Yes there are some people that suffer more than others,cause God has left us here in the earth to our will to see how we develop as human beings but in the end he will make shure that people deserve it will get their "reward"
You can't deny that some people suffer more than others. It's not like I don't suffer. But there are people who are worse off than me, who, according to you, will get the same 'ultimate reward' as me.
Yes there are some people that suffer more than others,cause God has left us here in the earth to our will to see how we develop as human beings but in the end he will make shure that people deserve it will get their "reward"
I think this is the spirit that I also would try to keep in such a situation. even if it meant distorting my moral concepts for the sake of my survival. I would try at all costs not give up on human beings.
Adapting would be a necessity for survival. But im not sure having a new outlook on humanity would mean losing a part of it. It could go bad and good but i would like to say that i would never lose my solidarity with my fellow humanbeings.
Do you really believe that you can find "physical" evidence of God's existence? I think this would be a complete waste of time. Since God, i… moren my opinion is not something "material" or something belonging to this reality. and therefore, tangible evidence of it are impossible.
I think if you want to find God, you need to start looking within yourself.
I recognize that god is a being that is not proven with facts, but people put their faith in nontheless. I think that's a bad idea. We don't use faith to leap to such big assumptions when it comes to things other than god, and it doesn't make sense to make an exception. Nothing's wrong with some healthy skepticism.
Some theme I've noticed in this forum is the argument of Science vs. Religion.
As a Christian who has accepted Jesus Christ into my heart… more, I don't really consider myself anything else other than a Christian, meaning that I have accepted Jesus Christ into my heart. (Not trying to be preachy, just clarifying.)
And my favorite subject to learn about right now, is Astronomy. The study of the stars and everything out there beyond Earth, beyond our solar system, beyond everything we know. And I won't lie, the thought of a Supreme Being at the reigns of it all does sometimes seem a bit strange in the midst of everything. I won't lie, my faith has faltered at times in my life when I thought about the vastness of the Universe and Existence. I'm not perfect, no one is, but thinking that there is a God who understands that, and stills loves us and wants to know us, is comforting.
However, if one thinks that this idea is silly, I do understand, … [view original content]
not to be a jerk or anything (just my personal opinion if you disagree than i'm ok with that also not meant to offend you in anyway) but do you expect life to be all sunshine and rainbows? i believe there has to be some bad things so we can learn from them and eventually lead up to an age where the bad things now will be easily overcame and society will finally become sunshine and rainbows, but as I've said i think it will take a long time and a ton of awful things to happen before this can be achieved.
My belief would be confirmed. What do I believe? I believe god exists, I also believe god is a dick. Let's give people free will! And punish… more them for all eternity for not doing what I say. Look, all the humans are acting up and being bad, better drown everything. Building a tower all by yourselves? How cute, let me break that for you, and then make you all speak different languages so you can't build another! Performing the miracle of flight? Well you don't believe in me so now I'll make you fall and break your legs. Gay marriage and abortion is legal now? better create a zombie apocalypse....
Depends on what you believe some say they go to hell and other say they will simply die forever .Also the people that deserve Heaven atleast for me are good people .I know that these may not make sence to you but there are also some things i dont understand from evolution..
Do you really believe that you can find "physical" evidence of God's existence? I think this would be a complete waste of time. Since God, i… moren my opinion is not something "material" or something belonging to this reality. and therefore, tangible evidence of it are impossible.
I think if you want to find God, you need to start looking within yourself.
I recognize that god is a being that is not proven with facts, but people put their faith in nontheless. I think that's a bad idea. We don't use faith to leap to such big assumptions when it comes to things other than god, and it doesn't make sense to make an exception. Nothing's wrong with some healthy skepticism.
I love science! and it is an undeniable need for humanity. but I don't believe that science is the only path available. Science can not go beyond the object, because the very approach creates a limitation.
A scientist will describe a beautiful flower just like a large chain of molecules, cells, fluids, minerals and etc. .. He will unravel the flower until there was nothing but a unrecognizable and microscopic puzzle.
As a quick example, would be the same as classifying the Great Wall of China only by stone blocks of limestone, granite or brick. that's just the "material" approach. But the Great Wall of China has a much nobler meaning and symbolizes Perseverance and Persistence.
Very nice comment and I doubt you'll get dislikes, since the majority of people truly believe in god while at the same time doubting his exi… morestence.
