. This episode was all about Clementine coming to realize that she is a leader. I don't really think Clementine needs Kenny and Luke to lead her, I think at this point, they're all equals. A lot like the Kenny, Lilly, and Lee situation in season 1. You can pick and choose who to agree with, but in the end, lee ends up the one in charge. Clementine is beginning to choose for herself what is considered weak or strong, what is considered murder or a necessity to keep the group alive, etc.
I'd rather not choose either. While I don't agree with Kenny's destructive and reckless nature, I also don't agree with Luke's constant nature of waiting and taking things slowly. There needs to be a balance between taking action and buying time. Kenny and Luke are the extremes of both, and as we see in Episode 3, it's only when Luke and Kenny's ideas come together, a mix of their ideas, that things end up succeeding. If I did have to choose, I'd go with Luke, simply because I know how Kenny's attitude and goals will end up, since by now he's even worse than he was in Season 1 in terms of mental instability. I may not totally like or agree with Luke, but at least we've not been shown that his ideas always end up in disaster.
I think if I had to go with anyone, it'd probably be Luke (even though I don't trust him), in order to retain Clem's humanity. I would also want to help Kenny with him losing his, but I think he will become too unstable (I hope not). But after seeing what happened to Carver, I wouldn't want to be with Kenny (If Sarita dies, especially not).
calm down damn Clem. It looked like a butterfly to me when I played. I'm sorry if what I thought screwed up your day. Look I have nothing against you or anyone here so lets make that clear. It was just a misunderstanding geesh. I thought it was a butterfly. And second of all you have the computer version so you and the other file searching users knew it's a moth.
Jesus christ you need to stop spouting things that are not true. It looks exactly like a moth therefore it's a moth.
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calm down damn Clem. It looked like a butterfly to me when I played. I'm sorry if what I thought screwed up your day. Look I have nothing ag… moreainst you or anyone here so lets make that clear. It was just a misunderstanding geesh. I thought it was a butterfly. And second of all you have the computer version so you and the other file searching users knew it's a moth.
Well obviously it's not rare. I guess I was very sleepy when I was playing which made me think it was a butterfly. Go ahead why don't you just bash my head in with a salt lick like kenny did to larry for misunderstanding okay?
This is... beautiful. What an awesome interpretation. I would never have guessed this. Great job on this! If this is really the symbolic meaning TT was going for, man, that's just amazing writing. Damn.
I absolutely agree with your thoughts about Kenny and Luke as well, regarding their character flaws etc. These are exactly my thoughts as well. And since I love them both, going through that inevitable choice is going to be so hard.. because I know Luke is probably the best choice. But Kenny.. he's like a father to Clementine. There's just so much history - and in the latest episode, DAMN. Kenny was fucking awesome.
Anyway, really awesome post challenging us to think alot about TT's writing. Amazing!
It's just funny how everybody here, literally everybody, agree that it was a moth yet you still felt the need to point out this "error" which turned out to be your own.
No offence, but sometimes, think before you post.
Well obviously it's not rare. I guess I was very sleepy when I was playing which made me think it was a butterfly. Go ahead why don't you just bash my head in with a salt lick like kenny did to larry for misunderstanding okay?
This is a great post, and I agree with you. But on the side of Kenny in Episode 3... I find it weird, I was one of the people who disagreed with him more than agreed and somehow I had no objections towards his actions in Episode 3. Even though I knew they were quite brash.
At the end of the day though, I'm going to see how Luke and Kenny evolve from their actions. I'll take the route that best suits Clementine's chances of survival. If I can pick a way for her to retain her humanity I'll pick that one, no questions asked.
Well obviously it's not rare. I guess I was very sleepy when I was playing which made me think it was a butterfly. Go ahead why don't you just bash my head in with a salt lick like kenny did to larry for misunderstanding okay?
Yeah, the character's names do have a significance, I think. "Clementine" means "Merciful." She was very merciful in Season 1. In Season 2, … moreif you choose to stay with Kenny and watch him kill Carver, I feel like she's losing some of that mercy.
I do find it funny and ironic that one of the meanings for Kenny is "handsome" and in the preview for episode 4 he's asking Clem if he still looks pretty. XD
They played the whole affair with Carver as a mistake; likely a one-time event. She still loved her husband at the end. It does seem a bit tongue in cheek but circumstances don't always allow these characters to stay true to their names.
I can easily see a situation like when Carver captured the group in S2E2 when Kenny acts reckless again trying to be the hero and just making things worse, but this time it could be something that threatens the entire group.
