Would Rebecca? think just Luke lol anyway on the bridge he was the one he put Clem in that situation
Definitely but think Kenny gets just as much hate as praise always mixed but that's just because people know his character more from s1 he had more time to develop shows users connect more with his character because known him longer
Pete and Luke saved her from the walkers when they first meet her.
Nick or Pete provide Clem cover when she escapes the shack/truck.
… more
Luke covers Clementine on the bridge when Nick shoots Matthew, shielding her in case he had missed.
Carlos shot the extra walkers at the ski lodge when Clem ran out of ammo in her gun.
Hell, Troy saved her in the recent episode from walkers too.
It's not just Kenny that's protecting/saving Clementine. It's everyone. Clem too. She's saved and protected them a bunch of times. Sometimes I think people give Kenny too much praise because when he saves people it's such a big dramatic moment. The other characters deserve praise too.
And thank you for debating with me. It's a lot of fun :D
I think Rebecca would. She's come a long way from their first meeting. And Luke may have put Clem in that situation, but he did his best to protect her, you know, when he wasn't falling through the damn bridge. lol. Also wanted to add, if Carver smacks Clem at the beginning of episode 3, Sarah yells at him, "Don't hit my friend!" Sure, it wasn't really helpful, but I was pleasantly surprised that she was capable of yelling at Carver for that.
Definitely agree with you about Kenny love/hate. It's built upon our feelings from season 1.
Would Rebecca? think just Luke lol anyway on the bridge he was the one he put Clem in that situation
Definitely but think Kenny gets ju… morest as much hate as praise always mixed but that's just because people know his character more from s1 he had more time to develop shows users connect more with his character because known him longer
I think Rebecca would. She's come a long way from their first meeting. And Luke may have put Clem in that situation, but he did his best to … moreprotect her, you know, when he wasn't falling through the damn bridge. lol. Also wanted to add, if Carver smacks Clem at the beginning of episode 3, Sarah yells at him, "Don't hit my friend!" Sure, it wasn't really helpful, but I was pleasantly surprised that she was capable of yelling at Carver for that.
Definitely agree with you about Kenny love/hate. It's built upon our feelings from season 1.
Yeah, the discrepancy in her character between episodes 1 & 2 was really jarring. I'm just gonna fanwank and blame hormones. XD
But definitely, the Rebecca in episode 3 would definitely protect Clem and the others.
Actually Luke's idea isn't as idiotic as you think. Tying Carver up with shot up kneecaps. In society if you get shot in the kneecaps, you would need surgery and you would be lucky if you can walk again. During a zombie apocalypse with no hospital or doctor (I miss Carlos :c), Carver would never be able to walk again. Also Carver is right near the entrance where the lurkers were infiltrating the compound. With two shot up kneecaps and tied up, there's no way Carver could have gotten away from the lurkers that are coming inside the camp and that would have given the group a head start rather than Kenny letting Carver talk for two minutes then taking an extra one to bash his face in. Also Carver's men mention that they don't have enough ammunition and there are thousands of lurkers so there as good as dead (Luke mentions that the hoard is going to wash over Carver's camp) and the upside is that you get to keep your morals. Win-win situation. Reminds me of the St. Johns.
About the Carver situation, yes, Luke was really dumb about letting Carver live. And I will give him hell for that because it was stupid. A… morend yes, Kenny stepped up and did what had to be done, but I think he did it more for himself than anything. If it was more about the group's safety, he would have just shot Carver in the head and be done with it. But he didn't. He shot Carver in the legs and then proceeded to bash in his face. Now, I understand why he would do that. I don't approve of it, but I understand.
I get what you're saying about how you have to have a bit of savagery to survive, but I think it's important to hang onto your moral code and humanity more than ever in the world of TWD. Surviving is good, but then as time goes on it just becomes surviving for surviving, and then, what's the point? In my opinion, it's harder to hang onto your humanity in situations like that. Out of all the characters, Luke has done that so th… [view original content]
Yeah, I dont get jt because he was on our side, and in some situations you can be completly overruled by your group! I was grateful Luke finally managed to help Pete convince them to help Clem, it was two against three. They opened the shed doors only because Luke and Pete wanted to help her and apologise and they convinced their people to do that.
