You still have to give the player the feeling of some kind of accomplishment. Now Lee has completely failed, he might as well shot himself in the head with the shotgun from the beginning, what difference would it make? Clem is all alone, hungry, thirsty and will probably die from exhaustion in the next couple of hours. We don't even know who the two silhouettes at the end were. There really is no excuse for such a stupid cliffhanger ending.
Oh look, we will make a second season, so you don't need an ending for the first one, because that is, how good writing works.
Actually Lee hasn't failed, not if Clem survives and goes on to do something important.
From the looks of the end, it seems you might be Clem in the second game (if there is one).
It is a standard feature of story structure that has been around for 1000s of years that the tutor *must* die or leave so that the person they were caring for can prove they are a hero themselves. If they never get to do that the tutor was a pointless character in the first place, because you never get to see what the person they were caring for actually learned.
So, if Clem is the main character that you control in the second game, Lee pretty much had to die or be removed from the story in some other way so that everything he did could be validated.
Actually Lee hasn't failed, not if Clem survives and goes on to do something important.
From the looks of the end, it seems you might be Clem in the second game (if there is one).
It is a standard feature of story structure that has been around for 1000s of years that the tutor *must* die or leave so that the person they were caring for can prove they are a hero themselves. If they never get to do that the tutor was a pointless character in the first place, because you never get to see what the person they were caring for actually learned.
So, if Clem is the main character that you control in the second game, Lee pretty much had to die or be removed from the story in some other way so that everything he did could be validated.
The likelyhood of us playing as Clem is extremely slim. Yes, she might become a protagonist like Carl did in the comics, but again, it's unlikely. What made the game so appealing was the fact the player was protecting this little girl. It'd be a whole 'nother ballgame if we were forced to be her.
I swear. I can see people disagreeing on the choices thing, but to deny this episode was poorly written is ludicrous. The dialogue between Clem and Lee is fantastic, but the entire "campman" thing is complete and utter bullshit.
I agree. While there are some rough bits, the overall writing is excellent and the final scenes with Clem and Lee were well written and acted.
My only complaint is that there was no variability in the finale. I would have preferred there being a chance for anyone to die or live based on how you had developed your relationships with them, each other and what choices you make in the final episode.
And I do think that cutting Lee's arm off should have had more influence on how things ultimately played out.
The likelyhood of us playing as Clem is extremely slim. Yes, she might become a protagonist like Carl did in the comics, but again, it's unlikely. What made the game so appealing was the fact the player was protecting this little girl. It'd be a whole 'nother ballgame if we were forced to be her.
Yeah you could be right because she is still very young, would be an unusual protagonist, but it could be quite a different game, think no punching people and fighting off hordes with a meat cleaver stuff like Lee was doing but having to survive in other ways, it could be very interesting.
However, I was half expecting a scene at the end where you see a much older Clem, like 20 years old or something, only identifiable by her hat
That would have made a more likely Clem protagonist for a second game, and given the first game a happy ending because Lee's actions would have all been validated right there!
TellTale should've dropped the whole walkie-talkie business. That ruined the story. It was absolutely masterful up until the end of episode 4. The whole tension between Lilly and Kenny, the struggle to survive and make tough choices on who gets to eat. Raiding places for supplies. Finding a boat. Taking shelter.
Then Clementine got kidnapped and Lee got bit. How conveniently doom and gloom.
Episode 3 should've erased the whole walkie-talkie concept and just stuck with the main message: survival. Maybe they should've ended the season with Clem finding her parents (in a more dramatic way, because episode 5's way was terrible) and have her kill them to defend Lee or something. Maybe Lee gets bit at the end of the season. I don't fucking know, all I know is the writers' efforts to make a effective villain failed and thus the entire plot fell to pieces before my eyes . The goal should've been just to survive with your group.
I was angry at campman, not for being a bad guy, but sucking so fucking hard at it. He's easily one of the lamest villains I've encountered in a game.
I need to stop thinking about episode 5, otherwise I'll hate the series. It's that bad to me.
There's a difference between disagreeing and just blindly dickriding TellTale, like so many posters here are doing. Once the Fridge Logic hits them, they'll get what we're venting about.
I didn't care for the Campman thing really, didn't make any sense. But calling people dickriders and stuff is confrontational just because of disagreements. I wish some things had been done better. But overall I feel the game accomplished what it set out to do.
-Molly isn't even referenced
-No way to save Ben/Kenny
-Not everything is explained
-We of course are left with a cliffhanger instead of the two people being Omid and Christa
I didn't care for the Campman thing really, didn't make any sense. But calling people dickriders and stuff is confrontational just because of disagreements. I wish some things had been done better. But overall I feel the game accomplished what it set out to do.
I'm not calling you a dickrider, I think I know why you liked it. But there have been people on these forums and others just blindly defending TellTale's poor storytelling. I'm sorry if you were offended. I love the game, I just hate this episode, lol.
You got that too? And in the game, Campman accused me of letting Clem eat human meat. I know for a fact I stopped her. What the fuck?
