An interesting plot twist would be to let the player decide between Ben's and Kenny's life/company in episode 4.
Ben betrayed the group and "killed" Carley/Doug (arguably even Duck and Katjaa), so many would probably choose him out of hatred, even though he would be the best material to form by your own thinking.
Kenny is believed to have a boat, which is not proven at all, and if you didn't side with him before, he won't move a finger to help you, so you'd be on your own... again.
This would be a tough choice for me, especially if they gave Ben something positive at hand before the choice.
if that happens I'll be very happy!
kenny in my game is my friend, after thinking a bit I would not kill Ben in cold blood, as Lilly did with Carley!
If I did that I would be like Lilly.E Carley die in vain, because she was trying to protect him from Lilly!
But if I had to choose between Ben and another character useful, I will not think 2 times.
But that part of the train in which he confesses that it was him, I threatened him!
From the perspective of human beings with the power of reason let's analyse Ben's situation fully:
0). Ben was in no position to refuse the Bandit's "Offer" due to stupidity and weakness.
1). Wouldn't throwing a kid out of the group alone in the zombie apocalypse without supplies be near-certain death?
2). Lilly wished to do precisely that to Ben from the beginning didn't she?
3). Was Lilly's sole reason for wanting to be rid of Ben was that he was an outsider?
4). Given Ben's general uselessness, wouldn't Lilly want Ben dead even more so?
5). Given Lilly's mental state, wouldn't any failure on Ben's part push Lilly to the point that she'd out right kill rather than death by banishment, as evident from what did occur?
6). Due to Lilly being adamant on staying at the motel even in the face of low supplies and the coming winter, wouldn't 5). not be a certainty if Ben's failure interfere with that desire?
7). Aren't Ben's comments on his fear of Lilly evidence enough that Ben is aware of the consequences of the previously described?
8). If the previous 7 are correct then what could Ben do? Options;
A). Tell someone who wouldn't kill him or do so by siding with Lilly. Sub-options;
I). Lee, One of Lee's reactions to Ben's confession is "I could kill you"... Also there are continuities were Lee is definitely on Lilly's side.
II). Kenny, Maybe but he seems to have a very low open of Ben, calling him an invitation to "rape our women and children", as well as "fucking stupid", I'm not seeing a bond of trust there.
III). Carley, Lilly despised Carley, were Lilly to think Carley was involved she's shot her in the face without evidence, believe me I know.
IV). Doug, I think this might be the best person to confess to, but Lilly still didn't have a high opinion of him either seeing as she pointed fingers at him too, also he's dead in most continuities so yeah.
V). Anyone else, Kaatja and the kids aren't exactly in position of power to actually help Ben any.
. Just leave in the middle of the night, Macon is nearly sapped dry, the region is full of bandits and walkers, he'd only be able to take a gun, some food and meds at most, and with no vehicle he's not gonna get to anywhere nicer. The only thing more dangerous for Ben than Lilly is the rest of the world.
C). Keep the deal going and hide it from everyone, Ben gets to live at least until he's discovered or if he's lucky something happens that means no one kills him.
D). Preemptively kill Lilly, what better way to prevent your death at Lilly's hands that to get rid of her before she gets you. Sub-options;
I). Just put a bullet in her brain consequences be damned, that would require Ben to have a fairly large pair and be risky as fuck. But if Lee and Kenny can get away with killing Larry who knows.
II). Make your position clear - Lilly leaves or Ben leaves, even if Ben had the balls to do this I get the feeling Ben would be the one to be kicked from the group. Again risky as fuck.
III). Have the Bandits do it, If Ben can make a deal for his friend's life then maybe he can for Lilly's but I don't see what Ben could give in return for it. Also can hardly get the deal off his shoulder if he has another for a group member's life.
IV). Lure her into a trap, getting Lilly eaten by zombies while Ben escapes would require more intelligence and skill than Ben possesses.
