About the touching on the first date thing- Maybe it's the reason I have a lot of trouble finding a date, but I'm VERY uncomfortable being touched... and don't even get me started on kissing (I have a gag reflex that goes haywire, even if I try to kiss my parents)
Treat a person as a person and things should just go from there.
I'm the same. I'm polite, but it takes me a long time to warm up to anyone, date or no. Someone mentioned falling into the "friends trap". Well, OK, but we cannot skip over becoming friends. This is non-negotiable. My thought process goes "Can I hold a real conversation with this guy? Is he an a-hole? Do I think he would help me out in the zombie apocalypse? OK, he seems nice. Now, am I attracted to him?
Usually one date is enough to figure that out, but that means hold off on the touchy-feely (except maybe for hand-touching) until the end of the date. Poking in particular annoys me, and the guy sometimes says "poke!" all playful-like. I think it's a way to "test the waters". But if I don't respond in a positive way or reciprocate, stop. For a few guys, the poking was just nonstop, even though I acted cold toward it.
For a few guys, the poking was just nonstop, even though I acted cold toward it.
If a dude is all pokey and my crankypants "seriously, one more time and I'm gonna bite you" face doesn't work, I just straight up say I don't like it. No harm in being direct.
Irishmile is a manly, married man with two... oh wait, THREE kids, twin girls and one boy? Am I right?
BTW, Lonnie, you can multiquote people by using the "+" button on the lower right of posts. No need to post four times.
Yes I do have twin girls and a boy.... and I am a manly married man.. sometimes I even do manly things like chop wood and perform bitchin top gun style high fives while playing sports :cool: ... I know I know... ladies right now you're thinking ... why must Irishmile be married?.. fret not I am not perfect... sometimes my hair is messy.
This is a lesson more women should learn. It seems like it's always a guessing game with women I've met. It's a game I'm more than willing to play, mind you; but it gets rather taxing after some time - especially the ones where you don't know if you've been friend zoned.
Went about a year on one of those once and didn't even know I'd been friend zoned for most of the time. True story.
This is a lesson more women should learn. It seems like it's always a guessing game with women I've met. It's a game I'm more than willing to play, mind you; but it gets rather taxing after some time - especially the ones where you don't know if you've been friend zoned.
Went about a year on one of those once and didn't even know I'd been friend zoned for most of the time. True story.
Honestly, women...are..No offense to the female users.
They like to play games, well a majority of them do at least...just to see if your territorial, offer something other than a relationship...most women I've dated have a crude Idea of what a relationship should be.
Honestly, women...are..No offense to the female users.
They like to play games, well a majority of them do at least...just to see if your territorial, offer something other than a relationship...most women I've dated have a crude Idea of what a relationship should be.
I know exactly what you mean, man. It's like they enjoy watching us try to figure stuff out without any clues and the most vague hints. I think they must be secret sadists, or something.
Met a guy on a dating site a long time ago, and he was a real (insert really bad word here.)
My X I met on a community place called Arto, but that relationship was really bad and I am glad I got out of it in the end.
My boyfriend I am with now I met online, not on an actual dating site but in Guild Wars.
So I am a shy person, and I can't really go out to meet people. So I relied on the internet to find my match, and it worked out in the end.
This is a lesson more women should learn. It seems like it's always a guessing game with women I've met. It's a game I'm more than willing to play, mind you; but it gets rather taxing after some time - especially the ones where you don't know if you've been friend zoned.
Went about a year on one of those once and didn't even know I'd been friend zoned for most of the time. True story.
What were you doing for that year? Was there anything sexual going on? This is why you don't putz around becoming friends first.
I know exactly what you mean, man. It's like they enjoy watching us try to figure stuff out without any clues and the most vague hints. I think they must be secret sadists, or something.
This is very astute...er... I mean, I have absolutely no idea what you could possibly mean by this. At all.
I've never dated online, but I used to go to a chatroom where you put your gender. As soon as I arrived I was flooded with PMs. I literally wouldn't have been able to close all tabs because they opened faster than I could have closed them (even without reading what they were saying).
