Sam & Max The Devil's Playhouse: The Penal Zone discussion!

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  • edited April 2010
    finished the episode, was soo funny :D
    was the mole man cult a clue to the series Legend of the Seeker (the prophecy, box, max the guy of the truth and so on... ? was kind of funny :D
  • edited April 2010
    Asto wrote: »
    was the mole man cult a clue to the series Legend of the Seeker (the prophecy, box, max the guy of the truth and so on... ? was kind of funny :D
    I am pretty sure it's just a cliche...
    And used before in (for example) Maoi Better Blues or Max's Big Day (TV Show episode).
    And that's just Sam&Max stuff...
  • edited April 2010
    Wow. I mean really wow. Getting better all the time, Telltale!
  • edited April 2010
    Just to add my two cents and pocket lint......

    I thought it was great! I was a bit nervous about the whole special powers thing and some of the interface changes but it all worked very well. I have no complaints about the click & drag, although I was one of the (apparently few) people who didn't mind it at all in ToMI. A little quirky sometimes, but then even point & click had occasional glitches.

    I suppose I should have been taking notes to help the Telltale team, but I did notice a few typos & mis-wording in the subtitles. Certainly not a show-stopper and it is probably just nitpicking. :) While I make the occasional typo myself, these things just have a tendency to jump out at me.

    The only noticeable glitch I ran into was one time I entered Momma Bosco's somewhat late in the episode and once the automated walking-into-the-room sequence was over, I intended to go to the elevator and go to the lower floor. I clicked on the elevator and we walked outside! I walked back in and hovered the mouse over the elevator and sure enough it showed it as an exit to outside. I repositioned myself a bit and the hotspot showed the correct destination.


    Anyhoo, great job to everyone at Telltale and I look forward to the upcoming episodes! I think the season is off to a great start!
  • edited April 2010
    I have not played the episode yet, I am at the beginning in the tutorial section. One question and no spoilers past that please.

    Little spoiler:
    Why the homing beacon of Skunkape works with the penal zone? I don't get it. The homing beacon is put on Sam so he cant escape. Why does it work with the remote? (No Spoilers please, I'm at the beginning) is this a plot hole?
  • edited April 2010
    Zodler wrote: »
    I have not played the episode yet, I am at the beginning in the tutorial section. One question and no spoilers past that please.

    Little spoiler:
    Why the homing beacon of Skunkape works with the penal zone? I don't get it. The homing beacon is put on Sam so he cant escape. Why does it work with the remote? (No Spoilers please, I'm at the beginning) is this a plot hole?
    Spoiler one: You'll understand everything when you get further in the story. No plothole here. Spoiler two is a major spoiler;
    Beginning of the game doesn't give you much of the whole story. HA.
  • edited April 2010
    I have to say this episode is a great start. Sam's graphically improved character model looks reminiscent of the one from the cancelled Lucasarts game.
  • edited April 2010
    Zodler wrote: »
    Why the homing beacon of Skunkape works with the penal zone? I don't get it. The homing beacon is put on Sam so he cant escape. Why does it work with the remote? (No Spoilers please, I'm at the beginning) is this a plot hole?
    You're making assumptions...
    ...the wrong assumptions.
  • edited April 2010
    Zodler wrote: »
    I have not played the episode yet, I am at the beginning in the tutorial section. One question and no spoilers past that please.

    Little spoiler:
    Why the homing beacon of Skunkape works with the penal zone? I don't get it. The homing beacon is put on Sam so he cant escape. Why does it work with the remote? (No Spoilers please, I'm at the beginning) is this a plot hole?

    Don't you think you should just keep playing? It's kinda pointless to ask for plotholes when you're just at the beginning. It's a common aspect of storytelling, that the story is told along the way...
  • edited April 2010
    I've got a feeling that this season's gonna get well complex, with all this mucking about with the future malarkey and pyschic powers. Proably why they gave Sam a notebook, so we could keep track of it all
  • edited April 2010
    had a few control bugs, but nothing gamebreaking; nothing I even needed to quit-then-restart from.