When you understand why they did it and realise they still wanted to help you after Luke and Petes convincing, how can you still hate them?
This is exactly why I don't like it when people hate on Luke for the shed. If you have to hate someone for the shed incident, you should ha… morete Carlos, Rebecca and Nick.
But I don't hate them for the shed anymore, because I understood why they did it. I wish they hadn't handled the situation that way, but I understand and forgive them.
I like how you could explain yourself well, take my like for that!
In my opinion, as a Luke fan, he stuffed up this episode. Having 'gone on a hike' to follow the truck, probably running after it, for a couple of days and sleepless nights, he starved out. He did something rash for once, and got caught stealing food, putting their plan into jeopardy, leading up to the walkie talkie for Clementines group being discovered, which lead to Kenny losing sight in his eye.
One mistake by the poor guy did cause harm, and he admitted to that. He was willing to stay behind and let everyone recover before heading out, because if Kenny was unconscious then he wouldn't be able to come. In fact, it's development for him, so it's good. You can't really blame him for stealing, he must have been starving..
Kenny didn't come with me to try and find Clementine in season one. Luke came to find Clementine, even though he's only known her for a few weeks. He trusts her enough to find him the walkie talkie and he believes in her enough to talk to her first, he never leaves her out.
The beauty of this game is your Kenny relationship is different to mine, and for me, I think I have a better one with Luke than I do with Kenny
First comment! \o/
First of all, this post is amazing. I love these metaphors which you describe characters with! Kenny is a "fire born… more" for sure. And Luke... honestly, I`m still not sure how can describe him. But yes, he seems like a light guy. It`s really fantastic how you`ve built this chain starting with just a moth. You`re really smart, miss!
Seems like I`m in the minority here, but I`d choose Kenny. Yes, he`s very impulsive and sometimes he does something, and only then thinks about it. But doesn`t it... make him look like a real person? TTG`s games do not have good or bad characters - this is one of a lot of reasons why I love them. Some characters are worse, some characters are better, but there are no good or bad people. Everyone has their strengths and weaknesses, as well as Kenny. He had done a lot of things which I don`t appreciate (Larry`s murder, Carver`s torture, etc.). But all of this makes him clearer for me, than L… [view original content]
I'm usually annoyed by the five million "Kenny vs. Luke" threads people keep opening, but I like that you have some symbolism in yours. Although I would say that I don't consider Luke flawless - if he was, the choice would be too easy. Problems I could see Luke causing would stem from his implied difficulties with shooting a living person, for example, like someone threatening another person and him being hesitant to intervene even though he's holding a gun. Kenny, on the other hand, would attack the aggressive person immediately if they came too close to Clem. Both mindsets aren't ideal, but they're contrasts, and players will have preferences for one extreme or the other depending on their own values.
Like, I remember Nick Breckon saying in a Playing Dead interview that sometimes he likes to include choices where there's going to be a very one-sided mass result which makes it interesting to see that some people still chose the minority option, as well as choices where the percentages will be mostly 50:50. I think the ultimate choice between Kenny and Luke will be of the latter kind.
As for me, I'm more of a Luke kind of person, but it's mostly because I feel that Kenny and I wouldn't get along in real life at all; he completely shuts off other people's inputs whenever he's determined to do something and I'm more in favor of group players. Also, while he's not openly bigoted, his racist microaggressions are getting on my nerves.
I just woke up like an hour ago after a night with a lack of sleep. Take my like for now, and I'll try responding to you properly later when I'm a bit more coherent. :)
I'm usually annoyed by the five million "Kenny vs. Luke" threads people keep opening, but I like that you have some symbolism in yours. Alth… moreough I would say that I don't consider Luke flawless - if he was, the choice would be too easy. Problems I could see Luke causing would stem from his implied difficulties with shooting a living person, for example, like someone threatening another person and him being hesitant to intervene even though he's holding a gun. Kenny, on the other hand, would attack the aggressive person immediately if they came too close to Clem. Both mindsets aren't ideal, but they're contrasts, and players will have preferences for one extreme or the other depending on their own values.
