The only reason i put Ben in Kenny's group is to make them even. Yes she is the only medic, but the question is does the pros out weigh the cons. Ofcourse i want to keep the medic, but I would also have to keep the other two people. One that would attract zombies (Duck) and one that would not have my back if my life depended on it (Kenny).
The only reason i put Ben in Kenny's group is to make them even. Yes she is the only medic, but the question is does the pros out weigh the cons. Ofcourse i want to keep the medic, but I would also have to keep the other two people. One that would attract zombies (Duck) and one that would not have my back if my life depended on it (Kenny).
Tried out the kill Larry path a couple nights ago, definitely not going to be a playthrough I'll strive to try again as I felt really bad and horrible through it, but it was funny to see Lily not only not help you with the first St John brother, instead having Kenny watch my back, but also not only do nothing to save me from the electric fence but even brings Clem out with her to watch as you quite possibly get killed. I understand her not wanting me to live in that playthrough, but geese don't bring the little girl whose already been traumatised by one death out to potentially see another at least!! (Yeah, I know Lee doesn't do much to shield Clem in the freezer but then he's busy trying to hold Lily back then, and it's not like it's Clem's fault either way!).
Quote:
Originally Posted by CapnJay
Kenny's a great guy if you side with him 100% of the time otherwise...
I wonder how many people would shoot kenny in the back soon as they get to his boat and get it running
Ah that would be a great choice to make.
I wish I could agree with this, but at that point Kenny becomes the only person who knows the water ways and how to find the fish. He also is the only one that can fix the boat. I will not get to the point where Kenny is my only hope.
The point is to protect the present, maybe? During a zombie apocalypse children are liability. Even if you are alone, according to your "I'm a rational player" logic, Shawn should be the first choice. If not, then your rationalism is a bit inconsistent.
Well, if we are going to be PURELY rational, then you should side with Kenny in the meat locker to secure a place on the boat with his Wife, who has medical training. Siding with Lilly gets you nothing in terms of "usefulness".
i sided with kenny just because he was a pretty likeable character in episode 1. yeah, he ran away but he saved his kid. and as someone said earlier, he has the boat. siding with him does give lee an oportunity to sort of get away from the walkers.
also, i don't like lilly and larry at all.
Anyone remembers, back on Drugstore, that Larry punched Lee to LET HIM DIE? He tries to kill Lee!
Besides, no one in the room it's a medic and he stops breathing. Enough. Larry doesn't deserve more time or efforts. And dealing with a zombie with the Larry's size it's not easy. They need to act quickly.
I'm sorry for Lilly, I swear.
At the moment, here's a Kenny supporter.
Nice one Rip, "The Larry" is almost as good as "The Steam" LOL
can you imagine if lily shifted gears and became devoted to protecting and caring for clementine now that larrys dead so your forced to choose between Kenny or the womans whose becoming Clementines surrogate mom
Sisterofshane, I'm not the rational player, you are For me putting Lilly away from her father was the most cruel thing I've probably seen in a video game. I would never make that choice. I hardly bore to watch someone else do it.
All her begging and crying... she just didn't deserve to be treated like that.
If real me was there in that scene and I had no other choice, I guess I would do it... but not like that. In that scene (siding with Kenny) I hate Lee more than anyone else.
Sisterofshane, I'm not the rational player, you are For me putting Lilly away from her father was the most cruel thing I've probably seen in a video game. I would never make that choice. I hardly bore to watch someone else do it.
All her begging and crying... she just didn't deserve to be treated like that.
If real me was there in that scene and I had no other choice, I guess I would do it... but not like that. In that scene (siding with Kenny) I hate Lee more than anyone else.
I felt exactly the same way. Pulling Lily away is horrible. I tried siding with Kenny on my second playthrough, and I just barely got through it. I felt so awful afterward that I immediately quit the game and deleted that save file. I had to watch a YouTube playthrough to see how the rest of it played out.
also whats really interesting is side with kenny and your arm gets sore from pulling her and struggling with the fence. side with her and it's alot easier
the thing about Kenny its that in reverse situations...i would jump on danny and try to help out...cause 2x1 is better than 1x1.
