I think worrying about the realism of a video game is pointless.. Especially when talking about a zombie game.. I mean, if your going to argue about the realism of a character's actions, shouldnt you also argue the realism of zombies first?
I see alot of people who love nothing more than dissecting a movie or game to try to point out every tiny flaw or unrealstic moment that to me just spoils it.
I remember once as a kid watching the Making of Star Wars and saw how they made the space ship's fly.. Of course it was all special effects, but learning how it was done, really spoiled alot of the adventure and fantasy for me.
Many people come to The Walking Dead with a magnifying glass and try to pick it apart looking for anything that may not be perfect and try to argue the realism in a zombie game.
I think people would enjoy it more if they stopped worrying about every minor detail and just expirence the game for what it is.
I'm the same way! I even go as far as trying very hard to avoid seeing the faces of the people who voice act my favorite characters. I hope to never see who voice acts Clem, Lee, Kenny, and many others just because I would know it's all fake, not to say I don't already know it's all fake, but you know. Props to the actors though.
I think worrying about the realism of a video game is pointless.. Especially when talking about a zombie game.. I mean, if your going to argu… moree about the realism of a character's actions, shouldnt you also argue the realism of zombies first?
I see alot of people who love nothing more than dissecting a movie or game to try to point out every tiny flaw or unrealstic moment that to me just spoils it.
I remember once as a kid watching the Making of Star Wars and saw how they made the space ship's fly.. Of course it was all special effects, but learning how it was done, really spoiled alot of the adventure and fantasy for me.
Many people come to The Walking Dead with a magnifying glass and try to pick it apart looking for anything that may not be perfect and try to argue the realism in a zombie game.
I think people would enjoy it more if they stopped worrying about every minor detail and just expirence the game for what it is.
The fact that she outran and outfought a grown man, I mean she's a 11 year old girl. Like I said I am not complaining about it, but certainly … moreat times they give her smarts/ strengths I have never seen from an 11 yr old. I think that we see all these people die from zombie bites that are either being distracted or doing something stupid, and somehow Clem always finds a way to avoid it.
I agree with you two. Besides, she's not NINE anymore, she's eleven now. She's not that "little" anymore. She could be in 6th Grade or even 7th Grade by now. I knew some strong 6th and 7th Graders. Sure, most of them were male, but it's not like it's impossible or even improbable to have a fairly physically athletic female at 11 years of age.
I'm the same way! I even go as far as trying very hard to avoid seeing the faces of the people who voice act my favorite characters. I hope to… more never see who voice acts Clem, Lee, Kenny, and many others just because I would know it's all fake, not to say I don't already know it's all fake, but you know. Props to the actors though.
I agree with you two. Besides, she's not NINE anymore, she's eleven now. She's not that "little" anymore. She could be in 6th Grade or even 7t… moreh Grade by now. I knew some strong 6th and 7th Graders. Sure, most of them were male, but it's not like it's impossible or even improbable to have a fairly physically athletic female at 11 years of age.
actually the dog attacking Clem is realistic considering things like starvation, surviving for who knows how long (days, weeks, months, over a year?), and food aggression.
I guess you never thought of Lee as "black man" too right? You people kill me lol. You act as if you never saw different colors of black people light brown, brown, caramel, dark brown. Clementine skin is caramel not white. Anyway white or black is not ever a skin color. That's bs to confuse people about whos who. Why is that so hard to understand ? Is it you don't want to understand ?
Not being racist, I just never thought of Clementine as a "black kid."
To be honest, I've kind of gotten to the point that skin color isn't remotely the first thing I think about when I see someone or a character.
If it can happen then it's VERY rarely.
Dogs will snap or Growl when people get near their food.
But i guess if the dogs were to do that then their background would be messed up.
If it can happen then it's VERY rarely.
Dogs will snap or Growl when people get near their food.
But i guess if the dogs were to do that then their background would be messed up.
nah, Lee is black, but it doesn't really mean that much. It's just another factor in appearance like hair and eye color. It's a person's experiences and actions that define them, not how they look on the outside.
I guess you never thought of Lee as "black man" too right? You people kill me lol. You act as if you never saw different colors of black peop… morele light brown, brown, caramel, dark brown. Clementine skin is caramel not white. Anyway white or black is not ever a skin color. That's bs to confuse people about whos who. Why is that so hard to understand ? Is it you don't want to understand ?
nah, Lee is black, but it doesn't really mean that much. It's just another factor in appearance like hair and eye color. It's a person's experiences and actions that define them, not how they look on the outside.
We're all human.
We all have historical backgrounds. History is wonderful, and I love learning about all facets of history and seeing how various events connect to each other. What happens now can have a huge effect on something in the future across the world.
I don't exactly understand what you mean by your last two sentences. I'm not being crazy, and I'm assuming that you mean an black person played a role in the development of something I like? Yea, I'm sure of it. I'm guessing that almost all, if not all, races have played a development role in something that I like. I mean, for example, the Arabs played a huge role in the development of modern medicine. But that's human ingenuity at work. Every race has the potential to do amazing things, and sure, history is important, but just because the Arabs played a huge role in the development of medicine doesn't mean that your average Arab is going to make a good doctor.
Skin color isn't important. It's what you experience and do. Heritage is important in culture and beliefs, yes, and in certain cases our skills can be impacted by what our parents, grandparents, and lineage in general have done (if you take evolution as truth and us "evolving" to be more efficient at what we do), it doesn't mean much if you aren't trained to do the same thing.
