I absolutely loved the first four and am heavily invested in Clementine and Lee, but this sucked.
- No tension at all. Very bleak throughout the whole episode.
- You would expect that the faith of Clementine's parents would be something bigger, but it's only addressed for a second.
- Clementine dragging a grown man to safety, really?
- I'm not even sure if the long conversation with that guy was meant to be creepy or something, but I didn't feel anything. Also seems like a very far-fetched way to tie the car looting to something and was very anti-climatic to wrap up the whole ''Clementine is gone'' storyline.
- Took the covering yourself in guts from the series.
- Took the arm cutting from the comics.
- Shortest episode of them all, which is weird for a finale.
- All the climbing bits were very lame and boring.
- Kenny disappearing in the lamest fashion, the result of dropping something in a dark hole, zzz.
Key differences between Mass Effect and Walking Dead:
One ending made sense and was plausible, the other wasn't.
Those complaining about Lee dying, is this the first Zombie anything you have ever experienced? Christ people.
How about making zombie apocalypse movies/games/comics where everyone ends up dead withing the first 5 minutes/pages of the movie/game/comics, then? Why bother with a story or fleshing out characters, if they end up dying anyway?
Star Wars had happy endings even before Disney became the overlord and as far as I recall the galaxy there was actually a pretty dark and depressing place and a whole bunch of situations were pretty dire. Imagine Star Wars with Luke Skywalker dying in the end because of the mysterios Sandpeople space flu, BEN3PO getting half of the characters killed and R2D2 as the only survivor, shedding sparks because his master died and the poor robot had to put Lee Skywalker out of his misery before turns into one of the Sandpeople and starts going on a rampage. Of course there could be another scene after the credits where R2Dmentine notices 2 silhouettes turning towards her that could be either Brendarth StJohn and her pet rancor or Princess Christa and Ombacca as a cliffhanger for "The Empire strikes back". Awesome ending, right? Hey, it's grimdark future, so what did you expect, right?
Jesus Christ, who the fudge said there can't be a happy ending for one season in a zombie apocalypse game that could easily have a variety of different endings, only if your choices did really matter? That'd be something fresh and not just like the other billion generic main character dies type of endings. I just wish we had the choice, or that one of our decisions actually mattered in the end. Like chopping off your arm having Lee survive the episode. What could be wrong with that? Rick ain't dead yet, after all and he is right in the middle of a zombie apocalypse!
I absolutely loved the first four and am heavily invested in Clementine and Lee, but this sucked.
- No tension at all. Very bleak throughout the whole episode.
- You would expect that the faith of Clementine's parents would be something bigger, but it's only addressed for a second.
- Clementine dragging a grown man to safety, really?
- I'm not even sure if the long conversation with that guy was meant to be creepy or something, but I didn't feel anything. Also seems like a very far-fetched way to tie the car looting to something and was very anti-climatic to wrap up the whole ''Clementine is gone'' storyline.
- Took the covering yourself in guts from the series.
- Took the arm cutting from the comics.
- Shortest episode of them all, which is weird for a finale.
- All the climbing bits were very lame and boring.
- Kenny disappearing in the lamest fashion, the result of dropping something in a dark hole, zzz.
Anyway, I think I've made my point.
Did we play the same episode? Although I personally am not a fan of the ending it was the only way to do it.
- no tension? Im sorry, I was gonna list out all the "tension" moments but there is ONE IN EVERY SCENE ! From when Ben argues with Kenny to obviously all the walker scenes. Maybe its not tension for you but certainly this episode had more tension than any before.
- Well Clementine is BARELY in this episode and when you save her theres no time to have a one on one heart to heart convo about her parents. She saw them as walkers, so I think she understands.
- Ok I agree with you on that but it certainly is POSSIBLE. plot hole? kind of. but it certainly could of been done.
- Once again same as the last point, howd he follow us ? I dont know but it is completely possible. You have to understand this guys is a nut and after his family died the only thing he had and was driving him was revenge. VERY similiar to the only thing Lee has is Clem. Also once again, that was a extremely creepy conversation. I dont know if were playing the same game.
- Ok?
- Ok?
- Ok? Not quantity but quality
- Your being hypocritical here. The climbing parts (the very few) are realistic. Your the one wanting it to be realistic. You climbed for MAYBE a combined minute/ 2 minutes the whole game.
- HOW IS THAT LAME AT ALL? I had the alternative death with Ben (which sounds a lot better) but either way a great ending to Kenny. Here is a guy that has nothing left to live for and is never helping ANYBODY. Then he finally realizes it and sacrifices his life for the group.
How about making zombie apocalypse movies/games/comics where everyone ends up dead withing the first 5 minutes/pages of the movie/game/comics, then? Why bother with a story or fleshing out characters, if they end up dying anyway?
Star Wars had happy endings even before Disney became the overlord and as far as I recall the galaxy there was actually a pretty dark and depressing place and a whole bunch of situations were pretty dire. Imagine Star Wars with Luke Skywalker dying in the end because of the mysterios Sandpeople space flu, BEN3PO getting half of the characters killed and R2D2 as the only survivor, shedding sparks because his master died and the poor robot had to put Lee Skywalker out of his misery before turns into one of the Sandpeople and starts going on a rampage. Of course there could be another scene after the credits where R2Dmentine notices 2 silhouettes turning towards her that could be either Brendarth StJohn and her pet rancor or Princess Christa and Ombacca as a cliffhanger for "The Empire strikes back". Awesome ending, right? Hey, it's grimdark future, so what did you expect, right?
Jesus Christ, who the fudge said there can't be a happy ending for one season in a zombie apocalypse game that could easily have a variety of different endings, only if your choices did really matter? That'd be something fresh and not just like the other billion generic main character dies type of endings. I just wish we had the choice, or that one of our decisions actually mattered in the end. Like chopping off your arm having Lee survive the episode. What could be wrong with that? Rick ain't dead yet, after all and he is right in the middle of a zombie apocalypse!
