I think the reason Lee dies even if you chop off his arm is because he cut his arm off too late.
*SPOILERS FOR COMIC*
Dale survives getting bitten in the comic because his leg is chopped off right after he gets bitten. In Lee's case, at least half an hour had passed since the bite, so the infection had probably already gotten to him. Kenny could possibly survive a bite if he amputated the limb right after he got bitten, though it is very dangerous with him being alone and all, having noone to tend to his wounds.
...his 'death' was kept so vague it would be weird for him not to be alive.
I really don't understand why people keep saying this. To me, there was nothing at all "vague" about Kenny's death. He was trapped in an alley, swarmed by walkers, and the only weapon he had was a gun with a single bullet in it. Heck, even Tyreese had a weapon. It was made very clear that Kenny was making a choice to die there. There was nothing vague about it.
Now they might still come up with some BS explanation for how Kenny might have survived in an effort to appeal to Kenny fans. But if they do that, they're essentially saying that choices in the game no longer have consequences. Which will make me immediately stop caring as much about what happens because who knows when they'll just throw in another deus ex machina to cheat their way out of the consequences of any particular character's decision?
now if kenny chopped the infected limb quickly he has more chance of surviving.
He still would have had to get away from the walkers that were attacking him first, and there was clearly no way out. And then he'd need to get his hands on something he could use to amputate (assuming he only got bitten on a limb that could be cut off). He didn't have any such blade on him at the time, and it's not like that's the sort of thing you just find lying around anywhere you look. And this would all need to happen within a matter of minutes, if not seconds.
I really don't understand why people keep saying this. To me, there was nothing at all "vague" about Kenny's death. He was trapped in an alley, swarmed by walkers, and the only weapon he had was a gun with a single bullet in it. Heck, even Tyreese had a weapon. It was made very clear that Kenny was making a choice to die there. There was nothing vague about it.
Now they might still come up with some BS explanation for how Kenny might have survived in an effort to appeal to Kenny fans. But if they do that, they're essentially saying that choices in the game no longer have consequences. Which will make me immediately stop caring as much about what happens because who knows when they'll just throw in another deus ex machina to cheat their way out of the consequences of any particular character's decision?
He still would have had to get away from the walkers that were attacking him first, and there was clearly no way out. And then he'd need to get his hands on something he could use to amputate (assuming he only got bitten on a limb that could be cut off). He didn't have any such blade on him at the time, and it's not like that's the sort of thing you just find lying around anywhere you look. And this would all need to happen within a matter of minutes, if not seconds.
You speak the sad truth. We all know the chances of Kenny's survival are extremely low, but we have hope.
In his own words: "You don't just end it cause it's hard. You stick it out, and you help the folks you care about."
Don't give up on him just because there are overwhelming odds against his survival. If anyone could have gotten out of that situation, it was Kenny.
there's also another factor if the walkers only bit him on one limb but then proceeded to eat that limb and broke it off kenny in theory would only need a tournique to stem the bleeding.
also if he kept on attacking the walkers he would be covered in their remains like lee was.
and thus walk through them.
it is also logical to assume that store room had an exit/entrance for the walkers to get inside so kenny could of used that, using the pistol and a make shift melee weapon.
it's conjucture.
to say we explore his fate would imply another character new 'explores the area' or old returns to the area looking for something/someone or supplies and they pick up kenny's trail and follow it we then find out 'his fate' which i'm gonna go with he's dead/walker.
or it's merely the classic ttg use of words.
it could mean he is doing a 'merle' lost a limb but got patched up and is working for someone, or he could be the guy on the radio who is with tavia (kinda sounds like him/mr harmon)
Could have hid under a dead walker body while they ate Ben then made a break for it when there is an opening and in the Christa Ending it's way more likely that he survived
That's fine, but it's not really a good reason to bring a character back. A lot of people wanted them to bring Carley back too, despite the fact that she was obviously dead. Part of me kind of wanted to see her again too because she was such a likeable character. But that bias aside, I recognized that it would have been a horrible move that would have completely ruined the dramatic weight of the story up to that point. And Telltale absolutely did the right thing putting the issue to rest by showing her body in 400 Days.