I don`t hate him because of that(people do get scared or some other stuff) i just don`t trust him anymore
Ya but it's not fear that keeps him there. You tried to save Larry, in his black and white rationale, that means you are no longer an obedient tool he can use to protect his family, and are now expendable.
Larry had to die, just not that way and not that fast.
Well, if we are going to be PURELY rational, then you should side with Kenny in the meat locker to secure a place on the boat with his Wife, who has medical training. Siding with Lilly gets you nothing in terms of "usefulness".
Except that (atleast in my view) Lilly's the more level-headed, competent survivor/leader, i.e. she thinks things through. We've seen that Kenny doesn't handle a crisis as well, and it's not like there won't be another one at some point.
There's also no guarantee that his boat will be functional or even be there at all by the time we reach it, and that's if we can reach it: coastal areas are the most densely populated (i.e. where the undead are realistically going to be thickest). There's also the fact that you can't simply remain at sea indefinitely while singing "Row row row your boat...", due to the need for stuff like freshwater, vitamin C, fuel, etc. so you're going to need to make forays back to the densely populated coast eventually.
can you imagine if lily shifted gears and became devoted to protecting and caring for clementine now that larrys dead so your forced to choose between Kenny or the womans whose becoming Clementines surrogate mom
We kinda see that from her even before Larry's death. Right at the beginning of Episode 2 Lilly's watching over Clementine, in Jolene's video you see Lilly spending time with Clem, etc.
Except that (atleast in my view) Lilly's the more level-headed, competent survivor/leader, i.e. she thinks things through. We've seen that Kenny doesn't handle a crisis as well, and it's not like there won't be another one at some point.
There's also no guarantee that his boat will be functional or even be there at all by the time we reach it, and that's if we can reach it: coastal areas are the most densely populated (i.e. where the undead are realistically going to be thickest). There's also the fact that you can't simply remain at sea indefinitely while singing "Row row row your boat...", due to the need for stuff like freshwater, vitamin C, fuel, etc. so you're going to need to make forays back to the densely populated coast eventually.
I can agree that Kenny is often brash, but he doesn't ALWAYS make the wrong choice. Lilly is more level-headed, but too devoted to maintaining the "status quo" to see that some risks have more potential to be positive than negative. Neither mentality is the proper way to ensure long-term survival. As for leadership, I think one thing the game is attempting to show us is that neither Lilly OR Kenny are suited to lead the group. It really is time for Lee to step up.
I also agree that the boat doesn't guarantee safety, but in a pinch, being on the open ocean is ALWAYS going to be safer than anywhere you could be on land (that doesn't mean "Leave on the Boat and never come back", that means when the situation on the coast gets too dangerous, you can try to wait it out on the boat, because the danger won't be constant). Also, Kenny has a useful skill as a fisherman - and the ocean has always been a plentiful source of food for humans (one that, unlike land animals, is NOT also a food source for the walkers). Basically, the Boat would offer you about the same overall safety as the Motor Inn, but with a better source of food. Factor in Katjaa's medical knowledge (while limited to animals, is still vastly superior to anyone else), and I can't see why anyone would stay at the Motor Inn (where you risk your life doing anything but sitting there, starving).
I can agree that Kenny is often brash, but he doesn't ALWAYS make the wrong choice. Lilly is more level-headed, but too devoted to maintaining the "status quo" to see that some risks have more potential to be positive than negative. Neither mentality is the proper way to ensure long-term survival. As for leadership, I think one thing the game is attempting to show us is that neither Lilly OR Kenny are suited to lead the group. It really is time for Lee to step up.
I also agree that the boat doesn't guarantee safety, but in a pinch, being on the open ocean is ALWAYS going to be safer than anywhere you could be on land (that doesn't mean "Leave on the Boat and never come back", that means when the situation on the coast gets too dangerous, you can try to wait it out on the boat, because the danger won't be constant). Also, Kenny has a useful skill as a fisherman - and the ocean has always been a plentiful source of food for humans (one that, unlike land animals, is NOT also a food source for the walkers). Basically, the Boat would offer you about the same overall safety as the Motor Inn, but with a better source of food. Factor in Katjaa's medical knowledge (while limited to animals, is still vastly superior to anyone else), and I can't see why anyone would stay at the Motor Inn (where you risk your life doing anything but sitting there, starving).
