There are so many people constantly nagging, whining and complaining about the "misleading" way this game is being marketed. That your choices don't matter, and it will always end the same. Well, here's my take on the issue. I know there are plenty of threads complaining about these things, but I'm not seeing many trying to defend it. So here it is. (Note: I don't think I included any spoilers, but reader beware.)
TAILORED GAME EXPERIENCE
This is the description most people seem to be using when referring to this game, but also the most controversial. I'm most interested in that first word, however. Let's take a look at it.
TAILORED - This is a word that is most often used in the sense of clothes (obviously.) When you get something tailored, you're generally getting alterations and being fitted, that sort of thing. Most people do -not- use the word "tailored" in the sense that it's being made just for you. Tailor-made, perhaps, but usually we use the term "custom" when we talk about an entirely new piece made for somebody.
So what? This means that the game experience is "fitted" or "altered." It does not mean that the game is made specifically for you. No matter what you do, it's something that's already made and can only be adjusted so much. If you want to add, say, another pant leg, you'll probably need to start from scratch.
This also counts for the game. If you add an entirely different decision, suddenly you're adding more variables, which requires more writing/programming, and the more you do this, the more ridiculous it gets. Picture a coat with 5 arms, 12 pockets and 17 buttons. While it's certainly interesting to look at, it's hardly practical, would talk much too long to make, and in the end is entirely too complicated and rubbish.
BROKEN PROMISES
I actually find this a tad funny. Only in today's world are we so filled with entitlement that we start accusing people of broken promises that were actually never broken. I'm going to assume that when everyone complains about Telltale's "broken promises" that we're all referring to this exact quote, found pretty much everywhere the game is sold.
I'm sorry to say, but if that's the description everyone is claiming is "lying" then those people are completely wrong. This game has delivered absolutely everything it's promised. Some might argue more. Let's pick this apart.
"Live with the profound and lasting consequences..."
Before we can really get into this, we need to understand that these words are subjective. Everyone will have a different meaning for "profound" and "lasting consequences." I believe this is where most people take exception, possibly due to high standards, or maybe just trying to justify why they don't like the game.
However, no one can argue that the decisions offered have been important. In the first episode, you're essentially given the choice to play god. You're the one who decides who lives and who dies at the end. Carley or Doug? This isn't a decision to take lightly. These are peoples' lives at stake. The person you don't help will die. They'll be gone. Permanently. You'll never see them again. This is a lasting decision.
Unless of course you choose to go back and play it again and choose the other one. I believe this is the biggest issue concerning this game. You've essentially been given omniscience. You can know all of the possible outcomes, and so they lose their impact. You begin to want it both ways, and grow angry when you can't have it. You become like a child, with a completely open toybox... but you have to put your toy away before you can grab a different one. I don't feel this describes everyone in this situation, but when you start throwing a fit because you can't have your way, you really do start to look like a child.
Many people bring up the inevitable deaths of certain characters as proof that nothing you say or do will matter. No matter what happens, this person will die. So what's the point? Let's take a look at the last bit of that quote.
"Your actions and choices will affect how your story plays out across the entire series."
There are a few words in that sentence I find interesting. "Your" and "story" stick out. You. The player. This is your story. This is, probably, the most misleading thing we're told, since this is actually Lee's story, but it's never what people harp on. No, people take exception to the promise of our actions and choices affecting the story. Well... Don't they?
WHAT AFFECTS A STORY?
Look at your favorite book. How long is it? Possibly a few hundred pages, right? Now what makes it so good? Is it the fact that the story has a great set-up? Or a great ending? Or a fantastic action scene? I really hope not. More often than not, it's the interaction between characters that really gets us. The dialogue, the situations, etc. Without those, most books would be incredibly boring. "Hero is wronged by villain, hero defeats villain, hero lives happily ever after." Not a very interesting story, right? A good story is the sum of its parts, not just a single scene at the end of Chapter 9. And everything in the book is deliberate and holds meaning, to the author and to the characters themselves.
Let's look at the Lord of the Rings. Now, there are many reasons these are fantastic books, from the sheer amount of lore to just the style of writing. We fell in love with the characters, and how they interacted, and their experiences and lives. But what happens when Boromir dies? Does it really matter that he was there at all now that he's dead? What about his father? His brother? Do they stop caring after his death? Of course not!
So why would you claim that nothing up to this point matters anymore after so-and-so died?
THE LASTING IMPRESSION
It doesn't matter that you lied to Hershel? It doesn't matter that you told Clementine her parents are probably dead? It doesn't matter that you told Larry to go fuck himself? Why on earth would you ever think that?
These are people. They feel emotion. They remember. They have pasts, and futures, and hopes and dreams. Yes, they're fictional, but in the context of the fiction, they're living, breathing people. Why, then, would everything they've done be pointless after they're dead or gone? Weren't you there? Didn't you hear their voice, see their actions? Have you forgotten so quickly?
This goes back to the omniscience we're afforded by being allowed a "do-over" and being able to see every possibility. We start to become detached. The words lose their meaning. It becomes all about the outcome. And that's tragic. I'm truly sorry to each and every one of you that have lost meaning in this story. You've been cheated out of something truly beautiful.
THE REAL BEAUTY
This is what separates the people constantly complaining about the game and those who can truly appreciate it. You have to be able to step out of your world for a moment, and place yourself in this one. You begin to truly feel the emotion, to appreciate the beauty of this world. You laugh in the happy times, and you mourn the loss of those you held dear. Your pulse races as you try to make it to Clementine before something terrible happens. You're hurt when a former friend loses their trust in you, and enraged that people can be so callous, or so stupid.
This isn't like your average game. Success isn't measured by how many people you saved, or how many you killed. It simply isn't about making it to the end. You've heard it time and time again: This is about the journey. And if you get caught up in trying to reach a certain point, you lose sight of the beauty around you.
So no. You can't change everything. But in the end, who can? You argue that, with no control over the outcome, what's the point? I ask you the exact opposite. If we control every outcome, what's the point? Life has meaning because we know it will end one day. So we appreciate what we have. We try to do our best within our means. Just like this game.
Remember: You'll only ever get out of it what you put into it.
A THANK YOU
I'd like to take this moment to thank Telltale Games, Robert Kirkman, and the various people involved with the realization of this story exactly as it is. It's tragic, it's exciting, it's frustrating and entirely beautiful. I've fallen in love with everything, the good and the bad. Words can't describe how excited I am to see the end, and to have experienced this wonderful world.
DISCLAIMER: This thread's purpose is to defend The Walking Dead game and voice my appreciation for the work the creators have put into this, and continue to support. Everything here is my opinion, and doesn't speak for anyone else. No insult was meant, but of course if you feel insulted, I won't apologize. This is truly how I feel, and to tell you otherwise would be wrong. If you still feel cheated in some way, take a step back and ask "Why?"
I understand that I may have taken this a little too seriously, but sometimes you have to go overboard to get your point across. Also, I apologize for the rambling nature of this post, or if anything seems incoherent. I'm not the best at this sort of thing, but thought I'd give it a shot.
Ad Hominem attack due to inability to respond to the actual content of the post. 'nuff said.
Give him time, in the years to come he will play much greater games and be met with so many more greater disappointments. He too, will come to learn the mysterious ways of video game marketing
Profound they are, lasting they are too. No argument there.
Err? Name me a single choice that was lasting. I can't find a single one. Except for stealing the supplies+making clem take the hoodie = she STILL wears it.
Everything else, is absolutely and clearly NOT lasting.
I like how you say "They are. No argument there." Without giving a single example, lol. I looked back at all choices, and each and every single one is nullified by the end of EP3, except for the hoodie.
Heck even the dialogue options aren't lasting. I told Clem in EP1 clearly and headon that I murdered someone and when I told her (again) in EP3 she acts like I never told her in the first place being all disappointed and sad. Wtf is up with even dialog not being remembered?
Heck even the dialogue options aren't lasting. I told Clem in EP1 clearly and headon that I murdered someone and when I told her (again) in EP3 she acts like I never told her in the first place being all disappointed and sad. Wtf is up with even dialog not being remembered?
I did a playthrough where I was 100% honest, in the drug store office when you pick "I killed someone' they wont even let him say it...he sugar coats even worse than the 'I did a bad thing' option.
I did a playthrough where I was 100% honest, in the drug store office when you pick "I killed someone' they wont even let him say it...he sugar coats even worse than the 'I did a bad thing' option.
Err no she knew 100% in EP1.
Here is exactly what happened in my playthrough:
Entering the Office. Carley 3ft away from Clementine openly saying I killed the Senator.
After moving Table: I chose the option "I killed someone". Lee says:I ki.... got into a fight once, it ended really badly.
When leaving the room clementine says: "That lady said you killed someone. Was that because he was one of the things?" Me: No he wasn't
Her: "Oh. Was he bad?". Lee: "He was".
So yes that is 100% her knowing that I killed someone (not a zombie). first from hearing from Carley and then again twice by me (one at the table that was "sugar coated") and then again at the door straight forward truth.
YET!!! At EP3 when I tell her "again" she acts completely as if she never knew.
I'll bet they did that in Ep 3 because they were sure no one would tell a child they knew for a few hrs they murdered someone from Ep1...but it makes the game seem kinda silly, like why even have the option if the game wont respect/remember it in later Episodes
There are so many people constantly nagging, whining and complaining about the "misleading" way this game is being marketed. That your choices don't matter, and it will always end the same. Well, here's my take on the issue. I know there are plenty of threads complaining about these things, but I'm not seeing many trying to defend it. So here it is. (Note: I don't think I included any spoilers, but reader beware.)