I did NOT reply to people who said "what's up?" or "how are you?", unless they were the first one to. No time! I answered when people seemed interesting enough to talk to, and talked to just one or two guys and ignored all the rest. And sometimes I was there to talk to a friend so I ignored all of them (although I guess in an online website you're probably at least looking).
From what I've heard, dating sites are similar. They're probably flooded with messages so it will take something special for them to respond at all.
By the way, after that I set my gender to "male" on the chat so I'd be left alone. Only problem: females rarely if ever replied (I understood why) and guys usually couldn't care less either. I stopped going altogether in the end.
Unless they have a ring on their (right ring) finger, you have no idea if they're in a relationship, or what they're like.
Even that doesn't mean much. I never wore a ring with my husband and neither has he, because neither of us is Christian and for us it was a Christian thing. (By the way, I grew up being told that left hand is for love marriage, right hand is if it was an arranged marriage and you're not in love).
I know people who wear rings on their ring fingers because they're ring fingers, but who don't have a boyfriend (and would be surprised if someone told them "I thought you were married" as they don't see the relation).
And with Seamus we got rings because we'd be apart so much and thought it would help feeling more like a couple, and while this ring is a symbol of my being with someone (although I'm still available), it's on my middle finger.
So yeah, rings don't necessarily mean squat, neither does the absence of rings (neither my parents nor my inlaws wear wedding rings either, by the way).
Don't sweat it, Lonnie.
When you're dating you're wishing you had a girlfriend. When you've got a girlfriend you miss the thrill of dating.
Some people get the best of both worlds
Ah, and about the paying thing. If someone invites me out, I'll assume they'll pay (whether they're male or female). I don't usually go out because I can't afford it, so I'd be very upset with someone I agree to go out with because they wanted to (I don't mean going out as in a date, but just eating out in general) and then making me pay my share. I'd feel like they conned me, and now I have to skip a couple of meals to get even.
I'm speaking specifically of people who invite me. People who ask "want to grab something to eat?" are a different story (and I'm likely to answer "sorry, I can't afford it" if that's the case).
Oh, and about being direct... YES! Be direct. That's true of men too. Some of them seem to think if they're nice and ignore your hitting on them, you'll "get the message" even if they never reject you.
But hey, if I hit on someone and don't get rejected, I assume I can keep going. And if I get zero reaction, I assume either he likes it (and therefore has no reason to react to it since he doesn't want it to change) or doesn't get that I'm hitting on him, so I get progressively less subtle about it.
Too often it ends up with a guy either going "please leave me alone!" without any prior sign that he might not have been interested, or them actively avoiding me suddenly. Jeez, tell me you're not interested from the start, you won't hurt my feelings as much. It sucks realising you thought someone liked you for months when they were just "trying to be nice".
I try to be direct, although I can be deluded and not notice someone like me, so I appreciate people who are direct too. With Seamus, he told me he was interested right away, and I told him I wasn't, and then we moved on to being friends, and got to know each other. There was no drama and he never asked again or pressured me or anything.
Then after talking a lot and being friends, I fell in love with him, I told him I was now interested, and he said he still was, so we became a couple. No drama, no hassle. If only everyone else worked that way.
nobody fucking likes being poked, a girl did it to me and I near ate the head off her, but I figured it was a one off
One guy kept doing it to my FACE even after I EXPRESSLY told him it was not pleasurable. WTF POKE ME IN THE FACE ?? He almost lost his finger down to the second knuckle.
Honestly, women [...] like to play games, well a majority of them do at least...
I can't stand bullshit. I'll be honest about stuff and expect honesty in return... the only game-playing I like in my relationships is of the Pictionary and Scrabble variety.
This is why you don't putz around becoming friends first.
I'm not sure I've ever been particularly interested in someone who didn't start out as a friend (how am I supposed to like a guy if I don't know him?). I pretty much want my partner to be my best mate anyway - hang out, laugh a lot, and generally have fun times as co-conspirators in mischief.
