I know what would fix it! Could you draw her in Steve Purcell's style? And make it Anemone instead of Elaine?
In all seriousness though, I love all of the constructive criticism in this thread and encourage it to continue, just make sure everyone keeps it constructive.
I know what would fix it! Could you draw her in Steve Purcell's style? And make it Anemone instead of Elaine?
In all seriousness though, I love all of the constructive criticism in this thread and encourage it to continue, just make sure everyone keeps it constructive.
Your wish is my command.
(not great, but not bad for never trying to draw in his style before ever)
Okay, I have absolutely no clue how useful (or not!) that might be, but here are pictures as promised!
I cut off the heads so you won't know it's me.
First I tried with something fitted. Unfortunately it's black so you can't see anything, so I won't post the pictures. Except one of my torso from behind for the shape of the waist. You can see it barely gets smaller, and definitely not suddenly (getting suddenly thinner makes it looks like it's the ribcage as stated previously). Of course that changes from one woman to the next.
So then I switched to a different-coloured shirt, but it's also looser. As a result it doesn't follow my shapes very much.
So I "tucked" the shirt under my breasts so you'd see better. Not sure how conclusive that was
Now, in all of these pictures, the breasts look round(ed). Why? Breasts aren't round, right? They're kinda pointy where the nipple is.
Well that's because of the clothes. They're pressed against the fabric, and that makes them rounder. The only way to keep the exact shape while wearing clothes is to wear clothes that already have the shape of breasts. Like "pockets" or something. Otherwise it's either tight and shapes the breasts, or loose and then you can't see the shapes anymore.
Not sure how useful any of that was... Naked pictures would be more useful but something tells me posting them here would be frowned upon.
Okay, I have absolutely no clue how useful (or not!) that might be, but here are pictures as promised!
I cut off the heads so you won't know it's me.
Yup. Uh huh. I don't know who that is.
First I tried with something fitted. Unfortunately it's black so you can't see anything, so I won't post the pictures. Except one of my torso from behind for the shape of the waist. You can see it barely gets smaller, and definitely not suddenly (getting suddenly thinner makes it looks like it's the ribcage as stated previously). Of course that changes from one woman to the next. Now, in all of these pictures, the breasts look round(ed). Why? Breasts aren't round, right? They're kinda pointy where the nipple is.
Well that's because of the clothes. They're pressed against the fabric, and that makes them rounder. The only way to keep the exact shape while wearing clothes is to wear clothes that already have the shape of breasts. Like "pockets" or something. Otherwise it's either tight and shapes the breasts, or loose and then you can't see the shapes anymore.
A couple of things of note from this-
1. What I've had wrong on the waist then is that the major curve comes where the waist meets the hips, not in the middle of the waist. I thought cartoonish styles added a huge curve in the waist but I was completely wrong; the waist tends to stay the same size until the hips and then theres a sharp curve. The illusion that tricked me into thinking this was that most cartoonish styles have the waist small and the hips rather large, so I thought that the waist had to curve to keep proportionally correct with the hips. That's a huge difference. I can see that mistake in every single picture I posted outside of Carla. That's wonderful though! Now I'll be able to avoid that in the future.
2. If the pointyness of the nipple doesn't normally make it through the clothes, why do so many artists draw that pointyness anyway? Is there a reason, or is it just unrealistic exaggeration.
3. The difference in how the breasts shape based on how the arms move. I tend to forget that the breasts and arms are somewhat interconnected muscles and tissue (I think) so the movement of the arms should affect the shape of the chest in different ways. The same for the posture of the back.
There's a lot of stuff to keep in mind.
4. As mentioned before, there's the issue of drawing bra or no bra. These pictures (I'm fairly sure you're not wearing a bra) give a pretty good illustration of how the clothes work in relation to the breasts when a bra isn't involved. And the final version of Elaine seems to be a lot closer to it, so that's good. Unless you were wearing a bra; then I have no idea what I'm talking about, haha.