Covering in guts happens in the comics too, if I remember right.
That and cutting off the arm aren't bad things to take from the comic because they're somewhat logical.
I think I agree with some of the other points. It didn't bother me that much, personally, but giving most of the character cast that you get to know during the last part of the game 'ambiguous' fates (Molly Kenny, Omid, Christa) I find rather... anti-climatic.
You cannot say it was in the comic too. The comic came out first. If anything they copied from it.
Not everyone has read the comics or seen the show.
Yeah, people in both the show and the game cut their infected limbs off. I think in a real zombie apocalypse, I think at least a couple people would think of that. Same goes for disguising your scent.
Kenny dies a pointless death, like they totally couldn't just put Ben out of his misery and move on. How does dying for a useless tool that's going to die anyway within the next couple of minutes help the group? He didn't bother going full hero mode for the girl in the alley.
None of your choices did matter in the end. Neither from this episode or from the previous ones.
Clem's kidnapper was a huge disappointment.
The scene with Clem's mom was a huge disappointment.
How comes Clem's kidnapper survived on his own for weeks in a zombie apocalypse only to end up as a villain while the main character can't survive season 1?
Lee dying even though you chopped off your arm was a huge disappointment.
Even Lee's final words did not matter.
The cliffhanger in the end was a huge disappointment.
Episode was kinda short and there is only one generic ending to it.
Did we play the same episode? Although I personally am not a fan of the ending it was the only way to do it.
- no tension? Im sorry, I was gonna list out all the "tension" moments but there is ONE IN EVERY SCENE ! From when Ben argues with Kenny to obviously all the walker scenes. Maybe its not tension for you but certainly this episode had more tension than any before.
- Well Clementine is BARELY in this episode and when you save her theres no time to have a one on one heart to heart convo about her parents. She saw them as walkers, so I think she understands.
- Ok I agree with you on that but it certainly is POSSIBLE. plot hole? kind of. but it certainly could of been done.
- Once again same as the last point, howd he follow us ? I dont know but it is completely possible. You have to understand this guys is a nut and after his family died the only thing he had and was driving him was revenge. VERY similiar to the only thing Lee has is Clem. Also once again, that was a extremely creepy conversation. I dont know if were playing the same game.
- Ok?
- Ok?
- Ok? Not quantity but quality
- Your being hypocritical here. The climbing parts (the very few) are realistic. Your the one wanting it to be realistic. You climbed for MAYBE a combined minute/ 2 minutes the whole game.
- HOW IS THAT LAME AT ALL? I had the alternative death with Ben (which sounds a lot better) but either way a great ending to Kenny. Here is a guy that has nothing left to live for and is never helping ANYBODY. Then he finally realizes it and sacrifices his life for the group.
So I think I made my point.
No you just gave your opinion which is all I'm about to give. I have to agree with the OP on many of the points. I like the ending because it's so bleak, no matter what choices you make, Lee dies.
While I wish some of the other choices in the game had different outcomes (Doug/Carley dying the same way no matter what) I was pleased the ending would be the same. It's so relatable and directly parallel with real life. Nothing is guarenteed and even if you try to do the right things and work really hard the world will still shit on you a lot. This will either break your spirit or will temper it and make you a stronger better person and I believe we will see this with Clem.
Or maybe we won't who knows? The rest of the episode seemed rushed and quite frankly lazy. I loved 1-4 absolutely loved them as they were pretty unpredictiable and had moments that left me surprised with a gaping mouth. I didn't get much of that with episode 5. It felt predictable. The guy who kidnapped Clem was lazy story telling. Kenny & Ben = lazy. Clem dragging Lee = implied facepalm. Ect
- no tension? Im sorry, I was gonna list out all the "tension" moments but there is ONE IN EVERY SCENE ! From when Ben argues with Kenny to obviously all the walker scenes. Maybe its not tension for you but certainly this episode had more tension than any before.
I've been satisfied with it in every episode except for this one. For instance, even the simple things in the previous episode like strolling through the house because Clementine is gone, the kidnapper suddenly showing up behind you and getting jumped by the zombie out of nowhere really stuck with me.
- Well Clementine is BARELY in this episode and when you save her theres no time to have a one on one heart to heart convo about her parents. She saw them as walkers, so I think she understands.
Yes, but she's a major character and always talked about it in the previous episodes.
- Once again same as the last point, howd he follow us ? I dont know but it is completely possible. You have to understand this guys is a nut and after his family died the only thing he had and was driving him was revenge. VERY similiar to the only thing Lee has is Clem. Also once again, that was a extremely creepy conversation. I dont know if were playing the same game.
I don't really mind the following part, he was just obsessed, the logistics might be sketchy, but I can live with that. I had a feeling they were intending it to be creepy, but I wasn't feeling it.
- HOW IS THAT LAME AT ALL? I had the alternative death with Ben (which sounds a lot better) but either way a great ending to Kenny. Here is a guy that has nothing left to live for and is never helping ANYBODY. Then he finally realizes it and sacrifices his life for the group.
The intention was great, but the way in which it happened left me unsatisfied.
Lee drops the walkie talkie in a hole in the roof because of Kenny, Christa jumps in to get it, gets surrounded by zombies, Kenny jumps in to lift her up and disappears.
I agree.
The episode is short because Telltale really wanted to give us the message.
"This is the end of the world, there is no time left for backstories. You're not a murderer or a widow, a homless dude.. You're alive and that's all that matters."
But it was because that was all that mattered, that I became pretty senseless to it ._. ...
Still loved the game tho!
I'm not bashing the game, just expressing my opinion!
And I'm respecting everybody who has a different one!
Yes some people may think that, but for many that is no where near the reason why they disliked it. For a lot its the lack of choice....which I'm tired of hearing people tell me the game has choice
In Mass Effect Shepard's death was not thematically suited for every playthrough and the ending had a lot of issues beyond that.