Like, I remember Nick Breckon saying in a Playing Dead interview that sometimes he likes to include choices where there's going to be a very one-sided mass result which makes it interesting to see that some people still chose the minority… [view original content]
no doubt it's dedication,but before i pass judgement on Luke i'd like to know why he goes missing at times,and hear his back story what Carver didn't finish telling us.
My original post said that Kenny is light as well, he is fire and fire is likely to burn too.
Well Luke said back in Ep1 that his folks… more were gone, but the group is Luke's family now. And the man spent the last few days without food or rest trying to keep up with Carver just so that he could rescue them. If that's not loyalty and dedication, then I don't know what is.
All right, I'm back and no-longer sleep deprived. :)
Yes, I agree, both sides have their pros and cons, that's why deciding will be very difficult. And I do agree with you about Luke's hesitant nature being a detriment to survival. Fortunately, I think Luke can change whereas Kenny seems very set in his ways, which is why I too lean towards Luke.
I think I understand you not liking Kenny because of real life. I mean, I love him as a character in a story, but sometimes I feel like if I knew someone like him in real life, I wouldn't like him at all. Every other time he opens his mouth I'm like, "God dammit Kenny! Calm down and shut up!" He's very confrontational and that's good storywise, but in real life it would get annoying.
I'm usually annoyed by the five million "Kenny vs. Luke" threads people keep opening, but I like that you have some symbolism in yours. Alth… moreough I would say that I don't consider Luke flawless - if he was, the choice would be too easy. Problems I could see Luke causing would stem from his implied difficulties with shooting a living person, for example, like someone threatening another person and him being hesitant to intervene even though he's holding a gun. Kenny, on the other hand, would attack the aggressive person immediately if they came too close to Clem. Both mindsets aren't ideal, but they're contrasts, and players will have preferences for one extreme or the other depending on their own values.
Like, I remember Nick Breckon saying in a Playing Dead interview that sometimes he likes to include choices where there's going to be a very one-sided mass result which makes it interesting to see that some people still chose the minority… [view original content]
We don't know the full context for his supposed disappearance in Episode 4, so we can't really judge him for that yet. As for his disappearance at the end of episode 2, that was explained. He saw that he was outnumbered and overpowered, so he kept up with them as best he could in order to find an opening to free everyone. Of course it was all for nothing since he got caught anyway, but I appreciated the effort.
As for this backstory from Carver you keep mentioning, what do you mean? I don't recall Carver saying anything more than that Luke wasn't an effective leader and that the others shouldn't have followed him. Nothing that alludes to some dark past of Luke's. Do you mean that comment of Carver's that said he knew Luke would have run off sooner or later? Well, Carver was wrong about that because Luke didn't abandon the group.
no doubt it's dedication,but before i pass judgement on Luke i'd like to know why he goes missing at times,and hear his back story what Carver didn't finish telling us.
I suppose so, yes, but I still think just shooting him in the head would have been ideal instead of leaving it up to chance. That way you know for sure that he's dead. Kenny did waste time talking to Carver and then bashing his skull in, time that could have been used to get further away from the compound and possibly getting out of range of Tavia's and the others' shots. I do agree with you on that. Could have prevented Carlos' death and Sarita's bite.
Actually Luke's idea isn't as idiotic as you think. Tying Carver up with shot up kneecaps. In society if you get shot in the kneecaps, you w… moreould need surgery and you would be lucky if you can walk again. During a zombie apocalypse with no hospital or doctor (I miss Carlos :c), Carver would never be able to walk again. Also Carver is right near the entrance where the lurkers were infiltrating the compound. With two shot up kneecaps and tied up, there's no way Carver could have gotten away from the lurkers that are coming inside the camp and that would have given the group a head start rather than Kenny letting Carver talk for two minutes then taking an extra one to bash his face in. Also Carver's men mention that they don't have enough ammunition and there are thousands of lurkers so there as good as dead (Luke mentions that the hoard is going to wash over Carver's camp) and the upside is that you get to keep your morals. Win-win situation. Reminds me of the St. Johns.
I must say, this is the best theorie I have ever seen on this forum. I wish I could upvote you like a million times.
I think I would go with Luke because in my opinion he is the best option to maintain Clem's humanity and empathy.