You don't see threads praising the game? Perhaps because you are looking for negative posts to hop into and make posts like this in. Face it nice posts are fine and dandy, but negative are far more interesting...People tend to gravitate towards the negative so that they can "correct" people who are so obviously mistaken as to be unhappy. Or perhaps just to share their own displeasure with the game.
TAILORED GAME EXPERIENCE
This is the description most people seem to be using when referring to this game, but also the most controversial. I'm most interested in that first word, however. Let's take a look at it.
TAILORED - This is a word that is most often used in the sense of clothes (obviously.) When you get something tailored, you're generally getting alterations and being fitted, that sort of thing. Most people do -not- use the word "tailored" in the sense that it's being made just for you. Tailor-made, perhaps, but usually we use the term "custom" when we talk about an entirely new piece made for somebody.
So what? This means that the game experience is "fitted" or "altered." It does not mean that the game is made specifically for you. No matter what you do, it's something that's already made and can only be adjusted so much. If you want to add, say, another pant leg, you'll probably need to start from scratch.
This also counts for the game. If you add an entirely different decision, suddenly you're adding more variables, which requires more writing/programming, and the more you do this, the more ridiculous it gets. Picture a coat with 5 arms, 12 pockets and 17 buttons. While it's certainly interesting to look at, it's hardly practical, would talk much too long to make, and in the end is entirely too complicated and rubbish.
Beat on that straw man...I find it amusing.
No one expects 50 million branches depending on their choices, and if they do why are you listening to them? They are crazy. The thing is a lot of the choices in this game are completely negated usually within minutes of making them. This helps kill the illusion of choice.
BROKEN PROMISES
I actually find this a tad funny. Only in today's world are we so filled with entitlement that we start accusing people of broken promises that were actually never broken. I'm going to assume that when everyone complains about Telltale's "broken promises" that we're all referring to this exact quote, found pretty much everywhere the game is sold.
Actually most people have pointed out that the marketing is less than accurate. Thats pretty close to saying lying, but its not the picture you paint of children running around screaming "You lied to me! I hate you!". And nice job trying to clump everyone together to make it easier to defend your position.
I'm sorry to say, but if that's the description everyone is claiming is "lying" then those people are completely wrong. This game has delivered absolutely everything it's promised. Some might argue more. Let's pick this apart.
"Live with the profound and lasting consequences..."
Before we can really get into this, we need to understand that these words are subjective. Everyone will have a different meaning for "profound" and "lasting consequences." I believe this is where most people take exception, possibly due to high standards, or maybe just trying to justify why they don't like the game.
And what you've said here is that it is a matter of opinion whether something is profound or it has a lasting consequence. This is true...it is a matter of opinion. For some simply having someone mention a decision you made is enough. While others expect...well..something more profound.
However, no one can argue that the decisions offered have been important. In the first episode, you're essentially given the choice to play god. You're the one who decides who lives and who dies at the end. Carley or Doug? This isn't a decision to take lightly. These are peoples' lives at stake. The person you don't help will die. They'll be gone. Permanently. You'll never see them again. This is a lasting decision.
No one can argue that eh? Isn't that exactly what has been argued? But you saying it can't be clears all that up.
I would argue that the decisions have not been important. They have little to no affect on the story and they are often negated very quickly. I will say the decisions have been given the perception of importance in the moment you are given the choice(and they do a very good job here)....Though its usually right after that you are like "oh it didn't even matter".
Its this realization that has people disappointed. When you lose that illusion of choice it kind of kills a story that is supposed to be based on your choices. For some people they lost that illusion earlier and for others it took some time. This is why you see people attacking various choices such as the carley/doug thing...Its not so much about that specific choice, but it was that choice that made them lose that illusion of choice.
Unless of course you choose to go back and play it again and choose the other one. I believe this is the biggest issue concerning this game. You've essentially been given omniscience. You can know all of the possible outcomes, and so they lose their impact. You begin to want it both ways, and grow angry when you can't have it. You become like a child, with a completely open toybox... but you have to put your toy away before you can grab a different one. I don't feel this describes everyone in this situation, but when you start throwing a fit because you can't have your way, you really do start to look like a child.
There are plenty of people who have 1 play through with no rewinds that are disappointed with the choices. I am one of them. Yes the ability to do so is part of what is driving people batty, but its only a side effect of what I was speaking about. When people lose that illusion of choice they want it back. They will go back and try different routes to see if perhaps something will happen differently. The thing is this game is pretty linear and they find this out when they do the other play throughs. This only further shows them how little their choices truely matter....
So yes this is something that gets people upset, but not for the reason you are saying. Also you really need to stop comparing people who are unhappy with children...We can't be logical adults and be unhappy? I realize you say "not everyone" but thats more of a defensive stand point incase you get called on it. You are attacking people with a different view on a matter based on their view. Even if it is the extremists you are talking about it does not add anything to your arguement.
Many people bring up the inevitable deaths of certain characters as proof that nothing you say or do will matter. No matter what happens, this person will die. So what's the point? Let's take a look at the last bit of that quote.
I've already expressed my view on this.
"Your actions and choices will affect how your story plays out across the entire series."
There are a few words in that sentence I find interesting. "Your" and "story" stick out. You. The player. This is your story. This is, probably, the most misleading thing we're told, since this is actually Lee's story, but it's never what people harp on. No, people take exception to the promise of our actions and choices affecting the story. Well... Don't they?
You try to twist words here but kind of fail if anyone looks closely at what you are saying. You actually kind of defend people who are unhappy here. This IS one of the things people harp on...They do not feel it is their story. They just express it differently.
WHAT AFFECTS A STORY?
Look at your favorite book. How long is it? Possibly a few hundred pages, right? Now what makes it so good? Is it the fact that the story has a great set-up? Or a great ending? Or a fantastic action scene? I really hope not. More often than not, it's the interaction between characters that really gets us. The dialogue, the situations, etc. Without those, most books would be incredibly boring. "Hero is wronged by villain, hero defeats villain, hero lives happily ever after." Not a very interesting story, right? A good story is the sum of its parts, not just a single scene at the end of Chapter 9. And everything in the book is deliberate and holds meaning, to the author and to the characters themselves.
Let's look at the Lord of the Rings. Now, there are many reasons these are fantastic books, from the sheer amount of lore to just the style of writing. We fell in love with the characters, and how they interacted, and their experiences and lives. But what happens when Boromir dies? Does it really matter that he was there at all now that he's dead? What about his father? His brother? Do they stop caring after his death? Of course not!
So you are comparing apples and supposedly oranges here? Yes the story telling elements are similiar, but there are key differences. Namely the fact that this is supposedly an interactive story... I feel you are off base with whatever point you are trying to make here. Most people are not complaining about the story itself...
So why would you claim that nothing up to this point matters anymore after so-and-so died?
So you are trying to compare the death of a character in a book to the death of a character in this game. Where one of your choices was to save this person and people clung onto that choice as their "profound and lasting" part of the game? You seriously can't see why people are upset?
THE LASTING IMPRESSION
It doesn't matter that you lied to Hershel? It doesn't matter that you told Clementine her parents are probably dead? It doesn't matter that you told Larry to go fuck himself? Why on earth would you ever think that?
These are people. They feel emotion. They remember. They have pasts, and futures, and hopes and dreams. Yes, they're fictional, but in the context of the fiction, they're living, breathing people. Why, then, would everything they've done be pointless after they're dead or gone? Weren't you there? Didn't you hear their voice, see their actions? Have you forgotten so quickly?
This goes back to the omniscience we're afforded by being allowed a "do-over" and being able to see every possibility. We start to become detached. The words lose their meaning. It becomes all about the outcome. And that's tragic. I'm truly sorry to each and every one of you that have lost meaning in this story. You've been cheated out of something truly beautiful.
Again you miss the entire point. People are looking for their "profound and lasting consequences" and in doing so they are picking apart every choice in the game. When they are not finding something that seems profound or lasting to them they get upset and attack the choices that have no meaning. Lets face it a lot of the choices have no meaning...carry no weight in the game...and as I said are often negated.
THE REAL BEAUTY
This is what separates the people constantly complaining about the game and those who can truly appreciate it. You have to be able to step out of your world for a moment, and place yourself in this one. You begin to truly feel the emotion, to appreciate the beauty of this world. You laugh in the happy times, and you mourn the loss of those you held dear. Your pulse races as you try to make it to Clementine before something terrible happens. You're hurt when a former friend loses their trust in you, and enraged that people can be so callous, or so stupid.
This isn't like your average game. Success isn't measured by how many people you saved, or how many you killed. It simply isn't about making it to the end. You've heard it time and time again: This is about the journey. And if you get caught up in trying to reach a certain point, you lose sight of the beauty around you.
So no. You can't change everything. But in the end, who can? You argue that, with no control over the outcome, what's the point? I ask you the exact opposite. If we control every outcome, what's the point? Life has meaning because we know it will end one day. So we appreciate what we have. We try to do our best within our means. Just like this game.
Remember: You'll only ever get out of it what you put into it.
It sounds like you are looking at the game like a book or a graphic novel. And because of this you are completely happy with what you have been given. And thats great...Good for you. I am truely 100% happy that you feel this way and feel you've gotten what you have paid for.
The thing is I expected more than a story. I expected an interactive game that tells a story that I can influence. I look at the interactive side of the game and I feel that them constantly negatating my choices pulls me out of it. I feel that the story is just meh and fairly predictable. I feel that the new characters were shoved down my throat in a way that I found hard to believe. These are just a few of my gripes...