I'm not sure I've ever been particularly interested in someone who didn't start out as a friend (how am I supposed to like a guy if I don't know him?). I pretty much want my partner to be my best mate anyway - hang out, laugh a lot, and generally have fun times as co-conspirators in mischief.
Your brain makes a judgment based on the man's perceived quality of genes and/or ability to provide for children. Doesn't matter if you're conscious of this or not.
If you're a unique case where you need to be friends for a while first then that's fine, but most men are making a huge mistake with most women if they're interested in them and spend time making platonic friends with them.
I'm not sure I've ever been particularly interested in someone who didn't start out as a friend (how am I supposed to like a guy if I don't know him?). I pretty much want my partner to be my best mate anyway - hang out, laugh a lot, and generally have fun times as co-conspirators in mischief.
Seconded. I usually like someone because I've spent enough time around him to know things about him, what he likes, what his sense of humour is like, things like that. End even when I'm interested in someone I'm not close friends with yet, what I want first is to be friends and get to know each other. To me, it's the compulsory first step.
If you're a unique case where you need to be friends for a while first then that's fine, but most men are making a huge mistake with most women if they're interested in them and spend time making platonic friends with them.
I think there is something else to it. There is no magical "friend zone" that prevents you from ever being with that woman, However, if she gets to know you well and nothing happens, then that means she's not interested in you. It's not because you were in the "friend zone" for too long, it's the other way around. You stayed friends for so long (rather than go further) BECAUSE she wasn't interested in you romantically. You became friends and stayed there BECAUSE she didn't want to date you.
There is no "don't stay her friend or she won't date you". It's more of a "if she doesn't want to date you, you'll stay her friend". You guys have it backwards.
Your brain makes a judgment based on the man's perceived quality of genes and/or ability to provide for children. Doesn't matter if you're conscious of this or not.
Really? Then how come so many women end up in shitty relationships that end with the woman stuck with a child and the man running away because he doesn't want to provide for a family, or worse. Their brains must not be functioning properly.
Really? Then how come so many women end up in shitty relationships that end with the woman stuck with a child and the man running away because he doesn't want to provide for a family, or worse. Their brains must not be functioning properly.
All right, here's the deal. That's the faultiest, least accurate system ever. In my opinion, people should teach themselves to become aware of this, and fight the hell out of it, because it's utter bullshit. And if they can't fight it, it's an even bigger amount of bullshit.
It's, if I'm reading you right, nothing more than a snap judgment made subconsciously by the brain. I mean, you responded to "if I don't know him how can I like him" with this response, so it has to be a snap judgment. Snap judgments are bullshit, and if the brain is going around making them for you without your conscious acceptance, then that is a stupid and will get everyone into trouble.
If people can teach their brains that cliff diving is okay, then they can get over these supposed instincts they have about child rearing or whatever.
Anyways, on the dating side of things, I've always considered myself to have pretty simple needs. Here's my dating list.
1) I should be able to relate with them.
2) I should be able to feel comfort with them.
3) I should feel a need to be intimate with them.
4) They should be attractive to me.
5) They should have a functioning brain (the smarter the better).
6) No mind games.
However, I don't really seek out a person specifically for dating. If they show up in my life and like me back, then neato keen, I'll try to be a good girlfriend to them. Sometimes I'm a little down from being single, but that's just a natural thing. Overall I'm pretty content being independent.
All right, here's the deal. That's the faultiest, least accurate system ever. In my opinion, people should teach themselves to become aware of this, and fight the hell out of it, because it's utter bullshit. And if they can't fight it, it's an even bigger amount of bullshit.
It's, if I'm reading you right, nothing more than a snap judgment made subconsciously by the brain. I mean, you responded to "if I don't know him how can I like him" with this response, so it has to be a snap judgment. Snap judgments are bullshit, and if the brain is going around making them for you without your conscious acceptance, then that is a stupid and will get everyone into trouble.
It's an evolutionary holdover. 'Bad boy' syndrome does exist.
