Are you disagreeing that it's fun and not hurting anyone, or that it's sad?
If you mean it's not sad, then it's not wrong to disagree. What is wrong is coming in and insulting the people you disagree with for no reason other than that you disagree.
Actually I'm really confused about how everyone is sad. It's Sam and Max. Max is Max, and I guarantee you that they'll never even mention this again. And yeah, it does kinda annoy me when people try to interpret lighthearted things as depressing and sad because there's already a ton of drama and sadness in the world. I don't need it in my silly game about a bunny and a dog detective.
It's not like I don't have permission to come in and decry things I don't agree with.
If I see people throwing dog shit at each other on the street, I'm going to tell them that they're being dumb. Sure they're not hurting anyone, but its annoying and theres no reason to do so.
Tope is right. I never said that if you are sad, you're stupid and wrong. So let me make it clear: IF YOU ARE SAD, YOU ARE STUPID AND WRONG. One. Two. Three.
Let me point out where your not paying close enough attention...
Link 2 Pannel 2, max says "I'm inside you sam. Everything that makes me a unique individual (except for my bones, skin and organs, of course) is now contained within you"
note likewise that this DID NOT HAPPEN IN THE GAME!
I agree, but most things are explainable (to an extent) in the Sam and Max world. And some things are just downright unexplainable and ridiculous. In this case the continuity of Sam and Max NEEDS to be explained and/or resolved in some manner..... otherwise the storytelling could get crappy.
Hive mind or not, I guess all we can do is hold tight and continue to theorize. Maybe the writers will get an idea by reading our posts. Maybe Steve already has an idea.
I realized something that WAS in the game that supports this theory. Back in 301 Sam asks what the consequences of Max's powers are,
Momma B: "...his brain will catch fire and explode"
Max: "I have GOT to see that!"
Sam: "You wont be able to see it max"
Max: "That's why your going to record it for me, Duh!"
I thought this was just max being silly, but it sounds almost like he KNEW if he died he wouldn't be dead, ala Hive Mind.
I'm sure the writers have an idea, though I'm also pretty sure that anything we say isn't going to sway them into changing it...
IV. Don't attempt to destroy a discussion because you don't think it's worth discussing.
This basically covers the times where someone spots a thread they don't think should exist, and then does whatever they can to shut down any kind of constructive discussion that might occur there. This can include (but is not limited to) overtly asking why the thread exists in said thread, being mean to the original thread poster or respondents, deliberately trying to steer discussion towards something unrelated to the original topic, posting super-negative responses without a good reason (i.e., if it doesn't match the tone of the thread), or requesting a lock/deletion publicly while others are still trying to have a discussion. This does not mean you can't get in touch with us if you have a problem with a thread.
The quality of threads on our forums will vary, but please leave it up to the Telltale Team to judge a discussion's ultimate fate, and don't try to artificially make it a bad thread through non-constructive posting. Even if the subject matter is somewhat weak, you're not doing us a favor by making the thread tank. If you don't really have anything positive or relevant to contribute to a discussion, feel free to ignore it.
If I see people throwing dog shit at each other on the street, I'm going to tell them that they're being dumb. Sure they're not hurting anyone, but its annoying and theres no reason to do so.
That is hurting someone. It's unhygienic and possibly hazardous to bystanders. Besides, you can apply that metaphor to anything you don't like, like playing video games or eating tomatoes, so it's not a very good one.
Now wait, hold on. Just because I have a different opinion doesn't mean I'm trolling, even if it's a strong opinion. I'm genuinely curious. Sam died just as well as Max, and no one even cares.
But hold on, the thread is asking whether anyone else was sad. Not only people who were sad can post in here. It begs the question why can't I dislike what I want to dislike without being harassed about it.
And I'm being completely serious here, does anyone ever think of Sam?
On one side, you have a person who has evidence that this is simply Sam and Max humor. This proof utilizes precedent old enough that, if it were a person, it could vote and enlist in the military.
On the other, you have people complaining about a joke that, in the future, will never be referenced again and that will not have any effect whatsoever on the content of any episode yet to be made. Essentially, "THAT JOKE MADE ME SAAAAAAAAAAD".
