I didn't like the dragging either (though I don't know if I could get used to it, or if there was a better way to do it) and found myself using the arrow keys more often than not. I don't truly hate using the arrow keys, though I do prefer point n click.
I'll admit, I haven't heard Telltale's reasons as to why they stopped using point and click. I also don't know much about how games are made, so perhaps the issue is bigger than I understand. But even so, the principle of it all has always bothered me. The WASD key movement are much more improved than they used to be, granted. But why would a company bring back a feature that the majority of the people hate? Perhaps there are difficulties, but if it is possible to do it, shouldn't they take the time to do it? It seems inconsiderate to not take the time to do so when most of their fans are opposed to it.
But perhaps this is one of the drawbacks to the way Telltale releases games. Maybe they have limited resources, and can only spend so much time refining aspects of a game before it has to be released. I don't know.
I hate to complain so soon after release, and I really love the game for the most part, but I have to concur about the controls.
Using the mouse AND keyboard is annoying, and I'm still not used to the mouse hoopy thing. I can see how this setup will work fine with the Wii Remote + Nunchuck, but simple point-and-click would be perfect for both platforms. The camera angles are cool and all, but honestly I prefer functionality before flash.
At some times it works like point and click, for example when you entered the area of the vodoo lady's house. You just click on the door and Guybrush walks there. This saves time and is comfortable. On the other hand there is no "leave the scene" possibility when you have left the house again. Why not make it posssible to click on the jungle and have Guybrush walk there?
It would have saved me from messing up the riddle with the animal sounds. I walked into a direction to see what sound would occur and had to my surprise already left the scene and had to start over again.
With the exception of that it is a great game, though. So keep the story and the humour up and try to make the controls for the next episodes as much point and click as possible. If you have to sacrifice some zooms, do it!
Personally, I'd rather give up point and click control for some more cinematic angles. For instance, the view walking back form the Marquis' house would be impossible with point and click. What they have now is a great compromise, and allows a more free flowing world, and less stage-like rooms as in sam and max. Alot more open air environments to explore as well. It just doesn't make sense to go point and click to me when you can have a more intriguing cinematic experience.
I also gave up using the mouse dragging method very quickly as I found it too difficult, particularly when using a laptop with a mousepad, it was just impossible and I relied solely on the arrow keys. Thank goodness the arrow keys work as well as the wasd keys! I am right handed like most people, and I can rest the heel of my right palm comfortably on the edge of the keyboard while using the arrow keys... using the wasd keys requires me to use my left hand and hover it uncomfortably over the keyboard, and as I'm not left handed it was impossible to control Guybrush with any precision using my left hand.
I am happy with the system of using the arrow keys to walk and switching to the mouse when I want to click on things... but like others I frequently found myself clicking on the ground and expecting Guybrush to walk there, simply because I'm used to adventure games working that way and it's difficult to break the habit. So it would be nice if this feature could be implemented.
I also found the constantly changing camera angles and zooming in/out to be quite dizzying, and I would much have preferred one consistent camera angle as in the earlier Monkey Island games. And, as another poster commented, I was puzzled by the necessity of the two circles for combining items, when in other adventure games you just use one item directly on another.
Still, overall I was happy with the controls, but in an ideal world I would have liked to have the click-to-walk functionality and get rid of the constantly changing camera angles.
The control systems took me ages to get my head around - for the WASD I'm used to more valve-style where the movement is from the character's perspective, so that took me a while. I didn't try arrow keys, will next time.The click and drag was hard to figure out but it was kinda funny at first too. Got the hang of it by the time I got into club 41 and used that for most of the game.
The mouse drag was tricky to control in the jungle - making sharp turns (like for
walking around the calendar
) was quite difficult.
I didn't like the mouse hoop - I see the need for something like that but it was aesthetically kinda ugly looking. Make it more piratey please! (like the CMI coin etc). Maybe a little pirate compass that appears over Guybrush's head or something?
Point and click would be cool, but if it is actually a choice between the telltale camera angles and point and click, I say keep the camera angles, really liked those.
In hopes of the point being stressed, I'll add my 2 pieces o'eight to this thread.
The game is fantastic. The controls are not. If the dynamic camera is what is keeping the game from having true point and click controls, then remove the dynamic camera. The camera itself actually seems to cause far more problems than anything it adds. Such as running into things in the pirate ship scene. Where as the controls they've added in the game make it near impossible to navigate properly in some places.
