You sir are awesome. +Respect .I don't think anyone can think as smart as you.
As for the choice to choose either Kenny or Luke is hard.I think I am going to choose Luke. *GASP*
He wasn't content about it. I think deep down he knew that Carver had to die in order for them to be safe, it's just that he didn't want it to be brutal.
That's a little unfair to Luke. You say you like Nick more, yet Nick was one of the people most adamant about Clem being put down/put in the… more shed. Luke defended Clem the best that he could, but he was outnumbered and also overruled by Carlos, who had the final say because he was the doctor.
Great post. Also pause menus show important parts of the episode. Ep1's menu shows the cabin, Ep2 shows the bridge and ep3's menu shows the moth. So yeah this moth seems pretty important i guess. It's like even if we forget about the moth in the beginning because of how small of an interaction it was they still want to remind us of the moth everytime you go to the menu.
Interesting. I was always curious of that moment.
The pizza and ice cream.... Luke being the light.... Kenny being the fire....
f… moreire + pizza = Kenny
ice cream + light (since the colour of ice cream is usually neon) = Luke
And the idea how Luke is humanity, and Kenny is survival, oh god this definitely gonna be tough of a decision. You made it harder for me to choose.
GREAT THREAD BY THE WAY.
First of all, this post is amazing. I love these metaphors which you describe characters with! Kenny is a "fire born" for sure. And Luke... honestly, I`m still not sure how can describe him. But yes, he seems like a light guy. It`s really fantastic how you`ve built this chain starting with just a moth. You`re really smart, miss!
Seems like I`m in the minority here, but I`d choose Kenny. Yes, he`s very impulsive and sometimes he does something, and only then thinks about it. But doesn`t it... make him look like a real person? TTG`s games do not have good or bad characters - this is one of a lot of reasons why I love them. Some characters are worse, some characters are better, but there are no good or bad people. Everyone has their strengths and weaknesses, as well as Kenny. He had done a lot of things which I don`t appreciate (Larry`s murder, Carver`s torture, etc.). But all of this makes him clearer for me, than Luke. No, I don`t say that Luke is bad. He is nice and friendly. And I`d say that he is too good - remember my words about TTG`s characters? I like Luke. I`m just not sure if I trust him. We`ve never seen him doing something we won`t like and it really bothers me. I always wait him to do something wrong and I`m feeling pretty nervous.
And also, I`ve been a friend with Ken since 1x01. We`ve been together through many things, both good and bad, I have a lot of memories about Lee and Kenny. When he died, I was really sad. And when Clementine met Kenny, being safe and sound, I had... tears of joy. For the first time in my life. I had an incredible feeling like I`ve met my good old friend, not just a videogame character.
Honestly, it`s a really hard choice. I would like to choose both - make a little team or something like this. Losing a friend is always bad, especially in a zombie apocalypse when you need somebody to stand with you side by side.
But I`d choose Kenny. Because I don`t wanna leave my dearest friend behind.
P.S That`s only my opinion, I hope I didn`t offend Luke fans.
He didn't want to kill him. Not only does he hesitate when Rebecca says to shoot him but he'll jump at the chance to spare him if Clem suggests tying him up. If they wanted to get across that it was just about brutality he'd have advocated shooting him in the head or something.
He wasn't content about it. I think deep down he knew that Carver had to die in order for them to be safe, it's just that he didn't want it to be brutal.
Just a quick question. For Kenny being so rash and being on a path of destruction, how has he survived this long? Maybe at times his actions seem rash, but they usually work. He is a quick thinker, and he gets things done. The only time where he has truly made a bad decision is when he tried to get in a shootout with Carver back at the Ski Lodge while Carver had hostages at his disposal. He was also being a bit rash at the start of last episode when he wanted the group to attack Carver and his men after getting out of the truck, but I seriously wonder if it could have worked if everyone had removed their bindings and were ready to attack as soon as the door opened. His concerns about being caged up in a "prison" were very legitimate. Heck, if not for the walker herd (which no one in the group knew about at this point) who knows if the group would have even been able to escape the compound.