Huh , I forgot that quick how that part went. he just accused me of bringing her there in the first place. I''ll have to go back and see if he said that to me as well.
As far as the chart goes yeah it was a pain in the rear. It said I didn't defend Kenny and Duck in the store when I did. ( unless you HAVE to tell him to kick Larry's ass) and it said I didn't give Larry CPR when I did. I'm going to replay the game in its entirety, but man that was disappointing to see that part of the game messed up, telling me I did or didn't do things I did or did not do.
I'm okay that Lee died. I really enjoyed the race against his infection. I do wish there were ways to save Kenny and the others. I would have felt like Lee's sacrifice was worth it. Multiple endings would have been nice. Its kind of a bummer that no matter what choices you make the ending is essentially the same.
Can everybody shut up about saying that the reason people hate the ending is because they're complaining about Lee dying?! I've seen this comment so many times but I'll say it again. It's because the CHOICES DIDN'T MATTER. I chopped off my arm. I fully accepted that Lee was going to die but I figured chopping off my arm could buy me some time and that might be exactly what I needed. What bothers me the most is the fact that what seemed to be the big choice of who comes with you and did you reveal the bite doesn't matter. The group finds out your bitten anyway and doesn't care and you go back to the mansion anyway and meet back with the group. I went with everyone and I thought that my adventure would be so much more intense than other people's, but it's exactly the same! I saved Ben's life, but his big "moment" was him standing up to Kenny. He still screwed up again in the end and got Kenny killed. Kenny's death in both situations felt forced. I hope he's still alive because it was ambiguous. Campan, or "The Man Who Masterminded the Game" was horribly disappointing. I always thought that decision was more of a moral dilemma to teach Clementine if stealing was wrong of if survival was more important. I didn't know it was the biggest decision in the game! Wait...No, it wasn't. He still kidnaps Clementine and hates Lee if you DON'T STEAL. I thought it was interesting how he chastised Lee for his bad decisions but you can tell they were really reaching for some of them. I thought most of my decisions were right and he said I was a bad guy because I brought Clementine to Crawford, I brought her to the dairy, and...that's it. I couldn't even decide one of those. The final episode should've been a big, "You brought these people. The story branches off this way and you get this moral dilemma instead of this one." I saw a guy on YouTube who does these playthroughs and I noticed before I played that this episode was only 9 parts, contrary to the other's 14 and 15 part lengths. I figured that was because of the massive replayability of this episode. Nope. The ONLY excuse for an ending as forced and as rushed as this is if we continue with this cast for season 2. I don't want that to happen but it's the only way. There should've been moments in this episode where if you made one decision, you wasted time, didn't get to Clementine, and see that she's already a walker. NOTHING in this episode changes. The only change that happens is if you save Ben or not and that's very minor. Believe it or not, I did like this episode. I just needed to vent. I thought the ending was very nice and heartbreaking but when the episode ended and the Walking Dead logo went up, I was taken aback. This episode was really short, as opposed to the much longer Around Every Corner, which had much more branching paths.
I'm okay that Lee died. I really enjoyed the race against his infection. I do wish there were ways to save Kenny and the others. I would have felt like Lee's sacrifice was worth it. Multiple endings would have been nice. Its kind of a bummer that no matter what choices you make the ending is essentially the same.
Yeah. I think game developers need to really stop and think in this post Mass Effect 3 industry. The big message of the ME3 controversy was that choices and endings are important to players. They want a satisfying ending (which has been a well known fact of storytelling for millennia) and they want their choices to matter.
TTG should have paid more attention to that second one because in gaming satisfaction in the ending is directly tied to player choices having meaning.
In a way Bioware have pretty much made it the case that many players are no longer willing to put up with the illusion of choice. They want multiple endings and for their actions to have a genuine impact on the game's narrative.
I also didn't like how if you chop your arm off, the exact same stuff happens besides your group making inappropriate amputee jokes. And if they wanted to make a good villain, they should've had Campman be picking off members of your group or doing SOMETHING evil. I think it would've been better if it was revealed he was like a relative to the senator Lee killed or something. I actually thought his story was tragic until he started talking to his wife's severed head. At that point I knew that I shouldn't have felt bad for stealing from him and I should be proud because I nearly killed a complete psycho that day.
Doctanian...believe it or not..some people are okay with the choices not meaning much in the end, and all those other flaws you consider flaws.
It's not dickriding..it's called having our OWN OPINION.
If you like it, fine. But I'm sick of people trying to argue me down and then resort to the classic "It's my opinion" copout when I call them on their bullshit. Episode 5 was trash. Clem and Lee's final moments together was the only thing worth buying this episode for. I listed all the plot holes and inconsistencies that made this episode rubbish. And no one has refuted them. Instead they say shit like "Well, I liked it." Okay, that's fine, but it has nothing to do with the fact of why we have such a stupid villain with a Rube Goldberg-like plan.