Thanks to this topic and all the much-appreciated knowledge everyone has been sharing, I now know more about breasts than Hugh Hefner. Which isn't hard because he probably never saw a REAL breast before in his entire life.
2. If the pointyness of the nipple doesn't normally make it through the clothes, why do so many artists draw that pointyness anyway? Is there a reason, or is it just unrealistic exaggeration.
I'm not sure if it's artistic license or force of habit (people tend to learn to draw people naked, then add the clothes on). It could be a bit of both. It shouldn't be shocking if you still draw it "pointy" since as you said that's common.
It might also depend on the cut of the bra if there is one, and how cold the weather is.
3. The difference in how the breasts shape based on how the arms move. I tend to forget that the breasts and arms are somewhat interconnected muscles and tissue (I think) so the movement of the arms should affect the shape of the chest in different ways.
Not really muscles, there aren't muscles in breasts which is why they sag. But connected by skin and I guess tendons and the like, yes. That's what I was trying to express with the liquid thing. Because breasts aren't a solid block, when the skin moves the shape changes to adapt.
Most notably, when you lift your arms up it pulls up the skin.
4. As mentioned before, there's the issue of drawing bra or no bra. These pictures (I'm fairly sure you're not wearing a bra) give a pretty good illustration of how the clothes work in relation to the breasts when a bra isn't involved.
Yes, I took them without a bra since you said you were trying to draw them braless. And also it's easier to see how moving affect the breasts if there is no bra.
A bra would hold the breasts up and closer to the body to keep them in place so moving would have less effect on them. The tighter the bra, the more the breasts are held in place. That's how sports bra work (mostly to avoid bouncing while exercising).
Thanks to this topic and all the much-appreciated knowledge everyone has been sharing, I now know more about breasts than Hugh Hefner. Which isn't hard because he probably never saw a REAL breast before in his entire life.
I've been enjoying this topic, too.
(Teehee, boobies.)
As with most things on this forum, it started off perfectly normally (in this case, as part of the Legendary Fan Art thread), and then went crazy awry (necessitating the topic to be split).
I've not read all of this thread (I don't have the balls boobs), but I have a few things to say based on what I did read.
(this isn't directed at any one person, it's just general advice)
1. DISREGARD ANYTHING ROB LIEFELD DRAWS.
2. If you want to be good at drawing cartoony characters, get good at drawing lifelike characters first. It helps an unbelievable amount. If you better understand proportions and anatomy then your cartoons will look a lot better. Rob Liefeld is an example of someone who doesn't know anything about anatomy.
3. DISREGARD ANYTHING ROB LIEFELD DRAWS.
4. It really helps when drawing people to sketch out dolls/skeletons of them first. I never used to do this, but when I started I realised how helpful it can be. Incidentally, it really help with drawing hands. Here's an example of what I'm talking about:
The proportions and perspectives aren't quite right but that's because I only spent a few minutes on it. If you spend long enough perfecting them, dolls like this can really improve the look of your drawings.
HaHA! Found it. A couple years back I read a really great article on Sequential Tart about this very subject. She's had a couple of articles along this line, but this is probably most relevant to the topic at hand: http://www.sequentialtart.com/archive/july02/bb_0702.shtml
HaHA! Found it. A couple years back I read a really great article on Sequential Tart about this very subject. She's had a couple of articles along this line, but this is probably most relevant to the topic at hand: http://www.sequentialtart.com/archive/july02/bb_0702.shtml
Thanks for the link.
I do sketch out dolls/lines/shapes/skeletons to build any living creature before drawing them. And I am good at drawing lifelike characters. I don't do it a lot, but I am good at it. And before Cello mentioned him I'd never heard of Rob Liefeld before, and from what I've seen I don't plan on studying his style at all.
I'll post some hand pictures later on :P
Sweet! BTW that gives way for an even more awkward topic title.