I hate when people bring up the shed. Lemme put it like this:
Lets pretend our season one gang were in the cabin, and Lee and Clem find a kid She was bit by a dog, but you only have her word to go on. Would you still risk the trust of everyone else to get her supplies? Do you trust people in a ZA within ten minutes of knowing them?
Kenny I never liked Luke after episode one when he left a little girl(clem) to die in a shed the reason he might get into trouble GTFO. I even like Nick more just find Luke very sneaky for some reason
Yeah, I thought that was ironic too, but she really did love Alvin, so I guess sorta not. The biblical story of Rebecca, where the name's popularity originates from, is about a faithful wife. She gives birth at one point to twins.
I forgot to mention that her name also means kindness. Alvin's name means "friend" or "noble friend"
Luke is a good character; I'll give him that. But, I would disagree that Luke is the best choice. Kenny isn't worst decision,although, I feel Luke represents humanity and structure, he represents how people they were like before. When we thought more of each other, and lived by a certain moral code and structure.But, they don't anymore. In a lot of ways Luke is the weaker character. Just look at the Carver case, Luke would have tied him up. And feel free to disagree, but based on carver's past actions, he would have just come back after the group, and that would have been a major threat. Luke knew that,but he still couldn't shoot the gun. Kenny could, and I don't understand why he did it, because he realized Carver was a threat or to protect Clem. Regardless, Kenny could make the harsh choice that resulted in better care of the groups safety not Luke.Yes, Kenny is more brash, can be mean, but he's also loyal, like taking the beating for Clem(no one else stepped up), and has more experience with the world.Also, I wouldn't give Luke all the credit.You have to admit he's a little flaky, first, he wanted to get out,and finally when they could, he wanted to stay again and rest up. That's good and all, but Carver would have increased security ten fold after he found Luke, what's their odds of getting out of that? The group got lucky Carver had to leave.Nick also mentioned in the past how some of Luke's plans didn't exactly work out. Plus, he was more than able to leave members behind that weren't strong enough,not just Kenny. That leaves a real issue with me. Either way, I feel Luke represents the type of people they use to be,the type of world it use to be, Kenny represents what the world has become. I don't plan on letting Clem inherit all his traits, but it would be impossible to survive the world its become by not adopting some. I think the perfect example is the story Lord of the Flies, the good characters who represented good and society didn't survive while those who represented savagery did.Although, Ralph is chalked up as the hero, he didn't survive because he represent 'light' he survived because he was capable of being savage, he had the good and bad in him. Remaining good is a great thing, but sticking to a moral code doesn't equal survival certainly not in the world its become.
I hate when people bring up the shed. Lemme put it like this:
Lets pretend our season one gang were in the cabin, and Lee and Clem fin… mored a kid She was bit by a dog, but you only have her word to go on. Would you still risk the trust of everyone else to get her supplies? Do you trust people in a ZA within ten minutes of knowing them?
I also had a similar mindset in regards to not backing Kenny up. In my first play-through of season one, I didn't back Kenny up with the Larry salt-lick fiasco, and he told Lee something along the lines of "you left me alone in a tough situation". This was a hard situation, and I didn't want Kenny to feel like he had to bear it solo. That was my take anyway.
Symbolism is nice but ask yourself this. Whose plan ultimately got the group/Clem out of the "prison," Kenny or Luke? One guys plan failed a… mores he was captured and utimately caused others (mainly Kenny) harm. The other guys plan saved the group. Were their casualties? Of course. Its The Walking Dead. But ultimately Kenny's plan paid off. If Luke would've had his way, the group would still be locked up with Carver ruling over them with his merciless ways.
Also s far as Carver goes, if Kenny wouldn't have been there, Luke probably doesn't have the guts to kill him and whose to say Carver wouldn't eventually hunt the group down again with a not so "forgiving mindset" this time?
Alot of times I questioned backing Kenny as Lee. I won't make that same mistake as Clem.
i like this post BUT i think Luke is the light and if you go too close to the light it will get you burned,so i keep him at an arms length with Clem,Kenny we know has had a family,would do anything for them,couldn't handle there deaths,Luke has no family of his own that we know of and we will never know what Carver meant by his comment regarding Luke,Kenny for me always before anyone!