    The humor is still there and still top-notch. I was surprised at the graphical upgrade. WHile I grew fond of the old, demented-Saturday-Morning-Cartoon art direction, the addition of textures really does make the world seem dirtier and grittier.

    Also, as someone who lives in Brooklyn, I very much appreciated the more overt references to New York City. All in all, thumbs up!
  • edited April 2010
    I just finished the "The Penal Zone" and I have only two words: Pure (freaking) Genius! Okay, that's three words and some punctuation, but you get the picture. Loved it, and can't wait for the next games! Maybe the next Monkey Island series will incorporate some of the new features, or something even better?
  • edited April 2010
    I just finished the episode!

    Graphics look simply amazing. Both from a technical and art design standpoint.

    Music was, as always brilliant. Especially on Skunkape's ship at the start, that music is incredible. Lots of really good music in this one.

    Writing was excellent. The jokes, the references, the plotting and pacing? Well done on all accounts.

    UI changes are universally good, and almost perfectly implemented.

    Content-wise, this episode had a lot of meat to it. Areas, things to say, lots of plot to go through. It's probably one of Telltale's longer episodes.

    I have to admit to being swept away and heavily impressed by these, so this next niggling issue felt fairly minor, but I'm not going to be happy if it persists:

    Future Vision. Get rid of it, use it less, or make it more vague, or something. For the vast majority of puzzles, it felt like "Use Future Vision and...do what it tells me to do". The puzzles this episode were pretty weak overall, and I never felt too challenged by anything. I turned off hints before even starting the game, but there's no "Turn Off Future Vision" button.

    Remember that you're making a game, Telltale, and that at some point the player has to feel engaged by something other than writing, music, environments, and well-implemented UI. The final puzzle for this episode was....well, pretty weak.
  • edited April 2010
    I thought the latinesque theme for the street was rather strange at first, but then it grew on me.

    Also, there was a weird bug that when I went into the inventory, I could no longer click on anything. Luckily I had just saved prior, but it's perhaps something that you guys may want to look into.
  • edited April 2010
    I loved it, and I love how this is setting up the season to be one long interconnected story, like ToMI and slightly like season 2. (I reckon that when we see the cutscene/commentary thing on the dvd, it could very well run over an hour long).

    One thing to say; I feel like we are relying too much on the toys of power, instead of other items, and I have to say that it isnt the same without the "use gun" feature turning the cursor into a crosshair.
  • edited April 2010
    I just finished the episode!

    Future Vision. Get rid of it, use it less, or make it more vague, or something. For the vast majority of puzzles, it felt like "Use Future Vision and...do what it tells me to do". The puzzles this episode were pretty weak overall, and I never felt too challenged by anything. I turned off hints before even starting the game, but there's no "Turn Off Future Vision" button.

    I agree. There is no way to know if the Future Vision is going to give you a nessecary clue to solve a puzzle or if it is just going to act like a hint system.

    I'm not a big fan of Max's superpowers in general. I feel as if the powers make the game feel too much like an abstract puzzle game. More than any other adventure game it just feels like I'm trying to work out the designers plan. How could have I known that I need to turn Max into a bazooka? I couldn't the solution presented itself because the designer put it there.
  • edited April 2010
    Now it's time to put my two cents in on the game.

    The game was fantastic to me, I love being in Max's mind and seeing all his bizarre visions of what he sees in the world. Also the first person interface that allows you to specialy look around all sorts of parts of the neighborhood, as well as in buildings. One thing I always wanted to do was get a nice bird's eye view of Stinky's diner. Also the storyline is so much better than every S&M game put together; and more crime solving and adding places on the map. This game reminds me so much of HtR and I love it.

    Keep it up Telltale. You just kept my interest in your games for another seven years. :)
  • edited April 2010
    Future Vision. Get rid of it, use it less, or make it more vague, or something. For the vast majority of puzzles, it felt like "Use Future Vision and...do what it tells me to do". The puzzles this episode were pretty weak overall, and I never felt too challenged by anything. I turned off hints before even starting the game, but there's no "Turn Off Future Vision" button.

    Don't use Future Vision then. Although to be honest there's a few puzzles you can't solve without it. It gave away the solution a couple of times, but was mostly used well.

