Did someone change the name of this thread, or am I just on drugs?
No, seriously guys. I'm kinda freaking out right now.
This thread already existed, so I moved the off-topic posts from the King's Quest cancellation thread to this one, since the posts are actually on-topic here.
This thread already existed, so I moved the off-topic posts from the King's Quest cancellation thread to this one, since the posts are actually on-topic here.
Oh thank god. I thought my brain was off for the entirety of that conversation.
So... Telltale's new direction, huh? I personally prefer if they went a bit more east, myself.
i really can't believe that people who claim to be point and click adventure game fans would actually say that the walking dead game isn't a game and has no gameplay, seriously what do old school point and click adventures have in terms of gameplay that the walking dead doesn't have? (i don't count harder puzzles as more game play)
i think there is a large audience that would like more challenging puzzles, but just not done in the same way that the old school games do it, it's hard to explain but there is more than one type of getting stuck in an adventure game, the type that i hate and i think is the reason adventure games aren't as popular now is the type of stuck when you have no idea what you are supposed to do and no goal or objective (or the goal or objective you have is like 5 puzzles away) so you end up just going everywhere in the game, pixel scanning and using everything on everything until you finally get back into the story, another kind of stuck is when you know exactly what you are supposed to do but you haven't figured out how, so you explore everywhere trying to find the solution to the problem and that is the type of getting stuck in a game that is good.
perhaps telltale have concentrated more on trying to avoid the first kind of stuck and less on enhancing the second kind, but it seems to me that telltale are trying to improve what adventure games are all about and not just redoing the exact same thing over and over and i think that is good.
OK. Clearly, we need to re-evaluate the genre of "adventure game". And as a mod, I am officially stepping in to do so, because apparently you're all too hopelessly engaged in pointless arguments to do it yourselves.
Ahem.
The traditional adventure game, the one Telltale started off making, are what shall henceforth be known as "Classic Adventures". Games that have a strong emphasis on puzzle solving that work in context with the story to allow further progress. Your Monkey Islands, your Sam & Maxes, your Broken Swords (except for #3, obviously) - they all fall under this category, especially if they're practically unplayable without a mouse cursor.
The more recent adventure games that focus much more on telling a strong story with basic (or non-existent) puzzles are "Story Adventures". These would include Telltale's more recent efforts - BTTF, Jurassic Park and The Walking Dead - where the emphasis is on character interaction and strong narratives, with very little to do in terms of full-on puzzles beyond basic fetch quests.
Games like Professor Layton, which have a strong narrative but puzzles which are practically unconnected to them and serve more as minigames than traditional puzzles shall henceforth be known as "Puzzle Adventures", and really, we need more of these, especially on the (3)DS. Ever think about porting the Puzzle Agent games over to a handheld, Telltale? Would probably sell pretty well...
Games that make you hunt through numerous pictures to find a certain number of hidden objects shall be known as "Failed Adventures", and can FUCK RIGHT OFF.
These terms are now legal and binding, and anyone not using them will be immediately banned.
OK. Clearly, we need to re-evaluate the genre of "adventure game". And as a mod, I am officially stepping in to do so, because apparently you're all too hopelessly engaged in pointless arguments to do it yourselves.
Ahem.
The traditional adventure game, the one Telltale started off making, are what shall henceforth be known as "Classic Adventures". Games that have a strong emphasis on puzzle solving that work in context with the story to allow further progress. Your Monkey Islands, your Sam & Maxes, your Broken Swords (except for #3, obviously) - they all fall under this category, especially if they're practically unplayable without a mouse cursor.
The more recent adventure games that focus much more on telling a strong story with basic (or non-existent) puzzles are "Story Adventures". These would include Telltale's more recent efforts - BTTF, Jurassic Park and The Walking Dead - where the emphasis is on character interaction and strong narratives, with very little to do in terms of full-on puzzles beyond basic fetch quests.
Games like Professor Layton, which have a strong narrative but puzzles which are practically unconnected to them and serve more as minigames than traditional puzzles shall henceforth be known as "Puzzle Adventures", and really, we need more of these, especially on the (3)DS. Ever think about porting the Puzzle Agent games over to a handheld, Telltale? Would probably sell pretty well...
