To me, this game is an interactive movie. I play it not to try to beat it, but because I enjoy the story. Sure it's linear, but so are movies, and books. It's very cool that the things I say or the choices I make will affect the story. But, I don't expect to rewrite the story.
Play the game for the story. It is a very emotional, heart-breaking experience. If you're playing to win, you've picked the wrong game.
I know, I should know better. That book has been pretty awesome so far, btw. Almost halfway through WWZ.
isnt it? Im just about halfway; some of those stories are freakin awesome
Like the Battle of Yonkers; and Redeker's story; and televised celebrity fort?
Much more realistic battles and just reading about the breakdown of power and communication and the building chaos...ya really good stuff
@masterofaeons: search Sandmole (or sandstorm, i don't remember lol) posts, you will se what i mean @dankirk yep but it's not the game who as be advertissed and talke in playing dead. @Marleysativa: i don't speak about poll because only a handful of players came here, on steam every pc player is counted. For "it's TWD world" argument, i was just giving example...
For the succes page, it's important to take note that TWD succes are the story, more you advance in it, more the succes are unblocked. You have nothing to do to have beside play the game. Now, 72% of the owner of the game don't finish the chapter 3. We are only at the middle of the game.
A game is finish by 40% on average. TWD is only at 28% in the middle of the game. Wooo great succes ! How it's promising for the second season !!!!
@Xarne Its on the internet dude, so it must be true!
No just one page before... Our choice change what the other characters think of Lee... But no how the act and the result ! The chapter 3 show us that. So, by now, no choice matter and we are all at the same point.
I understand where you come from - I myself am a gamer whose favorite games are RPG's where my choices affect the story.
Without wanting to spoil the Mass Effect series, I spent years looking forward to and theorizing what all the outcomes of my decisions in ME1 and ME2 would have - only to find out that the things I thought were big choices and thought would help me out/screw me over, actually had no effect at all.
And while I understand as a gamer how disappointing that is, I also understand as a developer how hard it is to make a game that rewards you for certain choices. Not only how much more expensive it is from a production standpoint, but also because rewarding people for certain choices implies that those are the correct choices, which isn't something you want to do in a game about making tough choices. But we do keep track of every choice you make, and it does affect what the other characters think of you.
I would say, as someone who knows what's coming, to wait until the end of the series to complain about whether or not choices had any meaning. If you still don't think they did, we'd love to hear why, and suggestions for improvement. But just like the zombie apocalypse, bad things will always happen, despite your best efforts.
You see, by now, their is no consequences, the choices only change what the others thinks of you. I find amusing the ME reference, because they're doing the same thing... No consequences, no bad choices and when you can't do anything to save anybody apart Doug/Carley in ep1; Mark, Darley/Doug, Duck, Larry,Katjaa, Shawn: it's zombie apocalypse, badthing happen ! I agree but this is an easy excuse.
So yeah, you, yamiraziel, Red panda and a bunch of others are right, and the majority of critics are wrong. The choices matter, at last for you, but not for the 72% who have already dropped. If i follow you, the advertisment of the game and playing dead never say "the players choice will affect the story with lasting effect", they'd always said TWD will be a point and click adventure with a good story. It's scandalous that me and others guys on the net ask why we was advertissed ! It's an outrage ! We can't have sex with Carley (it's ironic) ! It's TWD world !
It's a choice made by Tella tale, i'm curious to see the lasting effect...
malcom155, I'm sorry, bro, but you've been on repeat for far too long. I'm no longer interested in reading your comments.
My final words to you are: If you dislike this game that strongly, stop playing it. If not, try focusing on the stuff you like.
malcom155, I'm sorry, bro, but you've been on repeat for far too long. I'm no longer interested in reading your comments.
My final words to you are: If you dislike this game that strongly, stop playing it. If not, try focusing on the stuff you like.
Yeah, felt like I was talking to a wall. I guess it's a language barrier kinda thing.
That article was pretty interesting, thanks for that. I checked out the first two but couldn't find one for Episode 3 yet. Hopefully they'll have one up soon, that or I'm blind.
If we were testing how you were able to survive a zombie apocalypse, that would mean that in every moment you were presented a choice, that there is a right and wrong choice. What would we base that on? What's morally right, or best for survival? But you'll find people won't even agree on what's "morally correct" a lot of the time, because everyone has their own set of morals.
Firstly, there totally are right and wrong choices in place in the game right now. For example, saving duck is the right choice in the duck/shawn thing because you never see hershel again to praise you for trying, but kenny is still with you remembering your decision.
Secondly, I don't think the true essence of what's upsetting everyone is being captured. The choices, the way they play out both ways sort of make sense if you really put yourself in lee's shoes and overthink it, but also happen very very conveniently in a way that keeps you guys from writing an additional story arc in (a lot of accidental shootings to this effect such as travis and doug). When you pair this with the "tailored gameplay" marketing, you're going to have some upset gamers.
Thirdly, I can attest to the fact that I thought I'd be surviving the zombie apocalypse my way, and I expected my decisions to lead me to different locations, encountering different scenarios for me to have to make choices, having varied group members, encountering different kinds of living foes, etc depending how I played and was disappointed when my 3 radically different playthroughs yielded every single event being exactly the same.
If episodes 4 deviates from this I'll be truly surprised.
Firstly, there totally are right and wrong choices in place in the game right now. For example, saving duck is the right choice in the duck/shawn thing because you never see hershel again to praise you for trying, but kenny is still with you remembering your decision.
Secondly, I don't think the true essence of what's upsetting everyone is being captured. The choices, the way they play out both ways sort of make sense if you really put yourself in lee's shoes and overthink it, but also happen very very conveniently in a way that keeps you guys from writing an additional story arc in (a lot of accidental shootings to this effect such as travis and doug). When you pair this with the "tailored gameplay" marketing, you're going to have some upset gamers.
Thirdly, I can attest to the fact that I thought I'd be surviving the zombie apocalypse my way, and I expected my decisions to lead me to different locations, encountering different scenarios for me to have to make choices, having varied group members, encountering different kinds of living foes, etc depending how I played and was disappointed when my 3 radically different playthroughs yielded every single event being exactly the same.
If episodes 4 deviates from this I'll be truly surprised.
First of all, horrible example. There's no right and wrong in this scene. You might see it as right to save Duck, because he's a kid, but on the other hand it is smarter to save Shawn cause he's a grown man and can help you defend Clem. You can also go with whoever you like more, so no, there's no right and wrong choice!
Secondly and thirdly, I'm glad your horrible vision of the game wasn't realized. I don't know how much experience you have with games and RPGs in particular but your vision would end up with a mediocre RPG with plenty of boring characters who nobody cares about. The story telling would suffer immensely from it as well.
I'm really happy with the unique experience Telltale had offered me so far. I have few complains here and there but since I haven't seen the entire story (full season 1) I'm not even going to mention them. Even if I did know the entire story, I'm sure those small things would be irrelevant.
First of all, horrible example. There's no right and wrong in this scene. You might see it as right to save Duck, because he's a kid, but on the other hand it is smarter to save Shawn cause he's a grown man and can help you defend Clem. You can also go with whoever you like more, so no, there's no right and wrong choice!
