Puzzle Agent Graphical Bug on Puzzle 2 with Snowmobile

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Comments

  • edited November 2010
    Telltale. Please stop screwing around and fix this.
  • edited November 2010
    Telltale. Please stop screwing around and fix this.
  • olzolz
    edited November 2010
    looks like we can see this fix only in our dreams :(
  • edited November 2010
    I've been waiting on a fix for this for months now. I've purchased in one way or another almost everything that Telltale has put out.

    I just wanted to let you know that I won't be buying anything else until this issue is resolved. I'm not going to take the risk that the next thing I buy won't work either.
  • edited November 2010
    I agree with koriar. After I played Sam&Max I pre-ordered all other TTG games including this one, and while I love them, I'm terribly disappointed with the treatment we are getting. I haven't pre-ordered the Back to the Future game, and I'm considering not buying it either until we get a fix here, or a definite answer that there will be no fixes (but that would be sad).
  • edited November 2010
    I can understand the frustration many people have expressed in this thread. But we are working to fix this. I'd love to be able to give everyone a set date a fix will be released but considering what goes into correcting something like this it's just not possible. We put thousands of hours into play testing our games before they are released and attempt to ensure our games are compatible with as many different systems as possible but with the vast amount of different hardware setups on the market there are bound to be unforeseeable issues that arise after release.

    And I know everyone is going to hate hearing this but this issue only affects a small portion of the people who bought the game.

    I'm really sorry about the lack of communication on this issue and I promise to be more responsive in the future. Please know that we're not purposely ignoring you, we're still a small company and with all the projects going on it really is hard for the guys who actually make the games to find time to login into the forums.
  • edited November 2010
    Amy Lukima wrote: »
    I can understand the frustration many people have expressed in this thread. But we are working to fix this.

    I'm sure you realize that this is kind of hard to believe when 2 months ago, Will said he believed the fix was ready. Not just underway, but *ready*. If you're still working on it, then he clearly must have been *very* wrong.
    I'd love to be able to give everyone a set date a fix will be released but considering what goes into correcting something like this it's just not possible. We put thousands of hours into play testing our games before they are released and attempt to ensure our games are compatible with as many different systems as possible but with the vast amount of different hardware setups on the market there are bound to be unforeseeable issues that arise after release.

    Of course something like this can happen, even to the biggest of companies and even on consoles where there's only *one* configuration to test. The problem is not that this happens, it's that it's taken more than 4 months to fix it, even though you know what the problem is, and you know how to fix it.

    Worse still, we have nothing that is even *close* to a timeframe. For all we know, there might not be a fix before sometime in 2011 (at which point this bug will have been live for *6 months*).

    I get that you can't give us an exact date, and I get that you can't have the developers in here every day to give a status update or something - but surely that doesn't mean we can't get *any* information, does it?
  • edited November 2010
    Pidgeot wrote: »
    I'm sure you realize that this is kind of hard to believe when 2 months ago, Will said he believed the fix was ready. Not just underway, but *ready*. If you're still working on it, then he clearly must have been *very* wrong.



    Of course something like this can happen, even to the biggest of companies and even on consoles where there's only *one* configuration to test. The problem is not that this happens, it's that it's taken more than 4 months to fix it, even though you know what the problem is, and you know how to fix it.

    Worse still, we have nothing that is even *close* to a timeframe. For all we know, there might not be a fix before sometime in 2011 (at which point this bug will have been live for *6 months*).

    I get that you can't give us an exact date, and I get that you can't have the developers in here every day to give a status update or something - but surely that doesn't mean we can't get *any* information, does it?

    We did believe we were close to a fix, but think about everything we have to take into account- operating system updates, driver updates, and there have been times we thought it was fixed only to get to the end of testing to find out something else was broke.
  • edited November 2010
    Amy, as this has been a known issue for a good number of months, I'm concerned that there's no notice at the time of purchase about the bug (I really think that would be a respectful/smart move at this point - you guys don't need more unhappy customers).