She's very strong in tense situations. She carried/dragged lee out of the street and shut the steel door that neither her nor lee could lift after. She's the shehulk when she's scared.
Speaking of the Hulk, it would been cool if we had an option to tell Rebecca at the dinner table "Rebecca, please don't make me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry."
She's very strong in tense situations. She carried/dragged lee out of the street and shut the steel door that neither her nor lee could lift after. She's the shehulk when she's scared.
We all have historical backgrounds. History is wonderful, and I love learning about all facets of history and seeing how various events connec… moret to each other. What happens now can have a huge effect on something in the future across the world.
I don't exactly understand what you mean by your last two sentences. I'm not being crazy, and I'm assuming that you mean an black person played a role in the development of something I like? Yea, I'm sure of it. I'm guessing that almost all, if not all, races have played a development role in something that I like. I mean, for example, the Arabs played a huge role in the development of modern medicine. But that's human ingenuity at work. Every race has the potential to do amazing things, and sure, history is important, but just because the Arabs played a huge role in the development of medicine doesn't mean that your average Arab is going to make a good doctor.
Skin color isn't important. It's what yo… [view original content]
That's racism and bigotry based on stereotypes and thinking that a specific group of people are inferior to another.
In reality, it doesn't matter. Plus you think people are being racist when they really aren't, so I don't trust your definition of racism.
Racism is always going to exist because along with human ingenuity there is human irrationality. What you're essentially saying is that skin color matters because we let the irrational thoughts of others get the better of us. You make a bigger deal out of the color of someone's skin than you have to.
That's racism and bigotry based on stereotypes and thinking that a specific group of people are inferior to another.
In reality, it doesn't… more matter. Plus you think people are being racist when they really aren't, so I don't trust your definition of racism.
Racism is always going to exist because along with human ingenuity there is human irrationality. What you're essentially saying is that skin color matters because we let the irrational thoughts of others get the better of us. You make a bigger deal out of the color of someone's skin than you have to.
And the proclamation of racism where it obviously isn't present is about ignorance. "Clementine is black?" She could have been many things, yes she is black, but he didn't know that. You have turned his question into what you think is racism, when guess what, it's just a question. You choose to see racism just to point it out and make others "realize" they are being racist. Maybe you should "realize" everyone doesn't have such a depressing outlook on race like you do. But I'm sure I'm just being racist, right?
I thought the stitch up seen was enjoyable...but absurd. I mean, Clem STITCHES HERSELF UP PEOPLE! I also think it hilarious that, if you got the juice, you can take a swig of juice in between EVERY stitch up. Kind of like a parody of an action hero swigging his whiskey. I just picture Clem with a ride or die tattoo and a smoke dangling from her mouth. After shes finished stitching herself up, she takes down a walker with A RAKE GUYS!!! A freaking RAKE. I remember when I was 11, I was a bit short and weak and I had trouble handling a rake. Then AFTER all that, we can choose to have clem look at the camera, and say a ONE LINER! "Still.Not.bit." that was obviously put there by the writers. They knew this scene was a bit over the top. Also...why does clem still have her hat? She fell in a damn river and got carried away and then is still there...I mean...come one. Is it superglued? Also, how did clem carry Lee into that garage in season 1 with TONS of walkers around. NO! Don't say adrenaline, it is RIDICULOUS. It made NO sense. That's why even the writers cut it. I think the scene with Clem vs the guy chasing her was handled well, actually. But the stitch up scene, no way. Just...no way.
Good points. With apologies for the sheer length, I'll add my bit to this.
Primary motivation and purpose (secondary motivation involving the personal goals of new characters in a group aside) was I believe the biggest thing that needed to be addressed by Telltale when they decided to focus on Clementine for the second season. How what follows from here relates to that motivation will become clear towards the end, but I'll say I felt that they missed the mark by deciding to present her to us as having relatively solidified her personality (to whatever mould we immediately choose) rather than having us walk the road itself leading to such a point and working our own way up it, meaning that what I had strongly wanted to see with respect to her perspective of things and her conduct was inner conflict and the beginnings of possible change (accompanied with or without a perseverance of integrity, as the player chooses), and not a character-reset option in the form of a set of choices where every available line of action or dialogue comes naturally to her. To quote one reviewer: "The only real sin committed by All That Remains is that it's a first episode to the second season rather than a sixth episode to the first season." Fast forwarding was a detriment since the Clementine the conclusion of the first season had primarily motivated me to wish to re-encounter or to have a reason to want to in a new season whose expected appeal to me would have lain essentially in the promise of character development strengthened by close continuity was a Clementine now suffering the direct aftermath of a season's distressing ordeal and having to enter fully this new world now deprived of the protection of her guardian, ready to evolve further, prompted in a certain direction by his influence, and carrying in herself with her the painful effects of everything that had transpired. As you've said, the reactions of characters to her had they been realistic would have laid groundwork that could have further increased the player's empathetic bond to the central character. If alone, then traumatic situations affecting her directly could also assist in that, provided her survival capabilities and vulnerability are balanced realistically to reflect that whatever measure of self-reliance she has and has gained remains limited to an extent that reflects the reality that she is still a child of her age, albeit one of relatively mature experience, but still bound by her physical limitations.