E). Fuck it all tell Lilly about the deal and take the bullet to the face, No, anyone who genuinely thinks this is an option is an unjustifiable moron or a purely selfless saint.
So, on which number lies the error in my thinking? Am I missing an option Ben could take?
9). If C). really was the only option Ben could take, then why is this his fault not the Bandits (or even Lilly's [but that's for my next post])?
Dude, you're really wanting to protect your Bro-mance. lol
Nah, I don't like Ben, I wished Lee, Carley, and Clem, could've left him with the rest of the group and been on our way. I liked Glenn and Mark too but they were very temporary characters. Also Kaatja and Duck are alright but I'm a big fan of Kenny so they're off limits. I don't like Lilly either. Larry would be okay if I wasn't Lee.
But my dislike of Ben isn't due to his deal with the bandits.
Nah, I don't like Ben, I wished Lee, Carley, and Clem, could've left him with the rest of the group and been on our way. I liked Glenn and Mark too but they were very temporary characters. Also Kaatja and Duck are alright but I'm a big fan of Kenny so they're off limits. I don't like Lilly either. Larry would be okay if I wasn't Lee.
But my dislike of Ben isn't due to his deal with the bandits.
While we dont agree on Ben and the Bandits, you've clearly addressed your points (in great detail), and your stance is unwavering. good show
No, I dont waste time on dead men walking. If he does speak of his parents then , I'll just have to take your word for that and apologize. So is that his new crutch then? Momma didnt hug him enough, lets love Ben more and hopefully he wont take out 50% of our team in Ep4?
Clearly we will have to agree to disagree here, I just dont understand how in a ZA, people would want that kind of weakness and stupidity in their group, he is a risk to all.
Well, there are two ways of looking at it. If you're looking at it from the survivability standpoint, then yes, Ben's dead weight and the sooner he's gone, the better.
But consider the moral standpoint. From that standpoint, it makes perfect sense to support Ben. He's not a bad person, he's just stupid. Contrast this with Lilly, who, sure, is more of an asset to the group, but is almost completely amoral, with her being perfectly willing to leave others to die or flat-out murder someone based on paranoia (if you saved Doug) or sheer petty egotism (if you saved Carley).
Actually, speaking of Carley, part of Carley's appeal was that she was the one espousing morality when everyone else was bickering about pragmatics and supplies. She's the one that risks her life to save the survivors she doesn't even know and defends her choice when confronted by Lilly. When arguing about whether or not mercy-killing the unnamed woman in episode 3 was the right thing, Carley was the only person who even considered "couldn't you try saving her?" Not pragmatic in the slightest, but moral. She's also the only one in the group who stands up for Ben when Lilly's being a paranoid bully. That's why Carley's a good character, not because she's hot or because she has a gun.
For my own stances, I'd pick Ben over Lilly in a heartbeat. Ben might be a liability, and a large one at that, but he's not a bad person - just an idiot. Lilly, on the other hand, is pretty flagrantly a worse human being. Consider the reactions they have after their respective screw-ups. Ben shows genuine remorse and guilt. Lilly? She doesn't. She breaks down and starts trying to justify her actions, and if you show her pity she betrays you the first chance she gets. So as stated earlier, Lilly might be more "useful" to the group, but if I care about humanity I'm gonna pick the humane option.
Now, you may say that such things don't really have a place in the Zombie Apocalypse. Well, you may be right. But personally I've always considered myself to be a sentimentalist.
Two very important words there: ZA and pragmatic. The two go hand in hand.
Yes, in today's world Lily is reprehensible. In a ZA, Lily is the leader you want.
She makes decisions for her group's well being; strangers are a no-no; suspect everyone-this is the right mentality for a ZA- where the humans are more dangerous than the walkers.
Ben, on the other hand, is walker food. You can see it in his eyes. You need strong people to survive the ZA; mentally even more than physically. He's weak in literally every sense of the word.