Secondly and thirdly, I'm glad your horrible vision of the game wasn't realized. I don't know how much experience you have with games and RPGs in particular but your vision would end up with a mediocre RPG with plenty of boring characters who nobody cares about. The story telling would suffer immensely from it as well.
I'm really happy with the unique experience Telltale had offered me so far. I have few complains here and there but since I haven't seen the entire story (full season 1) I'm not even going to mention them. Even if I did know the entire story, I'm sure those small things would be irrelevant.
from a replay perspective the duck/shawn choice is one with only one good choice, unless you just hated kenny and wanted to mess with him, saving the life of the only you can save is obviously the best choice.
from a replay perspective the duck/shawn choice is one with only one good choice, unless you just hated kenny and wanted to mess with him, saving the life of the only you can save is obviously the best choice.
Who cares about replays? I have replayed it more than 3 times now but I'm trying not to motivate my choices by my knowledge of what's to come.
Who cares about replays? I have replayed it more than 3 times now but I'm trying not to motivate my choices by my knowledge of what's to come.
well, i care about replays, and so does just about everybody who had complaints about the game being the same no matter what you do, else how could they know it was the same?
don't get me wrong, i try and put my mind in a place that doesn't know the future when i replay it, and play the role of a lee with his own motivations, but the duck/shawn "choice" is hard to ignore
First of all, horrible example. There's no right and wrong in this scene. You might see it as right to save Duck, because he's a kid, but on the other hand it is smarter to save Shawn cause he's a grown man and can help you defend Clem. You can also go with whoever you like more, so no, there's no right and wrong choice!
Did you not read my whole paragraph? I didn't even talk about the choice itself but its impact it had on the rest of the game. Choosing duck is the "right" choice because it gives you +Kenny instead of +Herschel where Kenny is going to be with you for at least 2 more episodes and you'll never see herschel again.
For another example, picking Carly is the "right" choice because if you pick her you get the option to tell people about your past in ep.3, which you don't get to do with doug. Doug has no advantages from a GAMEPLAY perspective.
Did you not read my whole paragraph? I didn't even talk about the choice itself but its impact it had on the rest of the game. Choosing duck is the "right" choice because it gives you +Kenny instead of +Herschel where Kenny is going to be with you for at least 2 more episodes and you'll never see herschel again.
For another example, picking Carly is the "right" choice because if you pick her you get the option to tell people about your past in ep.3, which you don't get to do with doug. Doug has no advantages from a GAMEPLAY perspective.
Where did a team member say that? Also, why not address the points of some of the other posts in the thread instead of throwing another useless post into the mix?
Read between the lines.
Because theres no point debating it. No matter what is said someone is going to come in here saying "But in episode 3 someone thanked me for something I did in episode 1. That right there is good story telling and showing how my choice mattered".
There are so many people constantly nagging, whining and complaining about the "misleading" way this game is being marketed. That your choices don't matter, and it will always end the same. Well, here's my take on the issue. I know there are plenty of threads complaining about these things, but I'm not seeing many trying to defend it. So here it is. (Note: I don't think I included any spoilers, but reader beware.)
TAILORED GAME EXPERIENCE
This is the description most people seem to be using when referring to this game, but also the most controversial. I'm most interested in that first word, however. Let's take a look at it.
TAILORED - This is a word that is most often used in the sense of clothes (obviously.) When you get something tailored, you're generally getting alterations and being fitted, that sort of thing. Most people do -not- use the word "tailored" in the sense that it's being made just for you. Tailor-made, perhaps, but usually we use the term "custom" when we talk about an entirely new piece made for somebody.
So what? This means that the game experience is "fitted" or "altered." It does not mean that the game is made specifically for you. No matter what you do, it's something that's already made and can only be adjusted so much. If you want to add, say, another pant leg, you'll probably need to start from scratch.
This also counts for the game. If you add an entirely different decision, suddenly you're adding more variables, which requires more writing/programming, and the more you do this, the more ridiculous it gets. Picture a coat with 5 arms, 12 pockets and 17 buttons. While it's certainly interesting to look at, it's hardly practical, would talk much too long to make, and in the end is entirely too complicated and rubbish.
BROKEN PROMISES
I actually find this a tad funny. Only in today's world are we so filled with entitlement that we start accusing people of broken promises that were actually never broken. I'm going to assume that when everyone complains about Telltale's "broken promises" that we're all referring to this exact quote, found pretty much everywhere the game is sold.
A tailored game experience – Live with the profound and lasting consequences of the decisions that you make in each episode. Your actions and choices will affect how your story plays out across the entire series.
I'm sorry to say, but if that's the description everyone is claiming is "lying" then those people are completely wrong. This game has delivered absolutely everything it's promised. Some might argue more. Let's pick this apart.
"Live with the profound and lasting consequences..."
Before we can really get into this, we need to understand that these words are subjective. Everyone will have a different meaning for "profound" and "lasting consequences." I believe this is where most people take exception, possibly due to high standards, or maybe just trying to justify why they don't like the game.
However, no one can argue that the decisions offered have been important. In the first episode, you're essentially given the choice to play god. You're the one who decides who lives and who dies at the end. Carley or Doug? This isn't a decision to take lightly. These are peoples' lives at stake. The person you don't help will die. They'll be gone. Permanently. You'll never see them again. This is a lasting decision.
Unless of course you choose to go back and play it again and choose the other one. I believe this is the biggest issue concerning this game. You've essentially been given omniscience. You can know all of the possible outcomes, and so they lose their impact. You begin to want it both ways, and grow angry when you can't have it. You become like a child, with a completely open toybox... but you have to put your toy away before you can grab a different one. I don't feel this describes everyone in this situation, but when you start throwing a fit because you can't have your way, you really do start to look like a child.
Many people bring up the inevitable deaths of certain characters as proof that nothing you say or do will matter. No matter what happens, this person will die. So what's the point? Let's take a look at the last bit of that quote.
"Your actions and choices will affect how your story plays out across the entire series."
There are a few words in that sentence I find interesting. "Your" and "story" stick out. You. The player. This is your story. This is, probably, the most misleading thing we're told, since this is actually Lee's story, but it's never what people harp on. No, people take exception to the promise of our actions and choices affecting the story. Well... Don't they?
WHAT AFFECTS A STORY?
Look at your favorite book. How long is it? Possibly a few hundred pages, right? Now what makes it so good? Is it the fact that the story has a great set-up? Or a great ending? Or a fantastic action scene? I really hope not. More often than not, it's the interaction between characters that really gets us. The dialogue, the situations, etc. Without those, most books would be incredibly boring. "Hero is wronged by villain, hero defeats villain, hero lives happily ever after." Not a very interesting story, right? A good story is the sum of its parts, not just a single scene at the end of Chapter 9. And everything in the book is deliberate and holds meaning, to the author and to the characters themselves.
Let's look at the Lord of the Rings. Now, there are many reasons these are fantastic books, from the sheer amount of lore to just the style of writing. We fell in love with the characters, and how they interacted, and their experiences and lives. But what happens when Boromir dies? Does it really matter that he was there at all now that he's dead? What about his father? His brother? Do they stop caring after his death? Of course not!
So why would you claim that nothing up to this point matters anymore after so-and-so died?
THE LASTING IMPRESSION
It doesn't matter that you lied to Hershel? It doesn't matter that you told Clementine her parents are probably dead? It doesn't matter that you told Larry to go fuck himself? Why on earth would you ever think that?
