I miss 2D Zelda. And Skyward Sword feels like it was made 10 years ago, and not in a good, nostalgic way. More of a "Have they been living under a rock for a decade? Who designs a game like this anymore?" way.
You know, you seem to go out of your way to hate on everything. And in a really annoying way. At least RatherDashing can be amusing at times.
Clearly, you can't read. I said "not in a good, nostalgic way". Also, 2D is a style of game, it doesn't have to feel like it was made 10 years ago to be 2D. Terraria doesn't feel 10 years old.
I miss 2D Zelda as well. Phantom Hourglass was good, and Spirit Tracks was great, but with Nintendo only making 3D Zelda games on consoles (and with the release of Ocarina 3D, they could move to only make 3D Zelda games on portable), together, the two games seem to confirm that portable Zelda will be touch screen controls only, and we may not see another classic-style 2D Zelda.
Thankfully, as soon as I finish Majora's Mask, I get to start the Oracle games, my sentimental favorites of the series. Not that I'm in any rush. I love Termina.
Clearly, you can't read. I said "not in a good, nostalgic way". Also, 2D is a style of game, it doesn't have to feel like it was made 10 years ago to be 2D. Terraria doesn't feel 10 years old.
By 2D you overy clearly meant Zelda from ten years prior (wait that's not right, whatevz), let's not beat around the bush here. You want Link to the Past and Links Awakening. And when Nintendo does it you'll be waiting in the shadows to shout rehash.
By 2D you overy clearly meant Zelda from ten years prior, let's not beat around the bush here. You want Link to the Past and Links Awakening. And when Nintendo does it you'll be waiting in the shadows to shout rehash.
A huge percentage of the great indie games coming out recently are 2D, and most of them don't feel like cheap, warmed over rehashes. If Nintendo basically just remade A Link to the Past and just swapped the sprites around and made a new world map and dungeons, I wouldn't be interested. I want games like Minish Cap, and Four Swords. Games that actually attempt to add worthwhile mechanics and ideas to the genre.
A huge percentage of the great indie games coming out recently are 2D, and most of them don't feel like cheap, warmed over rehashes. If Nintendo basically just remade A Link to the Past and just swapped the sprites around and made a new world map and dungeons, I wouldn't be interested. I want games like Minish Cap, and Four Swords. Games that actually attempt to add worthwhile mechanics and ideas to the genre.
There's plenty of new and worthwhile ideas and mechanics in the new Zelda game, I haven't cleared it at all, but here's what i've encountered.
-Total combat overhaul
-Blurring between dungeon and overworld gameplay
-New items
-Reused items have all been given a new mechanic/slant
-'Classic' Zelda structure has been rejiggered
The general consensus is that it's a very strong Zelda title and that it's the first Zelda title in quite a while to stick its neck out and do new things. It's not radically different, but what Zelda game is really bar Majoras Mask? And if you wanted to be a grumpus you could say that was OoT all over again.
Anyhoo, everyone in this thread that played it bar you loved it, and it's a shame you couldn't enjoy it as much as the rest of us. I hope the next offering is something you can enjoy and be enthusiastic about.
Speaking of Four Swords, I haven't played that one yet, because before now there wasn't a single-player mode. (Note to self: download that game to the 3DS ASAP.)
Well, that and the so-bad-it's-good CD-i games, though I have memorized the dialogue of most of them. I wonder what's for DINNER?
Speaking of Four Swords, I haven't played that one yet, because before now there wasn't a single-player mode. (Note to self: download that game to the 3DS ASAP.)
Well, that and the so-bad-it's-good CD-i games, though I have memorized the dialogue of most of them. I wonder what's for DINNER?
Oh god, please do not speak of those abominations.
GuruGuru, even though I don't share your opinion on Ocarina of Time 3D, I do give you credit for your taste. The Oracle games were fantastic.
