it wasn't an alternate universe, it happened in the future, also sam had electromagnetic powers not psychic powers.
Future? no it happened in the exact same time during the devils playhouse. The new max is the one from 204 that timetraveled when the spaceship exploded. He and the other sam had their one adventures and during one of them, that sam had apparently turned into the giant monster and max had to kill him. It didnt happened in the future(well it could have due to time travel but yeah) That also means that the max is the same max just this max and this sam have different memories of eatchother from 102(yes 102) onward.
Taking into account the amount of character development both Sam and Max had in that season, the new Max just makes the ending jarring in a VERY unpleasant way.
I'm sure Max had plenty of his own character development to which we were not an audience.
Hell, for all we know, the other Sam & Max have had years more adventures than the "Main" ones(we) did.
Not just because "real" max supposedly was vaporized. But because "new max" replacing him felt kinda tacked on. I don't know about you guys. But any seasons after Season 3, I won't be able to look at Max without thinking "That's not the real Max!!" Not to mention Sam so readily accepting this other Max as his new bestest little buddy.
First of all, the "new" Max isn't really new. He's a paradoxical offshoot of a Max from an alternative time line, in which Sam & Max get their music contract stolen from them & never complete Season 1 in the same way.
Plus, the Max that died was starting to develop some personal growth & maturity. He *HAD* to die, such blasphemy cannot be tolerated.
After years playing these games and loving these characters I decided to finally join the forums to share some thoughts. First of all, i must say that I loved this 3rd season, not only some episodes, as with the previous ones, but as a whole. The story was so gripping that I would stay awake at night because I needed to know what would happen next.
On the other hand, though, I admit that the way in which they brought back Max at the end, kind of ruined the final impression. I felt so sad, because it seemed to me as if one of the protagonists was dead, and they tried to replace him with a minor character. I know that the new Max is also Max: same appearance, same DNA, more or less same personality...But from the point of view of the player he's just a minor character who had a brief role in just one episode of the previous season. We never heard again about him and the other Sam, and it really didn't matter, because they were just anecdotic characters. That's why the ending didn't work to me.
I don't know, it felt as if Max was still dead and no matter how much they tried to make a happy ending, the result was nonetheless depressing.
I hate to be so pessimistic, but I really really would like to see the original Max returning as playable character in the next season (if they make it, which I hope they'll do).
Well, I liked this season and the ending. At least it brings back Max without having episode 401 being about trying to find Max's body in space.
And the ending is suitable for the characters. In the animated show, there's an episode where Max buys a time traveling watch and he screws up the time-stream so that Sam and Max never met up properly to begin the Freelance Police. Sam is a meditation guru monk with a pet grooming business until his adventure with Max unlocks his proper personality, fixing the time-stream. It's kinda like in Back to the Future part 2 (unique since Telltale is going to do a BttF series) were Biff's control of the city is obliterated once the proper events are aligned.
Speaking of BttF, the ending is almost similar to the end of Back to the Future Part 3, where Marty is sad that he will never see his friend Doc again until *poof* time-traveling steampunk train.
The episode prepares us for the time elevator, if you clicked on the Mariachi Frogs in Max's Inventory. Sam tries to summon the mariachis with an emphasis on 'Birthday' but it doesn't work. It's important to note that the time elevator is basically a TARDIS since it travels through time and space, although instead of spatial warped ship it had a host ship. So I have no problem with the unexpected reunion of Sam and Max. If you didn't like the ending, don't watch Doctor Who. His dimension hopping would drive any linear thinking nut crazy.
If there's anything I'm really sad for, it's Grandpa Stinky's original body that was also on Skunkape's ship before it blew up. I'm going to miss his accent in any possible future season.
Also, did anybody notice the giant cockroach that climbs over the building as the camera pans off Sam and Max to the sunrise? While it's too big and there's no means to relate it to Sal, it did make me think of him. His death at radiation was kinda contradictory, since Sam Jr. handled a dosing just fine.