[announcer voice]HANDS AND BOOBS: AN ARTISTIC DISCUSSION.[/announcer voice]
Okay, I wanted to help wth the waist, so I took naked pictures. But I'm not allowed to post these here so I traced over one of them so you can see the outline (I traced with a mouse so yes, it's shaky, sorry):
I added the lines to show two things:
a) (green): The breasts follow the arms as previously discussed. Skin-wise, the underside of the arm become the side of the breast. The skin between the neck and the shoulder becomes the top of the breast. That might help you know exactly how things move when the arms move.
Although the best would be to find people to pose for you, or find pre-posed models to drawn in magazines and such (or online).
The problem with magazine and online is that you can't be sure the pictures haven't been altered. Altered pictures might sell more but they're less helpful to learn to draw.
b) (red): from the arms to the waist, the decrease is continuous, and much slower then at the hips (in my case. If the hips are narrower then the hip increase is slower too, of course).
Sharp "turns" when drawing someone give the impression of something more solid, usually either muscles or bones. They work well when drawing males (if placed correctly of course), but when drawing a female it can give an effect of them being skinny or more athletic than you might be aiming for.
You'll notice after the hips it gets smaller then wider again. The "wider again" is the thighs.
Here is a (not altered) picture of someone with a different body type:
There isn't as big a difference at the hips because they're not as wide, but you do get a second increase at the thighs.
@Will: nice article you posted, thanks for the link
I feel this is an opportune time to cross post my Galbrush art from the creepy fan art thread...... are the boobs right? <--- impossible question to answer.
avistew, you are hereby awarded a genuine virtual King's Medal of Merit, gold class. The King's Medal of Merit was instituted by Norwegian King Haakon VII in 1908, and is divided into two classes of which gold is the highest. The ribbon carries the colours of the Royal Standard of Norway. This medal is awarded for extraordinary achievements of importance to the nation or society, in the fields of art, science, business or public service.
You are awarded the virtual medal for the following achievements:
For extraordinary efforts above and beyond the call of duty in furthering the noblest of goals: The accurate artistic depiction of female breasts.
For encouraging cooperation and understanding between people of all nations and races by inspiring work toward that common goal.
For demonstrating that, while no pair of boobs is identical to any other, all of humankind are equal in their appreciation of those breasts.
Wear it proudly. May you forever stand as a shining example of excellence, and may all people of the earth be inspired by your actions here today.
Okay, I wanted to help wth the waist, so I took naked pictures. But I'm not allowed to post these here so I traced over one of them so you can see the outline (I traced with a mouse so yes, it's shaky, sorry):
I added the lines to show two things:
a) (green): The breasts follow the arms as previously discussed. Skin-wise, the underside of the arm become the side of the breast. The skin between the neck and the shoulder becomes the top of the breast. That might help you know exactly how things move when the arms move.
Although the best would be to find people to pose for you, or find pre-posed models to drawn in magazines and such (or online).
The problem with magazine and online is that you can't be sure the pictures haven't been altered. Altered pictures might sell more but they're less helpful to learn to draw.
b) (red): from the arms to the waist, the decrease is continuous, and much slower then at the hips (in my case. If the hips are narrower then the hip increase is slower too, of course).
Sharp "turns" when drawing someone give the impression of something more solid, usually either muscles or bones. They work well when drawing males (if placed correctly of course), but when drawing a female it can give an effect of them being skinny or more athletic than you might be aiming for.
You'll notice after the hips it gets smaller then wider again. The "wider again" is the thighs.
Here is a (not altered) picture of someone with a different body type:
There isn't as big a difference at the hips because they're not as wide, but you do get a second increase at the thighs.
I notice in most more realistic styles the change between hips and thighs are emphasized, drastically so in these cases -
but with more cartoonish styles its thrown out all together-
I am both honoured and humbled (can you be both at the same time?)
Thank you, thank you *bows right and left while looking at medal and smiling*
EDIT: Yes, Fawful, there are things you don't respect about anatomy when drawing in a cartoonish style. However I find it's still useful to know it, even when you choose to do it differently.
Comments
@Jen Kollic - It does. Someone should make that.
Better?
Yeah. But do you really think that hairstyle is suitable?
In all seriousness though, I love all of the constructive criticism in this thread and encourage it to continue, just make sure everyone keeps it constructive.
