The ending is especially touching since we've come to know more about Max. I used to think Max as an irascible scamp who is totally incapable of sadness, and totally oblivious to other peoples' feelings. Now we know he is crying inside as he composes his "Inuit coming-of-age novel". Not to mention he chooses to save Sybil, and in the end sacrifices himself. These deeds pushes Max's characterization to another level, and makes his passing more emotional.
I was sad when they couldn't clone him. I watched the credits, and was still sad. He reached the end, looked at the Statue of Liberty, took his hat off...
Then, out of nowhere, a time elevator appears! He looks into it and I think he has an idea to go back and make sure this never happened. Then Max appears beside him. That makes me really happy.
The ending is especially touching since we've come to know more about Max. I used to think Max as an irascible scamp who is totally incapable of sadness, and totally oblivious to other peoples' feelings. Now we know he is crying inside as he composes his "Inuit coming-of-age novel". Not to mention he chooses to save Sybil, and in the end sacrifices himself. These deeds pushes Max's characterization to another level, and makes his passing more emotional.
Same here. It's nice to know that Max has the capacity to genuinely care.
A really beautiful ending, I for one didn't think the time-machine concept was that tacky.
And although Max's demise was sad, I think the prospect of 2/3 more years without any new episodes is making me sadder...this series has been so great!!
I haven't felt like this since Frosty the Snowman died. I didn't actually cry this time, but I'm not four anymore, so...
FROSTY THE SNOWMAN DIED!?
Damn, I'll need some time to recover from that one.
As much as I loved The Devil's Playhouse (besides the fact that there was no final boss), I think Telltale made a mistake killing off the original Max. Think about it, this is the Max that's been adventuring with Sam for so many years. The original Max. Try to look at things from his point of view. He turned into a giant monster and was nuked in outer space.
FROSTY THE SNOWMAN DIED!?
Damn, I'll need some time to recover from that one.
As much as I loved The Devil's Playhouse (besides the fact that there was no final boss), I think Telltale made a mistake killing off the original Max. Think about it, this is the Max that's been adventuring with Sam for so many years. The original Max. Try to look at things from his point of view. He turned into a giant monster and was nuked in outer space.
That's just depressing.
So many years? It was a year and a half to two years out of all the previous selection(which began before 1980, so we're talking about 5-15%, at the most of all their adventures that were not shared).
Think about it, this is the Max that's been adventuring with Sam for so many years. The original Max. Try to look at things from his point of view. He turned into a giant monster and was nuked in outer space.
That's just depressing.
Yeah, but NO. I mean, allusions to Max's Death were numerous! I actually LAUGHED when I saw he had a tumor (... that sounds horrible. Please just think of the context. I do have a heart) because everybody predicted it (Momma Bosco and Henry Moleman if I remember well) and it was finely done!
Death is quite temporary on this game. And the Max that comes out the elevator IS the real Max. The Max Sam spent his childhood and almost all his life with. Come on, Max is not dead. One of the Maxes is dead. I clearly preferred that, that seeing him miraculously heal...
And why, exactly, couldn't Max be cloned? It HAS been done before.
I think Max's DNA was too messed up from being turned into a giant monstrosity to be recoverable anymore. Sadly there's no getting around this, since the DNA needs to be less than a week old and the rampage was already getting into its second week at the start of the episode.
i wasn't very sad since i was sure they'd come up with some convoluted reason why Max survived, and the cloning just didn't work because we'd be getting the original Max back. and then we didn't. although it was him. but not. and i'm happy. and sad. really confused.
I did utter a "WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT" after credits started to roll from bottom while Sam was walking.
Me too. I was so, so confused. I was thinking, "What the hell? How can they possibly end it like THAT? This has got to be a joke, there has to be more..."
And then I realized it wasn't and started to cry. Thank god for the after-credits scene, though. The ending shot was stunning, if you choose the crimefighting ending.
I think what upsets me about the ending (and the whole episode, in a way) is that it felt like Max has already died when he transformed in 304.
It did not feel like there was much of him left in 305.
The fact that he died as Maxthulhu and not as himself basically meant that we/Sam didn't get a chance to say goodbye...
