Heavy Rain inspired gameplay

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Comments

  • edited February 2011
    Woodsyblue wrote: »
    I believe the idea is it will be a standard adventure game but at scenes of danger and tension it will swap over QTE cinematic style cut-scene, though I could easily be mistaken.

    That is what the GameInformer article seems to imply. But what I'm concerned about is whether Telltale makes the "investigating and looking around" parts compelling and complex enough in their own right so that they aren't just busy-work preludes to the QTE danger-and-tension parts, which will be more enjoyable if accompanied by solid gameplay elsewhere.

    They also used the term "downtime" to refer to the no-immediate-danger parts, which I hope is just an unfortunate choice of words and not indicative of Telltale's regard for them in terms of gameplay.

    The article also talks a lot about getting players emotionally invested in the characters which, along with the fact that Telltale's recent games have emphasized cinematics and story-telling over stimulating gameplay, adds to my concerns. The best way to get me invested is to let me steer them through challenging situations. When I think back on memorable game characters, I remember the ones that immersed me in complex gameworlds with formidable obstacles to overcome. For instance, I was much more invested in this little guy, whose name (number?) I never even knew, than I was in the Sam and Max of Season 3 -- because the former presented me with far more demanding puzzles to solve (and nary a cinematic, I might add). I hope Telltale takes that aspect of gaming into consideration when designing JP.
  • edited February 2011
    thom-22 wrote: »
    When I think back on memorable game characters, I remember the ones that immersed me in complex gameworlds with formidable obstacles to overcome. For instance, I was much more invested in this little guy, whose name (number?) I never even knew, than I was in the Sam and Max of Season 3 -- because the former presented me with far more demanding puzzles to solve (and nary a cinematic, I might add). I hope Telltale takes that aspect of gaming into consideration when designing JP.

    This props a very interesting discussion. Did you feel more invested in protagonist of Machinarium because you went through tougher times together and more challenging puzzles or because he is a fundamentally more endearing and sympathetic character?

    Sam & Max are amusing but irreverent characters who don't do little developing throughout their adventures. The robot in Machinarium, on the other hand, is the lovable underdog. The world is very mean to him but he remains upbeat and overcomes his demons. We root very strongly for the robot to succeed in the face of adversity. With Sam & Max we're more detached from their story and instead focus more on the wacky hyperreality of the universe they inhabit.
  • edited February 2011
    thom-22 wrote: »
    But I can't imagine I would enjoy a game where QTE are used as the primary game mechanic, a substitute for direct-control and puzzle-solving mechanics. That would make the game nothing but cutscenes and slightly-more-interactive cutscenes. As a gamer, I would say that's not really a game at all.

    This.
  • edited February 2011
    Woodsyblue wrote: »
    I believe the idea is it will be a standard adventure game but at scenes of danger and tension it will swap over QTE cinematic style cut-scene, though I could easily be mistaken.

    Man, I so hope that this is not the case, otherwise I'd be really dissappointed.

    I agree with thom-22, QTEs might be a good addition to some point, but only them wouldnt deliver the feel of the movie enough, it just isnt immersive enough. I also dont think they can do QTEs like Heavy Rain, expect maybe half of the possibilities and influence the players actions has on the games story and experience
  • edited February 2011
    Woodsyblue wrote: »
    This props a very interesting discussion. Did you feel more invested in protagonist of Machinarium because you went through tougher times together and more challenging puzzles or because he is a fundamentally more endearing and sympathetic character?

    I'm not sure those things are separable. He was more endearing and sympathetic because he was facing tough times, and my connection to him stemmed from helping him through those tough times. I see your point, though, and admit that whatever point I was trying to make was undermined by comparing comedy characters to a tragic one.

    In the article, Telltale's emphasis on players' emotional investment in the characters bothers me. First, I wonder whether Jurassic Park is really the right property to be talking about emotional investment in characters. But more importantly, I get attached to game characters, whether comedic or tragic, when they involve me in a good game -- with rich gameplay and a detailed gameworld as the foundation for the narrative -- and not because the developers made a conscious effort to get me emotionally invested.
  • edited February 2011
    I think they mean that there's going to be more character involvment and not that we're going to get teary eye emotional scenes. In other words, there's a story involved and not just a bunch of people running from dinos like the other JP games.
  • edited February 2011
    I have a couple of questions for those who have played Heavy Rain.