So theres a number of reasons I am less than happy about this game. Do I expect you to feel the same way? No, because its all a matter of opinion. Do I expect you to respect my views on the matter? Absolutely.
I get it you like the game. That does not mean you need to change everyones mind that does not. That doesn't mean that people who don't like it are children.
TheWildcard, most of the people who disliked the game are not children? Okay, however, most of the people who complained in this thread, acted like children.
I read your post and no matter how you phrase it "Negating my choices" it all goes back to "Omg, I'm not a god, my choices do not actually change everything and everybody, so the game does not deliver".
The thing is that even in real life it is really difficult, sometimes almost impossible to change or affect people like Lilly and Kenny. You might try, but I'm telling you that it won't be easy and you will most likely fail.
People like Katjaa, Carley/Doug, Ben and most of the minor characters as a whole are much easier to reason with and you may really affect them or convince them of something. Lilly and Kenny are not that type of people, so they'll often do whatever they feel is right, disregarding your opinion. That doesn't mean that your opinion doesn't matter or the choice you make is irrelevant just because you didn't change anything.
lol you try and help people and they just complain more, then people wonder why devs dont want to deal with this BS and abandon you all to rot in your misery. Not a shred of constructive criticism just moar crying. I wish I could say Im sorry you dont like the game but Im not, but you are right in the fact that people do like negative threads, thats why I keep coming back to watch the tears flow.
I draw an inner strength from the rage and salty rivers.
TheWildcard, most of the people who disliked the game are not children? Okay, however, most of the people who complained in this thread, acted like children.
I read your post and no matter how you phrase it "Negating my choices" it all goes back to "Omg, I'm not a god, my choices do not actually change everything and everybody, so the game does not deliver".
The thing is that even in real life it is really difficult, sometimes almost impossible to change or affect people like Lilly and Kenny. You might try, but I'm telling you that it won't be easy and you will most likely fail.
People like Katjaa, Carley/Doug, Ben and most of the minor characters as a whole are much easier to reason with and you may really affect them or convince them of something. Lilly and Kenny are not that type of people, so they'll often do whatever they feel is right, disregarding your opinion. That doesn't mean that your opinion doesn't matter or the choice you make is irrelevant just because you didn't change anything.
So because I want some of my choices to matter and have a lasting consequence in the game I'm being unreasonable is what you are saying? Stop attacking that straw man for a second...I'm not sitting here saying every decision has to matter or last. I'm not saying "boo boo I'm not god"...I'm saying EVERY choice is obviously negated....and it is done so shortly after you make the choice that it feels cheap. Its obviously done so quickly so they don't have to have variations in the story, but to negate them directly after making them? That is just lazy...
The only exception here is the Doug/carley choice...The thing is those characters were tucked away till they were done away with. Why save them if there is going to be no real character interaction? I don't even understand how people got so attached to them with how little interaction you had.
So because I want some of my choices to matter and have a lasting consequence in the game I'm being unreasonable is what you are saying? Stop attacking that straw man for a second...I'm not sitting here saying every decision has to matter or last. I'm not saying "boo boo I'm not god"...I'm saying EVERY choice is obviously negated....and it is done so shortly after you make the choice that it feels cheap. Its obviously done so quickly so they don't have to have variations in the story, but to negate them directly after making them? That is just lazy...
The only exception here is the Doug/carley choice...The thing is those characters were tucked away till they were done away with. Why save them if there is going to be no real character interaction? I don't even understand how people got so attached to them with how little interaction you had.
TTG's marketing department sold you a dream and you bought it. I bet you wont make that mistake again.
There is no point in discussing anything with people like YamiRaziel. Reading through this topic regularly as it is my biggest complaint about the game, I had the unfortunate 'pleasure' of also reading his posts and they are always the same.
He has basically no arguments and either goes completely offtopic talking about things that have nothing to do with the game's choices or -what seems like by far his favorite style of 'argumentation'- always calling everyone a child, a crybaby and totally exaggerating and completely falsifying his 'oppositions' statements to a point of ridiculousness.
Logical and objective arguments do not help against those type of people.
Your best bet is to ignore and wait for more intellectual participants on the discussion.
TheWildcard's post is a perfect example of reasonable discussion.
And what most people don't seem to understand: When people like me argue about being disappointed by the ineffectiveness or even sheer 'sterile' decisions it doesn't mean that we think the game completely sucks. It just means that in this specific aspect that is being discussed which this topic has been created for the game seems to fail on a lot of us.
TheWildcard's post is a perfect example of reasonable discussion.
And what most people don't seem to understand: When people like me argue about being disappointed by the ineffectiveness or even sheer 'sterile' decisions it doesn't mean that we think the game completely sucks. It just means that in this specific aspect that is being discussed which this topic has been created for the game seems to fail on a lot of us.
eh...its just weird how his posts sounds like nit-pick trolling while yours sound like constructive criticism. I guess it's all in the wording.
There is no point in discussing anything with people like YamiRaziel. Reading through this topic regularly as it is my biggest complaint about the game, I had the unfortunate 'pleasure' of also reading his posts and they are always the same.
He has basically no arguments and either goes completely offtopic talking about things that have nothing to do with the game's choices or -what seems like by far his favorite style of 'argumentation'- always calling everyone a child, a crybaby and totally exaggerating and completely falsifying his 'oppositions' statements to a point of ridiculousness.
Logical and objective arguments do not help against those type of people.
Your best bet is to ignore and wait for more intellectual participants on the discussion.
TheWildcard's post is a perfect example of reasonable discussion.
And what most people don't seem to understand: When people like me argue about being disappointed by the ineffectiveness or even sheer 'sterile' decisions it doesn't mean that we think the game completely sucks. It just means that in this specific aspect that is being discussed which this topic has been created for the game seems to fail on a lot of us.
Oh, thank you, dubesor. I can see you're a sweet, kind and mature person.
If you've read the previous posts as you claim, you would've noticed that I've been answering posts like yours with lots of argumentations. I'm not gonna repeat myself over and over and over again just because some people are too lazy to go back and read what we've discussed.
Feel free to ignore my posts from now on! I don't want to be held responsible for the unfortunate "pleasure" you're getting from them.
TheWildcard, your post is a perfect example of things that were already posted and answered by a lot of people.
I'm sorry if you take my lack of argumentation as a personal insult.
I guess you should wait for... as dubesor puts it "more intellectual participants on the discussion" because I'm really tired of saying the same stuff over and over again.
Yeah, how many times have I pointed out that Heavy Rain (the game that everyone cites as what Walking Dead should play like) is just as linear and doesn't deviate from one inescapable narrative until the very end? Choice in video game can't feasibly exist yet, that's the point no one looks at. If you bought this game hoping for that, you haven't played Indigo Prophecy, Heavy Rain and Jurassic Park and know where technology/budgeting stands and what to expect from the genre and Telltale.
I've made this point already, and there have been awesome points clearly laying out what's going on: nobody is going to read them. This discussion board isn't about discussion, no one's hear to learn anything. No, we're a chemical mixture that creates chaos. We just shake each other up and call each other names like "whiner", "fanboy" and insults.
Here's the bottom line: the choices ARE limited, the ending will have at most five splits and different endings, technology and production won't allow for the true Choose Your Own Adventure gameplay some expect, and people on forums don't read anything before they post their own opinions.
I'm trying to remember if I've ever posted in this thread. 28 pages, wow. If I did, it was probably deliberately off topic.
This discussion seems rather moot considering the game is only half over.
You can check that. When you go to the main The Walking Dead Story Discussion - SPOILERS, next to the name of the topic (the the left actually) it should say how many posts you have in the thread
Yeah, how many times have I pointed out that Heavy Rain (the game that everyone cites as what Walking Dead should play like) is just as linear and doesn't deviate from one inescapable narrative until the very end? Choice in video game can't feasibly exist yet, that's the point no one looks at. If you bought this game hoping for that, you haven't played Indigo Prophecy, Heavy Rain and Jurassic Park and know where technology/budgeting stands and what to expect from the genre and Telltale.
I've made this point already, and there have been awesome points clearly laying out what's going on: nobody is going to read them. This discussion board isn't about discussion, no one's hear to learn anything. No, we're a chemical mixture that creates chaos. We just shake each other up and call each other names like "whiner", "fanboy" and insults.
Here's the bottom line: the choices ARE limited, the ending will have at most five splits and different endings, technology and production won't allow for the true Choose Your Own Adventure gameplay some expect, and people on forums don't read anything before they post their own opinions.
This sums up 28 pages right here, but people will bypass it to put their .02 in.
People really expected this to play like Heavy Rain??
But it's not, and here's the best part, instead of them taking that for what it is, you're now the TTG lackey fanboi whatever...
Can you imagine how much more quiet the boards would be if they had a 'complaints and issues' forum- Im surprised it hasnt been implemented in other game forums before this.
It would allow people who actually like the game to talk with others who do and allow those who have issues to feed off each other's contempt for it.
Neither side would have to deal with each others labels (fanboi, whiner, lackey, crybaby, etc) and everybody could have their say
@Vainamoinen it's a good PR post you made, but, honestly i think it's just a lame excuse, but it's only my opinion...
I invite you to read the description of the game on steam... in french ! (yes, i'm french) The word "tailored" is translate by "custom"... Now, can you see why i'm upset ? If this a mistake, it's a big one... In french our choices "affect the story through the series" and so on... it's just a F...ing big exaggeration !
Well... This discussion will last until the end of the game, and to be honest, i don't care anymore. I thinked TWD was really a great game, but now, i'm tired to argue when all the response i have are "it's TWD world, deal with it" or "all you want it's to bang Carley"or "Suck it, whiners." or "you are not a god" or "In real life, you can't control everything"... It's a game, not real life... I give up with you guys, and i will never have a response to the question in my signature...
