Well to be honest I too believe that the actions taken in life are going to be 'charged' at some point in time. And I believe of some sort of 'heaven', of somekind of afterlife. Although I don't think of it as a 'big place'. I believe that it'll be more personal. Something like your own little 'heaven'. Where you can live with your loved ones.
Although I don't think of something like 'hell'. I believe that just denying the possibilty and by that vanishing out of existence, is some sort of punishment.
Nice answer my friend!
I see many people talking around things like: If God exists, then why he let innocent people die murdered or anyth… moreing like that ..
God is not Superman and all people have free will. But everything good or bad that you do in life will be charged at some point. either in this life or the next.
that's why I love the concept of Karma. is something for which there is no escape. You can lie to everyone else, but never to yourself!
Exactly! these things are never really simple and everything has a reason, I agree with you.
In fact, all human knowledge is limited to the boundaries of the very human condition. we are like ants trapped in a piece of rock, without knowing what's on the other side of the forest! and believe me, the other side of the forest can be anything!!!
I don't know i don't think it is that simple, I think things may happen for a reason too, but what those reasons are beyond our understandin… moreg in the grand scheme of everything. It isn't something i think we can figure out, because in our reality all we see is the randomness of it.
I am a Christian, and I will never lose my faith, as Leland said, I don't lose my faith just because life gets hard. Life is going to get hard. I also wouldn't believe the ZA would be a punishment. Things just happen, God doesn't punish us with disasters. I would think humanity would rebuild, and The Rapture would come after the humanity gets back on it's feet.
I would remain a Christian.
Doing what is good in my eyes, surviving while protecting my loved ones and helping those who needs it.
Like many, I have my own beliefs and ideas about who/what God is. I deeply think about them almost every day, but at the end, I strongly believe that God/this higher being exists. I haven't read the Bible and I don't always agree with it, but same thing, I believe He exists.
Also, if it happened, the ZA would be a catastrophe to me, nothing less, nothing more.
Remaining Christian, keeping my faith intact or improving it is a choice that I made a long time ago, so yeah... Giving up becomes a habit after a while, so this choice will stay still.
I can see why you would be confused by these things, it's an actually very common place confusion, In fact, even as a muslim I also used to think "why not send people to their places if god already knows what they'll do and where they deserve to be?"
The test isn't there to tell God who deserves to go to heaven and who deserves to go to hell and for how long. It is there to tell us, to tell the judged person himself whether he deserves immediate ascension to heaven or burning in hell for whatever amount of time.
Yeah, technically speaking if god exists, he would know everything, and he would be able to simply send us right now to our rightful places due to how he knows everything, including everything about us and what we'll do. Then why not send us now when god knows what'll happen? Because we don't know what'll happen. God's giving everyone his due time so that the person judged knows why his judgement came about. If he were to be thrown in hell beforehand with the reason being "you were going to do this and that 4 years later", of course he'll feel unjustified. Yes, God with his power doesn't need to prove his knowledge or justify his judgement. But he'll still do so simply because it's justice that a person serves his time before he is judged.
It's like....hmmm, how do I put this in smaller scales and terms?.....say that some teachers have somehow earned the magical ability of being able to know how exactly each student would score the moment their test starts. Like, if you are a teacher and when the students start their test, you magically know that Student A will score exactly 90.5/100 and Student B will score exactly 74/100 and so on.
Now how many good teachers would use that ability to take the student's exam paper early mid-exam and apply the scoring they knew through their magical ability? ........none, Almost no good teacher would ever do that, or even make their magical abilities known public in the first place, why? Because even if they knew "You were going to write things that'd net you this amount of points", it's not right to take the papers early telling them "you were going to write things that'd net you this amount of points"., the student has to finish the experience and know why they failed,succeeded or excelled. Even if it was the Final Exam. Because they'll learn and believe more from their experience, than from your foretelling of their experience.(even if your foretelling is 100% accurate all the time)
Edit: Hmmmm,,,the explanation ended up getting much bigger than I wanted it to be, sorry for the religious textwall.
The concept of the test is a interesting one. One of the possible interpretation of the book of Job. And of course it is one possible expla… morenation. Although personally I can't grasp the idea of a test. I mean in my understanding a test is needed to classify something that you don't know.
As an example a teacher tests his class to be able to classify his pupils. Because he can't be sure about what they know exactly. And my understanding of almighty includes that God knows everything, too. So I don't see the necessity of a test, as God would know exactly what the result would be.
A second possible interpretation would be, that the test is not to classify something but to teach something to the pupils. I can't wrap my head around this too. If the test is to teach something, then why this 'complicated' and dangerous (may it be a ZA or something else) way. There are surely many other ways to pass knowledge without the need to kill people, fr… [view original content]
yes! you got it. me is a lil different, all I iknow is that there's a higher force than us. I don't see it as the all the religions put it. Jehova, Allah, and the jewish name for god. I mean that what most religions fight about..... a name. but I chose to pray ( I know is very hypocritical) because I choose to believe in a God like how you explained it. I think all religions are wrong, they have separated themselves and have tried to take control. all these wars that have taken place and all these complete extinctions of many people and cultures have buried a lot of truths and many things lost in translation (not everything can be translated properly, and I think some people have done it like that for a reason.) that many things from the bible and the quran and the Jewish bible ( sorry im not so educated on jewish stuff) have been lost and changed for people in power to stay in power can control and brain wash people. I think if people were united to learn all those major religions and not fight for stupid shit on religions and try to find out the REAL truth and search for lost documents that can reveal something.