I'd like to warn, that my comment might sound like a Darwin's witness knocking on your door and with every cell in my body I'm trying not to sound intolerant.
Usually, you turn to god when you spiritually need him and since we're all the same sinful and scared little beings in our huge universe, we all need to believe in something, either it's a man with a nice beard and a loving face or just something Divine we can't see, or even ourselves.
When you dive in into science even more, you can't ignore the fact that the theory of creationism sounds too fantastical compared to evolution. You've just seen the Astronomical side, which showed you the little inaccuracies in the Bible. What I'd like to point out here is that you haven't heard the other parts of the story (yet).
I'm sure everyone… [view original content]
1) why is there a hell?
As I've said before. in my opinion. Hell is purely a condition of spiritual/personal imbalance. this is not a "place". therefore, no one made hell because it is not something that was built.
Who made you imperfect?
Imperfection is also not something tangible. is purely a transitional state of every human-being. nobody made me imperfect, this is a condition of ignorance attributed to every living being evolving.
Who gave you the drive to do evil?
Since I am an imperfect person. my inner balance is not perfect, and it leaves me exposed to the lusts and vices of life. makes me corruptible. susceptible to evil. again, no one "gave me" this impulse. this is only a result of my spiritual state.
2) who put the fruit in the Garden?
(Be careful not to take things too literally! ^^) In my opnion the forbidden apple is a symbology. and explains that sin will keep you away from Paradise (Perfect Balance), and will condemn you to Hell (imbalance). since Adam and Eve were corrupted by his own weakness and seduced into sin. they were expelled from Paradise (become unbalanced with themselves).
Despite all. we all have free will. we all have: Choice
It was exactly what I tried to explain. unfortunately the message was not understood correctly!
Eddie_Maiden: "These same people will also, in general, treat this world, the one we are all perceivably in, as if it has zero value or meaning. When faced with non-believers or personal questions against their faith they will say, just as Clem_Everett did, that life then has no meaning. They say this when irregardless of if there is an afterlife there are always tangible effects of one's actions on Earth. If an organ donor gives an organ that saves another persons life, that person surely isn't going to think, "Geez, it really is a shame that my donor lived a meaningless life. I am completely ungrateful, and why shouldn't I be since life is meaningless?"
1 - What I talked about the fact that a "finite" life does not have meaning. is connected to my personal questioning about this concept. I see no purpose in this kind of life.
2 - Your example about the donor is completely misunderstood and inconvenient
3 - My questioning was never motivated by any kind of "threat" that any person, whether a believer or not. has done to me.
Eddie_Maiden: "Believing in an afterlife and acting a certain way only because you think you will be rewarded is not true morality; it's like getting a confession from a torture victim."
You distorted the facts here. I never said that the morality of an afterlife was based on a possible reward that a individual "win" in the end. once more. there was a failure of understanding on your part!
Well, He did say before that the problem is in us. That some people needs religion. He treats it as a behavior that causes justice and it's completely understandable.
Not necessarily imply that you are following some belief. but you can call himself "honorable" and "moral one". if "Being religious" bothers you that much!
Than why be a "religious" person and not just an honorable and moral one? Being religious implies you are following a religion, but to pract… moreice charity, mercy, and good character does not require one, as you already stated, so why attach the connotation?
Nah, if it that fish stuff was bullshit then maybe I might believe but I couldn't really give a fuck, send me to hell all you want, just shows you like seeing people suffer. And I don't deal with psychopaths. Cannibals and shit.
I believe in God and a ZA would never change my faith since I believe God has a plan that we don't understand nor will we ever understand it. For all we know a ZA might be the ultimate test for mankind
No I don't expect life to be sunshine and rainbows and if it was I'm sure some people would still complain, but from what I've read of the bible, it does seem as if god goes out of his way to be a jerk to man kind (at least in the Old Testament anyway, in the new one gods more like "meh, I'm going to go out for a bit, try not to kill each other") I don't want god to be a jerk, but why is it that we know someone like superman is the good guy without being told, but we have to be repeatedly told that god is good. Because the bible shows god doing a lot of things that are simply not nice. I'm not asking for all the pain and suffering to be removed from the world, I'm asking god to at least use basic manners and treat people with respect even if they don't believe in him. A non believer is not disposable and should not be made to suffer in order to strengthen the believers bond with you god. That is biest and you are supposed to be fair!!!