Kenny's death is much the same situation. Fans think they want him to survive because they like him as a character. I personally don't understand why, but that's not the point. They do. But if Telltale were to actually bring him back, it would ruin the story and cheapen the character that they love so much. There's simply no way that Kenny could have survived Episode 5 that wouldn't be a huge cop-out.
Sometimes you have to know when to ignore the fans and do what's right for the story.
I'm not sure how Kenny's possible survival could wreck the story, considering that Telltale actually went out of their way to leave his death on an uncertain note (right down to re-recording Gavin Hammon's dialogue). On the other hand, the people who kept insisting Carley/Doug was somehow alive were clearly grasping at straws, since she/he was shot through the head on-screen. You don't get any deader than that.
Now, on your second point about Kenny's return taking away the "dramatic weight" of the character: I disagree. Ripley's story was basically over by the end of ALIEN, but James Cameron found new and exciting ways to evolve Ripley in the sequel. Or, if you want an example of a character who was actually killed, Spock was dead as a doornail before WRATH OF KHAN's end credits rolled. However, you won't meet a lot of Trekkies who will tell you his resurrection in the next movie destroyed the power of his death scene. Granted, STAR TREK is science fiction whereas WALKING DEAD is horror/drama, but keep in mind this was a case where the character died on-screen, like Carley/Doug. Kenny's survival is unlikely, but not impossible, and wouldn't wreck the reality that WALKING DEAD has established up till now. Hell, Lee fought his way through a mob of walkers (even while missing an arm in one scenario), and depending on how quickly you have him attack, he doesn't get bit once.
At any rate, Telltale has pretty much confirmed his survival/death/walkerhood will be revealed one way or another in Season 2, so we'll see who made the right call on this one.
yeah wouldn't it be funny if you where kenny's bro he lives and if he hated your ass he's a walker? would also silence some of the 'season 1 choices did nothing ttg lied team'
I'm not sure how Kenny's possible survival could wreck the story, considering that Telltale actually went out of their way to leave his death on an uncertain note (right down to re-recording Gavin Hammon's dialogue). On the other hand, the people who kept insisting Carley/Doug was somehow alive were clearly grasping at straws, since she/he was shot through the head on-screen. You don't get any deader than that.
But maybe the shot that hit Carley wasn't fatal! Maybe it just grazed her!
Sorry, but I don't see much of a difference between that argument and this one. The only reason Kenny fans see this as making sense whereas Carley fans were "grasping at straws" is because they want it to be true. Really, they're both grasping at straws.
Kenny's death isn't exactly what I would describe as "going out of their way to leave it uncertain." Again, there's nothing vague about it. One moment, Kenny is fighting them off. The next, there's nothing there but walkers. We hear him struggling for a few seconds and then nothing. Any interpretation of that other than Kenny being walker food would be a stretch of unimaginable proportions. You might as well say, "Well, maybe Ben survived too. He could have pulled the bar he landed on right out of his gaping stomach wound and started killing walkers with it."
Anyway, the reason I say it would ruin the dramatic weight of the story has more to do with proper story structure than any theory about how he might have survived. Telltale has some good writers, and I'm sure they could easily come up with some excuse to explain away Kenny's survival. But that's not the point. As I pointed out before, that scene is the heroic sacrifice. It's Kenny's redemption for all the awful things he'd done in the first season. And again, a heroic sacrifice typically involves some sacrifice. Kenny had plenty of opportunity to avoid death. But he made a choice. He said, "No, I'm going to stay here and fight, even though it means my death." If he can just kill all the zombies and walk away fine, it negates the whole point of forcing him to make that choice. Essentially, nothing interesting has happened. No price has been paid. No sacrifice required. Kenny just ends up getting everything he wanted out of the situation without losing anything and goes right on back to the status quo.