Well, the basic principle of this question is as old as religion itself. Why do bad things happen, when there is an almighty being. The Theo… moredicy problem. I think it is one of the main reasons why many don't believe in God. It would be nice if we could solve this ancient problem in this thread
I personally believe in God. I believe in a God to whom free will is very important. I think that nearly everything terrible (e.g. war) that happens to mankind, happens because of mankind. I don't think that God would intervene in such a matter, because of our free will. I mean what point would life have, if it would be steered completly. If we can't choose, why then give us the illusion to do so.
I don't think that a ZA would change my believe. Because I'm pretty sure that if something like this happened, mankind would have screwed something up.
No need to be sorry I thank you for taking your time to explain it.
I think I can see what you mean. If I get this right: the test is to help us understand, why we deserve our final judgement. Because for us as humans experience is important to reach understanding. We have to feel and see it for ourselves, so to speak.
But still, although I can now understand the concept of a test better, I think that there have to be 'other' ways. Why should God let us suffer and feel pain to help us reach understanding. I believe that there could be something less agonizing. I mean after all he loves us.
I can see why you would be confused by these things, it's an actually very common place confusion, In fact, even as a muslim I also used to … morethink "why not send people to their places if god already knows what they'll do and where they deserve to be?"
The test isn't there to tell God who deserves to go to heaven and who deserves to go to hell and for how long. It is there to tell us, to tell the judged person himself whether he deserves immediate ascension to heaven or burning in hell for whatever amount of time.
Yeah, technically speaking if god exists, he would know everything, and he would be able to simply send us right now to our rightful places due to how he knows everything, including everything about us and what we'll do. Then why not send us now when god knows what'll happen? Because we don't know what'll happen. God's giving everyone his due time so that the person judged knows why his judgement came about. If he were to be thr… [view original content]
I am a Christian in the most basic sense. I believe in the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost and consider myself more spiritual than religious. Od… moredly enough, I'm not a fan of organized religion and am a complete dunderhead when it comes to the Bible. To me, my beliefs are extremely private, my internal values kept mostly to myself unless questioned by a trustworthy friend. I accept and respect anyone whose beliefs differ from my own. I expect those around me to respect me, so why would I criticize or judge someone who doesn't have the same point of view as me? I love it when people discuss their religious beliefs or lack thereof because I find other peoples' perspectives on life very fascinating and am always open to learning something new. As far as blind faith is concerned, I find it contradictory of myself to be skeptical about most things but have no problem believing God is there without any concrete proof. shrug At least I'm fully aware of th… [view original content]
Yes for sure! My concept of Heaven and Hell, are more internal, or personal. I don't see it as a "physical place". it's all a matter of spiritual balance, or self-balancing.
A person addicted to crack, or cocaine is a deeply unbalanced person himself, and so is living in hell. in his personal hell. is someone who has been seduced by the material ills and it's stuck to them..
But if this person has to kick the habit completely. will have earned an evolutionary step from the spirit. that person has obtained part of his purity. the conscious purity. one that you just reach through the experiences of life.
If you are in complete balance with yourself, no matter what there is around you, nothing can touch you.
Well to be honest I too believe that the actions taken in life are going to be 'charged' at some point in time. And I believe of some sort o… moref 'heaven', of somekind of afterlife. Although I don't think of it as a 'big place'. I believe that it'll be more personal. Something like your own little 'heaven'. Where you can live with your loved ones.
Although I don't think of something like 'hell'. I believe that just denying the possibilty and by that vanishing out of existence, is some sort of punishment.
Like you I don't like wars, that are done in the name of any god. I believe that if god really has a problem with a person, who else then god would have better meanings to solve it.
And I think that changes have been made during history to the holy scriptures of any religion, for various reasons, too. And of course there is always room for interpretation. So following any holy scripture by the letter is very 'difficult' from my point of view.
Like you, I think that the religions should enter in some kind of dialogue with each other. And try to help each other, if possible.
yes! you got it. me is a lil different, all I iknow is that there's a higher force than us. I don't see it as the all the religions put it.… more Jehova, Allah, and the jewish name for god. I mean that what most religions fight about..... a name. but I chose to pray ( I know is very hypocritical) because I choose to believe in a God like how you explained it. I think all religions are wrong, they have separated themselves and have tried to take control. all these wars that have taken place and all these complete extinctions of many people and cultures have buried a lot of truths and many things lost in translation (not everything can be translated properly, and I think some people have done it like that for a reason.) that many things from the bible and the quran and the Jewish bible ( sorry im not so educated on jewish stuff) have been lost and changed for people in power to stay in power can control and brain wash people. I think if people were … [view original content]
Like you I don't like wars, that are done in the name of any god. I believe that if god really has a problem with a person, who else then go… mored would have better meanings to solve it.
And I think that changes have been made during history to the holy scriptures of any religion, for various reasons, too. And of course there is always room for interpretation. So following any holy scripture by the letter is very 'difficult' from my point of view.
Like you, I think that the religions should enter in some kind of dialogue with each other. And try to help each other, if possible.
I have no trouble at all thinking that one day my entire existence will be not only over with, but also forgotten. For me that's just always been a fact of life. I see no reason to dwell on it as a negative thing, rather I prefer to enjoy the time I have and do my best to leave the planet a better place for up-and-coming generations than I found it. In my opinion that's more fulfilling than doing the same in hopes of being rewarded.
Either way your existence on Earth is only remembered by those you knew and by the deeds you did. As I said, this doesn't bother me, nor has it ever.
Edit: The briefness of life and its experiences only makes it sweeter, because I was given the opportunity to experience it, and I had the chance to be apart of other people's as well. When my time has come I hope I'll have no regrets, but even if I do I wouldn't want to live on for the rest of eternity being judged for mistakes I may or may not have made whilst living. Nor would I want to live on for eternity being praised for the deeds I may or may not have performed. An end suits me fine.
