Haven't looked into Broken Game for ages. Sure about that
No, of course not - after all, a DRM free version was promised to the backers.
However, this latest "part one" crappamajig is supposed to be released on Steam something... ah, forgot the name, the genius device where people pay to be beta testers? Which is ludicrous as this first part is supposed to be "finished and polished" according to TS. But this WILL be on Steam and no DRM free version in sight.
Yeah, calling Broken Age Steam-exclusive is a bit of a stretch.
The final release won't be (it's DRM free), but the pre-release versions will be (the beta and the newly announced Steam Early Access release).
Those who want a DRM-free release will have to wait longer than those who use Steam, but this is not new news. The pre-release has been known to be Steam only since the beginning, since the kickstarter said from day one that the beta would be released on Steam.
Not a fan of that part of Steam to be honest. But a ton of people line up to beta test the games on there and are willing to pay way more than the release price to do so. I wonder why.
I hope there is a DRM free beta for Steam-avoiders. We shall see.
I know I'll get my game when it's finished and from trying their prototypes in the past I think I can honestly say that I have no interest in getting in early. But every backer can if they want to.
No, the ehhhh was aimed at your comment. Had to spend a while collecting my thoughts, apparently.
-Steam Early Access is effectively them selling a beta version of the game, as another form of pre-order. The fact that they intend to make this beta as much of a polished first act as they can doesn't make the game "episodic." It's still a preview version of a cohesive, not-episodic whole game.
-God forbid they improve the game using money they make from selling things. Kickstarter is about starting things that they couldn't have started otherwise. It's in the name.
-Unless they've said something new about the final game being Steam-exclusive, I'll assume that anybody who pledged $15 or more will still get a DRM-free copy when the game is done.
Just as a broad contrast, I got my backer Ouya unit recently. It sucks balls. I hear the retail units are better, but as a backer I'm stuck with the initial one they sent me, because part of the deal was that I'd get mine first. If if was an option to wait longer and get the better version, I'd be way happier. But I'm not going to criticize them for using more money that they got post-Kickstarter to improve their product. I'm not even going to complain about how the unit I got sucks balls, really. It's just a part of how Kickstarter works. The idea was good, so I supported it, and I got what I was promised.
I think Double Fine is doing better than that, by doing everything they can to give the backers both the early version and the final version. And it's great that they're giving this bigger game to backers who pledged $15 initially, when they could have just cut it off and called Part 1 the finished game.
........aaaaand in the time I spent writing that I'm sure 75 people have ninja'd all my points
Honest question: If you are a backer and a "steam-avoider," and Steam was the only way to get the beta, you'd still avoid it? Even though it's effectively free to you? You're not just avoiding buying things on Steam (which I can understand, given the impermanence of ownership), but avoiding installing it in general, despite the inherent impermanence of a beta version?
Let's make it a hypothetical kickstarter if the Double Fine one has too much other baggage to work as the example here. I'm just curious.
We're arguing semantics here, but if there is no "Part 2," and instead the final release is just "Broken Age" which includes all the content of Part 1 (but improved) and then another big chunk of game added to that, I just don't think that "Episodic" is a word that I'd use for that. If they end up selling it as "Part 1" and "Part 2" then I'll be more inclined to agree with you, but it doesn't seem like that's what they're going for.
It's a matter of interpretation, maybe. But to see this as an episodic game, that's certainly a valid interpretation. They're selling half the game. With an exemplary cliffhanger in the middle. Double Fine will rather tape their mouths than use the word "beta". Whether it is completed with part 2 or with an 'entire game' ("can I import my saves from part one?"/"do I have to download the entire part 1 again with the full game?") is not really relevant.
Honest question: If you are a backer and a "steam-avoider," and Steam was the only way to get the beta, you'd still avoid it? Even though it's effectively free to you? You're not just avoiding buying things on Steam (which I can understand, given the impermanence of ownership), but avoiding installing it in general, despite the inherent impermanence of a beta version?
Steam's client doesn't touch my computer, correct.
(I'd have to say a lot about other assumptions of yours about my stances concerning the topic, but this REALLY isn't the place. Let's focus on DF and TS for now.)