To be honest I just feel cheated. Like the whole season rose to magnificent heights in 304, then dissolved itself neatly with only one issue left (how to transform Max back). And then the writers suddenly realised that they don't have enough material to fill the plot, so they started creating most convoluted mix-up I've ever seen [and, having played the last episode of Tales, this is something to tell]. Stinky's exposition made it just worse and I don't know whom to trust now. It just feels so forced... Ditto for Max's sudden change of heart and whole issue of "Saving Sybil." C'mon, I prefer to earn my plot progression.
And the ending... worst for me. You know, I believe that you just can't steal the chips from the scales of drama once it's been laid and weighed. I mean, Max COULD be brought back, but with a proper explanation. This just feels... forced.
I'd be less bummed if he was a clone, honestly.
Overall, I feel that the season could have been satisfyingly tied-up in 304, and 305 was just unmercifully prolonging its departure.
And the ending... worst for me. You know, I believe that you just can't steal the chips from the scales of drama once it's been laid and weighed. I mean, Max COULD be brought back, but with a proper explanation. This just feels... forced.
Of course it's up to you if you like the ending or not, but let me point out two rather factual things:
1. The whole season, but especially the last episode had it's grim moments, and the tone of the game was much more serious than the games in the previous season, so the stage was well set for a dramatic ending.
2. Max's reappearance had a perfectly proper explanation - what happened makes perfect sense in the Sam&Max universe.
By the way, are you sure Max Prime is dead? There was no dead body. If he survived the brain trepanation in 303, why can't he survive this explosion? Besides, the dark magic of Elder Gods is a mystery, and no one can predict the outcome.
For a while, even though I know Sam must be happy with having his friend back, I was pissed because it felt tacked on and fake - and even if Max X is exactly the same as the original Max, the original Max still DIED and would be off in the afterlife somewhere.
If there's a Sam X who died too, though, then I console myself by choosing to believe that he and Max met up and are having fun together in the afterlife. Besides, they're hell's biggest contributors - even if that's where they end up heading, I doubt Satan's gonna put them through much eternal torment, considering all they've done for business.
If they are in hell, couldn't Sam P.(prime) and Max A. go find Sam A. and Max P. and do some sort of reuniting switch?
Although despite all the theorys for getting Max P. back, we're probs going to have to settle with Max A. in any future seasons
Of course it's up to you if you like the ending or not, but let me point out two rather factual things:
1. The whole season, but especially the last episode had it's grim moments, and the tone of the game was much more serious than the games in the previous season, so the stage was well set for a dramatic ending.
2. Max's reappearance had a perfectly proper explanation - what happened makes perfect sense in the Sam&Max universe.
That's not what I meant. I tried to say that the episode tried to be pretty dramatic (even if it felt unnatural at times, due to the convoluted plot and many Deus-Ex-Machinas), but all in all, the ending first shows us Max die (presumably), and then pushes in Max from the alternate timeline, and Sam just takes him in, just as if nothing happened. BUt it's not exactly Max he knew! Taking into account the amount of character development both Sam and Max had in that season, the new Max just makes the ending jarring in a VERY unpleasant way.
Yeah, that too. I dunno, maybe I'm not accustomed to their mode of thinking, but if my best pal died and was replaced by his copy from another timeline, I'd feel uneasy, at least.
Story cliffhanger idea for old max to return:
sam and max a have just finished their first case together and it's like sam a and max never died but suddenly they get transported to hell where max is waiting for them, big monologue, and then max a suddenly goes "but where's MY sam?" The electromagnetic properties of his powers stopped him from being able to become a spirit so it is impossible for him to ever be sen again. Now sam has to choose between max and max a.
That's not what I meant. I tried to say that the episode tried to be pretty dramatic (even if it felt unnatural at times, due to the convoluted plot and many Deus-Ex-Machinas), but all in all, the ending first shows us Max die (presumably), and then pushes in Max from the alternate timeline, and Sam just takes him in, just as if nothing happened. BUt it's not exactly Max he knew! Taking into account the amount of character development both Sam and Max had in that season, the new Max just makes the ending jarring in a VERY unpleasant way.
Sam's kind of selfish if you think of it that way. He doesn't care that Max died as long as he still has someone to hang out with.