You can really live knowing that your ENTIRE experience of life will be completely erased after death?
this is a concept of life at least disturbing to me. it's like you never existed. think about it.
I have no set religion. I just support me more in Spiritism Doctrine.
I think the most important thing is to be religious, and not. to have a specific religion.
I feel almost exactly the opposite of how you feel about a lack of an afterlife. I feel as though the finite nature of our lives increases the meaningfulness/value of them. You have a brief period of existence, and it's up to you to make the most out of it. If you live out your entire life and love it, why do you need to reflect on that brief period of enjoyment for eternity, or, if heaven is truly eternal paradise and things other than reflection will happen there, why do you need to live a brief existence on Earth to determine if you get there or not? Why do you need a brief Earthly existence at all in that case? Why not skip the middle man and start at eternity? Surely the rest of eternity > one Earthly lifetime? Plus, if you do a lot of good deeds that better the lives of others, why do you need to be rewarded further? I think about this much like scarcity. Things such as gold have such high values because of their finite nature. If gold were as prevalent as iron it would be worth no more than iron.
Besides, unless you are a hermit, you will live on through the memories of others. You will have raised and taught your children if you had or cared for any, and done many other things that people will remember. A good and relevant example of this is Lee's impact on Clem. Lee may be dead, but it is because of him that she is still live, and he influenced Clem's life experience and values, and those experiences are things that she will pass on to her peers and children if she has them.
The most valuable aspect of life to me is life itself, not the idea that I will get to reflect on it for the rest of eternity; I get the chance to have experiences, and to pass them on to the next generations so that they may not only have life as well, but hopefully have a better one than I did. Living your life a certain way only because you feel like there's a reward devalues life more than its finite nature ever could.
Thank you for your comment sir! and relax no one will judge you here! ^^
I also never read the Bible. My belief is much more critical and… more comes from what I feel inside. My belief in God is something I discovered for myself, not something that someone told me at some point of life. and you can be sure that I've asked myself a lot about this subject.
For me the lack of an afterlife. makes the act of living something completely useless and meaningless. is like a bad joke .. what good this would be for a person. to live, learn, love, discover and evolve, if at the end all you've earned will be "SHIFT+DELETE" forever!?? if you analyze carefully. it's like you never existed!! there is no purpose in living like this!
I don't know as for you. but life would completely lose sense to me and would be a complete waste of time..
I used to believe in God but life has kind of hit me hard (in a non-dramatic way) but has made me think He does not exsit. I have no problems with atheists or religious people as long as both groups are not extreme. I think if Zombies/walkers started to exist, I would accept either religious or scientific explanation as long as there is good evidence for the explanation. Either way, I would more likely hope for a good resolution.
I used to believe in God but life has kind of hit me hard (in a non-dramatic way) but has made me think He does not exsit. I have no problem… mores with atheists or religious people as long as both groups are not extreme. I think if Zombies/walkers started to exist, I would accept either religious or scientific explanation as long as there is good evidence for the explanation. Either way, I would more likely hope for a good resolution.
Personally, I would far rather continue on after death as a ghost, another reincarnation, whatever. I just haven't seen any evidence that I will. Either way, I don't have a choice, so yes, I live my life knowing that, and it influences me to make my life the best life I can, to enjoy the time I have and help others enjoy theirs. Will that matter when I'm dead? Probably not. But I'm not dead yet, and it matters now.
You can really live knowing that your ENTIRE experience of life will be completely erased after death?
this is a concept of life at least disturbing to me. it's like you never existed. think about it.
Seriously though, The whole mortal/immortal discussion is missing the neutral view. I neither believe in immortality as in heaven, Nor mortality from the view of atheists, with all due respect. Immortality is scientifically possible and it's thought that it can be achieved by 2022. "Google it." However, It all depends on your views, If your personality is genuine enough to create their own philosophies and moralities, Your mind will be at peace with itself and you'll become "Hermit".
I feel almost exactly the opposite of how you feel about a lack of an afterlife. I feel as though the finite nature of our lives increases t… morehe meaningfulness/value of them. You have a brief period of existence, and it's up to you to make the most out of it. If you live out your entire life and love it, why do you need to reflect on that brief period of enjoyment for eternity, or, if heaven is truly eternal paradise and things other than reflection will happen there, why do you need to live a brief existence on Earth to determine if you get there or not? Why do you need a brief Earthly existence at all in that case? Why not skip the middle man and start at eternity? Surely the rest of eternity > one Earthly lifetime? Plus, if you do a lot of good deeds that better the lives of others, why do you need to be rewarded further? I think about this much like scarcity. Things such as gold have such high values because of their finite nature. If go… [view original content]
I believe in God, but I don't go to the church, read the bible, etc... so in case of a zombie apocalypse my belief wouldn't really change, seeing I'm not a super devoted religious person.
I've never bought the 'free will' argument to explain evil, for a number of reasons. The first is it sounds like rationalization. But even beyond that, it still doesn't explain the existence of evil, or what are sometimes called 'acts of God' (natural disasters). To say that we have the choice to do evil presupposes the existence of a choice to do evil and the drive to do so. This is what I was getting at when I mentioned the German film - God placed the fruit in the Garden of Eden and in doing so created the potential for evil. Moreover, the snake's tempting of Eve implies that Eve would have an inclination to respond to such a temptation - where did that come from? (For more, see Kierkegaard's The Concept of Anxiety)
Moreover, if there is a God, and more specifically if there is a Heaven and Hell, then there is no true freedom of choice. Christopher Hitchens compares a world with God to North Korea, which is perhaps a bit much, but there is a point to a certain extent - if people act upon the choice to do unrepentant evil, they go to hell. Calling that free will would be the same as saying North Korea has freedom of speech - sure you have the ability to say whatever you want, but that doesn't mean you're not getting sent to a prison camp after.
