Directly oppose all of my strategies for survival? Fine with that. Constantly try to usurp leadership from me? Alright by me. Kill my dad? No problem. Call me a bitch? *gasp* immediate death!
It more then likely would never happen, but since I want to horribly murder her already then it's just one more reason to kill her, and I would make it a even slower death then I already thought of, which is saying something.
I would drive over to the St John Dairy (if you left them alive) and watch them cut her arms off and eat them. Then I would make them patch her up and she would have to stay in our group without arms! Then she wouldn't be able to shoot anybody and I would laugh at her all day.
Took care of her?!? She abandoned Clem on the roadside.
It's not like she left Clementine on her own. She left the whole group. But why did she leave the whole group? Probably because she thought it would be a case of her or them and she wanted to live. She was restrained on the RV, her mental health had deteriorated, she was becoming more and more paranoid and distrusting of others. It is not a stretch that she thought they were going to vote to kill her or abandon her so she left them before they left her. Who amongst us wouldn’t have done the same in that situation? It’s an apocalypse. Wyatt drove off and left his friend behind and if he leaves the car his friend abandons him. They both probably felt like shit afterwards and will both probably try to redeem themselves. Why should Lilly be different? I imagine she too felt guilty about taking the RV and if she is in season 2 that guilt will probably be shown. Lilly had a good caring relationship with Clem before her break down, Clem even references her care towards her on the train to Savannah.
I never saw her care about Clementine on screen, and if she really cared she would have taken Clementine, but since she left her to die I do not think she cared.
Seeing as how Lilly fans didn't mind that she abandoned Clementine and others to die when she selfishly stole the RV, and this was after she killed an innocent person for nothing, I'm sure most hardcore fans will either use Larry's death as an excuse or blame others.
I noticed that Lilly fans always forgive her for many things like :
1 Letting people die outside the pharmacy
2 Killing Carley/Doug
3 Stealing the RV
I don' want to start a flame war with Lilly fans i understand their reason for liking her but i don't like how they always forgive her , pity her and saying that she suffered more than Lee , Clementine and Kenny etc , and they always make both Kenny and Carley look like the bad guys .
With Kenny i understand that he did horrible things but in the end he atoned for his sins and Lilly fans criticize him for that too
With Carley Lilly fans hate her because Carley called her the B word , well she did that because Lilly was accusing her of being a traitor and she wasn't going to calm down .
So here's the scenario : Lilly and Clem are in season 2 and they meet , Lilly wants to kill her because she is a reminder of her crime and her father's death so when Clem turns her back she tries to shoot her but the new protagonist stops her .
If Lilly would do this would you fans and Lilly fans still forgive her and make Clementine look like the bad guy by saying " Well Clem reminds her too much of Carley/Doug and Larry so she has the right to kill her " or stop treating her like a victim and acknowledge her crime .
Lilly killing Clem is probably not the best scenario for testing the lengths people would go to in forgiving Lilly because no character would be forgiven for killing Clementine, not even Lee. That scenario is as hypothetical as you can get. That wouldn’t even be the character that Lilly fans grew attached to but for the sake of the thread I’ll answer it. If Lilly or any other character in the game killed Clem I would be pissed. She's an innocent little girl. The question I pose to you, which is far more realistic and likely if Lilly was intended to be in season 2 is; would you or any Lilly haters forgive her if she saved Clem? I know my feelings towards Ben would have changed tremendously had he of done so before he died.
Regarding the misconception of how Lilly fans see her, I’m sure we all acknowledge her crime, I certainly do but I also think that what she did was in the heat of the moment and she regretted or will go on to regret what she did, much like when Lee killed the Senator in the heat of the moment and went on to be haunted with nightmares and regret his actions. I’m not saying Lee and Lilly are the same or that their actions were the same I’m saying that neither were in their right minds when they did what they did. We forgive Lee because of the character he becomes. We judge him not on his past but on his present behaviour. I can't help but think that if Lilly was in season 2 she would redeem herself. Time will tell.
If she saved Clementine from something that would kill her, the reward from me would a quick bullet to the head, a painless death is something she does not deserve.
Ben is basically a child. Lily was gonna shoot the shit outta him. Why not Clem. Clem might take one to many energy bars and get shot in the back of the head too. Lily is a lunatic.
Randall in twd tv series was about Ben's age and they were gonna kill him. Ben had hair on his chin and most likely his balls, probably engaged in sex and drank beers with his friends before the apocalypse. He had a greater understanding of right and wrong than Clem who was half his age. He knew what he was doing was wrong hence why he hid the evidence. He stole and lied and probably wasn't looked upon as a child by Lilly. Think of the responsibility she gave him in Kenny and Lee's absence. He was responsible for the camp and would have been, at times, when everyone was sleeping. If he was Clem’s age I doubt Lilly would have wanted to shoot him. She probably would have shouted and screamed at him, maybe give him a slap.
I wouldn't say Ben was a child I would say he was a young man or as we say in the UK an adolescent. The stage between childhood and adulthood. He would be old enough to be arrested and incarcerated for committing crime.
I am sure he could not even talk to girls, let along go and farther then that, and he is really bad at lying so I do not think he has ever drank a beer.