    ANYWAYS:

    So I finished the episode like ten minutes ago. Spoilers spoilers: I loved it.

    Here's a bigger rundown. I haven't digested it yet - still in a whirl, but hey:
    I loved the new puzzles. I don’t get why people say they were easy, because they were not. A lot of them were creative: my favorite is when you have to fight the gorillas in Momma Bosco’s lab. The solution was simple yet brilliant.

    They reminded me of Braid, actually. Which is good: I really want the game to challenge us to think of new ways to solve puzzles. The crowning moments in any adventure game, I’ve realized, are when it thinks outside the box. So while I was a little disappointed the game fell into a mostly-formulaic structure at one point, I was happy to see it occasionally broke out of there (like the aforementioned Momma Bosco puzzle). It forces you to think in new ways.

    Notice I said “mostly formulaic”. The nice thing was that I never detected hints of a 3-trial or 5-trial puzzle structure. There was never any need to add puzzles that were not part of the story, and at one point (using Future Vision near the Toy Store) the puzzle was the story itself (well, it happened at several points, but that was the most explicit one). This is great, and the new psychic toys just added a whole new level of freshness to it.

    The first ten minutes are non-stop hilarious, by the way, and constantly inventive. That’s what I want to see more of. That’s what all the great ones do. I think seeing the viewpoint of Bazooka Max (Bazooka Max is awesome) and then Skunkape’s shocked and “Nooo” expression was the point I decided this was the best thing ever.

    My favorite lines were usually hidden gags, or just random ones. I’ve never been a fan of Sam and Max treating inanimate objects as living organisms (“Look to the skies, Max!” “I’ll shoot them if they try anything funny”), but the gag about the TV antenna on top of Bosco Tech made me giggle, which I guess goes to show that any kind of joke, done well, is a good joke. (For the curious, it was: “Hi! I think we met at the reception.”) Anyways, my favorite gags were all related to either mind-reading (oh my, do it on Skunkape as he holds onto the rails), random quips (give Max the engagement ring) or just general backwards humor (when you say something the other way round, like Sam walking out of Meesta Pizza and saying: “You just can’t get that taste with real cheese”, like it’s a good thing). All in all, it was really funny, with some genuine laugh-out-loud moments. Gordon the Brain is just gold. His suggestive form adds a lot. So does the zoom in when he says "THE PEEENAL ZONE."

    Being an actual detective for once, finding clues and tracking someone down, was very rewarding. It was loads of fun to try and work things, even when the puzzle solution ended up a little shaky (the pigeon that swallows the phone, for example).

    It of course looked beautiful, even on graphical settings 1. I’m buying a new PC now, to play episodes 2-5 on full graphics. I want to savor that lighting. (Plus I really need a new PC.) Sam and Max's updated graphical models helped so much to make them close to the comics, especially Max's grin.

    There are a lot of little things I appreciate. The rats, pigeons and cockroaches added a fair share of amusement, plus made the city feel more alive. It felt deeper. There were many many little touches that just made it so much better. Max's view of the world; the way random things looked blurred and then came into view when you activated your Psychic Powers (lovely touch).

    Traveling through Max's brain was the best bit, I think. Hilarious, with a bit of fore-shadowing. Oh, and the intro, which is ace, has some fore-shadowing, including stuff from upcoming episodes. That was cool, and good fuel for speculation.

    Though on the other hand…

    The final battle was a little anti-climactic. Not because of anything in particular: there was just a bit of pixel hunting involved that delayed the puzzle by twenty or so minutes. It affected the pacing a little. And I’m not sure why the Mole Men sweat so much: was that mole juice Skunkape slips on? Either way, it was a little “hmm”, but still satisfying.

    I’m also not sure how I feel about Flint Paper. While a great character, he does feel a little…err, I think it’s his voice. It sounds forced. I’m not saying Paper should be a parody of Philip Marlowe or sound like Ben Throttle, but he is a little bit of a weakling.

    I also think Grandpa and Stinky, while fun and interesting (Stinky is hilarious on the ship, with her cellphone), probably contributed to the aforementioned “formulaic” feel, in that they serve one purpose in the game. Grandpa has what you need: that’s it. It feels like the character doesn’t exist outside of Sam and Max’s immediate use for him.