Empathy to a character such as hers with a past that we have now just played through for a full season I think also requires a certain believable stability (not to mean undeveloped stagnancy) of core character that precludes the full elasticity the game seems to offer to the player. Her sassiness or her engaging in deceitful, manipulative behaviour (meaning particularly of the malicious sort) through the player's direct intervention at the click of a button is on its own fun for its own sake for the reason of contrast you've described (and also a double-edged sword as you say), but in a wider context rather unappealing and in respect to player motivation towards realistic formation of character, purposeless since it amounts ultimately to imposing our projection of character directly and effortlessly upon her. But that is the drawback of her becoming the game's player character. Her actions become ones predicated on the player's whim, not reactive responses of a former NPC backed and fashioned by her initial Season I character and personality along with the added influence of Lee's intervening role (in whatever direction the player had decided to have him take her). If we are for example to choose a deceitful and manipulative course of action directly on Clementine's part (in the case of the player's Lee having steered her in another direction last season) where she acts it out naturally, spontaneously, and with full aplomb, with the rationale being the harsh and demanding pressure of a savage world, at this point in the bigger story, in the way that new available side of her is presented as entirely accessible and natural, I find it quite too early (in a third season perhaps yes, after the player has actually worked and put effort during a second season into fashioning her so against all resistance, especially from Clementine's original self) and also detrimental to the goal of offering the player a purpose to invest his concerns in the girl. Instead, I would expect at this stage in the present course of game seasons for the game to show her acting so in such a way that displays stress, tension, and inner conflict, realistically showing the contrary nature of the action in respect to her character, as opposed to her behaving in such a way so naturally so as to appear to rewrite her character altogether. Lee was not a man who was going through a period of development. He was a character whose personality (or rather, manner of action, as unlike a blank slate he was already endowed with a core decency that allowed him to take on the work of caring for Clementine) was set into whatever mould we'd have chosen to give him through our dialogue choices and decisions, onto whom we had licence to project our desired personality as we wished, but that same licence does not extend to the player in the case of Clementine, whose conduct and character ought to be subject to certain restrictions imposed by her initial Season I persona and Lee's influence.
That is not to say I found the idea of allowing her to grow up and let her personality and manner of speech start developing and maturing itself objectionable (but 'start' is the operative word here in what I was hoping for and I found the time lapse was too great; I was hoping for one that was half its duration to keep her more freshly connected with past events in Season I and less changed and altered, but still enough for her to have transitioned to a point where the reality of being alone without protection set in and she could be considered fair game for the shock of direct assaults with no human aid and being on the receiving end of harmful and anguish-inducing treatment that the sacrosanct nature of her person under Lee's eye in Season I afforded her protection from; her picture here with the older character model was more what I was hoping for, still younger and more vulnerable, but marred by and having born by this point eventually in the course of the game much intense suffering that will have tested and started to affect her character severely: http://imageshack.com/a/img46/6176/bfxc.jpg ). Not meaning here to give an approving nod to the idea of endowing her with an overly Stoic demeanour, but still, I was for example quite happy with the maturity and loss of naiveté that was particularly illustrated in her evening conversation with Luke ("I was stupid")--I did not want to see her stagnantly inexperienced as she had been first introduced--but something as unbelievable and contradicting as that awful, surgically calm, monotonic 'it looks better now' after her arm-stitching ordeal was in the area of too much, and I found that exaggerative distortion of personality far more a disappointment and blow to my suspension of disbelief than the operation itself.
Unfortunately, the justification employed for executing this entire scrambling of her persona is the narrative black hole produced by the deus-ex-machina stunt of a time gap too far removed from the immediate aftermath of Season I and the early, fresh, beginning stages of psychological effects and impact resulting from the events of that season. For all the praise being showered on the 'hardening' concept (whether mental or in regards to skills)--and I feel players don't realise they've lost the distinction between 'hardened', an un-dynamic state, and 'hardening', a dynamic process with storytelling potential, with many seeming to prefer the former to the latter--I would say let the writers then meet it, with all the dynamics that theme has to offer, to its face and have us directly engage it (and in so doing have it similarly engage our sense of concern for Clementine's continuing development) and manipulate its course as we would have it as it starts to develop and gradually begins to work its way within Clementine (and let interactions with secondary characters, or even reflections on her behaviour and outlook with them play a strong role), still a 'green' player, relatively speaking on account of her age and insufficient lack of experience alone, in a world of cruel survival and still fresh in just having emerged out of a brutal series of shocking experiences (and in terms of outside protection, more vulnerable than was ever the case with her before), instead of, as Telltale has done, consigning it and the more believable cause-and-effect bounds and constraints to her personality (ie. Clementine's original persona combined with Lee's influence and then further on her choices and actions in this hypothetical second season) at work at that stage of her development to a memory hole or some amorphous narrative vacuum with the uninteresting title 'things just simply happened over the course of 16 months past', in which suddenly your imagination is left free to wander and conjure up a backstory relating to that stage of character development to justify rewriting the character and projecting whatever fully set and ready, new persona you choose for her at the click of a button, with her acting out the part of whatever dialogue or action choice you select for her as naturally as if this were already her set character, as if she was like Lee a new protagonist instead of a character whose personality as originally presented and as begun to be influenced by the player in Season I needs to be respected in its natural continuation and should require of a succeeding game to demand of the player who now plays her as a protagonist to clash with and work against if he aims to alter that personality (or, if aiming to preserve it, to face the dangers that threaten its perseverance) rather than relegate that task to a time jump, voiding the significance of your past actions in the last season, so as to consider Clementine already now set in stone, ready to play out naturally and rebooted into whatever personality you will have selected for her through the instant paragon/neutral-survivalist/renegade options (or however one might wish to characterise them) the game presents to you, in effect eliminating the dynamic of internal conflict and Clementine reacting to and being affected by decisions she can make or feel forced to make that run counter to her nature or the code of conduct she has taken to following.