In The Walking Dead I did feel Lee's death was thematically appropriate. The scene was well done, but I was expecting Clem, Kenny, Ben, Omid and Christa's stories to end differently based on all your choices and discussions with them. Having their fates end up being exactly the same regardless just made their deaths weaker.
Why have choices at all if they ended up having no real impact on the ultimate narrative. Not just the ending, but all of Episode 5. I was fine up to Episode 4 - but having it end up that no matter what I do in episode 5 it all plays out the same just makes the whole exercise kind of pointless and discourages going back to play again to see how the story changes. Because ultimately it doesn't change and as such it doesn't really tailor itself at all.
How about making zombie apocalypse movies/games/comics where everyone ends up dead withing the first 5 minutes/pages of the movie/game/comics, then? Why bother with a story or fleshing out characters, if they end up dying anyway?
Star Wars had happy endings even before Disney became the overlord and as far as I recall the galaxy there was actually a pretty dark and depressing place and a whole bunch of situations were pretty dire. Imagine Star Wars with Luke Skywalker dying in the end because of the mysterios Sandpeople space flu, BEN3PO getting half of the characters killed and R2D2 as the only survivor, shedding sparks because his master died and the poor robot had to put Lee Skywalker out of his misery before turns into one of the Sandpeople and starts going on a rampage. Of course there could be another scene after the credits where R2Dmentine notices 2 silhouettes turning towards her that could be either Brendarth StJohn and her pet rancor or Princess Christa and Ombacca as a cliffhanger for "The Empire strikes back". Awesome ending, right? Hey, it's grimdark future, so what did you expect, right?
Jesus Christ, who the fudge said there can't be a happy ending for one season in a zombie apocalypse game that could easily have a variety of different endings, only if your choices did really matter? That'd be something fresh and not just like the other billion generic main character dies type of endings. I just wish we had the choice, or that one of our decisions actually mattered in the end. Like chopping off your arm having Lee survive the episode. What could be wrong with that? Rick ain't dead yet, after all and he is right in the middle of a zombie apocalypse!
Welcome to The Walking Dead! No such thing as a happy ending.
Absolutely masterful series. That said, I do have a harsh review. I loved the episode, but I seriously need to point out some problems.
I have six main complaints with episode 5
1) WAY too short. 2) It felt rushed/Campman's motivations. 3) Lee's arm. 4) Lee's death/zombification. 5) The epilogue was horrible. 6) The concept of "choice".
1) Is it just me? Or is this the shortest episode? I mean, I railroaded through this in what seemed to be maybe an hour and a half? Most episodes reach over 2 hours. Episode 3 had to be the longest. Hoping for a longer experience.
2) Also the way the story wraps up was rushed. I mean, Campman's motivation made little sense to me. Sure, he says you stealing the stuff led to his family's demise, but was that really enough for him to go through with his Rube Goldberg idea? And how was he able to track them down in the city, Clem didn't have the radio with her. Why the fuck wasn't the Marsh Hotel filled with zombies? And what the fuck was Campman going to do if Lee came with everyone? How could he have possibly beaten Lee, Kenny, Christa, Omid, and Ben? Especially if they were armed? Waaaaaay too many plot holes. Very, very sloppy writing. I would've gladly waited another month or two for a better written story.
3) I didn't cut my arm off, because in the back of my mind I knew it was absolutely pointless. And low and behold, it was. My friend messages me saying he got Lee's arm amputated and he STILL dies. Thanks for being complete dicks with that one, TellTale, teasing a possible determinant death. Also, Kenny and the others seemed to know cutting it off might help. My question is, why the fuck didn't they suggest that when I first showed them the bite?
4) I was expecting Lee to die. But the way people were hyping the ending up made me think Clem was going to die too. Not that I wanted that. It's the last thing I wanted. It's just people were saying this was the most heartwrenching thing they've ever seen. So I'm like "Clem must be the one that dies". I mean, everyone loves Clem and that's the only death I expect people to have such a strong reaction too. I love Lee, but still. I guess the fact that I expected Lee to die took a bit of the emotional sting away. I got so attached to him and Clem. I'm glad to see Clem alive, but knowing they'll never be together again makes me much more angry than it does sad.
5) The epilogue is complete trash. I hate that TellTale keeps trying to be ambiguous. First Lilly. Then Molly. Then Vernon and his piece of shit group. Then Kenny's "death". And then Clementine. Is it too much to give the player some closure? I mean, it is a season, but from what TellTale was saying after the game's success, I don't think they had a season 2 planned. So was this cliffhanger ending supposed to happen or was it added in at the last minute to hook people for season 2?
6) Choice never mattered with this game. You can feed me that "the theme is helplessness/hopelessness" stuff, but that's some bullshit. It was cost effective and time saving. Period. I was really expecting them to come through and give us multiple endings for this one episode. I could tolerate things like Carley dying and Ben's lackluster death if you save him, as long as they gave me the option to end the game in a couple different ways, but no. It's like being able to choose different types of fast food. You may get a different taste, but it all ends in a heart attack regardless.
I know I'm coming down hard on a downloadable game that probably didn't have much funding and resources behind it, but TellTale should've never suggested that your choices actually matter and therefore have a profound effect on the story when they really didn't mean anything. Doug, Larry, Carley, Ben, Duck, Katjaa, Chuck, and Lee are doomed no matter WHAT you do. Molly, Lilly, Christa, Omid, Kenny, and Clementine's fates are unknown thanks to a literary cop-out (ambiguous endings).
They should've just said it's a story and you're along for the ride, but instead it gives the phony illusion of choice. We can argue all day whether it's intentional or not.
I really hope season 2 is much, much more ambitious and far-reaching. Hope Clem, Lilly, and Christa and Omid come back. Kenny, if he's alive too.
That said, I still adore the game. It's going down in my top 20 favorite video games of all time.
2nd play. I just laugh arm or no arm, Lee still uses one arm throughout the whole episode. This episode was a let down for me.
looool yep. Was a poor episode, I didn't pay for any episodes after the first, played them at my friends. I had a feeling the choices would be paper-thin.