And I sure hope that future portable games either build on what Ocarina of Time 3D has done, or go back to 2D. Without the BS touch screen control. That's the one thing that keeps me from buying the two DS games. I find the idea of controlling Link by dragging him around the bottom screen very...uninteresting.
It was my first too, hence the sentimental favoritism. The first Zelda I owned however, was Oracle of Seasons. A friend made me borrow Ages, and I liked it so much, I took my password from his finished game and bought a copy of Seasons to continue into. It was quite a while later that I got a copy of Ages for myself.
So it's night of the second day, and I just reached the Snowhead Temple. You might ask why it took me so long to reach the temple.
It's because I did Woodfall on the first day. Other than a couple quick trips to get Kamaro's Mask and the Bunny Hood, this is the first cycle in which I've left Clock Town.
A Link to the Past: Light/Dark world mechanic, the likes of which I've only ever seen elsewhere in Metroid Prime 2.
Gotta ask, how exactly is that different from the Young Link/Adult Link worlds in Ocarina of Time or the Twilight Realm/Hyrule thing in Twilight Princess? Both seem to be directly riffing on that mechanic.
Gotta ask, how exactly is that different from the Young Link/Adult Link worlds in Ocarina of Time or the Twilight Realm/Hyrule thing in Twilight Princess? Both seem to be directly riffing on that mechanic.
In Ocarina of Time, you have different equipment only available in either time period; and there are people you meet in the future who remember decisions you made in the past (eg. Guru-Guru). In LTTP, you can directly affect one world by interacting with the other, but no one from one side encounters you in the other (the boy with the flute is an illusion and doesn't count.)
In Twilight Princess, in twilit Hyrule you have no human-equippable items at all, and the twilit areas are only available for a limited period, as it it Link's job to restore them to normal. In Link to the Past, all items you obtain in the light world are available to you in the dark world once you obtain the Moon Pearl, and you are supposed to explore the dark world, not eliminate it (if/when it reverts to the Golden Land, that happens at the end of the game and is not seen.)
...I know what you're going to say. That they're still variations on a theme. Well, screw that. I don't agree. LTTP, OOT and TP are excellent games, and Nintendo did a wonderful job on all of them.
...I know what you're going to say. That they're still variations on a theme. Well, screw that. I don't agree. LTTP, OOT and TP are excellent games, and Nintendo did a wonderful job on all of them.
They may be variations on a theme. That was kind of the point I was trying to make. However, I am not deriding any of those games for that. All of them had strong gameplay and stories and characters, though I think Twilight Princess was trying too hard to be Ocarina of Time and to cater to the "OMG MUST HAVE REALZ GRAPHIX!!" crowd. Compared to other games, it just seemed very...drab, graphically.
Believe me, the only Zelda game that I really look down on is Zelda II, and I'll admit that I'm not giving it a fair chance, but I will eventually. Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks...might be worth the annoyance of the touch screen controls? Maybe? What do you guys think?
And no, I am NOT counting the CD-i abominations in the above statement. Those games should be wiped from the face of the Earth.
While I agree that LTTP, OOT, and TP are all excellent games, it's so totally a rip off variation of the same idea. I'd like to see another solid Zelda game without a dual-world mechanic. Something different.
I have not quite (yet) beat Skyward Sword, but my observations so far as as follows:
- There is no night flight... BUT the core game is large enough that this is not an unfair omission.
- It seems to me that the inventory selection is smaller than Ocarina of Time (or Twilight Princess but I could be wrong) BUT the inventory that exists feels neither small nor incomplete.
- Scenery such as trees seems to have an asterisk sort of appearance while in flight or at a certain distance/angle (I noticed it while looking down from
the Great Tree
) BUT the visuals otherwise are really very good.
- The major areas are separated in a way that keeps the world from feeling whole and interconnected, BUT they are each very large in size and are dungeons in and of themselves so it doesn't feel confining.