Killing Kenny would've potentially saved Walter after all. Imagine if Walter was replaced with multiple people, it would tip the scales.
Where have you been all this time @Liayso? :D That is the best discussion I've ever seen after that ''Long Live The Legendary Shitbird Ben''. Just kidding :D Thank you so much for this awesome thread. When it comes to my decision;
I'd go with Luke. Not because I hate our ''Mustache Guardian'' People in this ZA keeps losing hope every second of the day. People like Lee, Omid, Pete, Alvin, Matthew, Walter and Luke is either dead or barely alive in this painful world. Kenny is losing it slowly. That Carver's death scene proves that. Who knows what the hell is he gonna do if he loses Sarita? (Determinant) When Luke says about Carver that he didn't likes nothing about that son of a Ben but that doesn't mean we can kill him. It's not our nature and decision to make a job that belongs to the God. And that's exactly what I missed most. Reminded me my Lee's philosophy of hope.
Well obviously it's not rare. I guess I was very sleepy when I was playing which made me think it was a butterfly. Go ahead why don't you just bash my head in with a salt lick like kenny did to larry for misunderstanding okay?
No, it's not all right to lose your humanity. Especially in the zombie apocalypse. If everyone lost their humanity then the world would be filled with a bunch of assholes who will end up killing each other and that would mean the end of the world in truth. It's important to hang onto as much of your humanity as you can.
I don't remember Carver mentioning fire, I'm going to have to go back and see. But if it's true, that's very interesting. It kind of foreshadows things. Thanks for catching that.
You don't want Clem to lose her humanity? It's okay to lose a little of it for the zombie apocalypse. Or a lot of it. This is a nice and wel… morel thought out post though. This makes me want to find the meaning to every characters name and every symbolic object and thing in the episodes to try to predict future events. You said Kenny was the fire right? I don't think what I'm about to say is true, but I remember Carver telling Clem in the room with Alvin ab out watching herself, because she is close to the fire. Now I'm sure he was referring to himself, but just something to point out. Maybe this also has something to do with the Pizza, Ice Cream thing in Episode 5? Pizza is usually hot right? (Aka Fire = Kenny) Luke on the other hand would be light, and there's your Ice Cream possibly. I'm more pumped for Episode 5 than I am for Episode 4 at the moment.
Kenny I never liked Luke after episode one when he left a little girl(clem) to die in a shed the reason he might get into trouble GTFO. I even like Nick more just find Luke very sneaky for some reason
Yeah, if you walk away from killing Carver, Sarita is all "That's not the Kenny I know... I thought I could save him." or something like that. :P Anyway, her line here is very telling and predicts darker things from Kenny.
I guess Luke always disappearing is supposed to represent how hard it is to hang onto that light/hope. I dunno. We really need to learn the circumstances of him disappearing again in episode 4.
And Luke was prominent at the Carver dying moment. He was the one most adamant about not brutally killing him.
Take my like, its 50 now :)
Anyway I love how you came to symbolized the characters in such a way. Although Kenny is a good person, Sa… morerita's dialouge gives the image of him being something more dark. Luke is I guess by his name the light.
Though I might add, its funny how him disappearing is like how light/hope can be dim in our view..not just in e3 but also in e4 ...am I the only one to be disappointed on how they are going to play this card again?
Anyway if they did wanted him to be the light that then he should have been more prominent at carver dieing moment. I feel more emotionally attached to Kenny at this time... ( sry off topic carry on)
Yes, the moth definitely represents Clem's growth and development. I suppose it's not so much on who Clem needs to lead her, more like whose influence do you want to shape the kind of person you want Clementine to become.
I do agree that Clementine will probably have to choose between Kenny and Luke. I actually have no clue who I will pick because I genuinely … morelike both of them... my gut reaction is probably Kenny, but it would depend on this situation. I do, however, prefer another theory someone else mentioned on here about the moth symbolizing Clementine's growth and development. This episode was all about Clementine coming to realize that she is a leader. I don't really think Clementine needs Kenny and Luke to lead her, I think at this point, they're all equals. A lot like the Kenny, Lilly, and Lee situation in season 1. You can pick and choose who to agree with, but in the end, lee ends up the one in charge. Clementine is beginning to choose for herself what is considered weak or strong, what is considered murder or a necessity to keep the group alive, etc.
Yes, exactly, that's why I think Luke and Kenny would make the perfect team! It's just that Kenny right now is heading down a dark path that makes them becoming a team really difficult.