If you liked it, cool. But don't try to come at me telling me why I should like the episode and then get defensive when I explain to you all the shit wrong with it. That's my problem. That's why I called majority of people on these types of forums dickriders. If you don't classify under that, then don't be offend.
Ehm... Again it's not about Lee dying (some of my favorite Heavy Rain endings are where it partly goes to shit). And it isn't about 'click this get branch A' either. If you've played heavy rain you would know that for instance a scene is about you disposing of fingerprints you've left behind in a store. Either you manage it on time, or you are called in by the police changing the next segment of the game for this one character. It's not about having a concrete choice about where the game is going, but that your choices end up CHANGING the story (even if the completely opposite of what you think is going to happen does).
So I think you're misunderstanding what I'm looking for here. Because what I'm looking for is what was advertised as their major selling point.
I totally agree. This game is sold as an interactive story that "adapts to the choices you make", which i guess technically it changes slightly. If you were being honest about it though the STORY doesn't actually adapt it's just some small sections of the dialogue that "adapts"...
For all the "choices" i made, the story would have been the same, same people die, same people live, you go to the same places etc
If you like it, fine. But I'm sick of people trying to argue me down and then resort to the classic "It's my opinion" copout when I call them on their bullshit. Episode 5 was trash. Clem and Lee's final moments together was the only thing worth buying this episode for. I listed all the plot holes and inconsistencies that made this episode rubbish. And no one has refuted them. Instead they say shit like "Well, I liked it." Okay, that's fine, but it has nothing to do with the fact of why we have such a stupid villain with a Rube Goldberg-like plan.
If you liked it, cool. But don't try to come at me telling me why I should like the episode and then get defensive when I explain to you all the shit wrong with it. That's my problem. That's why I called majority of people on these types of forums dickriders. If you don't classify under that, then don't be offend.
Sorry you feel that way. There are alot of reasons why I liked episode (i posted this on another forum):
I loved it. The parallelism to the first episode was great and the character interaction was also amazing. And of course, right when Ben redeems himself in the eyes of the group, he bites it. And Kenny too. When it prompted Lee to grab the bust I didn't, but my heart leaped in my chest when Kenny grabbed it. But when he threw it away, I knew that deep down the man cared for Lee. Man Kenny could be a bastard at times, but the second he left, I missed him.
And then we come to Omid and Christa. I really like both of their characters and figured they'd be the great successors to take care of Clem after Lee eventually succumbed. Plus I also noticed their like split versions of Lee, with Christa being black and Omid being the history professor. Okay maybe not so much.
Then we come to the stranger. To be honest, once I saw the station wagon outside, I knew that it'd be the owner inside. But I hated how he kept accusing you of things you did, without even knowing the story behind it. There are always two sides to a story, and he's only getting one. Also I guess I had a sort of loop hole with killing the stranger. I don't think Clem thinks he's dead, because she asked Lee whether or not it'd be okay to leave him. But I learned my lesson from the farmer bros back in episode 2; I wasn't going to kill a human (no matter how fucked up he was) in front of Clem again.
And finally we come to the end. The finale. The goodbye. At this point, I pretty much resigned myself to Lee's death and only looked toward's Clementine's future. Talking her through the escape was great and the sequence with the zombie guard had me in a panic. And when all was said and done and I knew she had to shoot Lee. She already saw her parents turned, and my word I can't believe how well she handled that. I didn't want her to have to see Lee turned as well so I knew there could only be one choice. And I know she'll come out stronger because of it. I made sure that she knew how to get to Omid and Christa, because I figured that telling her to go solo wasn't the right thing. She made it this far with the help of everyone, and if she never trusted any strangers, then she would've never met Lee. Plus by now, I think she's figured out the signs of when someone's riding the crazy train. My final words to her, even though it broke my heart, weren't "I'll miss you," even though I wanted to say that more than anything. But I didn't want this to be any harder than it had to be, so I just told her "Don't be afraid."
Those are my reasons...
I hear why you didn't like the episode..I just don't really care, and your coming as one of those "stop liking what I like" type of people. No offense.
Complaining about lack of multiple endings umm when were we ever promised more then one ending. This story is mostly about the small things changing and the choices do matter but it wont change the ending that doesn't make these choices not matter i just means that this was Lees path and now its over.
Sides we dont know if these choices really dont matter since they will carry over to season 2 so people are jumping the shark by saying nothing they did mattered. And people who call it poor writing are just butthurt people have always complained about poor writing only and i mean only when things they didnt want to happen occurred calling it poor writing is a way of making you feel better because you didnt get your ways
No, the difference is nuance. Telltale has said from the start that your choices would not drastically effect the outcome of the story, they effect the texture of the story, they effect how people behave and how they respond to you and their motivations for the things they do.
That's not lazy writing, that's two completely different ways to get to the same point. It's not a choose-your-own-adventure book. The ending was set in stone from the beginning.
