I am surprised at how many people are not so happy with how the choices affect the game. I have been a long time gamer and this is the one game that I feel your decisions actually matter. Mass Effect and other games dont really give me the full impact of your choice. I rated it a ten, out of all the games I have ever played, this game is one of my all time favorites.
They dont effect the plot at all and in that case they dont matter. The same things always happen regardless of your choices. Shawn will always die, Larry will always die, If you save Ben he dies about half an hour of game play later, If you take Lilly with you she leaves about 5 minutes later. Carley or Doug was fairly different in their defense, but in the end again, you only buy one them time and by episode 4 there's no impact. I think people wanted to have more effect on how things eventually turned out. Who lived/died etc.
In the end all the choices do is change some dialogue about how some of other characters feel/felt about you.
Dont get me wrong though this game is still one of the greats as a narrative experience, but you dont have as much control as you're led to believe.
They dont effect the plot at all and in that case they dont matter. The same things always happen regardless of your choices. Shawn will always die, Larry will always die, If you save Ben he dies about half an hour of game play later, If you take Lilly with you she leaves about 5 minutes later. Carley or Doug was fairly different in their defense, but in the end again, you only buy one them time and by episode 4 there's no impact. I think people wanted to have more effect on how things eventually turned out. Who lived/died etc.
In the end all the choices do is change some dialogue about how some of other characters feel/felt about you.
Dont get me wrong though this game is still one of the greats as a narrative experience, but you dont have as much control as you're led to believe.
What I find hypocritical though is the fact there are only 2 games that allow people the kind of freedom where choices actually change the game.
1. Alpha Protocol - The best example made in the history of gaming as for as how your choices effect the story. Yet, this game flopped because people couldn't understand it was an RPG 1st, not a shooter.
Alpha Protocol is a top 10 game of all time for what it managed to do with the story and how you effect it.
2. Witcher 2 - Now I have not actually played this, but from what I heard/read it is in this discussion.
Now, besides these two exceptions, the kind of game people are asking for does not exist. And people don't realize how impossible it is to develop something like those 2 without a huge triple A budget and years of time.
Games like Mass Effect, Dues Ex: HR and others that are popular offer about as much freedom as this one does. If games like these get praised for offering "Options" then this game should blow em out of the water.
I don't know, I see a lot of conflation of choice and plot here. IRL, we make choices every day, but how much control do we have over the outcome? Some of the complaints about lack of choice read more like a desire for lack of consequence. I'm reminded of a dialogue exchange (regarding choice in games) in David Cronenberg's Existenz:
Ted: Free will... is obviously not a big factor in this little world of ours.
Allegra: It's like real life. There's just enough to make it interesting.
What I find hypocritical though is the fact there are only 2 games that allow people the kind of freedom where choices actually change the game.
1. Alpha Protocol - The best example made in the history of gaming as for as how your choices effect the story. Yet, this game flopped because people couldn't understand it was an RPG 1st, not a shooter.
Alpha Protocol is a top 10 game of all time for what it managed to do with the story and how you effect it.
2. Witcher 2 - Now I have not actually played this, but from what I heard/read it is in this discussion.
Now, besides these two exceptions, the kind of game people are asking for does not exist. And people don't realize how impossible it is to develop something like those 2 without a huge triple A budget and years of time.
Games like Mass Effect, Dues Ex: HR and others that are popular offer about as much freedom as this one does. If games like these get praised for offering "Options" then this game should blow em out of the water.
Alpha Protocol (in my opinion) flopped because whoever made it has never used a mouse and keyboard before (at least playing the game), the hacking mini game was impossible with a mouse and keyboard.
anyway i think people want just slightly more variation when making different choices and a few that actually have a large impact on the narrative, obviously that means more work for telltale but it's not impossible especially now they have a fan base and know the time and money invested will get rewarded (with more money)
Alright, just finished the game - so decided to write a short review (sorry for my English).
I played the game for one time only without amending any of my decisions (playing like this adds much more reality to the plot). At the end I was pretty happy with most of them even though people here say that you can’t really deviate from the main line and that the ending is always the same
I liked how the game forces you to speculate and make predictions about different characters but then makes you realize how you were wrong:
> I didn’t really trust the farmers but them being cannibals, man, that was unpredictable! I also did not expect the guy with a bottle to die the way he died (same with Katy’s suicide and Doug’s awkward death)
> I also liked how the stealing from a car in the second episode is returning to you in sort of karma/butterfly effect way in 5th.
Some things I didn’t really get:
> I didn’t like how that cancer patients and the doctor turned their backs on us so suddenly and took the boat.
> The way Ken dies with Ben was quite underdeveloped for me and felt stupid.
> The villain’s story was rushed as well.
All in all, thanks TT for making such a wonderful story with unforgettable experience. Definitely, one of the best games for me in terms of drama and emotions.
Episode 5 was upsetting and unsettling as weird as it sounds for me. I didn't like the idea of Lee dying at all, Lee was my most favourite character other than Clementine in the entire game series. The character development really began to grow on me and I loved every minute of it until it came to an end which I'm very disappointed about. The whole thing about Kenny in the alley too with Ben, I mean I think it may of been pretty obvious that Ben didn't stand a chance in surviving that scene but there's always a one in a million chance that maybe someone has survived this whole thing. It really makes you think. Kenny? Lily? Christa and Omid? What is Clementine's next move, her parents and Lee are dead. So what now? Does she just go along with Christa and Omid (if they're both okay of course) The possibilities are all there. I guess we're all just going to have to hold on out until Season two? If there is one, someone fill me in on this!
The ONLY thing I wish I could have said to Clementine when Lee was dying is "I love you Clementine (and) I'll miss you".