I think he can prevent evil, but he does not. because this is part of the spiritual evolution of each person.
For a child to learn to ride … morea bike you need to let her try to do it alone. even though she/he will probably fall a few times and get hurt in the process.
If God would keep all the evil that exists in the world he would be contradicting free will that he gave us.
OK, I think I understand now. And I must say, It's cool to see someone with a great attitude like yours. There are some much buttholes (atheists and religious people) saying that there opinion is the best and everyone must believe it; so it's cool to see some open minded people. Keep your philosophy up man We need more people like you on this planet.
My opinion about religion is that most of the time people take it too literally. (that's why this is a dangerous topic to discuss. but. like… more Clementine I'm not afraid to face challenges, and so I created this topic. hahaha)
I think each person should/could look for different religions or doctrines, study it and draw their own conclusions based on what they read. debating with friends, or in communities like this. critical thinking is something essential. otherwise you're just a religious fanatic. What I definitely do not think is right. is someone criticizing negatively something that doesn't even know. and things like this happen quite..
In the end, what matters is what you FEEL inside. and not what other people say is right.
Yeah, well he ate the fish. So... yano... don't make rules if you can't follow them and I ain't a vegetarian. I'm planning on becoming one but It's pretty fucking hard. Even if that wasn't a rule I would still be pissed. How would you like to be sawn into fucking two? Oh, but the cute animals stay alive because the kiddies wanna see em', ey?
Ops sorry bro.
He actually ate fish at the last supper?
This is something interesting to discuss. I'm not a vegetarian. but I understa… morend that animals have the right to life as every living being. and I think the food industry today is no different from the Nazi concentration camps. if you ever stopped to see what they actually do with animals will give me every reason.
Ops sorry bro.
He actually ate fish at the last supper?
This is something interesting to discuss. I'm not a vegetarian. but I understa… morend that animals have the right to life as every living being. and I think the food industry today is no different from the Nazi concentration camps. if you ever stopped to see what they actually do with animals will give me every reason.
I'm not religious and I don't believe in any gods. If the dead started walking the earth, my disbelief would not change in any way. My atheism wouldn't be challenged or reinforced, it'd just stay the same.
That said, I am a very sensitive and empathetic person, so the sheer violence and destruction of a zombie apocalypse would severely break my spirits. If a zombie apocalypse happened, I'd probably lose nearly all reason to live. I wouldn't commit suicide, though, because that wouldn't accomplish anything. I'm going to die anyway, so I might as well do all that I can to help other people while I'm still around.
So I guess my reason to live would become helping people for as long as I can. Also, if my family is still alive, then I'd do my best to keep it that way.
I'm agnostic. I guess zombies would both comfirm a higher power (let's face it, the T virus is bullshit) but, ironically, make me completely loose faith in it. Frankly, there's no way to justify so much pain and suffering.
I'm agnostic. I guess zombies would both comfirm a higher power (let's face it, the T virus is bullshit) but, ironically, make me completely loose faith in it. Frankly, there's no way to justify so much pain and suffering.
Because there are too many things that can't be justified from a scientific point of view. I guess the agressiveness and how you completely loose yourself is plausible. There are several diseases that cause one or both, specially rabies, which is the closest to a zombie you can have in real life. But the fact that they can walk even though they're dead, only being killed by headshots, while they rot is a little too much. Also, their behaviour is a little unjustifiable as well. Even if you can (very) technically make someone or something so hungry they'll just eat anything, why don't they eat or even attack each other? Aren't they completely mindless? How can they even tell each other from a living person if they're stupider than the dodo bird? They even share food. The closest they'll get to competing for the food they crave so much for is pushing each other.
Some of those things are justified scientifically very well. And you don't get the point of zombies. I wonder if you have ever watched World War Z. and Just because you don't have the technology needed to have the requested results right now doesn't mean science can't justify it.
Because there are too many things that can't be justified from a scientific point of view. I guess the agressiveness and how you completely … moreloose yourself is plausible. There are several diseases that cause one or both, specially rabies, which is the closest to a zombie you can have in real life. But the fact that they can walk even though they're dead, only being killed by headshots, while they rot is a little too much. Also, their behaviour is a little unjustifiable as well. Even if you can (very) technically make someone or something so hungry they'll just eat anything, why don't they eat or even attack each other? Aren't they completely mindless? How can they even tell each other from a living person if they're stupider than the dodo bird? They even share food. The closest they'll get to competing for the food they crave so much for is pushing each other.
I watched World War Z and I still find zombies impossible. Frankly, I think (not quite sure, though) the closest you get to a real zombie is in 28 Days Later. Which of the things I said are justifiable?
Some of those things are justified scientifically very well. And you don't get the point of zombies. I wonder if you have ever watched World… more War Z. and Just because you don't have the technology needed to have the requested results right now doesn't mean science can't justify it.
I mean in general. the zombie virus is always thought to be a mystery in its origins, Doesn't mean that it has no origin. World War Z explains much understanding of the outbreak, Sequels to discuss the origins. Even the Pentagon has a protocol for the ZA. It's very possible.
I watched World War Z and I still find zombies impossible. Frankly, I think (not quite sure, though) the closest you get to a real zombie is in 28 Days Later. Which of the things I said are justifiable?
A world epidemic is possible. Maybe World War Z is pretty accurate showing that, but, I'm sorry, I'm never gonna see any purely scientific explanation (at least with the information we have now) as to how a zombie can exist. No matter the franchise, there's always something I find impossible: either the rotting, the survival in spite of shots, stabs, hunger and worse, the cooperation (found even in the most realistic movies) or something else. And that just all the things I can think of. For instance, I recall reading somewhere that (in the dead zombies) the bacteria in your colon would start making gases which would accumulate until the zombies explode. It's not like I wonna start hearing some junk about demons or witches in TWD, but, to me, a ZA can only happen in fiction.