BUT several of my choices already matters: I discourage buying the game NOW (until i see the end and how the story is "customised " by my choices) and if the story is not custom, i will consider Tellatale being a society that greatly exaggerate what they can actually do. Perhaps it's a PR mistake but it does not come from me and and it is still not corrected or amended on Steam, so, after that, if a season 2 come, i will play it... but i will never buy it (i think it's clear no ?).
Well... This discussion will last until the end of the game, and to be honest, i don't care anymore. I thinked TWD was really a great game, but now, i'm tired to argue when all the response i have are "it's TWD world, deal with it" or "all you want it's to bang Carley"or "Suck it, whiners." or "you are not a god" or "In real life, you can't control everything"... It's a game, not real life... I give up with you guys, and i will never have a response to the question in my signature...
Dude! My post doesn't say any of your quotes! Seriously, read mine! There's far more arguments than that. What post are you even referring to? Vain hasn't posted since a whole page ago.
I was a bit disappointed with the story choices. Reminded me of LA Noir, where most game choices are superficial. If you pick Shawn he still dies the same. Even if the other chosen character died(Doug or Carlie), the other said the same things. And no matter what I said nothing changed story points, like Larry shoving you down even if you side with him. Oh and with Glenn, if you hand the girl the gun he says how can you let people give up but if you refuse he says how can you deny someone's choice! The character's in the game should have the same convictions no matter what you choose, this is unacceptable character development.
Supposedly the choices of Episode 1 greatly affect how everyone views you though... I sure hope the following episodes prove more impressive with the choices, and I realllllly hope it branches out and expands more. For a 2hr game it should have a lot more possibilities.
I know it's only a $5 game, just please don't let me down.
Otherwise, the story itself was awesome, the gameplay is really good and the art style is incredible. Still the best TT game to date! Keep it up guys!
The designers are trying really hard to make those choices matter further down the rabbit hole. I'm hoping you'll be pleased.
Given the source, this seems clearly disingenuous. You haven't even solved the problem of carrying choices from episode to episode on the pc.
In any case, none of the choices in Episode 1 have any meaning as of the end of Episode 3. You really need to either a) do better, or b) stop pretending choice is particularly meaningful.
I see this game branching....But in the last episode. I figure they will take one of two routes for the split...
1 They will simply have a number of decisions that split the game at that point regardless of what you have done previously.
2 They will pretend to make your choices matter by tallying up your choices and grading them. This will create branches for "you are a jerk", "you just let things happen around you", "you tried to play hero", and so on.
This seems inevitable, although adding in the way Deus Ex handled its ending would be just fine, where depending on what you emphasized, you closed with one of three 45 second cutscenes. With TWD, that would be on the order of
a) your inability to make clearcut moral choices results in Clem's death. The St. Johns have been following you at a distance and your decision not the kill them in E2 allow them to take their ultimate revenge. You will forever carry your sorrow, alone, into the ZA
b) your attempts to shield Clem from the realities of the ZA have rendered her unable to recognize danger and fully defend herself. As a result she has just been bitten a zombie and your choices are now to i) shoot her, or ii) watch her turn
c) your willingness to show Clem exactly what it takes to survive allows her to kill the final zombie on the dock and let both of you escape safely to sea. Bravo!
There are so many people constantly nagging, whining and complaining about the "misleading" way this game is being marketed. That your choices don't matter, and it will always end the same. Well, here's my take on the issue. I know there are plenty of threads complaining about these things, but I'm not seeing many trying to defend it. So here it is. (Note: I don't think I included any spoilers, but reader beware.)
TAILORED GAME EXPERIENCE
This is the description most people seem to be using when referring to this game, but also the most controversial. I'm most interested in that first word, however. Let's take a look at it.
TAILORED - This is a word that is most often used in the sense of clothes (obviously.) When you get something tailored, you're generally getting alterations and being fitted, that sort of thing. Most people do -not- use the word "tailored" in the sense that it's being made just for you. Tailor-made, perhaps, but usually we use the term "custom" when we talk about an entirely new piece made for somebody.
So what? This means that the game experience is "fitted" or "altered." It does not mean that the game is made specifically for you. No matter what you do, it's something that's already made and can only be adjusted so much. If you want to add, say, another pant leg, you'll probably need to start from scratch.
This also counts for the game. If you add an entirely different decision, suddenly you're adding more variables, which requires more writing/programming, and the more you do this, the more ridiculous it gets. Picture a coat with 5 arms, 12 pockets and 17 buttons. While it's certainly interesting to look at, it's hardly practical, would talk much too long to make, and in the end is entirely too complicated and rubbish.
BROKEN PROMISES
I actually find this a tad funny. Only in today's world are we so filled with entitlement that we start accusing people of broken promises that were actually never broken. I'm going to assume that when everyone complains about Telltale's "broken promises" that we're all referring to this exact quote, found pretty much everywhere the game is sold.
I'm sorry to say, but if that's the description everyone is claiming is "lying" then those people are completely wrong. This game has delivered absolutely everything it's promised. Some might argue more. Let's pick this apart.
"Live with the profound and lasting consequences..."
Before we can really get into this, we need to understand that these words are subjective. Everyone will have a different meaning for "profound" and "lasting consequences." I believe this is where most people take exception, possibly due to high standards, or maybe just trying to justify why they don't like the game.
However, no one can argue that the decisions offered have been important. In the first episode, you're essentially given the choice to play god. You're the one who decides who lives and who dies at the end. Carley or Doug? This isn't a decision to take lightly. These are peoples' lives at stake. The person you don't help will die. They'll be gone. Permanently. You'll never see them again. This is a lasting decision.
Unless of course you choose to go back and play it again and choose the other one. I believe this is the biggest issue concerning this game. You've essentially been given omniscience. You can know all of the possible outcomes, and so they lose their impact. You begin to want it both ways, and grow angry when you can't have it. You become like a child, with a completely open toybox... but you have to put your toy away before you can grab a different one. I don't feel this describes everyone in this situation, but when you start throwing a fit because you can't have your way, you really do start to look like a child.
Many people bring up the inevitable deaths of certain characters as proof that nothing you say or do will matter. No matter what happens, this person will die. So what's the point? Let's take a look at the last bit of that quote.
"Your actions and choices will affect how your story plays out across the entire series."
There are a few words in that sentence I find interesting. "Your" and "story" stick out. You. The player. This is your story. This is, probably, the most misleading thing we're told, since this is actually Lee's story, but it's never what people harp on. No, people take exception to the promise of our actions and choices affecting the story. Well... Don't they?
WHAT AFFECTS A STORY?
Look at your favorite book. How long is it? Possibly a few hundred pages, right? Now what makes it so good? Is it the fact that the story has a great set-up? Or a great ending? Or a fantastic action scene? I really hope not. More often than not, it's the interaction between characters that really gets us. The dialogue, the situations, etc. Without those, most books would be incredibly boring. "Hero is wronged by villain, hero defeats villain, hero lives happily ever after." Not a very interesting story, right? A good story is the sum of its parts, not just a single scene at the end of Chapter 9. And everything in the book is deliberate and holds meaning, to the author and to the characters themselves.
Let's look at the Lord of the Rings. Now, there are many reasons these are fantastic books, from the sheer amount of lore to just the style of writing. We fell in love with the characters, and how they interacted, and their experiences and lives. But what happens when Boromir dies? Does it really matter that he was there at all now that he's dead? What about his father? His brother? Do they stop caring after his death? Of course not!
So why would you claim that nothing up to this point matters anymore after so-and-so died?
THE LASTING IMPRESSION
It doesn't matter that you lied to Hershel? It doesn't matter that you told Clementine her parents are probably dead? It doesn't matter that you told Larry to go fuck himself? Why on earth would you ever think that?
These are people. They feel emotion. They remember. They have pasts, and futures, and hopes and dreams. Yes, they're fictional, but in the context of the fiction, they're living, breathing people. Why, then, would everything they've done be pointless after they're dead or gone? Weren't you there? Didn't you hear their voice, see their actions? Have you forgotten so quickly?
This goes back to the omniscience we're afforded by being allowed a "do-over" and being able to see every possibility. We start to become detached. The words lose their meaning. It becomes all about the outcome. And that's tragic. I'm truly sorry to each and every one of you that have lost meaning in this story. You've been cheated out of something truly beautiful.
THE REAL BEAUTY
This is what separates the people constantly complaining about the game and those who can truly appreciate it. You have to be able to step out of your world for a moment, and place yourself in this one. You begin to truly feel the emotion, to appreciate the beauty of this world. You laugh in the happy times, and you mourn the loss of those you held dear. Your pulse races as you try to make it to Clementine before something terrible happens. You're hurt when a former friend loses their trust in you, and enraged that people can be so callous, or so stupid.
This isn't like your average game. Success isn't measured by how many people you saved, or how many you killed. It simply isn't about making it to the end. You've heard it time and time again: This is about the journey. And if you get caught up in trying to reach a certain point, you lose sight of the beauty around you.
So no. You can't change everything. But in the end, who can? You argue that, with no control over the outcome, what's the point? I ask you the exact opposite. If we control every outcome, what's the point? Life has meaning because we know it will end one day. So we appreciate what we have. We try to do our best within our means. Just like this game.
Remember: You'll only ever get out of it what you put into it.