Regarding the misconception of how Lilly fans see her, I’m sure we all acknowledge her crime, I certainly do but I also think that what she did was in the heat of the moment and she regretted or will go on to regret what she did, much like when Lee killed the Senator in the heat of the moment and went on to be haunted with nightmares and regret his actions. I’m not saying Lee and Lilly are the same or that their actions were the same I’m saying that neither were in their right minds when they did what they did. We forgive Lee because of the character he becomes. We judge him not on his past but on his present behaviour. I can't help but think that if Lilly was in season 2 she would redeem herself. Time will tell.
Lee's past is always being brought up to be compared to Lilly's action. Difference between the two is that Lee had a reason while Lilly didn't. Lee killed the senator in a fight by accident who was sleeping with his wife which would be classed as manslaughter and he showed regret while Lilly committed cold blooded murder on someone who did nothing to her and showed no regret. Even in the "heat of the moment", Lee took it out there and then on the person who caused him pain though I believe he wouldn't have thought of killing that person, Lilly had one week to recuperate and took it out on the wrong person, even as going far as murdering that person. We got no choice but to forgive Lee(or not) because we are him, we got no other choice but to play as him and keep him alive to progress through the story, yeah he killed before but that does not mean other people should do it just for the heck of it?, two wrongs don't make a right, should Clem kill innocent people because Lilly did so herself? No, nobody has the right to kill a person just because you suffered a tragic loss that the person you target had nothing to do with it or you simply don't like the person for some unknown reason and that is what Lilly did.
I think Lilly was more pissed that she had to leave the motor inn, than the actual situation she was just so eager to find out who to blame and convince the group to kill/leave/forgive that person. It's interesting how it would have turned out if Ben confessed in the RV....I think she would have killed him straight on the spot, then I would truly hate her and leave her ass. At least Carley/Doug would still be alive
If Ben admitted it on the spot I don't even think she would have wasted the bullet. I think she would have kicked him out of the RV. I think she was initially using scare tactics to break him into confessing but she grew flustered, frustrated and lost her head momentarily. She looked shocked afterwards just like how Kenny looked after he lost his head and smashed in Larry's skull. Heat of the moment, knee jerk reactions. In her right mind she’s quite tactical. She didn’t run out guns blazing when the bandits held the group hostage. She took a minute, made a rescue plan, took up her position and saved the hostages when Lee distracted them.
For the record she saved no one, Lee could have got the bandits to leave and then they could of drove away but nope she had to take the shot, she never even thought that Lee's plan could have worked.
Lee's past is always being brought up to be compared to Lilly's action. Difference between the two is that Lee had a reason while Lilly didn't. Lee killed the senator in a fight by accident who was sleeping with his wife which would be classed as manslaughter and he showed regret while Lilly committed cold blooded murder on someone who did nothing to her and showed no regret. Even in the "heat of the moment", Lee took it out there and then on the person who caused him pain though I believe he wouldn't think of killing that person, Lilly had one week to recuperate and took it out on the wrong person, even as going far as murdering that person. We got no choice but to forgive Lee(or not) because we are him, we got no other choice but to play as him and keep him alive to progress through the story, yeah he killed before but that does not mean other people should do it just for the heck of it?, two wrongs don't make a right, should Clem kill innocent people because Lilly did so herself? No, nobody has the right to kill a person just because you suffered a tragic loss that the person you target had nothing to do with it or you simply don't like the person for some unknown reason and that is what Lilly did.
I agree with you that it was wrong for Lilly to kill Carly, et al. I'm saying that if she was in season 2 she would probably redeem herself. The comparison I make with Lee and Lilly is that neither of them where in their right minds. Prior to both events they would probably not have imagined themselves doing what they did and may have looked back on it as uncharacteristic. I certainly did. The reason most people are forgiving regarding Lilly is because it is so uncharacteristic. She wasn't an evil killer throughout the series or an out and out villainous character. She was at times heroic, appreciative, caring, etc. That is why that incident is considered and referred to as the downhill spiral of Lilly. She wasn't like that before. We see how she got there. Some of us sympathise after that scene on the road because that is not the Lilly we knew and are hopeful she will get her redemption and regain hero status.
Everyone said that Ben would redeem himself, in a way he did, I thought he did, but some would disagree, if she is coming back Telltale will not play the redeeming card, they played that with Lee, Ben, Kenny, so I do not believe they will redeem her at all, she does not even want to redeem herself, if she did then she would not have taken the RV.
For the record she saved no one, Lee could have got the bandits to leave and then they could of drove away but nope she had to take the shot, she never even thought that Lee's plan could have worked.
Killing them was the plan. They had a gun to Clem's head I don't imagine any player intended for them to walk away from that if the option was available. They took Joleen's daughter, who's to say they wouldn't have attempted to take Clem and rape the women. Them leaving alive was never really an option. Lee was just trying to pacify them as a distraction so Lilly could take them out. He knew how dangerous and sick they were. He saw the video footage. That scene would definitely be on a montage reel for "Lilly's best bits." Right up there with her saving Lee from Danny and saving Lee from Andy with her weapon of choice.
You don't know if talking them down was a option, it could have worked, and those last two never happened, she did nothing and almost got me killed, explain how almost killing Lee was okay, and don't say it was heat of the moment, and while your at it Lilly told me if you bring her along that she should of killed Lee and Kenny instead of Carley, explain that also.