Absolutely masterful series. That said, I do have a harsh review. I loved the episode, but I seriously need to point out some problems.
I have six main complaints with episode 5
1) WAY too short. 2) It felt rushed/Campman's motivations. 3) Lee's arm. 4) Lee's death/zombification. 5) The epilogue was horrible. 6) The concept of "choice".
1) Is it just me? Or is this the shortest episode? I mean, I railroaded through this in what seemed to be maybe an hour and a half? Most episodes reach over 2 hours. Episode 3 had to be the longest. Hoping for a longer experience.
2) Also the way the story wraps up was rushed. I mean, Campman's motivation made little sense to me. Sure, he says you stealing the stuff led to his family's demise, but was that really enough for him to go through with his Rube Goldberg idea? And how was he able to track them down in the city, Clem didn't have the radio with her. Why the fuck wasn't the Marsh Hotel filled with zombies? And what the fuck was Campman going to do if Lee came with everyone? How could he have possibly beaten Lee, Kenny, Christa, Omid, and Ben? Especially if they were armed? Waaaaaay too many plot holes. Very, very sloppy writing. I would've gladly waited another month or two for a better written story.
3) I didn't cut my arm off, because in the back of my mind I knew it was absolutely pointless. And low and behold, it was. My friend messages me saying he got Lee's arm amputated and he STILL dies. Thanks for being complete dicks with that one, TellTale, teasing a possible determinant death. Also, Kenny and the others seemed to know cutting it off might help. My question is, why the fuck didn't they suggest that when I first showed them the bite?
4) I was expecting Lee to die. But the way people were hyping the ending up made me think Clem was going to die too. Not that I wanted that. It's the last thing I wanted. It's just people were saying this was the most heartwrenching thing they've ever seen. So I'm like "Clem must be the one that dies". I mean, everyone loves Clem and that's the only death I expect people to have such a strong reaction too. I love Lee, but still. I guess the fact that I expected Lee to die took a bit of the emotional sting away. I got so attached to him and Clem. I'm glad to see Clem alive, but knowing they'll never be together again makes me much more angry than it does sad.
5) The epilogue is complete trash. I hate that TellTale keeps trying to be ambiguous. First Lilly. Then Molly. Then Vernon and his piece of shit group. Then Kenny's "death". And then Clementine. Is it too much to give the player some closure? I mean, it is a season, but from what TellTale was saying after the game's success, I don't think they had a season 2 planned. So was this cliffhanger ending supposed to happen or was it added in at the last minute to hook people for season 2?
6) Choice never mattered with this game. You can feed me that "the theme is helplessness/hopelessness" stuff, but that's some bullshit. It was cost effective and time saving. Period. I was really expecting them to come through and give us multiple endings for this one episode. I could tolerate things like Carley dying and Ben's lackluster death if you save him, as long as they gave me the option to end the game in a couple different ways, but no. It's like being able to choose different types of fast food. You may get a different taste, but it all ends in a heart attack regardless.
I know I'm coming down hard on a downloadable game that probably didn't have much funding and resources behind it, but TellTale should've never suggested that your choices actually matter and therefore have a profound effect on the story when they really didn't mean anything. Doug, Larry, Carley, Ben, Duck, Katjaa, Chuck, and Lee are doomed no matter WHAT you do. Molly, Lilly, Christa, Omid, Kenny, and Clementine's fates are unknown thanks to a literary cop-out (ambiguous endings).
They should've just said it's a story and you're along for the ride, but instead it gives the phony illusion of choice. We can argue all day whether it's intentional or not.
I really hope season 2 is much, much more ambitious and far-reaching. Hope Clem, Lilly, and Christa and Omid come back. Kenny, if he's alive too.
That said, I still adore the game. It's going down in my top 20 favorite video games of all time.
UGH... It makes me soooooooooo frustrated seing people say choices don't matter. They do. Like I always say, you can have a set destination and a few points to pass, but how you get there is your choice. In my game, Kenny died protecting Ben because he felt he owed ben that. That didn't happen in everyones. they could have hated Kenny and not felt for him.
UGH... It makes me soooooooooo frustrated seing people say choices don't matter. They do. Like I always say, you can have a set destination and a few points to pass, but how you get there is your choice. In my game, Kenny died protecting Ben because he felt he owed ben that. That didn't happen in everyones. they could have hated Kenny and not felt for him.
But the difference is cosmetic. Because the alternative is Kenny dies saving Christa. Regardless of your decisions, Kenny dies. At the exact same point in the episode.
Also it all comes to the same outcome - Clem looking for Christa and Omid.
The changes really aren't as big as you think they are. You still lose the same people at the same points. Any "choices" are ultimately surface only.
Hence the disappointment.
Edit: To put it another way, the game ends up only paying lip service to your choices. The Stranger still blames Lee, nobody who dies can actually be saved by a different choice or string of choices. It's all smoke and mirrors. The story is exactly the same by the time it reaches it's conclusion. A story is not just the journey, but where that journey takes the characters.
I absolutely loved the first four and am heavily invested in Clementine and Lee, but this sucked.
- No tension at all. Very bleak throughout the whole episode.
- You would expect that the faith of Clementine's parents would be something bigger, but it's only addressed for a second.
- Clementine dragging a grown man to safety, really?
- I'm not even sure if the long conversation with that guy was meant to be creepy or something, but I didn't feel anything. Also seems like a very far-fetched way to tie the car looting to something and was very anti-climatic to wrap up the whole ''Clementine is gone'' storyline.
- Took the covering yourself in guts from the series.
- Took the arm cutting from the comics.
- Shortest episode of them all, which is weird for a finale.
- All the climbing bits were very lame and boring.
- Kenny disappearing in the lamest fashion, the result of dropping something in a dark hole, zzz.
Anyway, I think I've made my point.