This is the wrong reaction to the joke. In posts and tweets by the lead writer of the episode, Chuck, and the guy who did the direction for the final scene, Jake, this scene was not meant to be sad. If you are sad, you are literally wrong. Stupid is my assessment, simply because you can't take simple dramatic cues and understand the structure of humor within a cartoon series whose humor relies on one-liners and non-sequiturs.
Who has no content here?
If people are allowed to continue saying that Sam and Max humor is not appropriate within a Sam and Max game, it would be detrimental to the future of the series. The Sam and Max style of humor being shied away from because it might make stupid people sad will ruin the series for people who aren't dumb and actually know what they're getting into when something says Sam and Max on the box.
I think of Sam all the time. And while I don't agree with Rather Dashing's method of conveying his opinion, I agree with it and Giant Topes. Max's death isn't really sad considering the type of comedy we're dealing with, for me. Sam's wouldn't be either; although I did feel a twinge of sympathy for senile Sam in Season 2.
If the deaths were permanent I would be angry at something so series altering and stupid. And I don't get where people say the Max at the end isn't real Max.
Let me point out where your not paying close enough attention...
Link 2 Pannel 2, max says "I'm inside you sam. Everything that makes me a unique individual (except for my bones, skin and organs, of course) is now contained within you"
note likewise that this DID NOT HAPPEN IN THE GAME!
I realized something that WAS in the game that supports this theory. Back in 301 Sam asks what the consequences of Max's powers are,
Momma B: "...his brain will catch fire and explode"
Max: "I have GOT to see that!"
Sam: "You wont be able to see it max"
Max: "That's why your going to record it for me, Duh!"
I thought this was just max being silly, but it sounds almost like he KNEW if he died he wouldn't be dead, ala Hive Mind.
I'm sure the writers have an idea, though I'm also pretty sure that anything we say isn't going to sway them into changing it...
Excellent observation. I also thought about that. Hive mind it is, I suppose.
As for all of this back and forth about who should and shouldn't feel a certain way about the story; CALM DOWN. Yes it's Sam&Max and every bit of it is hilarious. But there's a human essence that also makes us sensitive to the character development and story. So yes, we're going to actually form an opinion in our minds about what we've just experienced and decide how we FEEL about it. At the same time it is an epic comedy saga.
In all fairness the ending did lean more towards drama. Emerson's score really nailed the impact as well. Maybe I'm just a softy though.
:cool:
But hold on, the thread is asking whether anyone else was sad. Not only people who were sad can post in here. It begs the question why can't I dislike what I want to dislike without being harassed about it.
And I'm being completely serious here, does anyone ever think of Sam?
Nobody said you couldnt state your opinion buy saying that "because you have a different opinion your stupid and wrong!" is trolling - this has started many wars in the past, most notably The Crusades
To be honest, it didnt hit me hard, but I did feel a twinge of sadness during that silent moment when we were told that monster-sam was killed too in alternate-max's timeline.
Some people just see things on a more emotional scale than others. Perhaps the ending was intended to be viewed as a "happy ending" and it was atleast a reset to status-quo (minus no max-lost-his-powers jokes, but added in sam-as-an-electromagnetic-monster jokes) Some people over-analize things (as is clear from most of us posting in this thread, digging into any little detail we can find to explain our PoV) that's just life.
And I'm not saying you guys who aren't sad are wrong. I'm not saying those of us who are sad are right. This is Art, and Art is open to interpretation.
Excellent observation. I also thought about that. Hive mind it is, I suppose.
As for all of this back and forth about who should and shouldn't feel a certain way about the story; CALM DOWN. Yes it's Sam&Max and every bit of it is hilarious. But there's a human essence that also makes us sensitive to the character development and story. So yes, we're going to actually form an opinion in our minds about what we've just experienced and decide how we FEEL about it. At the same time it is an epic comedy saga.
In all fairness the ending did lean more towards drama. Emerson's score really nailed the impact as well. Maybe I'm just a softy though.
:cool:
Hive mind works for me, very odd, but ends most of the sadness.
Well said.
Oh yes, absolutely perfect score for that final scene.