In today's world, Ben is probably that nice polite guy that minds his manners and everyone likes (or maybe doesnt even notice); in a ZA-1st wave of casualties.
She pawns responsibilities off to others because she can't take the pressure. She refuses to lift a finger to help anyone unless it's "what can they do for me?" She sits on her ass while everyone else does the work. She betrays everyone the moment it's clear she doesn't have power anymore. She never comes up with solutions to anything, which is something that Kenny is actually capable of and demonstrates multiple times.
Lilly is a terrible leader and a terrible human being. Great character, though.
She handed off the food job because Kenny was bitching. And because it's a game, to make the player do it.
That's pragmatism, why bring in unknown people who you can't feed? They might steal from you, kill you, and at the least weaken an already weak resource base.
She delegates, that's smart - one person can't do everything. Nor should they.
She didn't betray anyone, she wanted to punish a guilty party.
I can't believe I just defended Lilly like that lol
She didn't betray anyone, she wanted to punish a guilty party.
By way of flat-out murder. And killed the person who wasn't guilty. And with Carley's case it was out of nothing more than sheer, egotistical spite. Carley told her something she didn't want to hear, and Lilly murdered her for it. And the thing is, everything Carley said was completely true.
She was never an effective leader. She just wanted the power, and when that power was denied, she showed her true colors, either by completely breaking down and begging (you choose to leave her) or by betraying the group (you choose to let her stay).
I'm not denying that - but you have to look at things in context.
What she did was wrong, how she did it was wrong, but it wasn't a betrayal - it was an ill conceived witch hunt. Her reason was protection - but she was so far gone that the delivery was... horrible.
Speaking from canon; there really was no way of quelling her. That's who she is and there's really nothing any of us could have done to change that. She is a character filled with rage.
I hate to keep saying "It's a ZA, you have to expect it" But it really is the case.
Some people adapt, some fold, some crack.
And that's why I left the psychotic bitch by the side of the road.
Actually, this is getting off-topic. This would've been better suited for the "Team Lilly" thread. Though seriously, "Team Lilly"? What is this, Twilight?
Speaking from canon; there really was no way of quelling her. That's who she is and there's really nothing any of us could have done to change that. She is a character filled with rage.
And ironically, our actions - through Lee - may have filled her with it.
ben was stupid but that is no reason to kill him, that's all there is
haha took me a long while to arrive at that conclusion, but I agree
Kenny might not share those opinions
Be that as it may, he wont stay with my group a minute longer than needed.
Carley was my favorite NPC, Lilly was my second - and I left her without a second thought. She had gotten dangerous, despite her intentions.
Which is why I'll ghost Ben the first chance I get, unless he does something monumentally awesome for the group or at least Lee/Clem/Kenny.
Y'see, I'm not of the mindset of "I think I'll flat-out murder" (which is what some people on this forum have been directly saying) "leave someone for dead because they're an idiot." Sentimentalist, after all.
Story-wise, I figure that they're gonna do something with him like they did with Larry or Duck. He's not gonna get any heroics or stuff like that, but I'd be willing to bet that he gets something pretty damn personally tragic.
haha took me a long while to arrive at that conclusion, but I agree
Kenny might not share those opinions
Be that as it may, he wont stay with my group a minute longer than needed.
so were you on lilly's side during the argument in the RV? because to me it seemed like the whole idea was to convince everybody that she should kill him
Like I said before, I'm sure Ben is a nice guy and I think he's genuinely sorry for what he caused, but that doesn't change the fact that he did in 1 week what the walkers and bandits couldn't do in 2 months and destroyed half the group. While Lilly and Kenny didn't welcome him with open arms he was still allowed into the group and even trusted him with watch duty, but Ben never trusted the group in return nor showed any loyalty. He could've warned the group when the bandits first came to him with the deal but he didn't. He could've warned the group right before the bandits strolled into the motel but he didn't. In fact, Lee and Lilly are the only reasons Ben's naivety and cowardice killed only half the group instead of all of them. It might be nice to Ben to forgive him, but I don't think it's nice to Clementine or the rest of the group to keep a proven liability around and I hope Lee and Kenny give him the boot before Ben endangers anyone else.
so were you on lilly's side during the argument in the RV?
totally, in my playthrough I was the one who loaded the fresh clip and slipped it into the small of her back.