A THANK YOU
I'd like to take this moment to thank Telltale Games, Robert Kirkman, and the various people involved with the realization of this story exactly as it is. It's tragic, it's exciting, it's frustrating and entirely beautiful. I've fallen in love with everything, the good and the bad. Words can't describe how excited I am to see the end, and to have experienced this wonderful world.
DISCLAIMER: This thread's purpose is to defend The Walking Dead game and voice my appreciation for the work the creators have put into this, and continue to support. Everything here is my opinion, and doesn't speak for anyone else. No insult was meant, but of course if you feel insulted, I won't apologize. This is truly how I feel, and to tell you otherwise would be wrong. If you still feel cheated in some way, take a step back and ask "Why?"
I understand that I may have taken this a little too seriously, but sometimes you have to go overboard to get your point across. Also, I apologize for the rambling nature of this post, or if anything seems incoherent. I'm not the best at this sort of thing, but thought I'd give it a shot.
Long-winded, snotty, entitled, dismissive, your post has it all!
There's no point attempting to penetrate the sheer bloviation of your post; your disinterest in honest debate makes that pointless. There is, though, one paragraph particularly evincing your bad faith:
""Live with the profound and lasting consequences..."
Before we can really get into this, we need to understand that these words are subjective. Everyone will have a different meaning for "profound" and "lasting consequences." I believe this is where most people take exception, possibly due to high standards, or maybe just trying to justify why they don't like the game."
So, when in doubt, resort to that tired, cheap rhetorical device, that "words are subjective". In other words, we can't really disagree with the ads, because we can never really agree on what words mean. There are no actual, meaningful definitions of words such as "profound", right? If only there was a book we could turn to, where the "definitions" of "words" were compiled such that we could consult them and figure out what things meant! If only!
Too, it can't be that anyone actually means what they say--instead, we get to undermine their intentions by asserting, well, they're only looking for reasons to argue. People dislike the game, but only ex post facto try to "justify" it.
I'm not sure why you'd take such trouble and go to such lengths without every actually debating a specific point by a specific poster, but it's sad. Sadder still is that you have a half dozen sock puppets agreeing with you.
I can only hope you'll eventually come to understand that it's possible to have a very mixed view of any given thing. That's the sign of intellectual development: The ability to hold conflicting ideas in mind without finding that conflict painful or having to eliminate that conflict. In this case, it's very much like the adult view of ones significant other, that they have good and bad qualities. It's childish to assert something complex is any one thing, and more childish still to try to dismiss the opinion of anyone who understands complexity, and knows that things are rarely only good or bad.
In truth, TTG has put out a seriously flawed game with an interesting narrative, very good voice acting, acceptable graphics, very poor mechanics, too many weak, forced choices, and a whole host of flaws worth discussing.
That you, specifically, are incapable of discussing those flaws says everything about you, and nothing about those unhappy with many aspects of the game, including its absurd advertising.
The problem I have is people think tailor is some broad word. To tailor something is to slightly adjust; that is what the game gives you. To make a comparison when you tailor a suit you make slight adjustments not change the suit into a completely new outfit. Likewise, the game doesn't make broad, changes that separate the story for long periods of time but it does slightly deviate at points for brief moments & gives you a personalized game based upon your dialogue decisions.
Also, hasn't it been confirmed that in episode 4 a culmination of our choices so far will effect a major event in the game? Maybe that will be the start of some slight branching seeing as the series is coming to a conclusion in the following episode.
These aren't choices I offer lightly, but the best that can be said of your claim that "To tailor something is to slightly adjust" is that you haven't even bothered to look up a single example definition of what it means to tailor. That makes you, at best, lazy. You're simply making this up because you want to pretend to prove a point. There's nothing "slight" implicit in tailoring.
This is the internet, buddy. When you simply make up utter nonsense, don't be surprised to be called on it.
In spite of what an earlier post claims, words do in fact have meanings and often, as in this case, precise meanings that people of good faith can readily agree on. Lazy or lying? That's no way to get through life, son.
What I don't get is, how long does this last? You get food, you're at a shelter (the motel), and you have to forage again, but not for awhile. You're basically sitting around in an enclosed space for 24 hours a day.
What do you do with all that time? Fret about death? Do you fret for months and years?
But let me ask a question about human nature: in what situation where survival was important did people stop thinking about sex? It's in our DNA to reproduce. That's what living organisms have to do to survive as a species. On the Savannah, with all kinds of nasty predators, which was probably worse than zombies that can basically be defeated with noise, it didn't stop people from having sex.
I don't know. I just don't understand your position.
It's probably because there's nothing--beyond basic prudishness--to understand.
It would be a richer storyline if some sex was involved. It would deepen relationships, make them more tense, more painful when they ended... That said, for some reason people find walking in on a man whose legs have been amputated crawling around the floor less objectionable in a game than walking in on a couple having intercourse.
That does make the characters and their interactions more shallow than if we were all emotionally a little more grown up. I can't think of any reason other than fear for insulting someone who thinks adding some sex to the game would make it more interesting. Of course it would.
Sex itself is not a big deal nor is it far fetched.
Had Carley survived, I wouldn't be surprised if her and Lee had sex toward the end of episode 3 or at most episode 4. However, besides Lee and Carley, there just aren't any other suitable couples in the group. Unless of course you wanted to see married sex between Katjaa and Kenny. Considering the circumstances, there is nothing wrong with having no sex in the game SO FAR.
Sex, of course, is a big deal. Nearly seven billion people agree. As for looking at the couples and the possibilities of coupling a priori, and then asserting there just aren't many possibilities, that's the decision of the writers, to all but eliminate possible couples and sexual possibilities. It would have been much more interesting, to bring sex and all that sex implies, including jealousy, into the various relationships.
Apparently there was a lot of sex in the London Underground when it was used for bomb shelters during WW2. Sex is definitely something people seek out and find time for no matter how dangerous the situation. The introduction of sex would have made the game itself more interesting Forgoing it is like forgoing the search for food, or the desire to shelter Clem from the worst of the ZA, or refusing to include the element of banditry in the game. Every significant, potential element the gamemakers decline to include makes the game that much less interesting.
I still enjoy the narrative, but the lack of any real sexual element is distinctly odd, particularly in a game that hews towards the realistic.
In any game that isn't a sandbox RPG, A and G and Q and Z are set in stone. All of the other letters you can choose if they're upper or lower case. You still go through the alphabet and might be able to do S before R, but G and Q and Z will always happen because one story is being told. If you want a game where you can do anything, you're better off playing a Choose Your Own Adventure or Skyrim.
A game where you can fully dictate the events as a god (as was just said) is not feasible at the time. We're just past the point of the illusion of choice and are getting into the idea where you can tell one story with variations (different textures based on a psychiatrist's questions, one person swapped with another, a different set of gear, or in extreme situations an alternate path). Name a game where there are fully branching paths with multiple, mutable endings and events completely independent of the story wholly exclusive to your choices where everything is truly tailored to your choices. It's not Heavy Rain. It's not Mass Effect. It's not this game. It's only available as text thus far.
You're demanding more from a genre that's barely put on training wheels. Wait for it to reach puberty before you ask why it doesn't have boobs, to use a horrible analog.
Point by point:
In any game that isn't a sandbox RPG, A and G and Q and Z are set in stone.
All of the other letters you can choose if they're upper or lower case. You still go through the alphabet and might be able to do S before R, but G and Q and Z will always happen because one story is being told.
***Everyone is aware this is how games work. No one has suggested otherwise.
If you want a game where you can do anything, you're better off playing a Choose Your Own Adventure or Skyrim.
***No one has complained that they're not getting a game where they "can do anything". No one here is asking for that. We're all well aware we're in as limited a gameworld as it's possible to make. In fact, the only way you could limit character movement more would be to restrict everyone to the same sidewalk.
A game where you can fully dictate the events as a god (as was just said) is not feasible at the time.
***No one here has said they think that's feasible. No one here has said they expect it. It would take a while to find a single quote anywhere on this forum where someone even comes close to expecting that.
We're just past the point of the illusion of choice and are getting into the idea where you can tell one story with variations (different textures based on a psychiatrist's questions, one person swapped with another, a different set of gear, or in extreme situations an alternate path).
***No one here thinks we're further along than this.
Name a game where there are fully branching paths with multiple, mutable endings and events completely independent of the story wholly exclusive to your choices where everything is truly tailored to your choices.
***No one claims such games exists.
It's not Heavy Rain. It's not Mass Effect. It's not this game. It's only available as text thus far.
***It's not even available as text, thus far. In any case, no one here thinks the two games you cited comprise "a game where there are fully branching paths with multiple, mutable endings and events completely independent of the story wholly exclusive to your choices where everything is truly tailored to your choices."
You're demanding more from a genre that's barely put on training wheels. Wait for it to reach puberty before you ask why it doesn't have boobs, to use a horrible analog
***It's both a horrible analogy and a complete misapprehension of everything that's been written in this thread. You've imagined straw man after straw man after straw man; it's hard to imagine you're not aware of that. There could have been an interesting dialogue on the issue of choice. The problem is, TTGs reps are unwilling or unable to talk about it, and people like you can't seem to address the genuine problems with it, preferring instead to simply make up imaginary issues.
In any event, no one would be talking at length about choices and their ramifications if TTG hadn't flogged it as a singular virtue of their game. They have only themselves to blame. No one complained about a lack of choice in Left4Dead because the makers didn't sell it claiming it was a choice game. Very few people minded the extreme monorail aspect of the Half-Life games because Valve sold those games as brilliant examples of that kind of game, and not as something other than what they were.