EDIT x2:
Now I seriously wonder if there will be a joke in 401 where max asks "sam did you remember to tape my brain catchign fire and exploding for me?" lol
But hold on, the thread is asking whether anyone else was sad. Not only people who were sad can post in here. It begs the question why can't I dislike what I want to dislike without being harassed about it.
And I'm being completely serious here, does anyone ever think of Sam?
Sam is too awesome to die! Judging from the current reaction; If it happened the other way around, if we experienced Max's story, S*** would hit the fan.
I admit, I had to google that. I had no idea about Godwin's Law
and the "so die!!!" was refering to my example of the crusades - an EXTREME example of opinions taken to the worst levels and what can happen.
Right, and I could see a guy eating a bit more than he should at a buffet and compare them directly to Jon Brower Minnoch, and it wouldn't exactly be accurate or relevant.
Actually I'm really confused about how everyone is sad. It's Sam and Max. Max is Max, and I guarantee you that they'll never even mention this again. And yeah, it does kinda annoy me when people try to interpret lighthearted things as depressing and sad because there's already a ton of drama and sadness in the world. I don't need it in my silly game about a bunny and a dog detective.
See, I agree with this, and yet I felt melancholic when I saw Sam sagging down the street. I knew Max would be back, but it was simply a sad scene, written to be sad, choreographed to be sad. And yes, Max is now back, and there's no need to be mooning about it any more.
This is the wrong reaction to the joke. In posts and tweets by the lead writer of the episode, Chuck, and the guy who did the direction for the final scene, Jake, this scene was not meant to be sad. If you are sad, you are literally wrong.
Or, you're wrong for taking the intentions of the creators for granted. Some of these statements were quite confusing (confused?), Jake once said that they were trying to be emotional on purpose, then both said it wasn't meant to be taken seriously. I'm not sure what to make of it, actually, but the next to last scene did came out much more emotional than intended, based on the later statements. Or it came out as intended, and the creators later didn't intend to intend it to be so serious? Hard to tell...
Past Sam's death is less sad because we don't see it, we don't see any reactions to it beyond Past Max looking uncomfortable for a second, and it's not the Sam we've been following. There's no emotional attachment, he's just some alternate Sam who died offscreen.
Also, belittling people for reacting differently to a work of fiction like there's one true way to react is really childish, and that's the last thing I'm going to say about that.
Past Sam's death is less sad because we don't see it, we don't see any reactions to it beyond Past Max looking uncomfortable for a second, and it's not the Sam we've been following. There's no emotional attachment, he's just some alternate Sam who died offscreen.
Also, belittling people for reacting differently to a work of fiction like there's one true way to react is really childish, and that's the last thing I'm going to say about that.
Past Sam's death is less sad because we don't see it, we don't see any reactions to it beyond Past Max looking uncomfortable for a second, and it's not the Sam we've been following. There's no emotional attachment, he's just some alternate Sam who died offscreen.
Also, belittling people for reacting differently to a work of fiction like there's one true way to react is really childish, and that's the last thing I'm going to say about that.
Past Sam's death is less sad because we don't see it, we don't see any reactions to it beyond Past Max looking uncomfortable for a second, and it's not the Sam we've been following. There's no emotional attachment, he's just some alternate Sam who died offscreen.
It's not some alternate Sam though. It's the same Sam that we played as for the first two episodes. Saying it doesn't matter because you don't see it is just like having two burglars break into your house and both steal 5 bucks. Now in one case, the burglar comes and steals it from your face. In the second case, the other burglar steals it in front of your roommate. Your roommate tells you that a burglar came and stole five bucks from his side. They're both equally as bad events. Except in this case, it's all a practical joke by your good friends. Because that's what this whole ending is about. A joke. I bet you anything it'll never be referenced to again. Because it's a joke in classic style of Sam and Max where something overly dramatic happens and then it's underplayed like it never happened with little or no explanation.
In reference to "which Max is going to play in Poker Night at the Inventory", Jake had to say this:
I can confirm that it's Max who is playing poker. This is of course the same Max who appears in Sam & Max comics, the Sam & Max Freelance Police cartoon show, the classic video game Sam & Max Hit the Road, as well as the same Max who hijacked a time machine from himself to escape certain doom in Sam & Max Beyond Time and Space, and the same Max who became a gigantic beast horrible beyond imagination in Sam & Max The Devil's Playhouse. As Max would probably say, "Its the same guy!"
