I understand that Ben was afraid of Lilly but he could of easily gone to Lee before he even started the deal and let Lee know what was going on. Lee could've gently brought it up to the group and they could of discussed it.
I am mad that his secret inadvertently got three of my group (all of them favorites (( and yes I liked Duck before liking Duck was cool))) killed but I don't hold it against him. He was in a tough situation and he probably saved more lives than was lost. My Lee doesn't even threaten him, just asks why. My Lee is going to make him step up though. After losing Carly (snif snif) and with Kenny down in the dumps, he has to.
No, its to fight for the opposite point of view even when you know its wrong, for the sake of arguement, thats why its the Devil's advocate
Would you have done the same thing in his place?
To advocate is to "support" or "argue in favor of". Playing "devil's advocate" is not because you "know" or even think it's wrong - it's because you think that there is value in the argument itself. It forces you to consider the other point of view, and how it may be (in part or in whole) correct or incorrect. Basically, use the oppositions logic and point out the flaws in your own. In this case, I don't believe we can place all of the fault with Ben, I think we should look at his actions as a mere symptom of the cause - the overwhelming lack of trust and comradery that this group has displayed.
Now, I've already said how I would have felt - and I think the logical progression of what I would have done AS Ben would be to do what served my best interests, because apart from letting me stay, nobody else was going to do that for me. Ben believed his best interest was in keeping his classmate safe by dealing with the bandits - confiding to the group could have possibly meant that they disagreed with him, and nothing would be done. Lilly's behavior did nothing but to DISCOURAGE Ben from coming forward with first his predicament, and next with his mistake.
To advocate is to "support" or "argue in favor of". Playing "devil's advocate" is not because you "know" or even think it's wrong - it's because you think that there is value in the argument itself. It forces you to consider the other point of view, and how it may be (in part or in whole) correct or incorrect. Basically, use the oppositions logic and point out the flaws in your own. In this case, I don't believe we can place all of the fault with Ben, I think we should look at his actions as a mere symptom of the cause - the overwhelming lack of trust and comradery that this group has displayed.
Now, I've already said how I would have felt - and I think the logical progression of what I would have done AS Ben would be to do what served my best interests, because apart from letting me stay, nobody else was going to do that for me. Ben believed his best interest was in keeping his classmate safe by dealing with the bandits - confiding to the group could have possibly meant that they disagreed with him, and nothing would be done. Lilly's behavior did nothing but to DISCOURAGE Ben from coming forward with first his predicament, and next with his mistake.
haha, it was a yes or no question: If you didnt want to answer the question thats cool- but dont dance me around And your definition of DA is incorrect.
"The purpose of such process is typically to test the quality of the original argument and identify weaknesses in its structure, and to use such information to either improve or abandon the original, opposing position"
Basically, use the oppositions logic and point out the flaws in your own.
Straight from wikipedia, with what I said underneath.
And...
"...what I would have done AS Ben would be to do what served my best interests...Ben believed his best interest was in keeping his classmate safe by dealing with the bandits"
Don't know how I could have been any clearer than that.
"The purpose of such process is typically to test the quality of the original argument and identify weaknesses in its structure, and to use such information to either improve or abandon the original, opposing position"
Basically, use the oppositions logic and point out the flaws in your own.
Straight from wikipedia, with what I said underneath.
And...
"...what I would have done AS Ben would be to do what served my best interests...Ben believed his best interest was in keeping his classmate safe by dealing with the bandits"
Don't know how I could have been any clearer than that.
ah, Im sorry, I meant straight answers. Not rhetoric; you sound like you're on Cspan. "Yes" / "No" - those are appropriate responses to a yes/no type question. That answer was as clear as shower-pane glass.
Wikipedia states:
"a devil's advocate is someone who, given a certain argument, takes a position he or she does not necessarily agree with, for the sake of argument."
I didnt see anything you typed as a DA in there,its weird cause this is where I went first before I asked you. Maybe there are 2 wikipedias?
Dictionary.com states:
"a person who advocates an opposing or unpopular cause for the sake of argument or to expose it to a thorough examination."
Episode 1, if you talked to Ben when he arrived, he stated he wished he could have done more. From that statement, his actions aren't all that surprising, cause and effect. He had no concept where his actions would lead and therefore lacks culpability. It's the difference between man slaughter and first degree murder.