A more apt analogy would be, TTG seems like that guy who keeps trying to fix you up with his sister, but seems ashamed of the fact that she's simply pleasant, ordinary looking, and has a nice voice. Instead, he tells you she's incredibly hot, and smarter than any woman you've ever met--so, when you meet her, he just comes across as a liar with an inferiority complex. Everything would have been fine, and you would have had nice a little dinner with her, but instead the evening gets unaccountably weird and uncomfortable all because he couldn't tell you the truth.
Is anybody disappointed with the game so far? The game not the story. I believe the story is very well written, and I'm thoroughly enjoying that part of the game, but the game itself is extremely frustrating.
I have played episode 1, 2 and 3 and my decisions don't seem to mean anything. When I first loaded the game I felt my decisions would make a difference, but apart from saving Carley or Doug I feel helpless. It's like going through a game supposedly giving you the freedom to make vital decisions and changes but the outcome still being the same, extremely disappointing.
I don't know if you guys ever had the chance to play Heavy Rain on the PS3, but that's a game Tell Tale should have been creating. A game where decisions count for something. A game where one wrong move and you can die and be written out of the game. A story that had like 5 possible endings and changes in the plot if you made bad choices. This is what I was hoping for when I bought The Walking Dead. I bought the game because I'm a fan of the TV series, but I was expecting more from the game.
I have been in several situations on the game where I have wanted to make a difference but couldn't as the game appears to be too linear and forcing your hand on many things. I would have loved to have made a difference without these silly "Appreciation hints" and the following person dying 10 seconds later unexpectedly.
Instead of just building up a strong relationship with some of the characters, you should be able to make sure they stay alive as well without the decision being made for you. If that means a slight change in the plot with the characters you like surviving so be it, I just feel Tell Tale have been lazy and created a very short gaming experience without you being able to do a thing to prevent character deaths.
Please don't get me wrong I am enjoying it as a whole to a certain extent but I was hoping for so much more hence the rant. I would have just loved to be able to make a valuable difference without feeling helpless.
This is a terrific post that deserved to be repeated. It also made me think of at least one way TTG could have created more meaningful choices, and that's by allowing you to save one person as opposed to another, but without the person you save necessarily staying with the group for long.
Let's say I save Carley instead of Doug, but then not long after Carley decides to go off by herself or with someone we run into that perhaps she knew before? It's in the nature of a narrative "trick", to allow me to save whom I choose, but then avoid too much branching by having the character venture off on her own. It works, though, while also giving the player the emotional satisfaction of seeing the player they saved survive. It wouldn't be all that difficult to arrange a brief meeting an episode or two later, and get the satisfaction of hearing the story of Carley's adventures in the time you've been apart. That's an easy thing to write, and her story can be intense and engaging while also giving you a further emotional payoff. It also gives you at least two more scenes with Carley (or whomever you saved) than the personb who saves Doug gets, making your experience of the game that much different.
TTG's mistake was in part due to making the consequences of your choices routinely not very meaningful in the sense of the follow up. As someone noted above, it's even as preposterous as "X notes that you said that"; when five seconds later, X dies. So, part of the problem isn't that we have unreasonable expectations, it's that TTG hasn't done a good job with what is POSSIBLE, given the limitations of time and computing power.
***No one has complained that they're not getting a game where they "can do anything".
Sorry, I have seen people unaware of the current progress in games like these. From your posts, I think you're slightly more in line with a realistic idea of where technology stands, but you don't seem to know the history of this board as well as I do. People want to be fully in control of who lives and dies and have everything - EVERYTHING - be of their choice. They do want a CYOA-like experience. So, nothing against your stance; this isn't a post that was directed towards moderates.
A more apt analogy would be, TTG seems like that guy who keeps trying to fix you up with his sister, but seems ashamed of the fact that she's simply pleasant, ordinary looking, and has a nice voice. Instead, he tells you she's incredibly hot, and smarter than any woman you've ever met--so, when you meet her, he just comes across as a liar with an inferiority complex. Everything would have been fine, and you would have had nice a little dinner with her, but instead the evening gets unaccountably weird and uncomfortable all because he couldn't tell you the truth.
I appreciate all analogies, but you exaggerate just a bit. It's more like "Have you seen my sister? She's a rich doctor!" Then you find out she just started college. "What, I mean she will be. Trust me, bro."
I really can't help you out here, don't preorder something if you're not sure what you are getting. Wait for the game to come out, take a read, take a look, and then decide.
I'm waiting for WarZ right now, but I will probably not preorder as I am just not sure how it will turn out, and what the playerbase will be like.
If I don't like it when I've taken a closer look, I will not buy it... simple thing.
Beautiful.
So the advice is, "Hey, just because we cheated you out of 25 bucks the first time, don't be so stupid as to let us cheat you out of 25 bucks the next time!"
Personally I don't understand all the grief people are giving this game so far.
I do concern it tailored in the sense of, the answers I can give in certain situations are exactly the answer I would give if that situation would be posed to me in real life.
I like the writing, I like the characters, the voicing the pace.
What I've read in this topic so far are unreal expectations for a low budget game. Which in my opinion beats a lot of storytelling of high-budget games.
I am really enjoying my purchase so far, I can't wait for the next episode. I don't understand all the issues most of you seem to have with this game.
Okay let me ask everyone who thinks this game doesn't have choices. Do you expect every choice you make to change the game entirely? That if you side with Kenny you go to Fort Lauderdale, and if you side with Lilly you go to Savannah?
If you choose Carly or Doug they stay alive forever because you saved them once?
If you let Clem die at any point you continue the story without her?
If somehow Lee dies in the game, you take over one of the other characters and play through them?
Do you know how many different stories Telltale would have to write? These are just some examples, but there are hundreds, if not thousands of different ways for the game to go. Just because you don't have a tailor specific story to go by (Ex: you would rather walk than take the train) doesn't mean the game isn't any good!
You have plenty of choices within the game:
Decide to wait for night with clem
Shawn or Duck
Doug or Carly
Chop teachers leg off or not
Choose to side going to dairy or not
Choose to undo skrews from locked door in barn
Stopping clem in time from eating
Killing the brothers
Taking the food
If you chose Carly you can confess, if Doug you cant
Choose to be aggressive or passive with the bandits in a dialogue
Leave or take Lilly
Choose how you react to Chuck
You don't even need to bring Duck water
Fight Kenny or talk him down
Decide who shoots Duck (r.i.p)
Push Omid
Omid of Christa
These are just a few choices.
While these choices don't change how the Story goes (as in "I'm not getting on the train") but changes how everyone in the group reacts to you. Kenny can treat you like a piece of shit, or he can be your best friend. The point is to those who have a problem with choices, this isn't enough for you? And the game isn't even over, I'm sure Telltale will have multiple endings to the game based on all these choices at the end of episode 5.
first of all don't need a new thread for every new smartass. Just use the collective thread we are all using.
And if someone gives me a board with 2 buttons to press, red or green but both are wired to the same cable then why the heck did it matter what button I pushed in the first place.
first of all don't need a new thread for every new smartass. Just use the collective thread we are all using.
And if someone gives me a board with 2 buttons to press, red or green but both are wired to the same cable then why the heck did it matter what button I pushed in the first place.
Have you seen the ending of the game? How do you know they are wired to the same thing?
And thanks, I do consider myself a smartass- its a compliment really.
Comments
Corporate suck-up. Nuff said.
Ad Hominem attack due to inability to respond to the actual content of the post. 'nuff said.
Didn't actually read anything. Except for Marvel comics in the 90s. "Nuff said"? More like I don't have anything original to say.
Give him time, in the years to come he will play much greater games and be met with so many more greater disappointments. He too, will come to learn the mysterious ways of video game marketing
Err? Name me a single choice that was lasting. I can't find a single one. Except for stealing the supplies+making clem take the hoodie = she STILL wears it.
Everything else, is absolutely and clearly NOT lasting.
I like how you say "They are. No argument there." Without giving a single example, lol. I looked back at all choices, and each and every single one is nullified by the end of EP3, except for the hoodie.
Heck even the dialogue options aren't lasting. I told Clem in EP1 clearly and headon that I murdered someone and when I told her (again) in EP3 she acts like I never told her in the first place being all disappointed and sad. Wtf is up with even dialog not being remembered?
I did a playthrough where I was 100% honest, in the drug store office when you pick "I killed someone' they wont even let him say it...he sugar coats even worse than the 'I did a bad thing' option.
Err no she knew 100% in EP1.
Here is exactly what happened in my playthrough:
Entering the Office. Carley 3ft away from Clementine openly saying I killed the Senator.
After moving Table: I chose the option "I killed someone". Lee says:I ki.... got into a fight once, it ended really badly.
When leaving the room clementine says: "That lady said you killed someone. Was that because he was one of the things?" Me: No he wasn't
Her: "Oh. Was he bad?". Lee: "He was".
So yes that is 100% her knowing that I killed someone (not a zombie). first from hearing from Carley and then again twice by me (one at the table that was "sugar coated") and then again at the door straight forward truth.
YET!!! At EP3 when I tell her "again" she acts completely as if she never knew.
You don't see threads praising the game? Perhaps because you are looking for negative posts to hop into and make posts like this in. Face it nice posts are fine and dandy, but negative are far more interesting...People tend to gravitate towards the negative so that they can "correct" people who are so obviously mistaken as to be unhappy. Or perhaps just to share their own displeasure with the game.
Beat on that straw man...I find it amusing.
No one expects 50 million branches depending on their choices, and if they do why are you listening to them? They are crazy. The thing is a lot of the choices in this game are completely negated usually within minutes of making them. This helps kill the illusion of choice.