I agree as a finale to what has been a great season, this was an absolute failure, and my least favorite episode. In comparing with the others I found it to be, imo, lackluster, rushed, nonsensical, and boring. Instead of focusing most of their energy in setting the stage for season 2, they should have worked at making this episode the crowning glory to what has been a very entertaining first season. I was hoping for the same emotional ties I felt for the previous episodes and all I felt at the end of 5 was....ehhh!
UGH... It makes me soooooooooo frustrated seing people say choices don't matter. They do. Like I always say, you can have a set destination and a few points to pass, but how you get there is your choice. In my game, Kenny died protecting Ben because he felt he owed ben that. That didn't happen in everyones. they could have hated Kenny and not felt for him.
You don't get it.
The game ends with Clementine looking for Christa and Omid.
No matter what you do. It ends that way. Like another poster said, characters are doomed no matter what. Kenny dies at the same point no matter what you do, no matter who he's saving. Lee's life isn't extended in the slightest whether you cut his arm off or not. He dies at the same point in the game. So your choices offer nothing more than different dialogue options and different cinematic sequences, but it's still the exact same outcome.
It's like you taking the elevator and me taking the stairs. We still end up on the same floor.
But the difference is cosmetic. Because the alternative is Kenny dies saving Christa. Regardless of your decisions, Kenny dies. At the exact same point in the episode.
No, the difference is nuance. Telltale has said from the start that your choices would not drastically effect the outcome of the story, they effect the texture of the story, they effect how people behave and how they respond to you and their motivations for the things they do.
It's like you taking the elevator and me taking the stairs. We still end up on the same floor.
Lazy writing. I can't stand it.
That's not lazy writing, that's two completely different ways to get to the same point. It's not a choose-your-own-adventure book. The ending was set in stone from the beginning.
But the difference is cosmetic. Because the alternative is Kenny dies saving Christa. Regardless of your decisions, Kenny dies. At the exact same point in the episode.
Also it all comes to the same outcome - Clem looking for Christa and Omid.
The changes really aren't as big as you think they are. You still lose the same people at the same points. Any "choices" are ultimately surface only.
Hence the disappointment.
Edit: To put it another way, the game ends up only paying lip service to your choices. The Stranger still blames Lee, nobody who dies can actually be saved by a different choice or string of choices. It's all smoke and mirrors. The story is exactly the same by the time it reaches it's conclusion. A story is not just the journey, but where that journey takes the characters.
I see what you are saying,but what you do changes how it happens. Kenny pushed me out when I wanted to help him with Ben. Well, its all how you look at it. Opinions are great.
The game ends with Clementine looking for Christa and Omid.
No matter what you do. It ends that way. Like another poster said, characters are doomed no matter what. Kenny dies at the same point no matter what you do, no matter who he's saving. Lee's life isn't extended in the slightest whether you cut his arm off or not. He dies at the same point in the game. So your choices offer nothing more than different dialogue options and different cinematic sequences, but it's still the exact same outcome.
It's like you taking the elevator and me taking the stairs. We still end up on the same floor.
Lazy writing. I can't stand it.
Yeah, but I could meet a cool person on the elevator or you could fall down the stairs. What you want is choices that effect the end, which is VERY unrealistic.
Aww come on, fudge you telltale! You could at least have let Lee survive if we chose to chop off the arm. Another choice that didn't matter at all in this game full of pointless choices.
The railroading dead all the way, huh?
You are &/%$/&$, seriously!
If you chop off the arm though you stop him from passing out as much,and I think you also slow the infection down a tiny bit.
That's not lazy writing, that's two completely different ways to get to the same point. It's not a choose-your-own-adventure book. The ending was set in stone from the beginning.
Must I point out the ludicrous amount of plotholes and sloppy writing in episode 5? I'll could give the single ending a pass if the wrap up wasn't so infuriating.
And it's not just the ending. It's how you get there too. Nothing we do matters. Literally. It all ends the same. Every character that dies will die no matter what.
I was ok with lee dying, but I was basically left hanging with the girl wandering in the middle of nowhere when I told her to go to the train, and the fact that characters die no matter what you do. If one dies, another will die in their place later. No getting around that.
I still love the game, but the ending was very disappointing for me.
Yeah, but I could meet a cool person on the elevator or you could fall down the stairs. What you want is choices that effect the end, which is VERY unrealistic.
Telltale,
Firstly i would like to say great game and a fantastic concept. However the ending i would say is not so great. While it is very well made and certainly tugs at your heart strings, I didn't play the game and wait for the ending only to find out i die anyway... Now i know people may argue that you didn't see lee actually turn so maybe he will be ok, but the fact you left it this way is really a let down to the series. I was really looking forward to the last episode but in all honesty it just brought me down and i kinda wish i stopped playing at episode 4. There should be an alternative ending where you can at least live... Just my opinion.
No, the difference is nuance. Telltale has said from the start that your choices would not drastically effect the outcome of the story, they effect the texture of the story, they effect how people behave and how they respond to you and their motivations for the things they do.
It's really not nuance. You still argue with Kenny - even if he's your bro. You still get blamed for the car theft. You still get called a murderer. The fight at the roadside where Doug/Carly gets shot plays out exactly the same regardless of what you said or who you talked to.
The nods to your choices really don't impact the other character's motivations. Kenny acts morose no matter what you say. Christa and Omid end up wanting to look after Clem. Ben still blames himself and gives up in episode 4.
The nuances end up meaning nothing and gives the whole story a fatalistic air that people are useless no matter what. But the comics actually have more of a message than that.
So trying to claim nuance doesn't really hold when the characters still do the same things in the end.
It's really not nuance. You still argue with Kenny - even if he's your bro. You still get blamed for the car theft. You still get called a murderer. The fight at the roadside where Doug/Carly gets shot plays out exactly the same regardless of what you said or who you talked to.
The nods to your choices really don't impact the other character's motivations. Kenny acts morose no matter what you say. Christa and Omid end up wanting to look after Clem. Ben still blames himself and gives up in episode 4.