It's a matter of interpretation, maybe. But to see this as an episodic game, that's certainly a valid interpretation. They're selling half the game. With an exemplary cliffhanger in the middle. Double Fine will rather tape their mouths than use the word "beta". Whether it is completed with part 2 or with an 'entire game' ("can I import my saves from part one?"/"do I have to download the entire part 1 again with the full game?") is not really relevant.
Sure it's valid, but completely irrelevant once the second part comes out. They're not aiming for self contained episodes like S&M:TDP or ToMI, so it will only be episodic in the way LeChuck's Revenge is a season with four episodes.
They're not selling half the game. A purchase through Steam Early Access gets you the entire game (given that they're able to finish rest (which I personally have no doubt they'll be able to)), even if you'll have to wait for the second part. And they have been very clear on that the first available act will be fully polished. The backer beta will come prior to this.
After reading that Leisure Suit Larry managed to sell 250K copies in it's first week after release I feel very confident that Broken Age will do well after release. I have fond memories of LSL from when I was young, but it is after all an extremely short game, a remake of a game that is already available and doesn't have the same following as Tim Schafer's classics.
I, uhhh, respect your opinion. For me, buying a game with two parts makes it episodic for me. This works pretty much the same way you buy a full game in the Telltale Store when only one episode is yet out. But that's a rather uninteresting part to disagree on, I'd say. There's not much we really need to reach a consensus about though. Just one thing about the development of Broken Age that's pretty obvious.
My only other thought on the issue is that, from the final product perspective... If I buy any past Telltale game, even in a retail package, it's immediately incredibly obvious that it is episodic in design. But Broken Age, to a non-backer (or, say, somebody who doesn't use Steam), it'll probably be completely self-contained with no sign of an episodic structure, beyond the act-based structure that's part of its original design. I don't think it'll run credits and return you to the menu between episodes like Telltale games do. But I mean, whatever.
I don't think they're throwing money out the window. They're throwing money at the game. Maybe they're throwing too much money at the game, having a full-time staff member programming pretty light animations for instance, but I'd ultimately rather have the pretty light animations than not. There's no downside to me except the longer wait.
If I bought a Telltale game all at once, and played it from beginning to end without any indication of episodic start points or end points, I would call that "not episodic"
Especially if the only parts were "the preview part" and "the whole thing"
- - -
Then again, like, Jurassic Park was designed episodically but not released episodically, so we might have to accept that there are two distinct concepts at play here.
I think you're overcomplicating things with semantics.
Double Fine is releasing a single game product in parts, and getting away from the gross mismanagement of funds that has lead Double Fine to a place where(after receiving 8 times their funding goal) they require more money from other sources in order to finish the game as designed.
As such, Double Fine, THE big first example of Kickstarter campaign success in Video Game category, and thus the studio most under the spotlight for determining what people will eventually come to think of crowdfunding for video games as a concept, has ultimately fallen short of the Kickstarter ideal of being able to pitch a concept and fund it to completion through crowdfunding.
What Double Fine has done here sucks, and frankly I find it kind of insulting that more people don't find it at least deeply disturbing if not outright disgusting.
I, uhhh, respect your opinion. For me, buying a game with two parts makes it episodic for me. This works pretty much the same way you buy a full game in the Telltale Store when only one episode is yet out. But that's a rather uninteresting part to disagree on, I'd say. There's not much we really need to reach a consensus about though. Just one thing about the development of Broken Age that's pretty obvious.
I agree that it's not very interesting whether or not to call Broken Age episodic. My example LeChuck's Revenge could probably well have been released episodically without it adding to or detracting from the experience after all, so we'll just have to wait how it works out for Broken Age once we hopefully have the complete product.
I've seen you use that gif before, but I have to agree with LuigiHann. The money spent so far has largely gone towards salaries, hiring Peter McConnell for scoring and casting professional voice actors. They could have spent less on either, but not without compromising Tim Schafer's vision for the game.
I think you're overcomplicating things with semantics.
Double Fine is releasing a single game product in parts, and getting away from the gross mismanagement of funds that has lead Double Fine to a place where(after receiving 8 times their funding goal) they require more money from other sources in order to finish the game as designed.
As such, Double Fine, THE big first example of Kickstarter campaign success in Video Game category, and thus the studio most under the spotlight for determining what people will eventually come to think of crowdfunding for video games as a concept, has ultimately fallen short of the Kickstarter ideal of being able to pitch a concept and fund it to completion through crowdfunding.