These are people. They feel emotion. They remember. They have pasts, and futures, and hopes and dreams. Yes, they're fictional, but in the context of the fiction, they're living, breathing people. Why, then, would everything they've done be pointless after they're dead or gone? Weren't you there? Didn't you hear their voice, see their actions? Have you forgotten so quickly?
This goes back to the omniscience we're afforded by being allowed a "do-over" and being able to see every possibility. We start to become detached. The words lose their meaning. It becomes all about the outcome. And that's tragic. I'm truly sorry to each and every one of you that have lost meaning in this story. You've been cheated out of something truly beautiful.
THE REAL BEAUTY
This is what separates the people constantly complaining about the game and those who can truly appreciate it. You have to be able to step out of your world for a moment, and place yourself in this one. You begin to truly feel the emotion, to appreciate the beauty of this world. You laugh in the happy times, and you mourn the loss of those you held dear. Your pulse races as you try to make it to Clementine before something terrible happens. You're hurt when a former friend loses their trust in you, and enraged that people can be so callous, or so stupid.
This isn't like your average game. Success isn't measured by how many people you saved, or how many you killed. It simply isn't about making it to the end. You've heard it time and time again: This is about the journey. And if you get caught up in trying to reach a certain point, you lose sight of the beauty around you.
So no. You can't change everything. But in the end, who can? You argue that, with no control over the outcome, what's the point? I ask you the exact opposite. If we control every outcome, what's the point? Life has meaning because we know it will end one day. So we appreciate what we have. We try to do our best within our means. Just like this game.
Remember: You'll only ever get out of it what you put into it.
A THANK YOU
I'd like to take this moment to thank Telltale Games, Robert Kirkman, and the various people involved with the realization of this story exactly as it is. It's tragic, it's exciting, it's frustrating and entirely beautiful. I've fallen in love with everything, the good and the bad. Words can't describe how excited I am to see the end, and to have experienced this wonderful world.
DISCLAIMER: This thread's purpose is to defend The Walking Dead game and voice my appreciation for the work the creators have put into this, and continue to support. Everything here is my opinion, and doesn't speak for anyone else. No insult was meant, but of course if you feel insulted, I won't apologize. This is truly how I feel, and to tell you otherwise would be wrong. If you still feel cheated in some way, take a step back and ask "Why?"
I understand that I may have taken this a little too seriously, but sometimes you have to go overboard to get your point across. Also, I apologize for the rambling nature of this post, or if anything seems incoherent. I'm not the best at this sort of thing, but thought I'd give it a shot.
Yes, I do feel that this was something that needed to happen. If only to be able to throw a wall of text at anyone who insists on arguing about these issues. I was just sick of all these threads popping up of people complaining, so I felt like answering those while also explaining why the game is great and thanking the team behind it. Optimism and whatnot.
Damn that was good! Should be required reading. Thank you for the post Viden. I only have one playthrough going on and everything Viden describes is what my experience is like with this terrific game.
There are so many people constantly nagging, whining and complaining about the "misleading" way this game is being marketed. That your choices don't matter, and it will always end the same. Well, here's my take on the issue. I know there are plenty of threads complaining about these things, but I'm not seeing many trying to defend it. So here it is. (Note: I don't think I included any spoilers, but reader beware.)
TAILORED GAME EXPERIENCE
This is the description most people seem to be using when referring to this game, but also the most controversial. I'm most interested in that first word, however. Let's take a look at it.
TAILORED - This is a word that is most often used in the sense of clothes (obviously.) When you get something tailored, you're generally getting alterations and being fitted, that sort of thing. Most people do -not- use the word "tailored" in the sense that it's being made just for you. Tailor-made, perhaps, but usually we use the term "custom" when we talk about an entirely new piece made for somebody.
So what? This means that the game experience is "fitted" or "altered." It does not mean that the game is made specifically for you. No matter what you do, it's something that's already made and can only be adjusted so much. If you want to add, say, another pant leg, you'll probably need to start from scratch.
This also counts for the game. If you add an entirely different decision, suddenly you're adding more variables, which requires more writing/programming, and the more you do this, the more ridiculous it gets. Picture a coat with 5 arms, 12 pockets and 17 buttons. While it's certainly interesting to look at, it's hardly practical, would talk much too long to make, and in the end is entirely too complicated and rubbish.
BROKEN PROMISES
I actually find this a tad funny. Only in today's world are we so filled with entitlement that we start accusing people of broken promises that were actually never broken. I'm going to assume that when everyone complains about Telltale's "broken promises" that we're all referring to this exact quote, found pretty much everywhere the game is sold.
I'm sorry to say, but if that's the description everyone is claiming is "lying" then those people are completely wrong. This game has delivered absolutely everything it's promised. Some might argue more. Let's pick this apart.
"Live with the profound and lasting consequences..."
Before we can really get into this, we need to understand that these words are subjective. Everyone will have a different meaning for "profound" and "lasting consequences." I believe this is where most people take exception, possibly due to high standards, or maybe just trying to justify why they don't like the game.
However, no one can argue that the decisions offered have been important. In the first episode, you're essentially given the choice to play god. You're the one who decides who lives and who dies at the end. Carley or Doug? This isn't a decision to take lightly. These are peoples' lives at stake. The person you don't help will die. They'll be gone. Permanently. You'll never see them again. This is a lasting decision.
Unless of course you choose to go back and play it again and choose the other one. I believe this is the biggest issue concerning this game. You've essentially been given omniscience. You can know all of the possible outcomes, and so they lose their impact. You begin to want it both ways, and grow angry when you can't have it. You become like a child, with a completely open toybox... but you have to put your toy away before you can grab a different one. I don't feel this describes everyone in this situation, but when you start throwing a fit because you can't have your way, you really do start to look like a child.
Many people bring up the inevitable deaths of certain characters as proof that nothing you say or do will matter. No matter what happens, this person will die. So what's the point? Let's take a look at the last bit of that quote.
"Your actions and choices will affect how your story plays out across the entire series."
There are a few words in that sentence I find interesting. "Your" and "story" stick out. You. The player. This is your story. This is, probably, the most misleading thing we're told, since this is actually Lee's story, but it's never what people harp on. No, people take exception to the promise of our actions and choices affecting the story. Well... Don't they?
WHAT AFFECTS A STORY?
Look at your favorite book. How long is it? Possibly a few hundred pages, right? Now what makes it so good? Is it the fact that the story has a great set-up? Or a great ending? Or a fantastic action scene? I really hope not. More often than not, it's the interaction between characters that really gets us. The dialogue, the situations, etc. Without those, most books would be incredibly boring. "Hero is wronged by villain, hero defeats villain, hero lives happily ever after." Not a very interesting story, right? A good story is the sum of its parts, not just a single scene at the end of Chapter 9. And everything in the book is deliberate and holds meaning, to the author and to the characters themselves.
Let's look at the Lord of the Rings. Now, there are many reasons these are fantastic books, from the sheer amount of lore to just the style of writing. We fell in love with the characters, and how they interacted, and their experiences and lives. But what happens when Boromir dies? Does it really matter that he was there at all now that he's dead? What about his father? His brother? Do they stop caring after his death? Of course not!
So why would you claim that nothing up to this point matters anymore after so-and-so died?