    I most games with QTEs if you fail Wesker does a back flip over your head and snaps your neck (and don't even get me started on Chris' boulder punching :D) but failing just means you start the cutscene again and retry until you get it right. What does Heavy Rain do differently? Does failing a QTE change anything? Are you capable of making choices in the game? Do the choices mean anything?

    I mean people seem to think that JP being inspired by HR just means it'll have some QTE scenes, but that's been done before in hundreds of games. What does Heavy Rain do differently exactly?
  • edited February 2011
    Woodsyblue wrote: »
    I have a couple of questions for those who have played Heavy Rain.

    I most games with QTEs if you fail Wesker does a back flip over your head and snaps your neck (and don't even get me started on Chris' boulder punching :D) but failing just means you start the cutscene again and retry until you get it right. What does Heavy Rain do differently? Does failing a QTE change anything? Are you capable of making choices in the game? Do the choices mean anything?

    I mean people seem to think that JP being inspired by HR just means it'll have some QTE scenes, but that's been done before in hundreds of games. What does Heavy Rain do differently exactly?

    Heavy Rain does two things differently.

    First, QTE's are placed in the game so that they feel part of the experience and not something out of left field. Most people don't like QTEs because it pulls them out of the expirence. You're shooting or punching the entire game and the all of a sudden you're forced to push buttons. It just comes out of no where. But Heavy Rain is mostly all QTE. It's part of the experience of playing so it never feels like it doesn't belong. For example. You hold down the R2 button to walk and the left stick to turn the character. When you reach an object you can interact with you either use the right stick or one of the action buttons to use the object. Like when you open a door you normally movie the right stick to the right and then spin it left as if you're turning the knob. There's also a part where you're in a car and you have to use the right stick and buttons to make sure you don't hit anything.

    Second, if you fail a QTE the game continues... even if the character you're controling dies. There are only a few QTE's that when you fail you just try again. Like if you're opening a door and let go to early the on screen icon turns red and you just simply do it again. In other QTEs though if you fail the action continues but the outcome is less gracefull. There are also times in the game where your character is in danger. If you fail then the character can die. But the story just continues with that character being dead.

    It's really cool how they put it all together.
  • edited February 2011
    Woodsyblue wrote: »
    I mean people seem to think that JP being inspired by HR just means it'll have some QTE scenes,

    They don't. At least I don't. When I saw HR inspired gameplay, I immediately thought QTE's for everything.
  • edited February 2011
    Like when you open a door you normally movie the right stick to the right and then spin it left as if you're turning the knob.
    Sorry, but I have to say it: Ewww.

    Of all the exciting things you can do in video games that you can't do in real life, they make a game in which mundane tasks have to be excruciatingly mimicked with a controller? Reminds me of SimStapler, except that's supposed to be a joke. And it would be ironic in the Jurassic Park universe -- players having to go through convoluted machinations to open a door, but the velociraptors can open them lickety-split. :D

    You might have demonstrated that Heavy Rain's QTEs don't pull you out of the experience, but unfortunately the experience doesn't sound too appealing in the first place.

    I think alexrd is right to be worried about JP being mostly QTE-style gameplay. Because otherwise, if the game just adds QTE to traditional adventure gameplay, it could seem like the QTE are coming out of left field. That's why I said above that I really don't know what to expect. Could be something entirely different, I suppose; Telltale is certainly capable of interesting innovations.

    Maybe after the TT press event later this month we'll start seeing some "hands-on" preview articles about JP and we'll learn more about how they're approaching the gameplay.
  • edited February 2011
    Heavy Rain might not sound appealing at first but trust me when I say it's one of the best games on the PS3. I understand it's different than your usual video game but that doesn't mean one should just automaticly say, "It sucks. Not going to play it."

    I think that most of the people who complain about Heavy Rains gameplay are the ones who didn't even play the game or didn't even play it long enough to get used to the controls. I'm actually glad Jurassic Park is taking the same direction cause at least now more people will try it out. With a big name like "Jurassic Park" more people are going to be willing to try a new style of gameplay.
  • edited February 2011
    I won't read this thread anymore because Heavy Rain is a fun game if anyone bothered trying it instead of judging it.