I'd rather not choose either. While I don't agree with Kenny's destructive and reckless nature, I also don't agree with Luke's constant natu… morere of waiting and taking things slowly. There needs to be a balance between taking action and buying time. Kenny and Luke are the extremes of both, and as we see in Episode 3, it's only when Luke and Kenny's ideas come together, a mix of their ideas, that things end up succeeding. If I did have to choose, I'd go with Luke, simply because I know how Kenny's attitude and goals will end up, since by now he's even worse than he was in Season 1 in terms of mental instability. I may not totally like or agree with Luke, but at least we've not been shown that his ideas always end up in disaster.
If you lose your humanity, what makes you much more different then those you're fighting, or the zombies? You become the walking dead. It's not all right to lose your humanity.
You don't want Clem to lose her humanity? It's okay to lose a little of it for the zombie apocalypse. Or a lot of it. This is a nice and wel… morel thought out post though. This makes me want to find the meaning to every characters name and every symbolic object and thing in the episodes to try to predict future events. You said Kenny was the fire right? I don't think what I'm about to say is true, but I remember Carver telling Clem in the room with Alvin ab out watching herself, because she is close to the fire. Now I'm sure he was referring to himself, but just something to point out. Maybe this also has something to do with the Pizza, Ice Cream thing in Episode 5? Pizza is usually hot right? (Aka Fire = Kenny) Luke on the other hand would be light, and there's your Ice Cream possibly. I'm more pumped for Episode 5 than I am for Episode 4 at the moment.
Yeah, Telltale wouldn't have put that moth in the beginning of the episode for nothing. So I looked up it's symbolic meanings (I had already known about the name meanings) and I was like, "Wow, I think I know where TellTale is going with this." And it's going to hurt so much because I love Kenny.
Holy fuck!
This is... beautiful. What an awesome interpretation. I would never have guessed this. Great job on this! If this is really … morethe symbolic meaning TT was going for, man, that's just amazing writing. Damn.
I absolutely agree with your thoughts about Kenny and Luke as well, regarding their character flaws etc. These are exactly my thoughts as well. And since I love them both, going through that inevitable choice is going to be so hard.. because I know Luke is probably the best choice. But Kenny.. he's like a father to Clementine. There's just so much history - and in the latest episode, DAMN. Kenny was fucking awesome.
Anyway, really awesome post challenging us to think alot about TT's writing. Amazing!
We still have two more episodes, if we can, I want to help Kenny turn away from this dark path he's heading down and I want Luke to become stronger and more sure of himself. Luke's flaw is that he's hesitant. He has a lot of good ideas, he just needs more confidence in himself.
This is a great post, and I agree with you. But on the side of Kenny in Episode 3... I find it weird, I was one of the people who disagreed … morewith him more than agreed and somehow I had no objections towards his actions in Episode 3. Even though I knew they were quite brash.
At the end of the day though, I'm going to see how Luke and Kenny evolve from their actions. I'll take the route that best suits Clementine's chances of survival. If I can pick a way for her to retain her humanity I'll pick that one, no questions asked.
Interesting. I was always curious of that moment.
The pizza and ice cream.... Luke being the light.... Kenny being the fire....
f… moreire + pizza = Kenny
ice cream + light (since the colour of ice cream is usually neon) = Luke
And the idea how Luke is humanity, and Kenny is survival, oh god this definitely gonna be tough of a decision. You made it harder for me to choose.
GREAT THREAD BY THE WAY.
Thanks! :D I've actual been lurking around the forum, reading the discussions since Episode 2 came out. When episode 3 came out and came up with my moth speculations, I really wanted to see what other people thought about it. Then I saw that no one was talking about the moth, which is understandable, it was such a small short moment that got overshadowed by all the other crazy shit that happened this episode. So that's why I finally registered and started the discussion myself. And I gotta say, I'm having a blast!
We're always losing those type of people who have managed to hang onto their humanity and their goodness. It's really depressing. That's why I think it's important for Luke to make it because of all the characters he has the potential to be the type of survivor who can hang onto his humanity while still being strong.