I'd like to point out that since you can't sense pheromones online, neither plays an impact on online dating "before you get to know each other". Knowing someone can provide for children would require knowing more about their situation, which requires talking about it and getting to know them about it, and gene compatibility is identified through pheromones.
Am I the only male geek alive that has had to turn down a female friend because I wasn't interested? Hell, I've had this happen to me more than once. This can't be all THAT uncommon of an occurrence that this idea of females having complete control of all dating situations is actually believed by people, is it?
I mean, I see male geeks rail on females for "friend zoning" them, but that's not very fair. To turn down someone, especially someone you like and whose company you enjoy, is a very painful thing to do. It's not like anyone takes pleasure in it, at least not anyone of substance.
Maybe the "friend zone" idea comes from the perspective of people who simply don't know how to deal with other people, or have issues dealing with the opposite gender. They end up acting odd and subservient, rather than at all engaging or interesting. Maybe these guys talk to girls in a way that's entirely different from the way they talk to other guys, maybe they don't treat girls as people. Again, I'm not out to insult anyone, but this "friend zone" idea, especially one in which the female is the only person who wields the power of rejection, seems to come from a space in which a person lacks confidence in themselves.
Am I the only male geek alive that has had to turn down a female friend because I wasn't interested? Hell, I've had this happen to me more than once. This can't be all THAT uncommon of an occurrence that this idea of females having complete control of all dating situations is actually believed by people, is it?
I mean, I see male geeks rail on females for "friend zoning" them, but that's not very fair. To turn down someone, especially someone you like and whose company you enjoy, is a very painful thing to do. It's not like anyone takes pleasure in it, at least not anyone of substance.
Maybe the "friend zone" idea comes from the perspective of people who simply don't know how to deal with other people, or have issues dealing with the opposite gender. They end up acting odd and subservient, rather than at all engaging or interesting. Maybe these guys talk to girls in a way that's entirely different from the way they talk to other guys, maybe they don't treat girls as people. Again, I'm not out to insult anyone, but this "friend zone" idea, especially one in which the female is the only person who wields the power of rejection, seems to come from a space in which a person lacks confidence in themselves.
Personally, I think you're right, however nearly every rejection I've had or seen has been filled with scorn by the female party involved. Now, whether it was true scorn, a defensive action, or what, I can't say, but to say that every rejection is an unhappy occasion for the one doing it is untrue. What goes on in the head, I can't say, but past experience and the actions shown on the female side speaks for itself. This will sound sexist, but I've not seen such scorn in my experience from the male side. Most of this is because men are trained not to treat women that way in the American culture. Scorn, hate, insulting attitudes, and cruelty are squeezed out of the American male, so that most decent guys don't act such ways toward women. However, in the circles I've been in, I've never seen this sort of conditioning done on women. I've never seen women taught to restrain such actions and withdraw such scorn and treatment from men, only that they're taught that such should be withdrawn from them. I can't speak for every circle or everyone everywhere, but this is my previous experience.
Then again, I live in the Midwest, where everyone seems to want to pretend they're in the 1800s.
I don't think turning someone down with scorn or despite is ever a nice thing to do, no matter who you are (although it might be understandable if they've just killed your best friend or something). And I agree that turning someone down must be hard. I've never had to do it in a very serious manner, by which I mean turning down someone I was close to. The only person I can think of who hit on me and who I turned down is Seamus, and I had barely known him at the time. The rest were guys who walked up to me in the street that I had never met before (or since).
These aren't hard to say no to. But I can see how much harder it would be when you're closer. Because even though you don't feel the same way, you actually like that person and you don't want to hurt them.
Fawful, was some of it filled with disgust? One situation in which I can imagine such a thing is being hit on by someone you consider so close to you that it feels like being hit on by a sibling or something. As much as you love them, I think it might be hard to hide the expression on your face and how strongly you reject the idea.
Fawful, was some of it filled with disgust? One situation in which I can imagine such a thing is being hit on by someone you consider so close to you that it feels like being hit on by a sibling or something. As much as you love them, I think it might be hard to hide the expression on your face and how strongly you reject the idea.
Maybe once or twice. I'm not sure actually; I never thought about it at the time.