I know, and I'm glad, we got to say the option to say "I'll miss you". But it tore my heart out not being able to get that chance to say it. I guess it was for the best since she had just seen her parents as walkers? It would be too much or taken the wrong way?
Ending
I remember seeing one of the creators saying the first thing he asks people is what they did at the end, whether they told Clementine to shoot or not, and why. In the dialogue before the choice she is aware that the only way not to turn is to be shot in the head. So I, in turn, did not say anything because I felt like it was her choice to make whether or not she wanted to shoot me. I was giving her that choice because she was going to have to do it on her own after Lee's death.
Story Line
The Farm
I was surprised that I when I talked to the brothers at the farm (when the electric fence came on) that I wasn't allowed to call out the older brother when he said "I thought when I heard him yell he was giving me the all clear" But it wasn't until after the fence came on that Mark yelped and got shot by an arrow.
This is random but I loved the fact they used a Georgia Quarter in the meat locker scene. I definitely appreciate those little details.
The Stranger
One of my favorite parts in the story is when Lee is confronted by the stranger that kidnaps Clementine. It's wonderful that you are confronted by the choices you made by an actual character. He almost embodies a God character. Not only that but all of those decisions you made (potentially) were to keep Clementine safe, but it was with those choices that she, in turn, becomes kidnapped. LOVE, LOVE, LOVE the metaphorical twist on that.
Over All on Game and Game Play
Beautiful writing, voice acting, intensity, character development. There is no other game out there like it. even with the couple of glitches I encountered it was nothing that drew me away from the game.
I know a lot of people say that they wish the options really did "change" things but I think it somewhat reflects life. It's so much more about how you want to live with your decisions even if there is no way of changing the inevitable. I enjoyed the fact that the company was able to work with the capabilities they had and made a wonderful game with the limitations of not having completely different branching endings.
Also the game say it "adapts" to you choices, not necessarily changes, so it warns you. But man do I love those small references, in future conversations you have with people, that really ties it all in. I feel like I really was developing relationships with these characters.
Season 2:
I'm sure the creators of this game will only produce a sequel that not only lives up to this breathtaking game but also will be even better.
All I can hope for is that they take their time with the game and not rush through it. I'd rather wait for awesomeness!
Final Thoughts
This game has been haunting me since I finished it a few days ago. No book, movie, tv show, or game has ever done that to me. So more props to you.
Also I told my Mom about this (I don't live to far from her) and she wanted to play it but is terrible at controls in video games. So we made a deal that I'll control the movement etc. and she picks all the dialogue and choices made. even she loves it haha!
At the end of the day, a good game is a good game. In truth it didn't feel like a game, but more like life . Although episode 5 did have it's disappointments, I still have to give TWD the game a 10/10! It was an incredible experience, and an entirely new way to play video games!(alothough I only played cuz TWD ) Thank you Telltale for the awesome season and I am eagerly and patiently waiting for season 2. Hopefully we can get more than a sequel out of you all xD. Until then, I wish ya luck!
In terms of the whole series; the story telling was on an epic scale. I finished the game several days ago but it's still having a real effect on me. There aren't many mediums that can do that. On that first play through, the twists and heartbreak of it all is fantastic; drawing you in emotionally, only to shatter you against the rocks before the heart-wrenching finale.
The illusion of choice was a huge gut punch though, and not in the emotional sense. I get that the game was underfunded and relatively obscure before its release, truly I do. I get that there was a desire to release it in an episodic format too, though I think I need to point out that I would really, REALLY, like the next series to have more time - or be released all at once much later - and feel more like the finished product.
Despite the many defenders of the game's 'choice', it is almost entirely an illusion. The same characters are doomed to die and the same set pieces and endings are fated to play out. Very enjoyable and emotionally for a single play through? Absolutely. Worth going back for the dialogue possibilities? Yes. However, almost nothing is actually changed beyond certain parts of the dialogue. I'm not asking for the butterfly effect, but one choice that actually produced a different outcome - beyond dialogue - isn't too much to ask for a game supposedly tailored to how you play.
It also lessens the impact on reflection, and thus your likelihood or re-engaging and becoming involved all over again. The Stranger acts the way he does whatever happens, the group have the same fates or ambiguities and so all the gut-wrenching decisions were essentially for the illusion of changing things. Why bother being moral at all? You really connect with Clementine first time around, but I can't help feeling that the experimental 'how will this make her react?' will be a more powerful urge on a replay. I have serious doubts about the next season actually recording things you said to her/ways you taught her (though this only equates to about five different lines of dialogue, given everyone's save is virtually the same after episode five).
All in all, I can't help feeling that a game like GTA4, which was never ostensibly about choice, actually gave me more of a choice. Of course, it's totally different in that killing a character just means a short cut scene and then they're gone forever... but I had several actual choices which I was free to make. Hell, you can even make a choice on the ending, which gets a different character killed depending on your choice.
The whole 'illusion of choice is an allegory for life' is - I'm sorry to say - total bull. When characters in the t.v. series die stupid, preventable, deaths (those that are good characters), it annoys me. When characters I've been crafting relationships with in a story I'm genuinely emotionally attached to die regardless, it feels like something of a betrayal.
Overall, it would probably be something I'd describe as unmissable, but it's the sort of game you may as well rent or borrow for a few days rather than buy, as the replay-ability is severely limited. It's emotionally involving right up until the end, but reflection only enhances the sense of being really let down by the idea of tailored choices. The prevalence of very lagging cutscenes/dialogue choices also detracted somewhat from the tension (when played on the PS3).