    And finally, Future Vision, while used excellently in some places, did give away a couple of puzzles.

    All in all, it’s an excellent game and one of Telltale’s finest. If the quality’s consistent or gets better, it could be their best. I’m very happy I bought the game and very happy it was so good.

    Here’s to quality!
  • edited April 2010
    Just finished it - it was really good!

    I absolutely loved the story, the writing, most of the puzzles, and especially the music.

    Took me a little while to get used to the grittiness of it, but I actually like it now - a pretty cool effect, and it goes really well with the comments about the New York mayor dirtying up the city.

    Not really a huge FutureVision fan for this reason:
    Future Vision. Get rid of it, use it less, or make it more vague, or something. For the vast majority of puzzles, it felt like "Use Future Vision and...do what it tells me to do". The puzzles this episode were pretty weak overall, and I never felt too challenged by anything. I turned off hints before even starting the game, but there's no "Turn Off Future Vision" button.

    But I'm looking forward to playing with the other psychic powers later in the season!

    Also didn't like the Narrator much - I get that he was necessary for the tutorial part, but I didn't like him appearing after that.

    But apart from those two things, thoroughly enjoyed the game - it was really funny, and really something different. So thanks :) looking forward to episode 2!
  • edited April 2010
    You didn't like the Narrator? Come on, he's so good! He has some great lines, and it feels like he's actually part of the story. I almost think the brain is his.
  • edited April 2010
    I got the episode last night and so far I like it. It seems like an excellent way to spend my weekend.
  • edited April 2010
    Oh! Is it just me, or does the sky's color actually change?
  • edited April 2010
    I think that the psychic powers really add some much needed variety.

    Don't get me wrong, I got Season 1 on DVD and love it, (I have a Mac now, thanks Telltale) but I like it when there's something more then "Use this item with this part of the environment". And the powers are very creative, as people have said.

    I like that Telltale is moving more towards serial plots, like with the previous seasons. The supernatural angle is also something new and much appreciated.

    I know this is very off topic, but Momma Bosco has got it going on.

    Anyway, a solid start to the season.
  • edited April 2010
    GORDON's ALIVE!!!

    Sorry, best line in the whole episode :)
  • edited April 2010
    Kroms wrote: »
    You didn't like the Narrator? Come on, he's so good! He has some great lines, and it feels like he's actually part of the story. I almost think the brain is his.
    He doesn't quite look like a platypus :(.
  • edited April 2010
    I've played around with the game for about 2.5 hours, so I could be around halfway through (I just got the
    homing beacon from Grandpa Stinky
    ). I have two minor gripes, the two most popular ones:
    - the film graining effect
    - future vision makes the game too easy

    neither one is a big deal - assuming that future vision is used deliberately this way in the first episode, to help players get more comfy with the psychic powers. in general, I like the psychic power puzzles a lot - they're quite refreshing.

    the graphics are really nice, the VA is excellent, and the music is just about the best in any telltale game - what a way to launch the season! if the season will evolve similarly to ToMI, then we're in for some truly amazing later episodes :)
  • edited April 2010
    Best thing is the Moleman song

    "The Musical Numbers have really gone down hill since we've been gone"

    I cant wait till the Next episode, the Narrator is too calm for Sam and Max. I like the Batman like narrator a lot more than the Twilight Zone one. "AND NOW FOR THE TITILLATING CONCLUSION!"

    I hope the Narrator dies a horrible death. On a scale from the Soda Poppers to Little Timmy(bad to extremely good) The narrator so far is leaning towards Poppers status.
  • edited April 2010
    I hope the Narrator dies a horrible death. On a scale from the Soda Poppers to Little Timmy(bad to extremely good) The narrator so far is leaning towards Poppers status.

    Narrator still doesn't have an overly irritating voice, and he just pops up in the beginning, and near the end of the episode.
  • edited April 2010
    I just finished the game and I really liked it. It could use less memory though - after playing a while the came became slower and slower and after quitting the game it took about 20-30 Seconds to unload the memory. My PC is not the fastest (2800+, Geforce 6800GT, 2GB RAM) but it did well wit Season 1 and 2. The loading times sometimes are too long in my opinion.