TellTale, you've got a fantastic game full of humor and fun. However, the control scheme is taking away from it. At first reading through this thread, I thought that auto-pathing may be a problem, however I then noticed in game that you can click on items ingame and Guybrush will path right to them just fine. There's no reason (that I can see) to not have this for everything. Please hear our request to at least add it as an option.
I like the dynamic, cinematic view camera. The angles aren't too "dizzying" or "wild" moving - maybe you are causing that by having Guybrush moving in a certain way using your keyboard movements.
I was able to follow the action on-screen quite well and as I said before I quickly adapted to the new click-drag. I didn't even need to use the keyboard at all until the the surgical table bit. It makes me wonder what is going on with the people who said they can't get their heads around how to use it and gave up when I managed to use it quite well. But then I've played many different styles of games and used many different control methods over the years, so maybe I can adapt better...
Having the direct control movement system is probably making it easier to release the games on console using gamepads. I suppose they could reinstate point and click alongside it as well to please the people who want it, but I'd suggest that maybe you need to give it more of a chance? Maybe you just don't like it because you got used to point and click - but you shouldn't automatically not like something just because you are familiar with one way of doing things.
Having said that though, I remember with Broken Sword 4 they put point and click back in alongside direct keyboard controls and that seemed to work OK.
P.S. I just wanted to say I was very impressed with the depth-of-field effects with the camera I haven't seen before on Telltale games (not sure if it's in Wallace and Gromit because for some reason putting that on quality 9 crashes my game but Monkey Island was on 9 and it never crashed at all so maybe you want to look at something there?)
I think that I may have been misunderstood. There's no problem following anything with their camera scheme. The problem is in some cases when it does a view shift to a new angle/scene/etc, it shifts to a obstructed view(Such as the opening pirate scene suddenly shifting to a different angle and you have the mast in your face)
I should add that I do not want them to remove any of their currently existing control schemes, just add a full point and click. The camera, however, works awesome sometimes, and is rubbish at others with this control scheme. Strangely enough, the camera they have implemented almost seems like it'd be even better with a point and click, which is why the reasoning posted earlier that it wouldn't work at all is confusing.
In hopes of the point being stressed, I'll add my 2 pieces o'eight to this thread.
The game is fantastic. The controls are not. If the dynamic camera is what is keeping the game from having true point and click controls, then remove the dynamic camera. The camera itself actually seems to cause far more problems than anything it adds. Such as running into things in the pirate ship scene. Where as the controls they've added in the game make it near impossible to navigate properly in some places.
TellTale, you've got a fantastic game full of humor and fun. However, the control scheme is taking away from it. At first reading through this thread, I thought that auto-pathing may be a problem, however I then noticed in game that you can click on items ingame and Guybrush will path right to them just fine. There's no reason (that I can see) to not have this for everything. Please hear our request to at least add it as an option.
Yeah the auto path when you can get Guybrush to walk by himself, i mean it works flawlessly, another reason why it just makes the keyboard so much more annoying.
But those few times when there is enough to click on and you get him to move only by clicking, Wow then the games is really almost perfect for me.
Well a couple of hours into the game and I got used to it, but I really think that the old point-n-click Sam&Max used was better.
On the other hand, I don't see a reason not to use both. Any player can use whatever he likes.
I prefer sam&max controls better, and of course, as a CoMI, I would LOVE to use the coin. But a strict point&click approach (with an option tu use arrows) seems better to me than the ugly and no-working dragging thing, or the arrow keys (still feel incomfortable...)
To be honest, even if I like the W&G system (very clever one, we're always evolving in small maps with not a lot of interactive objects and it selects automatically), I don't think it would have worked for ToMI though. However, the dragging or arrow deal is not working well to me. Plus, the ring around guybrush is very... ugly, it makes you feel you're in a videogame... and a developer version ^^
I don't know if it will be the only control scheme we'll get the chance to use through the whole season, but I still wonder why Telltale try to reinvent the wheel when it happens to roll just fine. S&M episodes are coming to the consoles, so crossplatform argument can't be... Seems like everyone is ok to say that the S&M Seasons 2 system was near perfection... new can be great, I'm not the kind of guy who'll scream about new character design for Guybrush, Elaine and LeChuck, but when the present system is great, why always try to change it ?
