I decided to look away, like already said before, Jane deliberately provoked Kenny and was clearly looking for a fight. She knew full well that by lying it was going to send Kenny over the edge, she even told Clem to "not get involved." She slashed at Kenny multiple times and was going in for the kill as much as he was. She was the cause of the fight, she told Clem to not get involved, and she was the one losing. Also, if you do shoot Kenny, that makes him the first living person that Clementine murders....
I decided to look away, like already said before, Jane deliberately provoked Kenny and was clearly looking for a fight. She knew full well t… morehat by lying it was going to send Kenny over the edge, she even told Clem to "not get involved." She slashed at Kenny multiple times and was going in for the kill as much as he was. She was the cause of the fight, she told Clem to not get involved, and she was the one losing. Also, if you do shoot Kenny, that makes him the first living person that Clementine murders....
I made my Clem watch Kenny beat Carver to death. I felt she needed to see what people in this hell hole was capable of. I always liked Kenny but to say his actions before this were irrelevant makes no sense because its his past actions that compelled Jane to do what she did and pretend the baby was dead. Seeing him beat senseless also helped. He used to just get angry at people who disagreed with him.... Now he gets violent.
It proves to me that this was inevitable. Jane made a stupid mistake in pretending the baby was dead but this would have happened eventually. His passed actions proved that...
And now I wasn't looking for an excuse to kill him. But that made it easier to side with Jane here.
Not when deciding who was at fault in the situation or not.
Unless you admit that the situation had nothing to do with your decision, and you were just waiting for a chance to kill him. If so, I don't think you're better than the guy you hate.
Kenny never gave Jane the chance. Just like Kenny you are ignoring Jane trying to say it was an accident. I heard her. I heard her say it several times while there was nothing but murderous intent in Kenny's eyes.
What do you think the entire point of that scene was? It was to make it look like she killed the baby without actually coming out and saying… more it. It was to make look Kenny look bad in Clem's eyes. If Jane had just straight up said that she had killed the baby, Clem clearly would not have sided with her in that situation. If Jane actually wanted to come up with a full fleshed accident excuse she would have explained it. But again, that would have been counter productive... because she was not trying to talk Kenny down and explain herself. She was trying to do the opposite.
Thats right. I'd shoot him again and he admits it before dying that he let everyone down. He was insane. I see it no more evil than putting down a rabid dog.
She never once implied that she killed the kid
Not directly, no. But she did her best to make it look like she did without actually … moresaying so. If she wanted it to look like an accident and talk Kenny down she would have done so. But nope, she didn't even try. Because she was intentionally making herself look guilty in Kenny's eyes.
He didn't even stop to ask questions because as always he thought he had the answer.
His baby is dead and you can't bring yourself to understand why he would be in a blood rage. Wow. After everything else he has gone through as well? It was up to Jane to explain herself, but all she was interested in doing was making it look like she had killed the kid.
Honestly... She didn't have to do anything to prove any point with me. I was ready to leave with her just by Kenny's actions before that. Her actions were counter productive because I could see how unhinged Kenny had gotten.
She MADE it look like she killed the baby? What? Nothing of the sorts was said...
She said something like "I'm sorry." That doesn't mean … moreanything. No, her point was that Kenny would jump the gun and assume she killed the baby. So, as always, he wasn't thinking... at all. And again, he was a direct danger to the survival of the group.
Honestly though... If Jane was just up front with me about her plan, I would've been on board.
That's also his biggest problem. He's only loyal when it's easy. It's always about what his plans are. Disagree with him and it's done. It d… moreidn't matter that I carried the burden of killing Duck for him. It didn't matter that I killed the child walker in the attic or that I defended Duck at the pharmacy. I didn't kill Larry or steal from the station-wagon and it was all over from there.
You don't think it was reasonable that his emotions took control of him because of "his" baby child being supposedly dead?
If this was anyone else you'd be saying what a psycho he is... But because its Kenny he gets a free pass.... What about Clem? Clem has lost more than anyone. She lost her parents... she lost Lee.... she lost everyone. It stands to reason she was friends with Duck before he died so she also lost him... You Kenny fans act like because Kenny lost people he cares about that he gets this free pass for his actions yet ignore that he's not the only one who have lost people and aren't even close to losing it like Kenny has. So yes I think its very unreasonable for Kenny to lose his shit because a baby he latched onto "died"
Yes. Its not impossible to calm Kenny down throughout the game, or even that episode. No point in assuming either way really.
Yes thats why I spent the entire episode trying to calm Kenny down and it would work for maybe 5 seconds before he's getting angry again. I spent all this episode begging everyone to stop arguing. Funny how they continue to arguing after agreeing with me how they shouldn't argue. Before then he would listen for a bit but it always regressed faster and harder. During the fight every attempt I made to calm things down was either ignored or met with a "stay out of this Clem" Hell I got in between them and Kenny violently shoved Clem to the ground. At that point it was very much impossible to calm Kenny down.