The first two episodes featured ravens, animals that are normally associated with death. But part 3 began with the image of a moth, a type of insect usually meant to represent metamorphosis/rebirth.
Yeah, I know Kenny would risk his life to save Clem, but who's to say that Luke wouldn't either? Who's to say any of the group wouldn't risk their lives to save another of the group?
Great post. Also pause menus show important parts of the episode. Ep1's menu shows the cabin, Ep2 shows the bridge and ep3's menu shows the … moremoth. So yeah this moth seems pretty important i guess. It's like even if we forget about the moth in the beginning because of how small of an interaction it was they still want to remind us of the moth everytime you go to the menu.
The first two episodes featured ravens, animals that are normally associated with death. But part 3 began with the image of a moth, a type of insect usually meant to represent metamorphosis/rebirth.
Take that as you will.
The first two episodes featured ravens, animals that are normally associated with death. But part 3 began with the image of a moth, a type of insect usually meant to represent metamorphosis/rebirth.
Take that as you will.
First comment! \o/
First of all, this post is amazing. I love these metaphors which you describe characters with! Kenny is a "fire born… more" for sure. And Luke... honestly, I`m still not sure how can describe him. But yes, he seems like a light guy. It`s really fantastic how you`ve built this chain starting with just a moth. You`re really smart, miss!
Seems like I`m in the minority here, but I`d choose Kenny. Yes, he`s very impulsive and sometimes he does something, and only then thinks about it. But doesn`t it... make him look like a real person? TTG`s games do not have good or bad characters - this is one of a lot of reasons why I love them. Some characters are worse, some characters are better, but there are no good or bad people. Everyone has their strengths and weaknesses, as well as Kenny. He had done a lot of things which I don`t appreciate (Larry`s murder, Carver`s torture, etc.). But all of this makes him clearer for me, than L… [view original content]
He got lucky? Nah, just kidding! I will give you that. Kenny has survived a very long time being the person that he is. I just don't think his is the only way of surviving and living in the world.
Just a quick question. For Kenny being so rash and being on a path of destruction, how has he survived this long? Maybe at times his actions… more seem rash, but they usually work. He is a quick thinker, and he gets things done. The only time where he has truly made a bad decision is when he tried to get in a shootout with Carver back at the Ski Lodge while Carver had hostages at his disposal. He was also being a bit rash at the start of last episode when he wanted the group to attack Carver and his men after getting out of the truck, but I seriously wonder if it could have worked if everyone had removed their bindings and were ready to attack as soon as the door opened. His concerns about being caged up in a "prison" were very legitimate. Heck, if not for the walker herd (which no one in the group knew about at this point) who knows if the group would have even been able to escape the compound.
I judge people on their actions not their words it's easy to say that of course they could but would they when push comes to shove that's the question Kenny did with Ben and Luke failed with Clem she would be dead now if didn't leave that shed
All this debate aside for a minute lol just want to compliment you on the unique, innovative and genius thread a perfect combination just love it with the moth and the symbolic meanings just so beautiful :)
Yeah, I know Kenny would risk his life to save Clem, but who's to say that Luke wouldn't either? Who's to say any of the group wouldn't risk their lives to save another of the group?
About the Carver situation, yes, Luke was really dumb about letting Carver live. And I will give him hell for that because it was stupid. And yes, Kenny stepped up and did what had to be done, but I think he did it more for himself than anything. If it was more about the group's safety, he would have just shot Carver in the head and be done with it. But he didn't. He shot Carver in the legs and then proceeded to bash in his face. Now, I understand why he would do that. I don't approve of it, but I understand.
I get what you're saying about how you have to have a bit of savagery to survive, but I think it's important to hang onto your moral code and humanity more than ever in the world of TWD. Surviving is good, but then as time goes on it just becomes surviving for surviving, and then, what's the point? In my opinion, it's harder to hang onto your humanity in situations like that. Out of all the characters, Luke has done that so that makes him strong in my eyes. Call me naïve, but I think it's possible to survive and hang onto your humanity. We need more people like Luke in order to rebuild the world to something close to what it used to be.