I mean in general. the zombie virus is always thought to be a mystery in its origins, Doesn't mean that it has no origin. World War Z explai… morens much understanding of the outbreak, Sequels to discuss the origins. Even the Pentagon has a protocol for the ZA. It's very possible.
How do you morally understand an event of this magnitude?
Morals and belief don't have much relation to each other, actually. You can be atheistic and be a compassionate sweetheart, or be Christian and a serial killer. I don't understand why you'd ask this specifically because I'm an atheist, unless you're implying that atheists lack a sturdy moral foundation?
Anyways, bad things happen. Volcanic eruptions, storms, plagues, you name it. This would just be another disaster; no particular reason for it happening other than, well, it happens. Personally, I'd be willing to get my hands a little dirty if the survival of the people I cared about counted on it.
This catastrophic event would make you rethink about believe in God?
I don't think so. Judging by how routine things become for the survivors after a while, I think I'd just stick with my current views.
This catastrophic event would only serve to reinforce the idea that there is nothing beyond us?
That only applies to people who don't believe in a god for moral reasons. A "why do bad things happen to good people?" sort of thing. I don't believe in God because of a lack of supporting evidence. There isn't anything reinforcing the idea that there isn't a god, but there's nothing supporting that there is one.
Well, it's the pentagon who has the respond, Not me. But again, This is what a ZA is supposed to be, You don't know what are the origins and you're supposed to find out to stop it, That's all.
A world epidemic is possible. Maybe World War Z is pretty accurate showing that, but, I'm sorry, I'm never gonna see any purely scientific e… morexplanation (at least with the information we have now) as to how a zombie can exist. No matter the franchise, there's always something I find impossible: either the rotting, the survival in spite of shots, stabs, hunger and worse, the cooperation (found even in the most realistic movies) or something else. And that just all the things I can think of. For instance, I recall reading somewhere that (in the dead zombies) the bacteria in your colon would start making gases which would accumulate until the zombies explode. It's not like I wonna start hearing some junk about demons or witches in TWD, but, to me, a ZA can only happen in fiction.
Exactly! It's misterious and no one gets anything and that's how I like it. I'm just saying that, even if it happened in the real world and had a perfect scientific explanation, none of us would know it and I could only consider a supernatural explanation to this.
Well, it's the pentagon who has the respond, Not me. But again, This is what a ZA is supposed to be, You don't know what are the origins and you're supposed to find out to stop it, That's all.
Exactly! It's misterious and no one gets anything and that's how I like it. I'm just saying that, even if it happened in the real world and … morehad a perfect scientific explanation, none of us would know it and I could only consider a supernatural explanation to this.
Firstly, this would be more than just another disaster. It would be a massive and catastrophic extintion event, possibly the worst in history (for land animals, at least). Secondly, it wouldn't be crazy for a Christian to question an all-loving God if something this terrible would happen. None of the genocides, natural disasters and plagues in our history had as high a death toll as the ZA depicted in fiction or brought us particularly close to extinction since the last Ice Age.
As for atheist or agnostics (like me), the fact that zombies are so hard, if not impossible, to justify from a scientific point of view could also fuck up with their heads a little bit. Still, I think most atheists and agnostics would just assume that just 'cause we don't know how zombies work doesn't mean God is punishing us for Miley Cyrus. They'd just quote that guy who said magic is only the science we don't understand (or it was something like this).
How do you morally understand an event of this magnitude?
Morals and belief don't have much relation to each other, actually. You can be … moreatheistic and be a compassionate sweetheart, or be Christian and a serial killer. I don't understand why you'd ask this specifically because I'm an atheist, unless you're implying that atheists lack a sturdy moral foundation?
Anyways, bad things happen. Volcanic eruptions, storms, plagues, you name it. This would just be another disaster; no particular reason for it happening other than, well, it happens. Personally, I'd be willing to get my hands a little dirty if the survival of the people I cared about counted on it.
This catastrophic event would make you rethink about believe in God?
I don't think so. Judging by how routine things become for the survivors after a while, I think I'd just stick with my current views.
This catastrophic event would only serve to reinforce the idea that there i… [view original content]
All right guys let's CLASH some morals here! (with RESPECT please)
Are you a religious person? Do you believe in God? NO I am not religious
If YES: * How your belief would affect you in a zombie apocalypse? * this would be a predestined event of mankind? * it would mean the day of judgment, the final test of each human-being as a person? * This catastrophic event would make you stop believing in God?
if NO: * How do you morally understand an event of this magnitude? * This catastrophic event would make you rethink about believe in God? * This catastrophic event would only serve to reinforce the idea that there is nothing beyond us?
this, even no matter the magnitude of it is amoral, there is no moral to the zombie apocalypse, the dead does not rise again because to many kids have pre-marital sex or masturbate. Even in such a catastrophe I would not rethink the way I see God, the Devil and all the angels, to me as an agnostic atheist they are still about as likely as Thor, the God of thunder existing. Still there is no inherit morals to the apocalypse, the ZA happens because of something in this world. we could argue that depending on what actually caused the ZA we could decide how the morals would be.
If we play with the thought that the ZA happened because of an experiment gone wrong with biological weapons then we could say that the those who did the experiment were morally bad, or just plain idiots and we could, from there give the same attribute to the ZA. sort of like an inherited moral. However, until we actually learn what caused the ZA we have to assume that it is an Amoral thing.
The catastrophic event would probably not have any effect on my thoughts about God nor my thoughts about atheism, I would however rethink what it means to be human, new perceptions would be added.