Actually, when possible, you do want to try and stay where you know the area, have security, etc. As the saying goes, "there is no ideal spot in survival". The one issue the inn has is lack of food (which I'd peg as being due to a lack of hunting experience), and the food shortage was a fairly recent development, as we learn from Mark and Lilly.
As said, the boat plan requires the assumption that it's still there, and is accessible - both of which are big unknowns. It's also in another state, so that's a bit of a trip for questionable gain.
When you can't guarantee regular access to fresh water (which is a far bigger issue than food, it takes weeks to die of starvation, dehydration will kill you in days), it's time to come up with another plan. Particularly when it requires returning to the areas that would realistically have the highest concentrations of zombies. That's the unavoidable sticky widget of the plan: if you can rationalize trying to forage for supplies in a coastal area in a zombie apocalypse, you can rationalize foraging for supplies almost anywhere on the mainland; odds are you'll be safer to boot. If (or more likely when) there's a crisis when the boat's docked for when you need to get supplies, you're screwed, especially depending on how many men you send ashore (because Lee and Kenny would be the only ones you could expect to defend the group, and I don't see Kenny sending out Katjaa or Duck to fetch supplies).
It's also not going to be all that safe in the Open Sea. Yeah, you don't have to worry about zombies so much, but the boat's in Florida where you have Hurricane Season... and the weather service is gone, so you probably won't know when one's coming, and when a storm or hurricane does tear the hell out of the coastline (i.e. where you hope to get supplies)? It's not getting rebuilt anymore. It's part of the reason why I consider it a gamble that the boat's even there, as far as I can tell the apocalypse started in the Summer and it's been three months since then - so if coastal Florida was yet again victimized by its weather, the boat very well could've been trashed/sunk and there'd be no way to know until we got there.
So safety and security are iffy. Yeah, you'll have regular access to food (but no guarantee of vitamin C, so you're taking the chance of developing scurvy just like pre-industrial seafarers), and you're also trading it for regular access to a fresh water source. And every trip to gather supplies from the mainland will take you into areas where the hypothetical Lee/Kenny group would encounter a far higher concetration of zombies than they have anywhere else.
me and kenny are good ol buddies, when or IF he gets a vehicle i intend to go with him.
also if you help him get rid of Larry, he does indeed help you deal with Danny, however
dont expect Lilly to help you with the other brother when he wants to fry your face on the wire
She helps you in that situation though, infact if you side with lilly she sides with you on both situationd with andy and danny. Whereas kenny only helps you in one situation
Fucking Kenny, I knew he was a prick after he left Shawn to die and now he shows it. The problem now is looking ahead, Lilly is leaving, which leaves me with Clem, Ben, Carley/Doug and Ken's group. It's a very small group if I tell Kenny to fuck off (as I want to) but there's also a question of punishing his family for his stupidity. Honestly I'd like to take Kenny out and have him succumb to a hunting "accident", the guy is selfish and a danger to the group.
Actually, when possible, you do want to try and stay where you know the area, have security, etc. As the saying goes, "there is no ideal spot in survival". The one issue the inn has is lack of food (which I'd peg as being due to a lack of hunting experience), and the food shortage was a fairly recent development, as we learn from Mark and Lilly.
As said, the boat plan requires the assumption that it's still there, and is accessible - both of which are big unknowns. It's also in another state, so that's a bit of a trip for questionable gain.
When you can't guarantee regular access to fresh water (which is a far bigger issue than food, it takes weeks to die of starvation, dehydration will kill you in days), it's time to come up with another plan. Particularly when it requires returning to the areas that would realistically have the highest concentrations of zombies. That's the unavoidable sticky widget of the plan: if you can rationalize trying to forage for supplies in a coastal area in a zombie apocalypse, you can rationalize foraging for supplies almost anywhere on the mainland; odds are you'll be safer to boot. If (or more likely when) there's a crisis when the boat's docked for when you need to get supplies, you're screwed, especially depending on how many men you send ashore (because Lee and Kenny would be the only ones you could expect to defend the group, and I don't see Kenny sending out Katjaa or Duck to fetch supplies).