People talk about Lilly fans making excuses for Lilly and forgiving her for everything. What about Kenny fans? They will excuse Kenny disregarding all you have done for him in previous episodes because you put his family and him at risk in the meat locker if you help Lilly.
Even though Larry doesn't like Lee he will still save him when the walker is on him in ep2 for the good of the group, if Kenny dislikes Lee he will leave him to die at the hand of Danny in ep 2 and again in ep 3 at the hands of the walkers in spite of what Lee did for his family and him over the last 3 months. In those cases Kenny's actions are worse than Lilly because he knew what he was doing and left you for dead on purpose (he had not lost his mind or his temper), the only difference is Lee survived but Kenny had bad intentions Lilly acted in the heat of the moment and lost her head, an act that was not consistent of her character, whereas Kenny will leave you to die twice in a week. At least in the scenario when Lilly refuses to take the shot when Lee is struggling with Andy it is understandable because Lee restrained her so Kenny could throw the salt lick on her dad. Given the scenarios stated above, If Kenny can get redemption and be forgiven I don’t see why Lilly can’t if she was in season 2.
You don't know if talking them down was a option, it could have worked, and those last two never happened, she did nothing and almost got me killed, explain how almost killing Lee was okay, and don't say it was heat of the moment, and while your at it Lilly told me if you bring her along that she should of killed Lee and Kenny instead of Carley, explain that also.
Lilly could have killed Kenny at any time if she really wanted to. As i've said in previous posts when she was on the farm she could have very easily of shot Kenny and pretended it was an accident when aiming for Andy, like Rick did at the prison with Dexter in the comic so I don't think she was planning to kill Kenny. She also had an opportunity to kill him when he was on his knees as a hostage. She disliked Kenny but endured him for the good of the group.
I have played many scenarios in the game and I never heard Lilly say she should have killed Lee and Kenny instead of Carly. I give you the benefit of the doubt but I would say that she could very easily have killed Lee when he was getting the pencil on the RV since his back was turned to her and she got free of the ropes. So even if she said that it was out of anger and she wouldn’t have really done it. She proved that by not doing it even after being tied up.
You don't know if talking them down was a option, it could have worked, and those last two never happened, she did nothing and almost got me killed, explain how almost killing Lee was okay, and don't say it was heat of the moment, and while your at it Lilly told me if you bring her along that she should of killed Lee and Kenny instead of Carley, explain that also.
It's doubtful that there was any way out of the situation without killing the bandits. Even if you get the leader to calm down, the other bandits disagree a say "they don't want no hash" or to make another deal with the group. Besides, even if they convinced the bandits to strike another deal with them, the bandits would guess that Lee's group would want to escape now that their deal with Ben was no longer secret, and wouldn't risk giving them an opportunity to escape. The reason the bandits didn't have some kind of armed guard to prevent the group from leaving was since the group didn't know of the bandits and had no reason to leave after all.
Lilly gives the line about killing Lee if you sided with Kenny in the meat locker. Of course, she leaves you even if you sides with her:D. Though to be fair, she was obviously nuts and overly paranoid at the time, and probably thought if Lee agreed to go with her it was just some plot to prevent her escape or something. By then, she'd decided everyone was against her.
Also, leaving you to die multiple times without any remorse isn't much better than killing close friends in my book. Not that Lilly's a saint, but I really dislike both her and Kenny. Even after Kenny got his "redemption", which was really just a flimsy way to self-justify a pointless suicide.
Telltale games used all 5 episodes to try to emotionally connect you to Clementine, and it definitely worked. If Lilly killed Clementine, I would immediately kill her.
I agree with you that it was wrong for Lilly to kill Carly, et al. I'm saying that if she was in season 2 she would probably redeem herself. The comparison I make with Lee and Lilly is that neither of them where in their right minds. Prior to both events they would probably not have imagined themselves doing what they did and may have looked back on it as uncharacteristic. I certainly did. The reason most people are forgiving regarding Lilly is because it is so uncharacteristic. She wasn't an evil killer throughout the series or an out and out villainous character. She was at times heroic, appreciative, caring, etc. That is why that incident is considered and referred to as the downhill spiral of Lilly. She wasn't like that before. We see how she got there. Some of us sympathise after that scene on the road because that is not the Lilly we knew and are hopeful she will get her redemption and regain hero status.
I see no redemption with her, she has the same amount of chance at redemption as The Governor. Lee knew what he did was bad and stayed & faced the consequences, Lilly didn't care what she did and took an easy way out, a way out that put her group at risk.
I wouldn't call it uncharacteristic considering what she did before that incident wouldn't be deemed out of nature for a future killer, she showed signs of selfishness, hypocrisy, laziness and at times hostility. Yes she didn't come across as a murderer & a villainous character at first but then again, who does? Same thing with The Governor, he didn't start out as a murderous character, he wasn't a bad guy but then he evolved into an evil bastard because he realized he can get away with it, same with Lilly but then again she didn't come across as a good person but more of a bitch.
In the 3 episodes she was in, she showed no signs of heroic, appreciative or a caring behavior, First Episode she did nothing through out the whole episode, when you first meet her, she goes off in a fit of rage because one of her group members wouldn't let a group that consists of two children to die, Second Episode, she's mostly on her ass and at times acts childish, she gives you attitude if you don't agree with her and then makes you out to be a prick and lastly the Third Episode well again, she's mostly on her ass, being unreasonable, using the traitor excuse to kill someone she doesn't like and screws you over by snitching to everybody about your past to take some heat off herself(yeah I can tell she really cares and appreciated all the help and support you've shown her). She's the same in all 3 episodes.