And another thing to point out that Max always possessed the latent ability to use psychic powers, were as alternate Sam just developed some electromagnetic powers. So Max still has the ability but its doubtful he would ever have the chance to unlock them since most of the toys are destroyed back to the Dark Dimension. (And Troy the Chthonic Destroyer was most likely left in giant max and is destroyed/floating through space. The Narrator/Super Ego will also stay dormant too.)
All in all I was happy at this conclusion. But I'm curious: Does the adventure loving/crime fighting choice really change the topic of dialog when Sam and Max reunite?
EDIT: Found the right forum topic for the multiple endings. I still like the Crime Fighting ending, since that's the only one with the giant cockroach, but both are great.
When the credits started rolling, and Sam was walking, I uttered "What the f**k, this cant happen!" and I started to feel like crying, then the elevator appeared.
I think it was a clever way to make room for a next season without Max having supernatural powers. The Max we have now is still Max! He and Sam still share the same past, only Max isn't up to date to what happend in season 3. So what?
The only thing i didn't understand is, why Stinky wanted grandypa dead and tried to get Flint to kill him?
And why was she after him at all, when they aren't even related?
I think it was a clever way to make room for a next season without Max having supernatural powers. The Max we have now is still Max! He and Sam still share the same past, only Max isn't up to date to what happend in season 3. So what?
The only thing i didn't understand is, why Stinky wanted grandypa dead and tried to get Flint to kill him?
And why was she after him at all, when they aren't even related?
I think Max will know about the events of the season even though the other form of him died. That's just how his mind works.
and Stinky wanted Grandpa Stinky dead so she would have the diner. We don't know why she wanted the diner but she was willing to kill for it.
Stinky wanted Grandpa Stinky dead so she would have the diner. We don't know why she wanted the diner but she was willing to kill for it.
She most likely wanted Grandpa Stinky's recipes so she could make a fortune from them as super-adhesives like she did in an alternate reality in Chariots of the Dogs.
A little while ago, I listened to "World of Max." I've been perfectly fine lately, but when I heard it, I almost fell apart. It sounded almost like a eulogy.
A little while ago, I listened to "World of Max." I've been perfectly fine lately, but when I heard it, I almost fell apart. It sounded almost like a eulogy.
I had actually thought 5 or 10 minutes before the end that if Max is dead, Sam should just hop in the time machine from season 2 and bring back Max from the past. This was completely as a joke, because it was obviously nonsensical, paradoxical and stupid - since if Max were taken from the past, none of the events after that could ever have happened.
I was a bit amazed when said time machine ACTUALLY SHOWED UP. And it still seems just as ridiculous. Mind you, that could be because my memory of season 2 is a bit foggy... I think my mind exploded from the paradoxes in 204 already (like the fact that our Sam and Max's past couldn't have happened, or they should have ended up in an alternate future), so I just blocked it all out, and now they've come back again.
I really liked 305 story-wise, but I thought the puzzles were really lacking. I can't remember ever really getting stuck for most of the Devil's Playhouse, actually. I don't know if there's a point in keeping the puzzles so simple (especially in terms of items) when we're three seasons in, often several episodes into a season, and we have a hint system anyway.
I had actually thought 5 or 10 minutes before the end that if Max is dead, Sam should just hop in the time machine from season 2 and bring back Max from the past. This was completely as a joke, because it was obviously nonsensical, paradoxical and stupid - since if Max were taken from the past, none of the events after that could ever have happened.
I was a bit amazed when said time machine ACTUALLY SHOWED UP. And it still seems just as ridiculous. Mind you, that could be because my memory of season 2 is a bit foggy... I think my mind exploded from the paradoxes in 204 already (like the fact that our Sam and Max's past couldn't have happened, or they should have ended up in an alternate future), so I just blocked it all out, and now they've come back again.
I really liked 305 story-wise, but I thought the puzzles were really lacking. I can't remember ever really getting stuck for most of the Devil's Playhouse, actually. I don't know if there's a point in keeping the puzzles so simple (especially in terms of items) when we're three seasons in, often several episodes into a season, and we have a hint system anyway.
Have you seen GuruGuru's Awesome Chart of Paradoxical Explanation? I totally made up that title but it's real I tell you! Someone get that chart!