He had clearly calmed about that after he first stopped the truck, even to the point that he was worried about Jane's saftey and asked her to stay in the truck while he scouted out the area. This also shows that he trusted her, considering she could have taken the truck and driven off at any time.
Because something else came up. They almost ran into the cars during their arguing.
Have you not seen the ending where they make it to Wellington and everything is fine? Looks like Kenny was right after all.
Nope. I saw the ending where Jane and Clem get back to Carver's compound and let a family in. This is a very meta response to what was happening during the fight. At the time we still don't know what the deal is with Wellington. Ok so its there. Until now I still didn't know that. It felt way to similar to Kenny's obsession with boats back in season 1. Thats all we had to go on.
Who jumped the gun? It wasn't Jane.
You don't think it was reasonable that his emotions took control of him because of "his" baby ch… moreild being supposedly dead? When you couple that with what Kenny knows about Jane and the fact that an accident doesn't seem very plausible in the situation, it only makes sense that he would explode. Anyone would. The point is, Jane did nothing to explain her actions at all. That only made her look all the more guilty. I was on board with Kenny in thinking that she had killed the kid.
And come on now, you think anything would calm Kenny down?
Yes. Its not impossible to calm Kenny down throughout the game, or even that episode. No point in assuming either way really.
No, he clearly wanted her dead for a long time.
That isn't based on anything at all..
Certainly was not "clear"
"I will fucking end you." Remember when he said this after Jane was (admittedly, inappropriate… [view original content]
Makes me feel superior to the easily manipulated people who shot Kenny. Jane could have easily gotten her point hat Kenny is unstable across… more and not have Kenny killed by telling the truth but it as obvious she wanted Cowmentine all to herself and so she needed to remove the only obstacle to havin Clementine
Not directly, no. But she did her best to make it look like she did without actually saying so. If she wanted it to look like an accident and talk Kenny down she would have done so. But nope, she didn't even try. Because she was intentionally making herself look guilty in Kenny's eyes.
She didn't even try
Didn't even try
I specifically heard her say "No Kenny listen it was an accident
If thats not your point please what was your point?
I read your post several times if I missed the point than either I'm an idiot or there's a another hidden message there.
If this was anyone else you'd be saying what a psycho he is... But because its Kenny he gets a free pass...
Nope. Not sure why people waste their time with baseless staments like that..
You Kenny fans act like because Kenny lost people he cares about that he gets this free pass for his actions yet ignore that he's not the only one who have lost people and aren't even close to losing it like Kenny has. So yes I think its very unreasonable for Kenny to lose his shit because a baby he latched onto "died"
You don't understand at all. Of course other people have lost loved ones. No one has ever ignored that. The point is Jane made it look like she may have killed "his" baby. Don't be so black and white about this. That is very different from any other situation that we have seen. Jane was purposely stringing Kenny along into thinking she had done something terrible. It was pure maniuplation of his already fragile emotions.
Yes thats why I spent the entire episode trying to calm Kenny down and it would work for maybe 5 seconds before he's getting angry again. I spent all this episode begging everyone to stop arguing. Funny how they continue to arguing after agreeing with me how they shouldn't argue. Before then he would listen for a bit but it always regressed faster and harder. During the fight every attempt I made to calm things down was either ignored or met with a "stay out of this Clem" Hell I got in between them and Kenny violently shoved Clem to the ground. At that point it was very much impossible to calm Kenny down.
Hilariously over exagerated. Kenny never shoved Clem to the ground. His anger didn't just subside for "5" seconds in other situations.
Because something else came up. They almost ran into the cars during their arguing.
... yes. That's clearly what I'm talking about. I'm talking about when Kenny gets out of the car.
Nope. I saw the ending where Jane and Clem get back to Carver's compound and let a family in. This is a very meta response to what was happening during the fight. At the time we still don't know what the deal is with Wellington. Ok so its there. Until now I still didn't know that. It felt way to similar to Kenny's obsession with boats back in season 1. Thats all we had to go on.
Doesn't matter. Kenny was right. His plan about Wellington was not "bullshit".
You don't think it was reasonable that his emotions took control of him because of "his" baby child being supposedly dead?
If this w… moreas anyone else you'd be saying what a psycho he is... But because its Kenny he gets a free pass.... What about Clem? Clem has lost more than anyone. She lost her parents... she lost Lee.... she lost everyone. It stands to reason she was friends with Duck before he died so she also lost him... You Kenny fans act like because Kenny lost people he cares about that he gets this free pass for his actions yet ignore that he's not the only one who have lost people and aren't even close to losing it like Kenny has. So yes I think its very unreasonable for Kenny to lose his shit because a baby he latched onto "died"
Yes. Its not impossible to calm Kenny down throughout the game, or even that episode. No point in assuming either way really.