Games that make you hunt through numerous pictures to find a certain number of hidden objects shall be known as "Failed Adventures", and can FUCK RIGHT OFF.
These terms are now legal and binding, and anyone not using them will be immediately banned.
- END OF LINE -
i agree with these classifications but there needs to be a classification for classic adventure games that still give the same aspects of classic games but aren't stuck in the past, because that is the type adventure games i want to play
i agree with these classifications but there needs to be a classification for classic adventure games that still give the same aspects of classic games but aren't stuck in the past, because that is the type adventure games i want to play
i agree with these classifications but there needs to be a classification for classic adventure games that still give the same aspects of classic games but aren't stuck in the past, because that is the type adventure games i want to play
I'd still class those under "Classic", because, as you say, they have classic aspects to them and they're still the same sort of game, just with a few modern elements to them.
OK. Clearly, we need to re-evaluate the genre of "adventure game". And as a mod, I am officially stepping in to do so, because apparently you're all too hopelessly engaged in pointless arguments to do it yourselves...
Even that list doesn't begin to scratch the surface. I was once going to group the adventure games I cover in my blog into categories, and I realized there are really hundreds of sub-genres of the adventure genre, making it an impossible task.
As I said in another topic, the adventure genre has been constantly evolving since the day it started in 1975 (well, at least since it took off in 1977). The Adventure International games were different from Colossal Cave Adventure, the Infocom games were different from the Adventure International games, the Sierra games were different from the Infocom games, the LucasArts games were different from the Sierra games (and, even then, the early games from any of these companies were different from their later games). Throw companies like Cyan, Revolution, and Telltale into the mix and you have more differing game styles (add the later games from these companies into the mix, and you have even more differing game styles).
I said in the post I linked above that adventure games consisted of "an inventory and puzzles to solve", but MusicallyInspired corrected me in that what makes an adventure is a story and puzzles (any puzzles, difficulty has never had any bearing on genre). "Puzzles" is just a blanket term, because like Vainamoinen said, an argument on what constitutes "puzzles" can last for hundreds of pages in a thread.
These arguments are pointless anyway, since people have always been stubborn about their favorite genres for as long as they have existed. There are still people out there who refuse to acknowledge that graphic adventures and text adventures are sub-genres of the same overall genre.
See, now, I worded my choices VERY carefully so that every game you could think of as an 'adventure' would fall under one of those four subgenres. I didn't just throw them out willy-nilly. I PLANNED this thing. Like, properly.
You give me an example - anything - and I'll tell you exactly why it's one of those four. Without fail.
See, now, I worded my choices VERY carefully so that every game you could think of as an 'adventure' would fall under one of those four subgenres. I didn't just throw them out willy-nilly. I PLANNED this thing. Like, properly.
You give me an example - anything - and I'll tell you exactly why it's one of those four. Without fail.
Go on. Try me.
the cave it is described as a platformer but the platforming isn't the challenge so??? and scribblenaughts
Games that make you hunt through numerous pictures to find a certain number of hidden objects shall be known as "Failed Adventures", and can FUCK RIGHT OFF.
EVERY SINGLE FAILED ADVENTURE GAME EVER. Lazy-ass pieces of shit.
I mean specifically which games? Tiny Bang Story? That's not an adventure game. Especially since it has no directly controllable characters and no ending.
Apparently I haven't played these games, so I don't know what you're on about.
There's a whole bunch of games who's main selling point - so much so that they proudly proclaim it on the back of the case when sold at retail - to be a 'hidden object game' (the Samantha Swift series is a good example), and for some reason people insist that these are adventure games.
They are not.
Doubly irritating is when previously "Classic" adventures become hidden object games - the Art of Murder and Chronicles of Mystery series both did this.
The thing about hidden object games is that they're cheaper and quicker to make than "Classic" adventure games, so if you're on the lookout for adventure games you'll see quite a few of them lumped into the same category, and THEY ARE NOT PROPER ADVENTURE GAMES.
They may have stories to them, but the stories are usually badly done and just an excuse to get to the next hidden object puzzle, which is why I object to them so much. There's just so bloody many of them...
Both The Cave and Scribblenauts are puzzle-platformers. Neither are particularly hard, but that doesn't change their genre.
Except The Cave relies on an inventory system, putting it squarely in the adventure genre.