Somehow this paradox thing is going to play a role in the future season. That's my bet.
Also, Shwoo:mad:, you gave me melancholy just now
Artistically speaking; Excellent choice in editing !
Hey Shwoo can you make a video of the Adventuring ending and sync it to this song? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPrADQ8GaxA
Or you can just make a Sam and Max video with the song. PLEASE:D
I feel it really reflects their friendship and regardless of what happens in their lives they don't care; they'll always be best buddies doing what they do! And it really goes well with the Adventuring ending, all the way up to when they get in the elevator.
You all seem to have missed the most obvious solution to saving Max - upto his death he has psychic powers, he had ASTRAL PROJECTION, he could just project into another body. (this is what I was expecting the outcome of the cloning scene to be, a mindless clone like the dogglegangers and we see max's consciousness drop into it and all is right with the world)
I do think it would be amusing to have Sam meet up with the original Max in hell, but I can see it as rather anticlimactic:
Sam: your not mad that I replaced you, Max?
Max: I'm dead, Sam, why should I care?
@ impossible:
I had, I think 3 times in this season I had to look up hints. first was 302's ending because the torch was so small and recessed into the background I didn't know it was clickable. second, the boss battle of 304 (again I missed the miniscule (and short-lived) hotspot of the sheet music on the piano, and finally in the beginning of 305 because I didnt know sam could move while taunting Maxthulu with the corndog. I think it's great the way they're using more logical (relativly speaking) puzzles. I had to all but use a walk through in some of the first season, and had to look up puzzles in S2 atleast 2x per eppisode. I just REALLY REALLY REALLY wish they'd make important clickables more noticeable and easier to click! (or allude to them in hints ala "the samulera seem to be controlled by the music, if I change it...")
Also I admit not catching the Mariachi frogs joke, I thought it was a gag I missed and sam was waiting to hear laughter or for Max (who of course wasn't there) to make the 2nd half of the joke.
Also I doubt this will change the series's timeline any (except perhaps a passing reference in the future) because it really *IS* kinda expected for the S+M universe (though as pointed out many times, why Sam couldnt just go down to hell and retrieve Max after he died isnt quite clear)
On a side note, I'm a little sad Sammunmak died, he was a wonderful stand-in during the first part of 203 and an amusing villain from part 2 onwards
((and sorry I made another thread about this, didnt see this one))
@Ashton
That's the exact same idea I had with astral projection and even a full blown theory! But Chuck, comes along and says Max has a hive mind is aware of all instances of his existence.
I couldn't tell if he was being sarcastic or not.
I hope he was.... I'd rather see something much more interesting!
@Ashton
That's the exact same idea I had with astral projection and even a full blown theory! But Chuck, comes along and says Max has a hive mind is aware of all instances of his existence.
I couldn't tell if he was being sarcastic or not.
I hope he was.... I'd rather see something much more interesting!
If max truely is a hive mind, then the current max _IS_ the same max... which would explain why he sought out our sam, since he knew that he was just blown to bits in this universe...
I rather doubt TTG/Steve will take this rout, but I have to admit, it does make sense...
If max truely is a hive mind, then the current max _IS_ the same max... which would explain why he sought out our sam, since he knew that he was just blown to bits in this universe...
I rather doubt TTG/Steve will take this rout, but I have to admit, it does make sense...
I personally want to see this fleshed out and/or explained. Is Sam really okay with this and does he know Max is hive minded? Is Max hive minded? Whatever the case may be we'll find out in the next installment. Who knows what Steve and TTG might have in store for us!
It was there before, but a mod must have deleted it. It was a post that was talked about how the "person" was sad and it was very vague and didn't mention details. Still, the gits in this thread are BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWing so hard that I almost mistook it for a real post until I saw the signature with links to a store and re-read it to realize it didn't actually mention Max once.
I think you guys are thinking too deeply about this, which was probably caused by the srs bzn feeling of the season. it's sam and max, just go with the flow :I
I think you guys are thinking too deeply about this, which was probably caused by the srs bzn feeling of the season. it's sam and max, just go with the flow
You don't get it, it's not the same since REAL MAX is dead and some cheap knock-off who used to be Max but no longer is Max but Max X is now real Sam's partner.