Yes thats why I spent the entire episode trying to calm … [view original content]
I'm not saying that she never said that. I'm saying that her saying that doesn't really change anything. She was purposesly being vague. If she really wanted to pass it off as an accident she would have elaborated/ explained herself. She never does though, because that would have been counterproductive to her agenda. It only made her look more guilty that she didn't try to explain herself.. and thats what she was going for. That was the entire point of the incident, to string Kenny along into thinking she had killed his baby. She wasn't trying to clear herself of the accusations.
Not directly, no. But she did her best to make it look like she did without actually saying so. If she wanted it to look like an accident an… mored talk Kenny down she would have done so. But nope, she didn't even try. Because she was intentionally making herself look guilty in Kenny's eyes.
She didn't even try
Didn't even try
I specifically heard her say "No Kenny listen it was an accident
If thats not your point please what was your point?
I read your post several times if I missed the point than either I'm an idiot or there's a another hidden message there.
I'm not saying that she never said that. I'm saying that her saying that doesn't really change anything. She was purposesly being vague. If … moreshe really wanted to pass it off as an accident she would have elaborated/ explained herself. She never does though, because that would have been counterproductive to her agenda. It only made her look more guilty that she didn't try to explain herself.. and thats what she was going for. That was the entire point of the incident, to string Kenny along into thinking she had killed his baby. She wasn't trying to clear herself of the accusations.
If this was anyone else you'd be saying what a psycho he is... But because its Kenny he gets a free pass...
Nope. Not sure why peopl… moree waste their time with baseless staments like that..
You Kenny fans act like because Kenny lost people he cares about that he gets this free pass for his actions yet ignore that he's not the only one who have lost people and aren't even close to losing it like Kenny has. So yes I think its very unreasonable for Kenny to lose his shit because a baby he latched onto "died"
You don't understand at all. Of course other people have lost loved ones. No one has ever ignored that. The point is Jane made it look like she may have killed "his" baby. Don't be so black and white about this. That is very different from any other situation that we have seen. Jane was purposely stringing Kenny along into thinking she had done something terrible. It was pure maniuplation of his already fragile emotions.
… [view original content]
We clearly played a different game.
I watched as Kenny shoves Clem to the ground.
I saw it you calling me a liar?
Maybe a little bit of exaggeration but its easy to see this coming watching Kenny constantly get angry and violent even.
Of course I felt bad. I felt horrible about it. But I'm not going to feel evil about it. I'd say the same thing if it was the other way around and Jane was trying to kill Kenny. When I say I'd do it again I mean I'd kill someone I like to stop them from killing someone because they lost their mind.
Ok, maybe that was a little too harsh. Sorry, I got a little too emotional. But in theory, you aren't.
You just blatantly said you'd shoo… moret him over and over again like a rabid dog, which isn't hard for you it seems.
Your point was that Kenny was a psychopath for trying to kill Jane, but you say you didn't feel bad, maybe even good when he died.
I just didn't understand these two being your choices. They had built up Luke vs. Kenny since Chapter 2. Jane and Kenny had too similar of a worldview. They both trusted no one but Clementine. They were both prone to violence and downright insanity. They both had been morphed and jaded beyond repair from the apocalypse. The game asks you to pick between two characters with the Carver viewpoint of things.
Luke represented the other side of things. He still had his humanity. He still wanted to trust and protect people. He still tried to solve problems in ways other than violence. His weakness was that he wasn't as strong as the others and that this trust of people might get Clem and others into trouble. Not to mention his tendency to think more about less important things like having fun and fulfilling desires in a world where that's not too much of an option anymore. So both Kenny and Luke had their strengths and weaknesses and they were both at odds with each other and had significant more buildup than Jane and Kenny. It was the Cabin crew vs. Lee's crew. Clem letting go of the past with Kenny and Lee or remaining loyal to Kenny despite his obvious loss of humanity.
Jane and Kenny was literally pick option one or two. They are both psychopaths clinging to Clem and AJ as their last piece of humanity. It should've been Luke vs. Kenny. It had pointed to Luke vs. Kenny the entire season. Luke also had part recorded that had him survive the ice part, so why did they change this at the last minute? I don't understand.
That was a rather rough brush aside then. Either way that was the moment I knew Kenny wasn't going to listen to anyone.
My whole problem with this scenario is how Jane is instantly perceived as the bad guy when in the real world it doesn't work like that. You don't blame the person getting shot at for "manipulating" someone into getting angry into getting shot. Jane was shocked at how it went down. She didn't even expect it to go that badly. Which just proves my point. If not with Jane Kenny WILL do this with anyone. Jane just made sure it wasn't Clem that murderous rage wasn't directed at. Because I don't believe for a second Clem and that baby will be safe with him around.
It was a shitty thing for Jane to do. Stupid mistake but I kinda can see why she did it because in her perspective she was trying to get Clem and the baby away from that time bomb.
Yea. We played different games. Because I seem to remember Kenny barging back in and before Jane can say anything edgewise before he's at her throat.