Then I said the words that triggered her rage:
"I dont like no hash!"
Next thing I knew- 'whoa- Carely/Doug, you alright?'
Lee and Lilly are the only reasons Ben's naivety and cowardice killed only half the group instead of all of them.
Lee and Lilly are also the reason the bandits attacked at all that day. Had Lee left the bag where he found it, the bandits would have come and gone, while the group hashed things out at the motor inn and decided what to do and maybe, just maybe, Lilly wouldn't have been so trigger happy.
Lee and Lilly are also the reason the bandits attacked at all that day. Had Lee left the bag where he found it, the bandits would have come and gone, while the group hashed things out at the motor inn and decided what to do and maybe, just maybe, Lilly wouldn't have been so trigger happy.
Lee and Lilly didn't even know about the deal because Ben said nothing and the supplies in that bag included medicine which is too valuable to just leave for no immediate reason. They didn't even know the bandits were still an issue, the group was lulled into a false sense of security because Ben did everything behind the group's back. IMO, there's no doubt that the group would be in much better shape if Ben wasn't found in Episode 2.
The mark on the wall, bag in the grate, the bandits haven't attacked in a few days... Lee's not dumb. He figured it out quickly enough when he had to keep the bandits talking. Obviously the quantity in the bag was not the bulk of their supplies or others would have noticed the count was off.
The mark on the wall, bag in the grate, the bandits haven't attacked in a few days... Lee's not dumb. He figured it out quickly enough when he had to keep the bandits talking. Obviously the quantity in the bag was not the bulk of their supplies or others would have noticed the count was off.
IMO, medicine is too important regardless of quantity to just leave and the bandits still wouldn't have been a problem if the watchman did his job instead of letting the bandits march right in. The motel was well-fortified and Lee's group already beat back previous attacks with no casualties. Lee retrieving the bag wouldn't have resulted in anything more than another futile bandit attack if Ben wasn't a traitor in addition to being a thief.
...wouldn't have been a problem if the watchman did his job instead of letting the bandits march right in.
Addressed in a previous post.
If the medical supplies were so important, why didn't Kenny grab the backpack of supplies when he grabbed the gun from Lilly's room and ran for the RV, tossing Lee the gun? The stupidity isn't all Ben's.
If you mean post 56 where you said, "Let's put a 17-year-old kid on watch and expect him to kill human beings in cold blood. That didn't work? Let's hold him accountable for the people who died as a result.", then, not really. The watchman's job first and foremost is to warn people when trouble's coming and if Ben's a pacifist (which we don't know and he never implied) then he could've told them and refused the job anyway. Also, if true, IMO this just further proves that if he has a problem with something, he's just too cowardly with everyone else to muster the guts to tell them which defeats the purpose of having him in the group, especially when he has already repeatedly demonstrated that he isn't responsible or trustworthy. The guy wants to stay in the group but hardly ever behaves like he's a member of it. Anyway, I think it's just time to agree to disagree here since I feel like we're starting to go in circles, but I just don't see a point in keeping in the group a guy that's near useless at the best of times and destroys half your group at the worst of times.
If the medical supplies were so important, why didn't Kenny grab the backpack of supplies when he grabbed the gun from Lilly's room and ran for the RV, tossing Lee the gun? The stupidity isn't all Ben's
No argument there, I knew Kenny couldn't be all that bright the moment I saw Duck.
...Ben would have been expecting the bandits to pick up and wouldn't be alarmed by them approaching the motor inn. What about Kenny sitting right there in front of the gate with his gun right beside him; the guy who complained about Ben being on watch to begin with? There is a great deal of shared responsibility in everything that happened.
