No i would have taken her with the group, But still i took her with the group when she killed Carley on my first playthrough. I left her when she killed Doug on the second playthrough but that was only because i was trying to get different endings but if i was not trying to get different endings then i would have taken her along too because while it was completely wrong what she did (and also she did something worst that Kenny because Kenny was worried about the group in Ep 2 and that's why he killed Larry while Lilly killed Carley due to anger and she kills Doug because she tried to kill Ben because he was scared and trying to keep the group safe from the bandits.) But still i didn't want to leave her for the zombies because it would be best keeping the group together and just making sure Lilly could not escape. She was still useful for the group while still dangerous but i think Kenny and Lee should have known something like this would happen because they seen that Lilly was slowly starting to go a bit on edge since Ep 2.
I think in the heat of the moment, I'd leave her because I'd be filled with sadness and rage, then reload and take her with me, then reload and leave her, then reload, etc.
Hmm... tough one. I'd probably do both on various playthroughs, but my first choice would probably be to take her, just for the small chance she might have become sane again (*sigh* wishful thinking, huh? Obviously that doesn't happen). I suspected it was Ben ro Kenny anyways.
Nah, if she goes crazy just because someone offended her, can't let her in. Too dangerous.
Pretty much.
Once Lilly has murdered a member of the group in cold blood, without proof of involvement with the bandits and without input from the other members of the group, she has revealed herself to be completely unhinged and a danger to the rest of the group.
Regardless of what Lee may think about Carley or Doug or Ben, his first priority is keeping Clem safe. And he can't do that if there is a loose cannon in the group who may kill other members over the slightest provocation.
For Clem's sake, Lilly needs to be left on the side of that road.
Regardless of Ben's innocence or guilt, Lily's behavior is worse. That is not how you deal with misbehavior in a group. She was not trying to protect anyone in either of the scenarios. She killed Carly for calling her on her shit, and she tried to shoot Ben because she just really wanted to get her way.
Lily proved herself to be nothing more than a loose cannon. Kenny was right to ask how long it would be before she shot him.
Do you really think of Ben as a traitor? In his own way he was trying to save the group. The bandits wouldn't have just left everyone alone if they weren't getting something in return. In actuality he bought the group time to finsh repairing the RV.
For me, Ben's crime wasn't that he made a mistake of sneaking the bandits food it was that he was willing to let someone else take the blame. Lilly hadn't killed anyone in the group before and she wasn't aiming her gun at him in my play through. He couldn't have expected the consequence of admitting what he did would have been death. Even after Lily left Ben was still protesting his innocence till the point where he was swearing at me and loosing his temper. If I had the option I would have thrown him off the moving train and told the group he slipped and fell.
I'd like to think not, but I have clue how I would react to that situation in general. However, I also would like to think I wouldn't have killed Ben had I been in Lily's position.
I don't even think the Lily in the comics would have tried to kill Ben the way she tried in the video game. I think Telltale saw Lily as some villainous character where as in actual fact she was just a deceived, manipulated pawn in the Governors plan and didn't know the whole story when she opened fire on Rick's people in the comics. If Lily was truly that cold an calculating she would have tried to kill Kenny the first chance she got. What with him killing her dad in cold blood and trying to leave her at the motor inn when the bandits attacked. To me that whole sequence with Lily killing Doug/Carly seemed out of place. I think it would have been more fitting if she had killed one of them during a struggle after an argument.
The wall was capable of buying time just as well since the bandits attacked before and failed. Had Ben told the rest of the group or at least Lee right after the bandits confronted him then the rest of the group could have decided between buying more time with the deal or preparing for further attacks, either way the group would've been able to deal with the situation much better than they did. Instead Ben went behind the group to give the bandits medicine, when he doesn't even know how important they might be to the group and lets the 4 bandits storm into the motel without the slightest warning, and if Lee and Lilly were with the rest of the group at the time then there's a good chance that Ben's stupidity would've cost the group all their lives as opposed to "only" half of them.
And Ben didn't do what he did for the group, if you talk to him on the train he'll say that the bandits told him they had his friends and by the time he realized they were lying it was too late. The monumental stupidity that Ben demonstrated in the first part of Ep. 3 doesn't make him bad but it does make him a severe liability, and IMO, someone that no ZA group interested in survival should think twice about dumping. Death toll for Lee's group right now is, Walkers-1, St. Johns-2, and Ben-3...like I said before, it's not just that I'm angry at Ben, the kid f-ing scares me.
Awesome point. I completely forgot that Ben could have warned the group that the bandits were coming since he had been on look out and had the best view. It's true that his loyalties were to his friends which he thought the bandits had as opposed to Lee's group who had been feeding and looking after him for a week. What a wanker.