And with Seamus we got rings because we'd be apart so much and thought it would help feeling more like a couple, and while this ring is a symbol of my being with someone (although I'm still available), it's on my middle finger.
Some people get the best of both worlds
Actually I know a couple who have the best of both worlds too.
They have been living together for 26 years now, and they are one of the most happy and loving couples you'll ever meet.
However, they do date other men, and they do make love to other men.
They just have such an honest and beautiful relationship that they can cuddle up together every night without spite or jealousy.
I just couldn't imagine me doing the same thing with my girlfriend. Ofcourse we've only been dating for about a year, but I just can't imagine sharing her with someone else. Nor giving myself to someone else.
Sometimes I wish we could though. As I would love to date other women one day. But on the other hand I just can't and won't, because I love her.
Comments
I'm the same. I'm polite, but it takes me a long time to warm up to anyone, date or no. Someone mentioned falling into the "friends trap". Well, OK, but we cannot skip over becoming friends. This is non-negotiable. My thought process goes "Can I hold a real conversation with this guy? Is he an a-hole? Do I think he would help me out in the zombie apocalypse? OK, he seems nice. Now, am I attracted to him?
Usually one date is enough to figure that out, but that means hold off on the touchy-feely (except maybe for hand-touching) until the end of the date. Poking in particular annoys me, and the guy sometimes says "poke!" all playful-like. I think it's a way to "test the waters". But if I don't respond in a positive way or reciprocate, stop. For a few guys, the poking was just nonstop, even though I acted cold toward it.
Yeah, that pretty much sums it up
Very rude :mad:
If a dude is all pokey and my crankypants "seriously, one more time and I'm gonna bite you" face doesn't work, I just straight up say I don't like it. No harm in being direct.
Cos nobody fucking likes being poked, a girl did it to me and I near ate the head off her, but I figured it was a one off
Yes I do have twin girls and a boy.... and I am a manly married man.. sometimes I even do manly things like chop wood and perform bitchin top gun style high fives while playing sports :cool: ... I know I know... ladies right now you're thinking ... why must Irishmile be married?.. fret not I am not perfect... sometimes my hair is messy.
This is a lesson more women should learn. It seems like it's always a guessing game with women I've met. It's a game I'm more than willing to play, mind you; but it gets rather taxing after some time - especially the ones where you don't know if you've been friend zoned.
Went about a year on one of those once and didn't even know I'd been friend zoned for most of the time. True story.
Honestly, women...are..No offense to the female users.
They like to play games, well a majority of them do at least...just to see if your territorial, offer something other than a relationship...most women I've dated have a crude Idea of what a relationship should be.
I know exactly what you mean, man. It's like they enjoy watching us try to figure stuff out without any clues and the most vague hints. I think they must be secret sadists, or something.
Its just human nature I think.
My X I met on a community place called Arto, but that relationship was really bad and I am glad I got out of it in the end.
My boyfriend I am with now I met online, not on an actual dating site but in Guild Wars.
So I am a shy person, and I can't really go out to meet people. So I relied on the internet to find my match, and it worked out in the end.
What were you doing for that year? Was there anything sexual going on? This is why you don't putz around becoming friends first.
This is very astute...er... I mean, I have absolutely no idea what you could possibly mean by this. At all.
I've never dated online, but I used to go to a chatroom where you put your gender. As soon as I arrived I was flooded with PMs. I literally wouldn't have been able to close all tabs because they opened faster than I could have closed them (even without reading what they were saying).
I did NOT reply to people who said "what's up?" or "how are you?", unless they were the first one to. No time! I answered when people seemed interesting enough to talk to, and talked to just one or two guys and ignored all the rest. And sometimes I was there to talk to a friend so I ignored all of them (although I guess in an online website you're probably at least looking).
From what I've heard, dating sites are similar. They're probably flooded with messages so it will take something special for them to respond at all.
By the way, after that I set my gender to "male" on the chat so I'd be left alone. Only problem: females rarely if ever replied (I understood why) and guys usually couldn't care less either. I stopped going altogether in the end.