Meaning it should fit in one of your above four genres, and it doesn't.
Neither does Mr. Smoozles Goes Nutso or Shenmue (or even the original Colossal Cave Adventure). Like I said, it's pretty much impossible to group adventures into neat little subgenres, since there's so much variation.
There's a whole bunch of games who's main selling point - so much so that they proudly proclaim it on the back of the case when sold at retail - to be a 'hidden object game' (the Samantha Swift series is a good example), and for some reason people insist that these are adventure games.
They are not.
there are also loads of facebook games like this, and yes they suck and aren't adventure games, the only similarity between these games and classic adventure games is the pixel scanning/searching for items and i think that particular aspect of classic adventure games is pretty much agreed upon that this was not a good part of the games and highlighted hotspots are used now
There's a whole bunch of games who's main selling point - so much so that they proudly proclaim it on the back of the case when sold at retail - to be a 'hidden object game' (the Samantha Swift series is a good example), and for some reason people insist that these are adventure games.
Oh.
Those are casual puzzle games. I personally classify all such games with the other arcade-y style games (such as Peggle or Collapse) in a classification I call "PopCap games".
They're not adventure games at all an shouldn't even be worthy of mention. They might be fun in their own right, but they're the type of game you merely play on a coffee break.
edit: Speaking of which, I would also put the "Coffee Break" minigame from Mario Paint into that same "PopCap game" category if it were actually its own game.
Except The Cave relies on an inventory system, putting it squarely in the adventure genre.
Meaning it should fit in one of your above four genres, and it doesn't.
Neither does Mr. Smoozles Goes Nutso or Shenmue (or even the original Colossal Cave Adventure). Like I said, it's pretty much impossible to group adventures into neat little subgenres, since there's so much variation.
Don't think I didn't see that, Jenny!
Allow me to explain why The Cave is a puzzle-platformer. The inventory aspect is no more complex than Cave Story or any number of other platformers, and since you can only carry one object at a time and the solution is PAINFULLY obvious, the puzzles are clearly not the main focus. Which leaves the story, which isn't really there except at the beginning and end, and the gameplay, which is platforming. Hence, puzzle-platformer.
Shenmue isn't an adventure game - it's an action-adventure, the same as Yakuza. Tell me the similarities aren't there.
I'd classify Mr. Smoozles Goes Nutso as a puzzle game with an unusually strong narrative, though I haven't played it to verify this. But hey ho.
And wow, we've gone and gotten off-topic again, haven't we. Oops. Some mod I am.
I only finished Tales a week ago and I'm getting to the point I'm starting to run out of Classic point and clicks games to play...
I miss Classic adventure games but I still have hope that Telltale will eventually make more...
I will only lose hope when Sam and Max are moved into the 'Classics' area of the forum...
Still I did enjoy TWD and probably will enjoy Fables but...
It just isn't the same
Except The Cave relies on an inventory system, putting it squarely in the adventure genre.
The Cave has an inventory system? I thought you could only carry one object per person, and if you had to pick up something else, you had to drop the first thing you were carrying.
The Cave has an inventory system? I thought you could only carry one object per person, and if you had to pick up something else, you had to drop the first thing you were carrying.
That's what she meant. See my rebuttal on the previous page.
Thanks quite a few of them look promising especiallly Discworld
Still it is my birthday tomorrow and I'm getting Day of the Tentacle so that should keep me occupied for a couple of weeks
And wow, we've gone and gotten off-topic again, haven't we. Oops. Some mod I am.
We're not off-topic. We were talking about how TTG's games are, in fact, adventure games--just a different subgenre of adventure games. Then we were talking about games of other potential adventure game subgenres.
Though I don't think "Failed Adventures" should be a contender since it's pertains more to peoples' ignorance about the genre than about the games' warrant to be included in it.
EDIT: Incidentally, I don't remember people ever getting all up in arms about how Dragon's Lair isn't a real game, and it's more QTE than even Jurassic Park is.
Shenmue isn't an adventure game - it's an action-adventure, the same as Yakuza. Tell me the similarities aren't there.
Yakuza has a bigger emphasis on action (and no inventory outside of weapons to carry), whereas Shenmue has a bigger emphasis on exploration (and has an inventory and puzzles to solve).