Lee and Lilly are also the reason the bandits attacked at all that day..
...you mean because they rightly recovered their supplies from the stash that Ben had made the drop point with his unauthorized dealings with bandits?...
ya thats totally Lee and Liliy's fault, wtf were they thinking?
If there was no deal in the first place, the bandits wouldnt have gotten enraged when they came to the drop off and found it empty
But Lee getting that bag is part of the game, you cannot 'what if...' that part of the game
There's not going be be another day to figure it out, they have to deal with the current situation that Ben has directly placed them in.
I cant explain why they would do a pick up in broad daylight, nor can I explain how Ben was on watch on the RV before I went into Lily's room and yet when I look out the window my whole group is at gunpoint.
Lilly stuck him on watch, do you really think he was going to tell her no?
No, because he's a coward when dealing with the rest of the group, which is Ben's fault. Lilly's attitude is partly to blame as well but he never even tried to talk to Lee, and won't no matter how much you talk to him. I don't think he's trying to fit in at all.
And no, I was referring to this post:
Ah, okay. Well, Kenny was still talking to Katjaa when the bandits came in and he might've not noticed the bandits until it was too late to get to cover. Honestly, it's a bit hard for me to form an opinion on this part since one moment you're talking to Lilly and the next moment you already see everyone being held at gunpoint. I don't have a problem assigning some blame to Kenny for being too complacent, but, IMO the root cause of the problem was Ben trying to be a diplomat rather than doing his job.
Comments
if that happens I'll be very happy!
kenny in my game is my friend, after thinking a bit I would not kill Ben in cold blood, as Lilly did with Carley!
If I did that I would be like Lilly.E Carley die in vain, because she was trying to protect him from Lilly!
But if I had to choose between Ben and another character useful, I will not think 2 times.
But that part of the train in which he confesses that it was him, I threatened him!
0). Ben was in no position to refuse the Bandit's "Offer" due to stupidity and weakness.
1). Wouldn't throwing a kid out of the group alone in the zombie apocalypse without supplies be near-certain death?
2). Lilly wished to do precisely that to Ben from the beginning didn't she?
3). Was Lilly's sole reason for wanting to be rid of Ben was that he was an outsider?
4). Given Ben's general uselessness, wouldn't Lilly want Ben dead even more so?
5). Given Lilly's mental state, wouldn't any failure on Ben's part push Lilly to the point that she'd out right kill rather than death by banishment, as evident from what did occur?
6). Due to Lilly being adamant on staying at the motel even in the face of low supplies and the coming winter, wouldn't 5). not be a certainty if Ben's failure interfere with that desire?
7). Aren't Ben's comments on his fear of Lilly evidence enough that Ben is aware of the consequences of the previously described?
8). If the previous 7 are correct then what could Ben do? Options;
A). Tell someone who wouldn't kill him or do so by siding with Lilly. Sub-options;
I). Lee, One of Lee's reactions to Ben's confession is "I could kill you"... Also there are continuities were Lee is definitely on Lilly's side.
II). Kenny, Maybe but he seems to have a very low open of Ben, calling him an invitation to "rape our women and children", as well as "fucking stupid", I'm not seeing a bond of trust there.
III). Carley, Lilly despised Carley, were Lilly to think Carley was involved she's shot her in the face without evidence, believe me I know.
IV). Doug, I think this might be the best person to confess to, but Lilly still didn't have a high opinion of him either seeing as she pointed fingers at him too, also he's dead in most continuities so yeah.
V). Anyone else, Kaatja and the kids aren't exactly in position of power to actually help Ben any.
C). Keep the deal going and hide it from everyone, Ben gets to live at least until he's discovered or if he's lucky something happens that means no one kills him.
D). Preemptively kill Lilly, what better way to prevent your death at Lilly's hands that to get rid of her before she gets you. Sub-options;
I). Just put a bullet in her brain consequences be damned, that would require Ben to have a fairly large pair and be risky as fuck. But if Lee and Kenny can get away with killing Larry who knows.