You don't get it, it's not the same since REAL MAX is dead and some cheap knock-off who used to be Max but no longer is Max but Max X is now real Sam's partner.
No, no, that's my point. I think you guys are looking too much into it. It's just Max.
I personally want to see this fleshed out and/or explained. Is Sam really okay with this and does he know Max is hive minded? Is Max hive minded? Whatever the case may be we'll find out in the next installment. Who knows what Steve and TTG might have in store for us!
The only thing it doesn't explain is why max got into an argument with himself (several times) in Chariots of the Dogs (though I suppose you could argue about his lack of long-term memory affecting the arguments with his past, present, and future selves.... or he might have just been having fun messing with sam's head...)
Part of me thinks this is an insane and retarded idea that holds no water...
Part of me seriously wants to see this, so that this max IS the real max (and it makes all max's expendable then, so loads of fun will likely ensue)
I'm going to point to bad day on the moon. If you guys haven't read the comic, there's a cartoon that tells what happen. Pretty much the same thing happens.
I'm going to point to bad day on the moon. If you guys haven't read the comic, there's a cartoon that tells what happen. Pretty much the same thing happens.
why is it wrong to disagree?
Well in that instance Max's conscience/spirit stuck to Sam's hand and needed a new body.
With Season 3's instance it's like; wtf is going on?!?
Are you disagreeing that it's fun and not hurting anyone, or that it's sad?
If you mean it's not sad, then it's not wrong to disagree. What is wrong is coming in and insulting the people you disagree with for no reason other than that you disagree.
The only thing it doesn't explain is why max got into an argument with himself (several times) in Chariots of the Dogs (though I suppose you could argue about his lack of long-term memory affecting the arguments with his past, present, and future selves.... or he might have just been having fun messing with sam's head...)
Part of me thinks this is an insane and retarded idea that holds no water...
Part of me seriously wants to see this, so that this max IS the real max (and it makes all max's expendable then, so loads of fun will likely ensue)
I agree, but most things are explainable (to an extent) in the Sam and Max world. And some things are just downright unexplainable and ridiculous. In this case the continuity of Sam and Max NEEDS to be explained and/or resolved in some manner..... otherwise the storytelling could get crappy.
Hive mind or not, I guess all we can do is hold tight and continue to theorize. Maybe the writers will get an idea by reading our posts. Maybe Steve already has an idea.
Comments
Future? no it happened in the exact same time during the devils playhouse. The new max is the one from 204 that timetraveled when the spaceship exploded. He and the other sam had their one adventures and during one of them, that sam had apparently turned into the giant monster and max had to kill him. It didnt happened in the future(well it could have due to time travel but yeah) That also means that the max is the same max just this max and this sam have different memories of eatchother from 102(yes 102) onward.
I'm sure Max had plenty of his own character development to which we were not an audience.
Hell, for all we know, the other Sam & Max have had years more adventures than the "Main" ones(we) did.
http://www.youtube.com/user/MJTro12#p/search/1/zG1luAn1VX4
http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=hu0H7zygyAQ&vq=medium#t=272
First of all, the "new" Max isn't really new. He's a paradoxical offshoot of a Max from an alternative time line, in which Sam & Max get their music contract stolen from them & never complete Season 1 in the same way.
Plus, the Max that died was starting to develop some personal growth & maturity. He *HAD* to die, such blasphemy cannot be tolerated.
Kevin
On the other hand, though, I admit that the way in which they brought back Max at the end, kind of ruined the final impression. I felt so sad, because it seemed to me as if one of the protagonists was dead, and they tried to replace him with a minor character. I know that the new Max is also Max: same appearance, same DNA, more or less same personality...But from the point of view of the player he's just a minor character who had a brief role in just one episode of the previous season. We never heard again about him and the other Sam, and it really didn't matter, because they were just anecdotic characters. That's why the ending didn't work to me.