What Double Fine has done here sucks, and frankly I find it kind of insulting that more people don't find it at least deeply disturbing if not outright disgusting.
That ultimately depends on your angle on it. Double Fine could have taken the easy way out by creating the game they originally had in mind and scoping for $300K minus rewards. Even if the game had cost them twice as much as they budgeted for, they would have been able to make it with their Kickstarter money with a large amount left. The end result would probably have been good enough, but I'm doubtful that it would have been much more memorable than any of the other handful of adventure games that come out every year.
Kickstarter isn't just about full financing though. It's about getting enough funds to launch and create buzz around a project. In that regard I'd say Broken Age have been a massive success regardless and it has opened up Kickstarter as a viable source for funding for a veritable avalanche of other game creators. Some of them are struggling, but the fact that Double Fine has been so open about the "hidden" costs (physical rewards, developing tech, etc.) have made it easier to budget a Kickstarter campaign for future developers.
At the end of the day Double Fine has done what their backers want and expect of them. If you take a look on the Double Fine forums you won't find the massive outcry of angry backers that the media would have you believe. There's a big majority that are very happy that Double Fine is using the means available to them to try to create a modern classic.
The money spent so far has largely gone towards salaries, hiring Peter McConnell for scoring and casting professional voice actors. They could have spent less on either, but not without compromising Tim Schafer's vision for the game.
Of course it's the running costs (salaries) which burn up the money at the time. That's what makes the extended development period (now 350% of the first estimate) the problem. I would of course agree that they've thrown all the money at the game, but would insist that they missed a lot.
A single person is doing the score; last I heard/listened, by all-digital means without real instruments/performers. And McConnell is hardly the 'expensive' route to go here; he's worked for much, much less expensive Double Fine projects and delivered very solid compositions every time.
Voice actors are not a running cost. It usually requires a concentrated financial and scheduling effort at the very end of the development cycle (unless you're going episodic and require the same actors for each episode, which certainly is another way to burn your money :rolleyes: ).
Also, we'll have to distinguish between what burned the backer money in the past and what will burn money in the future. That concerns voice actors especially. Is it correct to assume that indeed no voice acting has yet taken place and they are still using stand in voices? Because in that case, the money of the backers was thrown at anything BUT voice actors. Those are 'teh expensive' costs still to come. The question remains where those first two to three million $ went. It is not a question that could be answered satisfactorily.
At the end of the day Double Fine has done what their backers want and expect of them. If you take a look on the Double Fine forums you won't find the massive outcry of angry backers that the media would have you believe. There's a big majority that are very happy that Double Fine is using the means available to them to try to create a modern classic.
If backers miss the opportunity to voice valid criticism in the forums, it reflects a lot, but not necessarily their satisfaction with what is going on. I'm seeing some deeply sarcastic voices over there, who understand the situation Double Fine has maneuvered themselves into. Then again, I'm also seeing the desperate optimists who try to paint any kind of criticism an act of treachery and insult those concerned (I'm resisting the urge to post some shocking examples right now). But what you definitely have there is despair and aggression. The first thread I just clicked on was someone asking everyone with a 15$ pledge to 'up their cheap ass pledge'.
The "Kickstarter spirit"? Find it elsewhere, but not in the Double Fine forums.
The critics over there are not concerned 'for their money', they show concern for the dream of a new traditional adventure game and the chances of Double Fine's survival in an industry that demands several times their efficiency.
/edit: they're saying that the first half of the game is indeed Steam exclusive. So backers waiting for the DRM free version instead of letting part of their pledge money flow to Valve will, regardless of their pledge level, not receive any kind of 'early access' to the game and can expect to be spoiled in those forums in the at least six months between the episodes. Fine work, Double Fine. Excellent. At least they're open about it. People are really getting official answers quickly in there, regardless of a potential marketing disaster.
The question remains where those first two to three million $ went. It is not a question that could be answered satisfactorily.
It can be answered satisfactorily very easily.
They made $3 million through the kickstarter. The kickstarter fee, the documentary, and the physical rewards took 1 million off the budget, leaving them with $2 million.
For reference, Costume Quest cost $3 million to make. That had no voice acting, so that doesn't even bring that into question.
In this case, there was additional cost since they didn't just reuse the Buddha engine that they built for Brutal Legend (which they've used in just about every game since, save for games like Middle Manager of Justice which use the engine built for Broken Age).