Now I want to see this. Somebody do this.
No Steve Purcell-style, but I do have an unfinished sketch of Alemonade in... fishnet
you monster!!!
Are you asking for a CHALLEEEEEEEEENGE?!
Seriously though, I should totally write that. And post it somewhere that isn't this forum, because it won't be mind-safe, let alone work-safe.
Your wish is my command.
(not great, but not bad for never trying to draw in his style before ever)
@Jen - Yes. I challenge you.
Since you asked nicely. And because I'm having fun. Let's see, who does that leave I haven't done now...
Bosun Krebbs and Kate Capsize?
I have no idea just what direction shes running in. Meh, she must be in "mean drunk mode".
I cut off the heads so you won't know it's me.
First I tried with something fitted. Unfortunately it's black so you can't see anything, so I won't post the pictures. Except one of my torso from behind for the shape of the waist. You can see it barely gets smaller, and definitely not suddenly (getting suddenly thinner makes it looks like it's the ribcage as stated previously). Of course that changes from one woman to the next.
So then I switched to a different-coloured shirt, but it's also looser. As a result it doesn't follow my shapes very much.
So I "tucked" the shirt under my breasts so you'd see better. Not sure how conclusive that was
Now, in all of these pictures, the breasts look round(ed). Why? Breasts aren't round, right? They're kinda pointy where the nipple is.
Well that's because of the clothes. They're pressed against the fabric, and that makes them rounder. The only way to keep the exact shape while wearing clothes is to wear clothes that already have the shape of breasts. Like "pockets" or something. Otherwise it's either tight and shapes the breasts, or loose and then you can't see the shapes anymore.
Not sure how useful any of that was... Naked pictures would be more useful but something tells me posting them here would be frowned upon.
A couple of things of note from this-
1. What I've had wrong on the waist then is that the major curve comes where the waist meets the hips, not in the middle of the waist. I thought cartoonish styles added a huge curve in the waist but I was completely wrong; the waist tends to stay the same size until the hips and then theres a sharp curve. The illusion that tricked me into thinking this was that most cartoonish styles have the waist small and the hips rather large, so I thought that the waist had to curve to keep proportionally correct with the hips. That's a huge difference. I can see that mistake in every single picture I posted outside of Carla.
2. If the pointyness of the nipple doesn't normally make it through the clothes, why do so many artists draw that pointyness anyway? Is there a reason, or is it just unrealistic exaggeration.
3. The difference in how the breasts shape based on how the arms move. I tend to forget that the breasts and arms are somewhat interconnected muscles and tissue (I think) so the movement of the arms should affect the shape of the chest in different ways. The same for the posture of the back.
There's a lot of stuff to keep in mind.
4. As mentioned before, there's the issue of drawing bra or no bra. These pictures (I'm fairly sure you're not wearing a bra) give a pretty good illustration of how the clothes work in relation to the breasts when a bra isn't involved. And the final version of Elaine seems to be a lot closer to it, so that's good. Unless you were wearing a bra; then I have no idea what I'm talking about, haha.
Thanks to this topic and all the much-appreciated knowledge everyone has been sharing, I now know more about breasts than Hugh Hefner. Which isn't hard because he probably never saw a REAL breast before in his entire life.
I'm not sure if it's artistic license or force of habit (people tend to learn to draw people naked, then add the clothes on). It could be a bit of both. It shouldn't be shocking if you still draw it "pointy" since as you said that's common.
It might also depend on the cut of the bra if there is one, and how cold the weather is.
Not really muscles, there aren't muscles in breasts which is why they sag. But connected by skin and I guess tendons and the like, yes. That's what I was trying to express with the liquid thing. Because breasts aren't a solid block, when the skin moves the shape changes to adapt.
Most notably, when you lift your arms up it pulls up the skin.
Yes, I took them without a bra since you said you were trying to draw them braless. And also it's easier to see how moving affect the breasts if there is no bra.
