A lot of people seem to take the mindset when Jane and Kenny first fight as the round that decides who guilty when it should be the aftermath of fight we should decide who is guilty here. Listen, if Jane really lost the baby in an accident, then Kenny will be the one at fault. But in truth, Jane actually lied to Kenny to show Clem his real colors Whlie in truth we've already know. In season 2, we've saw Kenny viciously lanced out on Clem when Sarita died. Also, we've saw him lanced out on Mike back in Howe's. So we already know that Kenny is unstable, even though he is trying his best. But we also know he been trying to control his behavior, he just needs help, which Jane wasn't really do well in, cause well, she wanted us to see his colors. On another note, Jane at anytime during the fight could have said "Oh by the way Kenny, I lied about the baby being dead, he is actually alive!" For example, shortly after Kenny get cut, there is a brief moment of break up in the fight where Jane could have said the Baby's true status. Plus, if you do shoot Kenny, he admits he is the wrong person in the fight, but the only thing is, he is not. Jane brought on her own demise when she said the baby was dead, she knew what Kenny was capable of and still went for it. Also, she obviously wants Kenny dead cause of her trying to push in his bad eyes or trying to slice and dice him with her knife. Anyway, in that situation Jane is at fault.
Molly's ninja powers, Clementine able to perform feats way beyond her age and frame capacities (inb4 muh adrenaline), skinny Jane 'man'handling larger and heavier Kenny (not even mentioning the strength difference between males and females because I know we're being watched by easily triggered persons), etc, etc...
Kenny's abilities as displayed through the games are waaay more reasonable than a lot of characters'.
She was fine with not abandoning you as long as you went where she wanted you to go. Just like Kenny, I suppose, we all know he isn't any better at not getting his own way. I was always headed for Savanah though. Jane didn't respect that. That was where I was going to meet Crista, the woman that took care of Clem for 2 YEARS. If Jane won't help me then I'll take the ending that does.
She wasn't there but that's not the point. I had to try.
And, again, Jane may have started out defensive and just trying to show that Kenny was crazy (and I honestly might have agreed with that if it wasn't for...) but the video makes it pretty clear that this fight, which SHE provoked, turned into one based on mutual anger/hatred and, in the end, they BOTH wanted to kill each other.
I'm not a Kenny hater, I just don't see him doing the right thing in that episode. Jane pushed you out of the way because you were holding h… moreer back. I'd have done the exact same thing. She's almost 99% like me. She promised me that she will never abandon me again.
Also, Kenny's idea of respect bugged me.
Also, Jane's test to Kenny's patience was pretty predictable. I predicted it all along ever since she told me to trust her. Jane and My Clem are a perfect harmony. I almost cried when I had to shoot Kenny, We've been through a lot together.
She was fine with not abandoning you as long as you went where she wanted you to go. Just like Kenny, I suppose, we all know he isn't any be… moretter at not getting his own way. I was always headed for Savanah though. Jane didn't respect that. That was where I was going to meet Crista, the woman that took care of Clem for 2 YEARS. If Jane won't help me then I'll take the ending that does.
She wasn't there but that's not the point. I had to try.
And, again, Jane may have started out defensive and just trying to show that Kenny was crazy (and I honestly might have agreed with that if it wasn't for...) but the video makes it pretty clear that this fight, which SHE provoked, turned into one based on mutual anger/hatred and, in the end, they BOTH wanted to kill each other.
Which could be said about a lot of characters.
Molly's ninja powers, Clementine able to perform feats way beyond her age and frame capaci… moreties (inb4 muh adrenaline), skinny Jane 'man'handling larger and heavier Kenny (not even mentioning the strength difference between males and females because I know we're being watched by easily triggered persons), etc, etc...
Kenny's abilities as displayed through the games are waaay more reasonable than a lot of characters'.
If you don't stand in her way, She will back down. Jane is as defensive as me as well, She doesn't like to be controlled or ruled, I believe she felt like she's on her own now, You and Kenny are against her. That's why she did it.
Who? Carver? I think almost all of us can agree that Carver needed to be killed so he could no longer hunt/ hurt the group. Kenny's methods were gruesome, but that's besides the point.
He would have killed Arvo had the others not been around to prevent it.
Why on earth would you jump to that conclusion? There is nothing solid for that to stand on. Punching him three times in the face = trying to kill him? What?
