Lily was just a bad egg, she was going insane and had to be taken care of. Giving away supplies is traitorous but it is not murder. The situation could have been handled later on maybe on the way to Savannah or before they got on the train.
Would you really have done EP3 the same way as Lilly, in her shoes?
I'd hope not but I honestly don't know what my state of mind would be if I had seen a group member/s kill my father,only a week ago, when I genuinely thought he had a chance.Hopefully not but I fear that Kenny (and Lee) may of not left the St john's farm if they had done that to my father.Frankly I admire Lilly's restraint that day.
Ep 3 was a tragedy for everyone and I just can't see Lilly as the evil and psychopathic harpy that some do.I had sympathy for her and thus she at least deserved a chance to atone.
Do you really think of Ben as a traitor? In his own way he was trying to save the group. The bandits wouldn't have just left everyone alone if they weren't getting something in return. In actuality he bought the group time to finsh repairing the RV.
The wall was capable of buying time just as well since the bandits attacked before and failed. Had Ben told the rest of the group or at least Lee right after the bandits confronted him then the rest of the group could have decided between buying more time with the deal or preparing for further attacks, either way the group would've been able to deal with the situation much better than they did. Instead Ben went behind the group to give the bandits medicine, when he doesn't even know how important they might be to the group and lets the 4 bandits storm into the motel without the slightest warning, and if Lee and Lilly were with the rest of the group at the time then there's a good chance that Ben's stupidity would've cost the group all their lives as opposed to "only" half of them.
And Ben didn't do what he did for the group, if you talk to him on the train he'll say that the bandits told him they had his friends and by the time he realized they were lying it was too late. The monumental stupidity that Ben demonstrated in the first part of Ep. 3 doesn't make him bad but it does make him a severe liability, and IMO, someone that no ZA group interested in survival should think twice about dumping. Death toll for Lee's group right now is, Walkers-1, St. Johns-2, and Ben-3...like I said before, it's not just that I'm angry at Ben, the kid f-ing scares me.
Originally Posted by Calamitymlc
Lily was just a bad egg, she was going insane and had to be taken care of. Giving away supplies is traitorous but it is not murder. The situation could have been handled later on maybe on the way to Savannah or before they got on the train.
I do. What I dont understand* is why two grown ass men couldnt have overpowered 1 woman with a gun and redirected that entire scenario.
I do. What I dont understand* is why two grown ass men couldnt have overpowered 1 woman with a gun and redirected that entire scenario.
So Ben's crime doesn't warrant a death sentence?
As for redirecting Lilly, she stood facing everyone. The only person closest to her was Lee and he had his back turned to her as Kenny approached and she drew her gun. Kenny might have been able to yank Ben or Carley back and down if he's been more aware, but it's didn't work so well for Dougie when he tried.
As for redirecting Lilly, she stood facing everyone. The only person closest to her was Lee and he had his back turned to her as Kenny approached and she drew her gun. Kenny might have been able to yank Ben or Carley back and down if he's been more aware, but it's didn't work so well for Dougie when he tried.
It doesnt. I thought we buried this hatchet?
They couldnt have overpowered Lily cause TTG needed that scene to act as the catalyst to get her out of the story, one way or the other
Originally Posted by Calamitymlc
Lily was just a bad egg, she was going insane and had to be taken care of. Giving away supplies is traitorous but it is not murder. The situation could have been handled later on maybe on the way to Savannah or before they got on the train.
I do. What I dont understand* is why two grown ass men couldnt have overpowered 1 woman with a gun and redirected that entire scenario.
*-Canon is a bitch
My post goes to both Calamitymlc and Xarne.
Let me get this straight. You kill Lilly's dad/or let Kenny gets unpunished for doing it, you watch her get traumatized and you call her a bad egg that must be taken care of ?
So, I go back in ep. 1 go blow Duck's head off because he could've been bitten, then as I watch Kenny lose it because of the death of his son, I declare him a bad egg and say that he must be taken care of?
I mean... seriously?
red panda is making threads for people to flame and troll and generally talk bollocks..notice redpanda hasn't commented in a while, stop catering to his fap material..