Luke is a good character; I'll give him that. But, I would disagree that Luke is the best choice. Kenny isn't worst decision,although, I fee… morel Luke represents humanity and structure, he represents how people they were like before. When we thought more of each other, and lived by a certain moral code and structure.But, they don't anymore. In a lot of ways Luke is the weaker character. Just look at the Carver case, Luke would have tied him up. And feel free to disagree, but based on carver's past actions, he would have just come back after the group, and that would have been a major threat. Luke knew that,but he still couldn't shoot the gun. Kenny could, and I don't understand why he did it, because he realized Carver was a threat or to protect Clem. Regardless, Kenny could make the harsh choice that resulted in better care of the groups safety not Luke.Yes, Kenny is more brash, can be mean, but he's also loyal, like taking the beating for Clem(… [view original content]
My original post said that Kenny is light as well, he is fire and fire is likely to burn too.
Well Luke said back in Ep1 that his folks were gone, but the group is Luke's family now. And the man spent the last few days without food or rest trying to keep up with Carver just so that he could rescue them. If that's not loyalty and dedication, then I don't know what is.
i like this post BUT i think Luke is the light and if you go too close to the light it will get you burned,so i keep him at an arms length w… moreith Clem,Kenny we know has had a family,would do anything for them,couldn't handle there deaths,Luke has no family of his own that we know of and we will never know what Carver meant by his comment regarding Luke,Kenny for me always before anyone!
That's very interesting. So the first two episodes are about the "death" of Season 1 Clementine, because you have to admit, she has changed a lot. And starting with Episode 3 and onwards, it will be about how the current Clementine transforming. Nice one, didn't realize that about the ravens.
The first two episodes featured ravens, animals that are normally associated with death. But part 3 began with the image of a moth, a type of insect usually meant to represent metamorphosis/rebirth.
Take that as you will.
But having a potential bite victim which may ultimately put your own group in trouble? For all the cabin group knew, Clem could have been another Duck! I would probably make that decision as Lee, but Id do the shed thing if I had my family with me.
Lets not forget if you listen to the whole kitchen conversation in 201 Luke pushed the group to fix her arm and apologise, and they agreed when they heard she could die!
Pete and Luke saved her from the walkers when they first meet her.
Nick or Pete provide Clem cover when she escapes the shack/truck.
Luke covers Clementine on the bridge when Nick shoots Matthew, shielding her in case he had missed.
Carlos shot the extra walkers at the ski lodge when Clem ran out of ammo in her gun.
Hell, Troy saved her in the recent episode from walkers too.
It's not just Kenny that's protecting/saving Clementine. It's everyone. Clem too. She's saved and protected them a bunch of times. Sometimes I think people give Kenny too much praise because when he saves people it's such a big dramatic moment. The other characters deserve praise too.
And thank you for debating with me. It's a lot of fun :D
I judge people on their actions not their words it's easy to say that of course they could but would they when push comes to shove that's th… moree question Kenny did with Ben and Luke failed with Clem she would be dead now if didn't leave that shed
All this debate aside for a minute lol just want to compliment you on the unique, innovative and genius thread a perfect combination just love it with the moth and the symbolic meanings just so beautiful :)
This is exactly why I don't like it when people hate on Luke for the shed. If you have to hate someone for the shed incident, you should hate Carlos, Rebecca and Nick.
But I don't hate them for the shed anymore, because I understood why they did it. I wish they hadn't handled the situation that way, but I understand and forgive them.
But having a potential bite victim which may ultimately put your own group in trouble? For all the cabin group knew, Clem could have been an… moreother Duck! I would probably make that decision as Lee, but Id do the shed thing if I had my family with me.
Lets not forget if you listen to the whole kitchen conversation in 201 Luke pushed the group to fix her arm and apologise, and they agreed when they heard she could die!