A bra would hold the breasts up and closer to the body to keep them in place so moving would have less effect on them. The tighter the bra, the more the breasts are held in place. That's how sports bra work (mostly to avoid bouncing while exercising).
I've been enjoying this topic, too.
(Teehee, boobies.)
As with most things on this forum, it started off perfectly normally (in this case, as part of the Legendary Fan Art thread), and then went crazy awry (necessitating the topic to be split).
Let's all post our (most of them probably man)boobies!
You, sir, are a pip. *applauds*
(this isn't directed at any one person, it's just general advice)
1. DISREGARD ANYTHING ROB LIEFELD DRAWS.
2. If you want to be good at drawing cartoony characters, get good at drawing lifelike characters first. It helps an unbelievable amount. If you better understand proportions and anatomy then your cartoons will look a lot better. Rob Liefeld is an example of someone who doesn't know anything about anatomy.
3. DISREGARD ANYTHING ROB LIEFELD DRAWS.
4. It really helps when drawing people to sketch out dolls/skeletons of them first. I never used to do this, but when I started I realised how helpful it can be. Incidentally, it really help with drawing hands. Here's an example of what I'm talking about:
The proportions and perspectives aren't quite right but that's because I only spent a few minutes on it. If you spend long enough perfecting them, dolls like this can really improve the look of your drawings.
I'll post some hand pictures later on
ELL OH ELL! I've been on Kotaku too long... my first instinct was to nominate that for Comment of the Week.
Thanks for the link.
I do sketch out dolls/lines/shapes/skeletons to build any living creature before drawing them. And I am good at drawing lifelike characters. I don't do it a lot, but I am good at it. And before Cello mentioned him I'd never heard of Rob Liefeld before, and from what I've seen I don't plan on studying his style at all.
Sweet! BTW that gives way for an even more awkward topic title.
[announcer voice]HANDS AND BOOBS: AN ARTISTIC DISCUSSION.[/announcer voice]
I added the lines to show two things:
a) (green): The breasts follow the arms as previously discussed. Skin-wise, the underside of the arm become the side of the breast. The skin between the neck and the shoulder becomes the top of the breast. That might help you know exactly how things move when the arms move.
Although the best would be to find people to pose for you, or find pre-posed models to drawn in magazines and such (or online).
The problem with magazine and online is that you can't be sure the pictures haven't been altered. Altered pictures might sell more but they're less helpful to learn to draw.
b) (red): from the arms to the waist, the decrease is continuous, and much slower then at the hips (in my case. If the hips are narrower then the hip increase is slower too, of course).
Sharp "turns" when drawing someone give the impression of something more solid, usually either muscles or bones. They work well when drawing males (if placed correctly of course), but when drawing a female it can give an effect of them being skinny or more athletic than you might be aiming for.
You'll notice after the hips it gets smaller then wider again. The "wider again" is the thighs.
Here is a (not altered) picture of someone with a different body type:
There isn't as big a difference at the hips because they're not as wide, but you do get a second increase at the thighs.
@Will: nice article you posted, thanks for the link
Who doesn't love a good rhetorical question?
This disturbs me. I think it's because it almost looks like she's breathing and her heart it pumping hard and fast while her eye is tweaking out.
You are awarded the virtual medal for the following achievements:
- For extraordinary efforts above and beyond the call of duty in furthering the noblest of goals: The accurate artistic depiction of female breasts.
- For encouraging cooperation and understanding between people of all nations and races by inspiring work toward that common goal.
- For demonstrating that, while no pair of boobs is identical to any other, all of humankind are equal in their appreciation of those breasts.
Wear it proudly. May you forever stand as a shining example of excellence, and may all people of the earth be inspired by your actions here today.but with more cartoonish styles its thrown out all together-
Thank you, thank you *bows right and left while looking at medal and smiling*
EDIT: Yes, Fawful, there are things you don't respect about anatomy when drawing in a cartoonish style. However I find it's still useful to know it, even when you choose to do it differently.
Reason #23 why I love Bruce Timm right there. Also, this is what I meant when I mentioned that DC likes to screw around with Harley's chest size...