I never liked Ben and never really felt he was part of the group. His mind always seemed else where even when Clem was trying to engage him. The amount of people who died or nearly died because of that one man. Kenny wouldn't of killed Larry if Ben didn't scare him about the dead coming back without being bitten, Kat and Duck wouldn't have died if he told the group the bandits were coming ahead of time, Carly/Doug wouldn't have died if he didn't keep his involvement in the stolen supplies secret, Chuck wouldn't have died if if Ben ran with Clem instead of leaving her behind, Bree wouldn't of died if Ben didn't take the axe from the door handle which also nearly caused Molly's death and Kenny would have been alive if Ben didn't beg him to stay with him so he didn't die alone when the walkers were coming. Ben was responsible for group members deaths in every episode since his arrival in episode 2.
My post goes to both Calamitymlc and Xarne.
Let me get this straight. You kill Lilly's dad/or let Kenny gets unpunished for doing it, you watch her get traumatized and you call her a bad egg that must be taken care of ?
So, I go back in ep. 1 go blow Duck's head off because he could've been bitten, then as I watch Kenny lose it because of the death of his son, I declare him a bad egg and say that he must be taken care of?
I mean... seriously?
That's a good point. Kenny would have been just as unstable and dangerous if Duck had been kicked out of the group/killed at the drug store in ep 1 when he was believed to have been bitten. Personally I found Kenny to be more sinister at heart than any of the other characters. I say this because he would have watched Danny kill me in the stable and he would have watched me get eaten alive in the drugstore in ep 3 just because he was still upset with me a week after the meat locker incident when I tried to help Larry. By those actions i'd call Kenny a bad egg that needed to be taken care of, he was practically behaving like Shane in the tv show in my play through.
Ben kills 3 and is the savior of Macon for his 'on his toes thinking of thwarting the bandits'
Lily kills 1 and is the incarnate of evil itself
Surreal
If it were my choice, I would have left her at the Motor Inn after the bandit attack. It was obvious to me that she was a loose cannon and that keeping her around would result in something bad.
But you still would have had Ben with you who caused all the other deaths. Keeping Lily around would have been far less dangerous to the group than keeping Ben around. Even Christa voted Ben be left behind and she had only known him for one day, considering the scene in Crawford was the first night she had spent with the group unless it takes more than a day to get from Macon to Savannah by train.
No i would have taken her with the group, But still i took her with the group when she killed Carley on my first playthrough. I left her when she killed Doug on the second playthrough but that was only because i was trying to get different endings but if i was not trying to get different endings then i would have taken her along too because while it was completely wrong what she did (and also she did something worst that Kenny because Kenny was worried about the group in Ep 2 and that's why he killed Larry while Lilly killed Carley due to anger and she kills Doug because she tried to kill Ben because he was scared and trying to keep the group safe from the bandits.) But still i didn't want to leave her for the zombies because it would be best keeping the group together and just making sure Lilly could not escape. She was still useful for the group while still dangerous but i think Kenny and Lee should have known something like this would happen because they seen that Lilly was slowly starting to go a bit on edge since Ep 2.
I love the way Kenny fans justify Kenny's murder. Some might say his intentions were for the good of the group so he's still a stand up guy, what was his excuse when he left me to die when I was stuck under a book shelf in the drug store a week later in ep3? I wasn't a threat to the group but he refused to save me because he was still angry with me for trying to save Larry a week ago. If you try and help Larry Lee even refers to Kenny to the other characters as loosing his head and being dangerous to the group because of his gun ho attitude and him going rouge.
This is a great question. I would still leave Lilly behind. She has become a threat to the group by attempting to kill someone whose innocence or guilt is not determined. What if she was wrong? Stepping back with "player's knowledge" for a minute, remember Lee wouldn't know.
Plus, Ben's utter ineptitude doesn't show itself fully until episode 4.
Not only would I of let her on the RV if she shot Ben I would have loaded the gun and signaled her with a wink before she shot him. All jokes aside I would have looked at Ben, shook my head and said you didn't have to kill him Lily and took the gun from her. I would have made a rule that she couldn't hold a weapon until she was in her right mind again. I wouldn't of tied her up since she would not of been a threat to anyone else. She wanted the traitor out of the group. She trusted everyone else.
Ben was only with the group for a week how attached to him could they have really of been? I would of been closer to Lily than Ben any way. After 3 months Lily was like family, after a week Ben was still like an acquaintance, an outsider, shady, mysterious and distant. In episode 2 the plan was never for him to stay in the group anyway. He was going to stay until his friend/M.r Parker was well enough to leave with him. That was what Lily and I had discussed.
In Carly's case it was different for me since I had lived with her for 3 months also and had been through more with her than the other adult characters in the game. When I saw her death I was furious so I left Lily behind in my first play through. Carly was my closest adult companion and she was innocent unlike Ben. I think the relationship you have with the person killed and their killer comes into play. I had no relationship with Ben so I would have been more forgivable. I was close to Carly so I wasn't so forgivable. Even Rick in the comics covered up what Tyreese did when Tyreese killed his daughter's boyfriend in anger for him killing his daughter. Rick didn't tell the other group members because of his relationship with Tyreese. Had that of been Axel, Dexter or any of the other newly added group members Rick may have acted differently. Rick comforted Tyreese in his anger, like wise I would comfort Lily in hers if she had killed Ben, but if she killed Carly it would be me that would need the comforting so on impulse of anger I would react harshly to Lily because of my bond with Carly.