It wouldnt matter since I chose to put her on the R.V. anyway. In spite of what she'd done, I wasnt going to just leave her for the walkers. I wouldnt do that to anyone. Of course, then she stole our R.V. so maybe my soft heart gets me in trouble sometimes, lol.
red panda is making threads for people to flame and troll and generally talk bollocks..notice redpanda hasn't commented in a while, stop catering to his fap material..
to be on topic i'd still leave her
Ok, the only one trolling is you with this lame comment.
I only left her because I really wasn't thinking straight... I I was I probably would have taken her. So I guess I'll say that I'd take her. I took her with me in my other plays of Ep3, and I felt really bad about leaving her the first time I did it.
Ben kills 3 and is the savior of Macon for his 'on his toes thinking of thwarting the bandits'
Lily kills 1 and is the incarnate of evil itself
Surreal
Its purely emotional, imo. People sympathize with things that cant apparently defend themselves- babies, the elderly, the invalid (mental or physical)
Lily is course, speaks the truth and is prepared to act. Ben is soft, scared and useless.
People can see themselves in Ben's shoes more than Lily's - see him as someone they could maybe relate to in real life and sympathize for him
In my game a friend killed another good friend(Doug) and I still didn't abandon her, so I would of let her back in if Ben had been killed.I don't condone what she did but I can understand why she cracked and afterwards she did show shock and remorse for her action, leaving her to a likely death feels wrong to me.She wasn't about to go on and massacre the whole group.
I suspect that Clementine could of been the secret to prevent that tragedy.If Clem had screamed,cried or even shouted "Stop this! you're scaring me!" the focus would of been diverted from the squabbling adults.Say what you will but it is shown that Lilly cared for Clem and no way would she of harmed her or even Duck.Of course it's a lot to expect from a 8 year child but I think it would of been quite plausible.
My post goes to both Calamitymlc and Xarne.
Let me get this straight. You kill Lilly's dad/or let Kenny gets unpunished for doing it, you watch her get traumatized and you call her a bad egg that must be taken care of ?
So, I go back in ep. 1 go blow Duck's head off because he could've been bitten, then as I watch Kenny lose it because of the death of his son, I declare him a bad egg and say that he must be taken care of?
I mean... seriously?
Well the issue with what you're purposing first off is that the Duck/Larry situation were very different in impending danger. You could visually see as a player in the first scenario that Duck had not been bitten, also Duck did not show any signs of pain or anguish like a scream or bleeding. (You saw how easily the walker bit through Shawn's jugular in the first episode.) Also Duck was a child who probably weighed like 90 pounds, and could easily have been taken care of if he turned with Carley's pistol.
Larry was a 300 pound monster that had a heart attack and wasn't breathing. The chance of resuscitating a 70+ year old man that large is pretty unlikely, especially without proper equipment. There were no weapons around and you had a minimal amount of time to kill him before he turned. Also the whole groups life was at stake every moment they sat in that meat locker, as you soon find out that the plan was to kill everyone and keep one person alive for food.
Lily was an instigator from the first time you met her, always putting herself forward instead of the groups interests. Always instigating group drama whenever she could, even if everyone was against her she still thought she was right. She ruled like a personal dictator regardless of what everyone else thought and couldn't let go of her father who was likely to die anyway once he ran out of medication. If the roles were reversed and Kenny was the danger it would be the same thing.
Like I said before in a hostile environment like the one presented in the Walking Dead one must think of survival rather than morality when they need to choose between the two. Humans work the best in groups so sometimes the groups priority is actually better for your own survival, so when you have an unstable part of the group that runs around shooting innocent people in the head without proof it kinda becomes a serious problem.
Well the issue with what you're purposing first off is that the Duck/Larry situation were very different in impending danger. You could visually see as a player in the first scenario that Duck had not been bitten, also Duck did not show any signs of pain or anguish like a scream or bleeding. (You saw how easily the walker bit through Shawn's jugular in the first episode.) Also Duck was a child who probably weighed like 90 pounds, and could easily have been taken care of if he turned with Carley's pistol.
Larry was a 300 pound monster that had a heart attack and wasn't breathing. The chance of resuscitating a 70+ year old man that large is pretty unlikely, especially without proper equipment. There were no weapons around and you had a minimal amount of time to kill him before he turned. Also the whole groups life was at stake every moment they sat in that meat locker, as you soon find out that the plan was to kill everyone and keep one person alive for food.