    If Dragons Lair is a game, Heavy Rain is a game.
  • OMAOMA
    edited February 2011
    I've played Heavy Rain both with the Move controller and the regular DualShock 3 controller, and I've found the Move controls to be more natural and actually easier to use than the regular controller (though maybe that's because my first playthrough was done with the Move). For example, doing the "open door" action with the Move controller as if you were actually opening a door is a lot more natural than spinning the right thumbstick. Also, action scenes feel more "intense" when executing the actions with the Move controller, rather than just pressing buttons.

    I hope that the PS3 version of Jurassic Park has Move support, though I'm afraid that being a multiplatform release they won't bother to make a different Move enabled version for PS3. I wouldn't mind waiting a little more than the PC version if they could implement it. That way you could also have the on-screen mouse pointer, like in the PC version, since the Move controller can also be used as a pointer, similar to the Wii.
  • edited February 2011
    I have been playing HR but I have such a limited amount of time to play it... for obvious reasons I do not play it when my children are around.
  • edited February 2011
    Irishmile wrote: »
    I have been playing HR but I have such a limited amount of time to play it... for obvious reasons I do not play it when my children are around.

    don't want them mispronouncing things with slightly french accents :P
  • edited February 2011
    LOL yeah I noticed that too...
  • edited February 2011
    I've been thinking about this. Will they truly be able to create a suspenseful game when you know that whatever happens, you start the next episode from the same place as everyone else?
  • edited February 2011
    i would say yes. That's like saying you know there's four Alien movies and that the first film isn't suspenseful because of it.
  • edited February 2011
    Or any other video game with an ending that is able to be reached by successful game play.... Just enjoy the ride.
  • edited February 2011
    I understand it's different than your usual video game but that doesn't mean one should just automaticly say, "It sucks. Not going to play it."

    You're poking at strawmen there. I didn't say "it sucks", I wouldn't say that about something I haven't played. Nor did I say I wouldn't play it simply because it's different. I don't think anyone has said anything like that in this thread. If one says they don't care for a certain kind of gameplay and therefore a certain game doesn't appeal to them, that is just not the equivalent of the accusation you made there.

    Most gamers have certain preferences about the kinds of games they play, and they apply those preferences when making choices. The idea that one can't or shouldn't make judgments, based on their own tastes and preferences, about what games to play (or what books to read or what movies to watch, etc.) is nonsensical. Nobody has the time and money to play (/read/watch) absolutely everything and I suspect very few play (/read/watch) things at random. Whether you know it or not, you made a judgment -- without having played it -- when you decided to play Heavy Rain, presumably because it appealed to you in some way. It really shouldn't be surprising -- or reflect on your own decision in any way -- that other people, with different tastes and preferences, come to a different conclusion about whether they want to spend the time and money to play the game.

    Incidentally, I have not railed against Heavy Rain in my posts here (though I did poke a little fun at the description of one scene). I am actually looking forward to Jurassic Park being different than what Telltale usually does and just wanted to muse about how it might be different, how it's going to be inspired by other games, and to express some thoughts on various possibilities. I've enjoyed reading others' thoughts on the matter, as well, whether they're consistent with mine or not.
  • edited February 2011
    Heavy Rain is an insult to every real gamer and should be boykotted IMMEDIATLY!
  • edited February 2011
    I didn't mean for that comment to specifically mean about you and I'm sorry if it came out that way. I understand that gamers have diffrent appeals and preferences when it comes to their games but I'm talking about the ones who just automaticly brand a game as bad because it doesn't fit into the normal game they usually play.

    For example, I dislike the Halo series but I don't think they're bad games. I can see where the appeal is and understand why so many play the game. I'm just not one of them.
  • edited February 2011
    I didn't mean for that comment to specifically mean about you and I'm sorry if it came out that way. I understand that gamers have diffrent appeals and preferences when it comes to their games but I'm talking about the ones who just automaticly brand a game as bad because it doesn't fit into the normal game they usually play.

    For example, I dislike the Halo series but I don't think they're bad games. I can see where the appeal is and understand why so many play the game. I'm just not one of them.

    Heavy Rain is not a game, its too much movie and not game enough. Games that arent game-like enough are not worth to be games and should be movies instead! :cool:
  • VainamoinenVainamoinen Moderator
    edited February 2011
    Sadonicus wrote: »
    Heavy Rain is an insult to every real gamer and should be boykotted IMMEDIATLY!

