[Spoilers - Ep. 3] In defence of Ben
Wasn't Ben just preventing the inevitable? Like Eagle hair is paraphrase as having said, "the second the dairy farm stopped bandits would get us instead".
If not for Ben, the bandits would've got us right at the end of ep. 2. Sure the secrecy was fucking stupid, but lee's no one to judge others for secrecy.
It's completely Lilly's fault really, if she hadn't started a gun fight with an army of bandits attracting an army of dead, everyone could got out of there at there own pace. Plus stealing's hardly punishable by death, she'd gone crazy. Was she still nuts later in the comic?
Also it was kind of inevitable doug/carley would've died they'd taken a bit of a backseat in the story.
And honestly what other choice was there, it was probably a deal made at gunpoint considering bandits and all. Plus we raided the entire pharmacy and it was time to leave any way.
Plus even if I were wrong in my opinion, the game should still have the decency to let me show it in game rather than forcing me to be an ass to Ben.
If not for Ben, the bandits would've got us right at the end of ep. 2. Sure the secrecy was fucking stupid, but lee's no one to judge others for secrecy.
It's completely Lilly's fault really, if she hadn't started a gun fight with an army of bandits attracting an army of dead, everyone could got out of there at there own pace. Plus stealing's hardly punishable by death, she'd gone crazy. Was she still nuts later in the comic?
Also it was kind of inevitable doug/carley would've died they'd taken a bit of a backseat in the story.
And honestly what other choice was there, it was probably a deal made at gunpoint considering bandits and all. Plus we raided the entire pharmacy and it was time to leave any way.
Plus even if I were wrong in my opinion, the game should still have the decency to let me show it in game rather than forcing me to be an ass to Ben.
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Comments
I agree with you, don't think he deserves all the hate he's getting... I am making him my new bro, since Doug sacrificed himself for Ben, and I actually think he has a lot of potential if he listens to Lee, I hope he sticks around and doesn't let me down. He seems to have a good nature, for me at least.
"Can we really kill Ben?
I did it because of the thread "Kill Ben Project", Personally it's a stupid project, you're killing a scared kid that was defended by Carley, she and Doug died protecting Ben.
It's a game, I know that, but the people who really like Carley and had a connection with her think she's the only human being here, they're willing to Kill Ben over her death.
I personally had a connection with Doug rather than Carley, at first i blamed Ben, but after thinking about it, It was mostly Lilly's fault, she didn't wanna leave the motel, she got pissed over stolen meds, she wanted to kill whoever took the supplies.
I hope if there's an option to save or leave Ben, the majority of the people would help Ben instead of leave him, otherwise i'm losing faith within the people who tried to do good.
I'm with you on this, in my Carley play I don't want to be "nice" to him anyway but on my Doug play I want to, but you can't. No matter what option you pick it comes off as being negative.
But to be honest it was pretty obvious that Ben was the one that was stealing. I just kinda hope they would give a better reason than "They said they had one of my classmates." If they went along the story line of he did it for the group to keep them safe.
Ben isn't the strongest of characters and i'm pretty sure he feels kinda useless. So that could've been his attempt at helping the group I guess. I probably would've had more respect for him if he did something like that.
Only if they let you tell him, which I'm thinking they wont.
Good lord man, next thing you'll be telling me he's the last survivor of Ep5.
If he gets away with the death of one group member and indirect death of Kenny's entire family scott free....I will be very /sadface
Ben would tell the group about the deal and everyone can discuss about it casually. The group as a whole should keep the deal going while finding out a plan. That plan should be fix the RV gather all of the goods into the RV and then escape. Hopefully Lilly wouldn't be a bitch about it and just leave. Then they just escape into the Van cutting off the Deal with the bandits, and be done with them.
Things would've gone a lot more smoothly if Ben told everyone about the deal. Anyways how is it Lilly's fault? Sure she shot the bandit but who knows she could've saved one of the survivors lives. Those bandits are crazy and coudl've shot any time. If anything I think Lilly helped, since there would be gunfire anyways.
That's a bad comparison. Lee's murdering someone has less an immediate impact on their lives then ciphering supplies secretly. Like Lilly said, one might get sick and with no medicine they could die. Telling or not telling about a murder conviction isn't really going to change the day to living situation.
Sadly, Ben is that type of guy who tends to make it to the end but causes many people's deaths.
That or completely redeem himself before he dies horrifically saving everyone.
I'm hoping for the latter, or some other non-typical option. We'll see how creative the writers are.
I could definitely see Kenny pulling a C.J. from the Dawn of the dead. He's got nothing left to live for and sacrifices himself for the group. I don't think Ben makes it to the end of the season.
Kenny's fire is gone - my conflicts with him up to this point, while I didnt agree with all of them, I could see his point of view (the defense of his family). I'm worried he's gonna be a shell of a man now - or worse, lose it and endanger the rest of us somehow
like one night just wake up 'eff this' opens the gates and walks out to meet death, while walkers pour in
Or shoots himself on watch, ringing the dinner bell for walkers
that kinda stuff
I don't think he's anything but an automaton at this point. The man is in shock, plain and simple.
...now after something brings him out of it... no way to tell.
Considering Lee is like "Don't you fucking dare tell Kenny what you did!" I doubt Lee is want to do the telling either.
I really don't get that, you really think Lilly would've let Ben off that lightly? She wanted to get rid of Ben from the beginning, he steps out of line, and she's definitely not gonna let him stay.
She was adamant in staying at the motel, Ben's bandit deal makes that basically impossible, that alongside the fact that kicking Ben out = Death + the fact Lilly's on edge from losing the only thing she has left, her dad, means there's no way she wouldn't kill Ben, she tried on the RV.