Question to both of you: did you read the comics? It may be a big deal in our world to be killed off and replaced by a copy of ourselves, but for Sam and Max, it's probably not more inconvenient than losing your wallet. Try to see the story in its own context, it does make sense. Plus, as someone said in another thread, probably Giant Max and Giant Sam are together in the afterlife. Now those could be some adventures I'd like to watch! From a safe distance, though
Sadly, I haven't. Though I have skimmed through some of them and I think I know what you mean. However, the arrival of new Max struck me as inconsistent because of the nature of this season. As I've said before, both Sam and Max have matured, somehow. Sam in 303 is for the first time put in the situation when it might be possible that Max is dead. And that had a huge effect on him, in my opinion. As someone has said, he was basically unhinged. Even if death is everyday occurrence and reversible in their universe, Sam's reaction seemed to point that this time, it meant something more. Like.. the stakes are higher this time, you know?
Similarly, in 305 we see Max perform a truly good and unselfish deed, even it was only for Sam's sake. That teleporting into space dumbfounded me, at the same time I was in awe because of Max's heroism and fearing he would die. Yes, die, because everybody seemed to think that this was really a serious situation. The final gathering in the Cloning Facility was very sombre, almost desperate. Death seemed to really matter here. I know that death basically is no obstacle in Sam and Max's world, but here, it really seemed to matter.
And suddenly, boom, a new Max from alternate timeline is here. Different memories, different experiences, different attitude (heck, he killed alternate Sam and liked it!). With all that development Sam received in this season, the new Max just seems like an obsolete version that was cut from the earlier part and forcefully implanted somewhere else, where it doesn't even fit.
I dunno, maybe I'm reading too much into it, maybe TT want to make it all revert to status quo, but I'd be happy if the changes in Sam and Max I witnessed when travelling with them through this, greatest adventure would stay. Somehow, now I feel like my old buddies devolved suddenly and I'm too old for them.
He goes to a private heaven with that (along with Sal).
Don't think so. I suppose they both will make a comeback in Season 4. Guess they will either be ressurected or appear as ghosts or Hell inhabitants. Or perhaps Sam will visit Heaven this time?
Really? That's not the impression I got at all. It seemed like he was apologetic towards Sam, even if it was another Sam that he blew up. I hardly think "It was horrible!" is interchangeable with "It was great!"
Sam and Max both care about their previous Maxes and Sams. The final scene shows a sudden break in the tension as the two speak to each other as though they were their original partners. Max tells Sam how he blew up his partner in a gleeful way as he always does feel about explosions/killing people. That sudden pause shows that the two still remember their previous partners but realise that the best way for things to work out is if the two work together. Neither has forgotten their previous partner...
i still find it a wierd ending. (which is normal for sam and max)
I mean max is dead. No final showdown. the guy being held at knife point during the credits wasnt a spy attacking a heavy:D
I get it is the same max at the end just from an alternate timeline where sam(maybe sammeth too) had the gift and probably that is it and they have the same memories. but still.:(
Either way im going for the fact that the max that died and instead of the afterlife he went to the inventory to play cards with the heavy(hey he died many times technically) and strong bad(died in 8-bit is enough technicaly) and tycho(got nothing)
I feel a bit sad, but that's because I felt the last episode was a bit of a let-down. Not to say that there wasn't anything good about it - I liked the way the villain is revealed, the mermaid in-joke, and the reappearance right at the end.... but am I the only person mourning the death of Past Sam? i thought he was great! Wandering around with his guitar slung over his back, and saying things like "I can't shoot future me." Anyway, I'm sure somebody on this forum said that Max had been killed and replaced with a clone in the tv serie sor comic strip or something anyway.
Still, lots of set-up for Season 4, though. Might Stinky have escaped? Will Superball be a worse President than Max? Will Sam and Max be allowed to keep the elevator, or does Doc Brown hold a monopoly on time travel nowadays? What has happened to Harry? Has Sybil given birth successfully? Will Sal be replaced with his otherwise-identical twin brother? Will they have to change the name of the series to "Sam: Freelance Police" what with Max disappearing for various reasons every five minutes, perhaps more than was justified in a single season?