It's not a stretch to say that he was trying to kill Jane
Yes it is, at least in regards to how the fight started. Looking at his actions alone you can tell that he wasn't trying to kill her. Like I said before, physical violence doesn't = trying to kill someone. Its like saying Kenny was trying to kill Lee back on the train in Season One. I suppose you also think he was trying to kill Mike back in Episode Three?
It doesn't seem very logical to ignore past patterns of behavior in assessing a persons current behavior.
Yes, but you're doing a massive amount of generalizing and trying to compare situations when there is nothing to compare it to.
He has killed in the past. He would have killed Arvo had the others not been around to prevent it. It's not a stretch to say that he was try… moreing to kill Jane. It doesn't seem very logical to ignore past patterns of behavior in assessing a persons current behavior.
You're doing an awful lot to find a rationalization to defend Kenny's irrational, erratic, indefensible violent behavior. You're a big Kenny fan, I get it. You want to think he was objectively correct in his actions and that Jane had it coming.
I saw the writing on the wall that Kenny was dangerous from the beginning of episode 4. I saw it in every interaction with him. I knew it was going to culminate in a grand act of violence. If you didn't see that it's because you didn't want to see it.
He has killed in the past.
Who? Carver? I think almost all of us can agree that Carver needed to be killed so he could no longer hun… moret/ hurt the group. Kenny's methods were gruesome, but that's besides the point.
He would have killed Arvo had the others not been around to prevent it.
Why on earth would you jump to that conclusion? There is nothing solid for that to stand on. Punching him three times in the face = trying to kill him? What?
It's not a stretch to say that he was trying to kill Jane
Yes it is, at least in regards to how the fight started. Looking at his actions alone you can tell that he wasn't trying to kill her. Like I said before, physical violence doesn't = trying to kill someone. Its like saying Kenny was trying to kill Lee back on the train in Season One. I suppose you also think he was trying to kill Mike back in Episode Three?
It doesn't seem very logical to ignore past patterns of… [view original content]
Just skip to around 3:40
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPxjMurr6ms
And if that's not enough, there's also this version - go to around … more4:20
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsMurzkzUqg
Now I didn't get these events, but someone did - and that's a serious case of writer's favourite going on.
Because he never picked the option to have Clem to stand between them. Your point was that if she did stand between them, Kenny will push her out of the way, however, if you stop Jane instead, she does the same thing. So it's not a valid argument if you are trying to show one as being more sane then the other.
Fact is, neither one is thinking anything other then how to kill the other at this point. If Jane had an ounce of rationality in her left, she would have mentioned that the baby was alive but she was too caught up in the fight to stick with her plan. So one of them had to die.
At first I chose to be on Jane's side because of how extreme Kenny reacted but I missed Kenny so much and seeing how manipulative she was, I could see she was a psychopath and would only end up betraying Clementine later on (in the next season or whatever). I forgave her but hated my choice so I went back. I was at peace with my choice of siding with Kenny and leaving with him too.
I don't know how anyone with a rational mind could back Kenny when he was trying to commit cold blooded murder. He's no worse than Lily or Carver at that point and only YOU can save Kenny from fully becoming those monsters by shooting him and saving Jane.
The only thing I didnt like about this choice was that I truly wanted to pick Kenny but feared that they wouldnt find the baby without Jane. She was a fucking Crazy bitch for doing that but now I have even more regret for leaving her and having Clem fend for herself with AJ. (though there was an edge of badassness with Clem facing a herd at the end the, sadness cut deeper.)
I actually dont like Kenny but after what Jane pulled it was just a complete fucked up situation. It was a brilliantly planned scenario I give TTG that. Now that I know they find the baby in either case Im so tempted to rewind.
I dont see how anyone can just turn away and let Kenny just stab Jane to death. She was right about him. The whole episode he was melting down. It didnt take much to make him want to fight. And that baby was not his just because he got super attached to him super quickly. Im not saying what Jane did was right, it was dangerous, but Kenny was a bomb set to go off just like she said.
It happened to me. It's up to you to believe it or not.
Try not to engage in the fight, Try To actually listen to Jane and stay away, That's what i did.
You're talking about the start of the fight. I know she sheaths her weapons then, but that isn't the instance we're talking about. We're talking about when they are outside of the shelter after Jane slashed Kenny's stomach and he was retreating backwards. She slashes and stabs at him no matter what you do.
I literally did everything you could do in that situation. Like I said, I did all options. She slashes and stabs at him no matter what. Unless you can somehow magically get the game to do something different for you, I'm really thinking you're confused or not thinking of the same situation.
It happened to me. It's up to you to believe it or not.