Good points. I feel like the choices don't really matter as in when the ending comes together. I feel like it matters more during the journey and how it is experiences to get to that ending. Which is the main point, and how the game advertises itself as... A *tailored* experience. Meaning, Everyone will have *different* experiences getting to sadly... The same solution.
I don't know if the finale was that terrible, but I agree with most of the OP points. However, at best, the finale was workmanlike. Everyone knew where it was going; it was just a matter of getting everything done. It was kind of boring.
Other than not being sure who was going to die, we didn't learn much interesting in this episode. Kenny's (and Ben's) death was lame. The Stranger's was good because Clem helped, but otherwise meh. Lee's was expected, but it was handled ok.
The twist with the cancer survivors taking the boat was nonsensical.
The radio guy had no connection to Lee's or Clem's past. He was just some guy. There was no reason for him to be built up as a huge villain, since he was basically nobody.
We found out that the attic kid's parents killed themselves, which was good to know but irrelevant.
Clem's parents were dead, as expected.
I liked when Lee got Clem back and taught her a few more things before dying. That was a good bit. I'm also glad that he could kind of give her a hug, instead of just being a robot.
I liked some of the discussions, like in the attic. However, those discussions also removed more tension between characters. It's almost like having the good and bad guys sit down and talk about their differences. Sure, that's what real people should do, but it doesn't make a good story.
I hear why you didn't like the episode..I just don't really care, and your coming as one of those "stop liking what I like" type of people. No offense.
And I hear why you liked the episode. And I could care less as well. As for the backhanded "stop liking what I like" comment, that doesn't even make any sense, dude.
I really enjoyed this game and this episode, but since this seems to be a vent topic, here goes:
1. Couldn't Kenny have just shot Ben in the head and then climbed back up the ladder?
2. The whole episode seemed rushed. It was shorter than the others, and it felt like a lot of stuff was left out. They all seemed to run all over town with little trouble, even though there are thousands of walkers around. Did the group just get around without issues?
3. Did Clementine pull Lee into the store? WTF?
Really, other than that, all was good. I give it a 9/10. Loved the ending. What a damn cliffhanger.
Good points. I feel like the choices don't really matter as in when the ending comes together. I feel like it matters more during the journey and how it is experiences to get to that ending. Which is the main point, and how the game advertises itself as... A *tailored* experience. Meaning, Everyone will have *different* experiences getting to sadly... The same solution.
The problem is that this is counterintuitive to narrative cause and effect - as the first season has shown. The plot has had to get more and more contrived o keep all the threads pointing in the same direction. To the point that we have the Stranger, the most contrived element of the plot, basically waving away all your choices as "it's still all your fault."
The point being, if you are going to allow choices to be made, then you need to accept that your story cannot have a single ending. It's no surprised the audience isn't all unanimously happy. Bioware learned this, Square-Enid learned this - it's not like this is some surprise.
The fact is, regardless of what TTG said about the ending, they created an expectation for many that their choices would matter and trying to go back to "tailored" as a defense is pure semantics.
There are members of the audience now being clear that they wanted those choices to matter more. Hopefully TTG will take that on board and put more effort into doing that with the second season.
At least nobody is screaming for a rewrite of season one's ending.
(and possibly some others) where the main character dies, I find this making your main character die thing becoming overdone, cliched, and just a giant big middle finger to the player.
The radio guy had no connection to Lee's or Clem's past. He was just some guy. There was no reason for him to be built up as a huge villain, since he was basically nobody.
Am I the only one who always has to laugh when reading "Just some guy" after playing episode 1?
Anyway, I disagree on this. I thought the fact that he was a nobody was more surprising than anything story-related could be. Many people suspected he would have some kind of tie to Lee's past, but that only means that it would have been predictable. I personally liked that his hate was driven by one of the choices that seemed irrelevant compared to others during the game, but his explanation made sense. What I did not like however is that he is mad at you no matter what you do. I was hoping that by proving you only did good he would give up on Clementine and commit suicide or something.
However, I agree with most other points in this thread. I didn't dislike everything in this episode, I actually like some scenes as well, but it's true that much is missing to have some kind of conclusion.
I honestly belive episode 5 was epic.. I'm guessing The Walking Dead is suppose to e played by heartless rocks, chrizza
Just kidding... The episode got some little derps, but I don't think it was boring, not at all. Also, even when it was god-damn obvious that Clementine's parents would be dead, I still was shocked the way clementine found out they were dead. As soon as Lee passes out, you don't know what Clementine was going to do (go for her parents, leave lee...).
Going to another point... Of course there was "no tension at all", at this point we just wanted to know what would happen with clementine, making our way to the marsh house impossible would just break that moment of -panic-. I wish the ending cutscene had a little more of tension, but the rest of the episode was just fine.
Lastly... All of those "climbing bits" weren't supposed to be exciting, actually, even with all of those walkers, and the one who almost dropped you off the ladder, I think the point of that scene was just to relax us a little bit lol
- There was constant tension to get to Clem on time and especially with the scene with Ben, trying to help him up when he was hurt. I found it had more tension then most episodes.