Kenny, Ben & Lee redeemed themselves because they did wrong in the past and they knew & regretted it, Lilly on the other hand thinks she didn't do anything bad and showed no signs of regret therefore redemption is out of the picture with her.
People talk about Lilly fans making excuses for Lilly and forgiving her for everything. What about Kenny fans? They will excuse Kenny disregarding all you have done for him in previous episodes because you put his family and him at risk in the meat locker if you help Lilly.
I'm not a fan with either of the two character but I rather prefer Kenny over Lilly.
This is how it goes with the two:
You be a dick to Kenny, he's a dick to you
You be a nice to Kenny, he's a nice to you
with Lilly:
You be a dick to her, she's a selfish bitch to you
You be a nice to her, she's still a selfish bitch to you
Kenny did things at times that pissed me off but Lilly did worse.
Even though Larry doesn't like Lee he will still save him when the walker is on him in ep2 for the good of the group, if Kenny dislikes Lee he will leave him to die at the hand of Danny in ep 2 and again in ep 3 at the hands of the walkers in spite of what Lee did for his family and him over the last 3 months. In those cases Kenny's actions are worse than Lilly because he knew what he was doing and left you for dead on purpose (he had not lost his mind or his temper), the only difference is Lee survived but Kenny had bad intentions Lilly acted in the heat of the moment and lost her head, an act that was not consistent of her character, whereas Kenny will leave you to die twice in a week. At least in the scenario when Lilly refuses to take the shot when Lee is struggling with Andy it is understandable because Lee restrained her so Kenny could throw the salt lick on her dad. Given the scenarios stated above, If Kenny can get redemption and be forgiven I don’t see why Lilly can’t if she was in season 2.
Larry was a prick that tried to kill you in the first episode if you don't remember. I doubt he was going to let you die in front of witnesses. Kenny didn't help Lee twice but Lilly also did the same but with the whole group, at least Kenny stuck by you till the end and redeemed himself, where was Lilly?
You keep bringing up Lilly's mind, temper, head and her acting in the heat of the moment after her dads death but tell me, why didn't Kenny lose his head, mind, temper, why didn't he kill Lee(who he doesn't like), Ben, Christa, Omid or Molly after his family's death, why didn't he act in the heat of the moment?
Have you forgot that Kenny was a good guy in the first episode, offers you a ride, saves your life(no matter what choices you make with him), made decisions to help save Larry. The points I already gave, Kenny knew what he did was bad and made amends for it, Lilly didn't think what she did was bad and made a quick getaway to avoid the consequences. Compare the two, Lilly's crime was worse, she killed someone unprovoked, with no reason, Kenny at least had a reason to do what he did to Larry. Kenny's a saint compared to her.
I see no redemption with her, she has the same amount of chance at redemption as The Governor. Lee knew what he did was bad and stayed & faced the consequences, Lilly didn't care what she did and took an easy way out, a way out that put her group at risk.
I wouldn't call it uncharacteristic considering what she did before that incident wouldn't be deemed out of nature for a future killer, she showed signs of selfishness, hypocrisy, laziness and at times hostility. Yes she didn't come across as a murderer & a villainous character at first but then again, who does? Same thing with The Governor, he didn't start out as a murderous character, he wasn't a bad guy but then he evolved into an evil bastard because he realized he can get away with it, same with Lilly but then again she didn't come across as a good person but more of a bitch.
In the 3 episodes she was in, she showed no signs of heroic, appreciative or a caring behavior, First Episode she did nothing through out the whole episode, when you first meet her, she goes off in a fit of rage because one of her group members wouldn't let a group that consists of two children to die, Second Episode, she's mostly on her ass and at times acts childish, she gives you attitude if you don't agree with her and then makes you out to be a prick and lastly the Third Episode well again, she's mostly on her ass, being unreasonable, using the traitor excuse to kill someone she doesn't like and screws you over by snitching to everybody about your past to take some heat off herself(yeah I can tell she really cares and appreciated all the help and support you've shown her). She's the same in all 3 episodes.
I wouldn't go that far. She tries to calm down Larry during the drugstore argument, albeit ineffectively, and she clearly appreciates Lee's help in getting Larry's pills. As for the "giving you attitude if you don't agree with her", the flipside is that she obviously appreciates it if you do agree. Not to mention she can save your life twice, and invariably saves the group from bandits in ep 3. It was low of her for outing Lee as a murderer, but I was far more pissed off when Kenny berated me in front of the group for mercy killing an innocent women instead of leaving her to die an extremely slow, painful death.
Kenny, Ben & Lee redeemed themselves because they did wrong in the past and they knew & regretted it, Lilly on the other hand thinks she didn't do anything bad and showed no signs of regret therefore redemption is out of the picture with her.
Cant disagree with you there, though she does show remorse over Doug's death. I wouldn't say that Ben ever redeemed himself though.
I'm not a fan with either of the two character but I rather prefer Kenny over Lilly.