I just realized what this makes me think of. In abusive relationships you hear it all the time. She stays with him even though keeps hurting her and all she can say is "I must've done something wrong. Its clearly my fault"
How telling is it that the one about to be killed is considered the bad guy because she "manipulated" someone into it.
I shot Kenny. But when I found in the end, I knew for a fact that Jane just wanted to win over Clementine by being a manipulative bitch. I called her fucking crazy and ditched her. #withajintheherd
I just didn't understand these two being your choices. They had built up Luke vs. Kenny since Chapter 2. Jane and Kenny had too similar of a… more worldview. They both trusted no one but Clementine. They were both prone to violence and downright insanity. They both had been morphed and jaded beyond repair from the apocalypse. The game asks you to pick between two characters with the Carver viewpoint of things.
Luke represented the other side of things. He still had his humanity. He still wanted to trust and protect people. He still tried to solve problems in ways other than violence. His weakness was that he wasn't as strong as the others and that this trust of people might get Clem and others into trouble. Not to mention his tendency to think more about less important things like having fun and fulfilling desires in a world where that's not too much of an option anymore. So both Kenny and Luke had their strengths and weaknesses and they were bo… [view original content]
How telling is it that the one about to be killed is considered the bad guy because she "manipulated" someone into it.
You don't think there is justification for violence because he was manipulated into thinking she had killed "his" baby? Alrighty then.
You don't know that Kenny would have killed Jane before she escalated things. That is pure speculation on your part. He only kills her at the point where she is clearly trying to kill him.
I just realized what this makes me think of. In abusive relationships you hear it all the time. She stays with him even though keeps hurting her and all she can say is "I must've done something wrong. Its clearly my fault"
Wait what? That wasn't my Clem-Kenny situation at all, and based on how you view Kenny I imagine you didn't act that way towards him either.
Yea. We played different games. Because I seem to remember Kenny barging back in and before Jane can say anything edgewise before he's at her throat.
Go back and replay that part, he never pushes her down.
Yea. We played different games. Because I seem to remember Kenny barging back in and before Jane can say anything edgewise before he's at … moreher throat.
I just realized what this makes me think of. In abusive relationships you hear it all the time. She stays with him even though keeps hurting her and all she can say is "I must've done something wrong. Its clearly my fault"
How telling is it that the one about to be killed is considered the bad guy because she "manipulated" someone into it.
That was a rather rough brush aside then. Either way that was the moment I knew Kenny wasn't going to listen to anyone.
Yeah, it was a little rough I guess. Not all that bad though. Anyway, I was just saying you were exaggerating when you said that he had shoved her to the ground.
You don't blame the person getting shot at for "manipulating" someone into getting angry .
It depends on the situation. We're looking at a violent response to the perceived murder of a baby. Totally different story.
Jane was shocked at how it went down. She didn't even expect it to go that badly.
No, she was not shocked at all. Everything went according to plan, except for in the case that she gets killed. Thats why she says to Clem: "You're going to see him for what he really is". She said that before Kenny even came back into the shelter. Her entire plan was to throw Kenny off the rails so she would have a reason to get rid of him, even if that meant killing him.
It was a shitty thing for Jane to do. Stupid mistake but I kinda can see why she did it because in her perspective she was trying to get Clem and the baby away from that time bomb.
The time bomb that gets Clementine to Wellington safely? That sacrifices his own needs so that he can get Clem and the baby to a place where he knows that they will be safe? People just can't ever give credit where it is due it seems..
That was a rather rough brush aside then. Either way that was the moment I knew Kenny wasn't going to listen to anyone.
My whole proble… morem with this scenario is how Jane is instantly perceived as the bad guy when in the real world it doesn't work like that. You don't blame the person getting shot at for "manipulating" someone into getting angry into getting shot. Jane was shocked at how it went down. She didn't even expect it to go that badly. Which just proves my point. If not with Jane Kenny WILL do this with anyone. Jane just made sure it wasn't Clem that murderous rage wasn't directed at. Because I don't believe for a second Clem and that baby will be safe with him around.
It was a shitty thing for Jane to do. Stupid mistake but I kinda can see why she did it because in her perspective she was trying to get Clem and the baby away from that time bomb.
Jane- " I didn't kill him it was an accident, Kenny! I won't back down from you, Kenny."
Kenny -"Shut up."
Clem- "Kenny, let her talk."
Kenny "I'm done talking, Clem."
Jane: sheathing her knife "Don't you come near me, you son of a bitch." Kenny attacks
Where exactly was he willing to listen? Where did she get an opportunity to explain herself? As Kenny said - He was done talking. There was nothing she could say to him that would satiate his blood lust.
How telling is it that the one about to be killed is considered the bad guy because she "manipulated" someone into it.
You don't thi… morenk there is justification for violence because he was manipulated into thinking she had killed "his" baby? Alrighty then.