The nuances end up meaning nothing and gives the whole story a fatalistic air that people are useless no matter what. But the comics actually have more of a message than that.
So trying to claim nuance doesn't really hold when the characters still do the same things in the end.
So much to cover about this. I enjoyed the episode and the season only a few minor complaints. I had the arm taken off, thought it was the best chance at survival. I figured it was not the bite that was going to kill me, but blood loss and exhaustion that did Lee in at the end. I think the epilogue was not needed because Lee was dead or gone whatever. I thought the end of game was perfect. Lee stormed in and did his best and got her out, that was the goal throughout.
Now some complain about not surviving. How were you supposed to survive? You were bitten in the 4th episode you knew the clock was winding from then on out. Maybe if you cut your arm off and found somewhere safe to heal up over a few days with medicine you could have survived.
Why would you think you failed Clem because she is on her own afterwards? She survived a long time with Lee, and she has a shot. If you think giving up and letting her die is a better choice than a chance, then you miss the point of being alive. It was as happy as an ending as you could really expect.
Did you expect Lee to chop enough zombies in the Gauntlet to get a kill streak and get to call in tactical support or something?
Don't they have to make the ending & epilogue basically the same so when season 2 is released everyone will start at the same point?
Not necessarily. They can always start Season 2 at the same point with an explanation as to why Ben/Kenny/whoever survived is no longer with Clem.
Personally I feel the better approach would have been to end the story properly here and make Season 2 be a new story with new protagonists then have characters from season 1 make guest appearances.
While I love Clem, I kind of feel her story has been told. It will be interesting to see where they go next with it, but I would want more choice and consequence in season 2 before I'd be willing to put any money down.
Stop telling people what to like or not like. If they say the writing sucked or the choices are pointless. Then it sucked. This is a VENT thread after all. Not kiss TTG's butt. Geez!
Stop telling people what to like or not like. If they say the writing sucked or the choices are pointless. Then it sucked. This is a VENT thread after all. Not kiss TTG's butt. Geez!
Open forum is it not? Allowed to disagree with each other, its okay.
Stop telling people what to like or not like. If they say the writing sucked or the choices are pointless. Then it sucked. This is a VENT thread after all. Not kiss TTG's butt. Geez!
I swear. I can see people disagreeing on the choices thing, but to deny this episode was poorly written is ludicrous. The dialogue between Clem and Lee is fantastic, but the entire "campman" thing is complete and utter bullshit.
Open forum is it not? Allowed to disagree with each other, its okay.
There's a difference between disagreeing and just blindly dickriding TellTale, like so many posters here are doing. Once the Fridge Logic hits them, they'll get what we're venting about.
Comments
- No tension at all. Very bleak throughout the whole episode.
- You would expect that the faith of Clementine's parents would be something bigger, but it's only addressed for a second.
- Clementine dragging a grown man to safety, really?
- I'm not even sure if the long conversation with that guy was meant to be creepy or something, but I didn't feel anything. Also seems like a very far-fetched way to tie the car looting to something and was very anti-climatic to wrap up the whole ''Clementine is gone'' storyline.
- Took the covering yourself in guts from the series.
- Took the arm cutting from the comics.
- Shortest episode of them all, which is weird for a finale.
- All the climbing bits were very lame and boring.
- Kenny disappearing in the lamest fashion, the result of dropping something in a dark hole, zzz.
Anyway, I think I've made my point.
How about making zombie apocalypse movies/games/comics where everyone ends up dead withing the first 5 minutes/pages of the movie/game/comics, then? Why bother with a story or fleshing out characters, if they end up dying anyway?
Star Wars had happy endings even before Disney became the overlord and as far as I recall the galaxy there was actually a pretty dark and depressing place and a whole bunch of situations were pretty dire. Imagine Star Wars with Luke Skywalker dying in the end because of the mysterios Sandpeople space flu, BEN3PO getting half of the characters killed and R2D2 as the only survivor, shedding sparks because his master died and the poor robot had to put Lee Skywalker out of his misery before turns into one of the Sandpeople and starts going on a rampage. Of course there could be another scene after the credits where R2Dmentine notices 2 silhouettes turning towards her that could be either Brendarth StJohn and her pet rancor or Princess Christa and Ombacca as a cliffhanger for "The Empire strikes back". Awesome ending, right? Hey, it's grimdark future, so what did you expect, right?
Jesus Christ, who the fudge said there can't be a happy ending for one season in a zombie apocalypse game that could easily have a variety of different endings, only if your choices did really matter? That'd be something fresh and not just like the other billion generic main character dies type of endings. I just wish we had the choice, or that one of our decisions actually mattered in the end. Like chopping off your arm having Lee survive the episode. What could be wrong with that? Rick ain't dead yet, after all and he is right in the middle of a zombie apocalypse!
Did we play the same episode? Although I personally am not a fan of the ending it was the only way to do it.
- no tension? Im sorry, I was gonna list out all the "tension" moments but there is ONE IN EVERY SCENE ! From when Ben argues with Kenny to obviously all the walker scenes. Maybe its not tension for you but certainly this episode had more tension than any before.
- Well Clementine is BARELY in this episode and when you save her theres no time to have a one on one heart to heart convo about her parents. She saw them as walkers, so I think she understands.
- Ok I agree with you on that but it certainly is POSSIBLE. plot hole? kind of. but it certainly could of been done.
- Once again same as the last point, howd he follow us ? I dont know but it is completely possible. You have to understand this guys is a nut and after his family died the only thing he had and was driving him was revenge. VERY similiar to the only thing Lee has is Clem. Also once again, that was a extremely creepy conversation. I dont know if were playing the same game.
- Ok?
- Ok?
- Ok? Not quantity but quality
- Your being hypocritical here. The climbing parts (the very few) are realistic. Your the one wanting it to be realistic. You climbed for MAYBE a combined minute/ 2 minutes the whole game.
- HOW IS THAT LAME AT ALL? I had the alternative death with Ben (which sounds a lot better) but either way a great ending to Kenny. Here is a guy that has nothing left to live for and is never helping ANYBODY. Then he finally realizes it and sacrifices his life for the group.