You have to remember that the United States is a very different environment than Europe. The US doesn't have public healthcare, so Double Fine has to front the bill for their employees (it's a perk provided by some companies in the US at the moment, but it will be required by 2015). Double Fine states that they provide healthcare (including vision and dental). The privatized healthcare the United States has is pretty expensive, even for companies (which are lower than individuals, since they get their healthcare plans in bulk; but Double Fine is a small company, so their cost would still be more than a larger company). Additionally, vision and dental are add-ons to the standard plans, so that's an additional cost for each employee.
So, salary + health care benefits + health care add-ons. Plus the cost of hiring Peter McConnell. Then you have overtime wages you have to pay for employees if they work more than eight hours (time and a half for every hour worked over 8 hours. It's required by United States labor laws for non-salaried employees, Tim stated before that he doesn't believe in "sweatshop conditions", so he likely pays time and a half for salaried employees too). Not to mention, a portion of the operating costs, which are recovered from game projects (gas + electric, water, and rent or taxes, plus possible garbage collection fees, sewer taxes, etc).
When you add all that up, it's not surprising at all that it went over budget.
In my opinion, Double Fine should be commended for providing their employees with such benefits. Most places in the United States don't do that (as I said, they're not required to do it until 2015), and when they do give their employees health benefits (usually not even with vision and dental), they get their money back by abusing the labor law loophole by making them salaried and making them work overtime without paying them extra for it (which is what the media refers to as "sweatshop conditions", like in the EA Spouse situation).
At the time, our budgets for [games like] Stacking and Costume Quest were like $2 million
So Schafer should have known exactly how to operate within the given budget. He didn't.
I'm well aware of the employment situation in the US. And it is absolutely true that it's quite a bit more expensive to make a game over there than it is in Europe. But not by a factor of ten, and certainly not by a factor of twenty.
I'm well aware of the employment situation in the US. And it is absolutely true that it's quite a bit more expensive to make a game over there than it is in Europe. But not by a factor of ten, and certainly not by a factor of twenty.
It is when you use unpaid interns to do the work of salaried employees (like is the case with Daedalic).
Of course they can do it for 10 to 20 times cheaper when they have a whole unpaid labor force to do the work for them. It's a completely different situation, and shouldn't even be brought into comparison with Double Fine.
Nonono. I'm first in line to criticize what Daedalic is doing, and I don't actually know how many unpaid interns they are 'employing' at a time, but they hardly constitute a "whole unpaid labor force".
It's quite a bit harder to establish those sweatshop conditions in a country in which 'socialist' is not per se an insult. Not that Amazon didn't try.
For those of you who cared at all, American McGee has cancelled his OZombie project.
As much as I was interested to see what he could do with the world of Oz, the Kickstarter was a shambles and there's no point in trying to defend it. If he'd just focused on Oz, then maybe this might have worked, but he was also using it as a way of trying to get a third Alice game going - and THEN he was also using it to try and get the film rights to Alice (which he'll be launching a new Kickstarter for).
Like I say - a right mess.
What's most irritating is that, despite constant updates from the man, they never showed off anything but a few (admittedly pretty) pieces of concept art. Dude talked a good talk, but you need more than that these days.
EDIT: On a more positive note, Kick-Heart is out. Check your backer updates.
$25 seems a little high for an entry-level tier, in my opinion, but I have to admit that the possibility of stories set in McGee's Alice universe that aren't games has me intrigued enough to go for it.
We'll see if he gets enough interest in the three weeks the project's live.
EDIT: Already asked about Blu-Ray. Waiting for a response.
EDIT 2: No Blu-Ray - it's too expensive, apparently. Bah.
You'll get one, I'm sure of it. They will give them to everyone in the whole wide world so no one would ever download the DRM free version in ten days.
The fine print.
(1) Planned to be an episodic series.
(2) Planned to incorporate a lot of action sequences.
(3) Only tiers 30$ and up will give you the game.
(4) Whether that means all episodes is not specified.
(5) With 30 tier levels, they obviously try to set a record.
(6) DRM free is not yet announced.
(7) A cooperation with Steam already seems to be set in stone (indie WTF!?!)
Hmmm. Way too exploitative of the Sierra brand name for the first half of the pitch video. Not enough about the game.