I would have kept her with me, sure she murdered him in cold blood but she was broken and he had betrayed us. Her actions were too extreme but she was clearly not mentally sound at this point. I guess I just think we could help her become sane again, leaving her to die benefits no one. I left her after she killed Carley because she shot her simply for calling her out on her bullshit. Carley was trustworthy and hadn't done anything. If it's all it takes for her to murder someone how long before she shoots me or Kenny, even Clem?
I would have left her. Her actions are too crazy. Rule one. Never fuckin kill a person just cus of that. Of course it's betraying the group, but really, murder? I would talk it over, but I cant erally say cus im not in lillys situation. But i would probably hit him or something.
Who knows, she might kill others to fix things in her opinion. So I'll still leave that piece of crap in the road. She's a threat also.
I think that I would have left her on the roads if she killed Ben. Even if I knew that Ben took the supplies he wouldn't deserve to get shot by a member of the group. Such a behaviour would only harm the whole group and people would start loosing the trust in each other.
With killing Doug she basically killed Ben as she did shoot at him and Doug sacrificed himself.
The only difference would be Doug would be alive instead of Ben
In a way that would be worse as there would always be the suspicion of who was the traitor and we will never know.
I'd still have saved her but I would probably conspire more with her to try and find out who the real traitor was and she may have not left and I may have accused Kenny and punished them both...
Do you really think of Ben as a traitor? In his own way he was trying to save the group. The bandits wouldn't have just left everyone alone if they weren't getting something in return. In actuality he bought the group time to finsh repairing the RV.
If Ben was stealing the supplies to keep Lee's group safe he wouldn't have had to hide what he did and get Carly killed as those reasons would have been admirable. He stole the supplies to save his friends which he believed the bandits were holding prisoner, that was the excuse he gave Lee when he was on the train.
Ben was on watch and he didn't tell Lee's group the bandits were coming. The whole point to him being on the RV roof was to alert Lee's group of approaching threats. He said nothing which makes him a traitor in my books. He probably hoped they would have taken the stash secretly and left. The thing is the bandits didn't know that the rest of the group didn't know about the deal that they made with Ben. At some point Ben would have had to of met with them in secret, hence all the sneaking around with the flash light which he broke and lied about. In my play through he lied terribly and at times got angry with me for suggesting his involvement even though I told him I wouldn't be upset if it was him that broke the flash light so I don't buy the the whole he was young and scared argument. He trusted and respected Lee. He probably new the group would not go along with the deal if they knew about it and he didn't want to risk his friends in the bandits captivity coming to harm. The same way Clem hid the fact she was talking to the stranger from the group because she knew the group would not agree to go to him and he promised to reunite her with her parents. They both kept secrets from the group to get what they wanted the difference is Clem is only a 9 year old girl and didn't lie to the group at all.
It would have been better for the group if Ben hadn't been dealing with the bandits. The group would of known what they were up against and would have been prepared in stead of getting complacent and letting their guard down. If the group were stationed in one of the upstairs apartments they would have had higher ground and the advantage over the bandits. The bandits wouldn't know how many were in Lee's group or how many guns they had if they couldn't see them. The reason Lee's people were out in the open is because they were oblivious to the threat of the bandits. They assumed the bandits had left them alone or died out.
Kenny was only fixing the RV so he could take his family and anyone he liked to the coast. The rest of the group weren't planning to leave if they were they would have just used Kenny's pick up truck. They were forced to leave because they were caught unawares and their safe haven was compromised which wouldn't of happened if they were prepared and aware that the bandits were still out there.
Well what I meant is that if Duck was really truly bitten to be an immediate danger he would have been in a more serious condition but I see what you mean. Either way it would have taken Duck a fairly long time to turn, he could have been dealt with long after the fact if he was bitten, while Larry was presumed to die in a few minutes which caused a lot more problems. The danger between each is not equal, that's why throwing out Duck made much less sense than killing Larry. Especially because it doesn't make sense to lose an ally over something that could be easily managed.
As for the Kenny situation I guess we can just agree to disagree, I guess that's the whole point of having two conflicting characters, eventually people will pick sides :P.
The rate of time it takes for a dead person to reanimate varies from one individual to another. Some times it takes minutes, sometimes hours and some times a day so from Lee's point of view and even us playing the game Duck was equally as much a threat in the drug store as Larry was in the meat locker. We didn't know if Duck was bitten until after we defended him and we didn't know if Larry was going to die or turn into a zombie before Kenny killed him. The fact that he stopped breathing means nothing because Maggie stopped breathing in the comics and that didn't stop the group from trying to save her. She lived because they didn't give up on her or take the easiest option of killing her in case she reanimated.
If it were my choice, I would have left her at the Motor Inn after the bandit attack. It was obvious to me that she was a loose cannon and that keeping her around would result in something bad.