- The story is FANTASTIC. Especially when you realize that aspects that you once took as new and unfamiliar are not unfamiliar at all. (I tried not to be spoilery.)
VERY SPOILERY VERSION:
I was awestruck when I realized that "Granny" is really Impa, and the Sealed Temple is actually [and suddenly (to me) noticeably recognizeable as] the real Temple of Time from the other games.
Nintendo has a way with masterfully combining the familiar with the new. There is just the right amount of familiar elements of this game which harken back to the other games, while also feeling entirely new, original and in no way rehashed. I was at one point nitpicking at certain aspects of the game, until I reached a point in the story and came to quickly realize that the game is so absolutely fantastic that its shortcomings are very easily forgivable.
While I agree that LTTP, OOT, and TP are all excellent games, it's so totally a rip off variation of the same idea. I'd like to see another solid Zelda game without a dual-world mechanic. Something different.
You're in luck. Skyward Sword does not use this mechanic.
I think Twilight Princess was trying too hard to be Ocarina of Time and to cater to the "OMG MUST HAVE REALZ GRAPHIX!!" crowd.
Fans had been looking forward to Twilight Princess ever since the Spaceworld 2000 tech demo. The idea that one could play as a (then realistic) Adult Link, fighting Ganon with superior GameCube graphics was quite appealing. I like playing as an Adult Link. It was bad marketing to suddenly switch to the Wind Waker-style graphics after giving the fans this to look forward to. If Twilight Princess is reminiscent of Ocarina of Time, arguably one of the best video games of all time, then so be it.
Gotta ask, how exactly is that different from the Young Link/Adult Link worlds in Ocarina of Time or the Twilight Realm/Hyrule thing in Twilight Princess? Both seem to be directly riffing on that mechanic.
No. I wouldn't call the time travel or the Twilight Realm weak by any means, but they're nowhere near as strong as in A Link to the Past/Echoes. In both of those games, you basically have two overworlds that correspond to each other and which can only be explored by making use of the differences between them and traveling back and forth. The overworlds have the same shape, but are in fact completely different from each other.
Ocarina of Time's time travel was just one overworld where certain things changed just a little bit when you traveled through time. There was only one location to switch between time periods, and unlike even Oracle of Ages, you didn't progress into new areas by traversing part of it in one time period, then part in another, and so on.
As for Twilight Princess, the Twilight covered areas of Hyrule weren't so much another world as they were sections of the game where you were locked in wolf form, and the Twilight Realm itself didn't correspond to Hyrule at all.
Call it riffing on the same mechanic if you must, but the only Zelda game that has explored the dual overworld concept as thoroughly as A Link to the Past is Oracle of Ages. The Tune of Echoes behaves like the Dark World warps in ALttP, except it's bi-directional. The Tune of Currents behaves like the Magic Mirror. And the Tune of Ages takes it a step further and is what ALttP would've been like if you could switch between realms at will. Those are the only two games in the series with the corresponding overworld mechanic.
Believe me, the only Zelda game that I really look down on is Zelda II, and I'll admit that I'm not giving it a fair chance, but I will eventually.
I used to be the same way, until about a month and a half ago. Trust me, once you spend some more time playing it, get over the idea of game overs being a bad thing (as long as they're in the right place), and sort of learn how to effectively do things, your outlook on it improves tremendously. It's definitely not my new favorite or anything, but I don't hate it anymore.
Edit: Got the last Stray Fairy in Snowhead exactly at Dawn of the Final Day. Finished off Goht by 8:30. I just have to go turn in the Stray Fairies and get my Powder Keg license and I'm done with this incredibly full three days.
Edit x2: Besides just getting to the temples and finishing them, I've also done the Deku Butler race, gotten both quiver upgrades at the shooting galleries, got the Giant Bomb Bag, and got Don Gero's Mask.
I have not quite (yet) beat Skyward Sword, but my observations so far as as follows:
- There is no night flight... BUT the core game is large enough that this is not an unfair omission.