    But despite the technical "flaws" I really had fun. But I have two questions which weren't answered in this episode and I don't know if I've missed them.

    In future vision there were two scenes which I haven't been played in the game itself (maybe they will occur in one of the next episodes):

    - Max digging (?) into Pudding Lincoln
    - Sam saying that he won't rest until he finds the one killing his Partner (!)
  • edited April 2010
    MarkoH01 wrote: »
    - Sam saying that he won't rest until he finds the one killing his Partner (!)
    That's just ominous foreshadowing, little buddy. And proof that we'll be on Skunkape's ship. And it's likely something completely different from what you immediately expect, that's the oldest trick in the book.
  • puzzleboxpuzzlebox Telltale Alumni
    edited April 2010
    MarkoH01 wrote: »
    - Max digging (?) into Pudding Lincoln

    I'm not sure, but that might have something to do with this.
  • edited April 2010
    Kroms wrote: »
    I also think Grandpa and Stinky, while fun and interesting (Stinky is hilarious on the ship, with her cellphone), probably contributed to the aforementioned “formulaic” feel, in that they serve one purpose in the game. Grandpa has what you need: that’s it. It feels like the character doesn’t exist outside of Sam and Max’s immediate use for him.

    In fact, Stinky and Grandpa even lampshades that! Stinky lampshades the fact Sam and Max
    just come for ask things for somesort of puzzle and asks please just tell her what they need, and Sam told her is part of the rules doing all the questions
    and Grandpa Stinky lampshades the fact of
    every time they meet somebody from previous season, they go to explain their motivations and weird stuff we have to remember in one phrase =P
    .

    But when Sal appears probably they will stop of been that.
  • MRNMRN
    edited April 2010
    puzzlebox wrote: »
    I'm not sure, but that might have something to do with this.

    Exactly
  • puzzleboxpuzzlebox Telltale Alumni
    edited April 2010
    GinnyN wrote: »
    In fact, Stinky and Grandpa even lampshades that!

    Ginny, I love the way you speak (write? :p)... but since you asked for corrections in another thread: I think that instead of "lampshades" you might be looking for "lampoons" (makes fun of) or "highlights" (draws attention to)? :)
  • edited April 2010
    puzzlebox wrote: »
    Ginny, I love the way you speak (write? :p)... but since you asked for corrections in another thread: I think that instead of "lampshades" you might be looking for "lampoons" (makes fun of) or "highlights" (draws attention to)? :)
    Nope. It's a TVtropes term. When you "lampshade" something, you're kind of putting a flimsy excuse over it, recognizing that it shouldn't be there but weakly attempting to allow it anyway, for humorous effect.

    Here.
  • edited April 2010
    puzzlebox wrote: »
    Ginny, I love the way you speak (write? :p)... but since you asked for corrections in another thread: I think that instead of "lampshades" you might be looking for "lampoons" (makes fun of) or "highlights" (draws attention to)? :)
    At the risk of sucking you into a black hole for a few hours, I shall direct your attention to TV Tropes.

    EDIT: Bah, Rather Dashing beat me to it.
  • puzzleboxpuzzlebox Telltale Alumni
    edited April 2010
    Nope. It's a TVtropes term. When you "lampshade" something, you're kind of putting a flimsy excuse over it, recognizing that it shouldn't be there but weakly attempting to allow it anyway, for humorous effect.

    Here.
    ATMachine wrote: »
    At the risk of sucking you into a black hole for a few hours, I shall direct your attention to TV Tropes.

    Haha, very nice. My TVtropes education continues, thanks guys!
  • edited April 2010
    puzzlebox wrote: »
    Ginny, I love the way you speak (write? :p)...

    Wait, you like my bad grammar? Oh dear...
  • edited April 2010
    Yesterday I download The penal zone , I,can't wait to play it
  • edited April 2010
    One last question: any idea what the flaming Max head in the last scene (Scunkape sucked into the penal zone - again) could mean?
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