It's also not going to be all that safe in the Open Sea. Yeah, you don't have to worry about zombies so much, but the boat's in Florida where you have Hurricane Season... and the weather service is gone, so you probably won't know when one's coming, and when a storm or hurricane does tear the hell out of the coastline (i.e. where you hope to get supplies)? It's not getting rebuilt anymore. It's part of the reason why I consider it a gamble that the boat's even there, as far as I can tell the apocalypse started in the Summer and it's been three months since then - so if coastal Florida was yet again victimized by its weather, the boat very well could've been trashed/sunk and there'd be no way to know until we got there.
So safety and security are iffy. Yeah, you'll have regular access to food (but no guarantee of vitamin C, so you're taking the chance of developing scurvy just like pre-industrial seafarers), and you're also trading it for regular access to a fresh water source. And every trip to gather supplies from the mainland will take you into areas where the hypothetical Lee/Kenny group would encounter a far higher concetration of zombies than they have anywhere else.
Excellent post, Rommel.
I don't think the garage where they are at is ideal anymore though due to the bandit situation (like the crazy girl said on the camcorder, "you'll be safe as long as the bandits have a food source", which they no longer have) but travelling hundreds of miles for a boat that almost certainly will not be there or accessible anymore is just idiotic.
In any case if they were to try their hand at life on the sea then they could much easier travel to the coast of Georgia and take a boat from there if possible.
The odds are that the people near the coast have already taken the boats and attempted to sail to other shores though, it's the same for Kenny's boat, someone would likely have already taken it (you don't need a key to start a boat). That presents another question though, what kind of boat has Kenny got? If it's a sailing boat then it's certainly gone as it could be taken with little effort, if it has an engine then where are they going to get all of this fuel to keep it running?
You do understand as long as you have his back he has yours right?
He ends up saving you at the "Danny execution" scene.
I saved his kid, sided with him against Larry, fed his kid at the store, and fed Duck again in episode 2 during the ration phase. Kenny acknowledged all these things, and didn't save me just because I refused to kill Larry? Bugger him. He straight up murdered Larry (right as I was starting to like the old bastard too!), left me for dead, and didn't even thank me for saving his worthless kid a second time.
At this time I think the boat is not the best idea. As other have stated drinking water, scurvy and the lack of knowing if the boat is even there anymore, makes it not the ideal risk. There is one thing that makes it even more of a too high risk for me now. PIRATES! I dont mean the Jonny Depp type. I mean the Somalia type. There are bandits in the woods, so that tells me there will be pirates on the water. Taking that in to account with the water, scurvy and the fact Kenny would sacrifice Lee and Clem to save his family means the boat is no longer my idea of a good idea.
I also wanted to thank everyone who made this game. Thank you for making a game that makes me want to kick small woodland animals in the face. This has to be one the best games I have played in a long time.
One thing I will say that is MOST revealing about Kenny's character versus Larry's...
Even if you choose to completely side with Larry about killing Kenny's kid, Kenny still comes back to save your life. Larry STILL tries to kill you, despite you agreeing with him and then saving his life by getting into the pharmacy.
Lets not mistake Kenny's character with game design.
He calls you an asshole while picking you up- and if wasnt there, the game ends.
And Im sure he does it only because you're an able bodied man who can help defend his family
At this time I think the boat is not the best idea. As other have stated drinking water, scurvy and the lack of knowing if the boat is even there anymore, makes it not the ideal risk. There is one thing that makes it even more of a too high risk for me now. PIRATES! I dont mean the Jonny Depp type. I mean the Somalia type. There are bandits in the woods, so that tells me there will be pirates on the water. Taking that in to account with the water, scurvy and the fact Kenny would sacrifice Lee and Clem to save his family means the boat is no longer my idea of a good idea.
No no, the boat is still a good idea. Just have to get Kenny out the way now.