IMO, the whole first part of the episode at the motel showed why it's too dangerous and completely unacceptable to make deals behind everyone else's back. Because Ben didn't talk to the group first everyone's lives were placed in danger once Lee found the stolen supplies. The bandits were able to get inside the motel and had everyone at their mercy until Lee and Lilly took care of them. I'm also assuming Ben let those bandits in at the first place since there were no sounds of fighting when they first came in and all their previous attacks failed. And then the walkers came because they were attracted by the gunfire and bit Duck. Also, his secret deal gave the group a false sense of security since it looked like the bandit problem was over, if Ben informed the group before or immediately after making the deal the group could've debated whether to continue with the deal, prepare for further attacks, or leave as soon as the RV is ready.
The way I see it, Ben's actions led to the deaths Duck and Katjaa, the loss of whatever supplies they left at the motel at the time, and is partially responsible for Carley's/Doug's death and Lilly going crazy as well. I have no doubt that Ben acted with the best intentions but that's not enough in the ZA, and I'd have booted him off the train if that was an option (very surprised it wasn't).
The supply theif (Ben) did act out of protection, which was quite obvious as soon as you listened to what the bandits had to say. Which further makes Lillys paranoia and shot just 10x more unforgivable.
But Ben approached it the wrong way and with extremely stupid reasons. If Lee chooses to ask why, Ben mentions that the bandits told him a story that they had his friend hostage. 99% likely a lie to lure the shy, gullible kid in.
I can not think of a single reason why he didn't tell the group that he was cutting a deal which would cause the bandits to hold off. He wouldn't have even needed to mention the part about his supposed friend.
Thinking outside the box, he had plenty of time to tell it before the episode and prevent everything. Instead he let Lillys paranoia flare up. And god knows how he didn't intervene when Lee was investigating the missing supplies. Lee would've asked him about all the evidence as he moved around. Lee found the chalk. He even made all the ruckus of opening the gate and then walking back in with the brown back clutched in his hand.
Ben was sitting centered, elevated, on watch duty while this was happening. By taking the bag, Lee set the trouble in motion, and Ben was either too dim to notice or he decided that he would rather deal with a bandit attack then come clean.
Heck, as watchman, everyone was relying on him to not let bandits round up the group effortlessly. And we know how well that went.
The boy is as clever as a bag of hammers. And we have plenty of adult hands to do the heavy lifting already. Even if it wasn't for her size, which alone has saved the whole group on at least two occasions, Clem still seems vastly more capable and brave than him. Maybe smarter and less gullible too.
The fact Ben's still alive is a blatant slap in the face to anyone who believes in survival of the fittest. There is a lot of blood from the living on his hands.
To me it doesn't matter if he felt the group was trustworthy or not. He was still let in the group even though Lilly wasn't for it. He was even given a job within the group, so obviously he was IN the group. He should have come to the group (that he's a part of) with his idea instead of just going with it.
True, he couldn't have known what his actions would lead to but it was still HIS actions that lead to the death of 3 group members. Including the only thing one of our remaining members had in the world, his family. If Kenny wants his revenge on the person who took that from him then why should I stand in his way?
Ben's a cockroach. Easily frightened, runs at the first opportunity, and steals what it can while hiding. And seems to have no purpose other than this.
Ben's a cockroach. Easily frightened, runs at the first opportunity, and steals what it can while hiding. And seems to have no purpose other than this.
A male cockroach probably wouldn't let it's female counterpart take the fall for something it did. I'd say Ben is lower than a cockroach lol
Heck, as watchman, everyone was relying on him to not let bandits round up the group effortlessly. And we know how well that went.
Let's put a 17-year-old kid on watch and expect him to kill human beings in cold blood. That didn't work? Let's hold him accountable for the people who died as a result.
I really hope they don't pull a "now that he's redeemed, he dies lolwut" on Ben, just like they did with most characters that were hated, that would kinda suck =\
I noticed that.
Whenever a character is getting hated on they either kill them or kill the folks next to them to inspire sympathy.
My guess Ben gets himself killed or in other words "punches his own ticket" for the good of the group.
Ben's not a roach, he's just a typical coward. The last weakling in the Walking Dead talked to a chained up zombie and let it bite her. I think he'll get something less poetic, but no more heroic.
Roach implies he's a bad person, to me. Ben's not bad. He's a liability. Whether that's worse than a weasel/roach/snake is up to the individual weasel farmer/pest controller/snake wrangler.
I've got two files. One where Carley dies and my Lee isn't really thinking and hates Ben. He'll let him get killed at first chance since he is the reason (in his mind, mind you!) that Carley has perished and Lilly has left us.