Also, belittling people for reacting differently to a work of fiction like there's one true way to react is really childish, and that's the last thing I'm going to say about that.
Now hold on. There's almost a pride here for being sad. Why? This is SAM AND MAX we're talking about here. It's supposed to be a humorous non-sequitur ending here. It's like seeing a group of people who thought the ending to Grave of the Fireflies was hilarious. Then when you tell them that that wasn't the intended outcome at all and that they are, in fact, being silly about this, they fight back and say that you're the stupid one and that you're childish for not being able to see their view points.
By all means, if you feel so offended by the fact that "THE REAL MAX" was killed off, don't buy any more seasons. You obviously don't get the humor of it and won't be able to get the maximum amount of enjoyment out of it anyways. And I'm not being mean about this. Some people just don't get certain series. I don't get the big deal behind Gears of War or LOST, so I just don't partake.
Of course, that would be pretty mean to do to Telltale over a throw-away joke.
It's not some alternate Sam though. It's the same Sam that we played as for the first two episodes. Saying it doesn't matter because you don't see it is just like having two burglars break into your house and both steal 5 bucks. Now in one case, the burglar comes and steals it from your face. In the second case, the other burglar steals it in front of your roommate. Your roommate tells you that a burglar came and stole five bucks from his side. They're both equally as bad events. Except in this case, it's all a practical joke by your good friends. Because that's what this whole ending is about. A joke. I bet you anything it'll never be referenced to again. Because it's a joke in classic style of Sam and Max where something overly dramatic happens and then it's underplayed like it never happened with little or no explanation.
That's not the same thing at all. It's more like someone stole five dollars from an alternate dimension version of you that split off years ago. Besides, part of the reason I thought the ending was so sad was that I was emphasising with Sam, who just lost his lifelong best friend after spending the episode trying desperately to save him. You don't get any of that with Past Sam.
Then when you tell them that that wasn't the intended outcome at all and that they are, in fact, being silly about this, they fight back and say that you're the stupid one and that you're childish for not being able to see their view points.
Telling someone that it's not the emotion is was supposed to evoke is not the same as belittling and insulting them for feeling a different emotion.
By all means, if you feel so offended by the fact that "THE REAL MAX" was killed off, don't buy any more seasons.
I really don't think you understand the point of this thread.
Reminds me of one of Oscar Wilde's aphorisms: "One must have a heart of stone to read the death of Little Nell without laughing." Seriously though, people can have different emotional responses to things they watch/read, and telling them that they're not responding in the 'right' way is pretty wanky. Unless you're the author/director/whatever, then I guess you get a say. (though I'm pretty sure that nobody would agree with Uwe Boll)
I did think it was kinda poignant that you spend all of the last episode trying to find a way to return Max to normal so that he doesn't get nuked, only for him to, well, get nuked. Had Sam then picked up his frazzled ears and made a hand-puppet out of them in this instance then it would immediately have lost any poignancy, but in this case he didn't. Of course, then Past Max arrives and the status quo is restored, and everything goes back to normal. (or at least as normal as things get) And I don't have a problem with that because hey, it's Sam & Max. But I don't see what's wrong with people finding it sad that the 'original' Max is gone. But on the plus side, at least Past Max hasn't had the emotional breakthrough that the 'real' Max did in wanting to save Sybil. Just imagine if the consequences of that had been a kinder, gentler, more cultured Max. Ewww.
@ Giant Trope You say they can't see other people's view points but your being very hypercritical because you said before that the way you saw the ending was the right way and if anyone saw it any other way they'd be wrong. If your logic was true people would still not discuss Hamlet because the right way was he was mad or he wasn't mad but the fact that it was so open for interpretation is why it's still studied now.
You say they can't see other people's view points but your being very hypercritical because you said before that the way you saw the ending was the right way and if anyone saw it any other way they'd be wrong. If your logic was true people would still not discuss Hamlet because the right way was he was mad or he wasn't mad but the fact that it was so open for interpretation is why it's still studied now.