This is how it goes with the two:
You be a dick to Kenny, he's a dick to you
You be a nice to Kenny, he's a nice to you
with Lilly:
You be a dick to her, she's a selfish bitch to you
You be a nice to her, she's still a selfish bitch to you
Kenny did things at times that pissed me off but Lilly did worse.
Larry was a prick that tried to kill you in the first episode if you don't remember. I doubt he was going to let you die in front of witnesses. Kenny didn't help Lee twice but Lilly also did the same but with the whole group, at least Kenny stuck by you till the end and redeemed himself, where was Lilly?
Ugh, I dislike both of them. Also, Kenny never redeemed himself in my eyes. He either dies by making an extremely stupid mistake (Christa), or tries to act like some big hero so he can self-justify a selfish suicide (Ben).
You keep bringing up Lilly's mind, temper, head and her acting in the heat of the moment after her dads death but tell me, why didn't Kenny lose his head, mind, temper, why didn't he kill Lee(who he doesn't like), Ben, Christa, Omid or Molly after his family's death, why didn't he act in the heat of the moment?.
Er...obviously because Lilly's dad was killed by trusted group members while Kenny had absolutely no one to blame for Duck and Katjaa's death? Absolutely no surprise that Lilly started to mistrust her group while Kenny didn't.
Have you forgot that Kenny was a good guy in the first episode, offers you a ride, saves your life(no matter what choices you make with him), made decisions to help save Larry. The points I already gave, Kenny knew what he did was bad and made amends for it, Lilly didn't think what she did was bad and made a quick getaway to avoid the consequences. Compare the two, Lilly's crime was worse, she killed someone unprovoked, with no reason, Kenny at least had a reason to do what he did to Larry. Kenny's a saint compared to her.
Kenny never expresses any remorse for crushing Larry's head and ruining Lilly's family. Anyways, point is that they're both pricks.:D
I wouldn't mind her return, but she probably won't be in season 2 seeing as Shel shares her model. I doubt Telltale would include 2 characters that look exactly the same in the same season.
If i had a option i did kill Lilly there and then when she shot Carley.So i left her there..killing anyone over a petty argument or out of senseless rage is not acceptable to me be it a child or an adult.
Killing them was the plan. They had a gun to Clem's head I don't imagine any player intended for them to walk away from that if the option was available. They took Joleen's daughter, who's to say they wouldn't have attempted to take Clem and rape the women. Them leaving alive was never really an option. Lee was just trying to pacify them as a distraction so Lilly could take them out. He knew how dangerous and sick they were. He saw the video footage. That scene would definitely be on a montage reel for "Lilly's best bits." Right up there with her saving Lee from Danny and saving Lee from Andy with her weapon of choice.
Thank you finally someone agrees with me that the only choice you basically had was to kill them that was it
I wouldn't go that far. She tries to calm down Larry during the drugstore argument, albeit ineffectively, and she clearly appreciates Lee's help in getting Larry's pills. As for the "giving you attitude if you don't agree with her", the flipside is that she obviously appreciates it if you do agree. Not to mention she can save your life twice, and invariably saves the group from bandits in ep 3. It was low of her for outing Lee as a murderer, but I was far more pissed off when Kenny berated me in front of the group for mercy killing an innocent women instead of leaving her to die an extremely slow, painful death.
She didn't do enough to try and calm him down, she basically stood there and let her dad run his mouth and afterwards, she gives you attitude as if it was your fault, why I say this, when you talk to her, she tells you she didn't appreciate the violence with that angry look of hers, she's asking a lot from strangers to stand there and say nothing while her dad threatens the life of a child. She does show appreciation when you save her dad but how does she repay you, by stabbing you in the back.
She comes across as a bitch if you don't agree with her. You don't give her dad food, she calls you cold, really, he constantly bullies people and tried to kill you and she gives you the option to give anybody of your own choice a piece of food and then acts like you owe her dad something. She doesn't care that he's a murderous prick, if she wanted to give him food, she should've did so herself instead of expecting someone else he treats like garbage to do so and getting mad later on.
I'm aware she saves your life twice but that's depending on the choice, will she save your life no matter what? And the bandit shootout was reckless, if the Bandits were smart, they would've killed the whole group after the first shot. Besides, they were about to give in to the deal which would give you time to make a get away with the supplies if she hadn't took that shot.
And you're angry at Kenny for berating you in front of the group for mercy killing an innocent women. Lilly did the same, she berated Carley & Glenn for saving Lee's group and she also berated Lee for saving Ben. Where's the anger for her? Kenny was a dick for doing that but I can't rule out the fact that Lilly did the same thing also.
Cant disagree with you there, though she does show remorse over Doug's death. I wouldn't say that Ben ever redeemed himself though.
Her reaction to Doug was more like "Shit I shot the wrong person", I don't think she'll beat herself up over killing the wrong person, as I said before, she was probably faking it as her facial expressions changes to "I don't give a rats ass what I did" when she steals the RV. Ben in a way redeems himself, he gave Lee his permission to drop him so he can save himself, would Lilly do that? Judging by the way she stays behind so others do her work & stealing the RV shows she watches out for herself.
Ugh, I dislike both of them. Also, Kenny never redeemed himself in my eyes. He either dies by making an extremely stupid mistake (Christa), or tries to act like some big hero so he can self-justify a selfish suicide (Ben).
