Tropes vs. Women in Video Games
So, remember that whole brouhaha with that woman doing a Kickstarter to make a series looking at how women are portrayed in video games that got a lot of people behaving really, really badly?
Yeah, the first episode of her series went live yesterday: Damsel in Distress.
I watched it yesterday.
I had to fight not to fall asleep.
I get what she's doing, but she's doing it in a very dull manner. Her voice is very monotone, her script is full of "impressive" words, the cuts between takes is jarring and doesn't flow well at all, and what she's saying is stretched out far too much - she basically takes 20 minutes to say stuff that could easily be compressed into 5.
Also, and I freely admit this is a very silly thing to focus on, but those earrings are ridiculous. I can't take her even remotely seriously when those things are dangling around. Ugh.
Wondered what you guys thought of it.
Yeah, the first episode of her series went live yesterday: Damsel in Distress.
I watched it yesterday.
I had to fight not to fall asleep.
I get what she's doing, but she's doing it in a very dull manner. Her voice is very monotone, her script is full of "impressive" words, the cuts between takes is jarring and doesn't flow well at all, and what she's saying is stretched out far too much - she basically takes 20 minutes to say stuff that could easily be compressed into 5.
Also, and I freely admit this is a very silly thing to focus on, but those earrings are ridiculous. I can't take her even remotely seriously when those things are dangling around. Ugh.
Wondered what you guys thought of it.
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Comments
(Also the biggest problem with Curse of Monkey Island is what she illustrates, because Elaine is the very opposite of a damsel in distress)
I need to replay Curse now, as well as every single game she uses as an example. Yeah, I'm part of the problem, but she picked on Popeye, so screw her. Even if she's right.
That's racist!
No, this is not serious. But it is obvious where her examples come from. And what now? 15 parts "damsel in distress", one part "evil women" and then no part at all because heroines like Lara Croft or Jade are not interesting or do not fit a series called TropesVERSUSwomen? She talks about Prince of Persia, does she not know Elika, who saves the Prince a 1000 times? But she does announce to get to Elaine Marley EVENTUALLY.
Yes. Most men couldn't care less. The new Tomb Raider is out!
and all of this too.
It's not silly. That teal background is drab; her pink plaid shirt is ugly; she has too much makeup on her face; her eyeshadow is a slight shade of blue; her hair drawn back like that looks drab from that particular camera angle; and her eyebrows, which look drawn on, are too long and too thin.
And yes, her tone of voice is that of a news reporter, and she drags the topic out way too long.
EDIT: I know that my criticism is largely about her appearance, but the truth is that presentation is key to winning over your audience. Her appearance is a part of her presentation, so it matters.
Also, my wife doesn't like Pierce Brosnan because his chest is really hairy. Nevermind that GoldenEye is a good movie. And she's not at all shallow.
And women do gossip among themselves about whether they think a guy is hot. The swooning fits they have over Taylor Lautner (the actor who plays Jacob from Twilight) are evidence enough of that.
Tell me you can't pay attention to him because you think his pony tail is silly, his shirt is dumb, or his room looks cluttered.
From Youtube v
But he's wearing casual clothing that doesn't clash with the background or his skin tone, and while his hair is pulled back, it still frames his face properly. And the clutter only matters if it has nothing at all remotely to do with the topic at hand or his internet persona in general, or if any part of it is particularly flashy for no apparent reason.
If this woman was wearing the same clothing he is, (or similar, like her grey hoodie in other videos) it wouldn't matter. Similarly, if he was wearing 00 (double-zero) gauge earrings, or had a big tattoo on his arms, or was morbidly obese or something like that, yes it would be distracting (to varying degrees, of course) just as her earrings and makeup are also distracting.
... Well, I say that, but it depends on the subject matter. Her earrings might not be so distracting if she actually had vocal inflections that sounded like she actually cared about the discussed topic. The only reason why it seems that she cares is not because of her tone, but the fact that she won't shut up about it.
And, for the record, my wife very rarely wears makeup, and she looks great:
You see those eyebrows? Those are normal women eyebrows.
THIS woman, on the other hand, has eyebrows that are obviously drawn with a makeup pencil:
And again I say that that shirt is ugly. it doesn't matter who wears it.
Like I say - I get what she was trying to say. She just doesn't say it in a particularly engaging manner.
Well, then we need Puzzlebox or Avistew to come in here and give comment about your and her presentation from a woman's perspective.
For which you are hereby banned for a month.
...:p
Now pardon me while I watch a video or two to get a proper perspective.
EDIT: Watching The Bond 25. I have to say that, myself being an American, right out of the gate your accent makes you far more interesting than her.