    It also would have saved me 200MB worth of bandwidth to see some kind of warning before downloading it this evening >_<

    I have to say, I'm kinda stunned that there aren't more people being sad about this. My girlfriend and I both have GTX460s. They're pretty popular cards around here.

    Should this thread be stickied?
  • edited November 2010
    Amy Lukima wrote: »
    And I know everyone is going to hate hearing this but this issue only affects a small portion of the people who bought the game.
    I've been quietly awaiting a fix but now I realize it's important that I post in order to be added the number of users affected by this bug. It's the same problem: I can't access the menu with ESC and puzzle 2 displays the map in the foreground.

    Honestly, how would Telltale even know what percentage of customers are affected??


    Intel i7-960 on X58
    dual GeForce GTX 470 in SLI with 263.09 drivers
    Windows 7 x64

    Let me know if I can provide more information if it helps in any way.
  • edited November 2010
    Linux users running TTG games through WINE are also affected.
  • edited November 2010
    Linux users running TTG games through WINE are also affected.

    Do we know whether that's a Wine issue or a specific video card issue (I run all of Telltale's games under Wine, but I've got a GTX460, so I'd be effected if I was running Windows anyway)?

    If that turns out to be a separate, Wine specific issue, I wouldn't expect (hope, but not expect) it to get any attention.
    Amy Lukima wrote:
    this issue only affects a small portion of the people who bought the game

    Amy, could you expand on how you came to that conclusion? Is that an assumption, or a known fact?

    Like BloodShed, I was considering not posting at all, confident in Telltale's history and integrity, and figured lodging a support email wouldn't accomplish anything since it's a known issue. I don't think the people posting in this thread can even be remotely considered any kind of indication of who/how many people might be having problems.
  • edited November 2010
    Just stopping by to let you know that I have the same issue and have been following this thread for a while. Running xp on my macbook pro. Patiently awaiting a fix and resisting paying for the game again just to get the mac version.
  • edited November 2010
    Cheeseness wrote: »
    Do we know whether that's a Wine issue or a specific video card issue (I run all of Telltale's games under Wine, but I've got a GTX460, so I'd be effected if I was running Windows anyway)?

    If that turns out to be a separate, Wine specific issue, I wouldn't expect (hope, but not expect) it to get any attention.



    Amy, could you expand on how you came to that conclusion? Is that an assumption, or a known fact?

    Like BloodShed, I was considering not posting at all, confident in Telltale's history and integrity, and figured lodging a support email wouldn't accomplish anything since it's a known issue. I don't think the people posting in this thread can even be remotely considered any kind of indication of who/how many people might be having problems.


    We don't count how many people are affected with an issue by how many have posted in a forum thread. I don't know how much of our QA process might be private information so I can't really get into it.

    Since Valve has made their user surveys public I can link to this though.

    http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/

    Less than 1.5% of Steam users use the affected video card.
  • edited November 2010
    Amy Lukima wrote: »
    Less than 1.5% of Steam users use the affected video card.

    Uh, no. It is true that the survey shows only 1.26% use a GTX 465, but there have been reports of this issue for all of the 4XX cards. That puts the total percentage at 18.02% instead, which I can't say I would qualify as a "small" number of people.
  • edited November 2010
    Amy Lukima wrote:
    I don't know how much of our QA process might be private information so I can't really get into it.

    It's cool :)
    Amy Lukima wrote:
    Less than 1.5%

    Out of the "all video cards" table, I count the GTX 4XX range as having somewhere close to 2% (plus perhaps an unknown portion of the 24% "other" record), which given that they've been available for at most two months of the data set seems pretty significant to me.
    Pidgeot wrote: »
    18.02%
    Pidgeot, I think you're counting the figures in the DX11 compatible table - given that Puzzle Agent doesn't require DX11 support(?), the figures from the "all video cards" table are probably more appropriate.