Even that doesn't mean much. I never wore a ring with my husband and neither has he, because neither of us is Christian and for us it was a Christian thing. (By the way, I grew up being told that left hand is for love marriage, right hand is if it was an arranged marriage and you're not in love).
I know people who wear rings on their ring fingers because they're ring fingers, but who don't have a boyfriend (and would be surprised if someone told them "I thought you were married" as they don't see the relation).
And with Seamus we got rings because we'd be apart so much and thought it would help feeling more like a couple, and while this ring is a symbol of my being with someone (although I'm still available), it's on my middle finger.
So yeah, rings don't necessarily mean squat, neither does the absence of rings (neither my parents nor my inlaws wear wedding rings either, by the way).
Some people get the best of both worlds
Ah, and about the paying thing. If someone invites me out, I'll assume they'll pay (whether they're male or female). I don't usually go out because I can't afford it, so I'd be very upset with someone I agree to go out with because they wanted to (I don't mean going out as in a date, but just eating out in general) and then making me pay my share. I'd feel like they conned me, and now I have to skip a couple of meals to get even.
I'm speaking specifically of people who invite me. People who ask "want to grab something to eat?" are a different story (and I'm likely to answer "sorry, I can't afford it" if that's the case).
What do you mean "we"? Irishmile, I never knew you were the manipulative type.
I keep my eye on you.
But hey, if I hit on someone and don't get rejected, I assume I can keep going. And if I get zero reaction, I assume either he likes it (and therefore has no reason to react to it since he doesn't want it to change) or doesn't get that I'm hitting on him, so I get progressively less subtle about it.
Too often it ends up with a guy either going "please leave me alone!" without any prior sign that he might not have been interested, or them actively avoiding me suddenly. Jeez, tell me you're not interested from the start, you won't hurt my feelings as much. It sucks realising you thought someone liked you for months when they were just "trying to be nice".
I try to be direct, although I can be deluded and not notice someone like me, so I appreciate people who are direct too. With Seamus, he told me he was interested right away, and I told him I wasn't, and then we moved on to being friends, and got to know each other. There was no drama and he never asked again or pressured me or anything.
Then after talking a lot and being friends, I fell in love with him, I told him I was now interested, and he said he still was, so we became a couple. No drama, no hassle. If only everyone else worked that way.
One guy kept doing it to my FACE even after I EXPRESSLY told him it was not pleasurable. WTF POKE ME IN THE FACE ?? He almost lost his finger down to the second knuckle.
Simple proximity works just fine.
I couldn't quite see what was happening there through the haze of testosterone
I can't stand bullshit. I'll be honest about stuff and expect honesty in return... the only game-playing I like in my relationships is of the Pictionary and Scrabble variety.
I'm not sure I've ever been particularly interested in someone who didn't start out as a friend (how am I supposed to like a guy if I don't know him?). I pretty much want my partner to be my best mate anyway - hang out, laugh a lot, and generally have fun times as co-conspirators in mischief.
Your brain makes a judgment based on the man's perceived quality of genes and/or ability to provide for children. Doesn't matter if you're conscious of this or not.
If you're a unique case where you need to be friends for a while first then that's fine, but most men are making a huge mistake with most women if they're interested in them and spend time making platonic friends with them.
Seconded. I usually like someone because I've spent enough time around him to know things about him, what he likes, what his sense of humour is like, things like that. End even when I'm interested in someone I'm not close friends with yet, what I want first is to be friends and get to know each other. To me, it's the compulsory first step.
I think there is something else to it. There is no magical "friend zone" that prevents you from ever being with that woman, However, if she gets to know you well and nothing happens, then that means she's not interested in you. It's not because you were in the "friend zone" for too long, it's the other way around. You stayed friends for so long (rather than go further) BECAUSE she wasn't interested in you romantically. You became friends and stayed there BECAUSE she didn't want to date you.
There is no "don't stay her friend or she won't date you". It's more of a "if she doesn't want to date you, you'll stay her friend". You guys have it backwards.