Okay, you're using your hands, and you have inflection in your voice. She does neither.
And you look around while you talk and think instead of persistently staring directly into the camera. It lends believability that you mean what you're saying.
EDIT AGAIN: ...and I was so interested in watching that video that I forgot I was supposed to be critiquing your presentation.
I don't care that the resolution of your camera or the lighting conditions aren't that great. You show personal interest in the subject matter through your body language and vocal inflections; you lay out your viewpoints in a way that is meaningful to the viewer; and your general appearance is light and casual.
You have stuff in the background behind you but we don't care because none of it stands out too much--and because it's organized clutter, not mess. If you had empty food wrappers and stuff, that would be mess. The one eye-catching thing in the background is the 007 wallpaper on your monitor, but you're reviewing 007 films, so it makes sense.
Oh, and back to physical appearance, I like the beard. It works for you.
This is one of the reasons why I'm a dude on every other forum I go to.
There are always strong reactions by Youtubers. For everything.
And I don't have a strong reaction so much as the video is boring, so since there's a thread about it here, I picked it apart. If there wasn't a thread or if it was in WOYM, I would have either not watched it or else turned it off after a couple of minutes and left it at that.
The overall feeling that the video is too dull to maintain interest for the duration of it is a perfectly valid criticism, and it's the one of the worst things the video could be. Why would I want to watch it if it's not particularly interesting? Why would anyone?
Criticise the video, but bashing the commenter LIKE THAT? That's just crap.
There's definitely a point in Nintendo exploiting the DID to an absurd degree in its early years. Maybe because characters just weren't complex, and the most elementary stereotypes were the only ones that made sense to be integrated. Maybe because it was - to the target audience - the most understandable motivation for the hero. Anita Sarkeesian (yes, she has a NAME!) talks a lot about the objectification of women as a "goal" in these games. That is certainly true. Yet if you're a desperate video game designer with just a few pixels and lines of text at your disposal, what do you go for? A heap of gold or rather at least the mild suggestion of a living, breathing and thankful creature?
Of course video games today regress to the theme time and again. As do books. And movies. Occasionally, you will find strong women as heroes. And they are internationally revered - but we will have to ask ourselves if that reverence has to do with those characters being exceptions to the rule.
Sarkeesian heavily seizes on Nintendo. They're probably the worst offenders, and it might have been a bit unwise to get all apologetic for the Japanese culture. But even the DID influx in present games, including the pantyshot trope in all the Double Dragon incarnations, still primarily stems from Manga/Anime media. If that's what Sarkeesian wishes to seize on, we'll have a thousand versions of that video by the end of the year.
What might really help in this discussion is a broader view on storytelling principles. Lots of stories only work when someone needs to be saved. Be it a beautiful woman, a man or the whole fucking world. I can't always point the finger to say "exploitation". I'm all for the abducted NPC to launch their own rescue attempt, and I'm all for characters who do not just sit down in their prison cell screaming the name of the hero all day. But let's face it, it's the utter and complete helplessness of an abducted person (note I'm desperately not saying if it's a male or female one) that triggers emotions, that motivates the shit out of us for a rescue attempt. To put it bluntly, the less active the rescuee is, the more active (and powerful!) the rescuer feels. This might be seen as an elementary trigger for the feeling of interactivity in games.
We will have to lead a healthy discussion about whether this "trigger" just appeals to primal male sentiments in us and needs to be abolished for the sake of women's liberation. I say: A whole lot of stories - even some good ones - would just cease to exist.
For now, I'll treat this first video as nothing more than a history lesson. An interesting one, mind you - I personally did not fall asleep as Marsden did. I'm sure Sarkeesian will find a lot of the DID in present games too. Besides the countries those games will be from (Japan... and Poland?), it will be interesting to evaluate which genres use the trope most heavily. I'd assume that it's those with least storytelling and most action, and I'm rather thankful that I'm not the one to figure this out, thank you Mrs. Sarkeesian!
Yeah, the new Tomb Raider is out. We have seldom seen such an asskicking damsel in distress. Because the Rambo and Peach tropes don't mix. But whatever.
The early examples are from the Arcades. People need to get in, quickly understand at least the basics and what they're doing, and you want them to either keep pumping in quarters as a single player or get people in and out quickly as a line of players.
You don't stop to tell the player a story. You don't stop to talk for several minutes on end about a complex motivation to walk right and punch dudes in the face.
So, what do you do?
You lean back on narrative tropes that already exist, that the player can be expected to understand in a visual sequence that lasts all of five seconds before being given control of a player character.