Wow! That's kind of harsh considering Lilly saved the group from the bandits. She planned a counter attack with Lee from her motel room. She had Lee keep them distracted whilst she got a vantage point and gave Lee the opening to fight the remaining bandits after she took out the leader. Even as a loose cannon she was still alert and sharp enough to neutralize the threat. In that motion she even saved Kenny. If I was her I would have taken out Kenny with that bullet as pay back for killing Larry. That would of confused the bandits even more and still have given the opening for Lee to take out the rest of the attackers.
Even though she saved Kenny at that point he still tried to drive off without her.
If the group had thanked her for saving them and praised her leadership maybe that whole scene with Ben/Carly/Doug would have played out differently. Appreciation goes along way.
Um... actually she was also the cause of Duck getting bitten and Carley's death. Also lead to Katjaa's. She shot the bandits even after Lee made a deal with them. They could have gave them some supplies and snuck out of town. Instead, she started a fight with an army of bandits. She saved noone, and cost them lots of supplies and weapons, considering they had no time to grab everything. So being selfish and not wanting to give some to the bandits cost them not only all the supplies they were trying to protect, but cost them group members too. had she waited for the bandits to react, then she could have attacked them if necessary. Instead, they instantly lost "everything". So yeah, I wanted to leave her anyway. My first playthrough I tried to forgive her, and she not only shot Carley but stole the RV. So now, I just say screw her.
I can't believe some people would consider taking that psychotic, cowardly, backstabbing, hypocritical murderer with them.
She was willing to shoot and succeed in killing an innocent person based on a hunch whether it was Carley or Ben, all she had was accusations, not enough to prove someone of stealing from them besides, she mainly killed Carley because she called Lilly out on what she is. Leaving her to fend for herself was the only humane way of punishing her for her crime. Taking her with you is basically rewarding her and a stab in the back to Carley/Doug who you had gotten close with and had your back. Besides, you take her, she steals the RV from under your nose, possibly killing everyone else but her.
If I had the option, I would've killed her on the spot. She's better off dead.
Even if she killed Doug, Carly or her original target Ben, she was still good to Lee and Clementine in my play through and she had just saved the group from the bandits attack. She only ran off with the RV because she had been tied up and probably thought the group were planning to kill her or leave her somewhere any way. If she wasn't tied up she wouldn't have stole the RV she would have gone to Savannah if she was forgiven. The only person that would of been in danger would of been Ben. She was tied to keep her from killing Ben. (I seem to recall someone else wanting to kill Ben for the same reason as her. Oh yeah it was Kenny in ep4) She was cool with everybody else. If she wanted Kenny dead he would have been dead already.
Um... actually she was also the cause of Duck getting bitten and Carley's death. Also lead to Katjaa's. She shot the bandits even after Lee made a deal with them. They could have gave them some supplies and snuck out of town. Instead, she started a fight with an army of bandits. She saved noone, and cost them lots of supplies and weapons, considering they had no time to grab everything. So being selfish and not wanting to give some to the bandits cost them not only all the supplies they were trying to protect, but cost them group members too. had she waited for the bandits to react, then she could have attacked them if necessary. Instead, they instantly lost "everything". So yeah, I wanted to leave her anyway. My first playthrough I tried to forgive her, and she not only shot Carley but stole the RV. So now, I just say screw her.
I agree.Same thing for me. My 1st play through tried to be reasonable and keep the group together with no rewinds. The more I had played I realized how selfish and unreasonable Lily really was. So if Lily shot Ben instead. I would have told her "Thanks for shootin Ben he was a liability but your still one crazy decietfull cunt" and then left her ass on the road.
You guys also have to take into account that Carley would want you to leave her behind. Doug, however, would pressure you to bring her along.
At the end of the day Kenny tried to kill Ben at the school. If he wasn't stopped by Lee he would have beat him to death. Kenny actually supports and praises your decision to let Ben die in ep4 if you don't save him. If Kenny wasn't with stood he would have killed Ben. Would people have tied up Kenny or left him at Crawford for killing Ben? Hell no. Why did Lilly want Ben dead? Because she blamed him for the assault on the motor inn. Why did Kenny want to kill Ben? Because he blamed Ben for the assault on the motor inn which led to the death of his family. Ben was Lilly's original target, Carly got caught in the cross fire metaphorically speaking. Lilly projected her anger for what Ben did onto Carly when she aggravated her. I loved Carly but if the group had been encouraging Carly to be quiet she would of lived longer.
I'd leave her behind. It's still killing a group member.
Would you of left Kenny behind if he had killed Ben in the school in ep 4? Kenny wanted Ben dead at that point in the game and was willing to take his life, not for the good of the group but out of revenge. Lilly never sought revenge after Kenny killed her dad. She wanted Ben out of the group, one way or another for the good of the group. The only reason Kenny didn't kill Ben was because the game allowed us to intervene and stop him. Lilly was willing to kill Ben in one part of the game and Kenny was willing to kill him in another.