As I've said before, both Sam and Max have matured, somehow. Sam in 303 is for the first time put in the situation when it might be possible that Max is dead. And that had a huge effect on him, in my opinion. As someone has said, he was basically unhinged. Even if death is everyday occurrence and reversible in their universe, Sam's reaction seemed to point that this time, it meant something more. Like.. the stakes are higher this time, you know?
Yes, a lot of serious stuff happened in this season, but I'm not sure we've seen any proof that as a result, Sam matured. Max's "Save Sybil" scene was something I didn't like, to be honest, and chose to ignore it. IMO, to quote Terry Pratchett (almost), in Sam's and Max's World, character development is something that happens to other people. Or it doesn't.
About death: yes, it's not too serious in the game's universe. However, very serious is Sam without Max - this is basically against one of the fundamental rules of the universe. No wonder poor Sam's got rabid, and bitch slapped pretty much everyone in 303, from Frankie the rat to that enormous sign spinning gorilla twice his size.
Comments
Oh come on...once that list of professions began rattling off, who here wasn't shouting "SYBIL!", lol.
Then, out of nowhere, a time elevator appears! He looks into it and I think he has an idea to go back and make sure this never happened. Then Max appears beside him. That makes me really happy.
Good ending, even if that isn't the Max Sam knew.
Same here. It's nice to know that Max has the capacity to genuinely care.
And although Max's demise was sad, I think the prospect of 2/3 more years without any new episodes is making me sadder...this series has been so great!!
Damn, I'll need some time to recover from that one.
As much as I loved The Devil's Playhouse (besides the fact that there was no final boss), I think Telltale made a mistake killing off the original Max. Think about it, this is the Max that's been adventuring with Sam for so many years. The original Max. Try to look at things from his point of view. He turned into a giant monster and was nuked in outer space.
That's just depressing.
So many years? It was a year and a half to two years out of all the previous selection(which began before 1980, so we're talking about 5-15%, at the most of all their adventures that were not shared).
Yeah, but NO. I mean, allusions to Max's Death were numerous! I actually LAUGHED when I saw he had a tumor (... that sounds horrible. Please just think of the context. I do have a heart) because everybody predicted it (Momma Bosco and Henry Moleman if I remember well) and it was finely done!
Death is quite temporary on this game. And the Max that comes out the elevator IS the real Max. The Max Sam spent his childhood and almost all his life with. Come on, Max is not dead. One of the Maxes is dead. I clearly preferred that, that seeing him miraculously heal...
Edit : Hubert was faster!
It's more the execution of the Machina than the Machina being there for me.
And I suppose I do would have prefered the "same" Max instead of a time-travelling copy (yeah, I know it's the same, but it doesn't feel that way).
Me too. I was so, so confused. I was thinking, "What the hell? How can they possibly end it like THAT? This has got to be a joke, there has to be more..."
And then I realized it wasn't and started to cry. Thank god for the after-credits scene, though. The ending shot was stunning, if you choose the crimefighting ending.
It did not feel like there was much of him left in 305.
The fact that he died as Maxthulhu and not as himself basically meant that we/Sam didn't get a chance to say goodbye...
And the ending... worst for me. You know, I believe that you just can't steal the chips from the scales of drama once it's been laid and weighed. I mean, Max COULD be brought back, but with a proper explanation. This just feels... forced.
I'd be less bummed if he was a clone, honestly.
Overall, I feel that the season could have been satisfyingly tied-up in 304, and 305 was just unmercifully prolonging its departure.
Of course it's up to you if you like the ending or not, but let me point out two rather factual things:
1. The whole season, but especially the last episode had it's grim moments, and the tone of the game was much more serious than the games in the previous season, so the stage was well set for a dramatic ending.
2. Max's reappearance had a perfectly proper explanation - what happened makes perfect sense in the Sam&Max universe.
If there's a Sam X who died too, though, then I console myself by choosing to believe that he and Max met up and are having fun together in the afterlife. Besides, they're hell's biggest contributors - even if that's where they end up heading, I doubt Satan's gonna put them through much eternal torment, considering all they've done for business.