Honestly, I think people approaching the problem of EARLY uses of the trope from the "girl as a prize" angle are thinking of the problem backwards.
The Secret of Monkey Island-Escapes LeChuck on her own
Monkey Island 2 LeChuck's revenge-Is Governor of Melee & Booty island and tries to save Guybrush
The Curse of Monkey Island-She fights Lechuck in a pirate battle and shoots a sword out of Lechuck's hand stopping him from killing Guybrush. She is turned into a statue but then at the end of the game when she is back to normal she helps Guybrush stop Lechuck
Escape From Monkey Island-She tries to win back her governorship of Melee,Booty, and Plunder islands against
Tales of Monkey Island-She is captured for 10 minutes in Ep 1
Ep 2- helps Guybrush & Lechuck save the Merpeople queen by coming up with a plan then telling Guybrush to go find La Esponja Grande.
Ep 3- she is shown being effected by the pox of Lechuck while the human Lechuck tries to calm her down.
Ep 4 she returns to Flotsam Island and is somehow able to smell Guybrush's & Morgan's time in Ep 3. After a sword fight where a full raged poxed Elaine & Morgan, Guybrush manages to trick Elaine into going to defend him in pirate court only due to the pox of Lechuck Elaine makes things far more worse only for Lechuck to come and save Guybrush. Guybrush then goes off to save Elaine only for
Ep 5-She has a plan to stop Lechuck and agrees to become Lechuck's bride knowing Guybrush will save her. But now she is evil and in love with Lechuck and keeps killing Guybrush's ghost until he comes back as a zombie. Its when Guybrush manages to shrink La Esponja Grande that Elaine comes back to normal and helps destroy Lechuck with Guybrush & Morgan.
Yeah i don't think Elaine is a Damsel in Distress
Seems to me more she picks the worst examples because THAT's what her video is about. You can't quite identify a trope when you list examples of the contrary.
This is "Tropes versus women", not "Tropes versus women and possibly also for women a bit if I still have time at the end of my video series". Nope. That would be boring, wouldn't it? :cool:
I doubt that a word will be breathed about how Nintendo broke their serious damsel streak in a scandalous manner when they revealed Samus' identity. While Mrs. Elaine Marley will make an appearance (where Curse will undoubtedly feature prominently), we will probably not hear about an Alix, Ada, April Ryan, Elika, Jade, Shepard, Lucca, Chell or a Dr. Rho Bowman. Possibly not even about a Lara Croft - unless the lady with the marsden-mystifying earrings finds fault with all their portrayals as well.
It's the only way to combat all of this sexism.
Now THERE's your sexism.
Also, that lady needs to throw away her thesaurus. I wish her luck though, as the issues do exist, even if I don't always agree with the assertions and conclusions of many feminists.
I kinda want to see her reaction to this particular character:
Also, this has been floating around as a satire of some of the ridiculous statements made by people about Anita.. Even if people don't agree with her, some of the comments and attackshave been quite depressing. It's crazy how much controversy this has caused amongst people.
But yes, much of the backlash against Anita only confirms what she's saying (and many of us know). I don't understand the logic decrying her claims of sexism in games by hurling pejorative sexist attacks at her.
Part of me thinks most of those negative comments are coming from the same people who spew racist/homophobic comments over places like XBox love. Most of them dumb teenagers. But you never know.
Quite frankly I'm depressed that we even need to have this discussion.
In the meantime, comments on the video are disabled. Well, that was the only possible decision. I tend to see us in a halfway enlightened age where the wise path is clear, yet still hard to follow with our backpack full of ugly history. Having seen those YouTube commenters does break my heart. It is as if the scum of the world gathers right there. But it does bring me to watching Sarkeesian's series more intently and with less cynicism. That way, I'll eventually give those youtube commenters a spanking.
And that has totally nothing to do with an outdated male misogynist chivalry that I might or might not pursue.
I know a lot of Youtubers that produce better videos free of charge.
Honestly though, I'm not yet seeing where the money's really gone.
EDIT: Oh wait - here it is.
I assume that stack of Wii games she's leaning on indicates there's even more behind the XBox ones.
Money well spent. :rolleyes:
Aw, man. I love Olive Oyl. Sure, she's pretty much just a damsel in distress in the cartoons, but the non-condensed version is a straight-up feminist portrayal.
Besides, once you shoot up an entire gang of cowboy outlaws, your "damsel in distress" status is pretty much void.
(and it wasn't followed by a ton of shock over a woman standing her ground, which has got to be the only thing more annoying than just plain helpless)
Basically, she uses Popeye as an early example of having a damsel in distress. Olive Oyl, in those early cartoons, was exactly that, hence the show being used as an example.