Comments
Well to be honest I too believe that the actions taken in life are going to be 'charged' at some point in time. And I believe of some sort of 'heaven', of somekind of afterlife. Although I don't think of it as a 'big place'. I believe that it'll be more personal. Something like your own little 'heaven'. Where you can live with your loved ones.
Although I don't think of something like 'hell'. I believe that just denying the possibilty and by that vanishing out of existence, is some sort of punishment.
Exactly! these things are never really simple and everything has a reason, I agree with you.
In fact, all human knowledge is limited to the boundaries of the very human condition. we are like ants trapped in a piece of rock, without knowing what's on the other side of the forest! and believe me, the other side of the forest can be anything!!!
You can really live knowing that your ENTIRE experience of life will be completely erased after death?
this is a concept of life at least disturbing to me. it's like you never existed. think about it.
I am a Christian, and I will never lose my faith, as Leland said, I don't lose my faith just because life gets hard. Life is going to get hard. I also wouldn't believe the ZA would be a punishment. Things just happen, God doesn't punish us with disasters. I would think humanity would rebuild, and The Rapture would come after the humanity gets back on it's feet.
I would remain a Christian.
Doing what is good in my eyes, surviving while protecting my loved ones and helping those who needs it.
Like many, I have my own beliefs and ideas about who/what God is. I deeply think about them almost every day, but at the end, I strongly believe that God/this higher being exists. I haven't read the Bible and I don't always agree with it, but same thing, I believe He exists.
Also, if it happened, the ZA would be a catastrophe to me, nothing less, nothing more.
Remaining Christian, keeping my faith intact or improving it is a choice that I made a long time ago, so yeah... Giving up becomes a habit after a while, so this choice will stay still.
I can see why you would be confused by these things, it's an actually very common place confusion, In fact, even as a muslim I also used to think "why not send people to their places if god already knows what they'll do and where they deserve to be?"
The test isn't there to tell God who deserves to go to heaven and who deserves to go to hell and for how long. It is there to tell us, to tell the judged person himself whether he deserves immediate ascension to heaven or burning in hell for whatever amount of time.
Yeah, technically speaking if god exists, he would know everything, and he would be able to simply send us right now to our rightful places due to how he knows everything, including everything about us and what we'll do. Then why not send us now when god knows what'll happen? Because we don't know what'll happen. God's giving everyone his due time so that the person judged knows why his judgement came about. If he were to be thrown in hell beforehand with the reason being "you were going to do this and that 4 years later", of course he'll feel unjustified. Yes, God with his power doesn't need to prove his knowledge or justify his judgement. But he'll still do so simply because it's justice that a person serves his time before he is judged.
It's like....hmmm, how do I put this in smaller scales and terms?.....say that some teachers have somehow earned the magical ability of being able to know how exactly each student would score the moment their test starts. Like, if you are a teacher and when the students start their test, you magically know that Student A will score exactly 90.5/100 and Student B will score exactly 74/100 and so on.
Now how many good teachers would use that ability to take the student's exam paper early mid-exam and apply the scoring they knew through their magical ability? ........none, Almost no good teacher would ever do that, or even make their magical abilities known public in the first place, why? Because even if they knew "You were going to write things that'd net you this amount of points", it's not right to take the papers early telling them "you were going to write things that'd net you this amount of points"., the student has to finish the experience and know why they failed,succeeded or excelled. Even if it was the Final Exam. Because they'll learn and believe more from their experience, than from your foretelling of their experience.(even if your foretelling is 100% accurate all the time)
Edit: Hmmmm,,,the explanation ended up getting much bigger than I wanted it to be, sorry for the religious textwall.
yes! you got it. me is a lil different, all I iknow is that there's a higher force than us. I don't see it as the all the religions put it. Jehova, Allah, and the jewish name for god. I mean that what most religions fight about..... a name. but I chose to pray ( I know is very hypocritical) because I choose to believe in a God like how you explained it. I think all religions are wrong, they have separated themselves and have tried to take control. all these wars that have taken place and all these complete extinctions of many people and cultures have buried a lot of truths and many things lost in translation (not everything can be translated properly, and I think some people have done it like that for a reason.) that many things from the bible and the quran and the Jewish bible ( sorry im not so educated on jewish stuff) have been lost and changed for people in power to stay in power can control and brain wash people. I think if people were united to learn all those major religions and not fight for stupid shit on religions and try to find out the REAL truth and search for lost documents that can reveal something.
No need to be sorry
I thank you for taking your time to explain it.
I think I can see what you mean. If I get this right: the test is to help us understand, why we deserve our final judgement. Because for us as humans experience is important to reach understanding. We have to feel and see it for ourselves, so to speak.
But still, although I can now understand the concept of a test better, I think that there have to be 'other' ways. Why should God let us suffer and feel pain to help us reach understanding. I believe that there could be something less agonizing. I mean after all he loves us.
Sound a lot like myself here.
Yes for sure! My concept of Heaven and Hell, are more internal, or personal. I don't see it as a "physical place". it's all a matter of spiritual balance, or self-balancing.
A person addicted to crack, or cocaine is a deeply unbalanced person himself, and so is living in hell. in his personal hell. is someone who has been seduced by the material ills and it's stuck to them..
But if this person has to kick the habit completely. will have earned an evolutionary step from the spirit. that person has obtained part of his purity. the conscious purity. one that you just reach through the experiences of life.
If you are in complete balance with yourself, no matter what there is around you, nothing can touch you.
Like you I don't like wars, that are done in the name of any god. I believe that if god really has a problem with a person, who else then god would have better meanings to solve it.
And I think that changes have been made during history to the holy scriptures of any religion, for various reasons, too. And of course there is always room for interpretation. So following any holy scripture by the letter is very 'difficult' from my point of view.