Also, people keep talking about the stranger who had Clem and that he wasn't rational in his decisions like it was a problem with the story. The guy had his wife's zombie head in a bowling bag and spoke with it like it was still his wife and they were still a family. I think it is fair to say that he wasn't all there upstairs. Holding him to any kind of logical standards went right out the window at that point.
Your point is illogical.
The character was - to my knowledge - invented and scripted for the game. As such, the 'why are you arguing about details, he was KERAAAZY' point doesn't really stand as they, y'know, wrote every aspect, including the craziness.
You also seem to misunderstand people's grievances. They aren't complaining that he wasn't rational so much as that it made no sense. All of the big decisions that relate to him are invalidated by the fact that he's just psychotic either way, which was a real letdown. This is coupled with the fact that he's just a weak character.
The reveal of his connection to the car was good, as was his little back story, but your choices should've had some impact and he didn't really hold up as the omniscient stalker. I mean, he's either been following the group since Macon (in which case when/how did the thing with the car happen, given he was with his family up until this point) or Clem told him every major point on the walkie talkie; hardly realistic when she isn't out of earshot of everyone much (I thought the radio actually working reveal didn't make much sense anyway, in terms of her supposedly having had the opportunity to talk to someone, for the very same reasons).
Numbers are a bit unfit to really judge a game with
This.
But this is true in relation to anything. People like them because they think them to be succinct, but the numerical value system for entertainment such as games and films means nothing.
I mean, line everything you've ever given a '7' to up and tell me if you think they're all of the same quality? No, the rating fluctuates and it's actually the little postscript summarising comments that mean something.
2 friends Have knows when the next season 1 Season 2 when you tell me who's gonna be an additional stage of the season lee die? kenny alive? Clementina omid please tell me who knows what's going on clementaina the end I think getting rid of crista
Para mi gusto el primero fue un 10 de calificación pero bajo conforme avanzan los demás episodios, porque se convirtió en una copia de un libro, por ahí leí no hay finales felices, tal vez es verdad pero honestamente creo que existen personas que habrían hecho más en ayudar que morderse las orejas, tienes los atentaros la gente no se mata entre ellos se ayudan, y ustedes dieron un giro donde cada quien ve por sí mismo al grado de lastimar sin importar edad, sexo, etc. Yo le dispare al infeliz del tipo, a Lee no lo espose ni lo mate, porque tal vez se desmallo por cortarle el brazo imagínate quien no se desmaya simplemente no se recuperó por la pérdida de sangre, como vean no me gusto el final
I loved the game. I would buy the second season sight unseen. I felt deeply for the characters, and the only other game that came close to creating such an experience for me was Amnesia: The Dark Descent. I certainly am more connected to this story than the TV series, although I enjoy that, too. Regrets? Letting the bell zombie kill Ben. Telling Christa and Omid to "come down and find us". I'm glad Clem's alive, but I wonder if saving her was a kindness at all.
This game made me actually feel for the characters. The tv show kinda shows everyone as being a self serving dick hole. This has been a favorite story in a game or tv show so far this year(counting 2012) I really liked everything about the game. The only negative aspects yeah, not really being able to save some of the characters you save because they just die anyway and things like that but Telltale did it so beautifully I'm okay with it. That and I couldn't read all the text options quick enough, sometimes i had to rush and just choose because with out being able to read all of them. Other than that great game. I really hope they keep up with the surviving characters of this game, at least finish Clementines story.
I am probably one of their greatest fans. Telltale did a very good job With the walking dead. I was probably one of the first to get the 1st episode and the rest of them. I have rated it 10/10 for their amazing effort and achievment. WELL DONE TELLTALE!!!
All in all, I felt the game did what any good game with a role playing aspect should do: immerse you and tell a great story. Yes, ultimately the choices didn't affect the major plot points, but since I've just played through it once, obviously there were 7 different parties that could have gone into the last episode with you, so that would change dialogue during that episode (I had Kenny, Omid and Christa - I had no problem killing Ben myself after he caused so many other great characters to die... Well, I say I had no problem, until I had to explain myself to Clem). That in itself is worth another couple runs.
I was upset when I discovered chopping off Lee's arm didn't save him, but didn't Ben already tell you that it's not necessarily the bite that does it? I mean, yeah, obviously the bite is gonna give you a nasty infection but antibiotics may have saved you. But, there are no antibiotics because Vernon and his crew took 'em all, so it's either get a blood infection from the wound or lob off a limb and hope for the best? Not surprised that it weakened Lee to the point of dying, he probably lost a load of blood anyway, and frankly even if cutting off his arm would have saved him, he went all action hero working through to save Clem that he got splattered with so much walker blood, that woulda given him something nasty anyway with that open wound. Maybe I'm over thinking it to justify his death to myself.
I think my favorite episode was ep. 2. Man, it was creepy, and almost had a Silence of the Lambs feel to it - I half expected to find someone crying in a well once I picked the lock in the barn. I thought it was great how the mom's comeuppance was the guy she made leg-roast out of. She ate him... he ate her. Karma's a bitch.
Yes, the choices made didn't affect the line of the plot. I get that. But the game wasn't an open world game, it had a linear plot, but the choices did appear to change how the different characters felt about you, and made you have to choose what type of person you were going to be. It reminds me of a portion of Chrono Trigger. Bear with me here. In the beginning of Chrono Trigger at the Millenium Fair when you meet Marle, you have some different choices you can make. They all seem completely inconsequential... Until after you rescue her in the year 600 and come back. When you get arrested and go on trial, those choices you make affect whether or not you are found guilty or innocent. It doesn't change whether or not you go to jail (either for an execution or solitary confinement), but it did affect dialogue throughout that sequence. That's how Campman's sequence felt to me - it brought back the choices you made and threw them in your face. I didn't take the food, but my party did. I was too slow and Clem ate human meat. I had to choose to save one person's life at the expense of another's. To me, it didn't feel cobbled together, it felt like this person was making Lee reflect on the choices he made.