You don't know that Kenny would have killed Jane before she escalated things. That is pure speculation on your part. He only kills her at the point where she is clearly trying to kill him.
I just realized what this makes me think of. In abusive relationships you hear it all the time. She stays with him even though keeps hurting her and all she can say is "I must've done something wrong. Its clearly my fault"
Wait what? That wasn't my Clem-Kenny situation at all, and based on how you view Kenny I imagine you didn't act that way towards him either.
Yea. We played different games. Because I seem to remember Kenny barging back in and before Jane can say anything edge… [view original content]
Taking your arms, extending them towards someone, and then thrusting said arms toward a direction away from yourself is shoving. He shoved her. She actually hit the ground as well.
That was a rather rough brush aside then. Either way that was the moment I knew Kenny wasn't going to listen to anyone.
Yeah, it was… more a little rough I guess. Not all that bad though. Anyway, I was just saying you were exaggerating when you said that he had shoved her to the ground.
You don't blame the person getting shot at for "manipulating" someone into getting angry .
It depends on the situation. We're looking at a violent response to the perceived murder of a baby. Totally different story.
Jane was shocked at how it went down. She didn't even expect it to go that badly.
No, she was not shocked at all. Everything went according to plan, except for in the case that she gets killed. Thats why she says to Clem: "You're going to see him for what he really is". She said that before Kenny even came back into the shelter. Her entire plan was to throw Kenny off the rails so she would have a reason to get rid of … [view original content]
As he said, he was done talking at that point. As I would have been.
While she doesn`t explicitly say it, she pretty much admits to having left the baby behind. Not killed it directly, but at the very least abandoned it. You don't just loose a baby to walkers without taking a scratch. And in the event it had frozen to death, every person with the least bit of compassion would have tried to bring it to the cottage and try warming it up, just to be sure.
She basically admitted to not caring enough about the baby to at least try saving it, and THAT is what ticked Kenny off. Nothing she could have said at this point would have changed that, and admitting to the twisted thing she actually did (leaving in a snowstorm full of zombies where it would likely die, just to prove a point) would have only made it worse
Jane- " I didn't kill him it was an accident, Kenny! I won't back down from you, Kenny."
Kenny -"Shut up."
Clem- "Kenny, let her talk."
K… moreenny "I'm done talking, Clem."
Jane: sheathing her knife "Don't you come near me, you son of a bitch."
Kenny attacks
Where exactly was he willing to listen? Where did she get an opportunity to explain herself? As Kenny said - He was done talking. There was nothing she could say to him that would satiate his blood lust.
When Kenny was about to stab Jane, the only right thing to do for me was to pull the trigger.
After finding out about Jane's "plot", I was pretty pissed, but ditching Jane would have more or less equaled suicide, so I went with her. I kind of did get her intentions of "showing what Kenny was capable of", I constantly had a feeling that Kenny really was a timebomb just waiting to blow. Through the entire second season you can just tell that Kenny was quite unstable. Never willing to compromise, always so snappy and short-tempered.. You cant blame him, after everything he's been through. I really wanted to stay loyal to him, but I just couldnt agree with the way he was doing things.
Also, I just couldn't help but feel that Kenny thought of AJ as somekind of a replacement for Duck.. He just needed somebody to take care of, because he didn't really care about himself anymore. And Im pretty sure he would have been willing to do some crazy stuff to ANYONE that tried to get in the way of him looking after that baby.
The ending where he selfessly tries to get Clem and AJ into Wellington does sort of debunk many of my comments about him... But there was no way for me to know that during my original playthrough. At that point, killing him was the only reasonable option in my eyes.
No she didn't. Her words were "I didn't kill it, it was an accident." It doesn't imply that she didn't care, it implies that something bad happened. You're turning "accident" into "malicious intent" without even talking about it. You're as crazy as Kenny.
As he said, he was done talking at that point. As I would have been.
While she doesn`t explicitly say it, she pretty much admits to havin… moreg left the baby behind. Not killed it directly, but at the very least abandoned it. You don't just loose a baby to walkers without taking a scratch. And in the event it had frozen to death, every person with the least bit of compassion would have tried to bring it to the cottage and try warming it up, just to be sure.
She basically admitted to not caring enough about the baby to at least try saving it, and THAT is what ticked Kenny off. Nothing she could have said at this point would have changed that, and admitting to the twisted thing she actually did (leaving in a snowstorm full of zombies where it would likely die, just to prove a point) would have only made it worse
Name the kind of accident that would make Jane (a person known for her competence and cool under fire) loose a 5kg baby while walking around among a small number of frozen, mostly harmless zombies?
Dropped it? You'd notice. Babys don't just poof away.
Got attacked by walkers? Then why isn't she hurt?
Baby froze to death? Then why not bring it with you to try warming it up, or at least giving it a burial or whatever.