    It's also interesting to note that the GTX 460 alone has the highest growth rate (in both tables), with the other 4XX models still having significant growth.
  • edited November 2010
    Amy Lukima wrote: »
    Since Valve has made their user surveys public I can link to this though.

    http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/

    Less than 1.5% of Steam users use the affected video card.
    Somehow I already knew that was the answer.

    Not to sound aggressive but, frankly, this provides little correlation to assess the actual number of affected users. First of all, you need to eliminate the general Steam audience to strictly the Puzzle Agent owners since they represent a specific demographic. Additionally, I have always opted-out of the hardware surveys. Further, I have purchased nearly all of my Telltale games directly from Telltale and none from Steam (the only exception being the first Sam & Max which I purchased at a Best Buy). I'm affected and I'm not even included in your statistics; who knows how many others.

    Honestly, what bothers me the most is that your comment presents itself as saying that we do not deserve a working product or Telltale's full attention because we are an insignificant minority. It doesn't help that your comment was posted after four months of excuses.

    To clarify, I am a developer myself and certainly I understand that, regardless of the precautions taken, bugs slip through. I would also like to think I'm a patient man. Admittedly, I have not been waiting for the four+ months for a fix. At this point I empathize with the customers that have been waiting this whole time.

    HOWEVER, what I can not understand is why this has not been fixed yet. Pull the right developers in on this! A week of time from a senior developer to fix a broken product is far more cost efficient than four months of one or more entry level developers spinning their wheels, hurting Telltale's reputation, and further upsetting paying customers (no matter how insignificant we are). Perhaps I use different math.
  • edited November 2010
    I guess we are even more insignificant compared to the potential userbase of the new big Universal licences and that it's safer to allocate all the available resources for those :)
    Do we know whether that's a Wine issue or a specific video card issue (I run all of Telltale's games under Wine, but I've got a GTX460, so I'd be effected if I was running Windows anyway)?

    I have a GF 9800M GTX here and it does trigger the very same issue in WINE.

    Anyway, I'll stick to indie/Linux-friendly developers in the future. I'm fed up having some issues launching games because of copy protections or lack of support (even though some do work perfectly out of the box, like S&M 3). --> I do not blame TTG though, it's just how the market works.
  • edited November 2010
    Cheeseness wrote: »
    Pidgeot, I think you're counting the figures in the DX11 compatible table - given that Puzzle Agent doesn't require DX11 support(?), the figures from the "all video cards" table are probably more appropriate.

    Ah, my bad. I had somehow read that percentage as being for all cards, not just the DX11 cards (didn't notice the top two ATI cards had 60% together...)

    When adjusting for the percentage of DX11 GPUs, that makes it 2.34%. (12.99% have a DX11 GPU, and of those, 18.02% have a GTX 4XX) I can agree that this is a fairly small number, then.
  • edited November 2010
    First of all I'd like to say that I'm suffering this bug, too.

    And I don't think a 2,34% of users is a small number when we are talking a about a bug that makes users unable to play the game.

    If 2 of every 100 users can't play your game once they have already bought it, I think you have a serious problem. And you're going to see how it grows because the 4xx series is becoming cheaper and more popular.

    I'm not going to say if you have to put more peolple to work on it or what you have to do, but I have to say what I feel and I feel disappointed and frustrated not because the bug exists but because the users don't seem to matter.
  • edited November 2010
    And I don't think a 2,34% of users is a small number when we are talking a about a bug that makes users unable to play the game.

    Just to be clear, I didn't mean to imply that it was small enough that it in any way justified this; only that it is quite a bit smaller than the 18.02% I originally arrived at (but still bigger than the 1.5% Amy claimed). I fully agree that it's far too large for a bug of this nature.
  • edited November 2010
    Pidgeot wrote: »
    When adjusting for the percentage...
    Seriously, it's ludicrous that we even need to justify and plead for the attention this problem deserves.
    I feel disappointed and frustrated not because the bug exists but because the users don't seem to matter.
    Exactly.