Try not to engage in the fight, Try To actually listen to Jane and stay away, That's what i did.
A lot of people seem to take the mindset when Jane and Kenny first fight as the round that decides who guilty when it should be the aftermat… moreh of fight we should decide who is guilty here. Listen, if Jane really lost the baby in an accident, then Kenny will be the one at fault. But in truth, Jane actually lied to Kenny to show Clem his real colors Whlie in truth we've already know. In season 2, we've saw Kenny viciously lanced out on Clem when Sarita died. Also, we've saw him lanced out on Mike back in Howe's. So we already know that Kenny is unstable, even though he is trying his best. But we also know he been trying to control his behavior, he just needs help, which Jane wasn't really do well in, cause well, she wanted us to see his colors. On another note, Jane at anytime during the fight could have said "Oh by the way Kenny, I lied about the baby being dead, he is actually alive!" For example, shortly after Kenny get cut, there is a brief … [view original content]
Seriously though, I'm all for good debates, I don't mean to be rude, But the simple idea that you just don't accept any other ideas rather than your own is pretty annoying. You can't jsut state your opinions as facts.
My point was that Jane didn't start the fight. Kenny can't just go ahead hitting her and expecting no retaliation. Specially after the latest tensions between the two of them.
You're talking about the start of the fight. I know she sheaths her weapons then, but that isn't the instance we're talking about. We're tal… moreking about when they are outside of the shelter after Jane slashed Kenny's stomach and he was retreating backwards. She slashes and stabs at him no matter what you do.
I shoot Kenny I really regreat this... but it was one of them, and in the end, them both were the only people that REALLY cared about Clem, the others were just some nice people walking around.
You didn't address any of my points at all. Implying that I'm biased and then walking away without actually explaining yourself doesn't make me incorrect by any measure.
You're doing an awful lot to find a rationalization to defend Kenny's irrational, erratic, indefensible violent behavior. You're a big Kenny… more fan, I get it. You want to think he was objectively correct in his actions and that Jane had it coming.
I saw the writing on the wall that Kenny was dangerous from the beginning of episode 4. I saw it in every interaction with him. I knew it was going to culminate in a grand act of violence. If you didn't see that it's because you didn't want to see it.
This is my absolute final word on the matter.
She did manipulate him and it proved her point that Kenny has reached a point where he is too dangerous to be around.
She clearly manipulated him. Its not even debatable. Obviously the baby wasn't actually dead.
Kenny was too dangerous to be around? Funny, because if she had just tagged along instead of instigating a showdown, all three of them would have safely arrived in Wellington. Have you even seen the Kenny ending? If you haven't, take a look. It kind of proves you wrong.
She witnessed him brutally kill Carver - Carver deserved to die, sure, but Kenny did it in such a brutal fashion and he felt no remorse for it. He displayed incredible mental instability where he could be set off at any moment.
Its called revenge... and Carver needed to be killed anyway. It doesn't mean the guy was mentally unstable, that is just your interpretation.
He brutalized Arvo who had just lost his family and couldn't understand what Kenny was saying.
Aw, poor innocent Arvo. Really, Arvo had just led his group to attack/ rob Clem's group. Its honestly a miracle that the group sustained zero casualties from that showdown. Luke got pretty injured though. Arvo then led the group on a long pointless journey for a can of chili, and Luke died in the process. So I think Kenny punching him in the face three times was kind of a justified response when Arvo decided to insult him... considering all the harm that Arvo had caused the group. He was a scumbag.
If I didn't intervene he would have probably killed Arvo.
Nothing to base that on at all.
Then when the group decided against his plan he flipped out with a complete disregard for everyone - he was not a team player, never has been.
Now you're just going off topic..
All of his behavior leading to that point demonstrated that he was violent and mentally unstable. He was dangerous to be around.
Nope. There was literally nothing that proved he was ever mentally unstable. Was he angry and a little bitter? Yeah. Unstable? No. Until you actually provide some examples that shows him to be legitimately unstable, there is really nothing for the argument to stand on.
There is no way in hell without Mike and Bonnie backing up Jane and Clem that he would ever listen to them for any reason - he'd probably end up using his usual threatening demeanor to coerce them into following him.
Kenny never coerces people into doing anything. Seriously, I would like to see one example. Scratch that, I want to see multiple examples, considering you're saying it is supposedly his usual demeanor.
He was a threat that needed to be confronted.
Nope. Again, if he was never confronted everyone would have ended up at Wellington all fine and dandy. Who knows what would have happened after that, but at least his plan would have worked.