Name one plausible scenario. There isn't one. Even if it was an accident, she clearly did the minimum amount to save the baby and just dropped it/left it to die. Else she wouldn't be here completely unscathed without it.
No she didn't. Her words were "I didn't kill it, it was an accident." It doesn't imply that she didn't care, it implies that something bad h… moreappened. You're turning "accident" into "malicious intent" without even talking about it. You're as crazy as Kenny.
Blizzard - whiteout conditions. You can't defend against what you can't see. Sure Clem shot a couple but if you're paying attention you realize that Jane's holster is empty and you really have no idea how many are actually out there.
The only reason you can't think of any reasons is because you're not trying.
Name the kind of accident that would make Jane (a person known for her competence and cool under fire) loose a 5kg baby while walking around… more among a small number of frozen, mostly harmless zombies?
Dropped it? You'd notice. Babys don't just poof away.
Got attacked by walkers? Then why isn't she hurt?
Baby froze to death? Then why not bring it with you to try warming it up, or at least giving it a burial or whatever.
Name one plausible scenario. There isn't one. Even if it was an accident, she clearly did the minimum amount to save the baby and just dropped it/left it to die. Else she wouldn't be here completely unscathed without it.
I viewed Kenny as the agressor. Jane claimed it was "an accident", although she chose not to leave. However, Kenny attacked Jane and had the knife against her chest, ready to kill her. Jane stayed on the defensive the whole time (probably on purpose) and Kenny's the one who keep charging.
Comments
I decided to look away, like already said before, Jane deliberately provoked Kenny and was clearly looking for a fight. She knew full well that by lying it was going to send Kenny over the edge, she even told Clem to "not get involved." She slashed at Kenny multiple times and was going in for the kill as much as he was. She was the cause of the fight, she told Clem to not get involved, and she was the one losing. Also, if you do shoot Kenny, that makes him the first living person that Clementine murders....
depending on your playthrough, Clem can kill the Stranger, so she murders him (to save Lee, but still kills a living person)
I made my Clem watch Kenny beat Carver to death. I felt she needed to see what people in this hell hole was capable of. I always liked Kenny but to say his actions before this were irrelevant makes no sense because its his past actions that compelled Jane to do what she did and pretend the baby was dead. Seeing him beat senseless also helped. He used to just get angry at people who disagreed with him.... Now he gets violent.
It proves to me that this was inevitable. Jane made a stupid mistake in pretending the baby was dead but this would have happened eventually. His passed actions proved that...
And now I wasn't looking for an excuse to kill him. But that made it easier to side with Jane here.
Kenny never gave Jane the chance. Just like Kenny you are ignoring Jane trying to say it was an accident. I heard her. I heard her say it several times while there was nothing but murderous intent in Kenny's eyes.
Then you are no better than Kenny
"YOU KILLED HIM" "NO KENNY LISTEN IT WAS AN ACCIDENT"
How telling that you call the baby his.
"his baby is dead"
lol
Honestly... She didn't have to do anything to prove any point with me. I was ready to leave with her just by Kenny's actions before that. Her actions were counter productive because I could see how unhinged Kenny had gotten.
You completely missed the point..
Go back and read, I already elaborated on this.
In my gameplay Lee killed him, but you're right, I completely forgot about that! Thanks for reminding me:)
Because that Larry issue clearly carries more weight.
If this was anyone else you'd be saying what a psycho he is... But because its Kenny he gets a free pass.... What about Clem? Clem has lost more than anyone. She lost her parents... she lost Lee.... she lost everyone. It stands to reason she was friends with Duck before he died so she also lost him... You Kenny fans act like because Kenny lost people he cares about that he gets this free pass for his actions yet ignore that he's not the only one who have lost people and aren't even close to losing it like Kenny has. So yes I think its very unreasonable for Kenny to lose his shit because a baby he latched onto "died"
Yes thats why I spent the entire episode trying to calm Kenny down and it would work for maybe 5 seconds before he's getting angry again. I spent all this episode begging everyone to stop arguing. Funny how they continue to arguing after agreeing with me how they shouldn't argue. Before then he would listen for a bit but it always regressed faster and harder. During the fight every attempt I made to calm things down was either ignored or met with a "stay out of this Clem" Hell I got in between them and Kenny violently shoved Clem to the ground. At that point it was very much impossible to calm Kenny down.
Because something else came up. They almost ran into the cars during their arguing.
Nope. I saw the ending where Jane and Clem get back to Carver's compound and let a family in. This is a very meta response to what was happening during the fight. At the time we still don't know what the deal is with Wellington. Ok so its there. Until now I still didn't know that. It felt way to similar to Kenny's obsession with boats back in season 1. Thats all we had to go on.
Yea... I feel so manipulated for siding with the only sane person here.
I feel so bad for not letting the crazy guy kill someone because he thought a baby was dead.
Yes I'm no better than the murdering lunatic for stopping him for murdering someone.