What other games has this team done by themselves? On their Kickstarter description page they have a detailed history of the company. What company? Sierra Online, of course! But Sierra (which doesn't even exist anymore) isn't making this game.
This is all I could find on the page about an in-place team:
Jason is currently the founder and studio director of Tiny Castle Studios, a new Unity3D focused game development studio located in Glendale, CA. Jason and his team were instrumental in creating this Kickstarter campaign.
Britney Brimhall of Himalaya/AGDI (team with proven track record) posted the following several months during their Kickstarter for Mage's Initiation. I guess things didn't work out with them.
Thanks guys for donating and pushing us past the $40,000 mark. SO EXCITING! I appreciate you pushing us into the next tier, BigD! And YES—this is my DREAM, to work with Jim Walls on a Police Quest type adventure game, and I think it would be the perfect collaboration. It feels as if all my experiences in life, and my team’s experiences, have sort of led up to this exact point, making us the perfect fit to work with Jim on this game. We’ve been discussing this, and he mentioned us in his last interview.
It’s funny, because I want to finish up “Mage’s”, because I’m so excited to get started on a Police adventure game. Yet at the same time, am so excited about “Mage’s”, because it’s turning out so well, and is the type of game I’ve been wanting to play for Ages (being a huge fan of Quest for Glory style games)! Two amazing games. I have to remind myself to take it step for step, but it feels like Christmas being able to work on two such fulfilling projects.
As we finish “Mage’s”, and I continue patrolling, I am certainly getting more and more ideas for an upcoming Police Adventure:) Every day on the street is really like a lifetime lived. A single day would be enough fodder for a grand adventure game!
The fine print.
(1) Planned to be an episodic series.
(2) Planned to incorporate a lot of action sequences.
(3) Only tiers 30$ and up will give you the game.
(4) Whether that means all episodes is not specified.
(5) With 30 tier levels, they obviously try to set a record.
(6) DRM free is not yet announced
.
(7) A cooperation with Steam already seems to be set in stone (indie WTF!?!)
Here's what Robert Lindsley (never heard of him, but I'm sure he's terrific) wrote using the Kickstarter account named "Jim Walls" which looks kind of funny to me in the comments:
Creator Jim Walls
about 1 hour ago
Hi everybody!
First off, thanks for backing. We really appreciate it! We couldn't make this game without you.
Answers to a couple of your questions:
To be absolutely clear, the game is not episodic. Your backing gets you the entire game. Precinct is intended to be a 5-game series spanning multiple years. I have changed the text accordingly.
We haven't announced a DRM strategy yet, but please stay tuned. We'll have a lot of great announcements during our campaign.
A physical boxed copy has not been announced yet. I'm looking forward to hearing backer feedback on this piece.
Alice: Otherworlds has reached a fifth of of its $200,000 within one day.
I seem to recall that that's a good thing, right? I hope so. The project itself is a lot more interesting than OZombie (or whatever they decide to call it now they've realized that's not a very good name) and the additional tiers they've added in the past 12 hours are certainly more grabbing.
Oh, and they've conceded to Blu-Ray. Huzzah! Doesn't appear you can have DVD AND Blu-Ray though. *shrug*
It does seem a lot more interesting than I initially expected. I really enjoyed the dark take on the story that I got from the original game's opening cinematic and the little booklet that came with the game, but didn't get through much of the game itself. The direction this is taking seems pretty cool, going psychonautically into the minds of familiar people, rather than just further twisting and darkening of the Alice story
Comments
Haven't looked into Broken Game for ages. Sure about that
No, of course not - after all, a DRM free version was promised to the backers.
However, this latest "part one" crappamajig is supposed to be released on Steam something... ah, forgot the name, the genius device where people pay to be beta testers? Which is ludicrous as this first part is supposed to be "finished and polished" according to TS. But this WILL be on Steam and no DRM free version in sight.
/edit: Early Access.
The final release won't be (it's DRM free), but the pre-release versions will be (the beta and the newly announced Steam Early Access release).
Those who want a DRM-free release will have to wait longer than those who use Steam, but this is not new news. The pre-release has been known to be Steam only since the beginning, since the kickstarter said from day one that the beta would be released on Steam.
Not a fan of that part of Steam to be honest. But a ton of people line up to beta test the games on there and are willing to pay way more than the release price to do so. I wonder why.
I hope there is a DRM free beta for Steam-avoiders. We shall see.