Confront him on her terms and he did exactly what was expected - he tried to murder her without even considering the idea that she might be innocent.
No, he tried to murder her after she made it clear that her intentions were to kill him. Until she whips our her knife on him, he does not even attempt to do anything remotely lethal to her. He just pins her to the wall... just like he did to Mike in Episode Three.
You're also ignoring the fact that he had plenty of reason to believe that she was not innocent. Especially since she apparently could not do anything to explain the situation. She was intentionally being vague and shady. She had to be in order to get the desired reaction. She couldn't just come out and say that she killed the baby, as that would turn Clem away. She did the next best thing.
He didn't care if she was innocent. He just wanted to kill her.
If you watch the scene where Kenny kills her, you will see that this is untrue. He explicitly states that he only got "fired up" because he legitimately believed that she had killed the baby.
She did manipulate him and it proved her point that Kenny has reached a point where he is too dangerous to be around.
She witnessed him b… morerutally kill Carver - Carver deserved to die, sure, but Kenny did it in such a brutal fashion and he felt no remorse for it. He displayed incredible mental instability where he could be set off at any moment. He brutalized Arvo who had just lost his family and couldn't understand what Kenny was saying. If I didn't intervene he would have probably killed Arvo. Then when the group decided against his plan he flipped out with a complete disregard for everyone - he was not a team player, never has been.
All of his behavior leading to that point demonstrated that he was violent and mentally unstable. He was dangerous to be around. There is no way in hell without Mike and Bonnie backing up Jane and Clem that he would ever listen to them for any reason - he'd probably end up using his usual threatening demean… [view original content]
I'm not saying whether she had justification for her actions or not. I was simply saying that wasn't just defending herself (someone had said that she was mainly only defending herself). She took it much further than that.
Seriously though, I'm all for good debates, I don't mean to be rude, But the simple idea that you just don't accept any other ideas rather than your own is pretty annoying. You can't jsut state your opinions as facts.
I'm not doing that at all. I'm just telling you that I went back and tried literally every option and didn't get the supposed result that you did. That is why I want proof. Maybe you should just go back replay the scene.. because I really think you're confused.
My point was that Jane didn't start the fight. Kenny can't just go ahead hitting her and expecting no retaliation. Specially after the latest tensions between the two of them.
Only saying that wasn't just straight up defending herself.
Because he attacked her prior to that??
Seriously though, I'm all for good debates, I don't mean to be rude, But the simple idea that you… more just don't accept any other ideas rather than your own is pretty annoying. You can't jsut state your opinions as facts.
My point was that Jane didn't start the fight. Kenny can't just go ahead hitting her and expecting no retaliation. Specially after the latest tensions between the two of them.
Jane was looking for a fight and got one. Killing Jane was what Kenny needed to get back to himself he was broken and his situation was getting worse. After killing Jane and finding AJ safe we finally see Kenny back to his old self and the moment we reach Wellington together and we have to leave him is even sadder than when Lee died. Picking jane and killing Kenny basically means that you want to forget about your past and season 1 because Kenny was Lees friend and even agreed to help Lee find Clementine. I can't see how anybody would see the right thing in shooting Kenny and going with the girl who wants to save her own skin.
I saved Jane, and i regret only that she didn't go to Wellington
Jane is better than Kenny, cause Jane knows how to survive and isn't broken like Kenny
TeamJane xD
It doesn't really matter if the baby wasn't his. He was attached to him, and that is all that matters. He was basically a protective parent. He helped bring the baby into the world, and he wanted to make sure it had every chance to make it. Of course he completely flipped out when Jane tried to trick him into thinking that she had maybe killed him.
I mean really, it took something that dramatic and twisted in order to set him off. Its really not fair. If Jane would not have instigated that fight, they all would have made it to Wellington.
And come on KCohere, you always have my back when it comes to Snow, you gotta get on board with me here
I dont see how anyone can just turn away and let Kenny just stab Jane to death. She was right about him. The whole episode he was melting do… morewn. It didnt take much to make him want to fight. And that baby was not his just because he got super attached to him super quickly. Im not saying what Jane did was right, it was dangerous, but Kenny was a bomb set to go off just like she said.
Really. The name of two characters together in one title automatically means that there is going to be a conflict? You made that connection entirely on your own, bud. For all you know, I could have just been talking about both characters, and you had no way of knowing what I would have been talking about.