At the end of the day Kenny tried to kill Ben at the school. If he wasn't stopped by Lee he would have beat him to death. Kenny actually supports and praises your decision to let Ben die in ep4 if you don't save him. If Kenny wasn't with stood he would have killed Ben. Would people have tied up Kenny or left him at Crawford for killing Ben? Hell no. Why did Lilly want Ben dead? Because she blamed him for the assault on the motor inn. Why did Kenny want to kill Ben? Because he blamed Ben for the assault on the motor inn which led to the death of his family. Ben was Lilly's original target, Carly got caught in the cross fire metaphorically speaking. Lilly projected her anger for what Ben did onto Carly when she aggravated her. I loved Carly but if the group had been encouraging Carly to be quiet she would of lived longer.
No offense thats bullshit. Lily wanted to kill Ben for stealing meds and dealing with bandits. Kenny wanted to kill Ben for Duck/Kat. Kenny has a good reason to want him dead. Lily wants to kill him because he stole not a good reason to kill him. If you loved Carly why would you tell her to be quiet. Carly is one of the most level headed people in the group. That is just stupid." Hey Carly can you be quiet we are listening to the crazy person thats gonna kill one of us."
I can't believe some people would consider taking that psychotic, cowardly, backstabbing, hypocritical murderer with them.
She was willing to shoot and succeed in killing an innocent person based on a hunch whether it was Carley or Ben, all she had was accusations, not enough to prove someone of stealing from them besides, she mainly killed Carley because she called Lilly out on what she is. Leaving her to fend for herself was the only humane way of punishing her for her crime. Taking her with you is basically rewarding her and a stab in the back to Carley/Doug who you had gotten close with and had your back. Besides, you take her, she steals the RV from under your nose, possibly killing everyone else but her.
If I had the option, I would've killed her on the spot. She's better off dead.
Um... actually she was also the cause of Duck getting bitten and Carley's death. Also lead to Katjaa's. She shot the bandits even after Lee made a deal with them. They could have gave them some supplies and snuck out of town. Instead, she started a fight with an army of bandits. She saved noone, and cost them lots of supplies and weapons, considering they had no time to grab everything. So being selfish and not wanting to give some to the bandits cost them not only all the supplies they were trying to protect, but cost them group members too. had she waited for the bandits to react, then she could have attacked them if necessary. Instead, they instantly lost "everything". So yeah, I wanted to leave her anyway. My first playthrough I tried to forgive her, and she not only shot Carley but stole the RV. So now, I just say screw her.
No Lee was only pretending to negotiate with them to buy Lilly time to shoot the bandits. He was instructed to tell them whatever he could to keep them busy. Lee knew Lilly was going to shoot the bandits before he started talking. Compromise was never an option or a consideration for Lee. These people had Clem at gun point. The last person that had Clem at Gun point was Andy and Lee wanted him dead after that,even if the brothers didn't die by his hand.
Lilly had her issues for sure, but credit where credit is due. Lilly had foresight and instinct that others didn't. If she was in the Matrix she'd be the oracle. She was believed to be paranoid when she said supplies were going missing, she was right. She was believed to be paranoid when her hunch told her it was Ben, again she was right. She just handled it wrong. Again I say credit where credit is due, it was her leadership and ability to plan under pressure that saved the group from the bandits in the first place. Rick looses his mind when he looses his wife in the comics and show but when it mattered he was still an effective leader. Even after breaking down Lilly was alert when it mattered most. Lee was panicking and shitting himself when she pointed out that the others were held hostage. Of the two she had the clear head and told him to keep them busy as a distraction like a smoke screen so she could use her Riffle.
No offense thats bullshit. Lily wanted to kill Ben for stealing meds and dealing with bandits. Kenny wanted to kill Ben for Duck/Kat. Kenny has a good reason to want him dead. Lily wants to kill him because he stole not a good reason to kill him. If you loved Carly why would you tell her to be quiet. Carly is one of the most level headed people in the group. That is just stupid." Hey Carly can you be quiet we are listening to the crazy person thats gonna kill one of us."
You misunderstand me. You would tell someone that you cared for to be quiet even if they are in the right for their safety. If I am trying to stop a fight I may try to reach the person that I would have more influence over and even more so if that person is in danger from the less rationale person in the argument.
Regarding anger management I speak from experience since I help children and young people with emotional and behavioral problems so I deal with conflict all the time when one young person wants to harm the other. If I saw one of them at boiling point, ready to snap I would definitely take the other one away to defuse the situation having identified them as the trigger for the other's anger. Furthermore anyone worth their weight in gold would know that it is never wise to argue with a fool, a crazy person or a drunk because your words fall on deaf ears. They are not in the right frame of mind to take in what your saying. Carly's words were right but were not for the right time.
As for Lilly's motives you miss the bigger picture. She would not have reacted as extreme if the bandit assault didn't happen. It was not just about the supplies, her anger would have also been fueled by the fact that they were forced to leave their safe haven and much of their belongings and Lilly didn't want to leave the motor inn in the first place.