Really? Then how come so many women end up in shitty relationships that end with the woman stuck with a child and the man running away because he doesn't want to provide for a family, or worse. Their brains must not be functioning properly.
Read what I wrote again.
All right, here's the deal. That's the faultiest, least accurate system ever. In my opinion, people should teach themselves to become aware of this, and fight the hell out of it, because it's utter bullshit. And if they can't fight it, it's an even bigger amount of bullshit.
It's, if I'm reading you right, nothing more than a snap judgment made subconsciously by the brain. I mean, you responded to "if I don't know him how can I like him" with this response, so it has to be a snap judgment. Snap judgments are bullshit, and if the brain is going around making them for you without your conscious acceptance, then that is a stupid and will get everyone into trouble.
Anyways, on the dating side of things, I've always considered myself to have pretty simple needs. Here's my dating list.
1) I should be able to relate with them.
2) I should be able to feel comfort with them.
3) I should feel a need to be intimate with them.
4) They should be attractive to me.
5) They should have a functioning brain (the smarter the better).
6) No mind games.
However, I don't really seek out a person specifically for dating. If they show up in my life and like me back, then neato keen, I'll try to be a good girlfriend to them. Sometimes I'm a little down from being single, but that's just a natural thing. Overall I'm pretty content being independent.
It's an evolutionary holdover. 'Bad boy' syndrome does exist.
I mean, I see male geeks rail on females for "friend zoning" them, but that's not very fair. To turn down someone, especially someone you like and whose company you enjoy, is a very painful thing to do. It's not like anyone takes pleasure in it, at least not anyone of substance.
Maybe the "friend zone" idea comes from the perspective of people who simply don't know how to deal with other people, or have issues dealing with the opposite gender. They end up acting odd and subservient, rather than at all engaging or interesting. Maybe these guys talk to girls in a way that's entirely different from the way they talk to other guys, maybe they don't treat girls as people. Again, I'm not out to insult anyone, but this "friend zone" idea, especially one in which the female is the only person who wields the power of rejection, seems to come from a space in which a person lacks confidence in themselves.
Personally, I think you're right, however nearly every rejection I've had or seen has been filled with scorn by the female party involved. Now, whether it was true scorn, a defensive action, or what, I can't say, but to say that every rejection is an unhappy occasion for the one doing it is untrue. What goes on in the head, I can't say, but past experience and the actions shown on the female side speaks for itself. This will sound sexist, but I've not seen such scorn in my experience from the male side. Most of this is because men are trained not to treat women that way in the American culture. Scorn, hate, insulting attitudes, and cruelty are squeezed out of the American male, so that most decent guys don't act such ways toward women. However, in the circles I've been in, I've never seen this sort of conditioning done on women. I've never seen women taught to restrain such actions and withdraw such scorn and treatment from men, only that they're taught that such should be withdrawn from them. I can't speak for every circle or everyone everywhere, but this is my previous experience.
Then again, I live in the Midwest, where everyone seems to want to pretend they're in the 1800s.
These aren't hard to say no to. But I can see how much harder it would be when you're closer. Because even though you don't feel the same way, you actually like that person and you don't want to hurt them.
Fawful, was some of it filled with disgust? One situation in which I can imagine such a thing is being hit on by someone you consider so close to you that it feels like being hit on by a sibling or something. As much as you love them, I think it might be hard to hide the expression on your face and how strongly you reject the idea.
Maybe once or twice. I'm not sure actually; I never thought about it at the time.
Actually I know a couple who have the best of both worlds too.
They have been living together for 26 years now, and they are one of the most happy and loving couples you'll ever meet.
However, they do date other men, and they do make love to other men.
They just have such an honest and beautiful relationship that they can cuddle up together every night without spite or jealousy.
I just couldn't imagine me doing the same thing with my girlfriend. Ofcourse we've only been dating for about a year, but I just can't imagine sharing her with someone else. Nor giving myself to someone else.
Sometimes I wish we could though. As I would love to date other women one day. But on the other hand I just can't and won't, because I love her.