THE LASTING IMPRESSION
It doesn't matter that you lied to Hershel? It doesn't matter that you told Clementine her parents are probably dead? It doesn't matter that you told Larry to go fuck himself? Why on earth would you ever think that?
These are people. They feel emotion. They remember. They have pasts, and futures, and hopes and dreams. Yes, they're fictional, but in the context of the fiction, they're living, breathing people. Why, then, would everything they've done be pointless after they're dead or gone? Weren't you there? Didn't you hear their voice, see their actions? Have you forgotten so quickly?
This goes back to the omniscience we're afforded by being allowed a "do-over" and being able to see every possibility. We start to become detached. The words lose their meaning. It becomes all about the outcome. And that's tragic. I'm truly sorry to each and every one of you that have lost meaning in this story. You've been cheated out of something truly beautiful.
THE REAL BEAUTY
This is what separates the people constantly complaining about the game and those who can truly appreciate it. You have to be able to step out of your world for a moment, and place yourself in this one. You begin to truly feel the emotion, to appreciate the beauty of this world. You laugh in the happy times, and you mourn the loss of those you held dear. Your pulse races as you try to make it to Clementine before something terrible happens. You're hurt when a former friend loses their trust in you, and enraged that people can be so callous, or so stupid.
This isn't like your average game. Success isn't measured by how many people you saved, or how many you killed. It simply isn't about making it to the end. You've heard it time and time again: This is about the journey. And if you get caught up in trying to reach a certain point, you lose sight of the beauty around you.
So no. You can't change everything. But in the end, who can? You argue that, with no control over the outcome, what's the point? I ask you the exact opposite. If we control every outcome, what's the point? Life has meaning because we know it will end one day. So we appreciate what we have. We try to do our best within our means. Just like this game.
Remember: You'll only ever get out of it what you put into it.
A THANK YOU
I'd like to take this moment to thank Telltale Games, Robert Kirkman, and the various people involved with the realization of this story exactly as it is. It's tragic, it's exciting, it's frustrating and entirely beautiful. I've fallen in love with everything, the good and the bad. Words can't describe how excited I am to see the end, and to have experienced this wonderful world.
DISCLAIMER: This thread's purpose is to defend The Walking Dead game and voice my appreciation for the work the creators have put into this, and continue to support. Everything here is my opinion, and doesn't speak for anyone else. No insult was meant, but of course if you feel insulted, I won't apologize. This is truly how I feel, and to tell you otherwise would be wrong. If you still feel cheated in some way, take a step back and ask "Why?"
I understand that I may have taken this a little too seriously, but sometimes you have to go overboard to get your point across. Also, I apologize for the rambling nature of this post, or if anything seems incoherent. I'm not the best at this sort of thing, but thought I'd give it a shot.
Great write up! Now I feel guilty playing the game through more than once, cause you mentioned that haha.
don't you think the fact that so many people in your opinion misunderstood the advertisement means that is was misleading?
computer games are going to be played more than once, so the "omniscience we're afforded by being allowed a "do-over"" is something that is a part of any game and should matter to developers.
and i think you are right about the "Your actions and choices will affect how your story plays out across the entire series." part, it is better to think of it as Lee's story not your story.
I'm not the best at this sort of thing, but thought I'd give it a shot.
I think you did just fine, it's a nice change. Thank you!
In my opinion, the ability to replay, discover other options, make different choices, rounds out the story for me. Choices that may not have been my first often give a better understanding of the characters, so I don't see it as a drawback.
The only thing I would point out is that by "broken promises", I believe the majority of posters are referring to the initially described monthly installments. As I didn't purchase until after episode 2 was released, I was already aware of the change of status to periodic releases.
This is a great post and accurately portrays the way I feel about the game and its 'criticisms' as well.
There are a lot of people who don't see the game as we do; as a journey, with real people and real consequences.
And if I've said this once I've said it a million times; just because choice is involved in this game, doesn't mean you can choose everything. Otherwise you could choose not to have any character die, you could choose not to have any character undergo hardships...hell, you could even choose to avert the apocalypse.
It. Just. Doesn't. Work. Like. That.
And really, what's so bad about waiting another month for the release. It just builds the suspense and anticipation even more. And ff you have nothing better to do than wait around for the game to be released, you need to rearrange your priorities.
There are so many people constantly nagging, whining and complaining about the "misleading" way this game is being marketed. That your choices don't matter, and it will always end the same. Well, here's my take on the issue. I know there are plenty of threads complaining about these things, but I'm not seeing many trying to defend it.
BROKEN PROMISES
I actually find this a tad funny. Only in today's world are we so filled with entitlement that we start accusing people of broken promises that were actually never broken. I'm going to assume that when everyone complains about Telltale's "broken promises" that we're all referring to this exact quote, found pretty much everywhere the game is sold.
THE LASTING IMPRESSION
It doesn't matter that you lied to Hershel? It doesn't matter that you told Clementine her parents are probably dead? It doesn't matter that you told Larry to go fuck himself? Why on earth would you ever think that?
These are people. They feel emotion. They remember. They have pasts, and futures, and hopes and dreams. Yes, they're fictional, but in the context of the fiction, they're living, breathing people. Why, then, would everything they've done be pointless after they're dead or gone? Weren't you there? Didn't you hear their voice, see their actions? Have you forgotten so quickly?
This goes back to the omniscience we're afforded by being allowed a "do-over" and being able to see every possibility. We start to become detached. The words lose their meaning. It becomes all about the outcome. And that's tragic. I'm truly sorry to each and every one of you that have lost meaning in this story. You've been cheated out of something truly beautiful.
This isn't like your average game. Success isn't measured by how many people you saved, or how many you killed. It simply isn't about making it to the end. You've heard it time and time again: This is about the journey. And if you get caught up in trying to reach a certain point, you lose sight of the beauty around you.
So no. You can't change everything. But in the end, who can? You argue that, with no control over the outcome, what's the point? I ask you the exact opposite. If we control every outcome, what's the point? Life has meaning because we know it will end one day. So we appreciate what we have. We try to do our best within our means. Just like this game.
DISCLAIMER: This thread's purpose is to defend The Walking Dead game and voice my appreciation for the work the creators have put into this, and continue to support. Everything here is my opinion, and doesn't speak for anyone else. No insult was meant, but of course if you feel insulted, I won't apologize. This is truly how I feel, and to tell you otherwise would be wrong. If you still feel cheated in some way, take a step back and ask "Why?"
I understand that I may have taken this a little too seriously, but sometimes you have to go overboard to get your point across. Also, I apologize for the rambling nature of this post, or if anything seems incoherent. I'm not the best at this sort of thing, but thought I'd give it a shot.
Totally agree with all of the above, although I may fall into some of the categories myself I think the real complainers/haters should wait until the end of episode five before they can claim nothing changes/matters.
Any good book waits until the last chapters to activate any choices/decisions made in previous chapters to build up tension and reveal all and we have now reached that point with episode four and the five so be prepared for drama.
Ps. Love the apology and disclaimer, keep up the good fight.:D
don't you think the fact that so many people in your opinion misunderstood the advertisement means that is was misleading?
computer games are going to be played more than once, so the "omniscience we're afforded by being allowed a "do-over"" is something that is a part of any game and should matter to developers.
and i think you are right about the "Your actions and choices will affect how your story plays out across the entire series." part, it is better to think of it as Lee's story not your story.