And again, it damages the audience's ability to buy in to the story if choices don't have consequences. If Kenny survives, then it's basically the writers' way of saying, "Don't worry too much about all these dramatic hard decisions we're hitting the characters with because no matter what happens, we'll just wave our magic writers' wand to set things back the way we want." Why should we continue to care what happens to these characters if their choices don't have any consequences? If they're just thrown a convenient deus ex machina to bail them out whenever things get rough?
Or, if you want an example of a character who was actually killed, Spock was dead as a doornail before WRATH OF KHAN's end credits rolled. However, you won't meet a lot of Trekkies who will tell you his resurrection in the next movie destroyed the power of his death scene.
Two points I would make about that comparison. First, while I actually do think that Spock's resurrection was a bit of a cop-out, it still worked because it didn't negate the element of sacrifice that Spock made in Wrath of Khan. Wrath of Khan was all about Kirk being taught humility. He never faced death with the Kobayashi Maru test, he had cheated death. Khan was a villain that taught him that some victories demand sacrifice, and Spock paid that price for him with his life. In Search for Spock, Kirk brings Spock back, but he loses both his son and the Enterprise to do it. Spock returns, but a high price is still paid for Kirk's victory. It's not as simple as Kirk goes and gets Spock back and ends up with everything he wanted.
Second, as you've noted, Star Trek is a very different type of story than The Walking Dead. One of the things that makes The Walking Dead different from other comics is that Kirkman actually sticks by the consequences of the characters' actions. There's no resetting everything back to "normal" after a certain number of issues. If a character dies, that's it. They're dead. It's not like superhero comics where death is about as consequential as having a bad cold. And if they break that rule even once, it ruins the tone of the whole universe they've created. Even Tyreese surviving a room full of walkers felt like they were pushing it a little too far. And I find Tyreese's survival to be far, far more believable than Kenny surviving.
And the game is all about making tough decisions. Which doesn't work unless you're willing to follow through on the consequences of those decisions.
bottom line here is carley was confirmed dead. so logically we'll see kenny dead too..
if kenny lives he must have some injury to make it believable either a bite like lee or some scratches that won't immediately become fatal and maybe he loses his hat too.
I do agree, I think listing the search for Spock, was a bad choice, but I do see a large difference between Carley and Kenny, with Carley she gets shot in the head, done. With Kenny there is no death sound, you never see him die, no one sees him die at all, the credits only say lost, which could mean dead or not, while all the others say they are dead. That and Gavin Hammon once said not to give up hope for Kenny and even said that Telltale took out the sounds of him dying to make it ambiguous, all this comes together to make it seem there is a small chance he is alive, if he is dead then I won't stop playing, I will be depressed but I would keep going.
Don't hope for too much, you'll be disappointed. We'll be lucky if he's back as a zombie. Plus he can shoot himself if you gave him the bullets you spared.
You are right, I more then likely have way to much optimism, if they bring him back I think Telltale would put in some kind of catch, like he was bit, or something that somehow makes a very happy moment less happy.
First of all, most of you are right: There's no point arguing over this. Keep it civil. Thank you.
Second, on the one hand, death is very very certain in The Walking Dead. On the other hand, there is at least one situation in the comics where a character pretty much faces an equally hopeless fate than Kenny did - and survived, miraculously. So if Kenny came back, you could still say it somehow fit the franchise (which absolutely does not apply to any OTHER character who died in Season 1). I'd rather expect that 'confirmation of his fate' is more of a Chuck thing...
I hope your right Vainamoinen, but anything is possible, and if Kenny is alive then his life is going to suck the moment he finds out Lee is dead, and he would more then likely die for real at a point, maybe even in season 2, and if that death is worse then this 'death' this I would almost prefer him to be dead here, but just the thought of seeing Kenny alive along with amazing Telltale happy music is almost enough to bring tears of joy to my eyes, so I guess that is what I think of it now, still want him back.
True, he would have something, I just wonder how he would take the whole Lee is dead, I mean he knew he was going to die, I just how would react to just seeing Clementine, Christa and Omid.
First of all, most of you are right: There's no point arguing over this. Keep it civil. Thank you.