I don't know, it felt as if Max was still dead and no matter how much they tried to make a happy ending, the result was nonetheless depressing.
I hate to be so pessimistic, but I really really would like to see the original Max returning as playable character in the next season (if they make it, which I hope they'll do).
I know! it was like Harry Potter and The Deathly Hallows, Heavy Rain and all 6 Star Wars Movies thrown in a blender!
EDIT:I'm surprised no-one's noticed that the Samulacra Flint put an anti-matter bomb on died too, he was still inside Maxzilla when he exploded.
And the ending is suitable for the characters. In the animated show, there's an episode where Max buys a time traveling watch and he screws up the time-stream so that Sam and Max never met up properly to begin the Freelance Police. Sam is a meditation guru monk with a pet grooming business until his adventure with Max unlocks his proper personality, fixing the time-stream. It's kinda like in Back to the Future part 2 (unique since Telltale is going to do a BttF series) were Biff's control of the city is obliterated once the proper events are aligned.
Speaking of BttF, the ending is almost similar to the end of Back to the Future Part 3, where Marty is sad that he will never see his friend Doc again until *poof* time-traveling steampunk train.
The episode prepares us for the time elevator, if you clicked on the Mariachi Frogs in Max's Inventory. Sam tries to summon the mariachis with an emphasis on 'Birthday' but it doesn't work. It's important to note that the time elevator is basically a TARDIS since it travels through time and space, although instead of spatial warped ship it had a host ship. So I have no problem with the unexpected reunion of Sam and Max. If you didn't like the ending, don't watch Doctor Who. His dimension hopping would drive any linear thinking nut crazy.
If there's anything I'm really sad for, it's Grandpa Stinky's original body that was also on Skunkape's ship before it blew up. I'm going to miss his accent in any possible future season.
Also, did anybody notice the giant cockroach that climbs over the building as the camera pans off Sam and Max to the sunrise? While it's too big and there's no means to relate it to Sal, it did make me think of him. His death at radiation was kinda contradictory, since Sam Jr. handled a dosing just fine.
And another thing to point out that Max always possessed the latent ability to use psychic powers, were as alternate Sam just developed some electromagnetic powers. So Max still has the ability but its doubtful he would ever have the chance to unlock them since most of the toys are destroyed back to the Dark Dimension. (And Troy the Chthonic Destroyer was most likely left in giant max and is destroyed/floating through space. The Narrator/Super Ego will also stay dormant too.)
All in all I was happy at this conclusion. But I'm curious: Does the adventure loving/crime fighting choice really change the topic of dialog when Sam and Max reunite?
EDIT: Found the right forum topic for the multiple endings. I still like the Crime Fighting ending, since that's the only one with the giant cockroach, but both are great.
The only thing i didn't understand is, why Stinky wanted grandypa dead and tried to get Flint to kill him?
And why was she after him at all, when they aren't even related?
I think Max will know about the events of the season even though the other form of him died. That's just how his mind works.
and Stinky wanted Grandpa Stinky dead so she would have the diner. We don't know why she wanted the diner but she was willing to kill for it.
...Oh, I see. It's a spambot. Haha, this one was actually pretty clever, too.
Now I'm sad again.
I was a bit amazed when said time machine ACTUALLY SHOWED UP. And it still seems just as ridiculous. Mind you, that could be because my memory of season 2 is a bit foggy... I think my mind exploded from the paradoxes in 204 already (like the fact that our Sam and Max's past couldn't have happened, or they should have ended up in an alternate future), so I just blocked it all out, and now they've come back again.
I really liked 305 story-wise, but I thought the puzzles were really lacking. I can't remember ever really getting stuck for most of the Devil's Playhouse, actually. I don't know if there's a point in keeping the puzzles so simple (especially in terms of items) when we're three seasons in, often several episodes into a season, and we have a hint system anyway.
Have you seen GuruGuru's Awesome Chart of Paradoxical Explanation? I totally made up that title but it's real I tell you! Someone get that chart!
Somehow this paradox thing is going to play a role in the future season. That's my bet.