Allow me to explain why The Cave is a puzzle-platformer. The inventory aspect is no more complex than Cave Story or any number of other platformers, and since you can only carry one object at a time and the solution is PAINFULLY obvious, the puzzles are clearly not the main focus. Which leaves the story, which isn't really there except at the beginning and end, and the gameplay, which is platforming. Hence, puzzle-platformer.
This is the problem that happens when you try to whittle adventure games down to sub-genres, and is the same thing that's happening with people trying to claim Telltale's games aren't adventures.
The inventory system has been streamlined in The Cave (much like how it was stream-lined in The Walking Dead), but it's still there. The gameplay is still mostly about using inventory objects on gameworld objects. The platforming aspect is just a control method.
As for the puzzle's difficulty, like I said, that's never a determinant for genre.
The story here is obtained through playing each character's tale. You learn what awful thing they are given a choice to do as you're playing the game, and learn the consequences of their choices (either choosing to do that awful thing or to be the better person and not do it). Its lean story, with mainly a beginning and an end (with some story elements learned through playing through to each ending), is much like Maniac Mansion (and that's what Ron was aiming for). The whole game is like a streamlined Maniac Mansion. You could easily change Maniac Mansion to use the game play of The Cave, but that wouldn't mean that Maniac Mansion was no longer an adventure game.
We're not off-topic. We were talking about how TTG's games are, in fact, adventure games--just a different subgenre of adventure games. Then we were talking about games of other potential adventure game subgenres.
Though I don't think "Failed Adventures" should be a contender since it's pertains more to peoples' ignorance about the genre than about the games' warrant to be included in it.
In all honesty, "Failed" was just me messing around. Hidden object games are exactly that - "Hidden Object Games". It's an actual genre and I was just taking the piss out of it.
Yakuza has a bigger emphasis on action (and no inventory outside of weapons to carry), whereas Shenmue has a bigger emphasis on exploration (and has an inventory and puzzles to solve).
OK, Yakuza's more action-oriented, but I'd still say they're still the same category.
Again, I'd argue that the weak inventory system and lack of any truly complex puzzles mark this out as a puzzle-platformer than an actual adventure game. I'm not saying all adventure games must have a complex inventory and fantastically difficult puzzles, but they have to be at least somewhat challenging, and I never once got that from The Cave. It just felt like a platformer without any combat and some basic puzzles, and it got old very quickly.
As well done as the titular Cave was, I never felt it was particularly crucial to listen to any of what he said. There's a basic plot to the game and optional backstory for the characters, but there's no real story to be told, and again, I feel that's a significant aspect that marks it as a puzzle-platformer.
Now quit arguing with me. I have laid down the law, and if you disagree again I'll be forced to send my attack helicopters to your house. As soon as I can find the keys. Might need to build a metal detector to do that, there's a lot of crap in my room. Now what detects metal? Magnets! And how do we build magnets...
EDIT: Incidentally, I don't remember people ever getting all up in arms about how Dragon's Lair isn't a real game, and it's more QTE than even Jurassic Park is. Is Dragon's Lair an adventure game?
People have claimed that Dragon's Lair isn't a real game. A lot.
Dragon's Lair is a game, since you can die if you do nothing (in order to not be a game, your choices would have to be arbitrary... think something made up of nothing but Telltale's dialog system in The Walking Dead (not that I'm saying The Walking Dead isn't a game, since it's obviously more than just it's dialog system, and even then sometimes choosing nothing causes you to die), if you don't choose anything it defaults to (...), but you still get past it and will get to see the ending regardless of choice).
Dragon's Lair is definitely not an adventure game. The thing that makes Jurassic Park: The Game an adventure game is the sequences of exploration where you have to talk to characters, investigate objects, and manipulate objects in the game's world.
If you need more classic adventure games, try some of these. Should keep you going.
that reminds me that i would like to see another try at video/photo style classic adventure games like The Beast Within: A Gabriel Knight Mystery that was awesome and i really like the actor who played Gabriel Knight
that reminds me that i would like to see another try at video/photo style classic adventure games like The Beast Within: A Gabriel Knight Mystery that was awesome and i really like the actor who played Gabriel Knight.
People stopped making those a while back because they were fairly expensive, pretty time consuming and the sub-genre of FMV games had a terrible reputation.