There are certain times where this is true. I'm sorry to say, but Sam and Max isn't one of them. But I digress
I actually had to think of why the fuck do I even care about stupid unimportant things said on a silly forum. Because you guys are partially right in the the fact that if you guys want to metaphorically frolic like children in a field of flowers that is the forums without opposition, you should be free to. 5 months ago, I wouldn't of. Or at least, I would have bitten my tongue. I think its because reality bit me in the ass and I'm at a junction between still wanting to post and being super cynical and not posting at all. So you guys are getting the bad side of me when I think things are stupid. So, sorry to get this side of me. I've said what I wanted to said, so whatever.
This cool story bro moment was brought to you by Giant Tope, for all your Topiary needs.
I was sad when the credits were rolling and Sam was walking the streets so lonely and glum.
But, once Max turned up the sadness went away.
As for the confusion around Max, as many people pointed out: it's the same Max, just the Max up to Chariots of the Dogs. To help make some sense out of the time travel and paradox duplicates, think of it in terms of the first Futurama movie, Bender's Big Score. In that movie, the universe corrected itself from any paradoxes by killing any paradoxal time duplicates.
The paradoxal time duplicate Sam and Max from Chariots of the Dogs are not from an alternate dimension (spoiler from Bender's Big Score ahead)
Just as Lars Filmore was the paradoxal time duplicate Fry
, and the case they were on where Sam gained electromagnetic powers occurred in the same dimension as the Sam and Max from The Devil's Playhouse, just in a different location and/or a different time period.
The universe corrected itself since two identical beings shouldn't exist simultaneously in the same universe. So, the pre-Chariots of the Dogs Sam was killed when he became a giant beast, and the Max from The Devil's Playhouse was killed in a similar manner. With the paradox corrected, Sam and Max reunited.
So there's no need to revisit the events of The City that Dares Not Sleep, since the story already tied up all the loose ends.
I was sad when the credits were rolling and Sam was walking the streets so lonely and glum.
But, once Max turned up the sadness went away.
Or did it? I apologize in advance for revisiting this topic and opening any old can-o-worms. I was thinking of starting a new thread but decided this was a suitable place for this topic.
Is anyone else wondering what Sam might really be thinking? Has he truly left behind the events of the Devil's Playhouse? I think it'd be funny if TTG made a sit down interview with Sam and a Martin Bashir-like reporter discussing the Freelance Police's most recent case. Imagine the awkward pauses and camera cuts.
"Sam, would you consider yourself a put together person?"
Sam: "Well of course. (Straightens tie) In what sense do you mean, though?"
"In your line of work there are, no doubt, casualties and the like.
Sam: "There's no doubt about that."
"You and partner seem- close. How well do you deal with death?"
Sam: "I- Well you see- (looks away) Camera zooms in as it focuses
I think I'd be laughing hysterically if this were just made into a 2 minute animation.:D What do you all think?
I've been meaning to post in this thread for awhile now, but I didn't realize this subject would be so polarizing. Seriously, some people liked the humor of the ending and some didn't. Is this really something to get so angry over? I don't think anyone on either side of the argument is saying "You HAVE to feel sad about the ending!" or "You HAVE to think the ending is funny!" It really is up to interpretation, and we're just discussing it because (I think) we all find it fun to talk about these things. Sure, the creators had a particular idea in mind when they made the ending--namely that it was supposed to be so melodramatic as to be funny--and people who felt the same way laughed with it. That's fine. But we shouldn't begrudge people who felt differently, nor should we tell them "Just ignore it--it fits in the Sam & Max universe, so deal with it." We can all have different opinions and discuss them. I think that's part of what makes us fans of anything, be it a game about a silly crimefighting duo or classical films or whatever.
With that off my chest, here are my thoughts--I'm on the side of those who felt uneasy about the ending. It struck me as disappointing for two reasons:
First, I will grant that dei ex machina are a common occurrence in the S&M universe, but in every case I can think of where Max has died/the timeline has changed or whatever, the original versions of the characters have been brought back. Because of this, I don't see why it would have been difficult to employ a deus ex machina that brought Max Prime back. As someone mentioned earlier, a little flaming lagomorph asteroid careening into the ground near Sam would have been hilarious and would have still returned the status quo.