- It seems to me that the inventory selection is smaller than Ocarina of Time (or Twilight Princess but I could be wrong) BUT the inventory that exists feels neither small nor incomplete.
- Scenery such as trees seems to have an asterisk sort of appearance while in flight or at a certain distance/angle (I noticed it while looking down from
the Great Tree
) BUT the visuals otherwise are really very good.
- The major areas are separated in a way that keeps the world from feeling whole and interconnected, BUT they are each very large in size and are dungeons in and of themselves so it doesn't feel confining.
- The story is FANTASTIC. Especially when you realize that aspects that you once took as new and unfamiliar are not unfamiliar at all. (I tried not to be spoilery.)
VERY SPOILERY VERSION:
I was awestruck when I realized that "Granny" is really Impa, and the Sealed Temple is actually [and suddenly (to me) noticeably recognizeable as] the real Temple of Time from the other games.
Nintendo has a way with masterfully combining the familiar with the new. There is just the right amount of familiar elements of this game which harken back to the other games, while also feeling entirely new, original and in no way rehashed. I was at one point nitpicking at certain aspects of the game, until I reached a point in the story and came to quickly realize that the game is so absolutely fantastic that its shortcomings are very easily forgivable.
You're in luck. Skyward Sword does not use this mechanic.
The item selection IS incredibly small in Skyward Sword compared to Twilight Princess, but when you consider the lack of "Items Link stows in his bag of infinite holding and forgets about" of which there is a very large number in Twilight Princess(Seriously, other than a few Heart Pieces, did anyone have a use for the Spinner outside of dungeons? Or the Dominion Rod?), the small item selection doesn't seem like a bad thing.
And the thing with the graphics blurring at a certain distance is both an artistic choice emulating impressionist paintings and a way to deal with the limitations of the Wii. Frankly, it still looks better than any Gamecube game, especially Twilight Princess.
And I completely agree with you on the story.
And I figured out that Grannie was Impa when I finally had the opportunity to closely examine their character models. Figured it out early enough that I was actually wanting to slap Link and Groose for being too dumb to figure it out.
However! Wouldn't the Silent Realm be considered a dual world mechanic?
Especially since the end-game almost slaps you in the face with the obvious fact that it's the Sacred Realm?
And one last thing. Despite Nintendo Power, IGN, and others comparing Groose to Biff Tannen, I find that a bit unfair. For one thing, Groose is a good person, in spite of his shortcomings in the opening parts of the game. And unlike Biff, he didn't try to rape the girl.
EDIT: One more last thing lol. I do remember the Spaceworld demo, and I agree, Nintendo should have been more careful about that, but I also think that people needed to realize that it was a tech demo, not a trailer. The same way people keep getting upset that Final Fantasy 7 hasn't been remade for PS3. Which is really unfair. Why aren't people upset that they never remade Final Fantasy 8 for PS2? Again, I have nothing against Twilight Princess's story or gameplay or setting. I just wish that the world had more in it. I mean, there's all these people in Hyrule Castle Town. Would it be too much to ask to see them leaving Castle Town in a wagon, taking goods to Kakariko Village and having to defend the wagons? I have the same sort of criticisms about Ocarina of Time, mind you. I was really, REALLY hoping that they'd let Link use his sword on horseback and throw some enemies in Hyrule Field in OoT3D, and that was disappointing that they didn't.
Zelda II: Side-scrolling combat/dungeons, no items, exp/level system, large use of magic. Easily the most "different" game in the series.
A Link to the Past: Light/Dark world mechanic, the likes of which I've only ever seen elsewhere in Metroid Prime 2.
Oracle of Ages/Oracle of Seasons: Game linking system.
Four Swords/Four Swords Adventures: Multiple Links.
Zelda 2's the red-headed step-child though. And the duel world-mechanic, without getting into the finer points. is in LttP OoT and TP as peeps said. I'd count it as standard fare at this point.