- I think Clem didn't fully believe they were alive herself and it somewhat gave her closure to see them dead. As sad as it may be she can now move on and no longer have to worry for them. Besides the fact that she didn't really have any time to get upset over it, especially being surrounded by zombies with a dying Lee.
- Plothole but still no reason to hate the episode :P
- Perhaps thats just you because that guy creeped the crap out of me, especially when he was speaking to his deads wife head in a bag. I honestly loved how they took something I figured to be so unimportant and bit me in the ass with it. When I saw the car outside the hotel I start to squirm because I had stolen from the car and I knew I was going to get hell for it. Really good writing in my opinion.
- Thats good in my opinion it IS based from the same universe, it's good they link back to it.
- Same as above also it's just logical...
- It was used to express the fact that there wasn't much time left for Lee, he couldn't stay bitten for long without becoming weak.
- I don't understand why that is a point, it wasn't used a lot.
- I guess you should of saved Bens life then. Would of made a lot better story. My Kenny sacrificed himself and used his last bullet on Ben so Ben wouldn't have to suffer (and Ben was really scared of becoming a walker), and stayed by him so Ben didn't have to die alone. Although I think it was silly for Kenny to not just shoot Ben and leave I think it was great that they finally came to a understand to point that Kenny would do that for him.
how can people say this masterpiece was terrible, i cried, you cant say it was bad just because Lee died and you are upset if you are having a strong emotion then the story did its part. are these people trolling?
We found out that the attic kid's parents killed themselves, which was good to know but irrelevant.
Also that isn't true, those were the next door neighbors. I just thought it was kinda sad, holding hands as you died together because you know you'd rather get it done quick then suffer. Kinda...sweet in a way?
When Lee covered himself and Clem in walker guts and they walked out into the swarm, did anyone else think it was going to start raining, to mirror the scene from the TV show? There were definetely some dark stormy looking clouds on the horizon as you made your way towards the end of the street. Thought I heard the distant sound of thunder as well.
Calling it terrible is unfair, it definitely wasn't terrible, it wasn't as good as it could have been though. I had issues with
No Vernon and his crew
Omid and Christa disappearing
Kenny with a very anticlimactic ending
Radiobastard had no plan. Seriously, his plan was to ask to keep Clem? And what if you refuse? Oh well... uh... no. The guy didn't even have backup incase you want to kill him.
The resolution to Clems parents was incredibly clumsy, rushed and deeply unsatisfactory.
how can people say this masterpiece was terrible, i cried, you cant say it was bad just because Lee died and you are upset if you are having a strong emotion then the story did its part. are these people trolling?
Uh, nobody in this thread said that.
I for once didn't mind Lee dieing (the ending together with Clementine is one of the few things I actually liked about this episode), although the way he got bit left me unsatisfied.
Complaining about lack of multiple endings umm when were we ever promised more then one ending. This story is mostly about the small things changing and the choices do matter but it wont change the ending that doesn't make these choices not matter i just means that this was Lees path and now its over.
Sides we dont know if these choices really dont matter since they will carry over to season 2 so people are jumping the shark by saying nothing they did mattered.
Many people posted things like: "I understand it's impossible to make many, many story threads fit together throughout several episodes." That's certainly true. But in the last episode anything was possible. They had the chance to make a gazillion endings based on the decisions throughout the game without worrying that these events wouldn't fit with those other players experienced.
Instead, you get that cliffhanger which is meant to do just what you said: Create the tiny hope that at least next time your decisions will matter. Well, they won't. If the next season includes this seasons' cast, there will be something happeneing in the first few minutes that renders all those decisions pointless again. Because else they'd have the mentioned problem again that every player has a differently trained Clem.
I was kinda sad our choices didn't matter who we brought, we were still bitten and perditcable way it ended. They could made it a lot more fun. I think they ran out of gas. It almost got boring.
I personally liked that his hate was driven by one of the choices that seemed irrelevant compared to others during the game, but his explanation made sense. What I did not like however is that he is mad at you no matter what you do. I was hoping that by proving you only did good he would give up on Clementine and commit suicide or something.
I liked that as well and that's a perfect example. I made nothing but what I believed to be good choices and the guy still blamed me for stealing(I was against it), blamed me for letting Doug die(he probably would've said the same thing if I saved him instead of Carley), and bringing Clementine to the dairy(but I was AGAINST it when we had the choice originally. The group put it to a vote and I HAD to go). Definitely the worst episode. I think the worst thing about it besides my previous statement about choice not mattering is that it was so anti-climatic and forgettable. All I remember is Lee dying. During the fight scene with Campman, there wasn't any music! That really got rid of all of the tension. This is still one of my favorite games but it saddens me that I'm not able to say "Every episode was amazing."
Comments
Actually Lee hasn't failed, not if Clem survives and goes on to do something important.
From the looks of the end, it seems you might be Clem in the second game (if there is one).