Like you, I think that the religions should enter in some kind of dialogue with each other. And try to help each other, if possible.
yeah man that's great its great to know that theres people out there that know whats really know..... that are not blinded
I have no trouble at all thinking that one day my entire existence will be not only over with, but also forgotten. For me that's just always been a fact of life. I see no reason to dwell on it as a negative thing, rather I prefer to enjoy the time I have and do my best to leave the planet a better place for up-and-coming generations than I found it. In my opinion that's more fulfilling than doing the same in hopes of being rewarded.
Either way your existence on Earth is only remembered by those you knew and by the deeds you did. As I said, this doesn't bother me, nor has it ever.
Edit: The briefness of life and its experiences only makes it sweeter, because I was given the opportunity to experience it, and I had the chance to be apart of other people's as well. When my time has come I hope I'll have no regrets, but even if I do I wouldn't want to live on for the rest of eternity being judged for mistakes I may or may not have made whilst living. Nor would I want to live on for eternity being praised for the deeds I may or may not have performed. An end suits me fine.
Why is it important to be religious if the religion itself doesn't matter?
I may lose my faith after watching my family and friends get eaten alive by zombies.
I feel almost exactly the opposite of how you feel about a lack of an afterlife. I feel as though the finite nature of our lives increases the meaningfulness/value of them. You have a brief period of existence, and it's up to you to make the most out of it. If you live out your entire life and love it, why do you need to reflect on that brief period of enjoyment for eternity, or, if heaven is truly eternal paradise and things other than reflection will happen there, why do you need to live a brief existence on Earth to determine if you get there or not? Why do you need a brief Earthly existence at all in that case? Why not skip the middle man and start at eternity? Surely the rest of eternity > one Earthly lifetime? Plus, if you do a lot of good deeds that better the lives of others, why do you need to be rewarded further? I think about this much like scarcity. Things such as gold have such high values because of their finite nature. If gold were as prevalent as iron it would be worth no more than iron.
Besides, unless you are a hermit, you will live on through the memories of others. You will have raised and taught your children if you had or cared for any, and done many other things that people will remember. A good and relevant example of this is Lee's impact on Clem. Lee may be dead, but it is because of him that she is still live, and he influenced Clem's life experience and values, and those experiences are things that she will pass on to her peers and children if she has them.
The most valuable aspect of life to me is life itself, not the idea that I will get to reflect on it for the rest of eternity; I get the chance to have experiences, and to pass them on to the next generations so that they may not only have life as well, but hopefully have a better one than I did. Living your life a certain way only because you feel like there's a reward devalues life more than its finite nature ever could.
I used to believe in God but life has kind of hit me hard (in a non-dramatic way) but has made me think He does not exsit. I have no problems with atheists or religious people as long as both groups are not extreme. I think if Zombies/walkers started to exist, I would accept either religious or scientific explanation as long as there is good evidence for the explanation. Either way, I would more likely hope for a good resolution.
I disagree with you! Let us get into a long pointless argument about it!
Personally, I would far rather continue on after death as a ghost, another reincarnation, whatever. I just haven't seen any evidence that I will. Either way, I don't have a choice, so yes, I live my life knowing that, and it influences me to make my life the best life I can, to enjoy the time I have and help others enjoy theirs. Will that matter when I'm dead? Probably not. But I'm not dead yet, and it matters now.
I am hermit and i know it. xD
Seriously though, The whole mortal/immortal discussion is missing the neutral view. I neither believe in immortality as in heaven, Nor mortality from the view of atheists, with all due respect. Immortality is scientifically possible and it's thought that it can be achieved by 2022. "Google it." However, It all depends on your views, If your personality is genuine enough to create their own philosophies and moralities, Your mind will be at peace with itself and you'll become "Hermit".
I believe in God, but I don't go to the church, read the bible, etc... so in case of a zombie apocalypse my belief wouldn't really change, seeing I'm not a super devoted religious person.
I've never bought the 'free will' argument to explain evil, for a number of reasons. The first is it sounds like rationalization. But even beyond that, it still doesn't explain the existence of evil, or what are sometimes called 'acts of God' (natural disasters). To say that we have the choice to do evil presupposes the existence of a choice to do evil and the drive to do so. This is what I was getting at when I mentioned the German film - God placed the fruit in the Garden of Eden and in doing so created the potential for evil. Moreover, the snake's tempting of Eve implies that Eve would have an inclination to respond to such a temptation - where did that come from? (For more, see Kierkegaard's The Concept of Anxiety)
Moreover, if there is a God, and more specifically if there is a Heaven and Hell, then there is no true freedom of choice. Christopher Hitchens compares a world with God to North Korea, which is perhaps a bit much, but there is a point to a certain extent - if people act upon the choice to do unrepentant evil, they go to hell. Calling that free will would be the same as saying North Korea has freedom of speech - sure you have the ability to say whatever you want, but that doesn't mean you're not getting sent to a prison camp after.
OK, I think I understand now. And I must say, It's cool to see someone with a great attitude like yours. There are some much buttholes (atheists and religious people) saying that there opinion is the best and everyone must believe it; so it's cool to see some open minded people. Keep your philosophy up man
We need more people like you on this planet.
Yeah, well he ate the fish. So... yano... don't make rules if you can't follow them and I ain't a vegetarian. I'm planning on becoming one but It's pretty fucking hard. Even if that wasn't a rule I would still be pissed. How would you like to be sawn into fucking two? Oh, but the cute animals stay alive because the kiddies wanna see em', ey?
My sis was a T.A. for a law professor who researches meat-industry standards. I know all too well...D:
I am an agnostic and I am pretty sure that nothing will change about my vision of the God.