I, personally, can't wait for Season 2. I would like to see Omid and Christa back. I hope that Kenny lived (but I doubt it). I would like to see Molly again. I want to see the fact that I didn't have Clem put a bullet in Lee's brain means that Clem sees an armless Lee as a walker. In fact, I wouldn't mind seeing all the people I sacrificed (that didn't end up with a bashed in skull) come back as crap I gotta kill - not necessarily that we'd be back on Hershel's farm, or in Macon, or in Savannah... But hey, that's what they'd be anyway, right?
Overall, I gave it a solid 9. I will play through again, just for the different dialogue experiences, and to try to get the different parties to come with me at the end.
All in all, I felt the game did what any good game with a role playing aspect should do: immerse you and tell a great story. Yes, ultimately the choices didn't affect the major plot points, but since I've just played through it once, obviously there were 7 different parties that could have gone into the last episode with you, so that would change dialogue during that episode (I had Kenny, Omid and Christa - I had no problem killing Ben myself after he caused so many other great characters to die... Well, I say I had no problem, until I had to explain myself to Clem). That in itself is worth another couple runs.
I was upset when I discovered chopping off Lee's arm didn't save him, but didn't Ben already tell you that it's not necessarily the bite that does it? I mean, yeah, obviously the bite is gonna give you a nasty infection but antibiotics may have saved you. But, there are no antibiotics because Vernon and his crew took 'em all, so it's either get a blood infection from the wound or lob off a limb and hope for the best? Not surprised that it weakened Lee to the point of dying, he probably lost a load of blood anyway, and frankly even if cutting off his arm would have saved him, he went all action hero working through to save Clem that he got splattered with so much walker blood, that woulda given him something nasty anyway with that open wound. Maybe I'm over thinking it to justify his death to myself.
I think my favorite episode was ep. 2. Man, it was creepy, and almost had a Silence of the Lambs feel to it - I half expected to find someone crying in a well once I picked the lock in the barn. I thought it was great how the mom's comeuppance was the guy she made leg-roast out of. She ate him... he ate her. Karma's a bitch.
Yes, the choices made didn't affect the line of the plot. I get that. But the game wasn't an open world game, it had a linear plot, but the choices did appear to change how the different characters felt about you, and made you have to choose what type of person you were going to be. It reminds me of a portion of Chrono Trigger. Bear with me here. In the beginning of Chrono Trigger at the Millenium Fair when you meet Marle, you have some different choices you can make. They all seem completely inconsequential... Until after you rescue her in the year 600 and come back. When you get arrested and go on trial, those choices you make affect whether or not you are found guilty or innocent. It doesn't change whether or not you go to jail (either for an execution or solitary confinement), but it did affect dialogue throughout that sequence. That's how Campman's sequence felt to me - it brought back the choices you made and threw them in your face. I didn't take the food, but my party did. I was too slow and Clem ate human meat. I had to choose to save one person's life at the expense of another's. To me, it didn't feel cobbled together, it felt like this person was making Lee reflect on the choices he made.
I, personally, can't wait for Season 2. I would like to see Omid and Christa back. I hope that Kenny lived (but I doubt it). I would like to see Molly again. I want to see the fact that I didn't have Clem put a bullet in Lee's brain means that Clem sees an armless Lee as a walker. In fact, I wouldn't mind seeing all the people I sacrificed (that didn't end up with a bashed in skull) come back as crap I gotta kill - not necessarily that we'd be back on Hershel's farm, or in Macon, or in Savannah... But hey, that's what they'd be anyway, right?
Overall, I gave it a solid 9. I will play through again, just for the different dialogue experiences, and to try to get the different parties to come with me at the end.
Something tells me you never watched the show or read the comics lol.
It's not the bite that kills, necessarily. If you die, you turn. No ifs, ands, or buts(so far as we know). The bite will kill you because of the infection, no antibiotic can stop that. However, chopping off the infected part will stop it from spreading. However, apparently Lee took too long, or he lost too much blood, or he simply got infected another way.
Also, Hershel's farm should be destroyed by now, or close to it. Hershel and everyone will have left, and there may be some walkers. If lucky, some of the old cast might be there though(no spoils).
The different people that go with you in the end really don't matter. One of the interesting changes is if you save Ben though
Also, welcome to the forums.
Something tells me you never watched the show or read the comics lol.
It's not the bite that kills, necessarily. If you die, you turn. No ifs, ands, or buts(so far as we know). The bite will kill you because of the infection, no antibiotic can stop that. However, chopping off the infected part will stop it from spreading. However, apparently Lee took too long, or he lost too much blood, or he simply got infected another way.
Also, Hershel's farm should be destroyed by now, or close to it. Hershel and everyone will have left, and there may be some walkers. If lucky, some of the old cast might be there though(no spoils).
The different people that go with you in the end really don't matter. One of the interesting changes is if you save Ben though
Also, welcome to the forums.
Thanks. No, I haven't seen the show (it's definitely on the list, though) and I only have a cursory knowledge of TWD's world, but that pretty much answered most of my point except for the antibiotics part, and who's to say the characters still living that were with you once you got bitten knew that? That's kind of what I mean. They did what they had to do to save him, but I really think going all Rambo at the end really exacerbated the problem for him. Adrenaline'll get ya every time.
So far as my point about Hershel's farm, I just mean that if anything's there still, it'd be walkers. So you may see him as one, or Shaun as one, that sort of thing. Like I said, I don't really foresee going back there or anything.