I wouldn't characterize the advertisement as misleading. I would, however, blame the hype this game has received and our own wild imaginations. As humans, we have the ability to produce countless possibilities and ideas, and I think that those words proved very intriguing to us, and so our expectations rose. I can fully understand why a few people may be disappointed, but to claim that we were lied to is simply wrong. In a way, we lied to ourselves.
I can understand why a do-over is to be expected, and replayability is one of the biggest ideas pushed in today's game industry. But at the same time, it can desensitize us to what the game has to offer. We start taking it for granted, and the story starts to lose meaning. No one was surprised when Larry's face exploded after the first play-through. And the more people play, the more dissatisfied they become, and they want more. Unfortunately, that's base human nature. We take what we want, and when we grow tired of it, we want more.
That's how I see it anyway. And I'm certainly not innocent here. I spoiled many of the different paths and outcomes for myself, and so they've lost their impact. Ignorance really is bliss.
There are so many people constantly nagging, whining and complaining about the "misleading" way this game is being marketed. That your choices don't matter, and it will always end the same. Well, here's my take on the issue. I know there are plenty of threads complaining about these things, but I'm not seeing many trying to defend it. So here it is. (Note: I don't think I included any spoilers, but reader beware.)
TAILORED GAME EXPERIENCE
This is the description most people seem to be using when referring to this game, but also the most controversial. I'm most interested in that first word, however. Let's take a look at it.
TAILORED - This is a word that is most often used in the sense of clothes (obviously.) When you get something tailored, you're generally getting alterations and being fitted, that sort of thing. Most people do -not- use the word "tailored" in the sense that it's being made just for you. Tailor-made, perhaps, but usually we use the term "custom" when we talk about an entirely new piece made for somebody.
So what? This means that the game experience is "fitted" or "altered." It does not mean that the game is made specifically for you. No matter what you do, it's something that's already made and can only be adjusted so much. If you want to add, say, another pant leg, you'll probably need to start from scratch.
This also counts for the game. If you add an entirely different decision, suddenly you're adding more variables, which requires more writing/programming, and the more you do this, the more ridiculous it gets. Picture a coat with 5 arms, 12 pockets and 17 buttons. While it's certainly interesting to look at, it's hardly practical, would talk much too long to make, and in the end is entirely too complicated and rubbish.
BROKEN PROMISES
I actually find this a tad funny. Only in today's world are we so filled with entitlement that we start accusing people of broken promises that were actually never broken. I'm going to assume that when everyone complains about Telltale's "broken promises" that we're all referring to this exact quote, found pretty much everywhere the game is sold.
I'm sorry to say, but if that's the description everyone is claiming is "lying" then those people are completely wrong. This game has delivered absolutely everything it's promised. Some might argue more. Let's pick this apart.
"Live with the profound and lasting consequences..."
Before we can really get into this, we need to understand that these words are subjective. Everyone will have a different meaning for "profound" and "lasting consequences." I believe this is where most people take exception, possibly due to high standards, or maybe just trying to justify why they don't like the game.
However, no one can argue that the decisions offered have been important. In the first episode, you're essentially given the choice to play god. You're the one who decides who lives and who dies at the end. Carley or Doug? This isn't a decision to take lightly. These are peoples' lives at stake. The person you don't help will die. They'll be gone. Permanently. You'll never see them again. This is a lasting decision.
Unless of course you choose to go back and play it again and choose the other one. I believe this is the biggest issue concerning this game. You've essentially been given omniscience. You can know all of the possible outcomes, and so they lose their impact. You begin to want it both ways, and grow angry when you can't have it. You become like a child, with a completely open toybox... but you have to put your toy away before you can grab a different one. I don't feel this describes everyone in this situation, but when you start throwing a fit because you can't have your way, you really do start to look like a child.
Many people bring up the inevitable deaths of certain characters as proof that nothing you say or do will matter. No matter what happens, this person will die. So what's the point? Let's take a look at the last bit of that quote.
"Your actions and choices will affect how your story plays out across the entire series."
There are a few words in that sentence I find interesting. "Your" and "story" stick out. You. The player. This is your story. This is, probably, the most misleading thing we're told, since this is actually Lee's story, but it's never what people harp on. No, people take exception to the promise of our actions and choices affecting the story. Well... Don't they?
WHAT AFFECTS A STORY?
Look at your favorite book. How long is it? Possibly a few hundred pages, right? Now what makes it so good? Is it the fact that the story has a great set-up? Or a great ending? Or a fantastic action scene? I really hope not. More often than not, it's the interaction between characters that really gets us. The dialogue, the situations, etc. Without those, most books would be incredibly boring. "Hero is wronged by villain, hero defeats villain, hero lives happily ever after." Not a very interesting story, right? A good story is the sum of its parts, not just a single scene at the end of Chapter 9. And everything in the book is deliberate and holds meaning, to the author and to the characters themselves.
Let's look at the Lord of the Rings. Now, there are many reasons these are fantastic books, from the sheer amount of lore to just the style of writing. We fell in love with the characters, and how they interacted, and their experiences and lives. But what happens when Boromir dies? Does it really matter that he was there at all now that he's dead? What about his father? His brother? Do they stop caring after his death? Of course not!
So why would you claim that nothing up to this point matters anymore after so-and-so died?
THE LASTING IMPRESSION
It doesn't matter that you lied to Hershel? It doesn't matter that you told Clementine her parents are probably dead? It doesn't matter that you told Larry to go fuck himself? Why on earth would you ever think that?
These are people. They feel emotion. They remember. They have pasts, and futures, and hopes and dreams. Yes, they're fictional, but in the context of the fiction, they're living, breathing people. Why, then, would everything they've done be pointless after they're dead or gone? Weren't you there? Didn't you hear their voice, see their actions? Have you forgotten so quickly?
This goes back to the omniscience we're afforded by being allowed a "do-over" and being able to see every possibility. We start to become detached. The words lose their meaning. It becomes all about the outcome. And that's tragic. I'm truly sorry to each and every one of you that have lost meaning in this story. You've been cheated out of something truly beautiful.
THE REAL BEAUTY
This is what separates the people constantly complaining about the game and those who can truly appreciate it. You have to be able to step out of your world for a moment, and place yourself in this one. You begin to truly feel the emotion, to appreciate the beauty of this world. You laugh in the happy times, and you mourn the loss of those you held dear. Your pulse races as you try to make it to Clementine before something terrible happens. You're hurt when a former friend loses their trust in you, and enraged that people can be so callous, or so stupid.
This isn't like your average game. Success isn't measured by how many people you saved, or how many you killed. It simply isn't about making it to the end. You've heard it time and time again: This is about the journey. And if you get caught up in trying to reach a certain point, you lose sight of the beauty around you.
So no. You can't change everything. But in the end, who can? You argue that, with no control over the outcome, what's the point? I ask you the exact opposite. If we control every outcome, what's the point? Life has meaning because we know it will end one day. So we appreciate what we have. We try to do our best within our means. Just like this game.
Remember: You'll only ever get out of it what you put into it.