So I think I made my point.
Happiness is for pussies.
You cannot say it was in the comic too. The comic came out first. If anything they copied from it.
Yeah, people in both the show and the game cut their infected limbs off. I think in a real zombie apocalypse, I think at least a couple people would think of that. Same goes for disguising your scent.
What happens to Kenny if Ben isn't around?
None of your choices did matter in the end. Neither from this episode or from the previous ones.
Clem's kidnapper was a huge disappointment.
The scene with Clem's mom was a huge disappointment.
How comes Clem's kidnapper survived on his own for weeks in a zombie apocalypse only to end up as a villain while the main character can't survive season 1?
Lee dying even though you chopped off your arm was a huge disappointment.
Even Lee's final words did not matter.
The cliffhanger in the end was a huge disappointment.
Episode was kinda short and there is only one generic ending to it.
No you just gave your opinion which is all I'm about to give. I have to agree with the OP on many of the points. I like the ending because it's so bleak, no matter what choices you make, Lee dies.
While I wish some of the other choices in the game had different outcomes (Doug/Carley dying the same way no matter what) I was pleased the ending would be the same. It's so relatable and directly parallel with real life. Nothing is guarenteed and even if you try to do the right things and work really hard the world will still shit on you a lot. This will either break your spirit or will temper it and make you a stronger better person and I believe we will see this with Clem.
Or maybe we won't who knows? The rest of the episode seemed rushed and quite frankly lazy. I loved 1-4 absolutely loved them as they were pretty unpredictiable and had moments that left me surprised with a gaping mouth. I didn't get much of that with episode 5. It felt predictable. The guy who kidnapped Clem was lazy story telling. Kenny & Ben = lazy. Clem dragging Lee = implied facepalm. Ect
Oh, you're a real manly man, aren't you?
The episode is short because Telltale really wanted to give us the message.
"This is the end of the world, there is no time left for backstories. You're not a murderer or a widow, a homless dude.. You're alive and that's all that matters."
But it was because that was all that mattered, that I became pretty senseless to it ._. ...
Still loved the game tho!
I'm not bashing the game, just expressing my opinion!
And I'm respecting everybody who has a different one!
In Mass Effect Shepard's death was not thematically suited for every playthrough and the ending had a lot of issues beyond that.
In The Walking Dead I did feel Lee's death was thematically appropriate. The scene was well done, but I was expecting Clem, Kenny, Ben, Omid and Christa's stories to end differently based on all your choices and discussions with them. Having their fates end up being exactly the same regardless just made their deaths weaker.
Why have choices at all if they ended up having no real impact on the ultimate narrative. Not just the ending, but all of Episode 5. I was fine up to Episode 4 - but having it end up that no matter what I do in episode 5 it all plays out the same just makes the whole exercise kind of pointless and discourages going back to play again to see how the story changes. Because ultimately it doesn't change and as such it doesn't really tailor itself at all.
Welcome to The Walking Dead! No such thing as a happy ending.
I have six main complaints with episode 5
1) WAY too short.
2) It felt rushed/Campman's motivations.
3) Lee's arm.
4) Lee's death/zombification.
5) The epilogue was horrible.
6) The concept of "choice".
1) Is it just me? Or is this the shortest episode? I mean, I railroaded through this in what seemed to be maybe an hour and a half? Most episodes reach over 2 hours. Episode 3 had to be the longest. Hoping for a longer experience.
2) Also the way the story wraps up was rushed. I mean, Campman's motivation made little sense to me. Sure, he says you stealing the stuff led to his family's demise, but was that really enough for him to go through with his Rube Goldberg idea? And how was he able to track them down in the city, Clem didn't have the radio with her. Why the fuck wasn't the Marsh Hotel filled with zombies? And what the fuck was Campman going to do if Lee came with everyone? How could he have possibly beaten Lee, Kenny, Christa, Omid, and Ben? Especially if they were armed? Waaaaaay too many plot holes. Very, very sloppy writing. I would've gladly waited another month or two for a better written story.
3) I didn't cut my arm off, because in the back of my mind I knew it was absolutely pointless. And low and behold, it was. My friend messages me saying he got Lee's arm amputated and he STILL dies. Thanks for being complete dicks with that one, TellTale, teasing a possible determinant death. Also, Kenny and the others seemed to know cutting it off might help. My question is, why the fuck didn't they suggest that when I first showed them the bite?
4) I was expecting Lee to die. But the way people were hyping the ending up made me think Clem was going to die too. Not that I wanted that. It's the last thing I wanted. It's just people were saying this was the most heartwrenching thing they've ever seen. So I'm like "Clem must be the one that dies". I mean, everyone loves Clem and that's the only death I expect people to have such a strong reaction too. I love Lee, but still. I guess the fact that I expected Lee to die took a bit of the emotional sting away. I got so attached to him and Clem. I'm glad to see Clem alive, but knowing they'll never be together again makes me much more angry than it does sad.
5) The epilogue is complete trash. I hate that TellTale keeps trying to be ambiguous. First Lilly. Then Molly. Then Vernon and his piece of shit group. Then Kenny's "death". And then Clementine. Is it too much to give the player some closure? I mean, it is a season, but from what TellTale was saying after the game's success, I don't think they had a season 2 planned. So was this cliffhanger ending supposed to happen or was it added in at the last minute to hook people for season 2?
6) Choice never mattered with this game. You can feed me that "the theme is helplessness/hopelessness" stuff, but that's some bullshit. It was cost effective and time saving. Period. I was really expecting them to come through and give us multiple endings for this one episode. I could tolerate things like Carley dying and Ben's lackluster death if you save him, as long as they gave me the option to end the game in a couple different ways, but no. It's like being able to choose different types of fast food. You may get a different taste, but it all ends in a heart attack regardless.