But here's the thing I really don't get, those of you who hate Ben because you lost Carley, why don't you hate Lilly not Ben? Lilly despised Carley, she basically shot Carley based on that one sassy comment. Also Carley was protecting Ben, she dies doing that and you aren't going to honour that, your going to defy Carley's wish to protect Ben. How do you look at the situation of Lilly vs. Ben by Carley, and then when she dies you side with her opponent not who she was defending? seriously WTH? Same goes for Doug too, but more on the side of Doug defending than being hated.
In the words of the great ChaoticMonki, Cry ~ "Ben, Doug gave his Life for you, that means your his replacement"
You just dont get it. Ben isnt hated because of the death of Carley. He is hated because of the ripple effect he caused by not being open with the group that caused the death of 3 group members. It's clear you dont see this, but that's exactly how Ep 3 went down. And btw, I chose Doug, so it's not the loss of my e-girlfriend if that's what you're thinking
There is something in your thinking about Lily that clouds you from seeing this I think.
Maybe because if Ben hadn't been stealing to begin with then Carley would be alive. I'm sure Carley didn't even know that Ben was stealing and was sticking up for him based upon the "innocent until proven guilty" approach. Fact: If Ben doesn't do what he did, or comes to the group with his plan then none of what went down, goes down. Ben IS the reason that the group lost three people. I hope Kenny rips his head off.
If you're part of a group, and someone else steals from that group, especially stuff that might keep a member of that group alive. It's like they're killing the group.
If you're part of a group, he's stealing from YOU.
Are you really going to let that slide?
If it were me, I'd have Sparta-Kicked his ass into a horde.
Maybe it's her E-vajayjay
Guess what coincided with the bandits not attacking? That's right, Ben giving them some meds.
Here's an interesting twist in all of this. If you talk to Ben while he's on guard duty he tells you straight up, "I'm terrified of Lilly." That's why he didn't talk about it. Because he knew Lilly would kill him.
Oh, wait, that's exactly what she tries to do.
Nobody is missing Duck or Kat, right Kenny?
And absolutlely nobody is missing Carely, right TTG forums?
/Vader
I dont accept that he couldnt muster up the courage to blurt out one sentence. If not to Lily, tell Lee, tell Kenny-tell Clem to tell Lee...no, Im sorry he cant stay. He doesnt have to die, if they give us a choice in Ep4, he's gone.
Ben had been segregated from the group since the moment he arrived - the moment Lilly opened her mouth saying that he shouldn't even be there. As far as the reasons she lists against Ben in the RV (about him being the new guy, or a bandit "plant") I don't think she ever changed this toxic mindset.
Perhaps Ben would have behaved differently if he had been accepted into the group fully and had someone take him under their wing. In short, nobody trusted him, so why should he have trusted anybody else when the bandits told him that they had one of his friends? What could have possibly driven him to keep such a threat a secret, other than a belief that he was an outcast and that nobody would help him? And who perpetuated that belief?
He was sitting on the RV with a rifle in Ep3.
You don't give someone you don't trust a firearm.
heh, before I begin are you playing devil's advocate or serious?
Would you have done the same thing in his shoes?
To play the devil's advocate, you must seriously believe that your argument has some merit, or it wouldn't be worth bringing up.:D
In my honest opinion, I think Ben was in between a rock and a hard place. For one thing, he's pretty much a kid (DEFINITELY still in high school), and not much more mature than Clementine, and CERTAINLY not as mature or knowledgeable as the other adults. Next, he pretty much comes into the group with NOBODY, and with no skills/supplies to offer to "sweeten" the deal. He is relying solely on the kindness of these strangers who risked their lives to save him. What's the first impression our group gives him? That it's hostile to itself and to others, and that it's fractured and fumbling to survive. He doesn't have any time to come to any different conclusions, either, because following his arrival we immediately take a turn for the worse. Now we can add "poor judges of character" to that list above, as well as "weakened" (having just lost two adults at the St. John's Dairy. If I were Ben, I seriously wouldn't put too much stock in this group to protect me very well, let alone serve my interests (protecting a friend that I think may be in danger, for example).
That was pretty much Lilly's apathy. Kenny comments on that when he returns from gathering supplies. I doubt she would have ever let "the new guy, the bandit PLANT" anywhere near a gun if she had been in a better mental state. She was determined not to trust anyone at the camp, but she certainly didn't do anything to stop what happened.
Yeah, what he did was stupid. But what would you do in his situation? You've lost your best friend (presumably) and one of the few (the only?) authority figures left from your past life before being thrust into a completely strange group. You were more than likely partially at fault for both of your friends' deaths. You don't know anybody in this new group. A bandit approaches you, says that he has one of your friends, somebody that you might be able to save... if you give some away of these new guys' medicine.
As stupid as that is, as stupid as Ben was for not realizing that it was a mistake earlier, as stupid as Ben was for not ADMITTING it sooner so things might have gone smoother... yes, I can understand his intentions and I am not angry at him. I would have done the same thing. I would put the needs of people I know above people I don't know any day, and I think it's good that Ben is the same way. I doubt that choosing the group over somebody else will be an issue in the future; it's clear by now that Ben is the last from his former group, and he really doesn't want to piss off Lee more than he already has (especially considering Lee seems to be the only person to give him the light of day). And IIRC he lived in the opposite direction of Savannah, making it even more unlikely...
Also uh the game forced you to be an ass to Ben? I've managed to be fairly civil to him, considering the circumstances. Of course Lee's gonna be pissed right now, but I think he's a little more forgiving than most (if you play a certain way). Lee just acted shocked and told Ben to shut up in my main playthrough...
No, its to fight for the opposite point of view even when you know its wrong, for the sake of arguement, thats why its the Devil's advocate
Would you have done the same thing in his place?