Lily was an instigator from the first time you met her, always putting herself forward instead of the groups interests. Always instigating group drama whenever she could, even if everyone was against her she still thought she was right. She ruled like a personal dictator regardless of what everyone else thought and couldn't let go of her father who was likely to die anyway once he ran out of medication. If the roles were reversed and Kenny was the danger it would be the same thing.
Like I said before in a hostile environment like the one presented in the Walking Dead one must think of survival rather than morality when they need to choose between the two. Humans work the best in groups so sometimes the groups priority is actually better for your own survival, so when you have an unstable part of the group that runs around shooting innocent people in the head without proof it kinda becomes a serious problem.
Your first paragraph is a bit incorrect. A walker falls on top of Duck just like the scene in ep. 3. Duck wasn't bitten in ep. 1 but he could've been, just like in ep. 3. You couldn't know for sure and Duck didn't scream in ep. 3 either. To me the way Duck is bitten in ep. 3 is made no purpose. It shows that Duck could've been bitten in ep.1 and it makes you think how you handled the situation as compared to later events.
If Larry was dead and was about to reanimate it would've been very difficult to destroy him. Still not impossible, and there would've been casualties. However, if Duck was bitten in ep. 1 there would've been casualties as well. Katjaa, at least. Shooting around the gun could've entirely changed the way ep. 1 develops. Carley shot one walker and zombies almost entered the store. The fact that some other shooting far away prevented that from happening was sheer luck.
To me personally both situations are very similar as regarding to the risk. I did take the risk both times, because I refuse to give up hope. Regardless whether I dislike Larry or not, he should be given chance.... for Lilly's sake at least.
I'm do not share your opinion with your third paragraph at all. It's Kenny that is always making the drama, always being irrational and trying to boss people around. In his logic it is normal to bring 2 new strangers in a camp full of starving people. He blames Lilly for not wanting to help people and for being a monster. Later, however, it is the right thing to smash a group member's head with a salt lick. Kenny is always the person who's doing the right thing in his opinion, no matter how inconsistent he is and everybody else doing or thinking differently are just losers who do not possess his incredible level of understanding. Even after ep. 2 it is Kenny again that is making the drama, not giving a week for Lilly to mourn, once again putting his family in front of everybody else.
As final words I will say that I do not have problem with your pragmatism vs morality idea. However, if you're going to smash Larry's head, in my opinion, you should've thrown Duck out as well. He was a threat and he could've bit Katjaa. As a survival type of guy, your first reaction should be to get rid of Duck, not defend him just because you like Kenny. Treating your friends better than your other group members is thing that will get you killed in ZA.
Your first paragraph is a bit incorrect. A walker falls on top of Duck just like the scene in ep. 3. Duck wasn't bitten in ep. 1 but he could've been, just like in ep. 3. You couldn't know for sure and Duck didn't scream in ep. 3 either. To me the way Duck is bitten in ep. 3 is made no purpose. It shows that Duck could've been bitten in ep.1 and it makes you think how you handled the situation as compared to later events.
If Larry was dead and was about to reanimate it would've been very difficult to destroy him. Still not impossible, and there would've been casualties. However, if Duck was bitten in ep. 1 there would've been casualties as well. Katjaa, at least. Shooting around the gun could've entirely changed the way ep. 1 develops. Carley shot one walker and zombies almost entered the store. The fact that some other shooting far away prevented that from happening was sheer luck.
To me personally both situations are very similar as regarding to the risk. I did take the risk both times, because I refuse to give up hope. Regardless whether I dislike Larry or not, he should be given chance.... for Lilly's sake at least.
I'm do not share your opinion with your third paragraph at all. It's Kenny that is always making the drama, always being irrational and trying to boss people around. In his logic it is normal to bring 2 new strangers in a camp full of starving people. He blames Lilly for not wanting to help people and for being a monster. Later, however, it is the right thing to smash a group member's head with a salt lick. Kenny is always the person who's doing the right thing in his opinion, no matter how inconsistent he is and everybody else doing or thinking differently are just losers who do not possess his incredible level of understanding. Even after ep. 2 it is Kenny again that is making the drama, not giving a week for Lilly to mourn, once again putting his family in front of everybody else.