Second, on the one hand, death is very very certain in The Walking Dead. On the other hand, there is at least one situation in the comics where a character pretty much faces an equally hopeless fate than Kenny did - and survived, miraculously. So if Kenny came back, you could still say it somehow fit the franchise (which absolutely does not apply to any OTHER character who died in Season 1). I'd rather expect that 'confirmation of his fate' is more of a Chuck thing...
I desperately want Kenny to live, but I can also accept that Telltale has just as much right to pull a Chuck on him. ("Exploring Kenny's fate" could mean any number of things.) What I personally can't agree with is magodesky's opinion that Kenny's survival would wreck the credibility of the character and the franchise.
I agree, it could mean all we see of Kenny is a body, but it's the just way the phrased that, exploring Kenny's fate seems like a little bit more then see a body done.
I agree, it could mean all we see of Kenny is a body, but it's the just way the phrased that, exploring Kenny's fate seems like a little bit more then see a body done.
Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. Personally, I'll be very disappointed if Kenny's alive in Season 2 because his death in Episode 5 was a good ending to his character's arc and anything else would feel to me like a cheat. But hey, stranger things have happened, and I'm sure it would make plenty of Kenny fans happy.
Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. Personally, I'll be very disappointed if Kenny's alive in Season 2 because his death in Episode 5 was a good ending to his character's arc and anything else would feel to me like a cheat. But hey, stranger things have happened, and I'm sure it would make plenty of Kenny fans happy.
Kenny committed suicide. Had no reason to live - no family, no boat, Lee was dying. He wanted to die in that alley. Change of mind in last moment? I doubt it. He did good. Fans should be glad they didn't have to watch his death.
hey magodesky can you stop retconning the thread please ?
Okay, well, I was saying let's move beyond the Kenny debate. Soo... you brought it up again to scold me for bringing it up again?
Anyway, there doesn't seem to be a lot of solid information. Is there any other news coming out of Comic-Con worth discussing besides what "the fate of Kenny" might entail? Thoughts on the image of Clem perhaps? I'm not sure it's worth speculating on until we actually see the image. I'm hoping they'll release it online for the rest of us some time this week. The article says it shows Clem with another child. Could it be Becca perhaps?
What if there's a really emotional destroying scene for kenny fans? I.E you find Kenny dead againts a wall wherever he died, and you have to collect his empty gun cause all yo have is an ammo clip, however, whatever arm is holding the gun in, is trapped under something, a pipe wedged in a wall or something, and you have to pry it out from his hands, he becomes a walker, tearing off his arm and attacks you....
You are right, I more then likely have way to much optimism, if they bring him back I think Telltale would put in some kind of catch, like he was bit, or something that somehow makes a very happy moment less happy.
I agree that he is either dead or alive with a catch. And when he was in the ally you heard a shot ( him probably shooting Ben) but where would he go?
And if Ben is dead he is stuck in a house with about 10 zombies and we heard him holler so he must of at least got bitten.
Okay, well, I was saying let's move beyond the Kenny debate. Soo... you brought it up again to scold me for bringing it up again?
Anyway, there doesn't seem to be a lot of solid information. Is there any other news coming out of Comic-Con worth discussing besides what "the fate of Kenny" might entail? Thoughts on the image of Clem perhaps? I'm not sure it's worth speculating on until we actually see the image. I'm hoping they'll release it online for the rest of us some time this week. The article says it shows Clem with another child. Could it be Becca perhaps?
it's was only cos you seem to be saying the same stuff over and over.
Comments
yeah pretty much what i thought
I really don't understand why people keep saying this. To me, there was nothing at all "vague" about Kenny's death. He was trapped in an alley, swarmed by walkers, and the only weapon he had was a gun with a single bullet in it. Heck, even Tyreese had a weapon. It was made very clear that Kenny was making a choice to die there. There was nothing vague about it.
Now they might still come up with some BS explanation for how Kenny might have survived in an effort to appeal to Kenny fans. But if they do that, they're essentially saying that choices in the game no longer have consequences. Which will make me immediately stop caring as much about what happens because who knows when they'll just throw in another deus ex machina to cheat their way out of the consequences of any particular character's decision?