As far as I'm aware, the last one made was Darkstar in 2011. Give that one a try.
Again, I'd argue that the weak inventory system and lack of any truly complex puzzles mark this out as a puzzle-platformer than an actual adventure game. I'm not saying all adventure games must have a complex inventory and fantastically difficult puzzles, but they have to be at least somewhat challenging, and I never once got that from The Cave. It just felt like a platformer without any combat and some basic puzzles, and it got old very quickly.
Did you play the scientist level? I thought that level had more challenging puzzles than Telltale's latest.
Although some elements of The Cave are reminiscent of Maniac Mansion, I don't think holding one item at a time qualifies as an inventory.
You can also pick up individual stuff in the Portal series and use them on other stuff; plus there's a story. But I wouldn't call Portal a 3D adventure game so much as a 3D puzzle platformer.
so basically a jump button mean it's not an adventure game at all, i agree with portal though, the gameplay to me reminded me of pure puzzle games (flash style 2D games) i have played the only difference was that it was first person and i didn't rate the story telling at all in portal 1, to me is was basically non existent, i only heard there was more of a story than a broken (but funny) A.I in a testing lab from the internet
The Cave has an inventory system? I thought you could only carry one object per person, and if you had to pick up something else, you had to drop the first thing you were carrying.
So its the one item inventory system used in Mixed-Up Mother Goose and Mixed-Up Fairy Tales
in order to not be a game, your choices would have to be arbitrary...
Actually for something to not be a game, there would have to be no choices or interactions at all. A movie is not a game, as there are no choices.
A choose your own adventure is a 'gamebook' thus a game.
See Sierra's own Slater & Charlie Go Camping which is a game, it has interactivity but actually no 'choices'. It's a kid's game. But more of an animated pop-up book. No way to die, and a narrator tells the story. The interactivity comes from the child being able to click on and discover secret animations on the screen, or interact with the text to help with reading comprehension.
so basically a jump button mean it's not an adventure game at all
I wouldn't say a jump button automatically disqualifies your game from being an adventure, but if your gameplay does feature jumping as a core mechanic, then it does raise a flag.
Comments
Oh thank god. I thought my brain was off for the entirety of that conversation.
So... Telltale's new direction, huh? I personally prefer if they went a bit more east, myself.
Implying west hasn't always been the best choice for anyone to take. punk
i think there is a large audience that would like more challenging puzzles, but just not done in the same way that the old school games do it, it's hard to explain but there is more than one type of getting stuck in an adventure game, the type that i hate and i think is the reason adventure games aren't as popular now is the type of stuck when you have no idea what you are supposed to do and no goal or objective (or the goal or objective you have is like 5 puzzles away) so you end up just going everywhere in the game, pixel scanning and using everything on everything until you finally get back into the story, another kind of stuck is when you know exactly what you are supposed to do but you haven't figured out how, so you explore everywhere trying to find the solution to the problem and that is the type of getting stuck in a game that is good.
perhaps telltale have concentrated more on trying to avoid the first kind of stuck and less on enhancing the second kind, but it seems to me that telltale are trying to improve what adventure games are all about and not just redoing the exact same thing over and over and i think that is good.
Ahem.
The traditional adventure game, the one Telltale started off making, are what shall henceforth be known as "Classic Adventures". Games that have a strong emphasis on puzzle solving that work in context with the story to allow further progress. Your Monkey Islands, your Sam & Maxes, your Broken Swords (except for #3, obviously) - they all fall under this category, especially if they're practically unplayable without a mouse cursor.
The more recent adventure games that focus much more on telling a strong story with basic (or non-existent) puzzles are "Story Adventures". These would include Telltale's more recent efforts - BTTF, Jurassic Park and The Walking Dead - where the emphasis is on character interaction and strong narratives, with very little to do in terms of full-on puzzles beyond basic fetch quests.
Games like Professor Layton, which have a strong narrative but puzzles which are practically unconnected to them and serve more as minigames than traditional puzzles shall henceforth be known as "Puzzle Adventures", and really, we need more of these, especially on the (3)DS. Ever think about porting the Puzzle Agent games over to a handheld, Telltale? Would probably sell pretty well...