More food/supplies for me and Clem. We wont go too far out, just to do a little fishing along the coast
No no, the boat is still a good idea. Just have to get Kenny out the way now.More food/supplies for me and Clem. We wont go too far out, just to do a little fishing along the coast
Comments
Iffy? What doyou mean?
Acting strangely
ok.... as he is going to knife you in the back? Please dont get me wrong I cannot trust Kenny. I just want to know what you saw so i can see it too.
Yes, its like he's upto something and it's not just looking after his family
Well he is up to something. It has been stated he plans on leaving as soon as he can fix the RV, With out the group and maybe with out Lee and Clem.
Tried out the kill Larry path a couple nights ago, definitely not going to be a playthrough I'll strive to try again as I felt really bad and horrible through it, but it was funny to see Lily not only not help you with the first St John brother, instead having Kenny watch my back, but also not only do nothing to save me from the electric fence but even brings Clem out with her to watch as you quite possibly get killed. I understand her not wanting me to live in that playthrough, but geese don't bring the little girl whose already been traumatised by one death out to potentially see another at least!! (Yeah, I know Lee doesn't do much to shield Clem in the freezer but then he's busy trying to hold Lily back then, and it's not like it's Clem's fault either way!).
Ah that would be a great choice to make.
Originally Posted by CapnJay
Kenny's a great guy if you side with him 100% of the time otherwise...
I wonder how many people would shoot kenny in the back soon as they get to his boat and get it running
Ah that would be a great choice to make.
I wish I could agree with this, but at that point Kenny becomes the only person who knows the water ways and how to find the fish. He also is the only one that can fix the boat. I will not get to the point where Kenny is my only hope.
Well, if we are going to be PURELY rational, then you should side with Kenny in the meat locker to secure a place on the boat with his Wife, who has medical training. Siding with Lilly gets you nothing in terms of "usefulness".
also, i don't like lilly and larry at all.
Nice one Rip, "The Larry" is almost as good as "The Steam" LOL
All her begging and crying... she just didn't deserve to be treated like that.
If real me was there in that scene and I had no other choice, I guess I would do it... but not like that. In that scene (siding with Kenny) I hate Lee more than anyone else.
I felt exactly the same way. Pulling Lily away is horrible. I tried siding with Kenny on my second playthrough, and I just barely got through it. I felt so awful afterward that I immediately quit the game and deleted that save file. I had to watch a YouTube playthrough to see how the rest of it played out.
Ya but it's not fear that keeps him there. You tried to save Larry, in his black and white rationale, that means you are no longer an obedient tool he can use to protect his family, and are now expendable.
Larry had to die, just not that way and not that fast.
Except that (atleast in my view) Lilly's the more level-headed, competent survivor/leader, i.e. she thinks things through. We've seen that Kenny doesn't handle a crisis as well, and it's not like there won't be another one at some point.
There's also no guarantee that his boat will be functional or even be there at all by the time we reach it, and that's if we can reach it: coastal areas are the most densely populated (i.e. where the undead are realistically going to be thickest). There's also the fact that you can't simply remain at sea indefinitely while singing "Row row row your boat...", due to the need for stuff like freshwater, vitamin C, fuel, etc. so you're going to need to make forays back to the densely populated coast eventually.
We kinda see that from her even before Larry's death. Right at the beginning of Episode 2 Lilly's watching over Clementine, in Jolene's video you see Lilly spending time with Clem, etc.
I can agree that Kenny is often brash, but he doesn't ALWAYS make the wrong choice. Lilly is more level-headed, but too devoted to maintaining the "status quo" to see that some risks have more potential to be positive than negative. Neither mentality is the proper way to ensure long-term survival. As for leadership, I think one thing the game is attempting to show us is that neither Lilly OR Kenny are suited to lead the group. It really is time for Lee to step up.