This new control scheme is sucky, and from what I've read the game doesn't even work properly with a wired 360 controller. Despite the promising demo I refuse to buy the game until there is a workable control method - be it fixing the m/k controls or adding full support for a 360 controller and making that work well.
Telltale needs to fix the controls, and at the minimum make it playable with a 360 controller and ditch the clunky m/k controls offered.
Also agree that Sam n Max worked great on PC. If you can't deliver that, get the 360 wired controller up to speed with this game. :mad:
As for the control system, it did feel a little awkward but I'm sure I'll be used to it before too long!
yes I've played sam and max. The reason why it is direct control is becasue of the 3d environments..point and click only works if you can see the ground in all shots...becasue of all the camera angles it doesn't make it possible.
I gotta say, i was so happy i almost peed my panties when i heard this game had come out! But, i have to agree with EVERYONE else in this forum; Point and click, please! Please TTG, do something about the controls!
Hugs from Ida in Sweden
Didn't particularly like the click-and-drag controls either at first but I got used to them quickly. I presume they put them in because on the Wii I think it would feel appropriate. eg point at the screen, hold the action button and flick your wrist to steer him around.
I found it sucked a load of the fun out of the game upon contacting them though i was basicly told im wrong and everyone but me prefers a none point and click interface.. Interesting considering most people on their own discussion forums seem to be saying otherwise. i hope a lot of other people contact them and show them the error of their ways
dear developers, i just registered to drop this message: the controls in the demo are a big disappointment, and i wont buy the game because of that (or my monkey island fever catches me, i was on board since the relase of MI1 in good old DOS times..)
It simply destroys the fun and flair. dragging guybrush around and keep bumping into obstacles is really to much. and also, defined commands like talk, use, etc, either via verbs or via icons (e.g. rightclick changes mousecursor icon) are definatly missing. now its a quite simple click-everywhere game, with parts of combining items.
i can clearly see, its because of the consoles like xbox, wii, etc.. and that is exactly why everything has to be soooo supersimple and, sorry, stupid. without at least a point-n-click control, monkey island is unplayable in my opinion. its not alone in the dark, its about thinking and trying things out. not about holding a mousebutton down (or walk around with semi-egoshooter controls)
sorry
my regards,
ka http://www.ninc.at
doesnt appear they will ever check to see that, I emailed customer support :P thats all i could find and thats where i was told im wrong, the control schee is fine and all of their customers prefer it.. surelly no one who botheres to look at threads like this would have the nerve to say something like that, they must be told directly i guess or they will just assume we all love it as it is which they clearly do at the moment
i spent most of my time trying to click on strategic objects so i didnt have to resort to the keyboard movement. the only thing i would change is the control system true point and click is an absolute must. it worked perfectly in broken sword 4 and in all three Ankh games and in vampyre story and in simon 4 (& 5)
see its not difficult to implement decent P&C in a 3d adventure game.
and finally thank you TT for not only giving us a new monkey island game but a really GOOD new monkey island game! apart from the controls that is
I enjoyed the game for the most part but have to add my voice to the choir of people feeling that the control system is poor. It was clearly designed with an analogue stick in mind, and I bet it feels perfectly natural on the Wii, but the simple fact is that neither keyboard nor mouse are particularly good substitutes for an analogue stick.
This isn't about being too set in my ways to adapt to a new system, it's about the new system being a flawed one. For the most part being able to click to walk places simply would've been a more comfortable and straightforward way to play the game.
well this is the response i got from them when i emailed them about it
"Hey John,
It's the control scheme we went with, our customers like it and we don't see it as flawed. Please let me know if there's anything else I can help you with.
Sincerely,
Customer Support
Telltale Games"
which seems totally absurd going by the response here
clearly they have no interest in listening to what we want, theyd rather tell us incorrectly what they think we want
well this is the last of this type of game i buy as long as they are using this control scheme. This company took off from bringing back the point and click genre we wanted, what makes them think we want something different now?
There'll be two groups of adventure gamers - those who can't get over the change away from point and click who have no games to play and the rest of adventure gamers. It is mind boggling to me that people cannot get over point and click when the rest of the gaming world has figured out either the WASD or arrow keys. The drag and click provided were also suitable if given a 10 or 15 minute chance to adapt. I just played Bone and I missed the controls from TOMI.