And I know who goes during the last episode doesn't matter so far as the linear story, but it does change the conversations that happen, so there's bits and pieces of story that I may not have heard the first time that I might hear the second time. Same as choosing Carley instead of Doug -- I wouldn't have picked Doug had I realized Carley didn't have any bullets left, I thought she'd be able to save herself and I had to save the weakling. I know they both die the same way but the dialog and character interactions are different so that's worth a second run-through. Same with saving Ben rather than offing him. That's why there's a second run-through appeal, and even more than that - to answer things different ways or to have different people in my group.
Thanks. No, I haven't seen the show (it's definitely on the list, though) and I only have a cursory knowledge of TWD's world, but that pretty much answered most of my point except for the antibiotics part, and who's to say the characters still living that were with you once you got bitten knew that? That's kind of what I mean. They did what they had to do to save him, but I really think going all Rambo at the end really exacerbated the problem for him. Adrenaline'll get ya every time.
So far as my point about Hershel's farm, I just mean that if anything's there still, it'd be walkers. So you may see him as one, or Shaun as one, that sort of thing. Like I said, I don't really foresee going back there or anything.
And I know who goes during the last episode doesn't matter so far as the linear story, but it does change the conversations that happen, so there's bits and pieces of story that I may not have heard the first time that I might hear the second time. Same as choosing Carley instead of Doug -- I wouldn't have picked Doug had I realized Carley didn't have any bullets left, I thought she'd be able to save herself and I had to save the weakling. I know they both die the same way but the dialog and character interactions are different so that's worth a second run-through. Same with saving Ben rather than offing him. That's why there's a second run-through appeal, and even more than that - to answer things different ways or to have different people in my group.
No, you won't find Shaun there, except as a dead body(not really a spoiler at this point).
Some of Rick's group return there to Hershel's, so the game may lead the group back to the farm. However, in both the comics and show, the farm was overrun by a large horde(as large as the train horde, and maybe the same one.)
The game was great i loved it. The special bonding with Clementine and Lee being her protector, friend and father-like figure made the game so special. The final scene of the game where Clementine finds out her parents are dead (they are walkers) and Lee dying and seeing Clem so distress not wanting Lee to die and when he finally dies is so sad to see Clem distress face, i chose Clem to shoot Lee before he turns and it was a very hard choose to make. It makes me so sad that she is all alone now her parents are gone, Lee is gone. I just hope she will find Christa and Omid and they will take care of her when season 2 starts. The ending after credits shows a distress, sad and all alone little girl seating in the fields all alone and in the distance she see's two figures and they stop and look at Clem direction is that Christa and Omid? or are they walkers? if they r walkers then will it be the test for her to survive in this post-apocalyptic world.
game for me is a 10/10 mainly because of Clementine and Lee & their special bonding, they are the ones that made this game so special, it wouldn't be the same without them. I feel so sad that Lee is gone now and who will Clementine grow attached to now, who will protect her? I wish he didn't die. The last scene was my favorite being it was a very strong and emotional scene, this is what games should be about...
I believe that your choices absolutely matter. Never at any point did I play the Walking Dead to get an ending. I played to experience a story and while, sure, some of those decision points were a little obvious and a little binary, the story was still mine. So I refute anyone who claims that Telltale delivered anything less than a completely personal narrative. The story is not its ending.
Also, people who think that it's a bad thing that a story can lead you down one path and trick you to another (head upstairs, find weapons, SHIT THE FRONT DOOR etc etc) aren't empathising with Lee the way the ought to. It's the apocalypse, Lee knows fuck all and ditto for you. The narrative would be worse off if the ragtag survivors could plan/tactically assess their way out of everything. Suspend your disbelief and let the narrative do its job.
Furthermore, ambiguity is the lifeblood of a good story. Sure, closure's nice but ambiguity lets you draw your own conclusions, develop your own interpretations. If they had spelled out the result of every single choice as I made them I would've been sickened. The epilogue to me felt sincere since I could close on that wondering how Clementine would develop, whether she was safe. It sticks in my mind precisely because the story ain't quite over, which is the way it will be in such a genre. (And even if a cash ploy, so what? I want Telltale to get money for this and if they want to keep that thread a bit open to exploit then I'll roll with it. Writing sequels is impossible if you close all threads. The Walking Dead ends when the zombies are done.)
Since it was so rich with variation, choice, character development and elicited honest-to-goodness emotions: 10/10.
I had to register after finishing playing this game. I have been through a lot of games and they never cracked me. TWD did it. Thanks, TellTale.
I give it a solid ten. Why? The final scene with Lee and Clem made a adult, married man cry like a little girl. Lord, I cried. I was HOPING that cutting my own arm would have give me the time, the two hours, to get Clem out of that lunatic's hand into safety. At first I had chosen Kenny. That dialog represented what I felt: the dude will do anything to anyone to keep his family alive and I wanted Clem to be safe afterall. When Kenny was MIA I told Omid and his girl to keep my little girl safe. I was hoping that I could deliver Clem to them, kiss her goodbye and just walk away and suicide far away from her so she didn't had to see me like that. Boy, I was wrong.
I kind of liked that TellTale didn't gave me that chance. I think the grandfinalle served a purpose. That last conversation with lee (always grab the gun first, you did good, always keep moving) will help her survive in this mad dog world. Killing Lee ultimately showed her that no matter how much she love someone, you never let him or her turn, that's worse than death. And also, never let yourself trapped. Never.
Anyway, I know I'm six months late on this topic but I had to say it.
Bravo, dudes. You made me cry and that was a platinum achievement for y'all.