Its kind of a joke that you say you're reporting me, and then go onto to launch a baseless insult. Truly a good job on that one..
You don't shoot Kenny in the head if you help Jane. Also, Kenny wants you to shoot him saying, "You made the right choice." There is never a better ending to the Walking Dead, but for Kenny, this seemed the best of all choices.
You don't think shooting Kenny in the head was evil...? After Jane maniuplated him into a fight and then tried to kill him?
I guess looking away was kind of bad too, but it beats the alternative.
Sorry but don't ask me to defend Kenny's actions, although in this episode, he was showing more that he can be a decent man sometimes. I appreciated that he apologized to Clementine and was being kinder to her. His rage is just all consuming and his blind stubbornness is frustrating. He had been beating Arvo throughout the whole episode and his violence was growing. I think Jane chose that method because it would get him to explode quicker but he was already getting there on his own. There was no way all four of them were going to get to Wellington together. That violent argument in the truck would have gotten worse. And the reason I object to calling the baby Kenny's is because it feels too much like the baby's parents were killed off just so he could have him.
It doesn't really matter if the baby wasn't his. He was attached to him, and that is all that matters. He was basically a protective parent.… more He helped bring the baby into the world, and he wanted to make sure it had every chance to make it. Of course he completely flipped out when Jane tried to trick him into thinking that she had maybe killed him.
I mean really, it took something that dramatic and twisted in order to set him off. Its really not fair. If Jane would not have instigated that fight, they all would have made it to Wellington.
And come on KCohere, you always have my back when it comes to Snow, you gotta get on board with me here
I understand being a bit rough with Arvo. He was a terrible person that almost got the entire group killed. He then debatably had a hand in causing Luke to die, and led the group on a long pointless journey for a couple of cans of food.
I think Jane chose that method because it would get him to explode quicker but he was already getting there on his own.
That isn't very fair though. Doing something horrible to someone in order to get them to explode so you can have an excuse to get rid of them is just wrong. We have no way of knowing how things would have turned out if Jane had not instigated that fight.
There was no way all four of them were going to get to Wellington together. That violent argument in the truck would have gotten worse.
I guess it depends if Jane was willing to get on board with Kenny's plan or not. If she did come around and decided to go with him though, then things could very well have been fine.
And the reason I object to calling the baby Kenny's is because it feels too much like the baby's parents were killed off just so he could have him.
Kenny didn't have any control of that though. Either way, he is the one looking after the baby now, and he cares about it very much.
Sorry but don't ask me to defend Kenny's actions, although in this episode, he was showing more that he can be a decent man sometimes. I app… morereciated that he apologized to Clementine and was being kinder to her. His rage is just all consuming and his blind stubbornness is frustrating. He had been beating Arvo throughout the whole episode and his violence was growing. I think Jane chose that method because it would get him to explode quicker but he was already getting there on his own. There was no way all four of them were going to get to Wellington together. That violent argument in the truck would have gotten worse. And the reason I object to calling the baby Kenny's is because it feels too much like the baby's parents were killed off just so he could have him.
Jane have her ideal of survival: do not trust people right away...
Think about it: Kenny is broken! What he will do if the baby dies?....
I like Jane because she doesn't matter if the baby dies!! (it's not that I do not care of the child, indeed .... but if it dies, you can not do anything!)
Well to be honest while I see them both at fault Jane did seem to want to fight to the death she brings out a knife. Slashes Kenny with it. And at no point tries to say the baby is alive. She makes no attempt to bring a stop to the fight. I mean if she just wanted to show Clementine how Kenny is why keep the fight going till one of them is dead? She could have tried to stop it and used what had happened to tell Clementine that she was right about Kenny. If she really didn't want it to go that far why would she not? I have to wonder if she wanted Kenny dead and to use that he went after her after she told him the baby was dead as an excuse to justify it. Now I'm one to admit they both had faults but I don't really trust Jane. She seems to want to be a bit too manipulative in her actions.