I also agree that the boat doesn't guarantee safety, but in a pinch, being on the open ocean is ALWAYS going to be safer than anywhere you could be on land (that doesn't mean "Leave on the Boat and never come back", that means when the situation on the coast gets too dangerous, you can try to wait it out on the boat, because the danger won't be constant). Also, Kenny has a useful skill as a fisherman - and the ocean has always been a plentiful source of food for humans (one that, unlike land animals, is NOT also a food source for the walkers). Basically, the Boat would offer you about the same overall safety as the Motor Inn, but with a better source of food. Factor in Katjaa's medical knowledge (while limited to animals, is still vastly superior to anyone else), and I can't see why anyone would stay at the Motor Inn (where you risk your life doing anything but sitting there, starving).
Actually, when possible, you do want to try and stay where you know the area, have security, etc. As the saying goes, "there is no ideal spot in survival". The one issue the inn has is lack of food (which I'd peg as being due to a lack of hunting experience), and the food shortage was a fairly recent development, as we learn from Mark and Lilly.
As said, the boat plan requires the assumption that it's still there, and is accessible - both of which are big unknowns. It's also in another state, so that's a bit of a trip for questionable gain.
When you can't guarantee regular access to fresh water (which is a far bigger issue than food, it takes weeks to die of starvation, dehydration will kill you in days), it's time to come up with another plan. Particularly when it requires returning to the areas that would realistically have the highest concentrations of zombies. That's the unavoidable sticky widget of the plan: if you can rationalize trying to forage for supplies in a coastal area in a zombie apocalypse, you can rationalize foraging for supplies almost anywhere on the mainland; odds are you'll be safer to boot. If (or more likely when) there's a crisis when the boat's docked for when you need to get supplies, you're screwed, especially depending on how many men you send ashore (because Lee and Kenny would be the only ones you could expect to defend the group, and I don't see Kenny sending out Katjaa or Duck to fetch supplies).
It's also not going to be all that safe in the Open Sea. Yeah, you don't have to worry about zombies so much, but the boat's in Florida where you have Hurricane Season... and the weather service is gone, so you probably won't know when one's coming, and when a storm or hurricane does tear the hell out of the coastline (i.e. where you hope to get supplies)? It's not getting rebuilt anymore. It's part of the reason why I consider it a gamble that the boat's even there, as far as I can tell the apocalypse started in the Summer and it's been three months since then - so if coastal Florida was yet again victimized by its weather, the boat very well could've been trashed/sunk and there'd be no way to know until we got there.
So safety and security are iffy. Yeah, you'll have regular access to food (but no guarantee of vitamin C, so you're taking the chance of developing scurvy just like pre-industrial seafarers), and you're also trading it for regular access to a fresh water source. And every trip to gather supplies from the mainland will take you into areas where the hypothetical Lee/Kenny group would encounter a far higher concetration of zombies than they have anywhere else.
I don't think the garage where they are at is ideal anymore though due to the bandit situation (like the crazy girl said on the camcorder, "you'll be safe as long as the bandits have a food source", which they no longer have) but travelling hundreds of miles for a boat that almost certainly will not be there or accessible anymore is just idiotic.
The odds are that the people near the coast have already taken the boats and attempted to sail to other shores though, it's the same for Kenny's boat, someone would likely have already taken it (you don't need a key to start a boat). That presents another question though, what kind of boat has Kenny got? If it's a sailing boat then it's certainly gone as it could be taken with little effort, if it has an engine then where are they going to get all of this fuel to keep it running?
I saved his kid, sided with him against Larry, fed his kid at the store, and fed Duck again in episode 2 during the ration phase. Kenny acknowledged all these things, and didn't save me just because I refused to kill Larry? Bugger him. He straight up murdered Larry (right as I was starting to like the old bastard too!), left me for dead, and didn't even thank me for saving his worthless kid a second time.
Lets not mistake Kenny's character with game design.
He calls you an asshole while picking you up- and if wasnt there, the game ends.
And Im sure he does it only because you're an able bodied man who can help defend his family
No no, the boat is still a good idea. Just have to get Kenny out the way now.
More food/supplies for me and Clem. We wont go too far out, just to do a little fishing along the coast
It shows they have made believable and relatable characters.
lol ok but would that make you just like Kenny?
Dont forget the Pirates.
Hey, Mr. Duck, how are you doing, pal?
I meant "the size", not "the Larry" but it's a good one too.