    "Heavy Rain" was very successful, so we must assume that quite a lot of gamers just do not agree. As much as it pains me, "it's not a game" doesn't seem to be an argument in the world of semi-interactive entertainment.
  • edited February 2011
    Well I have got Heavy Rain on the Ps3. I love the gameplay style and if Telltale are doing something similar, then I'm ecstatic.
    I think it's unfair to say that Heavy Rain is not a game. It appeals to different audiences. I guess if the game doesn't involve shooting things then it is not considered a game for some.
    I found Heavy Rain to be a deeply moving piece of interactive entertainment. You do have control over your character, so I fail to see how it is not considered a game. But hey.. I guess people have different tastes.
  • edited February 2011
    Just got done playing the Back to the Future demo on PS3. If Jurassic Park plays like BTTF, then I'll be very disappointed. :(
  • edited February 2011
    I just finished playing a little bit of Back to the Future and I have to say I like it. They don't really make games like this any more. I know this game was more likely to make one nostalgic for the 80's or for the BTTF films but it actually made me nostalgic for the time when I used to play a PC game called "The Dig". I remember an old friend of mine and I would sit around the computer for hours trying to figure out just what the hell we had to do next. lol

    Although The Dig was a much harder game BTTF has some basic gameplay features that are more or less the same. I like the puzzle part of it. You have to try and figure out what item or what collection of events you have to piece together in order to advance the plot/game. However, and I made this comment before. So far, the sense of urgency in BTTF is non-existant. I could have spent hours upon hours in that old lady's house to found out a certin year if I needed that long.

    In Jurassic Park, you need urgency. You need danger. You need the feeling that you have to survive. I swear, If the Jurassic Park game has a moment where you're in a room with a raptor trying to break in through the glass to get you. There better be a time limit. Cause it will just be silly to have the raptor trying to break through the glass for hours and hours while you try to figure out that you need a ladder to crawl up into the vents.

    But they have already said that Jurassic Park will be diffrent so I'm still giving them the benefit of the doubt. So far I'm enjoying BTTF so I believe they will also make an enjoyable Jurassic Park game.
  • edited February 2011
    Masta23 wrote: »
    I think it's unfair to say that Heavy Rain is not a game. It appeals to different audiences. I guess if the game doesn't involve shooting things then it is not considered a game for some.
    Way to be hypocritical -- dump on those who dump on Heavy Rain by charging them with only being interested in shooting things. I play a wide variety of game types, some with and some without shooting, yet I still don't find Heavy Rain's gameplay (as it has been described to me) appealing.

    Incidentally, I don't deny that "interactive experiences" are a legitimate form of entertainment, that there appears to be a growing market for them, and that gamers who don't care for them will just have to get used to the fact that the gaming industry is moving to satisfy that market.
  • edited February 2011
    I just finished playing a little bit of Back to the Future and I have to say I like it. They don't really make games like this any more.
    Actually, they do. Most of Telltale's (non-poker) games are like this, and there are quite a few indie companies, especially in Europe, that focus on games where you have to "try and figure out what item or what collection of events you have to piece together in order to advance the plot/game", AKA adventure games. But few of the major game publishing conglomerates produce adventure games these days, and die-hard adventure game fans always wish there were more.
    ... made me nostalgic for the time when I used to play a PC game called "The Dig".
    Aahh, The Dig. The turtle puzzle :eek:. The last adventure game Lucasarts made for Mac :(. That was a hard game. Still have my box and CD and re-played it a year or two ago with SCUMM.
    In Jurassic Park, you need urgency. You need danger. You need the feeling that you have to survive. I swear, If the Jurassic Park game has a moment where you're in a room with a raptor trying to break in through the glass to get you. There better be a time limit. Cause it will just be silly to have the raptor trying to break through the glass for hours and hours while you try to figure out that you need a ladder to crawl up into the vents.
    Telltale's comments in the GameInformer article seem to indicate that they understand this. It'll be interesting to see how they handle it. There is a segment of the adventure game fan-base that dislikes game-over events. (Personally, as I like adventure and action games equally, I'm no stranger to dying before time runs out, or a soldier/monster/alien takes me out from behind, or I lose all my marbles, or I fall in burning lava, etc. :D ) Tell me, though, in the hypothetical Jurassic Park game, what do you think should be the consequences when one dies? A gruesome cut-scene and just start at that segment over again? Or something more and/or different?
  • edited February 2011
    thom-22 wrote: »
    Aahh, The Dig. The turtle puzzle :eek:. The last adventure game Lucasarts made for Mac :(. That was a hard game. Still have my box and CD and re-played it a year or two ago with SCUMM.