As we have it now, no qualms or reluctance or unease if a manipulative and callous course of action or one fatal to another is forced upon or taken up by a Clementine whose compass steers away from such a direction. No threat of the fear of weakness, vulnerability, or renewed pain when a hardening, emotionally stripped, or dehumanised Clementine who has embarked on throwing away anything of her former self finds herself reacting with empathy once more at certain moments. No conflicting friction for a Clementine orienting towards a strict pragmatic survivalist's code finding herself being influenced in actions she takes by the strict/ideal ethical considerations or rank bitterness of the two aforementioned personas. More importantly, no danger from the world that would attempt to challenge the respective direction towards which each player has resolved to steer Clementine's maturing disposition and emerging personality, danger that is needed to engage our sense of worry or alarm continually as she grows and develops amidst all the chaos surrounding her. In the absence now of Lee's care/tutelage of the girl, and with our being tasked with playing Clementine as the protagonist (thus also eliminating our fear of danger of pre-finale plot deaths [ironically, this comes along with becoming accustomed to seeing Clementine die over and over in action death scenes necessitated by her protagonist role, becoming comfortably used to her being at home and in her element with violent situations, and further desensitised to fearing for her mortal life or perhaps to any potential death eventually forced by the plot finale]), we as players effectively are left in danger of losing our own protective concerns, this for many players being the primary motivation for playing the original series and seeing it through to its conclusion. Now that Clementine showing herself to be as capable as she is in dangerous situations has started to rub off on people, in order to still maintain that original constant motivation of fear and concern, players can only have recourse to one remaining point of weakness that threatens her, and that is her emotional and mental state, her perceptions and outlook, the danger to her humanity, her vulnerability to the psychological repercussions and tangible consequences stemming from her own conduct, decisions, and actions, but as we have it here now with the game mechanics and skipped time period, there is no option to develop these and fight for them. All we're left with is the ability to have these things defined already and scripted into a personality of our own choosing and made into a comfortable fit for Clementine who can sway and switch effortlessly between them with the click of the mouse. When the season-long preservation of her life was offered to the player as a guarantee by the very nature of her role in this game, I thought there could be only one survival concern left regarding her that the game would be able to focus on and through it hold our interest, and that was the survival of her own self and personhood. Apparently, we've lucked out with that given that these things look not to be at stake.
I know I've written enough, but let me leave you with my worries before the game was released as I had put it elsewhere, more succinct and less rambling than the stream of consciousness above:
"My perspective on this is that Clementine hasn't changed irrevocably and finally as much as she will actually be continuing to mature and evolve in her adaptive responses during this season, especially presuming that only a thankfully short period of time should have elapsed since the events of the first. This ought to be the main thrust of the game at this point, seeing her if not through the eyes of Lee but our own continue on, forced to develop her character further and with the hurtful trauma of past events still fresh and reverberating within a mournful and aching psyche. Although this world is one that hardens and forces an early maturity upon a young individual, I've no interest, and I'd think neither does Telltale, in seeing things turn caricaturish and presenting Clementine ready-made and transformed into a type of Xena or worse, Farah from the third Prince of Persia--then again even worse, the offputtingly one-dimensional Becca from 400 Days. This game has primarily focused on the complexities of the human condition and the impact of trying dilemmas, and although an innocence has been marred primarily from witnessing and being exposed to many horrific things, numbness is not something that sets in immediately, and in the interest of maintaining a similar balance as that between 'frustrating neediness and unrealistic maturity' (to paraphrase one reviewer), I should expect that the game will approach Clementine's character as one that nonetheless alongside contrary traits retains a measure of innocence and vulnerability, one that no longer faces the danger of merely being exposed to the horrors of the world, but now to the potential horrors of Clementine's own actions and decisions. In this way, one can still see potential for more grief, emotional anguish, and psychological hurt, which I hope the game will aim to flesh out if only to test the limits and bring the best out of Mrs Hutchison's vocal talents as well as leave room to engage the instinctive paternal concerns of the player on which the first season heavily capitalised.
There is however one difficulty that I'll be curious to see in what way Tellale will try to resolve. Whilst Clementine may still be only in the process of changing, what certainly seems to have changed fully and immediately as the article suggests, is our approach towards her, that being the direct result of our playing her as a protagonist. Certainly we would not wish for a repeat, introducing a protagonist that replaces Lee in the role of a father figure to her, but players might still wish to reserve the role of the concerned onlooker for themselves, seeing the attraction of the first season partly lay in influencing, reacting, and responding to Clementine as an independent NPC. True that you can maintain that spectator distance between her and yourself when merely controlling her to a certain degree, but if the player should control her as he had Lee, by directly controlling her dialogue (and in short, quick spaces of time that test your instinctual responses no less), then one cannot escape projecting himself onto her in such a way that one can no longer engage as a spectator her own personality and individual reactions, emotions, and behaviour, all the traits that make her an independent character to whom you can react and appreciate. I'll be interested to see how it plays out once the first episode is released."