    I mean Will claimed that Telltale had found the cause back on July 9th and that they had a fix as "early" as September 7th. After that, it's been two and a half months of excuses until they finally conclude that we're just "a small portion".
  • edited November 2010
    What bugs (pun intended) me about this is that it's impossible to get a refund for a game I haven't been able to play at all, since I bought this on steam...
  • edited November 2010
    Just bought this game with the Indie Story Pack on Steam and encountered this GTX460 bug on the second puzzle. Now I come here to find out it's been known for months and there's still no fix. How can Telltale even continue selling this game with such a game-breaking bug? Very disappointing.
  • edited November 2010
    Also having this issue, real shame as it seems like a great game :(
  • edited November 2010
    by using the walkthrough found here:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-UV2nyndso&feature=related

    I was able to figure out which logs to put where. Just make sure you choose the correct logs and place them on the appropriate spaces. You can tell when your cursor is over a log because it will change color. They automatically snap into place when you put them over a grid. Hard to do when you cant see where you're placing them... but by following the walkthrough I managed to get past that damned second puzzle.
  • edited November 2010
    ovinophile wrote: »
    Just bought this game with the Indie Story Pack on Steam

    was very annoyed

    did what didactandnarpet said and im past it now woohoo
  • edited November 2010
    I just ran into this bug, and became more and more incredulous the more I read this thread. I have _never_ made a post saying I wouldn't buy a product from a company again, and I always laugh to myself when other people do, but this is a case where I'm making an exception in the hopes that if I add my voice to the others here it will get someone's attention.

    I preordered the first season of Sam and Max, and I have almost every product Telltale has released, but I won't be buying any more. I completely understand and am sympathetic to bugs, especially in PC games because of all of the different configurations out there. I am even more understanding to small developers, and realize that it's impossible to make everything work with limited manpower. There are two things about this specific case, though, that I find completely unacceptable:

    1. This is a known issue that makes the entire game unplayable, but the game is still being sold with no warning. I just bought this on Steam today, and the requirements don't indicate that it won't work with NVIDIA 4xx cards. This strikes me as unapologetically dishonest.

    2. The way the situation has been handled in this forum thread demonstrates a bewildering lack of respect for your customers. I realize that things are always more complicated than they seem to outside observers, but surely you must realize the negative impact this situation will have? I've never even been to the Telltale forums before, but I've always had affection for what your company and always buy your products to support a company I see as one of the "good guys", even though I haven't gotten around to playing many of them. I'm afraid that I am probably sounding melodramatic, but I just want to emphasize how drastically my opinion of your company has been altered. The situation is even more odd since I got the game as part of the Indie Story Pack for $5, so the frustration in my case doesn't even have anything to do with feeling ripped off financially, and has everything to do with the principle of the thing and my perception of Telltale. (Reading some of the other comments makes it sound like my experience isn't unique, either...)

    Very sad and disappointed.
  • edited November 2010
    by using the walkthrough found here:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-UV2nyndso&feature=related

    I was able to figure out which logs to put where. Just make sure you choose the correct logs and place them on the appropriate spaces. You can tell when your cursor is over a log because it will change color. They automatically snap into place when you put them over a grid. Hard to do when you cant see where you're placing them... but by following the walkthrough I managed to get past that damned second puzzle.

    Even if you can get past the logs, there are still several pieces in each of the puzzles missing. There's a puzzle involving security guards that is almost as impossible because you can't really make out the answer you're giving.

    For what it's worth, Poker Night doesn't seem to have this problem, unless Nelson Tethers is supposed to be in the background and I can't see him. :\
  • edited November 2010
    Depops wrote: »
    I have both of these problems. ESC doesn't work and there's no automatic save after the first puzzle.