Second, Sam made a HUGE deal about the Max spores being fakes, so why does he suddenly consider a Max from an alternate universe, who has lived a completely different 2 years and change, to be just as genuine as Max Prime? Another ending that I think would have been fun is that if the clone pod had worked, then Sam could have traveled back to Hell to find his little buddy's soul and joined it to the clone body using the Soul Mater from Season 2. Either way, I didn't see why there couldn't have been a melodramatic ending that still brought back the original Max.
Does this mean I hate this episode? Absolutely not. Telltale has continued to wow me with each season of Sam & Max, and I wouldn't want them to change anything about Season 3. I just have one little disagreement with a creative decision they made, but I will agree that it totally fits in the Sam & Max universe and that it shows an astounding appreciation for continuity that doesn't happen in a lot of other games, especially not ones about a canine shamus and a hyperkinetic rabbity thing. Plus, if the ending to The City That Dares Not Sleep is never mentioned again, I can just pretend that my version of the ending happened and continue on my merry way.
Comments
Actually I'm really confused about how everyone is sad. It's Sam and Max. Max is Max, and I guarantee you that they'll never even mention this again. And yeah, it does kinda annoy me when people try to interpret lighthearted things as depressing and sad because there's already a ton of drama and sadness in the world. I don't need it in my silly game about a bunny and a dog detective.
It's not like I don't have permission to come in and decry things I don't agree with.
If I see people throwing dog shit at each other on the street, I'm going to tell them that they're being dumb. Sure they're not hurting anyone, but its annoying and theres no reason to do so.
oh u
I DON'T WANT TO BE RIGHT.
I do it anyway though.
Let me point out where your not paying close enough attention...
Link 2 Pannel 2, max says "I'm inside you sam. Everything that makes me a unique individual (except for my bones, skin and organs, of course) is now contained within you"
note likewise that this DID NOT HAPPEN IN THE GAME!
I realized something that WAS in the game that supports this theory. Back in 301 Sam asks what the consequences of Max's powers are,
Momma B: "...his brain will catch fire and explode"
Max: "I have GOT to see that!"
Sam: "You wont be able to see it max"
Max: "That's why your going to record it for me, Duh!"
I thought this was just max being silly, but it sounds almost like he KNEW if he died he wouldn't be dead, ala Hive Mind.
I'm sure the writers have an idea, though I'm also pretty sure that anything we say isn't going to sway them into changing it...
Fuck, why isn't anyone being sad by Sam? He died too!
He's a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT CHARACTER that we have no reason to love or care about!
That is hurting someone. It's unhygienic and possibly hazardous to bystanders. Besides, you can apply that metaphor to anything you don't like, like playing video games or eating tomatoes, so it's not a very good one.
Uh, the more I can apply it to, the more it's relevant in this case.
And I'm being completely serious here, does anyone ever think of Sam?
On the other, you have people complaining about a joke that, in the future, will never be referenced again and that will not have any effect whatsoever on the content of any episode yet to be made. Essentially, "THAT JOKE MADE ME SAAAAAAAAAAD".
This is the wrong reaction to the joke. In posts and tweets by the lead writer of the episode, Chuck, and the guy who did the direction for the final scene, Jake, this scene was not meant to be sad. If you are sad, you are literally wrong. Stupid is my assessment, simply because you can't take simple dramatic cues and understand the structure of humor within a cartoon series whose humor relies on one-liners and non-sequiturs.
Who has no content here?
If people are allowed to continue saying that Sam and Max humor is not appropriate within a Sam and Max game, it would be detrimental to the future of the series. The Sam and Max style of humor being shied away from because it might make stupid people sad will ruin the series for people who aren't dumb and actually know what they're getting into when something says Sam and Max on the box.
If the deaths were permanent I would be angry at something so series altering and stupid. And I don't get where people say the Max at the end isn't real Max.
Excellent observation. I also thought about that. Hive mind it is, I suppose.
As for all of this back and forth about who should and shouldn't feel a certain way about the story; CALM DOWN. Yes it's Sam&Max and every bit of it is hilarious. But there's a human essence that also makes us sensitive to the character development and story. So yes, we're going to actually form an opinion in our minds about what we've just experienced and decide how we FEEL about it. At the same time it is an epic comedy saga.
In all fairness the ending did lean more towards drama. Emerson's score really nailed the impact as well. Maybe I'm just a softy though.