He still would have had to get away from the walkers that were attacking him first, and there was clearly no way out. And then he'd need to get his hands on something he could use to amputate (assuming he only got bitten on a limb that could be cut off). He didn't have any such blade on him at the time, and it's not like that's the sort of thing you just find lying around anywhere you look. And this would all need to happen within a matter of minutes, if not seconds.
You speak the sad truth. We all know the chances of Kenny's survival are extremely low, but we have hope.
In his own words: "You don't just end it cause it's hard. You stick it out, and you help the folks you care about."
Don't give up on him just because there are overwhelming odds against his survival. If anyone could have gotten out of that situation, it was Kenny.
there's also another factor if the walkers only bit him on one limb but then proceeded to eat that limb and broke it off kenny in theory would only need a tournique to stem the bleeding.
also if he kept on attacking the walkers he would be covered in their remains like lee was.
and thus walk through them.
it is also logical to assume that store room had an exit/entrance for the walkers to get inside so kenny could of used that, using the pistol and a make shift melee weapon.
it's conjucture.
to say we explore his fate would imply another character new 'explores the area' or old returns to the area looking for something/someone or supplies and they pick up kenny's trail and follow it we then find out 'his fate' which i'm gonna go with he's dead/walker.
or it's merely the classic ttg use of words.
it could mean he is doing a 'merle' lost a limb but got patched up and is working for someone, or he could be the guy on the radio who is with tavia (kinda sounds like him/mr harmon)
I'm not sure how Kenny's possible survival could wreck the story, considering that Telltale actually went out of their way to leave his death on an uncertain note (right down to re-recording Gavin Hammon's dialogue). On the other hand, the people who kept insisting Carley/Doug was somehow alive were clearly grasping at straws, since she/he was shot through the head on-screen. You don't get any deader than that.
Now, on your second point about Kenny's return taking away the "dramatic weight" of the character: I disagree. Ripley's story was basically over by the end of ALIEN, but James Cameron found new and exciting ways to evolve Ripley in the sequel. Or, if you want an example of a character who was actually killed, Spock was dead as a doornail before WRATH OF KHAN's end credits rolled. However, you won't meet a lot of Trekkies who will tell you his resurrection in the next movie destroyed the power of his death scene. Granted, STAR TREK is science fiction whereas WALKING DEAD is horror/drama, but keep in mind this was a case where the character died on-screen, like Carley/Doug. Kenny's survival is unlikely, but not impossible, and wouldn't wreck the reality that WALKING DEAD has established up till now. Hell, Lee fought his way through a mob of walkers (even while missing an arm in one scenario), and depending on how quickly you have him attack, he doesn't get bit once.
At any rate, Telltale has pretty much confirmed his survival/death/walkerhood will be revealed one way or another in Season 2, so we'll see who made the right call on this one.
But maybe the shot that hit Carley wasn't fatal! Maybe it just grazed her!
Sorry, but I don't see much of a difference between that argument and this one. The only reason Kenny fans see this as making sense whereas Carley fans were "grasping at straws" is because they want it to be true. Really, they're both grasping at straws.
Kenny's death isn't exactly what I would describe as "going out of their way to leave it uncertain." Again, there's nothing vague about it. One moment, Kenny is fighting them off. The next, there's nothing there but walkers. We hear him struggling for a few seconds and then nothing. Any interpretation of that other than Kenny being walker food would be a stretch of unimaginable proportions. You might as well say, "Well, maybe Ben survived too. He could have pulled the bar he landed on right out of his gaping stomach wound and started killing walkers with it."
Anyway, the reason I say it would ruin the dramatic weight of the story has more to do with proper story structure than any theory about how he might have survived. Telltale has some good writers, and I'm sure they could easily come up with some excuse to explain away Kenny's survival. But that's not the point. As I pointed out before, that scene is the heroic sacrifice. It's Kenny's redemption for all the awful things he'd done in the first season. And again, a heroic sacrifice typically involves some sacrifice. Kenny had plenty of opportunity to avoid death. But he made a choice. He said, "No, I'm going to stay here and fight, even though it means my death." If he can just kill all the zombies and walk away fine, it negates the whole point of forcing him to make that choice. Essentially, nothing interesting has happened. No price has been paid. No sacrifice required. Kenny just ends up getting everything he wanted out of the situation without losing anything and goes right on back to the status quo.