Actually most people have pointed out that the marketing is less than accurate. Thats pretty close to saying lying, but its not the picture you paint of children running around screaming "You lied to me! I hate you!". And nice job trying to clump everyone together to make it easier to defend your position.
And what you've said here is that it is a matter of opinion whether something is profound or it has a lasting consequence. This is true...it is a matter of opinion. For some simply having someone mention a decision you made is enough. While others expect...well..something more profound.
No one can argue that eh? Isn't that exactly what has been argued? But you saying it can't be clears all that up.
I would argue that the decisions have not been important. They have little to no affect on the story and they are often negated very quickly. I will say the decisions have been given the perception of importance in the moment you are given the choice(and they do a very good job here)....Though its usually right after that you are like "oh it didn't even matter".
Its this realization that has people disappointed. When you lose that illusion of choice it kind of kills a story that is supposed to be based on your choices. For some people they lost that illusion earlier and for others it took some time. This is why you see people attacking various choices such as the carley/doug thing...Its not so much about that specific choice, but it was that choice that made them lose that illusion of choice.
There are plenty of people who have 1 play through with no rewinds that are disappointed with the choices. I am one of them. Yes the ability to do so is part of what is driving people batty, but its only a side effect of what I was speaking about. When people lose that illusion of choice they want it back. They will go back and try different routes to see if perhaps something will happen differently. The thing is this game is pretty linear and they find this out when they do the other play throughs. This only further shows them how little their choices truely matter....
So yes this is something that gets people upset, but not for the reason you are saying. Also you really need to stop comparing people who are unhappy with children...We can't be logical adults and be unhappy? I realize you say "not everyone" but thats more of a defensive stand point incase you get called on it. You are attacking people with a different view on a matter based on their view. Even if it is the extremists you are talking about it does not add anything to your arguement.
I've already expressed my view on this.
You try to twist words here but kind of fail if anyone looks closely at what you are saying. You actually kind of defend people who are unhappy here. This IS one of the things people harp on...They do not feel it is their story. They just express it differently.
So you are comparing apples and supposedly oranges here? Yes the story telling elements are similiar, but there are key differences. Namely the fact that this is supposedly an interactive story... I feel you are off base with whatever point you are trying to make here. Most people are not complaining about the story itself...
So you are trying to compare the death of a character in a book to the death of a character in this game. Where one of your choices was to save this person and people clung onto that choice as their "profound and lasting" part of the game? You seriously can't see why people are upset?
Again you miss the entire point. People are looking for their "profound and lasting consequences" and in doing so they are picking apart every choice in the game. When they are not finding something that seems profound or lasting to them they get upset and attack the choices that have no meaning. Lets face it a lot of the choices have no meaning...carry no weight in the game...and as I said are often negated.
It sounds like you are looking at the game like a book or a graphic novel. And because of this you are completely happy with what you have been given. And thats great...Good for you. I am truely 100% happy that you feel this way and feel you've gotten what you have paid for.
The thing is I expected more than a story. I expected an interactive game that tells a story that I can influence. I look at the interactive side of the game and I feel that them constantly negatating my choices pulls me out of it. I feel that the story is just meh and fairly predictable. I feel that the new characters were shoved down my throat in a way that I found hard to believe. These are just a few of my gripes...
So theres a number of reasons I am less than happy about this game. Do I expect you to feel the same way? No, because its all a matter of opinion. Do I expect you to respect my views on the matter? Absolutely.
I get it you like the game. That does not mean you need to change everyones mind that does not. That doesn't mean that people who don't like it are children.
I read your post and no matter how you phrase it "Negating my choices" it all goes back to "Omg, I'm not a god, my choices do not actually change everything and everybody, so the game does not deliver".
The thing is that even in real life it is really difficult, sometimes almost impossible to change or affect people like Lilly and Kenny. You might try, but I'm telling you that it won't be easy and you will most likely fail.
People like Katjaa, Carley/Doug, Ben and most of the minor characters as a whole are much easier to reason with and you may really affect them or convince them of something. Lilly and Kenny are not that type of people, so they'll often do whatever they feel is right, disregarding your opinion. That doesn't mean that your opinion doesn't matter or the choice you make is irrelevant just because you didn't change anything.
I draw an inner strength from the rage and salty rivers.
So because I want some of my choices to matter and have a lasting consequence in the game I'm being unreasonable is what you are saying? Stop attacking that straw man for a second...I'm not sitting here saying every decision has to matter or last. I'm not saying "boo boo I'm not god"...I'm saying EVERY choice is obviously negated....and it is done so shortly after you make the choice that it feels cheap. Its obviously done so quickly so they don't have to have variations in the story, but to negate them directly after making them? That is just lazy...
The only exception here is the Doug/carley choice...The thing is those characters were tucked away till they were done away with. Why save them if there is going to be no real character interaction? I don't even understand how people got so attached to them with how little interaction you had.
TTG's marketing department sold you a dream and you bought it. I bet you wont make that mistake again.
He has basically no arguments and either goes completely offtopic talking about things that have nothing to do with the game's choices or -what seems like by far his favorite style of 'argumentation'- always calling everyone a child, a crybaby and totally exaggerating and completely falsifying his 'oppositions' statements to a point of ridiculousness.
Logical and objective arguments do not help against those type of people.
Your best bet is to ignore and wait for more intellectual participants on the discussion.
TheWildcard's post is a perfect example of reasonable discussion.
And what most people don't seem to understand: When people like me argue about being disappointed by the ineffectiveness or even sheer 'sterile' decisions it doesn't mean that we think the game completely sucks. It just means that in this specific aspect that is being discussed which this topic has been created for the game seems to fail on a lot of us.
eh...its just weird how his posts sounds like nit-pick trolling while yours sound like constructive criticism. I guess it's all in the wording.
Oh, thank you, dubesor. I can see you're a sweet, kind and mature person.
If you've read the previous posts as you claim, you would've noticed that I've been answering posts like yours with lots of argumentations. I'm not gonna repeat myself over and over and over again just because some people are too lazy to go back and read what we've discussed.
Feel free to ignore my posts from now on! I don't want to be held responsible for the unfortunate "pleasure" you're getting from them.
TheWildcard, your post is a perfect example of things that were already posted and answered by a lot of people.
I'm sorry if you take my lack of argumentation as a personal insult.
I guess you should wait for... as dubesor puts it "more intellectual participants on the discussion" because I'm really tired of saying the same stuff over and over again.
I've made this point already, and there have been awesome points clearly laying out what's going on: nobody is going to read them. This discussion board isn't about discussion, no one's hear to learn anything. No, we're a chemical mixture that creates chaos. We just shake each other up and call each other names like "whiner", "fanboy" and insults.
Here's the bottom line: the choices ARE limited, the ending will have at most five splits and different endings, technology and production won't allow for the true Choose Your Own Adventure gameplay some expect, and people on forums don't read anything before they post their own opinions.
This discussion seems rather moot considering the game is only half over.
You can check that. When you go to the main The Walking Dead Story Discussion - SPOILERS, next to the name of the topic (the the left actually) it should say how many posts you have in the thread
This sums up 28 pages right here, but people will bypass it to put their .02 in.
People really expected this to play like Heavy Rain??
But it's not, and here's the best part, instead of them taking that for what it is, you're now the TTG lackey fanboi whatever...
Can you imagine how much more quiet the boards would be if they had a 'complaints and issues' forum- Im surprised it hasnt been implemented in other game forums before this.
It would allow people who actually like the game to talk with others who do and allow those who have issues to feed off each other's contempt for it.
Neither side would have to deal with each others labels (fanboi, whiner, lackey, crybaby, etc) and everybody could have their say
I invite you to read the description of the game on steam... in french ! (yes, i'm french) The word "tailored" is translate by "custom"... Now, can you see why i'm upset ? If this a mistake, it's a big one... In french our choices "affect the story through the series" and so on... it's just a F...ing big exaggeration !
Well... This discussion will last until the end of the game, and to be honest, i don't care anymore. I thinked TWD was really a great game, but now, i'm tired to argue when all the response i have are "it's TWD world, deal with it" or "all you want it's to bang Carley"or "Suck it, whiners." or "you are not a god" or "In real life, you can't control everything"... It's a game, not real life... I give up with you guys, and i will never have a response to the question in my signature...
BUT several of my choices already matters: I discourage buying the game NOW (until i see the end and how the story is "customised " by my choices) and if the story is not custom, i will consider Tellatale being a society that greatly exaggerate what they can actually do. Perhaps it's a PR mistake but it does not come from me and and it is still not corrected or amended on Steam, so, after that, if a season 2 come, i will play it... but i will never buy it (i think it's clear no ?).
Dude! My post doesn't say any of your quotes! Seriously, read mine! There's far more arguments than that. What post are you even referring to? Vain hasn't posted since a whole page ago.
In any case, none of the choices in Episode 1 have any meaning as of the end of Episode 3. You really need to either a) do better, or b) stop pretending choice is particularly meaningful.
a) your inability to make clearcut moral choices results in Clem's death. The St. Johns have been following you at a distance and your decision not the kill them in E2 allow them to take their ultimate revenge. You will forever carry your sorrow, alone, into the ZA
b) your attempts to shield Clem from the realities of the ZA have rendered her unable to recognize danger and fully defend herself. As a result she has just been bitten a zombie and your choices are now to i) shoot her, or ii) watch her turn
c) your willingness to show Clem exactly what it takes to survive allows her to kill the final zombie on the dock and let both of you escape safely to sea. Bravo!
Long-winded, snotty, entitled, dismissive, your post has it all!