In my other save where Doug is gone, Lee is much more calm and collected about the whole thing. He's still pissed but knows that Ben wasn't trying to harm anyone. Ben will survive (if possible) in this save I think.
No chance in the first one. My Lee threatened him and everything.
Let's put a 17-year-old kid on watch and expect him to kill human beings in cold blood. That didn't work? Let's hold him accountable for the people who died as a result.
You seem to be stretching my meaning there, smart ass. A watchman has a more important job to do before he shoots anything. He relays what he sees so that people can know to act BEFORE they have a barrell pressed at the back of their skull. Did he even manage to say something?
Seeing that everybody was rounded up in the small moments that Lee was in Lillys room, and Ben was essentially sitting right infront of Lillys door, no. A scarecrow would've served more purpose up there.
Another reason to hold him accountable? Ignoring all of the stuff Lee did right in front of him and/or still not mentioning the consequences of taking that bag. He was dealing with BANDITS! Bandits who had already attacked before they were given this new motive.
Let's put a 17-year-old kid on watch and expect him to kill human beings in cold blood. That didn't work? Let's hold him accountable for the people who died as a result.
Carl is 10yrs old in the comics and kills people without a second thought when there is a clear and present danger. Humans too
Carl is not the exception, he was a normal kid, saw alot of rough stuff and was conditioned to it. Clem will become the same, hopefully not so sociopathic, but the same hardened skin to the new world around them. Point is if 10yr old can do it, then 17 yr old should be able to able to adapt as well, and faster
This my core problem with him and it not only makes him the weak link it makes him the biggest danger to our group, especially when it hits the fan. I tried so hard to leave him in the woods...
He relays what he sees so that people can know to act BEFORE they have a barrell pressed at the back of their skull. Did he even manage to say something?
...Ignoring all of the stuff Lee did right in front of him and/or still not mentioning the consequences of taking that bag.
You're assuming he was aware that Lee found the bag (the man has some amazing back pockets). Ben would have been expecting the bandits to pick up and wouldn't be alarmed by them approaching the motor inn. What about Kenny sitting right there in front of the gate with his gun right beside him; the guy who complained about Ben being on watch to begin with? There is a great deal of shared responsibility in everything that happened.
Carl is not the exception, he was a normal kid, saw alot of rough stuff and was conditioned to it... 17 yr old should be able to able to adapt as well, and faster
The key word in that statement is "conditioned". A younger child would adapt quicker, while Ben is a complete newbie with 17 years of adverse preconditioning.
You're assuming he was aware that Lee found the bag (the man has some amazing back pockets). Ben would have been expecting the bandits to pick up and wouldn't be alarmed by them approaching the motor inn. What about Kenny sitting right there in front of the gate with his gun right beside him; the guy who complained about Ben being on watch to begin with? There is a great deal of shared responsibility in everything that happened.
The key word in that statement is "conditioned". A younger child would adapt quicker, while Ben is a complete newbie with 17 years of adverse preconditioning.
Ok lets try this another way: Everyone has adapted both old (Lee, Kenny, Lily, Carly, Larry, every other adult we've met) and young (Duck, Clem), except Ben. Ben is weak. There is no getting around it.
Ok lets try this another way: Everyone has adapted both old (Lee, Kenny, Lily, Carly, Larry, every other adult we've met) and young (Duck, Clem), except Ben. Ben is weak. There is no getting around it.
Bullshit. Shame on you, that whole statement is weak. Kenny is hanging by a thread, Lilly has snapped, Carley, Larry, Katjaa and Duck are dead, and poor little Clem hasn't wrapped her brain around shooting even a walker yet.
Sure Ben's weak. He's the product of an overbearing father and/or an overprotective mother, who hasn't learned to stand on his own feet yet, let alone adapt to a completely new reality.
Bullshit. Shame on you, that whole statement is weak. Kenny is hanging by a thread, Lilly has snapped, Carley, Larry, Katjaa and Duck are dead, and poor little Clem hasn't wrapped her brain around shooting even a walker yet.
Sure Ben's weak. He's the product of an overbearing father and/or an overprotective mother, who hasn't learned to stand on his own feet yet, let alone adapt to a completely new reality.
So flawed in so many ways.
First off you're not a writer for TTG so your fanfiction of Ben and these mythical parents you just included is invalid. You know about as much about Ben as I- from the episodes so stop with the defense attorney crap.