And again, it damages the audience's ability to buy in to the story if choices don't have consequences. If Kenny survives, then it's basically the writers' way of saying, "Don't worry too much about all these dramatic hard decisions we're hitting the characters with because no matter what happens, we'll just wave our magic writers' wand to set things back the way we want." Why should we continue to care what happens to these characters if their choices don't have any consequences? If they're just thrown a convenient deus ex machina to bail them out whenever things get rough?
Two points I would make about that comparison. First, while I actually do think that Spock's resurrection was a bit of a cop-out, it still worked because it didn't negate the element of sacrifice that Spock made in Wrath of Khan. Wrath of Khan was all about Kirk being taught humility. He never faced death with the Kobayashi Maru test, he had cheated death. Khan was a villain that taught him that some victories demand sacrifice, and Spock paid that price for him with his life. In Search for Spock, Kirk brings Spock back, but he loses both his son and the Enterprise to do it. Spock returns, but a high price is still paid for Kirk's victory. It's not as simple as Kirk goes and gets Spock back and ends up with everything he wanted.
Second, as you've noted, Star Trek is a very different type of story than The Walking Dead. One of the things that makes The Walking Dead different from other comics is that Kirkman actually sticks by the consequences of the characters' actions. There's no resetting everything back to "normal" after a certain number of issues. If a character dies, that's it. They're dead. It's not like superhero comics where death is about as consequential as having a bad cold. And if they break that rule even once, it ruins the tone of the whole universe they've created. Even Tyreese surviving a room full of walkers felt like they were pushing it a little too far. And I find Tyreese's survival to be far, far more believable than Kenny surviving.
And the game is all about making tough decisions. Which doesn't work unless you're willing to follow through on the consequences of those decisions.
bottom line here is carley was confirmed dead. so logically we'll see kenny dead too..
if kenny lives he must have some injury to make it believable either a bite like lee or some scratches that won't immediately become fatal and maybe he loses his hat too.
Second, on the one hand, death is very very certain in The Walking Dead. On the other hand, there is at least one situation in the comics where a character pretty much faces an equally hopeless fate than Kenny did - and survived, miraculously. So if Kenny came back, you could still say it somehow fit the franchise (which absolutely does not apply to any OTHER character who died in Season 1). I'd rather expect that 'confirmation of his fate' is more of a Chuck thing...
I desperately want Kenny to live, but I can also accept that Telltale has just as much right to pull a Chuck on him. ("Exploring Kenny's fate" could mean any number of things.) What I personally can't agree with is magodesky's opinion that Kenny's survival would wreck the credibility of the character and the franchise.
well it says FATE. and fate normally means death.
he's a walker with bits missing..
Omg you just made me think that TT are gunna make him a walker.....
Kenny committed suicide. Had no reason to live - no family, no boat, Lee was dying. He wanted to die in that alley. Change of mind in last moment? I doubt it. He did good. Fans should be glad they didn't have to watch his death.
Okay, well, I was saying let's move beyond the Kenny debate. Soo... you brought it up again to scold me for bringing it up again?
Anyway, there doesn't seem to be a lot of solid information. Is there any other news coming out of Comic-Con worth discussing besides what "the fate of Kenny" might entail? Thoughts on the image of Clem perhaps? I'm not sure it's worth speculating on until we actually see the image. I'm hoping they'll release it online for the rest of us some time this week. The article says it shows Clem with another child. Could it be Becca perhaps?
On the subject of SDCC. SCREENSHOT PL0X
I agree that he is either dead or alive with a catch. And when he was in the ally you heard a shot ( him probably shooting Ben) but where would he go?
And if Ben is dead he is stuck in a house with about 10 zombies and we heard him holler so he must of at least got bitten.
Pray to the gods.
HECK YES!!!
it's was only cos you seem to be saying the same stuff over and over.