II). Make your position clear - Lilly leaves or Ben leaves, even if Ben had the balls to do this I get the feeling Ben would be the one to be kicked from the group. Again risky as fuck.
III). Have the Bandits do it, If Ben can make a deal for his friend's life then maybe he can for Lilly's but I don't see what Ben could give in return for it. Also can hardly get the deal off his shoulder if he has another for a group member's life.
IV). Lure her into a trap, getting Lilly eaten by zombies while Ben escapes would require more intelligence and skill than Ben possesses.
E). Fuck it all tell Lilly about the deal and take the bullet to the face, No, anyone who genuinely thinks this is an option is an unjustifiable moron or a purely selfless saint.
So, on which number lies the error in my thinking? Am I missing an option Ben could take?
9). If C). really was the only option Ben could take, then why is this his fault not the Bandits (or even Lilly's [but that's for my next post])?
Nah, I don't like Ben, I wished Lee, Carley, and Clem, could've left him with the rest of the group and been on our way. I liked Glenn and Mark too but they were very temporary characters. Also Kaatja and Duck are alright but I'm a big fan of Kenny so they're off limits. I don't like Lilly either. Larry would be okay if I wasn't Lee.
But my dislike of Ben isn't due to his deal with the bandits.
While we dont agree on Ben and the Bandits, you've clearly addressed your points (in great detail), and your stance is unwavering. good show
Well, there are two ways of looking at it. If you're looking at it from the survivability standpoint, then yes, Ben's dead weight and the sooner he's gone, the better.
But consider the moral standpoint. From that standpoint, it makes perfect sense to support Ben. He's not a bad person, he's just stupid. Contrast this with Lilly, who, sure, is more of an asset to the group, but is almost completely amoral, with her being perfectly willing to leave others to die or flat-out murder someone based on paranoia (if you saved Doug) or sheer petty egotism (if you saved Carley).
Actually, speaking of Carley, part of Carley's appeal was that she was the one espousing morality when everyone else was bickering about pragmatics and supplies. She's the one that risks her life to save the survivors she doesn't even know and defends her choice when confronted by Lilly. When arguing about whether or not mercy-killing the unnamed woman in episode 3 was the right thing, Carley was the only person who even considered "couldn't you try saving her?" Not pragmatic in the slightest, but moral. She's also the only one in the group who stands up for Ben when Lilly's being a paranoid bully. That's why Carley's a good character, not because she's hot or because she has a gun.
For my own stances, I'd pick Ben over Lilly in a heartbeat. Ben might be a liability, and a large one at that, but he's not a bad person - just an idiot. Lilly, on the other hand, is pretty flagrantly a worse human being. Consider the reactions they have after their respective screw-ups. Ben shows genuine remorse and guilt. Lilly? She doesn't. She breaks down and starts trying to justify her actions, and if you show her pity she betrays you the first chance she gets. So as stated earlier, Lilly might be more "useful" to the group, but if I care about humanity I'm gonna pick the humane option.
Now, you may say that such things don't really have a place in the Zombie Apocalypse. Well, you may be right. But personally I've always considered myself to be a sentimentalist.
Yes, in today's world Lily is reprehensible. In a ZA, Lily is the leader you want.
She makes decisions for her group's well being; strangers are a no-no; suspect everyone-this is the right mentality for a ZA- where the humans are more dangerous than the walkers.
Ben, on the other hand, is walker food. You can see it in his eyes. You need strong people to survive the ZA; mentally even more than physically. He's weak in literally every sense of the word.
In today's world, Ben is probably that nice polite guy that minds his manners and everyone likes (or maybe doesnt even notice); in a ZA-1st wave of casualties.