Comments
As for the choice to choose either Kenny or Luke is hard.I think I am going to choose Luke. *GASP*
First of all, this post is amazing. I love these metaphors which you describe characters with! Kenny is a "fire born" for sure. And Luke... honestly, I`m still not sure how can describe him. But yes, he seems like a light guy. It`s really fantastic how you`ve built this chain starting with just a moth. You`re really smart, miss!
Seems like I`m in the minority here, but I`d choose Kenny. Yes, he`s very impulsive and sometimes he does something, and only then thinks about it. But doesn`t it... make him look like a real person? TTG`s games do not have good or bad characters - this is one of a lot of reasons why I love them. Some characters are worse, some characters are better, but there are no good or bad people. Everyone has their strengths and weaknesses, as well as Kenny. He had done a lot of things which I don`t appreciate (Larry`s murder, Carver`s torture, etc.). But all of this makes him clearer for me, than Luke. No, I don`t say that Luke is bad. He is nice and friendly. And I`d say that he is too good - remember my words about TTG`s characters? I like Luke. I`m just not sure if I trust him. We`ve never seen him doing something we won`t like and it really bothers me. I always wait him to do something wrong and I`m feeling pretty nervous.
And also, I`ve been a friend with Ken since 1x01. We`ve been together through many things, both good and bad, I have a lot of memories about Lee and Kenny. When he died, I was really sad. And when Clementine met Kenny, being safe and sound, I had... tears of joy. For the first time in my life. I had an incredible feeling like I`ve met my good old friend, not just a videogame character.
Honestly, it`s a really hard choice. I would like to choose both - make a little team or something like this. Losing a friend is always bad, especially in a zombie apocalypse when you need somebody to stand with you side by side.
But I`d choose Kenny. Because I don`t wanna leave my dearest friend behind.
P.S That`s only my opinion, I hope I didn`t offend Luke fans.
Lets pretend our season one gang were in the cabin, and Lee and Clem find a kid She was bit by a dog, but you only have her word to go on. Would you still risk the trust of everyone else to get her supplies? Do you trust people in a ZA within ten minutes of knowing them?
I forgot to mention that her name also means kindness. Alvin's name means "friend" or "noble friend"
Take that as you will.
im just wondering what the bunnies mean..
I guess when I say "good" I don't mean in the "good vs. evil" sense. I mean in the "moral and humanity" kind of connotation. If that makes any sense.
And no, don't worry about offending Luke fans. I asked for your opinion and you gave it with valid reasoning without being mean. I appreciate it.
All this debate aside for a minute lol just want to compliment you on the unique, innovative and genius thread a perfect combination just love it with the moth and the symbolic meanings just so beautiful :)
I get what you're saying about how you have to have a bit of savagery to survive, but I think it's important to hang onto your moral code and humanity more than ever in the world of TWD. Surviving is good, but then as time goes on it just becomes surviving for surviving, and then, what's the point? In my opinion, it's harder to hang onto your humanity in situations like that. Out of all the characters, Luke has done that so that makes him strong in my eyes. Call me naïve, but I think it's possible to survive and hang onto your humanity. We need more people like Luke in order to rebuild the world to something close to what it used to be.
Well Luke said back in Ep1 that his folks were gone, but the group is Luke's family now. And the man spent the last few days without food or rest trying to keep up with Carver just so that he could rescue them. If that's not loyalty and dedication, then I don't know what is.
Lets not forget if you listen to the whole kitchen conversation in 201 Luke pushed the group to fix her arm and apologise, and they agreed when they heard she could die!
Nick or Pete provide Clem cover when she escapes the shack/truck.
Luke covers Clementine on the bridge when Nick shoots Matthew, shielding her in case he had missed.
Carlos shot the extra walkers at the ski lodge when Clem ran out of ammo in her gun.
Hell, Troy saved her in the recent episode from walkers too.
It's not just Kenny that's protecting/saving Clementine. It's everyone. Clem too. She's saved and protected them a bunch of times. Sometimes I think people give Kenny too much praise because when he saves people it's such a big dramatic moment. The other characters deserve praise too.
And thank you for debating with me. It's a lot of fun :D
But I don't hate them for the shed anymore, because I understood why they did it. I wish they hadn't handled the situation that way, but I understand and forgive them.