Humanity is lost when a man who tortures a teenager is touted as a hero.
I specifically heard her say "No Kenny listen it was an accident
If thats not your point please what was your point?
I read your post several times if I missed the point than either I'm an idiot or there's a another hidden message there.
Nope. Not sure why people waste their time with baseless staments like that..
You don't understand at all. Of course other people have lost loved ones. No one has ever ignored that. The point is Jane made it look like she may have killed "his" baby. Don't be so black and white about this. That is very different from any other situation that we have seen. Jane was purposely stringing Kenny along into thinking she had done something terrible. It was pure maniuplation of his already fragile emotions.
Hilariously over exagerated. Kenny never shoved Clem to the ground. His anger didn't just subside for "5" seconds in other situations.
... yes. That's clearly what I'm talking about. I'm talking about when Kenny gets out of the car.
Doesn't matter. Kenny was right. His plan about Wellington was not "bullshit".
Ok, maybe that was a little too harsh. Sorry, I got a little too emotional. But in theory, you aren't.
You just blatantly said you'd shoot him over and over again like a rabid dog, which isn't hard for you it seems.
Your point was that Kenny was a psychopath for trying to kill Jane, but you say you didn't feel bad, maybe even good when he died.
I'm not saying that she never said that. I'm saying that her saying that doesn't really change anything. She was purposesly being vague. If she really wanted to pass it off as an accident she would have elaborated/ explained herself. She never does though, because that would have been counterproductive to her agenda. It only made her look more guilty that she didn't try to explain herself.. and thats what she was going for. That was the entire point of the incident, to string Kenny along into thinking she had killed his baby. She wasn't trying to clear herself of the accusations.
When? Before or after Kenny pummels her to death?
We clearly played a different game.
I watched as Kenny shoves Clem to the ground.
I saw it you calling me a liar?
Maybe a little bit of exaggeration but its easy to see this coming watching Kenny constantly get angry and violent even.
Before, obviously. She had every opportunity to do so. No one was preventing her from speaking.
Nah, I'm not calling you a liar. I think you're just confused. Kenny only brushed her to the side.
Do you have proof of otherwise..?
Of course I felt bad. I felt horrible about it. But I'm not going to feel evil about it. I'd say the same thing if it was the other way around and Jane was trying to kill Kenny. When I say I'd do it again I mean I'd kill someone I like to stop them from killing someone because they lost their mind.
I just didn't understand these two being your choices. They had built up Luke vs. Kenny since Chapter 2. Jane and Kenny had too similar of a worldview. They both trusted no one but Clementine. They were both prone to violence and downright insanity. They both had been morphed and jaded beyond repair from the apocalypse. The game asks you to pick between two characters with the Carver viewpoint of things.
Luke represented the other side of things. He still had his humanity. He still wanted to trust and protect people. He still tried to solve problems in ways other than violence. His weakness was that he wasn't as strong as the others and that this trust of people might get Clem and others into trouble. Not to mention his tendency to think more about less important things like having fun and fulfilling desires in a world where that's not too much of an option anymore. So both Kenny and Luke had their strengths and weaknesses and they were both at odds with each other and had significant more buildup than Jane and Kenny. It was the Cabin crew vs. Lee's crew. Clem letting go of the past with Kenny and Lee or remaining loyal to Kenny despite his obvious loss of humanity.
Jane and Kenny was literally pick option one or two. They are both psychopaths clinging to Clem and AJ as their last piece of humanity. It should've been Luke vs. Kenny. It had pointed to Luke vs. Kenny the entire season. Luke also had part recorded that had him survive the ice part, so why did they change this at the last minute? I don't understand.
That was a rather rough brush aside then. Either way that was the moment I knew Kenny wasn't going to listen to anyone.
My whole problem with this scenario is how Jane is instantly perceived as the bad guy when in the real world it doesn't work like that. You don't blame the person getting shot at for "manipulating" someone into getting angry into getting shot. Jane was shocked at how it went down. She didn't even expect it to go that badly. Which just proves my point. If not with Jane Kenny WILL do this with anyone. Jane just made sure it wasn't Clem that murderous rage wasn't directed at. Because I don't believe for a second Clem and that baby will be safe with him around.
It was a shitty thing for Jane to do. Stupid mistake but I kinda can see why she did it because in her perspective she was trying to get Clem and the baby away from that time bomb.
Yea. We played different games. Because I seem to remember Kenny barging back in and before Jane can say anything edgewise before he's at her throat.
I just realized what this makes me think of. In abusive relationships you hear it all the time. She stays with him even though keeps hurting her and all she can say is "I must've done something wrong. Its clearly my fault"
How telling is it that the one about to be killed is considered the bad guy because she "manipulated" someone into it.
I shot Kenny. But when I found in the end, I knew for a fact that Jane just wanted to win over Clementine by being a manipulative bitch. I called her fucking crazy and ditched her. #withajintheherd
Different writers....