And by adapt I mean to the new world around them: the ZA and Yes- everyone realizes the situation they're in and they're scared, but not scared like a deer in headlights to the point they cant even react like Ben.
Personal attacks, the last resort of a flawed argument. "Fanfiction"? Basic psychology. I've already addressed your post previously and have nothing new to add.
Personal attacks, the last resort of a flawed argument. "Fanfiction"? Basic psychology. I've already addressed your post previously and have nothing new to add.
Sorry, but you dont get to add your own psychoanalysis of Ben and have it included into this discussion as fact. For all we know he was an abandoned orphan or some silver spoon trust-fund baby. The fact that you had to go reaching for that proves it's your argument that is flawed, not mine. And yes, thats what it's called when Fans make up unofficial and fictional facts about a character. Like that bit about the parents we never saw and he never talked about.
For all we know he was an abandoned orphan or some silver spoon trust-fund baby. The fact that you had to go reaching for that proves it's your argument that is flawed, not mine.
Obviously you didn't actually explore all the dialogue options with Ben, because he talks about his parents on the train. Blow some more hot air.
Obviously you didn't actually explore all the dialogue options with Ben, because he talks about his parents on the train. Blow some more hot air.
No, I dont waste time on dead men walking. If he does speak of his parents then , I'll just have to take your word for that and apologize. So is that his new crutch then? Momma didnt hug him enough, lets love Ben more and hopefully he wont take out 50% of our team in Ep4?
Clearly we will have to agree to disagree here, I just dont understand how in a ZA, people would want that kind of weakness and stupidity in their group, he is a risk to all.
I know he confessed and all, but its just not plausible he could have done something that involves danger and planning. He's just too much of a coward to cut any kind of deal with the bandits. I can't imagine any kind of way the bandits could have approached him to "hash out the terms" or inform him of his friends plight at their camp. The boy would have fled, called for help etc. at the first sign of danger.
And how exactly did he even have the privacy required to hook up with bandits? Rest of the group had their 17-year old idiot wander around, let alone guard the camp unattended? Not likely, considering none of the other adults really trust him.
And even if he was actually capable of talking to the bandits, I can't imagine him having had the courage to actually steal the supplies the way he did. He at the very least would have fucked up at forging the supply books, or forgotten it entirely.
But in the end, I suppose it is more gratifying to read a story where a community can be perceived to fail because of a backstabbing weakling(who really isn't one of us), than a story where it unravels solely due to its inherent lack of solidarity or some other non-existent bullshit.
An interesting plot twist would be to let the player decide between Ben's and Kenny's life/company in episode 4.
Ben betrayed the group and "killed" Carley/Doug (arguably even Duck and Katjaa), so many would probably choose him out of hatred, even though he would be the best material to form by your own thinking.
Kenny is believed to have a boat, which is not proven at all, and if you didn't side with him before, he won't move a finger to help you, so you'd be on your own... again.
This would be a tough choice for me, especially if they gave Ben something positive at hand before the choice.
No, I dont waste time on dead men walking. If he does speak of his parents then , I'll just have to take your word for that and apologize. So is that his new crutch then? Momma didnt hug him enough, lets love Ben more and hopefully he wont take out 50% of our team in Ep4?
Clearly we will have to agree to disagree here, I just dont understand how in a ZA, people would want that kind of weakness and stupidity in their group, he is a risk to all.
No one makes any comments on Carley's shining intellect...
Comments
I am mad that his secret inadvertently got three of my group (all of them favorites (( and yes I liked Duck before liking Duck was cool))) killed but I don't hold it against him. He was in a tough situation and he probably saved more lives than was lost. My Lee doesn't even threaten him, just asks why. My Lee is going to make him step up though. After losing Carly (snif snif) and with Kenny down in the dumps, he has to.
Agreed. He's gotta grow up and grow a pair. Also, communication is a problem in the group - no one talks to each other. Secrets kill.
To advocate is to "support" or "argue in favor of". Playing "devil's advocate" is not because you "know" or even think it's wrong - it's because you think that there is value in the argument itself. It forces you to consider the other point of view, and how it may be (in part or in whole) correct or incorrect. Basically, use the oppositions logic and point out the flaws in your own. In this case, I don't believe we can place all of the fault with Ben, I think we should look at his actions as a mere symptom of the cause - the overwhelming lack of trust and comradery that this group has displayed.