As final words I will say that I do not have problem with your pragmatism vs morality idea. However, if you're going to smash Larry's head, in my opinion, you should've thrown Duck out as well. He was a threat and he could've bit Katjaa. As a survival type of guy, your first reaction should be to get rid of Duck, not defend him just because you like Kenny. Treating your friends better than your other group members is thing that will get you killed in ZA.
Well what I meant is that if Duck was really truly bitten to be an immediate danger he would have been in a more serious condition but I see what you mean. Either way it would have taken Duck a fairly long time to turn, he could have been dealt with long after the fact if he was bitten, while Larry was presumed to die in a few minutes which caused a lot more problems. The danger between each is not equal, that's why throwing out Duck made much less sense than killing Larry. Especially because it doesn't make sense to lose an ally over something that could be easily managed.
As for the Kenny situation I guess we can just agree to disagree, I guess that's the whole point of having two conflicting characters, eventually people will pick sides :P.
Well what I meant is that if Duck was really truly bitten to be an immediate danger he would have been in a more serious condition but I see what you mean. Either way it would have taken Duck a fairly long time to turn, he could have been dealt with long after the fact if he was bitten, while Larry was presumed to die in a few minutes which caused a lot more problems. The danger between each is not equal, that's why throwing out Duck made much less sense than killing Larry. Especially because it doesn't make sense to lose an ally over something that could be easily managed.
As for the Kenny situation I guess we can just agree to disagree, I guess that's the whole point of having two conflicting characters, eventually people will pick sides :P.
I will just point out that you always lose an ally, no matter what you do in the meat locker.
The first time I played the game I considered Kenny an ally, until the meat locker scene. Then I realized that I've made some really bad decisions as to where my loyalty should be.
I wouldn't of let her get back on the R.V we didn't know Ben was innocent or guilty at that time and you don't kill members of the group. Look after your own, and if someone kills your own intentionally then they are your enemy.
Of course I've leaved her !
The way I played and the way I felt Lee with Carly, then it is obvious that - with my own emotion and character - I have leaved her; It is rough, yeah, but ....
However, I played an other game nearly at the same time, and choosed to keep her with us (but Carly is not in the story, regarding a choice I made in the EP2).
So I have both situations at the same time.
If it were my choice, I would have left her at the Motor Inn after the bandit attack. It was obvious to me that she was a loose cannon and that keeping her around would result in something bad.
I can't believe some people would consider taking that psychotic, cowardly, backstabbing, hypocritical murderer with them.
She was willing to shoot and succeed in killing an innocent person based on a hunch whether it was Carley or Ben, all she had was accusations, not enough to prove someone of stealing from them besides, she mainly killed Carley because she called Lilly out on what she is. Leaving her to fend for herself was the only humane way of punishing her for her crime. Taking her with you is basically rewarding her and a stab in the back to Carley/Doug who you had gotten close with and had your back. Besides, you take her, she steals the RV from under your nose, possibly killing everyone else but her.
If I had the option, I would've killed her on the spot. She's better off dead.
I said I would have taken her, but now that I think about it I'd probably still leave her. There was no proof, and correct or not it was still a blatant murder.
Anyone who commits cold-blooded murder to any friend of mine is gonna pay the price. So, yeah, I would still leave Lilly on the side of the road if she killed Ben.
I would have taken her with, but would hope there would be an option to group vote whether Lilly stays or goes after things had settled down.
Because I had suspected Ben was the traitor long before he admitted it, I wouldn't have been quite as angry as I was when she killed Carley. But the fact still remains that she would have killed a member of the group who was in no imminent danger of becoming a walker, and without input from every other member of the group. Lilly couldn't be free to carry out an act that serious (and final) unilaterally, without there beign some repercussions.
Ben's fate should have been voted on by the group.
If there had been a group vote before Lilly could take off on her own, I would have had Lee vote for 'exile.'
Comments
You agreed with this part of the post too?
I'd hope not but I honestly don't know what my state of mind would be if I had seen a group member/s kill my father,only a week ago, when I genuinely thought he had a chance.Hopefully not but I fear that Kenny (and Lee) may of not left the St john's farm if they had done that to my father.Frankly I admire Lilly's restraint that day.