It's more tedious and harder to design levels that are point and click yet in 3D. With TOMI you can't just turn on a direct point and click control - think the
puzzle where you've got to walk around the circle.
Episodic games have limitations -somethings change and this is one of them.
How do they know that these "customers" like it when it just came out a couple days ago? Did they all decide to sing their praise only via email, so that us haters can't see it? Those other customers seem to be an organized bunch.
If they don't like it they don't have to buy the games - there's a demo available now. The new audience who can move on from the 1990s and embrace the slightest bit of change will be the new demographic in addition to "old timers" like myself who can deal with a control switch.
And this forum is hardly representative of players at large.
There'll be two groups of adventure gamers - those who can't get over the change away from point and click who have no games to play and the rest of adventure gamers. It is mind boggling to me that people cannot get over point and click when the rest of the gaming world has figured out either the WASD or arrow keys. The drag and click provided were also suitable if given a 10 or 15 minute chance to adapt. I just played Bone and I missed the controls from TOMI.
It's more tedious and harder to design levels that are point and click yet in 3D. With TOMI you can't just turn on a direct point and click control - think the
puzzle where you've got to walk around the circle.
Episodic games have limitations -somethings change and this is one of them.
I totally disagree, this type of game just isnt suited for the control scheme it has, the point and click interface was one of the main factors that gave the original monkey island games aswell as alot of other classics their unique charm, take it away and you dont have the same type of game any more, it feels totally different when playing. So its not that its hard to get used to, its not. Its more like this control scheme gives a totally different and less enjoyable game experience
If they don't like it they don't have to buy the games - there's a demo available now. The new audience who can move on from the 1990s and embrace the slightest bit of change will be the new demographic in addition to "old timers" like myself who can deal with a control switch.
And this forum is hardly representative of players at large.
Id say as far as this particular game is concerned this forum is quite an accurate representation of most people that have this right now. The mainstream public wont even know about this for the most part, which leaves mostly the dedicated fans most of which arent total newcomers to the genre to say the least, and im sure even if some people dont mind the new control scheme they nearly all agree a point and click one would be better and thats because its more enjoyable to play, and gives a much more relaxed and less fiddly experience.. .
Of course lots of people in here appear to not like the controls.
1) This is a thread about not liking the controls
2) In case you hadn't noticed, people like to moan on forums
3) It doesn't generally happen for someone to start a forum thread saying 'love the controls!' and people chipping in saying 'yeah, controls are good!'
Well, let me say now -I- like the controls, at least the WSAD ones, I've spoken to plenty of others that like the controls, and frankly I can't believe that so many people are resistant to change - it has always been annoying to use point and click to walk around larger, scrolling scenes, even when adventure games were 2D, because you'd have to keep clicking as it scrolled.
And, as has been pointed out countless times, the direct controls allow for so much more in terms of presentation. In some ways I wish Telltale would patch the game to include point and click movement so that you could all see for yourselves why it just wouldn't work very well
Finally, it's nothing to do with the Wii. Wallace and Gromit used a very similar mouse/keyboard approach, and that is not a Wii game. This is something they've been working on for a while.
Comments
I'll admit, I haven't heard Telltale's reasons as to why they stopped using point and click. I also don't know much about how games are made, so perhaps the issue is bigger than I understand. But even so, the principle of it all has always bothered me. The WASD key movement are much more improved than they used to be, granted. But why would a company bring back a feature that the majority of the people hate? Perhaps there are difficulties, but if it is possible to do it, shouldn't they take the time to do it? It seems inconsiderate to not take the time to do so when most of their fans are opposed to it.
But perhaps this is one of the drawbacks to the way Telltale releases games. Maybe they have limited resources, and can only spend so much time refining aspects of a game before it has to be released. I don't know.
Using the mouse AND keyboard is annoying, and I'm still not used to the mouse hoopy thing. I can see how this setup will work fine with the Wii Remote + Nunchuck, but simple point-and-click would be perfect for both platforms. The camera angles are cool and all, but honestly I prefer functionality before flash.
But I'd also like to point out one other thing that seems to be dragging the game back and slowing it down, combining items in the inventory.