Now, I've already said how I would have felt - and I think the logical progression of what I would have done AS Ben would be to do what served my best interests, because apart from letting me stay, nobody else was going to do that for me. Ben believed his best interest was in keeping his classmate safe by dealing with the bandits - confiding to the group could have possibly meant that they disagreed with him, and nothing would be done. Lilly's behavior did nothing but to DISCOURAGE Ben from coming forward with first his predicament, and next with his mistake.
haha, it was a yes or no question: If you didnt want to answer the question thats cool- but dont dance me around
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/devil's+advocate
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devil's_advocate
"The purpose of such process is typically to test the quality of the original argument and identify weaknesses in its structure, and to use such information to either improve or abandon the original, opposing position"
Basically, use the oppositions logic and point out the flaws in your own.
Straight from wikipedia, with what I said underneath.
And...
"...what I would have done AS Ben would be to do what served my best interests...Ben believed his best interest was in keeping his classmate safe by dealing with the bandits"
Don't know how I could have been any clearer than that.
ah, Im sorry, I meant straight answers. Not rhetoric; you sound like you're on Cspan.
Wikipedia states:
"a devil's advocate is someone who, given a certain argument, takes a position he or she does not necessarily agree with, for the sake of argument."
I didnt see anything you typed as a DA in there,its weird cause this is where I went first before I asked you. Maybe there are 2 wikipedias?
Dictionary.com states:
"a person who advocates an opposing or unpopular cause for the sake of argument or to expose it to a thorough examination."
So the rules are subjective. Some say he did no wrong, and others (like me) say he did - so he's screwed or not screwed on a case by case basis.
The way I see it, Ben's actions led to the deaths Duck and Katjaa, the loss of whatever supplies they left at the motel at the time, and is partially responsible for Carley's/Doug's death and Lilly going crazy as well. I have no doubt that Ben acted with the best intentions but that's not enough in the ZA, and I'd have booted him off the train if that was an option (very surprised it wasn't).
But Ben approached it the wrong way and with extremely stupid reasons. If Lee chooses to ask why, Ben mentions that the bandits told him a story that they had his friend hostage. 99% likely a lie to lure the shy, gullible kid in.
I can not think of a single reason why he didn't tell the group that he was cutting a deal which would cause the bandits to hold off. He wouldn't have even needed to mention the part about his supposed friend.
Thinking outside the box, he had plenty of time to tell it before the episode and prevent everything. Instead he let Lillys paranoia flare up. And god knows how he didn't intervene when Lee was investigating the missing supplies. Lee would've asked him about all the evidence as he moved around. Lee found the chalk. He even made all the ruckus of opening the gate and then walking back in with the brown back clutched in his hand.
Ben was sitting centered, elevated, on watch duty while this was happening. By taking the bag, Lee set the trouble in motion, and Ben was either too dim to notice or he decided that he would rather deal with a bandit attack then come clean.
Heck, as watchman, everyone was relying on him to not let bandits round up the group effortlessly. And we know how well that went.
The boy is as clever as a bag of hammers. And we have plenty of adult hands to do the heavy lifting already. Even if it wasn't for her size, which alone has saved the whole group on at least two occasions, Clem still seems vastly more capable and brave than him. Maybe smarter and less gullible too.
The fact Ben's still alive is a blatant slap in the face to anyone who believes in survival of the fittest. There is a lot of blood from the living on his hands.
True, he couldn't have known what his actions would lead to but it was still HIS actions that lead to the death of 3 group members. Including the only thing one of our remaining members had in the world, his family. If Kenny wants his revenge on the person who took that from him then why should I stand in his way?
Ben's a cockroach. Easily frightened, runs at the first opportunity, and steals what it can while hiding. And seems to have no purpose other than this.
A male cockroach probably wouldn't let it's female counterpart take the fall for something it did. I'd say Ben is lower than a cockroach lol
Let's put a 17-year-old kid on watch and expect him to kill human beings in cold blood. That didn't work? Let's hold him accountable for the people who died as a result.
I noticed that.
Whenever a character is getting hated on they either kill them or kill the folks next to them to inspire sympathy.
My guess Ben gets himself killed or in other words "punches his own ticket" for the good of the group.
Then we are all forced to love him
In my other save where Doug is gone, Lee is much more calm and collected about the whole thing. He's still pissed but knows that Ben wasn't trying to harm anyone. Ben will survive (if possible) in this save I think.
No chance in the first one. My Lee threatened him and everything.