    In addition, there is a problem with the second puzzle. The background of the puzzle is on top of the rest of the objects so I can't see what's happening.

    - posted 7/01/2010

    Hi all just wanted to say hey and welcome you to yet another example of a pissed off customer to this game. This isn't an issue that was discovered last week or last month, but will be going on for 6 months now. I'd like to show my appreciation for the timely and wonderfully craptastic response to this issue by creating a forum account on a site I will never go to again, creating an email address to do that on a address I will never use, and as a result of this, you will never see me buy another product from this company again. If the junk don't work, fine - don't make me pay for it.

    Steam did their indie pack this weekend and this BROKEN game still is able to be purchased by customers. Not like the 400 series video cards have just come out last week or anything. So from all of us on Steam that bought this pack to enjoy this game just wanted to give a "you are number one" finger response to you and your epic programming skills. Block me, email whatever you won't ever see me again.

    Long live the gamers - the rest of ya'll blow up the steam forums like I will to stop this company from making a dime off some junk that don't work.

    PEACE!
  • edited November 2010
  • I'm also pissed off and waiting, but where did you get the figure '6 months' from? The game only came out right at the end of June. That's 5 months at the most and people have been saying 6 months for a while.
  • edited November 2010
    Oh good lord. Suffering from the same problem here too, and this whole situation has really annoyed me. I was really looking forward to playing this game, but the fact that I can't simply because Telltalle seem to have decided it's not important has really put me off.

    I mean, how do you screw up such a simple 2D game? Really. A Japanese indie game released back in 2007 (Recettear) has no problems working on my PC, and yet the modern day indie game won't. It's ridiculous.
  • Oh good lord. Suffering from the same problem here too, and this whole situation has really annoyed me. I was really looking forward to playing this game, but the fact that I can't simply because Telltalle seem to have decided it's not important has really put me off.

    I mean, how do you screw up such a simple 2D game? Really. A Japanese indie game released back in 2007 (Recettear) has no problems working on my PC, and yet the modern day indie game won't. It's ridiculous.


    Puzzle Agent isn't actually 2D, although the log puzzle that doesn't work for so many is 2D.
  • edited November 2010
    Puzzle Agent isn't actually 2D, although the log puzzle that doesn't work for so many is 2D.

    Still, it's not exactly next-gen is it? :p
  • Still, it's not exactly next-gen is it? :p


    True... and it definitely shouldn't take this long to fix it. They must have only one person working on it a couple of hours a week.
  • edited November 2010
    More incoming angry customers by the day. I sure hope Telltale changes their mind about their priorities. Frankly, this is a personal embarrassment for me as well. I often tell friends how great Telltale's games are, but then they do this.
    They must have only one person working on it a couple of hours a week.
    It's pretty typical in the industry to dedicate inexperienced programmers for bug fixes. From what we've been told, this isn't a simple fix and I would assume they've got someone drowning in this issue. I am, of course, giving them the benefit of doubt that they've actually been working on it. It's obvious now that this problem isn't getting proper attention. So, that is why I am also guessing that they refuse to assign experienced developers to assist.

    Whatever the reality of the situation is, it shouldn't take nearly five months to correct this.
  • edited November 2010
    Is anyone from Telltale even reading this?
  • edited November 2010
    This is disgusting, I paid for the game when it came out and I still can't play it! You should be ashamed, telltale. It should be fixed by now.
  • edited November 2010
    Just registered to add my voice to this. I got this game as part of the indie bundle on Steam and was surprised to find I can't even play it. However, that surprise was nothing compared to discovering the game has been broken for 6 months and Telltale are still happy to sell it without any warning that it may not work.

    I've purchased plenty of Telltale games in the past across multiple platforms but there's no way I'll be spending another penny on them while this situation continues. It's a shame, I really thought Telltale were one of the few developers I could trust but the lack of any real movement on this shows you're just like the rest; only interested in new sales with no interest in supporting those who have already paid their money.
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