My issue with her being a one-line-delivering, blackmailing, self-stitching Rambo wasn't so much if it was realistic. My issue was that it es… moresentially nullified the primary driving concern we had as an audience--concern for Clem's safety. What exactly are we supposed to be concerned about from now on? She seems a more capable person than any other adult she's met. She's even apparently threatening enough that other adults talk to her like she's Hans Gruber from Die Hard. What are our hopes for her now? She's got about 50 IQ points on any member of the season 2 cast. She herself doesn't seem all that concerned with finding Christa (and neither do we, since Clem doesn't seem to need or even like her). Additionally, unlike last season when there was an actual possibility she'd be killed off as a collateral character (ala Duck or Carly), we know she can't die as the protagonist (at least not until a full-on satisfying character arc completion… [view original content]
I thought the stitch up seen was enjoyable...but absurd. I mean, Clem STITCHES HERSELF UP PEOPLE! I also think it hilarious that, if you got… more the juice, you can take a swig of juice in between EVERY stitch up. Kind of like a parody of an action hero swigging his whiskey. I just picture Clem with a ride or die tattoo and a smoke dangling from her mouth. After shes finished stitching herself up, she takes down a walker with A RAKE GUYS!!! A freaking RAKE. I remember when I was 11, I was a bit short and weak and I had trouble handling a rake. Then AFTER all that, we can choose to have clem look at the camera, and say a ONE LINER! "Still.Not.bit." that was obviously put there by the writers. They knew this scene was a bit over the top. Also...why does clem still have her hat? She fell in a damn river and got carried away and then is still there...I mean...come one. Is it superglued? Also, how did clem carry Lee into that garage in season 1 with … [view original content]
Weell people are stronger than walkers but walkers just dont care what happens i saw a tv episode where a walker pushed his head too far in the fence and it came through in little squares...
Good points. With apologies for the sheer length, I'll add my bit to this.
Primary motivation and purpose (secondary motivation involving … morethe personal goals of new characters in a group aside) was I believe the biggest thing that needed to be addressed by Telltale when they decided to focus on Clementine for the second season. How what follows from here relates to that motivation will become clear towards the end, but I'll say I felt that they missed the mark by deciding to present her to us as having relatively solidified her personality (to whatever mould we immediately choose) rather than having us walk the road itself leading to such a point and working our own way up it, meaning that what I had strongly wanted to see with respect to her perspective of things and her conduct was inner conflict and the beginnings of possible change (accompanied with or without a perseverance of integrity, as the player chooses), and not a character-reset o… [view original content]
Comments
Well some people don't like that Clementine is black but they still enjoy the game alot and buy it. So what's your point?
Clementine is black?
Both Caucasian and African-American. Atleast that's what I thought.
Look at her mother and father then be racist.
Proof? i have her parents picture for proof.
I didn't say it was true. I said that's what I thought.
Being uncertain about someone's race doesn't entail racism lol.
Not being racist, I just never thought of Clementine as a "black kid."
To be honest, I've kind of gotten to the point that skin color isn't remotely the first thing I think about when I see someone or a character.
Clem nearly did pass out patching herself up. The screen went blurry
I think worrying about the realism of a video game is pointless.. Especially when talking about a zombie game.. I mean, if your going to argue about the realism of a character's actions, shouldnt you also argue the realism of zombies first?
I see alot of people who love nothing more than dissecting a movie or game to try to point out every tiny flaw or unrealstic moment that to me just spoils it.
I remember once as a kid watching the Making of Star Wars and saw how they made the space ship's fly.. Of course it was all special effects, but learning how it was done, really spoiled alot of the adventure and fantasy for me.
Many people come to The Walking Dead with a magnifying glass and try to pick it apart looking for anything that may not be perfect and try to argue the realism in a zombie game.
I think people would enjoy it more if they stopped worrying about every minor detail and just expirence the game for what it is.
I'm the same way! I even go as far as trying very hard to avoid seeing the faces of the people who voice act my favorite characters. I hope to never see who voice acts Clem, Lee, Kenny, and many others just because I would know it's all fake, not to say I don't already know it's all fake, but you know. Props to the actors though.
I agree with you two. Besides, she's not NINE anymore, she's eleven now. She's not that "little" anymore. She could be in 6th Grade or even 7th Grade by now. I knew some strong 6th and 7th Graders. Sure, most of them were male, but it's not like it's impossible or even improbable to have a fairly physically athletic female at 11 years of age.
Herm??
Dogs are know to snap at people who get near their food but not the way Sam attacked Clementine .
actually.. it can happen exactly the way Sam attacked Clementine, especially with the situation posed by the episode
I guess you never thought of Lee as "black man" too right? You people kill me lol. You act as if you never saw different colors of black people light brown, brown, caramel, dark brown. Clementine skin is caramel not white. Anyway white or black is not ever a skin color. That's bs to confuse people about whos who. Why is that so hard to understand ? Is it you don't want to understand ?
If it can happen then it's VERY rarely.
Dogs will snap or Growl when people get near their food.
But i guess if the dogs were to do that then their background would be messed up.
not really, situations like this happen more often than you would really think
in both animals and humans..
different stimuli and all that. not all animals function the same way as others, even in the same species, just like humans
nah, Lee is black, but it doesn't really mean that much. It's just another factor in appearance like hair and eye color. It's a person's experiences and actions that define them, not how they look on the outside.
We're all human.
We are all human, but every color had historical backgrounds. Cause you have something you like of color. No need to play crazy.
Season 1 Ep.1 Lee's zombie kill count: 7 (the police man, the babysitter, and 5 of the walkers at the motel.)
Season 2 Ep.1 Clem's zombie kill count: 2 (the tied up walker, and the one that attacked her in the shed)
yeah....."ridiculous strength".