Ep 3 was a tragedy for everyone and I just can't see Lilly as the evil and psychopathic harpy that some do.I had sympathy for her and thus she at least deserved a chance to atone.
And Ben didn't do what he did for the group, if you talk to him on the train he'll say that the bandits told him they had his friends and by the time he realized they were lying it was too late. The monumental stupidity that Ben demonstrated in the first part of Ep. 3 doesn't make him bad but it does make him a severe liability, and IMO, someone that no ZA group interested in survival should think twice about dumping. Death toll for Lee's group right now is, Walkers-1, St. Johns-2, and Ben-3...like I said before, it's not just that I'm angry at Ben, the kid f-ing scares me.
Originally Posted by Calamitymlc
Lily was just a bad egg, she was going insane and had to be taken care of. Giving away supplies is traitorous but it is not murder. The situation could have been handled later on maybe on the way to Savannah or before they got on the train.
I do. What I dont understand* is why two grown ass men couldnt have overpowered 1 woman with a gun and redirected that entire scenario.
*-Canon is a bitch
So Ben's crime doesn't warrant a death sentence?
As for redirecting Lilly, she stood facing everyone. The only person closest to her was Lee and he had his back turned to her as Kenny approached and she drew her gun. Kenny might have been able to yank Ben or Carley back and down if he's been more aware, but it's didn't work so well for Dougie when he tried.
It doesnt. I thought we buried this hatchet?
They couldnt have overpowered Lily cause TTG needed that scene to act as the catalyst to get her out of the story, one way or the other
I buried the hatchet and you FOXNEWS'd it. Just confirming.
My post goes to both Calamitymlc and Xarne.
Let me get this straight. You kill Lilly's dad/or let Kenny gets unpunished for doing it, you watch her get traumatized and you call her a bad egg that must be taken care of ?
So, I go back in ep. 1 go blow Duck's head off because he could've been bitten, then as I watch Kenny lose it because of the death of his son, I declare him a bad egg and say that he must be taken care of?
I mean... seriously?
red panda is making threads for people to flame and troll and generally talk bollocks..notice redpanda hasn't commented in a while, stop catering to his fap material..
to be on topic i'd still leave her
Ok, the only one trolling is you with this lame comment.
Lily kills 1 and is the incarnate of evil itself
Surreal
Lily is course, speaks the truth and is prepared to act. Ben is soft, scared and useless.
People can see themselves in Ben's shoes more than Lily's - see him as someone they could maybe relate to in real life and sympathize for him
I suspect that Clementine could of been the secret to prevent that tragedy.If Clem had screamed,cried or even shouted "Stop this! you're scaring me!" the focus would of been diverted from the squabbling adults.Say what you will but it is shown that Lilly cared for Clem and no way would she of harmed her or even Duck.Of course it's a lot to expect from a 8 year child but I think it would of been quite plausible.
Well the issue with what you're purposing first off is that the Duck/Larry situation were very different in impending danger. You could visually see as a player in the first scenario that Duck had not been bitten, also Duck did not show any signs of pain or anguish like a scream or bleeding. (You saw how easily the walker bit through Shawn's jugular in the first episode.) Also Duck was a child who probably weighed like 90 pounds, and could easily have been taken care of if he turned with Carley's pistol.
Larry was a 300 pound monster that had a heart attack and wasn't breathing. The chance of resuscitating a 70+ year old man that large is pretty unlikely, especially without proper equipment. There were no weapons around and you had a minimal amount of time to kill him before he turned. Also the whole groups life was at stake every moment they sat in that meat locker, as you soon find out that the plan was to kill everyone and keep one person alive for food.
Lily was an instigator from the first time you met her, always putting herself forward instead of the groups interests. Always instigating group drama whenever she could, even if everyone was against her she still thought she was right. She ruled like a personal dictator regardless of what everyone else thought and couldn't let go of her father who was likely to die anyway once he ran out of medication. If the roles were reversed and Kenny was the danger it would be the same thing.
Like I said before in a hostile environment like the one presented in the Walking Dead one must think of survival rather than morality when they need to choose between the two. Humans work the best in groups so sometimes the groups priority is actually better for your own survival, so when you have an unstable part of the group that runs around shooting innocent people in the head without proof it kinda becomes a serious problem.