She pawns responsibilities off to others because she can't take the pressure. She refuses to lift a finger to help anyone unless it's "what can they do for me?" She sits on her ass while everyone else does the work. She betrays everyone the moment it's clear she doesn't have power anymore. She never comes up with solutions to anything, which is something that Kenny is actually capable of and demonstrates multiple times.
Lilly is a terrible leader and a terrible human being. Great character, though.
I still pick her over Ben!
That's pragmatism, why bring in unknown people who you can't feed? They might steal from you, kill you, and at the least weaken an already weak resource base.
She delegates, that's smart - one person can't do everything. Nor should they.
She didn't betray anyone, she wanted to punish a guilty party.
I can't believe I just defended Lilly like that lol
She was never an effective leader. She just wanted the power, and when that power was denied, she showed her true colors, either by completely breaking down and begging (you choose to leave her) or by betraying the group (you choose to let her stay).
What she did was wrong, how she did it was wrong, but it wasn't a betrayal - it was an ill conceived witch hunt. Her reason was protection - but she was so far gone that the delivery was... horrible.
Exactly.
The entire situation had gotten way out of hand.
I hate to keep saying "It's a ZA, you have to expect it" But it really is the case.
Some people adapt, some fold, some crack.
Actually, this is getting off-topic. This would've been better suited for the "Team Lilly" thread. Though seriously, "Team Lilly"? What is this, Twilight?
And ironically, our actions - through Lee - may have filled her with it.
Carley was my favorite NPC, Lilly was my second - and I left her without a second thought. She had gotten dangerous, despite her intentions.
Which is why I'll ghost Ben the first chance I get, unless he does something monumentally awesome for the group or at least Lee/Clem/Kenny.
haha took me a long while to arrive at that conclusion, but I agree
Kenny might not share those opinions
Be that as it may, he wont stay with my group a minute longer than needed.
Y'see, I'm not of the mindset of "I think I'll flat-out murder" (which is what some people on this forum have been directly saying) "leave someone for dead because they're an idiot." Sentimentalist, after all.
Story-wise, I figure that they're gonna do something with him like they did with Larry or Duck. He's not gonna get any heroics or stuff like that, but I'd be willing to bet that he gets something pretty damn personally tragic.
Not directly, but indirectly.
Inaction can be as lethal as direct action.
Look what happens, in game, when Lee just stands around with his thumb up his ass.
In fact, you can watch it on YouTube.
so were you on lilly's side during the argument in the RV? because to me it seemed like the whole idea was to convince everybody that she should kill him
This.
Whats in store for Ep4?
Clem -Dead
Christa - Dead
Chuck-Dead
Ben- "whoops...":
No sir, f-that
totally, in my playthrough I was the one who loaded the fresh clip and slipped it into the small of her back.
Then I said the words that triggered her rage:
"I dont like no hash!"
Next thing I knew- 'whoa- Carely/Doug, you alright?'
And Episode 5... ? Not likely.
Lee and Lilly are also the reason the bandits attacked at all that day. Had Lee left the bag where he found it, the bandits would have come and gone, while the group hashed things out at the motor inn and decided what to do and maybe, just maybe, Lilly wouldn't have been so trigger happy.
Addressed in a previous post.
If the medical supplies were so important, why didn't Kenny grab the backpack of supplies when he grabbed the gun from Lilly's room and ran for the RV, tossing Lee the gun? The stupidity isn't all Ben's.
Though his is more single mindedness than apathetic stupidity.
Lilly stuck him on watch, do you really think he was going to tell her no? And no, I was referring to this post:
...you mean because they rightly recovered their supplies from the stash that Ben had made the drop point with his unauthorized dealings with bandits?...
ya thats totally Lee and Liliy's fault, wtf were they thinking?
If there was no deal in the first place, the bandits wouldnt have gotten enraged when they came to the drop off and found it empty
As Kenny said, "The bandits had our number weeks ago", one more day to figure things out rationally as a group would have saved some grief.
There's not going be be another day to figure it out, they have to deal with the current situation that Ben has directly placed them in.