We all have historical backgrounds. History is wonderful, and I love learning about all facets of history and seeing how various events connect to each other. What happens now can have a huge effect on something in the future across the world.
I don't exactly understand what you mean by your last two sentences. I'm not being crazy, and I'm assuming that you mean an black person played a role in the development of something I like? Yea, I'm sure of it. I'm guessing that almost all, if not all, races have played a development role in something that I like. I mean, for example, the Arabs played a huge role in the development of modern medicine. But that's human ingenuity at work. Every race has the potential to do amazing things, and sure, history is important, but just because the Arabs played a huge role in the development of medicine doesn't mean that your average Arab is going to make a good doctor.
Skin color isn't important. It's what you experience and do. Heritage is important in culture and beliefs, yes, and in certain cases our skills can be impacted by what our parents, grandparents, and lineage in general have done (if you take evolution as truth and us "evolving" to be more efficient at what we do), it doesn't mean much if you aren't trained to do the same thing.
She's very strong in tense situations. She carried/dragged lee out of the street and shut the steel door that neither her nor lee could lift after. She's the shehulk when she's scared.
Speaking of the Hulk, it would been cool if we had an option to tell Rebecca at the dinner table "Rebecca, please don't make me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry."
I wish color didn't matter. but it does. That's why we still have racism in 2013.
That's racism and bigotry based on stereotypes and thinking that a specific group of people are inferior to another.
In reality, it doesn't matter. Plus you think people are being racist when they really aren't, so I don't trust your definition of racism.
Racism is always going to exist because along with human ingenuity there is human irrationality. What you're essentially saying is that skin color matters because we let the irrational thoughts of others get the better of us. You make a bigger deal out of the color of someone's skin than you have to.
Racism is about power.
The real question here is:
How did her hat stay on the entire time?
Just kidding.
the hat is ridiculously strong
That or Clementine has the power to make her hat to reappear on her head.
And the proclamation of racism where it obviously isn't present is about ignorance. "Clementine is black?" She could have been many things, yes she is black, but he didn't know that. You have turned his question into what you think is racism, when guess what, it's just a question. You choose to see racism just to point it out and make others "realize" they are being racist. Maybe you should "realize" everyone doesn't have such a depressing outlook on race like you do. But I'm sure I'm just being racist, right?
I thought the stitch up seen was enjoyable...but absurd. I mean, Clem STITCHES HERSELF UP PEOPLE! I also think it hilarious that, if you got the juice, you can take a swig of juice in between EVERY stitch up. Kind of like a parody of an action hero swigging his whiskey. I just picture Clem with a ride or die tattoo and a smoke dangling from her mouth. After shes finished stitching herself up, she takes down a walker with A RAKE GUYS!!! A freaking RAKE. I remember when I was 11, I was a bit short and weak and I had trouble handling a rake. Then AFTER all that, we can choose to have clem look at the camera, and say a ONE LINER! "Still.Not.bit." that was obviously put there by the writers. They knew this scene was a bit over the top. Also...why does clem still have her hat? She fell in a damn river and got carried away and then is still there...I mean...come one. Is it superglued? Also, how did clem carry Lee into that garage in season 1 with TONS of walkers around. NO! Don't say adrenaline, it is RIDICULOUS. It made NO sense. That's why even the writers cut it. I think the scene with Clem vs the guy chasing her was handled well, actually. But the stitch up scene, no way. Just...no way.
Good points. With apologies for the sheer length, I'll add my bit to this.
Primary motivation and purpose (secondary motivation involving the personal goals of new characters in a group aside) was I believe the biggest thing that needed to be addressed by Telltale when they decided to focus on Clementine for the second season. How what follows from here relates to that motivation will become clear towards the end, but I'll say I felt that they missed the mark by deciding to present her to us as having relatively solidified her personality (to whatever mould we immediately choose) rather than having us walk the road itself leading to such a point and working our own way up it, meaning that what I had strongly wanted to see with respect to her perspective of things and her conduct was inner conflict and the beginnings of possible change (accompanied with or without a perseverance of integrity, as the player chooses), and not a character-reset option in the form of a set of choices where every available line of action or dialogue comes naturally to her. To quote one reviewer: "The only real sin committed by All That Remains is that it's a first episode to the second season rather than a sixth episode to the first season." Fast forwarding was a detriment since the Clementine the conclusion of the first season had primarily motivated me to wish to re-encounter or to have a reason to want to in a new season whose expected appeal to me would have lain essentially in the promise of character development strengthened by close continuity was a Clementine now suffering the direct aftermath of a season's distressing ordeal and having to enter fully this new world now deprived of the protection of her guardian, ready to evolve further, prompted in a certain direction by his influence, and carrying in herself with her the painful effects of everything that had transpired. As you've said, the reactions of characters to her had they been realistic would have laid groundwork that could have further increased the player's empathetic bond to the central character. If alone, then traumatic situations affecting her directly could also assist in that, provided her survival capabilities and vulnerability are balanced realistically to reflect that whatever measure of self-reliance she has and has gained remains limited to an extent that reflects the reality that she is still a child of her age, albeit one of relatively mature experience, but still bound by her physical limitations.