It is a standard feature of story structure that has been around for 1000s of years that the tutor *must* die or leave so that the person they were caring for can prove they are a hero themselves. If they never get to do that the tutor was a pointless character in the first place, because you never get to see what the person they were caring for actually learned.
So, if Clem is the main character that you control in the second game, Lee pretty much had to die or be removed from the story in some other way so that everything he did could be validated.
The likelyhood of us playing as Clem is extremely slim. Yes, she might become a protagonist like Carl did in the comics, but again, it's unlikely. What made the game so appealing was the fact the player was protecting this little girl. It'd be a whole 'nother ballgame if we were forced to be her.
I agree. While there are some rough bits, the overall writing is excellent and the final scenes with Clem and Lee were well written and acted.
My only complaint is that there was no variability in the finale. I would have preferred there being a chance for anyone to die or live based on how you had developed your relationships with them, each other and what choices you make in the final episode.
And I do think that cutting Lee's arm off should have had more influence on how things ultimately played out.
Yeah you could be right because she is still very young, would be an unusual protagonist, but it could be quite a different game, think no punching people and fighting off hordes with a meat cleaver stuff like Lee was doing but having to survive in other ways, it could be very interesting.
However, I was half expecting a scene at the end where you see a much older Clem, like 20 years old or something, only identifiable by her hat
That would have made a more likely Clem protagonist for a second game, and given the first game a happy ending because Lee's actions would have all been validated right there!
Then Clementine got kidnapped and Lee got bit. How conveniently doom and gloom.
Episode 3 should've erased the whole walkie-talkie concept and just stuck with the main message: survival. Maybe they should've ended the season with Clem finding her parents (in a more dramatic way, because episode 5's way was terrible) and have her kill them to defend Lee or something. Maybe Lee gets bit at the end of the season. I don't fucking know, all I know is the writers' efforts to make a effective villain failed and thus the entire plot fell to pieces before my eyes . The goal should've been just to survive with your group.
I was angry at campman, not for being a bad guy, but sucking so fucking hard at it. He's easily one of the lamest villains I've encountered in a game.
I need to stop thinking about episode 5, otherwise I'll hate the series. It's that bad to me.
You got that too? And in the game, Campman accused me of letting Clem eat human meat. I know for a fact I stopped her. What the fuck?
I didn't care for the Campman thing really, didn't make any sense. But calling people dickriders and stuff is confrontational just because of disagreements. I wish some things had been done better. But overall I feel the game accomplished what it set out to do.
-Molly isn't even referenced
-No way to save Ben/Kenny
-Not everything is explained
-We of course are left with a cliffhanger instead of the two people being Omid and Christa
I'm not calling you a dickrider, I think I know why you liked it. But there have been people on these forums and others just blindly defending TellTale's poor storytelling. I'm sorry if you were offended. I love the game, I just hate this episode, lol.
Huh , I forgot that quick how that part went. he just accused me of bringing her there in the first place. I''ll have to go back and see if he said that to me as well.
As far as the chart goes yeah it was a pain in the rear. It said I didn't defend Kenny and Duck in the store when I did. ( unless you HAVE to tell him to kick Larry's ass) and it said I didn't give Larry CPR when I did. I'm going to replay the game in its entirety, but man that was disappointing to see that part of the game messed up, telling me I did or didn't do things I did or did not do.
It's not dickriding..it's called having our OWN OPINION.
Yeah. I think game developers need to really stop and think in this post Mass Effect 3 industry. The big message of the ME3 controversy was that choices and endings are important to players. They want a satisfying ending (which has been a well known fact of storytelling for millennia) and they want their choices to matter.
TTG should have paid more attention to that second one because in gaming satisfaction in the ending is directly tied to player choices having meaning.
In a way Bioware have pretty much made it the case that many players are no longer willing to put up with the illusion of choice. They want multiple endings and for their actions to have a genuine impact on the game's narrative.
If you like it, fine. But I'm sick of people trying to argue me down and then resort to the classic "It's my opinion" copout when I call them on their bullshit. Episode 5 was trash. Clem and Lee's final moments together was the only thing worth buying this episode for. I listed all the plot holes and inconsistencies that made this episode rubbish. And no one has refuted them. Instead they say shit like "Well, I liked it." Okay, that's fine, but it has nothing to do with the fact of why we have such a stupid villain with a Rube Goldberg-like plan.
If you liked it, cool. But don't try to come at me telling me why I should like the episode and then get defensive when I explain to you all the shit wrong with it. That's my problem. That's why I called majority of people on these types of forums dickriders. If you don't classify under that, then don't be offend.
I totally agree. This game is sold as an interactive story that "adapts to the choices you make", which i guess technically it changes slightly. If you were being honest about it though the STORY doesn't actually adapt it's just some small sections of the dialogue that "adapts"...