You don't consider him saving a woman he just met or helping put a scared teenager out of his misery which results in him being devoured in both cases a redeemable act?
Er...obviously because Lilly's dad was killed by trusted group members while Kenny had absolutely no one to blame for Duck and Katjaa's death? Absolutely no surprise that Lilly started to mistrust her group while Kenny didn't.
No one to blame?
What about Ben, he made the deal and hid it from everybody that resulted in Duck & Katjaa's death, Kenny found out the same day it happened, he wanted to beat up Ben but doesn't kill him, he doesn't kill Lee or anybody else if they give him an attitude, he still doesn't kill Ben for his outbursts later on. BTW, Lilly is not the only character that lost someone, other characters have but if they can refrain themselves from killing people because they were talked down to then what was Lilly's excuse? Only Weak Cowards would do what she did.
Kenny never expresses any remorse for crushing Larry's head and ruining Lilly's family. Anyways, point is that they're both pricks.
He looked traumatized when he smashed his head in, he even said sorry, I'm not saying it makes it better and yes he did traumatize Lilly but the actions Lilly commits later is her own doing.
I wouldn't mind her return, but she probably won't be in season 2 seeing as Shel shares her model. I doubt Telltale would include 2 characters that look exactly the same in the same season.
Well gamers are going to need some closure on Lilly's treachery, more now after seeing Carley's corpse in 400 Days. If Telltale can fit in the Cancer Patients in 400 Days, I'm sure they'll come up with some idea of how to fit Lilly in Season 2.
Comments
Oh lord, that made me laugh for some reason.
I prefer Lilly over Kenny but if she came anywhere near Clem...
It's not like she left Clementine on her own. She left the whole group. But why did she leave the whole group? Probably because she thought it would be a case of her or them and she wanted to live. She was restrained on the RV, her mental health had deteriorated, she was becoming more and more paranoid and distrusting of others. It is not a stretch that she thought they were going to vote to kill her or abandon her so she left them before they left her. Who amongst us wouldn’t have done the same in that situation? It’s an apocalypse. Wyatt drove off and left his friend behind and if he leaves the car his friend abandons him. They both probably felt like shit afterwards and will both probably try to redeem themselves. Why should Lilly be different? I imagine she too felt guilty about taking the RV and if she is in season 2 that guilt will probably be shown. Lilly had a good caring relationship with Clem before her break down, Clem even references her care towards her on the train to Savannah.
Lilly killing Clem is probably not the best scenario for testing the lengths people would go to in forgiving Lilly because no character would be forgiven for killing Clementine, not even Lee. That scenario is as hypothetical as you can get. That wouldn’t even be the character that Lilly fans grew attached to but for the sake of the thread I’ll answer it. If Lilly or any other character in the game killed Clem I would be pissed. She's an innocent little girl. The question I pose to you, which is far more realistic and likely if Lilly was intended to be in season 2 is; would you or any Lilly haters forgive her if she saved Clem? I know my feelings towards Ben would have changed tremendously had he of done so before he died.
Regarding the misconception of how Lilly fans see her, I’m sure we all acknowledge her crime, I certainly do but I also think that what she did was in the heat of the moment and she regretted or will go on to regret what she did, much like when Lee killed the Senator in the heat of the moment and went on to be haunted with nightmares and regret his actions. I’m not saying Lee and Lilly are the same or that their actions were the same I’m saying that neither were in their right minds when they did what they did. We forgive Lee because of the character he becomes. We judge him not on his past but on his present behaviour. I can't help but think that if Lilly was in season 2 she would redeem herself. Time will tell.
Randall in twd tv series was about Ben's age and they were gonna kill him. Ben had hair on his chin and most likely his balls, probably engaged in sex and drank beers with his friends before the apocalypse. He had a greater understanding of right and wrong than Clem who was half his age. He knew what he was doing was wrong hence why he hid the evidence. He stole and lied and probably wasn't looked upon as a child by Lilly. Think of the responsibility she gave him in Kenny and Lee's absence. He was responsible for the camp and would have been, at times, when everyone was sleeping. If he was Clem’s age I doubt Lilly would have wanted to shoot him. She probably would have shouted and screamed at him, maybe give him a slap.
I wouldn't say Ben was a child I would say he was a young man or as we say in the UK an adolescent. The stage between childhood and adulthood. He would be old enough to be arrested and incarcerated for committing crime.
Lee's past is always being brought up to be compared to Lilly's action. Difference between the two is that Lee had a reason while Lilly didn't. Lee killed the senator in a fight by accident who was sleeping with his wife which would be classed as manslaughter and he showed regret while Lilly committed cold blooded murder on someone who did nothing to her and showed no regret. Even in the "heat of the moment", Lee took it out there and then on the person who caused him pain though I believe he wouldn't have thought of killing that person, Lilly had one week to recuperate and took it out on the wrong person, even as going far as murdering that person. We got no choice but to forgive Lee(or not) because we are him, we got no other choice but to play as him and keep him alive to progress through the story, yeah he killed before but that does not mean other people should do it just for the heck of it?, two wrongs don't make a right, should Clem kill innocent people because Lilly did so herself? No, nobody has the right to kill a person just because you suffered a tragic loss that the person you target had nothing to do with it or you simply don't like the person for some unknown reason and that is what Lilly did.