So yea my post has nothing to do with removing all suffering from the world, just a plea for god to be nicer to people like god is supposed to be.
not to be a jerk or anything (just my personal opinion if you disagree than i'm ok with that also not meant to offend you in anyway) but do… more you expect life to be all sunshine and rainbows? i believe there has to be some bad things so we can learn from them and eventually lead up to an age where the bad things now will be easily overcame and society will finally become sunshine and rainbows, but as I've said i think it will take a long time and a ton of awful things to happen before this can be achieved.
Interesting... I'm not sure I understand 100% what you mean; you say spiritual, are you referring to a soul? or a sort of immenent mental state? In which case, there comes the question, what happens to when you die? From what you're saying, it sounds almost psychological, in the sense of 'a living hell.'
I didn't mean to take the fruit literally, just what is the source of evil? It's a silly question, but if you phrase it in terms of spiritual balance and imbalance, from where does the possibility to be imbalanced come from? To return to Adam and Eve, when they were in the Garden before they ate the apple, where they slightly unbalanced, and therefore the temptation to sin was able to reach them? If so, were they created in an unbalanced and therefore imperfect condition? Put in less biblical terms, were humans created imperfect, and if so, does that not insinuate God's imperfect benevolence?
1) why is there a hell?
As I've said before. in my opinion. Hell is purely a condition of spiritual/personal imbalance. this is not a "plac… moree". therefore, no one made hell because it is not something that was built.
Who made you imperfect?
Imperfection is also not something tangible. is purely a transitional state of every human-being. nobody made me imperfect, this is a condition of ignorance attributed to every living being evolving.
Who gave you the drive to do evil?
Since I am an imperfect person. my inner balance is not perfect, and it leaves me exposed to the lusts and vices of life. makes me corruptible. susceptible to evil. again, no one "gave me" this impulse. this is only a result of my spiritual state.
2) who put the fruit in the Garden?
(Be careful not to take things too literally! ^^) In my opnion the forbidden apple is a symbology. and explains that sin will keep you away from Paradise (Perfect Balance), and wil… [view original content]
The mental state would be the translation of what the soul feels. as a "channel" of the spirit. Awareness comes from there, the brain would just be the "tool" of activity awareness. just like a car is a tool for the driver.
After death, the veil is removed. and the soul is freed from the chains of material life. our consciousness awakens to true life and we move on with our evolution. we can continue it in the afterlife, or with the need for a new incarnation in the material plane. (This is a simplified and summarized version of what Spiritism doctrine explains about the afterlife and reincarnation.)
Yes. all living beings are created in the imperfect condition. obviously no one is born knowing everything and all things. and if by chance, a living being were created perfect. this would be a false and brittle condition. as there would be no spiritual merit. would be like a child who is pure by ignorance and not by merit acquired. a child although pure and innocent can still be affected by sin, because he/she was not yet subjected to the tests of life.
Someone who already attained perfect inner connection and self-understanding, is immune to sin. because he/she already have experience and awareness of the vices of the world and learned through countless lives that they are merely passing distractions. this stage is what Spiritism calls: "Second Childhood".
This only reinforces the grace of God. for if he has created us perfect would be deluding ourselves and any judgment on his part would be a contradiction.
Interesting... I'm not sure I understand 100% what you mean; you say spiritual, are you referring to a soul? or a sort of immenent mental st… moreate? In which case, there comes the question, what happens to when you die? From what you're saying, it sounds almost psychological, in the sense of 'a living hell.'
I didn't mean to take the fruit literally, just what is the source of evil? It's a silly question, but if you phrase it in terms of spiritual balance and imbalance, from where does the possibility to be imbalanced come from? To return to Adam and Eve, when they were in the Garden before they ate the apple, where they slightly unbalanced, and therefore the temptation to sin was able to reach them? If so, were they created in an unbalanced and therefore imperfect condition? Put in less biblical terms, were humans created imperfect, and if so, does that not insinuate God's imperfect benevolence?
Science and Religion don't have to be bitter opposites
They don't! Science, from a religious standpoint, can be used to explain what God has done for creation. God can work through doctors and medical professionals in order to help someone recover.
Some theme I've noticed in this forum is the argument of Science vs. Religion.
As a Christian who has accepted Jesus Christ into my heart… more, I don't really consider myself anything else other than a Christian, meaning that I have accepted Jesus Christ into my heart. (Not trying to be preachy, just clarifying.)