I'm not religious and I don't believe in any gods. If the dead started walking the earth, my disbelief would not change in any way. My atheism wouldn't be challenged or reinforced, it'd just stay the same.
That said, I am a very sensitive and empathetic person, so the sheer violence and destruction of a zombie apocalypse would severely break my spirits. If a zombie apocalypse happened, I'd probably lose nearly all reason to live. I wouldn't commit suicide, though, because that wouldn't accomplish anything. I'm going to die anyway, so I might as well do all that I can to help other people while I'm still around.
So I guess my reason to live would become helping people for as long as I can. Also, if my family is still alive, then I'd do my best to keep it that way.
I'm agnostic. I guess zombies would both comfirm a higher power (let's face it, the T virus is bullshit) but, ironically, make me completely loose faith in it. Frankly, there's no way to justify so much pain and suffering.
Exactly why a zombie virus is bullshit?
Because there are too many things that can't be justified from a scientific point of view. I guess the agressiveness and how you completely loose yourself is plausible. There are several diseases that cause one or both, specially rabies, which is the closest to a zombie you can have in real life. But the fact that they can walk even though they're dead, only being killed by headshots, while they rot is a little too much. Also, their behaviour is a little unjustifiable as well. Even if you can (very) technically make someone or something so hungry they'll just eat anything, why don't they eat or even attack each other? Aren't they completely mindless? How can they even tell each other from a living person if they're stupider than the dodo bird? They even share food. The closest they'll get to competing for the food they crave so much for is pushing each other.
Some of those things are justified scientifically very well. And you don't get the point of zombies. I wonder if you have ever watched World War Z. and Just because you don't have the technology needed to have the requested results right now doesn't mean science can't justify it.
I watched World War Z and I still find zombies impossible. Frankly, I think (not quite sure, though) the closest you get to a real zombie is in 28 Days Later. Which of the things I said are justifiable?
I mean in general. the zombie virus is always thought to be a mystery in its origins, Doesn't mean that it has no origin. World War Z explains much understanding of the outbreak, Sequels to discuss the origins. Even the Pentagon has a protocol for the ZA. It's very possible.
A world epidemic is possible. Maybe World War Z is pretty accurate showing that, but, I'm sorry, I'm never gonna see any purely scientific explanation (at least with the information we have now) as to how a zombie can exist. No matter the franchise, there's always something I find impossible: either the rotting, the survival in spite of shots, stabs, hunger and worse, the cooperation (found even in the most realistic movies) or something else. And that just all the things I can think of. For instance, I recall reading somewhere that (in the dead zombies) the bacteria in your colon would start making gases which would accumulate until the zombies explode. It's not like I wonna start hearing some junk about demons or witches in TWD, but, to me, a ZA can only happen in fiction.
How do you morally understand an event of this magnitude?
Morals and belief don't have much relation to each other, actually. You can be atheistic and be a compassionate sweetheart, or be Christian and a serial killer. I don't understand why you'd ask this specifically because I'm an atheist, unless you're implying that atheists lack a sturdy moral foundation?
Anyways, bad things happen. Volcanic eruptions, storms, plagues, you name it. This would just be another disaster; no particular reason for it happening other than, well, it happens. Personally, I'd be willing to get my hands a little dirty if the survival of the people I cared about counted on it.
This catastrophic event would make you rethink about believe in God?
I don't think so. Judging by how routine things become for the survivors after a while, I think I'd just stick with my current views.
This catastrophic event would only serve to reinforce the idea that there is nothing beyond us?
That only applies to people who don't believe in a god for moral reasons. A "why do bad things happen to good people?" sort of thing. I don't believe in God because of a lack of supporting evidence. There isn't anything reinforcing the idea that there isn't a god, but there's nothing supporting that there is one.
Well, it's the pentagon who has the respond, Not me. But again, This is what a ZA is supposed to be, You don't know what are the origins and you're supposed to find out to stop it, That's all.
Exactly! It's misterious and no one gets anything and that's how I like it. I'm just saying that, even if it happened in the real world and had a perfect scientific explanation, none of us would know it and I could only consider a supernatural explanation to this.
Agreed.
Firstly, this would be more than just another disaster. It would be a massive and catastrophic extintion event, possibly the worst in history (for land animals, at least). Secondly, it wouldn't be crazy for a Christian to question an all-loving God if something this terrible would happen. None of the genocides, natural disasters and plagues in our history had as high a death toll as the ZA depicted in fiction or brought us particularly close to extinction since the last Ice Age.
As for atheist or agnostics (like me), the fact that zombies are so hard, if not impossible, to justify from a scientific point of view could also fuck up with their heads a little bit. Still, I think most atheists and agnostics would just assume that just 'cause we don't know how zombies work doesn't mean God is punishing us for Miley Cyrus. They'd just quote that guy who said magic is only the science we don't understand (or it was something like this).
Hasty answers
All right guys let's CLASH some morals here! (with RESPECT please)
Are you a religious person? Do you believe in God? NO I am not religious
If YES: * How your belief would affect you in a zombie apocalypse? * this would be a predestined event of mankind? * it would mean the day of judgment, the final test of each human-being as a person? * This catastrophic event would make you stop believing in God?
if NO: * How do you morally understand an event of this magnitude? * This catastrophic event would make you rethink about believe in God? * This catastrophic event would only serve to reinforce the idea that there is nothing beyond us?
If we play with the thought that the ZA happened because of an experiment gone wrong with biological weapons then we could say that the those who did the experiment were morally bad, or just plain idiots and we could, from there give the same attribute to the ZA. sort of like an inherited moral. However, until we actually learn what caused the ZA we have to assume that it is an Amoral thing.
The catastrophic event would probably not have any effect on my thoughts about God nor my thoughts about atheism, I would however rethink what it means to be human, new perceptions would be added.