Oh, my first game was Links Awakening whilst we're on the subject, I was five years old at the time and I got it for Christmas along with a Game Boy. It kicked so much ass!
I don't get the mentally of this doesn't count or that doesn't count. They all count. Even the CD-i games, which you could argue are the most radical departure for the series yet.
I don't get the mentally of this doesn't count or that doesn't count. They all count. Even the CD-i games, which you could argue are the most radical departure for the series yet.
The CD-i games truly don't count because neither Nintendo, Miyamoto, or even Koji Kondo had anything to do with them. They were the unfortunate result of a deal with Phillips to make a CD-ROM drive for the Super Nintendo gone bad. They should never have been.
No. They count. Any game sold in stores with the title ZELDA with Link and Zelda involved counts as a Zelda game, whether you don't want to acknowledge the games or not.
No. They count. Any game sold in stores with the title ZELDA with Link and Zelda involved counts as a Zelda game, whether you don't want to acknowledge the games or not.
Considering that Nintendo themselves would rather forget about that unfortunate decision to let Phillips play around with(read: RAPE!!!) their characters, I would say that they don't count. Much the same way that the Star Wars Holiday Special doesn't count.
Considering that Nintendo themselves would rather forget about that unfortunate decision to let Phillips play around with(read: RAPE!!!) their characters, I would say that they don't count. Much the same way that the Star Wars Holiday Special doesn't count.
You can't make something not count just because it's bad. The Holiday Special does count.
You can totally make it not count if it wasn't created or overseen by the original creators, developers, and writers. The Holiday Special was created by George Lucas. That's different. The CD-i Zelda games were created without Nintendo's or Miyamoto's authorization or blessing, even though it was technically legal.
Glad to see so much Oracle love in this thread. Ages was my first Zelda game, too. I've always had a spot for them, and they're probably the games I replay the most often.
Zelda 2's the red-headed step-child though. And the duel world-mechanic, without getting into the finer points. is in LttP OoT and TP as peeps said. I'd count it as standard fare at this point.
I think dual world worked better in LttP, though. There were a lot more puzzles that completely depended on it, and you could do it pretty much anywhere at any time.
You can totally make it not count if it wasn't created or overseen by the original creators, developers, and writers. The Holiday Special was created by George Lucas. That's different. The CD-i Zelda games were created without Nintendo's or Miyamoto's authorization or blessing, even though it was technically legal.
Actually, no it wasn't. Lucas had nothing to do with the Holiday Special short of telling these guys, "Sure, you can use our characters for your Christmas thing." Pretty much exactly what Nintendo did. The only difference is that Lucas has pretty well stated that the Holiday Special was a terrible idea, whereas Nintendo just doesn't comment on the CD-i games.
Also, Lucas has reportedly stated that if he had the time and a sledgehammer, he would track down and destroy every copy of the Holiday Special.
I don't think Twilight Princess is nearly as good as the other games in the series, Am I alone on this?
Twilight Princess is good, but it does have some flaws. First off, the color palette is boring. They seemed to jump on the "Realistic graphics = brown!" wagon for the game. The character models varied from really good to weird. Link, Midna, Zelda, Ilia, Wolf Link, Agitha, Ganondorf, Zant, and the enemies had great character models. Most of the other random NPCs looked...kinda strange.
And before I even get into anything else, I have to say this. I liked the LOOK of the Master Sword they did for this game. What I hated was the fact that, despite the artwork with Link holding it, they increased the blade length way too much. The sword is now the length of freaking Anduril from the Lord of the Rings movies, with one major exception, that being the handle. The Master Sword is, at most, a hand-and-a-half long sword that can be wielded one handed. The sword should be no more than 38 inches overall, which is about how it was in Ocarina of Time. A good length. However, Twilight Princess? It seems to be about 42-44 inches in length. You can throw the "magic sword" crap at me all day long, but a sword with a fairly short handle and a long blade like that is going to be ridiculously off balance. I hated that they kept that for Skyward Sword, but what more can be done?