If Ben admitted it on the spot I don't even think she would have wasted the bullet. I think she would have kicked him out of the RV. I think she was initially using scare tactics to break him into confessing but she grew flustered, frustrated and lost her head momentarily. She looked shocked afterwards just like how Kenny looked after he lost his head and smashed in Larry's skull. Heat of the moment, knee jerk reactions. In her right mind she’s quite tactical. She didn’t run out guns blazing when the bandits held the group hostage. She took a minute, made a rescue plan, took up her position and saved the hostages when Lee distracted them.
I agree with you that it was wrong for Lilly to kill Carly, et al. I'm saying that if she was in season 2 she would probably redeem herself. The comparison I make with Lee and Lilly is that neither of them where in their right minds. Prior to both events they would probably not have imagined themselves doing what they did and may have looked back on it as uncharacteristic. I certainly did. The reason most people are forgiving regarding Lilly is because it is so uncharacteristic. She wasn't an evil killer throughout the series or an out and out villainous character. She was at times heroic, appreciative, caring, etc. That is why that incident is considered and referred to as the downhill spiral of Lilly. She wasn't like that before. We see how she got there. Some of us sympathise after that scene on the road because that is not the Lilly we knew and are hopeful she will get her redemption and regain hero status.
Even though Larry doesn't like Lee he will still save him when the walker is on him in ep2 for the good of the group, if Kenny dislikes Lee he will leave him to die at the hand of Danny in ep 2 and again in ep 3 at the hands of the walkers in spite of what Lee did for his family and him over the last 3 months. In those cases Kenny's actions are worse than Lilly because he knew what he was doing and left you for dead on purpose (he had not lost his mind or his temper), the only difference is Lee survived but Kenny had bad intentions Lilly acted in the heat of the moment and lost her head, an act that was not consistent of her character, whereas Kenny will leave you to die twice in a week. At least in the scenario when Lilly refuses to take the shot when Lee is struggling with Andy it is understandable because Lee restrained her so Kenny could throw the salt lick on her dad. Given the scenarios stated above, If Kenny can get redemption and be forgiven I don’t see why Lilly can’t if she was in season 2.
I have played many scenarios in the game and I never heard Lilly say she should have killed Lee and Kenny instead of Carly. I give you the benefit of the doubt but I would say that she could very easily have killed Lee when he was getting the pencil on the RV since his back was turned to her and she got free of the ropes. So even if she said that it was out of anger and she wouldn’t have really done it. She proved that by not doing it even after being tied up.
It's doubtful that there was any way out of the situation without killing the bandits. Even if you get the leader to calm down, the other bandits disagree a say "they don't want no hash" or to make another deal with the group. Besides, even if they convinced the bandits to strike another deal with them, the bandits would guess that Lee's group would want to escape now that their deal with Ben was no longer secret, and wouldn't risk giving them an opportunity to escape. The reason the bandits didn't have some kind of armed guard to prevent the group from leaving was since the group didn't know of the bandits and had no reason to leave after all.
Lilly gives the line about killing Lee if you sided with Kenny in the meat locker. Of course, she leaves you even if you sides with her:D. Though to be fair, she was obviously nuts and overly paranoid at the time, and probably thought if Lee agreed to go with her it was just some plot to prevent her escape or something. By then, she'd decided everyone was against her.
Also, leaving you to die multiple times without any remorse isn't much better than killing close friends in my book. Not that Lilly's a saint, but I really dislike both her and Kenny. Even after Kenny got his "redemption", which was really just a flimsy way to self-justify a pointless suicide.
No, obviously.:)
I see no redemption with her, she has the same amount of chance at redemption as The Governor. Lee knew what he did was bad and stayed & faced the consequences, Lilly didn't care what she did and took an easy way out, a way out that put her group at risk.
I wouldn't call it uncharacteristic considering what she did before that incident wouldn't be deemed out of nature for a future killer, she showed signs of selfishness, hypocrisy, laziness and at times hostility. Yes she didn't come across as a murderer & a villainous character at first but then again, who does? Same thing with The Governor, he didn't start out as a murderous character, he wasn't a bad guy but then he evolved into an evil bastard because he realized he can get away with it, same with Lilly but then again she didn't come across as a good person but more of a bitch.
In the 3 episodes she was in, she showed no signs of heroic, appreciative or a caring behavior, First Episode she did nothing through out the whole episode, when you first meet her, she goes off in a fit of rage because one of her group members wouldn't let a group that consists of two children to die, Second Episode, she's mostly on her ass and at times acts childish, she gives you attitude if you don't agree with her and then makes you out to be a prick and lastly the Third Episode well again, she's mostly on her ass, being unreasonable, using the traitor excuse to kill someone she doesn't like and screws you over by snitching to everybody about your past to take some heat off herself(yeah I can tell she really cares and appreciated all the help and support you've shown her). She's the same in all 3 episodes.
Kenny, Ben & Lee redeemed themselves because they did wrong in the past and they knew & regretted it, Lilly on the other hand thinks she didn't do anything bad and showed no signs of regret therefore redemption is out of the picture with her.
I'm not a fan with either of the two character but I rather prefer Kenny over Lilly.
This is how it goes with the two:
You be a dick to Kenny, he's a dick to you
You be a nice to Kenny, he's a nice to you
with Lilly:
You be a dick to her, she's a selfish bitch to you
You be a nice to her, she's still a selfish bitch to you
Kenny did things at times that pissed me off but Lilly did worse.