Comments
A lot of people seem to take the mindset when Jane and Kenny first fight as the round that decides who guilty when it should be the aftermath of fight we should decide who is guilty here. Listen, if Jane really lost the baby in an accident, then Kenny will be the one at fault. But in truth, Jane actually lied to Kenny to show Clem his real colors Whlie in truth we've already know. In season 2, we've saw Kenny viciously lanced out on Clem when Sarita died. Also, we've saw him lanced out on Mike back in Howe's. So we already know that Kenny is unstable, even though he is trying his best. But we also know he been trying to control his behavior, he just needs help, which Jane wasn't really do well in, cause well, she wanted us to see his colors. On another note, Jane at anytime during the fight could have said "Oh by the way Kenny, I lied about the baby being dead, he is actually alive!" For example, shortly after Kenny get cut, there is a brief moment of break up in the fight where Jane could have said the Baby's true status. Plus, if you do shoot Kenny, he admits he is the wrong person in the fight, but the only thing is, he is not. Jane brought on her own demise when she said the baby was dead, she knew what Kenny was capable of and still went for it. Also, she obviously wants Kenny dead cause of her trying to push in his bad eyes or trying to slice and dice him with her knife. Anyway, in that situation Jane is at fault.
Which could be said about a lot of characters.
Molly's ninja powers, Clementine able to perform feats way beyond her age and frame capacities (inb4 muh adrenaline), skinny Jane 'man'handling larger and heavier Kenny (not even mentioning the strength difference between males and females because I know we're being watched by easily triggered persons), etc, etc...
Kenny's abilities as displayed through the games are waaay more reasonable than a lot of characters'.
She was fine with not abandoning you as long as you went where she wanted you to go. Just like Kenny, I suppose, we all know he isn't any better at not getting his own way. I was always headed for Savanah though. Jane didn't respect that. That was where I was going to meet Crista, the woman that took care of Clem for 2 YEARS. If Jane won't help me then I'll take the ending that does.
She wasn't there but that's not the point. I had to try.
And, again, Jane may have started out defensive and just trying to show that Kenny was crazy (and I honestly might have agreed with that if it wasn't for...) but the video makes it pretty clear that this fight, which SHE provoked, turned into one based on mutual anger/hatred and, in the end, they BOTH wanted to kill each other.
I don't see a point in repeating what i just said, Specially when I'm emotionally tense, Just like now.
Just skip to around 3:40
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPxjMurr6ms
And if that's not enough, there's also this version - go to around 4:20
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsMurzkzUqg
Now I didn't get these events, but someone did - and that's a serious case of writer's favourite going on.
No, she does not back down. She slashes and stabs at Kenny (while hes backing off) no matter what you do.
Nope. "My" Jane was about to put the knife back in her pocket, When she almost put it back, Kenny attacked her causing her to slash and stab him.
Who? Carver? I think almost all of us can agree that Carver needed to be killed so he could no longer hunt/ hurt the group. Kenny's methods were gruesome, but that's besides the point.
Why on earth would you jump to that conclusion? There is nothing solid for that to stand on. Punching him three times in the face = trying to kill him? What?
Yes it is, at least in regards to how the fight started. Looking at his actions alone you can tell that he wasn't trying to kill her. Like I said before, physical violence doesn't = trying to kill someone. Its like saying Kenny was trying to kill Lee back on the train in Season One. I suppose you also think he was trying to kill Mike back in Episode Three?
Yes, but you're doing a massive amount of generalizing and trying to compare situations when there is nothing to compare it to.
You're doing an awful lot to find a rationalization to defend Kenny's irrational, erratic, indefensible violent behavior. You're a big Kenny fan, I get it. You want to think he was objectively correct in his actions and that Jane had it coming.
I saw the writing on the wall that Kenny was dangerous from the beginning of episode 4. I saw it in every interaction with him. I knew it was going to culminate in a grand act of violence. If you didn't see that it's because you didn't want to see it.
This is my absolute final word on the matter.
Here we go again...
It's 4:55 am here in France and I'm too tired for this shit.
Really, all the talk of Kenny changing and becoming like Carver by Jane is invalidated by his Wellington ending.
He was still a good man deep down.
Kenny to Lee back in EP2, if Lee feeds the kids: "You thought about the kids before you thought about yourself. That's what a real man does."
Don't get me wrong, I like Jane, but she was not right about him.
Because he never picked the option to have Clem to stand between them. Your point was that if she did stand between them, Kenny will push her out of the way, however, if you stop Jane instead, she does the same thing. So it's not a valid argument if you are trying to show one as being more sane then the other.
Fact is, neither one is thinking anything other then how to kill the other at this point. If Jane had an ounce of rationality in her left, she would have mentioned that the baby was alive but she was too caught up in the fight to stick with her plan. So one of them had to die.
At first I chose to be on Jane's side because of how extreme Kenny reacted but I missed Kenny so much and seeing how manipulative she was, I could see she was a psychopath and would only end up betraying Clementine later on (in the next season or whatever). I forgave her but hated my choice so I went back. I was at peace with my choice of siding with Kenny and leaving with him too.