:cool:
Nobody said you couldnt state your opinion buy saying that "because you have a different opinion your stupid and wrong!" is trolling - this has started many wars in the past, most notably The Crusades
To be honest, it didnt hit me hard, but I did feel a twinge of sadness during that silent moment when we were told that monster-sam was killed too in alternate-max's timeline.
Some people just see things on a more emotional scale than others. Perhaps the ending was intended to be viewed as a "happy ending" and it was atleast a reset to status-quo (minus no max-lost-his-powers jokes, but added in sam-as-an-electromagnetic-monster jokes) Some people over-analize things (as is clear from most of us posting in this thread, digging into any little detail we can find to explain our PoV) that's just life.
And I'm not saying you guys who aren't sad are wrong. I'm not saying those of us who are sad are right. This is Art, and Art is open to interpretation.
EDIT:
Hive mind works for me, very odd, but ends most of the sadness.
Well said.
Oh yes, absolutely perfect score for that final scene.
EDIT x2:
Now I seriously wonder if there will be a joke in 401 where max asks "sam did you remember to tape my brain catchign fire and exploding for me?" lol
telling someone they're being stupid is not akin to mass murder. sorry, buddy.
Seems to me you're just trying to sidestep Godwin.
Sam is too awesome to die! Judging from the current reaction; If it happened the other way around, if we experienced Max's story, S*** would hit the fan.
I admit, I had to google that. I had no idea about Godwin's Law
and the "so die!!!" was refering to my example of the crusades - an EXTREME example of opinions taken to the worst levels and what can happen.
See, I agree with this, and yet I felt melancholic when I saw Sam sagging down the street. I knew Max would be back, but it was simply a sad scene, written to be sad, choreographed to be sad. And yes, Max is now back, and there's no need to be mooning about it any more.
Or, you're wrong for taking the intentions of the creators for granted. Some of these statements were quite confusing (confused?), Jake once said that they were trying to be emotional on purpose, then both said it wasn't meant to be taken seriously. I'm not sure what to make of it, actually, but the next to last scene did came out much more emotional than intended, based on the later statements. Or it came out as intended, and the creators later didn't intend to intend it to be so serious? Hard to tell...
Also, belittling people for reacting differently to a work of fiction like there's one true way to react is really childish, and that's the last thing I'm going to say about that.
I am glad they brought Max back. You just can't kill off a character like him! IS this the Max from the alternative timestream duo in 204?
Also ^this.
Well said.
In reference to "which Max is going to play in Poker Night at the Inventory", Jake had to say this: Now hold on. There's almost a pride here for being sad. Why? This is SAM AND MAX we're talking about here. It's supposed to be a humorous non-sequitur ending here. It's like seeing a group of people who thought the ending to Grave of the Fireflies was hilarious. Then when you tell them that that wasn't the intended outcome at all and that they are, in fact, being silly about this, they fight back and say that you're the stupid one and that you're childish for not being able to see their view points.
By all means, if you feel so offended by the fact that "THE REAL MAX" was killed off, don't buy any more seasons. You obviously don't get the humor of it and won't be able to get the maximum amount of enjoyment out of it anyways. And I'm not being mean about this. Some people just don't get certain series. I don't get the big deal behind Gears of War or LOST, so I just don't partake.
Of course, that would be pretty mean to do to Telltale over a throw-away joke.
Telling someone that it's not the emotion is was supposed to evoke is not the same as belittling and insulting them for feeling a different emotion.
I really don't think you understand the point of this thread.
I have to admit that I'm a little lost as to what the controversy is.
I did think it was kinda poignant that you spend all of the last episode trying to find a way to return Max to normal so that he doesn't get nuked, only for him to, well, get nuked. Had Sam then picked up his frazzled ears and made a hand-puppet out of them in this instance then it would immediately have lost any poignancy, but in this case he didn't. Of course, then Past Max arrives and the status quo is restored, and everything goes back to normal. (or at least as normal as things get) And I don't have a problem with that because hey, it's Sam & Max. But I don't see what's wrong with people finding it sad that the 'original' Max is gone. But on the plus side, at least Past Max hasn't had the emotional breakthrough that the 'real' Max did in wanting to save Sybil. Just imagine if the consequences of that had been a kinder, gentler, more cultured Max. Ewww.