Larry was a prick that tried to kill you in the first episode if you don't remember. I doubt he was going to let you die in front of witnesses. Kenny didn't help Lee twice but Lilly also did the same but with the whole group, at least Kenny stuck by you till the end and redeemed himself, where was Lilly?
You keep bringing up Lilly's mind, temper, head and her acting in the heat of the moment after her dads death but tell me, why didn't Kenny lose his head, mind, temper, why didn't he kill Lee(who he doesn't like), Ben, Christa, Omid or Molly after his family's death, why didn't he act in the heat of the moment?
Have you forgot that Kenny was a good guy in the first episode, offers you a ride, saves your life(no matter what choices you make with him), made decisions to help save Larry. The points I already gave, Kenny knew what he did was bad and made amends for it, Lilly didn't think what she did was bad and made a quick getaway to avoid the consequences. Compare the two, Lilly's crime was worse, she killed someone unprovoked, with no reason, Kenny at least had a reason to do what he did to Larry. Kenny's a saint compared to her.
I wouldn't go that far. She tries to calm down Larry during the drugstore argument, albeit ineffectively, and she clearly appreciates Lee's help in getting Larry's pills. As for the "giving you attitude if you don't agree with her", the flipside is that she obviously appreciates it if you do agree. Not to mention she can save your life twice, and invariably saves the group from bandits in ep 3. It was low of her for outing Lee as a murderer, but I was far more pissed off when Kenny berated me in front of the group for mercy killing an innocent women instead of leaving her to die an extremely slow, painful death.
Cant disagree with you there, though she does show remorse over Doug's death. I wouldn't say that Ben ever redeemed himself though.
Ugh, I dislike both of them. Also, Kenny never redeemed himself in my eyes. He either dies by making an extremely stupid mistake (Christa), or tries to act like some big hero so he can self-justify a selfish suicide (Ben).
Er...obviously because Lilly's dad was killed by trusted group members while Kenny had absolutely no one to blame for Duck and Katjaa's death? Absolutely no surprise that Lilly started to mistrust her group while Kenny didn't.
Kenny never expresses any remorse for crushing Larry's head and ruining Lilly's family. Anyways, point is that they're both pricks.:D
I wouldn't mind her return, but she probably won't be in season 2 seeing as Shel shares her model. I doubt Telltale would include 2 characters that look exactly the same in the same season.
There, fixed
Thank you finally someone agrees with me that the only choice you basically had was to kill them that was it
She didn't do enough to try and calm him down, she basically stood there and let her dad run his mouth and afterwards, she gives you attitude as if it was your fault, why I say this, when you talk to her, she tells you she didn't appreciate the violence with that angry look of hers, she's asking a lot from strangers to stand there and say nothing while her dad threatens the life of a child. She does show appreciation when you save her dad but how does she repay you, by stabbing you in the back.
She comes across as a bitch if you don't agree with her. You don't give her dad food, she calls you cold, really, he constantly bullies people and tried to kill you and she gives you the option to give anybody of your own choice a piece of food and then acts like you owe her dad something. She doesn't care that he's a murderous prick, if she wanted to give him food, she should've did so herself instead of expecting someone else he treats like garbage to do so and getting mad later on.
I'm aware she saves your life twice but that's depending on the choice, will she save your life no matter what? And the bandit shootout was reckless, if the Bandits were smart, they would've killed the whole group after the first shot. Besides, they were about to give in to the deal which would give you time to make a get away with the supplies if she hadn't took that shot.
And you're angry at Kenny for berating you in front of the group for mercy killing an innocent women. Lilly did the same, she berated Carley & Glenn for saving Lee's group and she also berated Lee for saving Ben. Where's the anger for her? Kenny was a dick for doing that but I can't rule out the fact that Lilly did the same thing also.
Her reaction to Doug was more like "Shit I shot the wrong person", I don't think she'll beat herself up over killing the wrong person, as I said before, she was probably faking it as her facial expressions changes to "I don't give a rats ass what I did" when she steals the RV. Ben in a way redeems himself, he gave Lee his permission to drop him so he can save himself, would Lilly do that? Judging by the way she stays behind so others do her work & stealing the RV shows she watches out for herself.
You don't consider him saving a woman he just met or helping put a scared teenager out of his misery which results in him being devoured in both cases a redeemable act?
No one to blame?
What about Ben, he made the deal and hid it from everybody that resulted in Duck & Katjaa's death, Kenny found out the same day it happened, he wanted to beat up Ben but doesn't kill him, he doesn't kill Lee or anybody else if they give him an attitude, he still doesn't kill Ben for his outbursts later on. BTW, Lilly is not the only character that lost someone, other characters have but if they can refrain themselves from killing people because they were talked down to then what was Lilly's excuse? Only Weak Cowards would do what she did.
He looked traumatized when he smashed his head in, he even said sorry, I'm not saying it makes it better and yes he did traumatize Lilly but the actions Lilly commits later is her own doing.
Well gamers are going to need some closure on Lilly's treachery, more now after seeing Carley's corpse in 400 Days. If Telltale can fit in the Cancer Patients in 400 Days, I'm sure they'll come up with some idea of how to fit Lilly in Season 2.