Comments
They dont effect the plot at all and in that case they dont matter. The same things always happen regardless of your choices. Shawn will always die, Larry will always die, If you save Ben he dies about half an hour of game play later, If you take Lilly with you she leaves about 5 minutes later. Carley or Doug was fairly different in their defense, but in the end again, you only buy one them time and by episode 4 there's no impact. I think people wanted to have more effect on how things eventually turned out. Who lived/died etc.
In the end all the choices do is change some dialogue about how some of other characters feel/felt about you.
Dont get me wrong though this game is still one of the greats as a narrative experience, but you dont have as much control as you're led to believe.
What I find hypocritical though is the fact there are only 2 games that allow people the kind of freedom where choices actually change the game.
1. Alpha Protocol - The best example made in the history of gaming as for as how your choices effect the story. Yet, this game flopped because people couldn't understand it was an RPG 1st, not a shooter.
Alpha Protocol is a top 10 game of all time for what it managed to do with the story and how you effect it.
2. Witcher 2 - Now I have not actually played this, but from what I heard/read it is in this discussion.
Now, besides these two exceptions, the kind of game people are asking for does not exist. And people don't realize how impossible it is to develop something like those 2 without a huge triple A budget and years of time.
Games like Mass Effect, Dues Ex: HR and others that are popular offer about as much freedom as this one does. If games like these get praised for offering "Options" then this game should blow em out of the water.
Ted: Free will... is obviously not a big factor in this little world of ours.
Allegra: It's like real life. There's just enough to make it interesting.
Alpha Protocol (in my opinion) flopped because whoever made it has never used a mouse and keyboard before (at least playing the game), the hacking mini game was impossible with a mouse and keyboard.
anyway i think people want just slightly more variation when making different choices and a few that actually have a large impact on the narrative, obviously that means more work for telltale but it's not impossible especially now they have a fan base and know the time and money invested will get rewarded (with more money)
I played the game for one time only without amending any of my decisions (playing like this adds much more reality to the plot). At the end I was pretty happy with most of them even though people here say that you can’t really deviate from the main line and that the ending is always the same
I liked how the game forces you to speculate and make predictions about different characters but then makes you realize how you were wrong:
> I didn’t really trust the farmers but them being cannibals, man, that was unpredictable! I also did not expect the guy with a bottle to die the way he died (same with Katy’s suicide and Doug’s awkward death)
> I also liked how the stealing from a car in the second episode is returning to you in sort of karma/butterfly effect way in 5th.
Some things I didn’t really get:
> I didn’t like how that cancer patients and the doctor turned their backs on us so suddenly and took the boat.
> The way Ken dies with Ben was quite underdeveloped for me and felt stupid.
> The villain’s story was rushed as well.
All in all, thanks TT for making such a wonderful story with unforgettable experience. Definitely, one of the best games for me in terms of drama and emotions.
~Bloss
I know, and I'm glad, we got to say the option to say "I'll miss you". But it tore my heart out not being able to get that chance to say it. I guess it was for the best since she had just seen her parents as walkers? It would be too much or taken the wrong way?
Ending
I remember seeing one of the creators saying the first thing he asks people is what they did at the end, whether they told Clementine to shoot or not, and why. In the dialogue before the choice she is aware that the only way not to turn is to be shot in the head. So I, in turn, did not say anything because I felt like it was her choice to make whether or not she wanted to shoot me. I was giving her that choice because she was going to have to do it on her own after Lee's death.
Story Line
The Farm
I was surprised that I when I talked to the brothers at the farm (when the electric fence came on) that I wasn't allowed to call out the older brother when he said "I thought when I heard him yell he was giving me the all clear" But it wasn't until after the fence came on that Mark yelped and got shot by an arrow.
This is random but I loved the fact they used a Georgia Quarter in the meat locker scene. I definitely appreciate those little details.
The Stranger
One of my favorite parts in the story is when Lee is confronted by the stranger that kidnaps Clementine. It's wonderful that you are confronted by the choices you made by an actual character. He almost embodies a God character. Not only that but all of those decisions you made (potentially) were to keep Clementine safe, but it was with those choices that she, in turn, becomes kidnapped. LOVE, LOVE, LOVE the metaphorical twist on that.
Over All on Game and Game Play
Beautiful writing, voice acting, intensity, character development. There is no other game out there like it. even with the couple of glitches I encountered it was nothing that drew me away from the game.
I know a lot of people say that they wish the options really did "change" things but I think it somewhat reflects life. It's so much more about how you want to live with your decisions even if there is no way of changing the inevitable. I enjoyed the fact that the company was able to work with the capabilities they had and made a wonderful game with the limitations of not having completely different branching endings.
Also the game say it "adapts" to you choices, not necessarily changes, so it warns you. But man do I love those small references, in future conversations you have with people, that really ties it all in. I feel like I really was developing relationships with these characters.
Season 2:
I'm sure the creators of this game will only produce a sequel that not only lives up to this breathtaking game but also will be even better.
All I can hope for is that they take their time with the game and not rush through it. I'd rather wait for awesomeness!
Final Thoughts
This game has been haunting me since I finished it a few days ago. No book, movie, tv show, or game has ever done that to me. So more props to you.
Also I told my Mom about this (I don't live to far from her) and she wanted to play it but is terrible at controls in video games. So we made a deal that I'll control the movement etc. and she picks all the dialogue and choices made. even she loves it haha!
The illusion of choice was a huge gut punch though, and not in the emotional sense. I get that the game was underfunded and relatively obscure before its release, truly I do. I get that there was a desire to release it in an episodic format too, though I think I need to point out that I would really, REALLY, like the next series to have more time - or be released all at once much later - and feel more like the finished product.