Games that make you hunt through numerous pictures to find a certain number of hidden objects shall be known as "Failed Adventures", and can FUCK RIGHT OFF.
These terms are now legal and binding, and anyone not using them will be immediately banned.
- END OF LINE -
i agree with these classifications but there needs to be a classification for classic adventure games that still give the same aspects of classic games but aren't stuck in the past, because that is the type adventure games i want to play
Exploratory adventures?
As I said in another topic, the adventure genre has been constantly evolving since the day it started in 1975 (well, at least since it took off in 1977). The Adventure International games were different from Colossal Cave Adventure, the Infocom games were different from the Adventure International games, the Sierra games were different from the Infocom games, the LucasArts games were different from the Sierra games (and, even then, the early games from any of these companies were different from their later games). Throw companies like Cyan, Revolution, and Telltale into the mix and you have more differing game styles (add the later games from these companies into the mix, and you have even more differing game styles).
I said in the post I linked above that adventure games consisted of "an inventory and puzzles to solve", but MusicallyInspired corrected me in that what makes an adventure is a story and puzzles (any puzzles, difficulty has never had any bearing on genre). "Puzzles" is just a blanket term, because like Vainamoinen said, an argument on what constitutes "puzzles" can last for hundreds of pages in a thread.
These arguments are pointless anyway, since people have always been stubborn about their favorite genres for as long as they have existed. There are still people out there who refuse to acknowledge that graphic adventures and text adventures are sub-genres of the same overall genre.
You give me an example - anything - and I'll tell you exactly why it's one of those four. Without fail.
Go on. Try me.
the cave it is described as a platformer but the platforming isn't the challenge so??? and scribblenaughts
I like that list. It should be added somewhere official.
...like Wikipedia.
What games are you referring to here?
Both The Cave and Scribblenauts are puzzle-platformers. Neither are particularly hard, but that doesn't change their genre.
Apparently I haven't played these games, so I don't know what you're on about.
They are not.
Doubly irritating is when previously "Classic" adventures become hidden object games - the Art of Murder and Chronicles of Mystery series both did this.
The thing about hidden object games is that they're cheaper and quicker to make than "Classic" adventure games, so if you're on the lookout for adventure games you'll see quite a few of them lumped into the same category, and THEY ARE NOT PROPER ADVENTURE GAMES.
They may have stories to them, but the stories are usually badly done and just an excuse to get to the next hidden object puzzle, which is why I object to them so much. There's just so bloody many of them...
Meaning it should fit in one of your above four genres, and it doesn't.
Neither does Mr. Smoozles Goes Nutso or Shenmue (or even the original Colossal Cave Adventure). Like I said, it's pretty much impossible to group adventures into neat little subgenres, since there's so much variation.
there are also loads of facebook games like this, and yes they suck and aren't adventure games, the only similarity between these games and classic adventure games is the pixel scanning/searching for items and i think that particular aspect of classic adventure games is pretty much agreed upon that this was not a good part of the games and highlighted hotspots are used now
Those are casual puzzle games. I personally classify all such games with the other arcade-y style games (such as Peggle or Collapse) in a classification I call "PopCap games".
They're not adventure games at all an shouldn't even be worthy of mention. They might be fun in their own right, but they're the type of game you merely play on a coffee break.
edit: Speaking of which, I would also put the "Coffee Break" minigame from Mario Paint into that same "PopCap game" category if it were actually its own game.
Allow me to explain why The Cave is a puzzle-platformer. The inventory aspect is no more complex than Cave Story or any number of other platformers, and since you can only carry one object at a time and the solution is PAINFULLY obvious, the puzzles are clearly not the main focus. Which leaves the story, which isn't really there except at the beginning and end, and the gameplay, which is platforming. Hence, puzzle-platformer.
Shenmue isn't an adventure game - it's an action-adventure, the same as Yakuza. Tell me the similarities aren't there.
I'd classify Mr. Smoozles Goes Nutso as a puzzle game with an unusually strong narrative, though I haven't played it to verify this. But hey ho.
And wow, we've gone and gotten off-topic again, haven't we. Oops. Some mod I am.
I miss Classic adventure games but I still have hope that Telltale will eventually make more...
I will only lose hope when Sam and Max are moved into the 'Classics' area of the forum...
Still I did enjoy TWD and probably will enjoy Fables but...