Empathy to a character such as hers with a past that we have now just played through for a full season I think also requires a certain believable stability (not to mean undeveloped stagnancy) of core character that precludes the full elasticity the game seems to offer to the player. Her sassiness or her engaging in deceitful, manipulative behaviour (meaning particularly of the malicious sort) through the player's direct intervention at the click of a button is on its own fun for its own sake for the reason of contrast you've described (and also a double-edged sword as you say), but in a wider context rather unappealing and in respect to player motivation towards realistic formation of character, purposeless since it amounts ultimately to imposing our projection of character directly and effortlessly upon her. But that is the drawback of her becoming the game's player character. Her actions become ones predicated on the player's whim, not reactive responses of a former NPC backed and fashioned by her initial Season I character and personality along with the added influence of Lee's intervening role (in whatever direction the player had decided to have him take her). If we are for example to choose a deceitful and manipulative course of action directly on Clementine's part (in the case of the player's Lee having steered her in another direction last season) where she acts it out naturally, spontaneously, and with full aplomb, with the rationale being the harsh and demanding pressure of a savage world, at this point in the bigger story, in the way that new available side of her is presented as entirely accessible and natural, I find it quite too early (in a third season perhaps yes, after the player has actually worked and put effort during a second season into fashioning her so against all resistance, especially from Clementine's original self) and also detrimental to the goal of offering the player a purpose to invest his concerns in the girl. Instead, I would expect at this stage in the present course of game seasons for the game to show her acting so in such a way that displays stress, tension, and inner conflict, realistically showing the contrary nature of the action in respect to her character, as opposed to her behaving in such a way so naturally so as to appear to rewrite her character altogether. Lee was not a man who was going through a period of development. He was a character whose personality (or rather, manner of action, as unlike a blank slate he was already endowed with a core decency that allowed him to take on the work of caring for Clementine) was set into whatever mould we'd have chosen to give him through our dialogue choices and decisions, onto whom we had licence to project our desired personality as we wished, but that same licence does not extend to the player in the case of Clementine, whose conduct and character ought to be subject to certain restrictions imposed by her initial Season I persona and Lee's influence.
That is not to say I found the idea of allowing her to grow up and let her personality and manner of speech start developing and maturing itself objectionable (but 'start' is the operative word here in what I was hoping for and I found the time lapse was too great; I was hoping for one that was half its duration to keep her more freshly connected with past events in Season I and less changed and altered, but still enough for her to have transitioned to a point where the reality of being alone without protection set in and she could be considered fair game for the shock of direct assaults with no human aid and being on the receiving end of harmful and anguish-inducing treatment that the sacrosanct nature of her person under Lee's eye in Season I afforded her protection from; her picture here with the older character model was more what I was hoping for, still younger and more vulnerable, but marred by and having born by this point eventually in the course of the game much intense suffering that will have tested and started to affect her character severely: http://imageshack.com/a/img46/6176/bfxc.jpg ). Not meaning here to give an approving nod to the idea of endowing her with an overly Stoic demeanour, but still, I was for example quite happy with the maturity and loss of naiveté that was particularly illustrated in her evening conversation with Luke ("I was stupid")--I did not want to see her stagnantly inexperienced as she had been first introduced--but something as unbelievable and contradicting as that awful, surgically calm, monotonic 'it looks better now' after her arm-stitching ordeal was in the area of too much, and I found that exaggerative distortion of personality far more a disappointment and blow to my suspension of disbelief than the operation itself.
Unfortunately, the justification employed for executing this entire scrambling of her persona is the narrative black hole produced by the deus-ex-machina stunt of a time gap too far removed from the immediate aftermath of Season I and the early, fresh, beginning stages of psychological effects and impact resulting from the events of that season. For all the praise being showered on the 'hardening' concept (whether mental or in regards to skills)--and I feel players don't realise they've lost the distinction between 'hardened', an un-dynamic state, and 'hardening', a dynamic process with storytelling potential, with many seeming to prefer the former to the latter--I would say let the writers then meet it, with all the dynamics that theme has to offer, to its face and have us directly engage it (and in so doing have it similarly engage our sense of concern for Clementine's continuing development) and manipulate its course as we would have it as it starts to develop and gradually begins to work its way within Clementine (and let interactions with secondary characters, or even reflections on her behaviour and outlook with them play a strong role), still a 'green' player, relatively speaking on account of her age and insufficient lack of experience alone, in a world of cruel survival and still fresh in just having emerged out of a brutal series of shocking experiences (and in terms of outside protection, more vulnerable than was ever the case with her before), instead of, as Telltale has done, consigning it and the more believable cause-and-effect bounds and constraints to her personality (ie. Clementine's original persona combined with Lee's influence and then further on her choices and actions in this hypothetical second season) at work at that stage of her development to a memory hole or some amorphous narrative vacuum with the uninteresting title 'things just simply happened over the course of 16 months past', in which suddenly your imagination is left free to wander and conjure up a backstory relating to that stage of character development to justify rewriting the character and projecting whatever fully set and ready, new persona you choose for her at the click of a button, with her acting out the part of whatever dialogue or action choice you select for her as naturally as if this were already her set character, as if she was like Lee a new protagonist instead of a character whose personality as originally presented and as begun to be influenced by the player in Season I needs to be respected in its natural continuation and should require of a succeeding game to demand of the player who now plays her as a protagonist to clash with and work against if he aims to alter that personality (or, if aiming to preserve it, to face the dangers that threaten its perseverance) rather than relegate that task to a time jump, voiding the significance of your past actions in the last season, so as to consider Clementine already now set in stone, ready to play out naturally and rebooted into whatever personality you will have selected for her through the instant paragon/neutral-survivalist/renegade options (or however one might wish to characterise them) the game presents to you, in effect eliminating the dynamic of internal conflict and Clementine reacting to and being affected by decisions she can make or feel forced to make that run counter to her nature or the code of conduct she has taken to following.