Also, Shwoo:mad:, you gave me melancholy just now
Artistically speaking; Excellent choice in editing !
Or you can just make a Sam and Max video with the song. PLEASE:D
I feel it really reflects their friendship and regardless of what happens in their lives they don't care; they'll always be best buddies doing what they do! And it really goes well with the Adventuring ending, all the way up to when they get in the elevator.
I do think it would be amusing to have Sam meet up with the original Max in hell, but I can see it as rather anticlimactic:
Sam: your not mad that I replaced you, Max?
Max: I'm dead, Sam, why should I care?
@ impossible:
I had, I think 3 times in this season I had to look up hints. first was 302's ending because the torch was so small and recessed into the background I didn't know it was clickable. second, the boss battle of 304 (again I missed the miniscule (and short-lived) hotspot of the sheet music on the piano, and finally in the beginning of 305 because I didnt know sam could move while taunting Maxthulu with the corndog. I think it's great the way they're using more logical (relativly speaking) puzzles. I had to all but use a walk through in some of the first season, and had to look up puzzles in S2 atleast 2x per eppisode. I just REALLY REALLY REALLY wish they'd make important clickables more noticeable and easier to click! (or allude to them in hints ala "the samulera seem to be controlled by the music, if I change it...")
Also I admit not catching the Mariachi frogs joke, I thought it was a gag I missed and sam was waiting to hear laughter or for Max (who of course wasn't there) to make the 2nd half of the joke.
Also I doubt this will change the series's timeline any (except perhaps a passing reference in the future) because it really *IS* kinda expected for the S+M universe (though as pointed out many times, why Sam couldnt just go down to hell and retrieve Max after he died isnt quite clear)
On a side note, I'm a little sad Sammunmak died, he was a wonderful stand-in during the first part of 203 and an amusing villain from part 2 onwards
((and sorry I made another thread about this, didnt see this one))
That's the exact same idea I had with astral projection and even a full blown theory! But Chuck, comes along and says Max has a hive mind is aware of all instances of his existence.
I couldn't tell if he was being sarcastic or not.
I hope he was.... I'd rather see something much more interesting!
Just finished watching it, and...it made me tear up again.
*sniff*
If max truely is a hive mind, then the current max _IS_ the same max... which would explain why he sought out our sam, since he knew that he was just blown to bits in this universe...
I rather doubt TTG/Steve will take this rout, but I have to admit, it does make sense...
I personally want to see this fleshed out and/or explained. Is Sam really okay with this and does he know Max is hive minded? Is Max hive minded? Whatever the case may be we'll find out in the next installment. Who knows what Steve and TTG might have in store for us!
What spambot?
wat
he didnt even say anything like that
You don't get it, it's not the same since REAL MAX is dead and some cheap knock-off who used to be Max but no longer is Max but Max X is now real Sam's partner.
he's not saying that everyone should think like him. he's just saying yall are being unreasonably sad. which i agree.
The only thing it doesn't explain is why max got into an argument with himself (several times) in Chariots of the Dogs (though I suppose you could argue about his lack of long-term memory affecting the arguments with his past, present, and future selves.... or he might have just been having fun messing with sam's head...)
Part of me thinks this is an insane and retarded idea that holds no water...
Part of me seriously wants to see this, so that this max IS the real max (and it makes all max's expendable then, so loads of fun will likely ensue)
why is it wrong to disagree?
Well in that instance Max's conscience/spirit stuck to Sam's hand and needed a new body.
With Season 3's instance it's like; wtf is going on?!?
If you mean it's not sad, then it's not wrong to disagree. What is wrong is coming in and insulting the people you disagree with for no reason other than that you disagree.
I agree, but most things are explainable (to an extent) in the Sam and Max world. And some things are just downright unexplainable and ridiculous. In this case the continuity of Sam and Max NEEDS to be explained and/or resolved in some manner..... otherwise the storytelling could get crappy.
Hive mind or not, I guess all we can do is hold tight and continue to theorize. Maybe the writers will get an idea by reading our posts.
IF YOU ARE SAD, YOU ARE STUPID AND WRONG.
One.
Two.
Three.