Why drag them to the spot and push the combine button when you could just take one and place it over the other like in any other adventuregame?
It would have saved me from messing up the riddle with the animal sounds. I walked into a direction to see what sound would occur and had to my surprise already left the scene and had to start over again.
With the exception of that it is a great game, though. So keep the story and the humour up and try to make the controls for the next episodes as much point and click as possible. If you have to sacrifice some zooms, do it!
I am happy with the system of using the arrow keys to walk and switching to the mouse when I want to click on things... but like others I frequently found myself clicking on the ground and expecting Guybrush to walk there, simply because I'm used to adventure games working that way and it's difficult to break the habit. So it would be nice if this feature could be implemented.
I also found the constantly changing camera angles and zooming in/out to be quite dizzying, and I would much have preferred one consistent camera angle as in the earlier Monkey Island games. And, as another poster commented, I was puzzled by the necessity of the two circles for combining items, when in other adventure games you just use one item directly on another.
Still, overall I was happy with the controls, but in an ideal world I would have liked to have the click-to-walk functionality and get rid of the constantly changing camera angles.
The mouse drag was tricky to control in the jungle - making sharp turns (like for
I didn't like the mouse hoop - I see the need for something like that but it was aesthetically kinda ugly looking. Make it more piratey please! (like the CMI coin etc). Maybe a little pirate compass that appears over Guybrush's head or something?
Point and click would be cool, but if it is actually a choice between the telltale camera angles and point and click, I say keep the camera angles, really liked those.
The game is fantastic. The controls are not. If the dynamic camera is what is keeping the game from having true point and click controls, then remove the dynamic camera. The camera itself actually seems to cause far more problems than anything it adds. Such as running into things in the pirate ship scene. Where as the controls they've added in the game make it near impossible to navigate properly in some places.
TellTale, you've got a fantastic game full of humor and fun. However, the control scheme is taking away from it. At first reading through this thread, I thought that auto-pathing may be a problem, however I then noticed in game that you can click on items ingame and Guybrush will path right to them just fine. There's no reason (that I can see) to not have this for everything. Please hear our request to at least add it as an option.
I was able to follow the action on-screen quite well and as I said before I quickly adapted to the new click-drag. I didn't even need to use the keyboard at all until the the surgical table bit. It makes me wonder what is going on with the people who said they can't get their heads around how to use it and gave up when I managed to use it quite well. But then I've played many different styles of games and used many different control methods over the years, so maybe I can adapt better...
Having the direct control movement system is probably making it easier to release the games on console using gamepads. I suppose they could reinstate point and click alongside it as well to please the people who want it, but I'd suggest that maybe you need to give it more of a chance? Maybe you just don't like it because you got used to point and click - but you shouldn't automatically not like something just because you are familiar with one way of doing things.
Having said that though, I remember with Broken Sword 4 they put point and click back in alongside direct keyboard controls and that seemed to work OK.
P.S. I just wanted to say I was very impressed with the depth-of-field effects with the camera I haven't seen before on Telltale games (not sure if it's in Wallace and Gromit because for some reason putting that on quality 9 crashes my game but Monkey Island was on 9 and it never crashed at all so maybe you want to look at something there?)
I should add that I do not want them to remove any of their currently existing control schemes, just add a full point and click. The camera, however, works awesome sometimes, and is rubbish at others with this control scheme. Strangely enough, the camera they have implemented almost seems like it'd be even better with a point and click, which is why the reasoning posted earlier that it wouldn't work at all is confusing.
This!
But those few times when there is enough to click on and you get him to move only by clicking, Wow then the games is really almost perfect for me.
i want to be able to scratch my nose as i play!
On the other hand, I don't see a reason not to use both. Any player can use whatever he likes.
To be honest, even if I like the W&G system (very clever one, we're always evolving in small maps with not a lot of interactive objects and it selects automatically), I don't think it would have worked for ToMI though. However, the dragging or arrow deal is not working well to me. Plus, the ring around guybrush is very... ugly, it makes you feel you're in a videogame... and a developer version ^^
I don't know if it will be the only control scheme we'll get the chance to use through the whole season, but I still wonder why Telltale try to reinvent the wheel when it happens to roll just fine. S&M episodes are coming to the consoles, so crossplatform argument can't be... Seems like everyone is ok to say that the S&M Seasons 2 system was near perfection... new can be great, I'm not the kind of guy who'll scream about new character design for Guybrush, Elaine and LeChuck, but when the present system is great, why always try to change it ?