Regarding Kenny wanting to kill Ben, the only difference between Kenny and Lilly is that we were allowed to intervene and stop him. He, like Lilly blamed Ben for the events. Whatever their reasons for wanting to kill Ben were, they would have both been guilty of killing a group member. The question I posed was would people of kicked out Kenny from the group if he was successful in killing Ben in ep 4 as he could just have easily, had Lee not of been scripted to intervene. The question was rhetorical as I new the answer.
i can't believe some people would consider taking that psychotic, cowardly, backstabbing, hypocritical murderer with them.
She was willing to shoot and succeed in killing an innocent person based on a hunch whether it was carley or ben, all she had was accusations, not enough to prove someone of stealing from them besides, she mainly killed carley because she called lilly out on what she is. Leaving her to fend for herself was the only humane way of punishing her for her crime. Taking her with you is basically rewarding her and a stab in the back to carley/doug who you had gotten close with and had your back. Besides, you take her, she steals the rv from under your nose, possibly killing everyone else but her.
If i had the option, i would've killed her on the spot. She's better off dead.
Lily is threating Ben and Carly. Carly has ever rite to speak. Lily does not care what Lee says. Nor does she care about anyone but herself. Lily abandoned Lee 30 mins later. The fact is Carly told Lily the truth and Lily shot her. It is that simple. Carly had stop talking when Lily shot her. In the back of the head I might add. Coward move. The only way Lee could of stopped this is shooting Lily himself. That should of been an option.
No Lee was only pretending to negotiate with them to buy Lilly time to shoot the bandits. He was instructed to tell them whatever he could to keep them busy. Lee knew Lilly was going to shoot the bandits before he started talking. Compromise was never an option or a consideration for Lee. These people had Clem at gun point. The last person that had Clem at Gun point was Andy and Lee wanted him dead after that,even if the brothers didn't die by his hand.
Lilly had her issues for sure, but credit where credit is due. Lilly had foresight and instinct that others didn't. If she was in the Matrix she'd be the oracle. She was believed to be paranoid when she said supplies were going missing, she was right. She was believed to be paranoid when her hunch told her it was Ben, again she was right. She just handled it wrong. Again I say credit where credit is due, it was her leadership and ability to plan under pressure that saved the group from the bandits in the first place. Rick looses his mind when he looses his wife in the comics and show but when it mattered he was still an effective leader. Even after breaking down Lilly was alert when it mattered most. Lee was panicking and shitting himself when she pointed out that the others were held hostage. Of the two she had the clear head and told him to keep them busy as a distraction like a smoke screen so she could use her Riffle.
No, her anger got the best of her. Play the episode again, if you chose Carley, Lilly will go directly against her. She will try to convince Ben to agree Carley was the traitor. She actively went against her for no fuckin' reason. She threatened her several times, and only after Carley defended herself did Lilly kill her(with her back turned, of course).
You misunderstand me. You would tell someone that you cared for to be quiet even if they are in the right for their safety. If I am trying to stop a fight I may try to reach the person that I would have more influence over and even more so if that person is in danger from the less rationale person in the argument.
Regarding anger management I speak from experience since I help children and young people with emotional and behavioral problems so I deal with conflict all the time when one young person might want to harm the other. If I saw one of them at boiling point, ready to snap I would definitely take the other one away to defuse the situation having identified them as the trigger for the other's anger.
As for Lilly's motives you miss the bigger picture. She would not have reacted as extreme if the bandit assault didn't happen. It was not just about the supplies, her anger would have also been fueled by the fact that they were forced to leave their safe haven and much of their belongings and Lilly didn't want to leave the motor inn in the first place.
Regarding Kenny wanting to kill Ben, the only difference between Kenny and Lilly is that we were allowed to intervene and stop him. He, like Lilly blamed Ben for the events. Whatever their reasons for wanting to kill Ben were, they would have both been guilty of killing a group member. The question I posed was would people of kicked out Kenny from the group if he was successful in killing Ben in ep 4 as he could just have easily, had Lee not of been scripted to intervene.
NO, Lilly ACCUSED Ben of stealing supplies and betraying the group. She even tried to kill Ben with no evidence. She plain murdered Carley and tried to kill Ben(killed Doug). She tries to kill while the person is unaware. She also tried to justify it b saying "couldn't be trusted". YOU can't be trusted!
Kenny blames Ben for his family's deaths, which was legitimate. He caused the bandit attack, and Kenny would have had everyone on the RV if certain people weren't set on staying. Ben let the bandits in, for he was on watch. He had a gun on-hand, yet didn't defend the group. He ran like a coward instead of covering the rest of the group. He even lied about being innocent, causing Carley's/Doug's death and Lilly's departure. He then helped cause Chuck's death, and Brie's just after Ben's confessions. He even put Clementine's life at risk. Kenny wanting him killed was reasonable, and considering he had just found out, and Ben CONFESSED, I can understand why Kenny would be pissed and would want him dead at that time. And if you keep Ben alive, ken will later realize he was wrong to want so, was glad you were the one in the position to save him. He will then sacrifice himself defending Ben. Lilly's reasoning is nowhere in the same league as Kenny's. Kenny had reasons, Lilly had guesses/assumptions. Lilly had no right to kill him anyway, because it is 'inhumane'.