There's no point attempting to penetrate the sheer bloviation of your post; your disinterest in honest debate makes that pointless. There is, though, one paragraph particularly evincing your bad faith:
""Live with the profound and lasting consequences..."
Before we can really get into this, we need to understand that these words are subjective. Everyone will have a different meaning for "profound" and "lasting consequences." I believe this is where most people take exception, possibly due to high standards, or maybe just trying to justify why they don't like the game."
So, when in doubt, resort to that tired, cheap rhetorical device, that "words are subjective". In other words, we can't really disagree with the ads, because we can never really agree on what words mean. There are no actual, meaningful definitions of words such as "profound", right? If only there was a book we could turn to, where the "definitions" of "words" were compiled such that we could consult them and figure out what things meant! If only!
Too, it can't be that anyone actually means what they say--instead, we get to undermine their intentions by asserting, well, they're only looking for reasons to argue. People dislike the game, but only ex post facto try to "justify" it.
I'm not sure why you'd take such trouble and go to such lengths without every actually debating a specific point by a specific poster, but it's sad. Sadder still is that you have a half dozen sock puppets agreeing with you.
I can only hope you'll eventually come to understand that it's possible to have a very mixed view of any given thing. That's the sign of intellectual development: The ability to hold conflicting ideas in mind without finding that conflict painful or having to eliminate that conflict. In this case, it's very much like the adult view of ones significant other, that they have good and bad qualities. It's childish to assert something complex is any one thing, and more childish still to try to dismiss the opinion of anyone who understands complexity, and knows that things are rarely only good or bad.
In truth, TTG has put out a seriously flawed game with an interesting narrative, very good voice acting, acceptable graphics, very poor mechanics, too many weak, forced choices, and a whole host of flaws worth discussing.
That you, specifically, are incapable of discussing those flaws says everything about you, and nothing about those unhappy with many aspects of the game, including its absurd advertising.
These aren't choices I offer lightly, but the best that can be said of your claim that "To tailor something is to slightly adjust" is that you haven't even bothered to look up a single example definition of what it means to tailor. That makes you, at best, lazy. You're simply making this up because you want to pretend to prove a point. There's nothing "slight" implicit in tailoring.
This is the internet, buddy. When you simply make up utter nonsense, don't be surprised to be called on it.
In spite of what an earlier post claims, words do in fact have meanings and often, as in this case, precise meanings that people of good faith can readily agree on. Lazy or lying? That's no way to get through life, son.
It would be a richer storyline if some sex was involved. It would deepen relationships, make them more tense, more painful when they ended... That said, for some reason people find walking in on a man whose legs have been amputated crawling around the floor less objectionable in a game than walking in on a couple having intercourse.
That does make the characters and their interactions more shallow than if we were all emotionally a little more grown up. I can't think of any reason other than fear for insulting someone who thinks adding some sex to the game would make it more interesting. Of course it would.
Apparently there was a lot of sex in the London Underground when it was used for bomb shelters during WW2. Sex is definitely something people seek out and find time for no matter how dangerous the situation. The introduction of sex would have made the game itself more interesting Forgoing it is like forgoing the search for food, or the desire to shelter Clem from the worst of the ZA, or refusing to include the element of banditry in the game. Every significant, potential element the gamemakers decline to include makes the game that much less interesting.
I still enjoy the narrative, but the lack of any real sexual element is distinctly odd, particularly in a game that hews towards the realistic.
Point by point:
In any game that isn't a sandbox RPG, A and G and Q and Z are set in stone.
All of the other letters you can choose if they're upper or lower case. You still go through the alphabet and might be able to do S before R, but G and Q and Z will always happen because one story is being told.
***Everyone is aware this is how games work. No one has suggested otherwise.
If you want a game where you can do anything, you're better off playing a Choose Your Own Adventure or Skyrim.
***No one has complained that they're not getting a game where they "can do anything". No one here is asking for that. We're all well aware we're in as limited a gameworld as it's possible to make. In fact, the only way you could limit character movement more would be to restrict everyone to the same sidewalk.
A game where you can fully dictate the events as a god (as was just said) is not feasible at the time.
***No one here has said they think that's feasible. No one here has said they expect it. It would take a while to find a single quote anywhere on this forum where someone even comes close to expecting that.
We're just past the point of the illusion of choice and are getting into the idea where you can tell one story with variations (different textures based on a psychiatrist's questions, one person swapped with another, a different set of gear, or in extreme situations an alternate path).
***No one here thinks we're further along than this.
Name a game where there are fully branching paths with multiple, mutable endings and events completely independent of the story wholly exclusive to your choices where everything is truly tailored to your choices.
***No one claims such games exists.
It's not Heavy Rain. It's not Mass Effect. It's not this game. It's only available as text thus far.
***It's not even available as text, thus far. In any case, no one here thinks the two games you cited comprise "a game where there are fully branching paths with multiple, mutable endings and events completely independent of the story wholly exclusive to your choices where everything is truly tailored to your choices."
You're demanding more from a genre that's barely put on training wheels. Wait for it to reach puberty before you ask why it doesn't have boobs, to use a horrible analog
***It's both a horrible analogy and a complete misapprehension of everything that's been written in this thread. You've imagined straw man after straw man after straw man; it's hard to imagine you're not aware of that. There could have been an interesting dialogue on the issue of choice. The problem is, TTGs reps are unwilling or unable to talk about it, and people like you can't seem to address the genuine problems with it, preferring instead to simply make up imaginary issues.
In any event, no one would be talking at length about choices and their ramifications if TTG hadn't flogged it as a singular virtue of their game. They have only themselves to blame. No one complained about a lack of choice in Left4Dead because the makers didn't sell it claiming it was a choice game. Very few people minded the extreme monorail aspect of the Half-Life games because Valve sold those games as brilliant examples of that kind of game, and not as something other than what they were.
A more apt analogy would be, TTG seems like that guy who keeps trying to fix you up with his sister, but seems ashamed of the fact that she's simply pleasant, ordinary looking, and has a nice voice. Instead, he tells you she's incredibly hot, and smarter than any woman you've ever met--so, when you meet her, he just comes across as a liar with an inferiority complex. Everything would have been fine, and you would have had nice a little dinner with her, but instead the evening gets unaccountably weird and uncomfortable all because he couldn't tell you the truth.
Let's say I save Carley instead of Doug, but then not long after Carley decides to go off by herself or with someone we run into that perhaps she knew before? It's in the nature of a narrative "trick", to allow me to save whom I choose, but then avoid too much branching by having the character venture off on her own. It works, though, while also giving the player the emotional satisfaction of seeing the player they saved survive. It wouldn't be all that difficult to arrange a brief meeting an episode or two later, and get the satisfaction of hearing the story of Carley's adventures in the time you've been apart. That's an easy thing to write, and her story can be intense and engaging while also giving you a further emotional payoff. It also gives you at least two more scenes with Carley (or whomever you saved) than the personb who saves Doug gets, making your experience of the game that much different.
TTG's mistake was in part due to making the consequences of your choices routinely not very meaningful in the sense of the follow up. As someone noted above, it's even as preposterous as "X notes that you said that"; when five seconds later, X dies. So, part of the problem isn't that we have unreasonable expectations, it's that TTG hasn't done a good job with what is POSSIBLE, given the limitations of time and computing power.
In any case, solid post.
Sorry, I have seen people unaware of the current progress in games like these. From your posts, I think you're slightly more in line with a realistic idea of where technology stands, but you don't seem to know the history of this board as well as I do. People want to be fully in control of who lives and dies and have everything - EVERYTHING - be of their choice. They do want a CYOA-like experience. So, nothing against your stance; this isn't a post that was directed towards moderates.
I appreciate all analogies, but you exaggerate just a bit. It's more like "Have you seen my sister? She's a rich doctor!" Then you find out she just started college. "What, I mean she will be. Trust me, bro."
So the advice is, "Hey, just because we cheated you out of 25 bucks the first time, don't be so stupid as to let us cheat you out of 25 bucks the next time!"
Swinish. Just swinish.
I do concern it tailored in the sense of, the answers I can give in certain situations are exactly the answer I would give if that situation would be posed to me in real life.
I like the writing, I like the characters, the voicing the pace.
What I've read in this topic so far are unreal expectations for a low budget game. Which in my opinion beats a lot of storytelling of high-budget games.
I am really enjoying my purchase so far, I can't wait for the next episode. I don't understand all the issues most of you seem to have with this game.
If you choose Carly or Doug they stay alive forever because you saved them once?
If you let Clem die at any point you continue the story without her?
If somehow Lee dies in the game, you take over one of the other characters and play through them?
Do you know how many different stories Telltale would have to write? These are just some examples, but there are hundreds, if not thousands of different ways for the game to go. Just because you don't have a tailor specific story to go by (Ex: you would rather walk than take the train) doesn't mean the game isn't any good!
You have plenty of choices within the game:
These are just a few choices.
While these choices don't change how the Story goes (as in "I'm not getting on the train") but changes how everyone in the group reacts to you. Kenny can treat you like a piece of shit, or he can be your best friend. The point is to those who have a problem with choices, this isn't enough for you? And the game isn't even over, I'm sure Telltale will have multiple endings to the game based on all these choices at the end of episode 5.
If you wait for the timer, you don't have to cut his leg off. The other student takes his place back at the motor inn and you leave the teacher there.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uqLlQsnqqA
And if someone gives me a board with 2 buttons to press, red or green but both are wired to the same cable then why the heck did it matter what button I pushed in the first place.
Have you seen the ending of the game? How do you know they are wired to the same thing?
And thanks, I do consider myself a smartass- its a compliment really.