For all the "choices" i made, the story would have been the same, same people die, same people live, you go to the same places etc
Sorry you feel that way. There are alot of reasons why I liked episode (i posted this on another forum):
I loved it. The parallelism to the first episode was great and the character interaction was also amazing. And of course, right when Ben redeems himself in the eyes of the group, he bites it. And Kenny too. When it prompted Lee to grab the bust I didn't, but my heart leaped in my chest when Kenny grabbed it. But when he threw it away, I knew that deep down the man cared for Lee. Man Kenny could be a bastard at times, but the second he left, I missed him.
And then we come to Omid and Christa. I really like both of their characters and figured they'd be the great successors to take care of Clem after Lee eventually succumbed. Plus I also noticed their like split versions of Lee, with Christa being black and Omid being the history professor. Okay maybe not so much.
Then we come to the stranger. To be honest, once I saw the station wagon outside, I knew that it'd be the owner inside. But I hated how he kept accusing you of things you did, without even knowing the story behind it. There are always two sides to a story, and he's only getting one. Also I guess I had a sort of loop hole with killing the stranger. I don't think Clem thinks he's dead, because she asked Lee whether or not it'd be okay to leave him. But I learned my lesson from the farmer bros back in episode 2; I wasn't going to kill a human (no matter how fucked up he was) in front of Clem again.
And finally we come to the end. The finale. The goodbye. At this point, I pretty much resigned myself to Lee's death and only looked toward's Clementine's future. Talking her through the escape was great and the sequence with the zombie guard had me in a panic. And when all was said and done and I knew she had to shoot Lee. She already saw her parents turned, and my word I can't believe how well she handled that. I didn't want her to have to see Lee turned as well so I knew there could only be one choice. And I know she'll come out stronger because of it. I made sure that she knew how to get to Omid and Christa, because I figured that telling her to go solo wasn't the right thing. She made it this far with the help of everyone, and if she never trusted any strangers, then she would've never met Lee. Plus by now, I think she's figured out the signs of when someone's riding the crazy train. My final words to her, even though it broke my heart, weren't "I'll miss you," even though I wanted to say that more than anything. But I didn't want this to be any harder than it had to be, so I just told her "Don't be afraid."
Those are my reasons...
I hear why you didn't like the episode..I just don't really care, and your coming as one of those "stop liking what I like" type of people. No offense.
Open forum yes. Venting thread is made to vent. So if you liked the game why even read their vent coments? To attack them, no?
Sides we dont know if these choices really dont matter since they will carry over to season 2 so people are jumping the shark by saying nothing they did mattered. And people who call it poor writing are just butthurt people have always complained about poor writing only and i mean only when things they didnt want to happen occurred calling it poor writing is a way of making you feel better because you didnt get your ways
Good points. I feel like the choices don't really matter as in when the ending comes together. I feel like it matters more during the journey and how it is experiences to get to that ending. Which is the main point, and how the game advertises itself as... A *tailored* experience. Meaning, Everyone will have *different* experiences getting to sadly... The same solution.
Other than not being sure who was going to die, we didn't learn much interesting in this episode. Kenny's (and Ben's) death was lame. The Stranger's was good because Clem helped, but otherwise meh. Lee's was expected, but it was handled ok.
The twist with the cancer survivors taking the boat was nonsensical.
The radio guy had no connection to Lee's or Clem's past. He was just some guy. There was no reason for him to be built up as a huge villain, since he was basically nobody.
We found out that the attic kid's parents killed themselves, which was good to know but irrelevant.
Clem's parents were dead, as expected.
I liked when Lee got Clem back and taught her a few more things before dying. That was a good bit. I'm also glad that he could kind of give her a hug, instead of just being a robot.
I liked some of the discussions, like in the attic. However, those discussions also removed more tension between characters. It's almost like having the good and bad guys sit down and talk about their differences. Sure, that's what real people should do, but it doesn't make a good story.
So ... overall ... meh. Maybe the worst episode?
And I hear why you liked the episode. And I could care less as well. As for the backhanded "stop liking what I like" comment, that doesn't even make any sense, dude.
1. Couldn't Kenny have just shot Ben in the head and then climbed back up the ladder?
2. The whole episode seemed rushed. It was shorter than the others, and it felt like a lot of stuff was left out. They all seemed to run all over town with little trouble, even though there are thousands of walkers around. Did the group just get around without issues?
3. Did Clementine pull Lee into the store? WTF?
Really, other than that, all was good. I give it a 9/10. Loved the ending. What a damn cliffhanger.
The problem is that this is counterintuitive to narrative cause and effect - as the first season has shown. The plot has had to get more and more contrived o keep all the threads pointing in the same direction. To the point that we have the Stranger, the most contrived element of the plot, basically waving away all your choices as "it's still all your fault."
The point being, if you are going to allow choices to be made, then you need to accept that your story cannot have a single ending. It's no surprised the audience isn't all unanimously happy. Bioware learned this, Square-Enid learned this - it's not like this is some surprise.
The fact is, regardless of what TTG said about the ending, they created an expectation for many that their choices would matter and trying to go back to "tailored" as a defense is pure semantics.
There are members of the audience now being clear that they wanted those choices to matter more. Hopefully TTG will take that on board and put more effort into doing that with the second season.