Comments
I really liked Lilly, but I also loved Ben. :{
I think in the heat of the moment, I'd leave her because I'd be filled with sadness and rage, then reload and take her with me, then reload and leave her, then reload, etc.
Pretty much.
Once Lilly has murdered a member of the group in cold blood, without proof of involvement with the bandits and without input from the other members of the group, she has revealed herself to be completely unhinged and a danger to the rest of the group.
Regardless of what Lee may think about Carley or Doug or Ben, his first priority is keeping Clem safe. And he can't do that if there is a loose cannon in the group who may kill other members over the slightest provocation.
For Clem's sake, Lilly needs to be left on the side of that road.
Lily proved herself to be nothing more than a loose cannon. Kenny was right to ask how long it would be before she shot him.
I never liked Ben and never really felt he was part of the group. His mind always seemed else where even when Clem was trying to engage him. The amount of people who died or nearly died because of that one man. Kenny wouldn't of killed Larry if Ben didn't scare him about the dead coming back without being bitten, Kat and Duck wouldn't have died if he told the group the bandits were coming ahead of time, Carly/Doug wouldn't have died if he didn't keep his involvement in the stolen supplies secret, Chuck wouldn't have died if if Ben ran with Clem instead of leaving her behind, Bree wouldn't of died if Ben didn't take the axe from the door handle which also nearly caused Molly's death and Kenny would have been alive if Ben didn't beg him to stay with him so he didn't die alone when the walkers were coming. Ben was responsible for group members deaths in every episode since his arrival in episode 2.
Plus, Ben's utter ineptitude doesn't show itself fully until episode 4.
Ben was only with the group for a week how attached to him could they have really of been? I would of been closer to Lily than Ben any way. After 3 months Lily was like family, after a week Ben was still like an acquaintance, an outsider, shady, mysterious and distant. In episode 2 the plan was never for him to stay in the group anyway. He was going to stay until his friend/M.r Parker was well enough to leave with him. That was what Lily and I had discussed.
In Carly's case it was different for me since I had lived with her for 3 months also and had been through more with her than the other adult characters in the game. When I saw her death I was furious so I left Lily behind in my first play through. Carly was my closest adult companion and she was innocent unlike Ben. I think the relationship you have with the person killed and their killer comes into play. I had no relationship with Ben so I would have been more forgivable. I was close to Carly so I wasn't so forgivable. Even Rick in the comics covered up what Tyreese did when Tyreese killed his daughter's boyfriend in anger for him killing his daughter. Rick didn't tell the other group members because of his relationship with Tyreese. Had that of been Axel, Dexter or any of the other newly added group members Rick may have acted differently. Rick comforted Tyreese in his anger, like wise I would comfort Lily in hers if she had killed Ben, but if she killed Carly it would be me that would need the comforting so on impulse of anger I would react harshly to Lily because of my bond with Carly.
Who knows, she might kill others to fix things in her opinion. So I'll still leave that piece of crap in the road. She's a threat also.
Lilly es peligroso.
Yeah, it was his own fault people died, so Lilly taking care of him wouldn't mind me.
It's a she, so it's "Lilly es peligrosa!".
The only difference would be Doug would be alive instead of Ben
In a way that would be worse as there would always be the suspicion of who was the traitor and we will never know.
I'd still have saved her but I would probably conspire more with her to try and find out who the real traitor was and she may have not left and I may have accused Kenny and punished them both...
Ben was on watch and he didn't tell Lee's group the bandits were coming. The whole point to him being on the RV roof was to alert Lee's group of approaching threats. He said nothing which makes him a traitor in my books. He probably hoped they would have taken the stash secretly and left. The thing is the bandits didn't know that the rest of the group didn't know about the deal that they made with Ben. At some point Ben would have had to of met with them in secret, hence all the sneaking around with the flash light which he broke and lied about. In my play through he lied terribly and at times got angry with me for suggesting his involvement even though I told him I wouldn't be upset if it was him that broke the flash light so I don't buy the the whole he was young and scared argument. He trusted and respected Lee. He probably new the group would not go along with the deal if they knew about it and he didn't want to risk his friends in the bandits captivity coming to harm. The same way Clem hid the fact she was talking to the stranger from the group because she knew the group would not agree to go to him and he promised to reunite her with her parents. They both kept secrets from the group to get what they wanted the difference is Clem is only a 9 year old girl and didn't lie to the group at all.
It would have been better for the group if Ben hadn't been dealing with the bandits. The group would of known what they were up against and would have been prepared in stead of getting complacent and letting their guard down. If the group were stationed in one of the upstairs apartments they would have had higher ground and the advantage over the bandits. The bandits wouldn't know how many were in Lee's group or how many guns they had if they couldn't see them. The reason Lee's people were out in the open is because they were oblivious to the threat of the bandits. They assumed the bandits had left them alone or died out.