I know I'm coming down hard on a downloadable game that probably didn't have much funding and resources behind it, but TellTale should've never suggested that your choices actually matter and therefore have a profound effect on the story when they really didn't mean anything. Doug, Larry, Carley, Ben, Duck, Katjaa, Chuck, and Lee are doomed no matter WHAT you do. Molly, Lilly, Christa, Omid, Kenny, and Clementine's fates are unknown thanks to a literary cop-out (ambiguous endings).
They should've just said it's a story and you're along for the ride, but instead it gives the phony illusion of choice. We can argue all day whether it's intentional or not.
I really hope season 2 is much, much more ambitious and far-reaching. Hope Clem, Lilly, and Christa and Omid come back. Kenny, if he's alive too.
That said, I still adore the game. It's going down in my top 20 favorite video games of all time.
looool yep. Was a poor episode, I didn't pay for any episodes after the first, played them at my friends. I had a feeling the choices would be paper-thin.
Very well said. "Choices are full of crap"
But the difference is cosmetic. Because the alternative is Kenny dies saving Christa. Regardless of your decisions, Kenny dies. At the exact same point in the episode.
Also it all comes to the same outcome - Clem looking for Christa and Omid.
The changes really aren't as big as you think they are. You still lose the same people at the same points. Any "choices" are ultimately surface only.
Hence the disappointment.
Edit: To put it another way, the game ends up only paying lip service to your choices. The Stranger still blames Lee, nobody who dies can actually be saved by a different choice or string of choices. It's all smoke and mirrors. The story is exactly the same by the time it reaches it's conclusion. A story is not just the journey, but where that journey takes the characters.
I agree as a finale to what has been a great season, this was an absolute failure, and my least favorite episode. In comparing with the others I found it to be, imo, lackluster, rushed, nonsensical, and boring. Instead of focusing most of their energy in setting the stage for season 2, they should have worked at making this episode the crowning glory to what has been a very entertaining first season. I was hoping for the same emotional ties I felt for the previous episodes and all I felt at the end of 5 was....ehhh!
You don't get it.
The game ends with Clementine looking for Christa and Omid.
No matter what you do. It ends that way. Like another poster said, characters are doomed no matter what. Kenny dies at the same point no matter what you do, no matter who he's saving. Lee's life isn't extended in the slightest whether you cut his arm off or not. He dies at the same point in the game. So your choices offer nothing more than different dialogue options and different cinematic sequences, but it's still the exact same outcome.
It's like you taking the elevator and me taking the stairs. We still end up on the same floor.
Lazy writing. I can't stand it.
No, the difference is nuance. Telltale has said from the start that your choices would not drastically effect the outcome of the story, they effect the texture of the story, they effect how people behave and how they respond to you and their motivations for the things they do.
That's not lazy writing, that's two completely different ways to get to the same point. It's not a choose-your-own-adventure book. The ending was set in stone from the beginning.
I see what you are saying,but what you do changes how it happens. Kenny pushed me out when I wanted to help him with Ben. Well, its all how you look at it. Opinions are great.
Yeah, but I could meet a cool person on the elevator or you could fall down the stairs. What you want is choices that effect the end, which is VERY unrealistic.
If you chop off the arm though you stop him from passing out as much,and I think you also slow the infection down a tiny bit.
Must I point out the ludicrous amount of plotholes and sloppy writing in episode 5? I'll could give the single ending a pass if the wrap up wasn't so infuriating.
And it's not just the ending. It's how you get there too. Nothing we do matters. Literally. It all ends the same. Every character that dies will die no matter what.
-Epilogue sucked.
-Choices didn't matter.
I was ok with lee dying, but I was basically left hanging with the girl wandering in the middle of nowhere when I told her to go to the train, and the fact that characters die no matter what you do. If one dies, another will die in their place later. No getting around that.
I still love the game, but the ending was very disappointing for me.
That's hardly unrealistic.
You are wrong.
It's really not nuance. You still argue with Kenny - even if he's your bro. You still get blamed for the car theft. You still get called a murderer. The fight at the roadside where Doug/Carly gets shot plays out exactly the same regardless of what you said or who you talked to.
The nods to your choices really don't impact the other character's motivations. Kenny acts morose no matter what you say. Christa and Omid end up wanting to look after Clem. Ben still blames himself and gives up in episode 4.
The nuances end up meaning nothing and gives the whole story a fatalistic air that people are useless no matter what. But the comics actually have more of a message than that.
So trying to claim nuance doesn't really hold when the characters still do the same things in the end.
^^^
This.
Now some complain about not surviving. How were you supposed to survive? You were bitten in the 4th episode you knew the clock was winding from then on out. Maybe if you cut your arm off and found somewhere safe to heal up over a few days with medicine you could have survived.
Why would you think you failed Clem because she is on her own afterwards? She survived a long time with Lee, and she has a shot. If you think giving up and letting her die is a better choice than a chance, then you miss the point of being alive. It was as happy as an ending as you could really expect.
Did you expect Lee to chop enough zombies in the Gauntlet to get a kill streak and get to call in tactical support or something?
Not necessarily. They can always start Season 2 at the same point with an explanation as to why Ben/Kenny/whoever survived is no longer with Clem.
Personally I feel the better approach would have been to end the story properly here and make Season 2 be a new story with new protagonists then have characters from season 1 make guest appearances.
While I love Clem, I kind of feel her story has been told. It will be interesting to see where they go next with it, but I would want more choice and consequence in season 2 before I'd be willing to put any money down.
No. They threw continuity out the window when they killed Lee. It'll more than likely be a new protagonist, possibly caring for Clem.
Open forum is it not? Allowed to disagree with each other, its okay.
I swear. I can see people disagreeing on the choices thing, but to deny this episode was poorly written is ludicrous. The dialogue between Clem and Lee is fantastic, but the entire "campman" thing is complete and utter bullshit.
There's a difference between disagreeing and just blindly dickriding TellTale, like so many posters here are doing. Once the Fridge Logic hits them, they'll get what we're venting about.