This new control scheme is sucky, and from what I've read the game doesn't even work properly with a wired 360 controller. Despite the promising demo I refuse to buy the game until there is a workable control method - be it fixing the m/k controls or adding full support for a 360 controller and making that work well.
Telltale needs to fix the controls, and at the minimum make it playable with a 360 controller and ditch the clunky m/k controls offered.
Also agree that Sam n Max worked great on PC. If you can't deliver that, get the 360 wired controller up to speed with this game. :mad:
You want a choice of controls - Direct point and click, WASD and mouse, click and drag - In the options.
This is because Bob likes point and click, but Steve loves WASD and mouse however Frank is in love with click and drag.
Hugs from Ida in Sweden
It simply destroys the fun and flair. dragging guybrush around and keep bumping into obstacles is really to much. and also, defined commands like talk, use, etc, either via verbs or via icons (e.g. rightclick changes mousecursor icon) are definatly missing. now its a quite simple click-everywhere game, with parts of combining items.
i can clearly see, its because of the consoles like xbox, wii, etc.. and that is exactly why everything has to be soooo supersimple and, sorry, stupid. without at least a point-n-click control, monkey island is unplayable in my opinion. its not alone in the dark, its about thinking and trying things out. not about holding a mousebutton down (or walk around with semi-egoshooter controls)
sorry
my regards,
ka
http://www.ninc.at
see its not difficult to implement decent P&C in a 3d adventure game.
and finally thank you TT for not only giving us a new monkey island game but a really GOOD new monkey island game! apart from the controls that is
The crowd has spoken, please bring back classic point and click control!
This isn't about being too set in my ways to adapt to a new system, it's about the new system being a flawed one. For the most part being able to click to walk places simply would've been a more comfortable and straightforward way to play the game.
"Hey John,
It's the control scheme we went with, our customers like it and we don't see it as flawed. Please let me know if there's anything else I can help you with.
Sincerely,
Customer Support
Telltale Games"
which seems totally absurd going by the response here
clearly they have no interest in listening to what we want, theyd rather tell us incorrectly what they think we want
well this is the last of this type of game i buy as long as they are using this control scheme. This company took off from bringing back the point and click genre we wanted, what makes them think we want something different now?
It's more tedious and harder to design levels that are point and click yet in 3D. With TOMI you can't just turn on a direct point and click control - think the
And this forum is hardly representative of players at large.
I totally disagree, this type of game just isnt suited for the control scheme it has, the point and click interface was one of the main factors that gave the original monkey island games aswell as alot of other classics their unique charm, take it away and you dont have the same type of game any more, it feels totally different when playing. So its not that its hard to get used to, its not. Its more like this control scheme gives a totally different and less enjoyable game experience
Id say as far as this particular game is concerned this forum is quite an accurate representation of most people that have this right now. The mainstream public wont even know about this for the most part, which leaves mostly the dedicated fans most of which arent total newcomers to the genre to say the least, and im sure even if some people dont mind the new control scheme they nearly all agree a point and click one would be better and thats because its more enjoyable to play, and gives a much more relaxed and less fiddly experience.. .
I totally agree, point 'n click is lightyears better in Sam 'n Max, but there you can't combine objects (if I'm not mistaken)?
1) This is a thread about not liking the controls
2) In case you hadn't noticed, people like to moan on forums
3) It doesn't generally happen for someone to start a forum thread saying 'love the controls!' and people chipping in saying 'yeah, controls are good!'
Well, let me say now -I- like the controls, at least the WSAD ones, I've spoken to plenty of others that like the controls, and frankly I can't believe that so many people are resistant to change - it has always been annoying to use point and click to walk around larger, scrolling scenes, even when adventure games were 2D, because you'd have to keep clicking as it scrolled.
And, as has been pointed out countless times, the direct controls allow for so much more in terms of presentation. In some ways I wish Telltale would patch the game to include point and click movement so that you could all see for yourselves why it just wouldn't work very well
Finally, it's nothing to do with the Wii. Wallace and Gromit used a very similar mouse/keyboard approach, and that is not a Wii game. This is something they've been working on for a while.