Although despite all the theorys for getting Max P. back, we're probs going to have to settle with Max A. in any future seasons
That's not what I meant. I tried to say that the episode tried to be pretty dramatic (even if it felt unnatural at times, due to the convoluted plot and many Deus-Ex-Machinas), but all in all, the ending first shows us Max die (presumably), and then pushes in Max from the alternate timeline, and Sam just takes him in, just as if nothing happened. BUt it's not exactly Max he knew! Taking into account the amount of character development both Sam and Max had in that season, the new Max just makes the ending jarring in a VERY unpleasant way.
sam and max a have just finished their first case together and it's like sam a and max never died but suddenly they get transported to hell where max is waiting for them, big monologue, and then max a suddenly goes "but where's MY sam?" The electromagnetic properties of his powers stopped him from being able to become a spirit so it is impossible for him to ever be sen again. Now sam has to choose between max and max a.
And THAT is what I want them to fix this with.
Question to both of you: did you read the comics? It may be a big deal in our world to be killed off and replaced by a copy of ourselves, but for Sam and Max, it's probably not more inconvenient than losing your wallet. Try to see the story in its own context, it does make sense. Plus, as someone said in another thread, probably Giant Max and Giant Sam are together in the afterlife. Now those could be some adventures I'd like to watch! From a safe distance, though
Similarly, in 305 we see Max perform a truly good and unselfish deed, even it was only for Sam's sake. That teleporting into space dumbfounded me, at the same time I was in awe because of Max's heroism and fearing he would die. Yes, die, because everybody seemed to think that this was really a serious situation. The final gathering in the Cloning Facility was very sombre, almost desperate. Death seemed to really matter here. I know that death basically is no obstacle in Sam and Max's world, but here, it really seemed to matter.
And suddenly, boom, a new Max from alternate timeline is here. Different memories, different experiences, different attitude (heck, he killed alternate Sam and liked it!). With all that development Sam received in this season, the new Max just seems like an obsolete version that was cut from the earlier part and forcefully implanted somewhere else, where it doesn't even fit.
I dunno, maybe I'm reading too much into it, maybe TT want to make it all revert to status quo, but I'd be happy if the changes in Sam and Max I witnessed when travelling with them through this, greatest adventure would stay. Somehow, now I feel like my old buddies devolved suddenly and I'm too old for them.
Don't think so. I suppose they both will make a comeback in Season 4. Guess they will either be ressurected or appear as ghosts or Hell inhabitants. Or perhaps Sam will visit Heaven this time?
Really? That's not the impression I got at all. It seemed like he was apologetic towards Sam, even if it was another Sam that he blew up. I hardly think "It was horrible!" is interchangeable with "It was great!"
I mean max is dead. No final showdown. the guy being held at knife point during the credits wasnt a spy attacking a heavy:D
I get it is the same max at the end just from an alternate timeline where sam(maybe sammeth too) had the gift and probably that is it and they have the same memories. but still.:(
Either way im going for the fact that the max that died and instead of the afterlife he went to the inventory to play cards with the heavy(hey he died many times technically) and strong bad(died in 8-bit is enough technicaly) and tycho(got nothing)
Doesn't Gabe cut off his hand with a meat cleaver once to make him stop hiccuping?
And if the Heavy dying works for Gman's theory, so does Tycho.
Still, lots of set-up for Season 4, though. Might Stinky have escaped? Will Superball be a worse President than Max? Will Sam and Max be allowed to keep the elevator, or does Doc Brown hold a monopoly on time travel nowadays? What has happened to Harry? Has Sybil given birth successfully? Will Sal be replaced with his otherwise-identical twin brother? Will they have to change the name of the series to "Sam: Freelance Police" what with Max disappearing for various reasons every five minutes, perhaps more than was justified in a single season?
Yeah i never have seen/played a penny arcade game so i didnt know anything about tycho.
Yes, a lot of serious stuff happened in this season, but I'm not sure we've seen any proof that as a result, Sam matured. Max's "Save Sybil" scene was something I didn't like, to be honest, and chose to ignore it. IMO, to quote Terry Pratchett (almost), in Sam's and Max's World, character development is something that happens to other people. Or it doesn't.
About death: yes, it's not too serious in the game's universe. However, very serious is Sam without Max - this is basically against one of the fundamental rules of the universe. No wonder poor Sam's got rabid, and bitch slapped pretty much everyone in 303, from Frankie the rat to that enormous sign spinning gorilla twice his size.