Max is Max
Both died, Both were re-united. BRING ON THE SEASON 4!
There are certain times where this is true. I'm sorry to say, but Sam and Max isn't one of them. But I digress
I actually had to think of why the fuck do I even care about stupid unimportant things said on a silly forum. Because you guys are partially right in the the fact that if you guys want to metaphorically frolic like children in a field of flowers that is the forums without opposition, you should be free to. 5 months ago, I wouldn't of. Or at least, I would have bitten my tongue. I think its because reality bit me in the ass and I'm at a junction between still wanting to post and being super cynical and not posting at all. So you guys are getting the bad side of me when I think things are stupid. So, sorry to get this side of me. I've said what I wanted to said, so whatever.
This cool story bro moment was brought to you by Giant Tope, for all your Topiary needs.
But, once Max turned up the sadness went away.
As for the confusion around Max, as many people pointed out: it's the same Max, just the Max up to Chariots of the Dogs. To help make some sense out of the time travel and paradox duplicates, think of it in terms of the first Futurama movie, Bender's Big Score. In that movie, the universe corrected itself from any paradoxes by killing any paradoxal time duplicates.
The paradoxal time duplicate Sam and Max from Chariots of the Dogs are not from an alternate dimension (spoiler from Bender's Big Score ahead)
The universe corrected itself since two identical beings shouldn't exist simultaneously in the same universe. So, the pre-Chariots of the Dogs Sam was killed when he became a giant beast, and the Max from The Devil's Playhouse was killed in a similar manner. With the paradox corrected, Sam and Max reunited.
So there's no need to revisit the events of The City that Dares Not Sleep, since the story already tied up all the loose ends.
Or did it? I apologize in advance for revisiting this topic and opening any old can-o-worms. I was thinking of starting a new thread but decided this was a suitable place for this topic.
Is anyone else wondering what Sam might really be thinking? Has he truly left behind the events of the Devil's Playhouse? I think it'd be funny if TTG made a sit down interview with Sam and a Martin Bashir-like reporter discussing the Freelance Police's most recent case. Imagine the awkward pauses and camera cuts.
"Sam, would you consider yourself a put together person?"
Sam: "Well of course. (Straightens tie) In what sense do you mean, though?"
"In your line of work there are, no doubt, casualties and the like.
Sam: "There's no doubt about that."
"You and partner seem- close. How well do you deal with death?"
Sam: "I- Well you see- (looks away) Camera zooms in as it focuses
I think I'd be laughing hysterically if this were just made into a 2 minute animation.:D What do you all think?
With that off my chest, here are my thoughts--I'm on the side of those who felt uneasy about the ending. It struck me as disappointing for two reasons:
First, I will grant that dei ex machina are a common occurrence in the S&M universe, but in every case I can think of where Max has died/the timeline has changed or whatever, the original versions of the characters have been brought back. Because of this, I don't see why it would have been difficult to employ a deus ex machina that brought Max Prime back. As someone mentioned earlier, a little flaming lagomorph asteroid careening into the ground near Sam would have been hilarious and would have still returned the status quo.
Second, Sam made a HUGE deal about the Max spores being fakes, so why does he suddenly consider a Max from an alternate universe, who has lived a completely different 2 years and change, to be just as genuine as Max Prime? Another ending that I think would have been fun is that if the clone pod had worked, then Sam could have traveled back to Hell to find his little buddy's soul and joined it to the clone body using the Soul Mater from Season 2. Either way, I didn't see why there couldn't have been a melodramatic ending that still brought back the original Max.
Does this mean I hate this episode? Absolutely not. Telltale has continued to wow me with each season of Sam & Max, and I wouldn't want them to change anything about Season 3. I just have one little disagreement with a creative decision they made, but I will agree that it totally fits in the Sam & Max universe and that it shows an astounding appreciation for continuity that doesn't happen in a lot of other games, especially not ones about a canine shamus and a hyperkinetic rabbity thing. Plus, if the ending to The City That Dares Not Sleep is never mentioned again, I can just pretend that my version of the ending happened and continue on my merry way.
Best wishes, all.