Obviously the ideal choice would be to shoot him in the head, but Luke and Kenny are two sides of the extreme. Kenny goes overboard while Luke is insufficient. I would prefer the latter and shoot him in the head. Humane, quick, and efficient, but if I had to choose which one I preferred in dealing with Carver, I would choose Luke even though I don't think it's ideal nor do I agree with it 100%.
I suppose so, yes, but I still think just shooting him in the head would have been ideal instead of leaving it up to chance. That way you kn… moreow for sure that he's dead. Kenny did waste time talking to Carver and then bashing his skull in, time that could have been used to get further away from the compound and possibly getting out of range of Tavia's and the others' shots. I do agree with you on that. Could have prevented Carlos' death and Sarita's bite.
I love how EVERY single discussion that touches on Luke and Kenny always ends in a Luke VS Kenny conversation. I hope Telltale see how fired up we get about it XD
Great post and research about the symbolism! I never would have made that association of the month with Kenny/Luke, and it makes a lot of sense.
I really like your character analysis of Kenny and Luke. Although I don't think that Kenny's path will necessarily get you killed, or Luke's path will necessarily keep you safe. I think both paths have their pros and cons, and regardless of your choice, you will have to make some hefty sacrifices. That's what will make the Kenny/Luke choice so difficult (if it does happen).
Awesome post. I would go with Luke because he seems like the least destructive choice. Also, looking back through videos of the episodes, I'm noticing that Luke has an INCREDIBLE and very useful ability to keep a level head in a bad situation. That guy was cool as a cucumber after falling through the bridge and he kept reassuring Clem that they'd figure something out and not to panic. Plus, when Nick and Matthew were going at it, Luke's first instinct was to push Clem down and put himself over her to protect her. Aka, he instinctively put himself in a position to take a bullet for Clementine. Ever since then I don't think that Luke would hesitate in protecting Clem just like Kenny proved that he wouldn't.
Kenny has been going down that destructive path since the first season and it's cool to see it continued. If I had my way, I wouldn't leave either of them. As much as I dislike Kenny, though, I'd feel terrible not going with him. I get the feeling Clem is going to be all he's got later in this season, though it could easily be the same with Luke if the others of the cabin group are killed. I just want everyone to stay together! I don't want to leave Luke or Kenny but if Clem had no history with Kenny, I would have her go with Luke no questions asked.
I just had a thought when I was watching a Lets Play of this episode.
Carver's line: 'Sheeps to the slaughter. No Shepard to guide you' really stuck with me. Isn't Kenny and Luke the Shepard, i.e sources of light for the moth to follow?
If this is true, this could be clever foreshadowing that the moth, Clem, needs the Shepard. She will have to follow a source of light, both dangerous in their own way, to avoid slaughter? Maybe this means we will have the Luke vs Kenny decision?
I just had a thought when I was watching a Lets Play of this episode.
Carver's line: 'Sheeps to the slaughter. No Shepard to guide you… more' really stuck with me. Isn't Kenny and Luke the Shepard, i.e sources of light for the moth to follow?
If this is true, this could be clever foreshadowing that the moth, Clem, needs the Shepard. She will have to follow a source of light, both dangerous in their own way, to avoid slaughter? Maybe this means we will have the Luke vs Kenny decision?
I love how EVERY single discussion that touches on Luke and Kenny always ends in a Luke VS Kenny conversation. I hope Telltale see how fired up we get about it XD
Yes, that's one of the many reasons I love Luke. He remains calm during tense situations. He's got a good head on his shoulders. :) I liked that moment on the bridge too, where he shielded Clem. Luke does have a protective nature and has proven that he'll go to great lengths to protect the people he cares about, which is why I scratch my head when people say they don't trust Luke.
Episode 3 was such a big turning point for Kenny's character. Before, you can rationalize the reasoning for all the things he did back in Season 1, but this time it's different. It's so much darker. It has me both excited and very worried at the same time. Excited because it's going to be a great storyline, but worried because I love Kenny and I don't want to watch him go down that destructive path.
Awesome post. I would go with Luke because he seems like the least destructive choice. Also, looking back through videos of the episodes, I'… morem noticing that Luke has an INCREDIBLE and very useful ability to keep a level head in a bad situation. That guy was cool as a cucumber after falling through the bridge and he kept reassuring Clem that they'd figure something out and not to panic. Plus, when Nick and Matthew were going at it, Luke's first instinct was to push Clem down and put himself over her to protect her. Aka, he instinctively put himself in a position to take a bullet for Clementine. Ever since then I don't think that Luke would hesitate in protecting Clem just like Kenny proved that he wouldn't.