At least nobody is screaming for a rewrite of season one's ending.
And yes, also short.
Am I the only one who always has to laugh when reading "Just some guy" after playing episode 1?
Anyway, I disagree on this. I thought the fact that he was a nobody was more surprising than anything story-related could be. Many people suspected he would have some kind of tie to Lee's past, but that only means that it would have been predictable. I personally liked that his hate was driven by one of the choices that seemed irrelevant compared to others during the game, but his explanation made sense. What I did not like however is that he is mad at you no matter what you do. I was hoping that by proving you only did good he would give up on Clementine and commit suicide or something.
However, I agree with most other points in this thread. I didn't dislike everything in this episode, I actually like some scenes as well, but it's true that much is missing to have some kind of conclusion.
that's the only time i've felt like the choices mattered. talking to the group upstairs, and explaining myself to the camp guy
Just kidding... The episode got some little derps, but I don't think it was boring, not at all. Also, even when it was god-damn obvious that Clementine's parents would be dead, I still was shocked the way clementine found out they were dead. As soon as Lee passes out, you don't know what Clementine was going to do (go for her parents, leave lee...).
Going to another point... Of course there was "no tension at all", at this point we just wanted to know what would happen with clementine, making our way to the marsh house impossible would just break that moment of -panic-. I wish the ending cutscene had a little more of tension, but the rest of the episode was just fine.
Lastly... All of those "climbing bits" weren't supposed to be exciting, actually, even with all of those walkers, and the one who almost dropped you off the ladder, I think the point of that scene was just to relax us a little bit lol
- I think Clem didn't fully believe they were alive herself and it somewhat gave her closure to see them dead. As sad as it may be she can now move on and no longer have to worry for them. Besides the fact that she didn't really have any time to get upset over it, especially being surrounded by zombies with a dying Lee.
- Plothole but still no reason to hate the episode :P
- Perhaps thats just you because that guy creeped the crap out of me, especially when he was speaking to his deads wife head in a bag. I honestly loved how they took something I figured to be so unimportant and bit me in the ass with it. When I saw the car outside the hotel I start to squirm because I had stolen from the car and I knew I was going to get hell for it. Really good writing in my opinion.
- Thats good in my opinion it IS based from the same universe, it's good they link back to it.
- Same as above also it's just logical...
- It was used to express the fact that there wasn't much time left for Lee, he couldn't stay bitten for long without becoming weak.
- I don't understand why that is a point, it wasn't used a lot.
- I guess you should of saved Bens life then. Would of made a lot better story. My Kenny sacrificed himself and used his last bullet on Ben so Ben wouldn't have to suffer (and Ben was really scared of becoming a walker), and stayed by him so Ben didn't have to die alone. Although I think it was silly for Kenny to not just shoot Ben and leave I think it was great that they finally came to a understand to point that Kenny would do that for him.
Also that isn't true, those were the next door neighbors. I just thought it was kinda sad, holding hands as you died together because you know you'd rather get it done quick then suffer. Kinda...sweet in a way?
No Vernon and his crew
Omid and Christa disappearing
Kenny with a very anticlimactic ending
Radiobastard had no plan. Seriously, his plan was to ask to keep Clem? And what if you refuse? Oh well... uh... no. The guy didn't even have backup incase you want to kill him.
The resolution to Clems parents was incredibly clumsy, rushed and deeply unsatisfactory.
Some people. Can't enjoy the best of the best, for umm
20$
I for once didn't mind Lee dieing (the ending together with Clementine is one of the few things I actually liked about this episode), although the way he got bit left me unsatisfied.
"A tailored game experience – Live with the profound and lasting consequences of the decisions that you make in each episode. Your actions and choices will affect how your story plays out across the entire series."
Many people posted things like: "I understand it's impossible to make many, many story threads fit together throughout several episodes." That's certainly true. But in the last episode anything was possible. They had the chance to make a gazillion endings based on the decisions throughout the game without worrying that these events wouldn't fit with those other players experienced.
Instead, you get that cliffhanger which is meant to do just what you said: Create the tiny hope that at least next time your decisions will matter. Well, they won't. If the next season includes this seasons' cast, there will be something happeneing in the first few minutes that renders all those decisions pointless again. Because else they'd have the mentioned problem again that every player has a differently trained Clem.
I liked that as well and that's a perfect example. I made nothing but what I believed to be good choices and the guy still blamed me for stealing(I was against it), blamed me for letting Doug die(he probably would've said the same thing if I saved him instead of Carley), and bringing Clementine to the dairy(but I was AGAINST it when we had the choice originally. The group put it to a vote and I HAD to go). Definitely the worst episode. I think the worst thing about it besides my previous statement about choice not mattering is that it was so anti-climatic and forgettable. All I remember is Lee dying. During the fight scene with Campman, there wasn't any music! That really got rid of all of the tension. This is still one of my favorite games but it saddens me that I'm not able to say "Every episode was amazing."