A THANK YOU
I'd like to take this moment to thank Telltale Games, Robert Kirkman, and the various people involved with the realization of this story exactly as it is. It's tragic, it's exciting, it's frustrating and entirely beautiful. I've fallen in love with everything, the good and the bad. Words can't describe how excited I am to see the end, and to have experienced this wonderful world.
DISCLAIMER: This thread's purpose is to defend The Walking Dead game and voice my appreciation for the work the creators have put into this, and continue to support. Everything here is my opinion, and doesn't speak for anyone else. No insult was meant, but of course if you feel insulted, I won't apologize. This is truly how I feel, and to tell you otherwise would be wrong. If you still feel cheated in some way, take a step back and ask "Why?"
I understand that I may have taken this a little too seriously, but sometimes you have to go overboard to get your point across. Also, I apologize for the rambling nature of this post, or if anything seems incoherent. I'm not the best at this sort of thing, but thought I'd give it a shot.
gd that post should be stickied- hell it should be a mandatory read before entering these forums, would leave the rest of us to discuss fresh topics instead of trying to define/defend old ones.
gd that post should be stickied- hell it should be a mandatory read before entering these forums, would leave the rest of us to discuss fresh topics instead of trying to define/defend old ones.
No kidding, dude. That was a baller post Viden. I just hope people actually read your post.
gd that post should be stickied- hell it should be a mandatory read before entering these forums, would leave the rest of us to discuss fresh topics instead of trying to define/defend old ones.
Yup. Viden, great post, wonderful effort. Allow me to honor it by picking it apart, add a few things yet also play devil's advocate for a moment.
The Tailored Game Experience
I was thinking in the same vein, take it literal and see where it gets us. "Tailored" just means "altered". And of course the taylor strives to accomplish the greatest alterations with the fewest possible stitches or added materials. That is the spirit of the game, and it could not be any different.
But 'tailored' also suggests: adjusted according to your wishes. The five arm coat analogy doesn't fit here. One player gets one arm type and the other one another, both should leave with an intact coat. If five possible arm variants are not possible, maybe the taylor could at least offer two and stick with it.
Broken Promise
It is a child's way of perceiving things to imagine even the most vague statement into the most fantastical of possible outcomes, and to elevate every word of a grown-up into a "promise". I'm with you, no promises were broken.
"Live with the profound and lasting consequences..."
Profound they are, lasting they are too. No argument there. But do they matter? Does it matter whom you feed if your team actually is fed less than two hours later? Does it matter whom of two persons you save just to live a meager three months more in the most dire circumstances? A lie to a complete stranger whom you'll never meet again? Murdering someone who has no chance of survival anyway? Stealing from someone who is most probably dead?
Don't get me wrong on this: I think many decisions matter. Mostly because you're trying to raise a child properly, because the moments count as a mirror of Lee's present morality. Yet what if Clementine dies? Was everything in vain then? Was every choice for naught? What even matters if no one is left to judge your actions?
The Walking Dead - by definition - is not a world in which choices have much consequence. This is due to the hopeless situation and the prevalence of the dilemma. Whatever you do, shit and guilt WILL be the outcome. Whomever you save WILL die tomorrow. Whatever you build WILL be destroyed. Wherever you hide, you WILL be found. Lee doesn't have the final word, death is the final word. That's as profound as it gets.
The Real Beauty
There is none. Kirkman's world is about as filled with hope and beautiful things as the works of Erich Remarque. Telltale has done a much better job than Kirkman at creating lovable characters, and they do touch you (and will, by the way, stay with you far longer than in the average zombie movie; and have far more to say than the average TWD comic character). But they're essentially all set up to die. It's the world, it's the genre, it's the narrative, and if they skillfully play with those things, there is a certain gruesome beauty to it. But you can only feel said racing pulse if you DON'T look at the narrative, if you feel hope for the characters' survival, if you do not consider what is eventually inevitable here.
Comments
I know, I should know better. That book has been pretty awesome so far, btw. Almost halfway through WWZ.
Play the game for the story. It is a very emotional, heart-breaking experience. If you're playing to win, you've picked the wrong game.
isnt it? Im just about halfway; some of those stories are freakin awesome
Like the Battle of Yonkers; and Redeker's story; and televised celebrity fort?
Much more realistic battles and just reading about the breakdown of power and communication and the building chaos...ya really good stuff
@dankirk yep but it's not the game who as be advertissed and talke in playing dead.
@Marleysativa: i don't speak about poll because only a handful of players came here, on steam every pc player is counted. For "it's TWD world" argument, i was just giving example...
For the succes page, it's important to take note that TWD succes are the story, more you advance in it, more the succes are unblocked. You have nothing to do to have beside play the game. Now, 72% of the owner of the game don't finish the chapter 3. We are only at the middle of the game.
A game is finish by 40% on average. TWD is only at 28% in the middle of the game. Wooo great succes ! How it's promising for the second season !!!!
@Xarne Its on the internet dude, so it must be true!
No just one page before... Our choice change what the other characters think of Lee... But no how the act and the result ! The chapter 3 show us that. So, by now, no choice matter and we are all at the same point.
You see, by now, their is no consequences, the choices only change what the others thinks of you. I find amusing the ME reference, because they're doing the same thing... No consequences, no bad choices and when you can't do anything to save anybody apart Doug/Carley in ep1; Mark, Darley/Doug, Duck, Larry,Katjaa, Shawn: it's zombie apocalypse, badthing happen ! I agree but this is an easy excuse.
So yeah, you, yamiraziel, Red panda and a bunch of others are right, and the majority of critics are wrong. The choices matter, at last for you, but not for the 72% who have already dropped. If i follow you, the advertisment of the game and playing dead never say "the players choice will affect the story with lasting effect", they'd always said TWD will be a point and click adventure with a good story. It's scandalous that me and others guys on the net ask why we was advertissed ! It's an outrage ! We can't have sex with Carley (it's ironic) ! It's TWD world !
It's a choice made by Tella tale, i'm curious to see the lasting effect...
My final words to you are: If you dislike this game that strongly, stop playing it. If not, try focusing on the stuff you like.
To all the rest, you might check this thread... It was posted on TWD's facebook page and it's quite good actually - http://www.giantbomb.com/news/the-walking-deads-faces-of-death-part-1/4335/
Uh, no. You wanna argue with me, put on your pants and use your words.
Yeah, felt like I was talking to a wall. I guess it's a language barrier kinda thing.
That article was pretty interesting, thanks for that. I checked out the first two but couldn't find one for Episode 3 yet. Hopefully they'll have one up soon, that or I'm blind.
I prefer arguing in my underwear actually, very empowering
Firstly, there totally are right and wrong choices in place in the game right now. For example, saving duck is the right choice in the duck/shawn thing because you never see hershel again to praise you for trying, but kenny is still with you remembering your decision.
Secondly, I don't think the true essence of what's upsetting everyone is being captured. The choices, the way they play out both ways sort of make sense if you really put yourself in lee's shoes and overthink it, but also happen very very conveniently in a way that keeps you guys from writing an additional story arc in (a lot of accidental shootings to this effect such as travis and doug). When you pair this with the "tailored gameplay" marketing, you're going to have some upset gamers.
Thirdly, I can attest to the fact that I thought I'd be surviving the zombie apocalypse my way, and I expected my decisions to lead me to different locations, encountering different scenarios for me to have to make choices, having varied group members, encountering different kinds of living foes, etc depending how I played and was disappointed when my 3 radically different playthroughs yielded every single event being exactly the same.