And my favorite subject to learn about right now, is Astronomy. The study of the stars and everything out there beyond Earth, beyond our solar system, beyond everything we know. And I won't lie, the thought of a Supreme Being at the reigns of it all does sometimes seem a bit strange in the midst of everything. I won't lie, my faith has faltered at times in my life when I thought about the vastness of the Universe and Existence. I'm not perfect, no one is, but thinking that there is a God who understands that, and stills loves us and wants to know us, is comforting.
However, if one thinks that this idea is silly, I do understand, … [view original content]
Well, said. But honestly, I would do whatever I have to do to survive in a new world like this. Even if that means not trying to save someone or stealing another ones belongings
Very nice comment and I doubt you'll get dislikes, since the majority of people truly believe in god while at the same time doubting his exi… morestence.
I'd like to warn, that my comment might sound like a Darwin's witness knocking on your door and with every cell in my body I'm trying not to sound intolerant.
Usually, you turn to god when you spiritually need him and since we're all the same sinful and scared little beings in our huge universe, we all need to believe in something, either it's a man with a nice beard and a loving face or just something Divine we can't see, or even ourselves.
When you dive in into science even more, you can't ignore the fact that the theory of creationism sounds too fantastical compared to evolution. You've just seen the Astronomical side, which showed you the little inaccuracies in the Bible. What I'd like to point out here is that you haven't heard the other parts of the story (yet).
I'm sure everyone… [view original content]
In a post-apocalyptic world. there is a need to sacrifice part of yourself to survive! the important thing is not to lose self-love, and never stop believing in the human heart. however difficult it may be in a situation like this.
Well, said. But honestly, I would do whatever I have to do to survive in a new world like this. Even if that means not trying to save someone or stealing another ones belongings
Comments
Yes there are some people that suffer more than others,cause God has left us here in the earth to our will to see how we develop as human beings but in the end he will make shure that people deserve it will get their "reward"
And the people who don't 'deserve it' get what? And what constitutes as people who don't deserve it?
It is. you're right. I don't think I need to answer anyone else then! Just kidding :P
thanks for the advice angrykurd!
I think this is the spirit that I also would try to keep in such a situation. even if it meant distorting my moral concepts for the sake of my survival. I would try at all costs not give up on human beings.
Without a doubt. and everyone should have a critical thinking. like you.
You have my like! ^^
not to be a jerk or anything (just my personal opinion if you disagree than i'm ok with that
also not meant to offend you in anyway) but do you expect life to be all sunshine and rainbows? i believe there has to be some bad things so we can learn from them and eventually lead up to an age where the bad things now will be easily overcame and society will finally become sunshine and rainbows, but as I've said i think it will take a long time and a ton of awful things to happen before this can be achieved.
Depends on what you believe some say they go to hell and other say they will simply die forever .Also the people that deserve Heaven atleast for me are good people .I know that these may not make sence to you but there are also some things i dont understand from evolution..
I know what you are talking about i believe in God but i know He won't do everything for me and i have to work if i wanna reach my goals
I love science! and it is an undeniable need for humanity. but I don't believe that science is the only path available. Science can not go beyond the object, because the very approach creates a limitation.
A scientist will describe a beautiful flower just like a large chain of molecules, cells, fluids, minerals and etc. .. He will unravel the flower until there was nothing but a unrecognizable and microscopic puzzle.
As a quick example, would be the same as classifying the Great Wall of China only by stone blocks of limestone, granite or brick. that's just the "material" approach. But the Great Wall of China has a much nobler meaning and symbolizes Perseverance and Persistence.
1) why is there a hell?
As I've said before. in my opinion. Hell is purely a condition of spiritual/personal imbalance. this is not a "place". therefore, no one made hell because it is not something that was built.
Who made you imperfect?
Imperfection is also not something tangible. is purely a transitional state of every human-being. nobody made me imperfect, this is a condition of ignorance attributed to every living being evolving.
Who gave you the drive to do evil?
Since I am an imperfect person. my inner balance is not perfect, and it leaves me exposed to the lusts and vices of life. makes me corruptible. susceptible to evil. again, no one "gave me" this impulse. this is only a result of my spiritual state.
2) who put the fruit in the Garden?