    Nah... Give me Grim Fandango or SoMI any time.
  • edited February 2011
    You cannot judge Heavy Rain unless you've played it; it's too unique at the moment. The fight scenes are rather exciting and well-done in the long-run. The gameplay is hardly ever boring, the plot keeps you interested, and it's much more of a game then the latest kill people because it's fun simulator.
  • edited February 2011
    When I played Heavy Rain, I felt insulted!

    I felt like the developers where thinking that I'm not worth to create my own story and make my own unique gameplay moments, like I'm not smart enough but they are! Everything I did was completely given by the devs, like I have to follow their great story and have to watch it through their "genious" eyes like I were an idiot! I couldnt even adjust the camera because they knew better and fixed that for me!

    After 10 minutes "playing" that "game" I was so angry I smashed it into the trash were it belongs, I was so upset I didnt even wanted to sell it on ebay to protect others from this "experience"!
  • edited February 2011
    Sadonicus wrote: »
    When I played Heavy Rain, I felt insulted!

    I felt like the developers where thinking that I'm not worth to create my own story and make my own unique gameplay moments, like I'm not smart enough but they are! Everything I did was completely given by the devs, like I have to follow their great story and have to watch it through their "genious" eyes like I were an idiot! I couldnt even adjust the camera because they knew better and fixed that for me!

    After 10 minutes "playing" that "game" I was so angry I smashed it into the trash were it belongs, I was so upset I didnt even wanted to sell it on ebay to protect others from this "experience"!

    trollface.jpg

    Heavy Rain builds, and the last 7 hours after the 2 hour setup are just amazing.
  • edited February 2011
    thom-22 wrote: »
    Way to be hypocritical -- dump on those who dump on Heavy Rain by charging them with only being interested in shooting things. I play a wide variety of game types, some with and some without shooting, yet I still don't find Heavy Rain's gameplay (as it has been described to me) appealing.

    Incidentally, I don't deny that "interactive experiences" are a legitimate form of entertainment, that there appears to be a growing market for them, and that gamers who don't care for them will just have to get used to the fact that the gaming industry is moving to satisfy that market.
    Fair enough, ofc it doesn't appeal to everyone and I wasn't implying that anybody who doesn't like Heavy Rain only likes to shoot things. I was simply saying that there are a majority of people who don't consider Heavy Rain a game because it is different. Heavy Rain is unique, compared to a lot of other games on the Market, especially the vast number of shooters....okay maybe it makes it more of an interactive experience but I don't think that's a bad thing.
  • VainamoinenVainamoinen Moderator
    edited February 2011
    Oh, SHOOT.

    Now they even describe the game as "inspired by Heavy Rain" in the official game description.
  • edited February 2011
    I have not played Heavy Rain as I do not own a console but I know the videos of it looked terrible. I hate quicktime events.

    Sadly this means I will need a demo or thorough gameplay walkthrough before I pre-order Jurassic Park.
  • edited February 2011
    Oh, SHOOT.

    Now they even describe the game as "inspired by Heavy Rain" in the official game description.

    Oh please, let it not be the gameplay...
  • edited February 2011
    Alexrd wrote: »
    Oh please, let it not be the gameplay...

    Signed!

    I think its pretty likely that the Action-Scenes are really nothing but QTE-driven cut-scenes, or at least mostly. God, PLEASE, I wanna be mistaken.
    I mean some parts of the action-sequences being like this, no problem if its made good, but if it will be most of it, I dont think too many fans will be happy...
  • edited February 2011
    Judgement should really be reserved until we get more details.
  • edited February 2011
    http://pc.ign.com/articles/115/1150928p1.html

    Ign talks about Jurassic park and it's gameplay here. Sounds like QTE to me. I know some of you don't like it but I loved Heavy Rain and I think this game is going to be awesome. So Like it or not, it's going to be awesome. lol
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