I know I'll get my game when it's finished and from trying their prototypes in the past I think I can honestly say that I have no interest in getting in early. But every backer can if they want to.
No, the ehhhh was aimed at your comment. Had to spend a while collecting my thoughts, apparently.
-Steam Early Access is effectively them selling a beta version of the game, as another form of pre-order. The fact that they intend to make this beta as much of a polished first act as they can doesn't make the game "episodic." It's still a preview version of a cohesive, not-episodic whole game.
-God forbid they improve the game using money they make from selling things. Kickstarter is about starting things that they couldn't have started otherwise. It's in the name.
-Unless they've said something new about the final game being Steam-exclusive, I'll assume that anybody who pledged $15 or more will still get a DRM-free copy when the game is done.
Just as a broad contrast, I got my backer Ouya unit recently. It sucks balls. I hear the retail units are better, but as a backer I'm stuck with the initial one they sent me, because part of the deal was that I'd get mine first. If if was an option to wait longer and get the better version, I'd be way happier. But I'm not going to criticize them for using more money that they got post-Kickstarter to improve their product. I'm not even going to complain about how the unit I got sucks balls, really. It's just a part of how Kickstarter works. The idea was good, so I supported it, and I got what I was promised.
I think Double Fine is doing better than that, by doing everything they can to give the backers both the early version and the final version. And it's great that they're giving this bigger game to backers who pledged $15 initially, when they could have just cut it off and called Part 1 the finished game.
........aaaaand in the time I spent writing that I'm sure 75 people have ninja'd all my points
Let's make it a hypothetical kickstarter if the Double Fine one has too much other baggage to work as the example here. I'm just curious.
It is now a two-parter. That is, by all means, an episodic concept.
Steam's client doesn't touch my computer, correct.
(I'd have to say a lot about other assumptions of yours about my stances concerning the topic, but this REALLY isn't the place. Let's focus on DF and TS for now.)
Sure it's valid, but completely irrelevant once the second part comes out. They're not aiming for self contained episodes like S&M:TDP or ToMI, so it will only be episodic in the way LeChuck's Revenge is a season with four episodes.
They're not selling half the game. A purchase through Steam Early Access gets you the entire game (given that they're able to finish rest (which I personally have no doubt they'll be able to)), even if you'll have to wait for the second part. And they have been very clear on that the first available act will be fully polished. The backer beta will come prior to this.
After reading that Leisure Suit Larry managed to sell 250K copies in it's first week after release I feel very confident that Broken Age will do well after release. I have fond memories of LSL from when I was young, but it is after all an extremely short game, a remake of a game that is already available and doesn't have the same following as Tim Schafer's classics.
I don't think they're throwing money out the window. They're throwing money at the game. Maybe they're throwing too much money at the game, having a full-time staff member programming pretty light animations for instance, but I'd ultimately rather have the pretty light animations than not. There's no downside to me except the longer wait.
Especially if the only parts were "the preview part" and "the whole thing"
- - -
Then again, like, Jurassic Park was designed episodically but not released episodically, so we might have to accept that there are two distinct concepts at play here.
Double Fine is releasing a single game product in parts, and getting away from the gross mismanagement of funds that has lead Double Fine to a place where(after receiving 8 times their funding goal) they require more money from other sources in order to finish the game as designed.
As such, Double Fine, THE big first example of Kickstarter campaign success in Video Game category, and thus the studio most under the spotlight for determining what people will eventually come to think of crowdfunding for video games as a concept, has ultimately fallen short of the Kickstarter ideal of being able to pitch a concept and fund it to completion through crowdfunding.
What Double Fine has done here sucks, and frankly I find it kind of insulting that more people don't find it at least deeply disturbing if not outright disgusting.
I agree that it's not very interesting whether or not to call Broken Age episodic. My example LeChuck's Revenge could probably well have been released episodically without it adding to or detracting from the experience after all, so we'll just have to wait how it works out for Broken Age once we hopefully have the complete product.
I've seen you use that gif before, but I have to agree with LuigiHann. The money spent so far has largely gone towards salaries, hiring Peter McConnell for scoring and casting professional voice actors. They could have spent less on either, but not without compromising Tim Schafer's vision for the game.