If episodes 4 deviates from this I'll be truly surprised.
First of all, horrible example. There's no right and wrong in this scene. You might see it as right to save Duck, because he's a kid, but on the other hand it is smarter to save Shawn cause he's a grown man and can help you defend Clem. You can also go with whoever you like more, so no, there's no right and wrong choice!
Secondly and thirdly, I'm glad your horrible vision of the game wasn't realized. I don't know how much experience you have with games and RPGs in particular but your vision would end up with a mediocre RPG with plenty of boring characters who nobody cares about. The story telling would suffer immensely from it as well.
I'm really happy with the unique experience Telltale had offered me so far. I have few complains here and there but since I haven't seen the entire story (full season 1) I'm not even going to mention them. Even if I did know the entire story, I'm sure those small things would be irrelevant.
from a replay perspective the duck/shawn choice is one with only one good choice, unless you just hated kenny and wanted to mess with him, saving the life of the only you can save is obviously the best choice.
Who cares about replays? I have replayed it more than 3 times now but I'm trying not to motivate my choices by my knowledge of what's to come.
well, i care about replays, and so does just about everybody who had complaints about the game being the same no matter what you do, else how could they know it was the same?
don't get me wrong, i try and put my mind in a place that doesn't know the future when i replay it, and play the role of a lee with his own motivations, but the duck/shawn "choice" is hard to ignore
Did you not read my whole paragraph? I didn't even talk about the choice itself but its impact it had on the rest of the game. Choosing duck is the "right" choice because it gives you +Kenny instead of +Herschel where Kenny is going to be with you for at least 2 more episodes and you'll never see herschel again.
For another example, picking Carly is the "right" choice because if you pick her you get the option to tell people about your past in ep.3, which you don't get to do with doug. Doug has no advantages from a GAMEPLAY perspective.
... whatever.
That's disconcerting.
And the My Little Pony print is distracting.
Read between the lines.
Because theres no point debating it. No matter what is said someone is going to come in here saying "But in episode 3 someone thanked me for something I did in episode 1. That right there is good story telling and showing how my choice mattered".
TAILORED GAME EXPERIENCE
This is the description most people seem to be using when referring to this game, but also the most controversial. I'm most interested in that first word, however. Let's take a look at it.
TAILORED - This is a word that is most often used in the sense of clothes (obviously.) When you get something tailored, you're generally getting alterations and being fitted, that sort of thing. Most people do -not- use the word "tailored" in the sense that it's being made just for you. Tailor-made, perhaps, but usually we use the term "custom" when we talk about an entirely new piece made for somebody.
So what? This means that the game experience is "fitted" or "altered." It does not mean that the game is made specifically for you. No matter what you do, it's something that's already made and can only be adjusted so much. If you want to add, say, another pant leg, you'll probably need to start from scratch.
This also counts for the game. If you add an entirely different decision, suddenly you're adding more variables, which requires more writing/programming, and the more you do this, the more ridiculous it gets. Picture a coat with 5 arms, 12 pockets and 17 buttons. While it's certainly interesting to look at, it's hardly practical, would talk much too long to make, and in the end is entirely too complicated and rubbish.
BROKEN PROMISES
I actually find this a tad funny. Only in today's world are we so filled with entitlement that we start accusing people of broken promises that were actually never broken. I'm going to assume that when everyone complains about Telltale's "broken promises" that we're all referring to this exact quote, found pretty much everywhere the game is sold.
I'm sorry to say, but if that's the description everyone is claiming is "lying" then those people are completely wrong. This game has delivered absolutely everything it's promised. Some might argue more. Let's pick this apart.
"Live with the profound and lasting consequences..."
Before we can really get into this, we need to understand that these words are subjective. Everyone will have a different meaning for "profound" and "lasting consequences." I believe this is where most people take exception, possibly due to high standards, or maybe just trying to justify why they don't like the game.
However, no one can argue that the decisions offered have been important. In the first episode, you're essentially given the choice to play god. You're the one who decides who lives and who dies at the end. Carley or Doug? This isn't a decision to take lightly. These are peoples' lives at stake. The person you don't help will die. They'll be gone. Permanently. You'll never see them again. This is a lasting decision.
Unless of course you choose to go back and play it again and choose the other one. I believe this is the biggest issue concerning this game. You've essentially been given omniscience. You can know all of the possible outcomes, and so they lose their impact. You begin to want it both ways, and grow angry when you can't have it. You become like a child, with a completely open toybox... but you have to put your toy away before you can grab a different one. I don't feel this describes everyone in this situation, but when you start throwing a fit because you can't have your way, you really do start to look like a child.
Many people bring up the inevitable deaths of certain characters as proof that nothing you say or do will matter. No matter what happens, this person will die. So what's the point? Let's take a look at the last bit of that quote.
"Your actions and choices will affect how your story plays out across the entire series."
There are a few words in that sentence I find interesting. "Your" and "story" stick out. You. The player. This is your story. This is, probably, the most misleading thing we're told, since this is actually Lee's story, but it's never what people harp on. No, people take exception to the promise of our actions and choices affecting the story. Well... Don't they?
WHAT AFFECTS A STORY?
Look at your favorite book. How long is it? Possibly a few hundred pages, right? Now what makes it so good? Is it the fact that the story has a great set-up? Or a great ending? Or a fantastic action scene? I really hope not. More often than not, it's the interaction between characters that really gets us. The dialogue, the situations, etc. Without those, most books would be incredibly boring. "Hero is wronged by villain, hero defeats villain, hero lives happily ever after." Not a very interesting story, right? A good story is the sum of its parts, not just a single scene at the end of Chapter 9. And everything in the book is deliberate and holds meaning, to the author and to the characters themselves.
Let's look at the Lord of the Rings. Now, there are many reasons these are fantastic books, from the sheer amount of lore to just the style of writing. We fell in love with the characters, and how they interacted, and their experiences and lives. But what happens when Boromir dies? Does it really matter that he was there at all now that he's dead? What about his father? His brother? Do they stop caring after his death? Of course not!
So why would you claim that nothing up to this point matters anymore after so-and-so died?
THE LASTING IMPRESSION
It doesn't matter that you lied to Hershel? It doesn't matter that you told Clementine her parents are probably dead? It doesn't matter that you told Larry to go fuck himself? Why on earth would you ever think that?
These are people. They feel emotion. They remember. They have pasts, and futures, and hopes and dreams. Yes, they're fictional, but in the context of the fiction, they're living, breathing people. Why, then, would everything they've done be pointless after they're dead or gone? Weren't you there? Didn't you hear their voice, see their actions? Have you forgotten so quickly?
This goes back to the omniscience we're afforded by being allowed a "do-over" and being able to see every possibility. We start to become detached. The words lose their meaning. It becomes all about the outcome. And that's tragic. I'm truly sorry to each and every one of you that have lost meaning in this story. You've been cheated out of something truly beautiful.
THE REAL BEAUTY
This is what separates the people constantly complaining about the game and those who can truly appreciate it. You have to be able to step out of your world for a moment, and place yourself in this one. You begin to truly feel the emotion, to appreciate the beauty of this world. You laugh in the happy times, and you mourn the loss of those you held dear. Your pulse races as you try to make it to Clementine before something terrible happens. You're hurt when a former friend loses their trust in you, and enraged that people can be so callous, or so stupid.