Where have you been all this time @Liayso? :D That is the best discussion I've ever seen after that ''Long Live The Legendary Shitbird Ben''… more. Just kidding :D Thank you so much for this awesome thread. When it comes to my decision;
I'd go with Luke. Not because I hate our ''Mustache Guardian'' People in this ZA keeps losing hope every second of the day. People like Lee, Omid, Pete, Alvin, Matthew, Walter and Luke is either dead or barely alive in this painful world. Kenny is losing it slowly. That Carver's death scene proves that. Who knows what the hell is he gonna do if he loses Sarita? (Determinant) When Luke says about Carver that he didn't likes nothing about that son of a Ben but that doesn't mean we can kill him. It's not our nature and decision to make a job that belongs to the God. And that's exactly what I missed most. Reminded me my Lee's philosophy of hope.
He wasn't content about it. I think deep down he knew that Carver had to die in order for them to be safe, it's just that he didn't want it to be brutal.
That's a little unfair to Luke. You say you like Nick more, yet Nick was one of the people most adamant about Clem being put down/put in the shed. Luke defended Clem the best that he could, but he was outnumbered and also overruled by Carlos, who had the final say because he was the doctor.
Kenny I never liked Luke after episode one when he left a little girl(clem) to die in a shed the reason he might get into trouble GTFO. I even like Nick more just find Luke very sneaky for some reason
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It basically wants you to choose kenny over luke
Anyway I love how you came to symbolized the characters in such a way. Although Kenny is a good person, Sarita's dialouge gives the image of him being something more dark. Luke is I guess by his name the light.
Though I might add, its funny how him disappearing is like how light/hope can be dim in our view..not just in e3 but also in e4 ...am I the only one to be disappointed on how they are going to play this card again?
Anyway if they did wanted him to be the light that then he should have been more prominent at carver dieing moment. I feel more emotionally attached to Kenny at this time... ( sry off topic carry on)
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It's quite rare to see someone mistook a moth as a butterfly these days.
This is... beautiful. What an awesome interpretation. I would never have guessed this. Great job on this! If this is really the symbolic meaning TT was going for, man, that's just amazing writing. Damn.
I absolutely agree with your thoughts about Kenny and Luke as well, regarding their character flaws etc. These are exactly my thoughts as well. And since I love them both, going through that inevitable choice is going to be so hard.. because I know Luke is probably the best choice. But Kenny.. he's like a father to Clementine. There's just so much history - and in the latest episode, DAMN. Kenny was fucking awesome.
Anyway, really awesome post challenging us to think alot about TT's writing. Amazing!
No offence, but sometimes, think before you post.
At the end of the day though, I'm going to see how Luke and Kenny evolve from their actions. I'll take the route that best suits Clementine's chances of survival. If I can pick a way for her to retain her humanity I'll pick that one, no questions asked.
I won't bash your head with a salt-lick.
FAITHFUL WIFE?
XD I don't know why this is so funny. Man they picked those names pretty good.
Killing Kenny would've potentially saved Walter after all. Imagine if Walter was replaced with multiple people, it would tip the scales.
The pizza and ice cream.... Luke being the light.... Kenny being the fire....
fire + pizza = Kenny
ice cream + light (since the colour of ice cream is usually neon) = Luke
And the idea how Luke is humanity, and Kenny is survival, oh god this definitely gonna be tough of a decision. You made it harder for me to choose.
GREAT THREAD BY THE WAY.
I'd go with Luke. Not because I hate our ''Mustache Guardian'' People in this ZA keeps losing hope every second of the day. People like Lee, Omid, Pete, Alvin, Matthew, Walter and Luke is either dead or barely alive in this painful world. Kenny is losing it slowly. That Carver's death scene proves that. Who knows what the hell is he gonna do if he loses Sarita? (Determinant) When Luke says about Carver that he didn't likes nothing about that son of a Ben but that doesn't mean we can kill him. It's not our nature and decision to make a job that belongs to the God. And that's exactly what I missed most. Reminded me my Lee's philosophy of hope.
I don't remember Carver mentioning fire, I'm going to have to go back and see. But if it's true, that's very interesting. It kind of foreshadows things. Thanks for catching that.
Yeah, if you walk away from killing Carver, Sarita is all "That's not the Kenny I know... I thought I could save him." or something like that. :P Anyway, her line here is very telling and predicts darker things from Kenny.
I guess Luke always disappearing is supposed to represent how hard it is to hang onto that light/hope. I dunno. We really need to learn the circumstances of him disappearing again in episode 4.
And Luke was prominent at the Carver dying moment. He was the one most adamant about not brutally killing him.
We're always losing those type of people who have managed to hang onto their humanity and their goodness. It's really depressing. That's why I think it's important for Luke to make it because of all the characters he has the potential to be the type of survivor who can hang onto his humanity while still being strong.