Nah. I tried every option. No matter what choice you choose there, she still tries to stab and slash at him. She does not try to sheath her weapon.
It happened to me. It's up to you to believe it or not.
Try not to engage in the fight, Try To actually listen to Jane and stay away, That's what i did.
I don't know how anyone with a rational mind could back Kenny when he was trying to commit cold blooded murder. He's no worse than Lily or Carver at that point and only YOU can save Kenny from fully becoming those monsters by shooting him and saving Jane.
The only thing I didnt like about this choice was that I truly wanted to pick Kenny but feared that they wouldnt find the baby without Jane. She was a fucking Crazy bitch for doing that but now I have even more regret for leaving her and having Clem fend for herself with AJ. (though there was an edge of badassness with Clem facing a herd at the end the, sadness cut deeper.)
I actually dont like Kenny but after what Jane pulled it was just a complete fucked up situation. It was a brilliantly planned scenario I give TTG that. Now that I know they find the baby in either case Im so tempted to rewind.
I dont see how anyone can just turn away and let Kenny just stab Jane to death. She was right about him. The whole episode he was melting down. It didnt take much to make him want to fight. And that baby was not his just because he got super attached to him super quickly. Im not saying what Jane did was right, it was dangerous, but Kenny was a bomb set to go off just like she said.
Same for me. She sheathed her knife and told Kenny not to come near her before he attacked.
YES! Thank you, There, KCohere.
You're talking about the start of the fight. I know she sheaths her weapons then, but that isn't the instance we're talking about. We're talking about when they are outside of the shelter after Jane slashed Kenny's stomach and he was retreating backwards. She slashes and stabs at him no matter what you do.
I literally did everything you could do in that situation. Like I said, I did all options. She slashes and stabs at him no matter what. Unless you can somehow magically get the game to do something different for you, I'm really thinking you're confused or not thinking of the same situation.
Do you have any proof?
You're naive if you believe Kenny, when he's hulking out, would have believed Jane when he didn't even want to hear her side.
Because he attacked her prior to that??
Seriously though, I'm all for good debates, I don't mean to be rude, But the simple idea that you just don't accept any other ideas rather than your own is pretty annoying. You can't jsut state your opinions as facts.
My point was that Jane didn't start the fight. Kenny can't just go ahead hitting her and expecting no retaliation. Specially after the latest tensions between the two of them.
I shoot Kenny
I really regreat this... but it was one of them, and in the end, them both were the only people that REALLY cared about Clem, the others were just some nice people walking around.
You didn't address any of my points at all. Implying that I'm biased and then walking away without actually explaining yourself doesn't make me incorrect by any measure.
She clearly manipulated him. Its not even debatable. Obviously the baby wasn't actually dead.
Kenny was too dangerous to be around? Funny, because if she had just tagged along instead of instigating a showdown, all three of them would have safely arrived in Wellington. Have you even seen the Kenny ending? If you haven't, take a look. It kind of proves you wrong.
Its called revenge... and Carver needed to be killed anyway. It doesn't mean the guy was mentally unstable, that is just your interpretation.
Aw, poor innocent Arvo. Really, Arvo had just led his group to attack/ rob Clem's group. Its honestly a miracle that the group sustained zero casualties from that showdown. Luke got pretty injured though. Arvo then led the group on a long pointless journey for a can of chili, and Luke died in the process. So I think Kenny punching him in the face three times was kind of a justified response when Arvo decided to insult him... considering all the harm that Arvo had caused the group. He was a scumbag.
Nothing to base that on at all.
Now you're just going off topic..
Nope. There was literally nothing that proved he was ever mentally unstable. Was he angry and a little bitter? Yeah. Unstable? No. Until you actually provide some examples that shows him to be legitimately unstable, there is really nothing for the argument to stand on.
Kenny never coerces people into doing anything. Seriously, I would like to see one example. Scratch that, I want to see multiple examples, considering you're saying it is supposedly his usual demeanor.
Nope. Again, if he was never confronted everyone would have ended up at Wellington all fine and dandy. Who knows what would have happened after that, but at least his plan would have worked.
No, he tried to murder her after she made it clear that her intentions were to kill him. Until she whips our her knife on him, he does not even attempt to do anything remotely lethal to her. He just pins her to the wall... just like he did to Mike in Episode Three.