Kenny has been going down that destructive path since the first season and it's cool to see it continued. If I had my way, I wouldn't leave either of them. As much as I dislike Kenny, though, I'd feel terrible not going with him. I get … [view original content]
I can see both Luke and Kenny as shepherds and Clementine as a "Shepherd in training."
There was also another line during Carver's speech over the PA where he says that the community must become a light in the darkness, a beacon of hope. Thought that was interesting in relation to my original post.
But I think the most foreshadowy line of all this episode comes from Bonnie when she's telling Clementine about when she asked Carver about Reggie's death and how cold and matter-of-fact he was about it. I don't remember the exact wording but it went, "You realize that sometimes the person you thought you knew, was never there." She says this about Carver, but I'm a little worried that this line can be applied to Clementine and Kenny in the future, since Kenny is the person that Clementine knows the best and it's obvious that he's changing and becoming a different person.
I just had a thought when I was watching a Lets Play of this episode.
Carver's line: 'Sheeps to the slaughter. No Shepard to guide you… more' really stuck with me. Isn't Kenny and Luke the Shepard, i.e sources of light for the moth to follow?
If this is true, this could be clever foreshadowing that the moth, Clem, needs the Shepard. She will have to follow a source of light, both dangerous in their own way, to avoid slaughter? Maybe this means we will have the Luke vs Kenny decision?
Its seems Telltale loves so much foreshadowing stuff.
But I don't think Kenny is revealing his true nature just like Carver to Bonnie.Carver deceived everyone by telling them he was a good guy and that Bonnie was just putting excuses that Carver means well.And suddenly his true nature arise when he admit coldly Reggie's murder and when he beats Kenny.
Kenny IS changing I gotta admit that but I think that Kenny means well and we all know his true nature since day 1.He is changing into a different person but not Carver.I think Kenny's action were justified by killing Carver gruesomely
Carver really does have some foreshadowy lines.
I can see both Luke and Kenny as shepherds and Clementine as a "Shepherd in training."
… more
There was also another line during Carver's speech over the PA where he says that the community must become a light in the darkness, a beacon of hope. Thought that was interesting in relation to my original post.
But I think the most foreshadowy line of all this episode comes from Bonnie when she's telling Clementine about when she asked Carver about Reggie's death and how cold and matter-of-fact he was about it. I don't remember the exact wording but it went, "You realize that sometimes the person you thought you knew, was never there." She says this about Carver, but I'm a little worried that this line can be applied to Clementine and Kenny in the future, since Kenny is the person that Clementine knows the best and it's obvious that he's changing and becoming a different person.
Comments
Definitely but think Kenny gets just as much hate as praise always mixed but that's just because people know his character more from s1 he had more time to develop shows users connect more with his character because known him longer
Definitely agree with you about Kenny love/hate. It's built upon our feelings from season 1.
But definitely, the Rebecca in episode 3 would definitely protect Clem and the others.
When you understand why they did it and realise they still wanted to help you after Luke and Petes convincing, how can you still hate them?
In my opinion, as a Luke fan, he stuffed up this episode. Having 'gone on a hike' to follow the truck, probably running after it, for a couple of days and sleepless nights, he starved out. He did something rash for once, and got caught stealing food, putting their plan into jeopardy, leading up to the walkie talkie for Clementines group being discovered, which lead to Kenny losing sight in his eye.
One mistake by the poor guy did cause harm, and he admitted to that. He was willing to stay behind and let everyone recover before heading out, because if Kenny was unconscious then he wouldn't be able to come. In fact, it's development for him, so it's good. You can't really blame him for stealing, he must have been starving..
Kenny didn't come with me to try and find Clementine in season one. Luke came to find Clementine, even though he's only known her for a few weeks. He trusts her enough to find him the walkie talkie and he believes in her enough to talk to her first, he never leaves her out.