This isn't like your average game. Success isn't measured by how many people you saved, or how many you killed. It simply isn't about making it to the end. You've heard it time and time again: This is about the journey. And if you get caught up in trying to reach a certain point, you lose sight of the beauty around you.
So no. You can't change everything. But in the end, who can? You argue that, with no control over the outcome, what's the point? I ask you the exact opposite. If we control every outcome, what's the point? Life has meaning because we know it will end one day. So we appreciate what we have. We try to do our best within our means. Just like this game.
Remember: You'll only ever get out of it what you put into it.
A THANK YOU
I'd like to take this moment to thank Telltale Games, Robert Kirkman, and the various people involved with the realization of this story exactly as it is. It's tragic, it's exciting, it's frustrating and entirely beautiful. I've fallen in love with everything, the good and the bad. Words can't describe how excited I am to see the end, and to have experienced this wonderful world.
DISCLAIMER: This thread's purpose is to defend The Walking Dead game and voice my appreciation for the work the creators have put into this, and continue to support. Everything here is my opinion, and doesn't speak for anyone else. No insult was meant, but of course if you feel insulted, I won't apologize. This is truly how I feel, and to tell you otherwise would be wrong. If you still feel cheated in some way, take a step back and ask "Why?"
I understand that I may have taken this a little too seriously, but sometimes you have to go overboard to get your point across. Also, I apologize for the rambling nature of this post, or if anything seems incoherent. I'm not the best at this sort of thing, but thought I'd give it a shot.
What? People are only allowed to bitch about the game?
Yes, I do feel that this was something that needed to happen. If only to be able to throw a wall of text at anyone who insists on arguing about these issues. I was just sick of all these threads popping up of people complaining, so I felt like answering those while also explaining why the game is great and thanking the team behind it. Optimism and whatnot.
Also, I might be a tad obsessed...
Nothing stated here is ever necessary, so why question this thread?
Great write up! Now I feel guilty playing the game through more than once, cause you mentioned that haha.
computer games are going to be played more than once, so the "omniscience we're afforded by being allowed a "do-over"" is something that is a part of any game and should matter to developers.
and i think you are right about the "Your actions and choices will affect how your story plays out across the entire series." part, it is better to think of it as Lee's story not your story.
I think you did just fine, it's a nice change. Thank you!
In my opinion, the ability to replay, discover other options, make different choices, rounds out the story for me. Choices that may not have been my first often give a better understanding of the characters, so I don't see it as a drawback.
The only thing I would point out is that by "broken promises", I believe the majority of posters are referring to the initially described monthly installments. As I didn't purchase until after episode 2 was released, I was already aware of the change of status to periodic releases.
There are a lot of people who don't see the game as we do; as a journey, with real people and real consequences.
And if I've said this once I've said it a million times; just because choice is involved in this game, doesn't mean you can choose everything. Otherwise you could choose not to have any character die, you could choose not to have any character undergo hardships...hell, you could even choose to avert the apocalypse.
It. Just. Doesn't. Work. Like. That.
And really, what's so bad about waiting another month for the release. It just builds the suspense and anticipation even more. And ff you have nothing better to do than wait around for the game to be released, you need to rearrange your priorities.
Totally agree with all of the above, although I may fall into some of the categories myself I think the real complainers/haters should wait until the end of episode five before they can claim nothing changes/matters.
Any good book waits until the last chapters to activate any choices/decisions made in previous chapters to build up tension and reveal all and we have now reached that point with episode four and the five so be prepared for drama.
Ps. Love the apology and disclaimer, keep up the good fight.:D
I wouldn't characterize the advertisement as misleading. I would, however, blame the hype this game has received and our own wild imaginations. As humans, we have the ability to produce countless possibilities and ideas, and I think that those words proved very intriguing to us, and so our expectations rose. I can fully understand why a few people may be disappointed, but to claim that we were lied to is simply wrong. In a way, we lied to ourselves.
I can understand why a do-over is to be expected, and replayability is one of the biggest ideas pushed in today's game industry. But at the same time, it can desensitize us to what the game has to offer. We start taking it for granted, and the story starts to lose meaning. No one was surprised when Larry's face exploded after the first play-through. And the more people play, the more dissatisfied they become, and they want more. Unfortunately, that's base human nature. We take what we want, and when we grow tired of it, we want more.
That's how I see it anyway. And I'm certainly not innocent here. I spoiled many of the different paths and outcomes for myself, and so they've lost their impact. Ignorance really is bliss.
"I can, forum."
"Suck it, whiners."
No kidding, dude. That was a baller post Viden. I just hope people actually read your post.
http://youtu.be/AZ-IcS7mRSk
lol no one can totally tear you apart while making it seem so civilized quite like the Brits, that was hilarious
Yup. Viden, great post, wonderful effort. Allow me to honor it by picking it apart, add a few things yet also play devil's advocate for a moment.
The Tailored Game Experience
I was thinking in the same vein, take it literal and see where it gets us. "Tailored" just means "altered". And of course the taylor strives to accomplish the greatest alterations with the fewest possible stitches or added materials. That is the spirit of the game, and it could not be any different.
But 'tailored' also suggests: adjusted according to your wishes. The five arm coat analogy doesn't fit here. One player gets one arm type and the other one another, both should leave with an intact coat. If five possible arm variants are not possible, maybe the taylor could at least offer two and stick with it.
Broken Promise
It is a child's way of perceiving things to imagine even the most vague statement into the most fantastical of possible outcomes, and to elevate every word of a grown-up into a "promise". I'm with you, no promises were broken.
"Live with the profound and lasting consequences..."
Profound they are, lasting they are too. No argument there. But do they matter? Does it matter whom you feed if your team actually is fed less than two hours later? Does it matter whom of two persons you save just to live a meager three months more in the most dire circumstances? A lie to a complete stranger whom you'll never meet again? Murdering someone who has no chance of survival anyway? Stealing from someone who is most probably dead?
Don't get me wrong on this: I think many decisions matter. Mostly because you're trying to raise a child properly, because the moments count as a mirror of Lee's present morality. Yet what if Clementine dies? Was everything in vain then? Was every choice for naught? What even matters if no one is left to judge your actions?
The Walking Dead - by definition - is not a world in which choices have much consequence. This is due to the hopeless situation and the prevalence of the dilemma. Whatever you do, shit and guilt WILL be the outcome. Whomever you save WILL die tomorrow. Whatever you build WILL be destroyed. Wherever you hide, you WILL be found. Lee doesn't have the final word, death is the final word. That's as profound as it gets.
The Real Beauty
There is none. Kirkman's world is about as filled with hope and beautiful things as the works of Erich Remarque. Telltale has done a much better job than Kirkman at creating lovable characters, and they do touch you (and will, by the way, stay with you far longer than in the average zombie movie; and have far more to say than the average TWD comic character). But they're essentially all set up to die. It's the world, it's the genre, it's the narrative, and if they skillfully play with those things, there is a certain gruesome beauty to it. But you can only feel said racing pulse if you DON'T look at the narrative, if you feel hope for the characters' survival, if you do not consider what is eventually inevitable here.