Kenny was only fixing the RV so he could take his family and anyone he liked to the coast. The rest of the group weren't planning to leave if they were they would have just used Kenny's pick up truck. They were forced to leave because they were caught unawares and their safe haven was compromised which wouldn't of happened if they were prepared and aware that the bandits were still out there.
Even though she saved Kenny at that point he still tried to drive off without her.
If the group had thanked her for saving them and praised her leadership maybe that whole scene with Ben/Carly/Doug would have played out differently. Appreciation goes along way.
I agree.Same thing for me. My 1st play through tried to be reasonable and keep the group together with no rewinds. The more I had played I realized how selfish and unreasonable Lily really was. So if Lily shot Ben instead. I would have told her "Thanks for shootin Ben he was a liability but your still one crazy decietfull cunt" and then left her ass on the road.
No offense thats bullshit. Lily wanted to kill Ben for stealing meds and dealing with bandits. Kenny wanted to kill Ben for Duck/Kat. Kenny has a good reason to want him dead. Lily wants to kill him because he stole not a good reason to kill him. If you loved Carly why would you tell her to be quiet. Carly is one of the most level headed people in the group. That is just stupid." Hey Carly can you be quiet we are listening to the crazy person thats gonna kill one of us."
You are my hero.
Lilly had her issues for sure, but credit where credit is due. Lilly had foresight and instinct that others didn't. If she was in the Matrix she'd be the oracle. She was believed to be paranoid when she said supplies were going missing, she was right. She was believed to be paranoid when her hunch told her it was Ben, again she was right. She just handled it wrong. Again I say credit where credit is due, it was her leadership and ability to plan under pressure that saved the group from the bandits in the first place. Rick looses his mind when he looses his wife in the comics and show but when it mattered he was still an effective leader. Even after breaking down Lilly was alert when it mattered most. Lee was panicking and shitting himself when she pointed out that the others were held hostage. Of the two she had the clear head and told him to keep them busy as a distraction like a smoke screen so she could use her Riffle.
You misunderstand me. You would tell someone that you cared for to be quiet even if they are in the right for their safety. If I am trying to stop a fight I may try to reach the person that I would have more influence over and even more so if that person is in danger from the less rationale person in the argument.
Regarding anger management I speak from experience since I help children and young people with emotional and behavioral problems so I deal with conflict all the time when one young person wants to harm the other. If I saw one of them at boiling point, ready to snap I would definitely take the other one away to defuse the situation having identified them as the trigger for the other's anger. Furthermore anyone worth their weight in gold would know that it is never wise to argue with a fool, a crazy person or a drunk because your words fall on deaf ears. They are not in the right frame of mind to take in what your saying. Carly's words were right but were not for the right time.
As for Lilly's motives you miss the bigger picture. She would not have reacted as extreme if the bandit assault didn't happen. It was not just about the supplies, her anger would have also been fueled by the fact that they were forced to leave their safe haven and much of their belongings and Lilly didn't want to leave the motor inn in the first place.
Regarding Kenny wanting to kill Ben, the only difference between Kenny and Lilly is that we were allowed to intervene and stop him. He, like Lilly blamed Ben for the events. Whatever their reasons for wanting to kill Ben were, they would have both been guilty of killing a group member. The question I posed was would people of kicked out Kenny from the group if he was successful in killing Ben in ep 4 as he could just have easily, had Lee not of been scripted to intervene. The question was rhetorical as I new the answer.
thank you!
No, her anger got the best of her. Play the episode again, if you chose Carley, Lilly will go directly against her. She will try to convince Ben to agree Carley was the traitor. She actively went against her for no fuckin' reason. She threatened her several times, and only after Carley defended herself did Lilly kill her(with her back turned, of course).
NO, Lilly ACCUSED Ben of stealing supplies and betraying the group. She even tried to kill Ben with no evidence. She plain murdered Carley and tried to kill Ben(killed Doug). She tries to kill while the person is unaware. She also tried to justify it b saying "couldn't be trusted". YOU can't be trusted!
Kenny blames Ben for his family's deaths, which was legitimate. He caused the bandit attack, and Kenny would have had everyone on the RV if certain people weren't set on staying. Ben let the bandits in, for he was on watch. He had a gun on-hand, yet didn't defend the group. He ran like a coward instead of covering the rest of the group. He even lied about being innocent, causing Carley's/Doug's death and Lilly's departure. He then helped cause Chuck's death, and Brie's just after Ben's confessions. He even put Clementine's life at risk. Kenny wanting him killed was reasonable, and considering he had just found out, and Ben CONFESSED, I can understand why Kenny would be pissed and would want him dead at that time. And if you keep Ben alive, ken will later realize he was wrong to want so, was glad you were the one in the position to save him. He will then sacrifice himself defending Ben. Lilly's reasoning is nowhere in the same league as Kenny's. Kenny had reasons, Lilly had guesses/assumptions. Lilly had no right to kill him anyway, because it is 'inhumane'.