(Be careful not to take things too literally! ^^) In my opnion the forbidden apple is a symbology. and explains that sin will keep you away from Paradise (Perfect Balance), and will condemn you to Hell (imbalance). since Adam and Eve were corrupted by his own weakness and seduced into sin. they were expelled from Paradise (become unbalanced with themselves).
Despite all. we all have free will. we all have: Choice
It was exactly what I tried to explain. unfortunately the message was not understood correctly!
1 - What I talked about the fact that a "finite" life does not have meaning. is connected to my personal questioning about this concept. I see no purpose in this kind of life.
2 - Your example about the donor is completely misunderstood and inconvenient
3 - My questioning was never motivated by any kind of "threat" that any person, whether a believer or not. has done to me.
You distorted the facts here. I never said that the morality of an afterlife was based on a possible reward that a individual "win" in the end. once more. there was a failure of understanding on your part!
Being religious means basically: Devote yourself.
Not necessarily imply that you are following some belief. but you can call himself "honorable" and "moral one". if "Being religious" bothers you that much!
Agreed!
?
I believe in God and a ZA would never change my faith since I believe God has a plan that we don't understand nor will we ever understand it. For all we know a ZA might be the ultimate test for mankind
No I don't expect life to be sunshine and rainbows and if it was I'm sure some people would still complain, but from what I've read of the bible, it does seem as if god goes out of his way to be a jerk to man kind (at least in the Old Testament anyway, in the new one gods more like "meh, I'm going to go out for a bit, try not to kill each other") I don't want god to be a jerk, but why is it that we know someone like superman is the good guy without being told, but we have to be repeatedly told that god is good. Because the bible shows god doing a lot of things that are simply not nice. I'm not asking for all the pain and suffering to be removed from the world, I'm asking god to at least use basic manners and treat people with respect even if they don't believe in him. A non believer is not disposable and should not be made to suffer in order to strengthen the believers bond with you god. That is biest and you are supposed to be fair!!!
So yea my post has nothing to do with removing all suffering from the world, just a plea for god to be nicer to people like god is supposed to be.
Interesting... I'm not sure I understand 100% what you mean; you say spiritual, are you referring to a soul? or a sort of immenent mental state? In which case, there comes the question, what happens to when you die? From what you're saying, it sounds almost psychological, in the sense of 'a living hell.'
I didn't mean to take the fruit literally, just what is the source of evil? It's a silly question, but if you phrase it in terms of spiritual balance and imbalance, from where does the possibility to be imbalanced come from? To return to Adam and Eve, when they were in the Garden before they ate the apple, where they slightly unbalanced, and therefore the temptation to sin was able to reach them? If so, were they created in an unbalanced and therefore imperfect condition? Put in less biblical terms, were humans created imperfect, and if so, does that not insinuate God's imperfect benevolence?
no problem man, let the debate flow!
Yes I'm referring to the soul. : )
The mental state would be the translation of what the soul feels. as a "channel" of the spirit. Awareness comes from there, the brain would just be the "tool" of activity awareness. just like a car is a tool for the driver.
After death, the veil is removed. and the soul is freed from the chains of material life. our consciousness awakens to true life and we move on with our evolution. we can continue it in the afterlife, or with the need for a new incarnation in the material plane. (This is a simplified and summarized version of what Spiritism doctrine explains about the afterlife and reincarnation.)
Yes. all living beings are created in the imperfect condition. obviously no one is born knowing everything and all things. and if by chance, a living being were created perfect. this would be a false and brittle condition. as there would be no spiritual merit. would be like a child who is pure by ignorance and not by merit acquired. a child although pure and innocent can still be affected by sin, because he/she was not yet subjected to the tests of life.
Someone who already attained perfect inner connection and self-understanding, is immune to sin. because he/she already have experience and awareness of the vices of the world and learned through countless lives that they are merely passing distractions. this stage is what Spiritism calls: "Second Childhood".
This only reinforces the grace of God. for if he has created us perfect would be deluding ourselves and any judgment on his part would be a contradiction.
They don't! Science, from a religious standpoint, can be used to explain what God has done for creation. God can work through doctors and medical professionals in order to help someone recover.
Well, said. But honestly, I would do whatever I have to do to survive in a new world like this. Even if that means not trying to save someone or stealing another ones belongings
Me too!
In a post-apocalyptic world. there is a need to sacrifice part of yourself to survive! the important thing is not to lose self-love, and never stop believing in the human heart. however difficult it may be in a situation like this.