It just isn't the same
The Cave has an inventory system? I thought you could only carry one object per person, and if you had to pick up something else, you had to drop the first thing you were carrying.
Still it is my birthday tomorrow and I'm getting Day of the Tentacle so that should keep me occupied for a couple of weeks
Though I don't think "Failed Adventures" should be a contender since it's pertains more to peoples' ignorance about the genre than about the games' warrant to be included in it.
EDIT: Incidentally, I don't remember people ever getting all up in arms about how Dragon's Lair isn't a real game, and it's more QTE than even Jurassic Park is.
This is the problem that happens when you try to whittle adventure games down to sub-genres, and is the same thing that's happening with people trying to claim Telltale's games aren't adventures.
The inventory system has been streamlined in The Cave (much like how it was stream-lined in The Walking Dead), but it's still there. The gameplay is still mostly about using inventory objects on gameworld objects. The platforming aspect is just a control method.
As for the puzzle's difficulty, like I said, that's never a determinant for genre.
The story here is obtained through playing each character's tale. You learn what awful thing they are given a choice to do as you're playing the game, and learn the consequences of their choices (either choosing to do that awful thing or to be the better person and not do it). Its lean story, with mainly a beginning and an end (with some story elements learned through playing through to each ending), is much like Maniac Mansion (and that's what Ron was aiming for). The whole game is like a streamlined Maniac Mansion. You could easily change Maniac Mansion to use the game play of The Cave, but that wouldn't mean that Maniac Mansion was no longer an adventure game.
OK, Yakuza's more action-oriented, but I'd still say they're still the same category.
Again, I'd argue that the weak inventory system and lack of any truly complex puzzles mark this out as a puzzle-platformer than an actual adventure game. I'm not saying all adventure games must have a complex inventory and fantastically difficult puzzles, but they have to be at least somewhat challenging, and I never once got that from The Cave. It just felt like a platformer without any combat and some basic puzzles, and it got old very quickly.
As well done as the titular Cave was, I never felt it was particularly crucial to listen to any of what he said. There's a basic plot to the game and optional backstory for the characters, but there's no real story to be told, and again, I feel that's a significant aspect that marks it as a puzzle-platformer.
Now quit arguing with me. I have laid down the law, and if you disagree again I'll be forced to send my attack helicopters to your house. As soon as I can find the keys. Might need to build a metal detector to do that, there's a lot of crap in my room. Now what detects metal? Magnets! And how do we build magnets...
Dragon's Lair is a game, since you can die if you do nothing (in order to not be a game, your choices would have to be arbitrary... think something made up of nothing but Telltale's dialog system in The Walking Dead (not that I'm saying The Walking Dead isn't a game, since it's obviously more than just it's dialog system, and even then sometimes choosing nothing causes you to die), if you don't choose anything it defaults to (...), but you still get past it and will get to see the ending regardless of choice).
Dragon's Lair is definitely not an adventure game. The thing that makes Jurassic Park: The Game an adventure game is the sequences of exploration where you have to talk to characters, investigate objects, and manipulate objects in the game's world.
that reminds me that i would like to see another try at video/photo style classic adventure games like The Beast Within: A Gabriel Knight Mystery that was awesome and i really like the actor who played Gabriel Knight
As far as I'm aware, the last one made was Darkstar in 2011. Give that one a try.
You can also pick up individual stuff in the Portal series and use them on other stuff; plus there's a story. But I wouldn't call Portal a 3D adventure game so much as a 3D puzzle platformer.
So its the one item inventory system used in Mixed-Up Mother Goose and Mixed-Up Fairy Tales
Actually for something to not be a game, there would have to be no choices or interactions at all. A movie is not a game, as there are no choices.
A choose your own adventure is a 'gamebook' thus a game.
See Sierra's own Slater & Charlie Go Camping which is a game, it has interactivity but actually no 'choices'. It's a kid's game. But more of an animated pop-up book. No way to die, and a narrator tells the story. The interactivity comes from the child being able to click on and discover secret animations on the screen, or interact with the text to help with reading comprehension.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FDH4cXBrpI
It leans this far on this side.
I would call Portal the best game ever.
Finally something we kinda agree on.
Now let's discuss again how disappointing Portal 2 was.