You're also ignoring the fact that he had plenty of reason to believe that she was not innocent. Especially since she apparently could not do anything to explain the situation. She was intentionally being vague and shady. She had to be in order to get the desired reaction. She couldn't just come out and say that she killed the baby, as that would turn Clem away. She did the next best thing.
If you watch the scene where Kenny kills her, you will see that this is untrue. He explicitly states that he only got "fired up" because he legitimately believed that she had killed the baby.
I'm not saying whether she had justification for her actions or not. I was simply saying that wasn't just defending herself (someone had said that she was mainly only defending herself). She took it much further than that.
I'm not doing that at all. I'm just telling you that I went back and tried literally every option and didn't get the supposed result that you did. That is why I want proof. Maybe you should just go back replay the scene.. because I really think you're confused.
Only saying that wasn't just straight up defending herself.
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Jane was looking for a fight and got one. Killing Jane was what Kenny needed to get back to himself he was broken and his situation was getting worse. After killing Jane and finding AJ safe we finally see Kenny back to his old self and the moment we reach Wellington together and we have to leave him is even sadder than when Lee died. Picking jane and killing Kenny basically means that you want to forget about your past and season 1 because Kenny was Lees friend and even agreed to help Lee find Clementine. I can't see how anybody would see the right thing in shooting Kenny and going with the girl who wants to save her own skin.
Are you talking about the situation at the very start of the fight...? Because that is the only time she sheaths her weapon.
It doesn't really matter if the baby wasn't his. He was attached to him, and that is all that matters. He was basically a protective parent. He helped bring the baby into the world, and he wanted to make sure it had every chance to make it. Of course he completely flipped out when Jane tried to trick him into thinking that she had maybe killed him.
I mean really, it took something that dramatic and twisted in order to set him off. Its really not fair. If Jane would not have instigated that fight, they all would have made it to Wellington.
And come on KCohere, you always have my back when it comes to Snow, you gotta get on board with me here
Really. The name of two characters together in one title automatically means that there is going to be a conflict? You made that connection entirely on your own, bud. For all you know, I could have just been talking about both characters, and you had no way of knowing what I would have been talking about.
Its kind of a joke that you say you're reporting me, and then go onto to launch a baseless insult. Truly a good job on that one..
You don't shoot Kenny in the head if you help Jane. Also, Kenny wants you to shoot him saying, "You made the right choice." There is never a better ending to the Walking Dead, but for Kenny, this seemed the best of all choices.
Sorry but don't ask me to defend Kenny's actions, although in this episode, he was showing more that he can be a decent man sometimes. I appreciated that he apologized to Clementine and was being kinder to her. His rage is just all consuming and his blind stubbornness is frustrating. He had been beating Arvo throughout the whole episode and his violence was growing. I think Jane chose that method because it would get him to explode quicker but he was already getting there on his own. There was no way all four of them were going to get to Wellington together. That violent argument in the truck would have gotten worse. And the reason I object to calling the baby Kenny's is because it feels too much like the baby's parents were killed off just so he could have him.
Yeah, since two names automatically assumes conflict.
I understand being a bit rough with Arvo. He was a terrible person that almost got the entire group killed. He then debatably had a hand in causing Luke to die, and led the group on a long pointless journey for a couple of cans of food.
That isn't very fair though. Doing something horrible to someone in order to get them to explode so you can have an excuse to get rid of them is just wrong. We have no way of knowing how things would have turned out if Jane had not instigated that fight.
I guess it depends if Jane was willing to get on board with Kenny's plan or not. If she did come around and decided to go with him though, then things could very well have been fine.
Kenny didn't have any control of that though. Either way, he is the one looking after the baby now, and he cares about it very much.
You know what i mean...
Jane have her ideal of survival: do not trust people right away...
Think about it: Kenny is broken! What he will do if the baby dies?....
I like Jane because she doesn't matter if the baby dies!! (it's not that I do not care of the child, indeed .... but if it dies, you can not do anything!)
Well to be honest while I see them both at fault Jane did seem to want to fight to the death she brings out a knife. Slashes Kenny with it. And at no point tries to say the baby is alive. She makes no attempt to bring a stop to the fight. I mean if she just wanted to show Clementine how Kenny is why keep the fight going till one of them is dead? She could have tried to stop it and used what had happened to tell Clementine that she was right about Kenny. If she really didn't want it to go that far why would she not? I have to wonder if she wanted Kenny dead and to use that he went after her after she told him the baby was dead as an excuse to justify it. Now I'm one to admit they both had faults but I don't really trust Jane. She seems to want to be a bit too manipulative in her actions.