Despite the many defenders of the game's 'choice', it is almost entirely an illusion. The same characters are doomed to die and the same set pieces and endings are fated to play out. Very enjoyable and emotionally for a single play through? Absolutely. Worth going back for the dialogue possibilities? Yes. However, almost nothing is actually changed beyond certain parts of the dialogue. I'm not asking for the butterfly effect, but one choice that actually produced a different outcome - beyond dialogue - isn't too much to ask for a game supposedly tailored to how you play.
It also lessens the impact on reflection, and thus your likelihood or re-engaging and becoming involved all over again. The Stranger acts the way he does whatever happens, the group have the same fates or ambiguities and so all the gut-wrenching decisions were essentially for the illusion of changing things. Why bother being moral at all? You really connect with Clementine first time around, but I can't help feeling that the experimental 'how will this make her react?' will be a more powerful urge on a replay. I have serious doubts about the next season actually recording things you said to her/ways you taught her (though this only equates to about five different lines of dialogue, given everyone's save is virtually the same after episode five).
All in all, I can't help feeling that a game like GTA4, which was never ostensibly about choice, actually gave me more of a choice. Of course, it's totally different in that killing a character just means a short cut scene and then they're gone forever... but I had several actual choices which I was free to make. Hell, you can even make a choice on the ending, which gets a different character killed depending on your choice.
The whole 'illusion of choice is an allegory for life' is - I'm sorry to say - total bull. When characters in the t.v. series die stupid, preventable, deaths (those that are good characters), it annoys me. When characters I've been crafting relationships with in a story I'm genuinely emotionally attached to die regardless, it feels like something of a betrayal.
Overall, it would probably be something I'd describe as unmissable, but it's the sort of game you may as well rent or borrow for a few days rather than buy, as the replay-ability is severely limited. It's emotionally involving right up until the end, but reflection only enhances the sense of being really let down by the idea of tailored choices. The prevalence of very lagging cutscenes/dialogue choices also detracted somewhat from the tension (when played on the PS3).
Your point is illogical.
The character was - to my knowledge - invented and scripted for the game. As such, the 'why are you arguing about details, he was KERAAAZY' point doesn't really stand as they, y'know, wrote every aspect, including the craziness.
You also seem to misunderstand people's grievances. They aren't complaining that he wasn't rational so much as that it made no sense. All of the big decisions that relate to him are invalidated by the fact that he's just psychotic either way, which was a real letdown. This is coupled with the fact that he's just a weak character.
The reveal of his connection to the car was good, as was his little back story, but your choices should've had some impact and he didn't really hold up as the omniscient stalker. I mean, he's either been following the group since Macon (in which case when/how did the thing with the car happen, given he was with his family up until this point) or Clem told him every major point on the walkie talkie; hardly realistic when she isn't out of earshot of everyone much (I thought the radio actually working reveal didn't make much sense anyway, in terms of her supposedly having had the opportunity to talk to someone, for the very same reasons).
This.
But this is true in relation to anything. People like them because they think them to be succinct, but the numerical value system for entertainment such as games and films means nothing.
I mean, line everything you've ever given a '7' to up and tell me if you think they're all of the same quality? No, the rating fluctuates and it's actually the little postscript summarising comments that mean something.
All in all, I felt the game did what any good game with a role playing aspect should do: immerse you and tell a great story. Yes, ultimately the choices didn't affect the major plot points, but since I've just played through it once, obviously there were 7 different parties that could have gone into the last episode with you, so that would change dialogue during that episode (I had Kenny, Omid and Christa - I had no problem killing Ben myself after he caused so many other great characters to die... Well, I say I had no problem, until I had to explain myself to Clem). That in itself is worth another couple runs.
I was upset when I discovered chopping off Lee's arm didn't save him, but didn't Ben already tell you that it's not necessarily the bite that does it? I mean, yeah, obviously the bite is gonna give you a nasty infection but antibiotics may have saved you. But, there are no antibiotics because Vernon and his crew took 'em all, so it's either get a blood infection from the wound or lob off a limb and hope for the best? Not surprised that it weakened Lee to the point of dying, he probably lost a load of blood anyway, and frankly even if cutting off his arm would have saved him, he went all action hero working through to save Clem that he got splattered with so much walker blood, that woulda given him something nasty anyway with that open wound. Maybe I'm over thinking it to justify his death to myself.
I think my favorite episode was ep. 2. Man, it was creepy, and almost had a Silence of the Lambs feel to it - I half expected to find someone crying in a well once I picked the lock in the barn. I thought it was great how the mom's comeuppance was the guy she made leg-roast out of. She ate him... he ate her. Karma's a bitch.
Yes, the choices made didn't affect the line of the plot. I get that. But the game wasn't an open world game, it had a linear plot, but the choices did appear to change how the different characters felt about you, and made you have to choose what type of person you were going to be. It reminds me of a portion of Chrono Trigger. Bear with me here. In the beginning of Chrono Trigger at the Millenium Fair when you meet Marle, you have some different choices you can make. They all seem completely inconsequential... Until after you rescue her in the year 600 and come back. When you get arrested and go on trial, those choices you make affect whether or not you are found guilty or innocent. It doesn't change whether or not you go to jail (either for an execution or solitary confinement), but it did affect dialogue throughout that sequence. That's how Campman's sequence felt to me - it brought back the choices you made and threw them in your face. I didn't take the food, but my party did. I was too slow and Clem ate human meat. I had to choose to save one person's life at the expense of another's. To me, it didn't feel cobbled together, it felt like this person was making Lee reflect on the choices he made.