The beauty of this game is your Kenny relationship is different to mine, and for me, I think I have a better one with Luke than I do with Kenny
Like, I remember Nick Breckon saying in a Playing Dead interview that sometimes he likes to include choices where there's going to be a very one-sided mass result which makes it interesting to see that some people still chose the minority option, as well as choices where the percentages will be mostly 50:50. I think the ultimate choice between Kenny and Luke will be of the latter kind.
As for me, I'm more of a Luke kind of person, but it's mostly because I feel that Kenny and I wouldn't get along in real life at all; he completely shuts off other people's inputs whenever he's determined to do something and I'm more in favor of group players. Also, while he's not openly bigoted, his racist microaggressions are getting on my nerves.
Yes, I agree, both sides have their pros and cons, that's why deciding will be very difficult. And I do agree with you about Luke's hesitant nature being a detriment to survival. Fortunately, I think Luke can change whereas Kenny seems very set in his ways, which is why I too lean towards Luke.
I think I understand you not liking Kenny because of real life. I mean, I love him as a character in a story, but sometimes I feel like if I knew someone like him in real life, I wouldn't like him at all. Every other time he opens his mouth I'm like, "God dammit Kenny! Calm down and shut up!" He's very confrontational and that's good storywise, but in real life it would get annoying.
As for this backstory from Carver you keep mentioning, what do you mean? I don't recall Carver saying anything more than that Luke wasn't an effective leader and that the others shouldn't have followed him. Nothing that alludes to some dark past of Luke's. Do you mean that comment of Carver's that said he knew Luke would have run off sooner or later? Well, Carver was wrong about that because Luke didn't abandon the group.
I have to agree that I'd choose Luke without regretting it even a bit
I think I would go with Luke because in my opinion he is the best option to maintain Clem's humanity and empathy.
I really like your character analysis of Kenny and Luke. Although I don't think that Kenny's path will necessarily get you killed, or Luke's path will necessarily keep you safe. I think both paths have their pros and cons, and regardless of your choice, you will have to make some hefty sacrifices. That's what will make the Kenny/Luke choice so difficult (if it does happen).
Kenny has been going down that destructive path since the first season and it's cool to see it continued. If I had my way, I wouldn't leave either of them. As much as I dislike Kenny, though, I'd feel terrible not going with him. I get the feeling Clem is going to be all he's got later in this season, though it could easily be the same with Luke if the others of the cabin group are killed. I just want everyone to stay together! I don't want to leave Luke or Kenny but if Clem had no history with Kenny, I would have her go with Luke no questions asked.
Carver's line: 'Sheeps to the slaughter. No Shepard to guide you' really stuck with me. Isn't Kenny and Luke the Shepard, i.e sources of light for the moth to follow?
If this is true, this could be clever foreshadowing that the moth, Clem, needs the Shepard. She will have to follow a source of light, both dangerous in their own way, to avoid slaughter? Maybe this means we will have the Luke vs Kenny decision?
Episode 3 was such a big turning point for Kenny's character. Before, you can rationalize the reasoning for all the things he did back in Season 1, but this time it's different. It's so much darker. It has me both excited and very worried at the same time. Excited because it's going to be a great storyline, but worried because I love Kenny and I don't want to watch him go down that destructive path.
I can see both Luke and Kenny as shepherds and Clementine as a "Shepherd in training."
There was also another line during Carver's speech over the PA where he says that the community must become a light in the darkness, a beacon of hope. Thought that was interesting in relation to my original post.
But I think the most foreshadowy line of all this episode comes from Bonnie when she's telling Clementine about when she asked Carver about Reggie's death and how cold and matter-of-fact he was about it. I don't remember the exact wording but it went, "You realize that sometimes the person you thought you knew, was never there." She says this about Carver, but I'm a little worried that this line can be applied to Clementine and Kenny in the future, since Kenny is the person that Clementine knows the best and it's obvious that he's changing and becoming a different person.
But I don't think Kenny is revealing his true nature just like Carver to Bonnie.Carver deceived everyone by telling them he was a good guy and that Bonnie was just putting excuses that Carver means well.And suddenly his true nature arise when he admit coldly Reggie's murder and when he beats Kenny.
Kenny IS changing I gotta admit that but I think that Kenny means well and we all know his true nature since day 1.He is changing into a different person but not Carver.I think Kenny's action were justified by killing Carver gruesomely