You seem to be stretching my meaning there, smart ass. A watchman has a more important job to do before he shoots anything. He relays what he sees so that people can know to act BEFORE they have a barrell pressed at the back of their skull. Did he even manage to say something?
Seeing that everybody was rounded up in the small moments that Lee was in Lillys room, and Ben was essentially sitting right infront of Lillys door, no. A scarecrow would've served more purpose up there.
Another reason to hold him accountable? Ignoring all of the stuff Lee did right in front of him and/or still not mentioning the consequences of taking that bag. He was dealing with BANDITS! Bandits who had already attacked before they were given this new motive.
Carl is 10yrs old in the comics and kills people without a second thought when there is a clear and present danger. Humans too
Carl is not the exception, he was a normal kid, saw alot of rough stuff and was conditioned to it. Clem will become the same, hopefully not so sociopathic, but the same hardened skin to the new world around them. Point is if 10yr old can do it, then 17 yr old should be able to able to adapt as well, and faster
Carl's downright scary.
This my core problem with him and it not only makes him the weak link it makes him the biggest danger to our group, especially when it hits the fan. I tried so hard to leave him in the woods...
You're assuming he was aware that Lee found the bag (the man has some amazing back pockets). Ben would have been expecting the bandits to pick up and wouldn't be alarmed by them approaching the motor inn. What about Kenny sitting right there in front of the gate with his gun right beside him; the guy who complained about Ben being on watch to begin with? There is a great deal of shared responsibility in everything that happened.
The key word in that statement is "conditioned". A younger child would adapt quicker, while Ben is a complete newbie with 17 years of adverse preconditioning.
Ok lets try this another way: Everyone has adapted both old (Lee, Kenny, Lily, Carly, Larry, every other adult we've met) and young (Duck, Clem), except Ben. Ben is weak. There is no getting around it.
Bullshit. Shame on you, that whole statement is weak. Kenny is hanging by a thread, Lilly has snapped, Carley, Larry, Katjaa and Duck are dead, and poor little Clem hasn't wrapped her brain around shooting even a walker yet.
Sure Ben's weak. He's the product of an overbearing father and/or an overprotective mother, who hasn't learned to stand on his own feet yet, let alone adapt to a completely new reality.
So flawed in so many ways.
First off you're not a writer for TTG so your fanfiction of Ben and these mythical parents you just included is invalid. You know about as much about Ben as I- from the episodes so stop with the defense attorney crap.
And by adapt I mean to the new world around them: the ZA and Yes- everyone realizes the situation they're in and they're scared, but not scared like a deer in headlights to the point they cant even react like Ben.
Sorry, but you dont get to add your own psychoanalysis of Ben and have it included into this discussion as fact. For all we know he was an abandoned orphan or some silver spoon trust-fund baby. The fact that you had to go reaching for that proves it's your argument that is flawed, not mine. And yes, thats what it's called when Fans make up unofficial and fictional facts about a character. Like that bit about the parents we never saw and he never talked about.
Obviously you didn't actually explore all the dialogue options with Ben, because he talks about his parents on the train. Blow some more hot air.
No, I dont waste time on dead men walking. If he does speak of his parents then , I'll just have to take your word for that and apologize. So is that his new crutch then? Momma didnt hug him enough, lets love Ben more and hopefully he wont take out 50% of our team in Ep4?
Clearly we will have to agree to disagree here, I just dont understand how in a ZA, people would want that kind of weakness and stupidity in their group, he is a risk to all.
I know he confessed and all, but its just not plausible he could have done something that involves danger and planning. He's just too much of a coward to cut any kind of deal with the bandits. I can't imagine any kind of way the bandits could have approached him to "hash out the terms" or inform him of his friends plight at their camp. The boy would have fled, called for help etc. at the first sign of danger.
And how exactly did he even have the privacy required to hook up with bandits? Rest of the group had their 17-year old idiot wander around, let alone guard the camp unattended? Not likely, considering none of the other adults really trust him.
And even if he was actually capable of talking to the bandits, I can't imagine him having had the courage to actually steal the supplies the way he did. He at the very least would have fucked up at forging the supply books, or forgotten it entirely.
But in the end, I suppose it is more gratifying to read a story where a community can be perceived to fail because of a backstabbing weakling(who really isn't one of us), than a story where it unravels solely due to its inherent lack of solidarity or some other non-existent bullshit.
This would be a tough choice for me, especially if they gave Ben something positive at hand before the choice.
No one makes any comments on Carley's shining intellect...