I, personally, can't wait for Season 2. I would like to see Omid and Christa back. I hope that Kenny lived (but I doubt it). I would like to see Molly again. I want to see the fact that I didn't have Clem put a bullet in Lee's brain means that Clem sees an armless Lee as a walker. In fact, I wouldn't mind seeing all the people I sacrificed (that didn't end up with a bashed in skull) come back as crap I gotta kill - not necessarily that we'd be back on Hershel's farm, or in Macon, or in Savannah... But hey, that's what they'd be anyway, right?
Overall, I gave it a solid 9. I will play through again, just for the different dialogue experiences, and to try to get the different parties to come with me at the end.
Something tells me you never watched the show or read the comics lol.
It's not the bite that kills, necessarily. If you die, you turn. No ifs, ands, or buts(so far as we know). The bite will kill you because of the infection, no antibiotic can stop that. However, chopping off the infected part will stop it from spreading. However, apparently Lee took too long, or he lost too much blood, or he simply got infected another way.
Also, Hershel's farm should be destroyed by now, or close to it. Hershel and everyone will have left, and there may be some walkers. If lucky, some of the old cast might be there though(no spoils).
The different people that go with you in the end really don't matter. One of the interesting changes is if you save Ben though
Also, welcome to the forums.
Thanks. No, I haven't seen the show (it's definitely on the list, though) and I only have a cursory knowledge of TWD's world, but that pretty much answered most of my point except for the antibiotics part, and who's to say the characters still living that were with you once you got bitten knew that? That's kind of what I mean. They did what they had to do to save him, but I really think going all Rambo at the end really exacerbated the problem for him. Adrenaline'll get ya every time.
So far as my point about Hershel's farm, I just mean that if anything's there still, it'd be walkers. So you may see him as one, or Shaun as one, that sort of thing. Like I said, I don't really foresee going back there or anything.
And I know who goes during the last episode doesn't matter so far as the linear story, but it does change the conversations that happen, so there's bits and pieces of story that I may not have heard the first time that I might hear the second time. Same as choosing Carley instead of Doug -- I wouldn't have picked Doug had I realized Carley didn't have any bullets left, I thought she'd be able to save herself and I had to save the weakling. I know they both die the same way but the dialog and character interactions are different so that's worth a second run-through. Same with saving Ben rather than offing him. That's why there's a second run-through appeal, and even more than that - to answer things different ways or to have different people in my group.
No, you won't find Shaun there, except as a dead body(not really a spoiler at this point).
Some of Rick's group return there to Hershel's, so the game may lead the group back to the farm. However, in both the comics and show, the farm was overrun by a large horde(as large as the train horde, and maybe the same one.)
Episode 2: 9/10
Episode 3: 9/10
Episode 4: 8/10
Episode 5: ∞/10
Game: 69/10
Episode 1: 9/10
Episode 2:9.5/10
Episode 3: 9.5/10
Episode 4: 9.5/10
Episode 5; 11/10
over all it's a 10/10 and my favorite game I have ever played.
game for me is a 10/10 mainly because of Clementine and Lee & their special bonding, they are the ones that made this game so special, it wouldn't be the same without them. I feel so sad that Lee is gone now and who will Clementine grow attached to now, who will protect her? I wish he didn't die. The last scene was my favorite being it was a very strong and emotional scene, this is what games should be about...
When is season 2 coming out?
Also, people who think that it's a bad thing that a story can lead you down one path and trick you to another (head upstairs, find weapons, SHIT THE FRONT DOOR etc etc) aren't empathising with Lee the way the ought to. It's the apocalypse, Lee knows fuck all and ditto for you. The narrative would be worse off if the ragtag survivors could plan/tactically assess their way out of everything. Suspend your disbelief and let the narrative do its job.
Furthermore, ambiguity is the lifeblood of a good story. Sure, closure's nice but ambiguity lets you draw your own conclusions, develop your own interpretations. If they had spelled out the result of every single choice as I made them I would've been sickened. The epilogue to me felt sincere since I could close on that wondering how Clementine would develop, whether she was safe. It sticks in my mind precisely because the story ain't quite over, which is the way it will be in such a genre. (And even if a cash ploy, so what? I want Telltale to get money for this and if they want to keep that thread a bit open to exploit then I'll roll with it. Writing sequels is impossible if you close all threads. The Walking Dead ends when the zombies are done.)
Since it was so rich with variation, choice, character development and elicited honest-to-goodness emotions: 10/10.
I give it a solid ten. Why? The final scene with Lee and Clem made a adult, married man cry like a little girl. Lord, I cried. I was HOPING that cutting my own arm would have give me the time, the two hours, to get Clem out of that lunatic's hand into safety. At first I had chosen Kenny. That dialog represented what I felt: the dude will do anything to anyone to keep his family alive and I wanted Clem to be safe afterall. When Kenny was MIA I told Omid and his girl to keep my little girl safe. I was hoping that I could deliver Clem to them, kiss her goodbye and just walk away and suicide far away from her so she didn't had to see me like that. Boy, I was wrong.
I kind of liked that TellTale didn't gave me that chance. I think the grandfinalle served a purpose. That last conversation with lee (always grab the gun first, you did good, always keep moving) will help her survive in this mad dog world. Killing Lee ultimately showed her that no matter how much she love someone, you never let him or her turn, that's worse than death. And also, never let yourself trapped. Never.
Anyway, I know I'm six months late on this topic but I had to say it.
Bravo, dudes. You made me cry and that was a platinum achievement for y'all.
I love it...you almost make me want her to be killed just so I don't have to worry about her fate anymore.
Well this is creepy lol.
remind me to not let you in my group when the zombie apocalypse happens.
I have no idea what the future holds, it can't be good.