Your first paragraph is a bit incorrect. A walker falls on top of Duck just like the scene in ep. 3. Duck wasn't bitten in ep. 1 but he could've been, just like in ep. 3. You couldn't know for sure and Duck didn't scream in ep. 3 either. To me the way Duck is bitten in ep. 3 is made no purpose. It shows that Duck could've been bitten in ep.1 and it makes you think how you handled the situation as compared to later events.
If Larry was dead and was about to reanimate it would've been very difficult to destroy him. Still not impossible, and there would've been casualties. However, if Duck was bitten in ep. 1 there would've been casualties as well. Katjaa, at least. Shooting around the gun could've entirely changed the way ep. 1 develops. Carley shot one walker and zombies almost entered the store. The fact that some other shooting far away prevented that from happening was sheer luck.
To me personally both situations are very similar as regarding to the risk. I did take the risk both times, because I refuse to give up hope. Regardless whether I dislike Larry or not, he should be given chance.... for Lilly's sake at least.
I'm do not share your opinion with your third paragraph at all. It's Kenny that is always making the drama, always being irrational and trying to boss people around. In his logic it is normal to bring 2 new strangers in a camp full of starving people. He blames Lilly for not wanting to help people and for being a monster. Later, however, it is the right thing to smash a group member's head with a salt lick. Kenny is always the person who's doing the right thing in his opinion, no matter how inconsistent he is and everybody else doing or thinking differently are just losers who do not possess his incredible level of understanding. Even after ep. 2 it is Kenny again that is making the drama, not giving a week for Lilly to mourn, once again putting his family in front of everybody else.
As final words I will say that I do not have problem with your pragmatism vs morality idea. However, if you're going to smash Larry's head, in my opinion, you should've thrown Duck out as well. He was a threat and he could've bit Katjaa. As a survival type of guy, your first reaction should be to get rid of Duck, not defend him just because you like Kenny. Treating your friends better than your other group members is thing that will get you killed in ZA.
Well what I meant is that if Duck was really truly bitten to be an immediate danger he would have been in a more serious condition but I see what you mean. Either way it would have taken Duck a fairly long time to turn, he could have been dealt with long after the fact if he was bitten, while Larry was presumed to die in a few minutes which caused a lot more problems. The danger between each is not equal, that's why throwing out Duck made much less sense than killing Larry. Especially because it doesn't make sense to lose an ally over something that could be easily managed.
As for the Kenny situation I guess we can just agree to disagree, I guess that's the whole point of having two conflicting characters, eventually people will pick sides :P.
I will just point out that you always lose an ally, no matter what you do in the meat locker.
The first time I played the game I considered Kenny an ally, until the meat locker scene. Then I realized that I've made some really bad decisions as to where my loyalty should be.
Of course I've leaved her !
The way I played and the way I felt Lee with Carly, then it is obvious that - with my own emotion and character - I have leaved her; It is rough, yeah, but ....
However, I played an other game nearly at the same time, and choosed to keep her with us (but Carly is not in the story, regarding a choice I made in the EP2).
So I have both situations at the same time.
She was willing to shoot and succeed in killing an innocent person based on a hunch whether it was Carley or Ben, all she had was accusations, not enough to prove someone of stealing from them besides, she mainly killed Carley because she called Lilly out on what she is. Leaving her to fend for herself was the only humane way of punishing her for her crime. Taking her with you is basically rewarding her and a stab in the back to Carley/Doug who you had gotten close with and had your back. Besides, you take her, she steals the RV from under your nose, possibly killing everyone else but her.
If I had the option, I would've killed her on the spot. She's better off dead.
Because I had suspected Ben was the traitor long before he admitted it, I wouldn't have been quite as angry as I was when she killed Carley. But the fact still remains that she would have killed a member of the group who was in no imminent danger of becoming a walker, and without input from every other member of the group. Lilly couldn't be free to carry out an act that serious (and final) unilaterally, without there beign some repercussions.
Ben's fate should have been voted on by the group.
If there had been a group vote before Lilly could take off on her own, I would have had Lee vote for 'exile.'