As we have it now, no qualms or reluctance or unease if a manipulative and callous course of action or one fatal to another is forced upon or taken up by a Clementine whose compass steers away from such a direction. No threat of the fear of weakness, vulnerability, or renewed pain when a hardening, emotionally stripped, or dehumanised Clementine who has embarked on throwing away anything of her former self finds herself reacting with empathy once more at certain moments. No conflicting friction for a Clementine orienting towards a strict pragmatic survivalist's code finding herself being influenced in actions she takes by the strict/ideal ethical considerations or rank bitterness of the two aforementioned personas. More importantly, no danger from the world that would attempt to challenge the respective direction towards which each player has resolved to steer Clementine's maturing disposition and emerging personality, danger that is needed to engage our sense of worry or alarm continually as she grows and develops amidst all the chaos surrounding her. In the absence now of Lee's care/tutelage of the girl, and with our being tasked with playing Clementine as the protagonist (thus also eliminating our fear of danger of pre-finale plot deaths [ironically, this comes along with becoming accustomed to seeing Clementine die over and over in action death scenes necessitated by her protagonist role, becoming comfortably used to her being at home and in her element with violent situations, and further desensitised to fearing for her mortal life or perhaps to any potential death eventually forced by the plot finale]), we as players effectively are left in danger of losing our own protective concerns, this for many players being the primary motivation for playing the original series and seeing it through to its conclusion. Now that Clementine showing herself to be as capable as she is in dangerous situations has started to rub off on people, in order to still maintain that original constant motivation of fear and concern, players can only have recourse to one remaining point of weakness that threatens her, and that is her emotional and mental state, her perceptions and outlook, the danger to her humanity, her vulnerability to the psychological repercussions and tangible consequences stemming from her own conduct, decisions, and actions, but as we have it here now with the game mechanics and skipped time period, there is no option to develop these and fight for them. All we're left with is the ability to have these things defined already and scripted into a personality of our own choosing and made into a comfortable fit for Clementine who can sway and switch effortlessly between them with the click of the mouse. When the season-long preservation of her life was offered to the player as a guarantee by the very nature of her role in this game, I thought there could be only one survival concern left regarding her that the game would be able to focus on and through it hold our interest, and that was the survival of her own self and personhood. Apparently, we've lucked out with that given that these things look not to be at stake.
I know I've written enough, but let me leave you with my worries before the game was released as I had put it elsewhere, more succinct and less rambling than the stream of consciousness above:
"My perspective on this is that Clementine hasn't changed irrevocably and finally as much as she will actually be continuing to mature and evolve in her adaptive responses during this season, especially presuming that only a thankfully short period of time should have elapsed since the events of the first. This ought to be the main thrust of the game at this point, seeing her if not through the eyes of Lee but our own continue on, forced to develop her character further and with the hurtful trauma of past events still fresh and reverberating within a mournful and aching psyche. Although this world is one that hardens and forces an early maturity upon a young individual, I've no interest, and I'd think neither does Telltale, in seeing things turn caricaturish and presenting Clementine ready-made and transformed into a type of Xena or worse, Farah from the third Prince of Persia--then again even worse, the offputtingly one-dimensional Becca from 400 Days. This game has primarily focused on the complexities of the human condition and the impact of trying dilemmas, and although an innocence has been marred primarily from witnessing and being exposed to many horrific things, numbness is not something that sets in immediately, and in the interest of maintaining a similar balance as that between 'frustrating neediness and unrealistic maturity' (to paraphrase one reviewer), I should expect that the game will approach Clementine's character as one that nonetheless alongside contrary traits retains a measure of innocence and vulnerability, one that no longer faces the danger of merely being exposed to the horrors of the world, but now to the potential horrors of Clementine's own actions and decisions. In this way, one can still see potential for more grief, emotional anguish, and psychological hurt, which I hope the game will aim to flesh out if only to test the limits and bring the best out of Mrs Hutchison's vocal talents as well as leave room to engage the instinctive paternal concerns of the player on which the first season heavily capitalised.
There is however one difficulty that I'll be curious to see in what way Tellale will try to resolve. Whilst Clementine may still be only in the process of changing, what certainly seems to have changed fully and immediately as the article suggests, is our approach towards her, that being the direct result of our playing her as a protagonist. Certainly we would not wish for a repeat, introducing a protagonist that replaces Lee in the role of a father figure to her, but players might still wish to reserve the role of the concerned onlooker for themselves, seeing the attraction of the first season partly lay in influencing, reacting, and responding to Clementine as an independent NPC. True that you can maintain that spectator distance between her and yourself when merely controlling her to a certain degree, but if the player should control her as he had Lee, by directly controlling her dialogue (and in short, quick spaces of time that test your instinctual responses no less), then one cannot escape projecting himself onto her in such a way that one can no longer engage as a spectator her own personality and individual reactions, emotions, and behaviour, all the traits that make her an independent character to whom you can react and appreciate. I'll be interested to see how it plays out once the first episode is released."
YES!!! I want that as a thing right now!
Weell people are stronger than walkers but walkers just dont care what happens i saw a tv episode where a walker pushed his head too far in the fence and it came through in little squares...
I think the stitch up scene might have been wink to Episode 1 of Season 1 where she was upset about having a little cut on her finger.
Cool story bro