I shot Kenny, then regretted it and left Jane. I told him to stop, but he wouldn't.
You don't think there is justification for violence because he was manipulated into thinking she had killed "his" baby? Alrighty then.
You don't know that Kenny would have killed Jane before she escalated things. That is pure speculation on your part. He only kills her at the point where she is clearly trying to kill him.
Wait what? That wasn't my Clem-Kenny situation at all, and based on how you view Kenny I imagine you didn't act that way towards him either.
Go back and replay that part, he never pushes her down.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESxv3Em7wBw
Skip to 1:44. He just pushes her aside with one arm..
Yeah, it was a little rough I guess. Not all that bad though. Anyway, I was just saying you were exaggerating when you said that he had shoved her to the ground.
It depends on the situation. We're looking at a violent response to the perceived murder of a baby. Totally different story.
No, she was not shocked at all. Everything went according to plan, except for in the case that she gets killed. Thats why she says to Clem: "You're going to see him for what he really is". She said that before Kenny even came back into the shelter. Her entire plan was to throw Kenny off the rails so she would have a reason to get rid of him, even if that meant killing him.
The time bomb that gets Clementine to Wellington safely? That sacrifices his own needs so that he can get Clem and the baby to a place where he knows that they will be safe? People just can't ever give credit where it is due it seems..
Jane- " I didn't kill him it was an accident, Kenny! I won't back down from you, Kenny."
Kenny -"Shut up."
Clem- "Kenny, let her talk."
Kenny "I'm done talking, Clem."
Jane: sheathing her knife "Don't you come near me, you son of a bitch."
Kenny attacks
Where exactly was he willing to listen? Where did she get an opportunity to explain herself? As Kenny said - He was done talking. There was nothing she could say to him that would satiate his blood lust.
He shoved her.
Taking your arms, extending them towards someone, and then thrusting said arms toward a direction away from yourself is shoving. He shoved her. She actually hit the ground as well.
Well I don't like it >:(
As he said, he was done talking at that point. As I would have been.
While she doesn`t explicitly say it, she pretty much admits to having left the baby behind. Not killed it directly, but at the very least abandoned it. You don't just loose a baby to walkers without taking a scratch. And in the event it had frozen to death, every person with the least bit of compassion would have tried to bring it to the cottage and try warming it up, just to be sure.
She basically admitted to not caring enough about the baby to at least try saving it, and THAT is what ticked Kenny off. Nothing she could have said at this point would have changed that, and admitting to the twisted thing she actually did (leaving in a snowstorm full of zombies where it would likely die, just to prove a point) would have only made it worse
When Kenny was about to stab Jane, the only right thing to do for me was to pull the trigger.
After finding out about Jane's "plot", I was pretty pissed, but ditching Jane would have more or less equaled suicide, so I went with her. I kind of did get her intentions of "showing what Kenny was capable of", I constantly had a feeling that Kenny really was a timebomb just waiting to blow. Through the entire second season you can just tell that Kenny was quite unstable. Never willing to compromise, always so snappy and short-tempered.. You cant blame him, after everything he's been through. I really wanted to stay loyal to him, but I just couldnt agree with the way he was doing things.
Also, I just couldn't help but feel that Kenny thought of AJ as somekind of a replacement for Duck.. He just needed somebody to take care of, because he didn't really care about himself anymore. And Im pretty sure he would have been willing to do some crazy stuff to ANYONE that tried to get in the way of him looking after that baby.
The ending where he selfessly tries to get Clem and AJ into Wellington does sort of debunk many of my comments about him... But there was no way for me to know that during my original playthrough. At that point, killing him was the only reasonable option in my eyes.
No she didn't. Her words were "I didn't kill it, it was an accident." It doesn't imply that she didn't care, it implies that something bad happened. You're turning "accident" into "malicious intent" without even talking about it. You're as crazy as Kenny.
Name the kind of accident that would make Jane (a person known for her competence and cool under fire) loose a 5kg baby while walking around among a small number of frozen, mostly harmless zombies?
Dropped it? You'd notice. Babys don't just poof away.
Got attacked by walkers? Then why isn't she hurt?
Baby froze to death? Then why not bring it with you to try warming it up, or at least giving it a burial or whatever.
Name one plausible scenario. There isn't one. Even if it was an accident, she clearly did the minimum amount to save the baby and just dropped it/left it to die. Else she wouldn't be here completely unscathed without it.
Blizzard - whiteout conditions. You can't defend against what you can't see. Sure Clem shot a couple but if you're paying attention you realize that Jane's holster is empty and you really have no idea how many are actually out there.
The only reason you can't think of any reasons is because you're not trying.
I viewed Kenny as the agressor. Jane claimed it was "an accident", although she chose not to leave. However, Kenny attacked Jane and had the knife against her chest, ready to kill her. Jane stayed on the defensive the whole time (probably on purpose) and Kenny's the one who keep charging.