That ultimately depends on your angle on it. Double Fine could have taken the easy way out by creating the game they originally had in mind and scoping for $300K minus rewards. Even if the game had cost them twice as much as they budgeted for, they would have been able to make it with their Kickstarter money with a large amount left. The end result would probably have been good enough, but I'm doubtful that it would have been much more memorable than any of the other handful of adventure games that come out every year.
Kickstarter isn't just about full financing though. It's about getting enough funds to launch and create buzz around a project. In that regard I'd say Broken Age have been a massive success regardless and it has opened up Kickstarter as a viable source for funding for a veritable avalanche of other game creators. Some of them are struggling, but the fact that Double Fine has been so open about the "hidden" costs (physical rewards, developing tech, etc.) have made it easier to budget a Kickstarter campaign for future developers.
At the end of the day Double Fine has done what their backers want and expect of them. If you take a look on the Double Fine forums you won't find the massive outcry of angry backers that the media would have you believe. There's a big majority that are very happy that Double Fine is using the means available to them to try to create a modern classic.
Of course it's the running costs (salaries) which burn up the money at the time. That's what makes the extended development period (now 350% of the first estimate) the problem. I would of course agree that they've thrown all the money at the game, but would insist that they missed a lot.
A single person is doing the score; last I heard/listened, by all-digital means without real instruments/performers. And McConnell is hardly the 'expensive' route to go here; he's worked for much, much less expensive Double Fine projects and delivered very solid compositions every time.
Voice actors are not a running cost. It usually requires a concentrated financial and scheduling effort at the very end of the development cycle (unless you're going episodic and require the same actors for each episode, which certainly is another way to burn your money :rolleyes: ).
Also, we'll have to distinguish between what burned the backer money in the past and what will burn money in the future. That concerns voice actors especially. Is it correct to assume that indeed no voice acting has yet taken place and they are still using stand in voices? Because in that case, the money of the backers was thrown at anything BUT voice actors. Those are 'teh expensive' costs still to come. The question remains where those first two to three million $ went. It is not a question that could be answered satisfactorily.
If backers miss the opportunity to voice valid criticism in the forums, it reflects a lot, but not necessarily their satisfaction with what is going on. I'm seeing some deeply sarcastic voices over there, who understand the situation Double Fine has maneuvered themselves into. Then again, I'm also seeing the desperate optimists who try to paint any kind of criticism an act of treachery and insult those concerned (I'm resisting the urge to post some shocking examples right now). But what you definitely have there is despair and aggression. The first thread I just clicked on was someone asking everyone with a 15$ pledge to 'up their cheap ass pledge'.
The "Kickstarter spirit"? Find it elsewhere, but not in the Double Fine forums.
The critics over there are not concerned 'for their money', they show concern for the dream of a new traditional adventure game and the chances of Double Fine's survival in an industry that demands several times their efficiency.
/edit: they're saying that the first half of the game is indeed Steam exclusive. So backers waiting for the DRM free version instead of letting part of their pledge money flow to Valve will, regardless of their pledge level, not receive any kind of 'early access' to the game and can expect to be spoiled in those forums in the at least six months between the episodes. Fine work, Double Fine. Excellent. At least they're open about it. People are really getting official answers quickly in there, regardless of a potential marketing disaster.
They made $3 million through the kickstarter. The kickstarter fee, the documentary, and the physical rewards took 1 million off the budget, leaving them with $2 million.
For reference, Costume Quest cost $3 million to make. That had no voice acting, so that doesn't even bring that into question.
In this case, there was additional cost since they didn't just reuse the Buddha engine that they built for Brutal Legend (which they've used in just about every game since, save for games like Middle Manager of Justice which use the engine built for Broken Age).
You have to remember that the United States is a very different environment than Europe. The US doesn't have public healthcare, so Double Fine has to front the bill for their employees (it's a perk provided by some companies in the US at the moment, but it will be required by 2015). Double Fine states that they provide healthcare (including vision and dental). The privatized healthcare the United States has is pretty expensive, even for companies (which are lower than individuals, since they get their healthcare plans in bulk; but Double Fine is a small company, so their cost would still be more than a larger company). Additionally, vision and dental are add-ons to the standard plans, so that's an additional cost for each employee.
So, salary + health care benefits + health care add-ons. Plus the cost of hiring Peter McConnell. Then you have overtime wages you have to pay for employees if they work more than eight hours (time and a half for every hour worked over 8 hours. It's required by United States labor laws for non-salaried employees, Tim stated before that he doesn't believe in "sweatshop conditions", so he likely pays time and a half for salaried employees too). Not to mention, a portion of the operating costs, which are recovered from game projects (gas + electric, water, and rent or taxes, plus possible garbage collection fees, sewer taxes, etc).
When you add all that up, it's not surprising at all that it went over budget.
In my opinion, Double Fine should be commended for providing their employees with such benefits. Most places in the United States don't do that (as I said, they're not required to do it until 2015), and when they do give their employees health benefits (usually not even with vision and dental), they get their money back by abusing the labor law loophole by making them salaried and making them work overtime without paying them extra for it (which is what the media refers to as "sweatshop conditions", like in the EA Spouse situation).
So Schafer should have known exactly how to operate within the given budget. He didn't.
I'm well aware of the employment situation in the US. And it is absolutely true that it's quite a bit more expensive to make a game over there than it is in Europe. But not by a factor of ten, and certainly not by a factor of twenty.
Of course they can do it for 10 to 20 times cheaper when they have a whole unpaid labor force to do the work for them. It's a completely different situation, and shouldn't even be brought into comparison with Double Fine.
It's quite a bit harder to establish those sweatshop conditions in a country in which 'socialist' is not per se an insult. Not that Amazon didn't try.
As much as I was interested to see what he could do with the world of Oz, the Kickstarter was a shambles and there's no point in trying to defend it. If he'd just focused on Oz, then maybe this might have worked, but he was also using it as a way of trying to get a third Alice game going - and THEN he was also using it to try and get the film rights to Alice (which he'll be launching a new Kickstarter for).
Like I say - a right mess.
What's most irritating is that, despite constant updates from the man, they never showed off anything but a few (admittedly pretty) pieces of concept art. Dude talked a good talk, but you need more than that these days.
EDIT: On a more positive note, Kick-Heart is out. Check your backer updates.
OH MY GOD AND ALSO REX IN LIKE SEVEN HOURS HOLY SHIT.
TWO animations that I backed in ONE DAY THIS IS AWESOME!!!
$25 seems a little high for an entry-level tier, in my opinion, but I have to admit that the possibility of stories set in McGee's Alice universe that aren't games has me intrigued enough to go for it.
We'll see if he gets enough interest in the three weeks the project's live.
EDIT: Already asked about Blu-Ray. Waiting for a response.
EDIT 2: No Blu-Ray - it's too expensive, apparently. Bah.
If you backed Shadowrun Returns, keep an eye on your email inbox - they've started sending out Steam codes.
...I haven't received mine yet. :P
All right, all right, have it your way.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/precinctgame/precinct
The fine print.
(1) Planned to be an episodic series.
(2) Planned to incorporate a lot of action sequences.
(3) Only tiers 30$ and up will give you the game.
(4) Whether that means all episodes is not specified.
(5) With 30 tier levels, they obviously try to set a record.
(6) DRM free is not yet announced.
(7) A cooperation with Steam already seems to be set in stone (indie WTF!?!)
Hmmm. Way too exploitative of the Sierra brand name for the first half of the pitch video. Not enough about the game.
What other games has this team done by themselves? On their Kickstarter description page they have a detailed history of the company. What company? Sierra Online, of course! But Sierra (which doesn't even exist anymore) isn't making this game.
This is all I could find on the page about an in-place team:
Britney Brimhall of Himalaya/AGDI (team with proven track record) posted the following several months during their Kickstarter for Mage's Initiation. I guess things didn't work out with them.
Here's what Robert Lindsley (never heard of him, but I'm sure he's terrific) wrote using the Kickstarter account named "Jim Walls" which looks kind of funny to me in the comments:
While I didn't back Hero-U, Spaceventure is actually going to be releasing a demo later today, if their last update was correct.
In other Kickstarted adventure games that no one's really heard anything from recently, Broken Sword V is supposed to release around late September.
I seem to recall that that's a good thing, right? I hope so. The project itself is a lot more interesting than OZombie (or whatever they decide to call it now they've realized that's not a very good name) and the additional tiers they've added in the past 12 hours are certainly more grabbing.
Oh, and they've conceded to Blu-Ray. Huzzah! Doesn't appear you can have DVD AND Blu-Ray though. *shrug*
Anyone else curious about this one?