Now, getting on to the narrative. It's only after repeat playthroughs that you finally GET Zant. Some try to say he went through a change in character. I disagree. Zant was insane. Period. If you really pay attention, a LOT of his dialog ended with exclamation points. A calm, cool, collected individual doesn't do that. However, where they messed up with Zant was not giving the hint that he had a master until the last part of the game. It's only late in the game that you find out he's taking over Hyrule in service to his "god". This is something that irritated a lot of people since they were expecting Zant to be THE main villain. I personally liked that Ganondorf was merely using Zant as a pawn. Had shades of Agahnim to it.
Characters...this was the first game that I barely gave a crap about Zelda. Link had no connection with her. The only one that had any connection with her at all was Midna. This wasn't Link to the Past where Link was the only one to hear her and come save her or Ocarina of Time where they met as kids with a grand scheme to bring down big, bad Ganondorf. No. This Zelda was the ruler of Hyrule, Link was a farm-boy from a province south of Hyrule. He hadn't even left Ordon before at the beginning of the game. We have NO INCENTIVE to worry about Zelda. If not for the fact that, by showing concern for Epona she's also showing concern for Link's safety, I wouldn't have much incentive to worry about Ilia either. Link had a few great expressions in this game(such as the look on his face when you first meet Occoo), but beyond that, he's not very emotionally involved in his quest beyond Midna. Midna was a great character though, I really enjoyed her story.
Gameplay wise, it was Ocarina of Time. Unless you played it on the Wii, where it was Ocarina of Time with a waggle and cursor aiming. The items were...mostly useless after you finish the dungeon you get them in. The Gale Boomerang was cool. The Clawshot? Cool, though getting another one seemed rather...tacked on. Lots of bomb-bags in the game. I do like that you can stick bombs on arrows, but I miss the magic arrows. The Hawkeye isn't very useful. The Dominion Rod and Spinner are only useful for a couple of things outside of their respective dungeons. The only really awesome item that I hope makes a comeback is the Ball-and-Chain. That was great. The bosses were pretty cool, though fighting beast Ganon before Ganondorf was a little odd. And the ending was kind of a cop out. I felt robbed that Ganondorf basically died on his feet and Midna basically prevents her world and Hyrule from ever meeting again.
That's my view on Twilight Princess. That and it tried a little too hard to be Ocarina of Time instead of its own game. Oh, and the howling crap sucked. As did the wolf thing, if you really get down to it, especially with the tears thing. There was no challenge, unlike the tears in Skyward Sword.
I prefer to think of TP's palette as stylized. It's certainly more colourful, moody, and interesting than Call of Duty or something like that. I also liked how Ganondorf came afterward. I liked the feeling of having a different main villain for once. It gave it a breath of fresh air. But for me personally, I thought the reveal of Ganondorf was so fantastic that it made me appreciate it rather than force me to cry "cop-out". I also loved how Zant presented no evidence that he was insane until he was unmasked. It was a fantastic reveal for his character.
I prefer to think of TP's palette as stylized. It's certainly more colourful, moody, and interesting than Call of Duty or something like that. I also liked how Ganondorf came afterward. I liked the feeling of having a different main villain for once. It gave it a breath of fresh air. But for me personally, I thought the reveal of Ganondorf was so fantastic that it made me appreciate it rather than force me to cry "cop-out". I also loved how Zant presented no evidence that he was insane until he was unmasked. It was a fantastic reveal for his character.
I will agree to that. I still like how everyone and their dog was saying that Ocarina of Time had realistic, dark, and moody graphics. No, it was just limited by the N64 engine. If you look at the concept art, it's anything but realistic, dark, and moody. In fact, Zelda's never really been dark and moody. That's what I liked about Skyward Sword. It's art style reminds me so much of Link to the Past.
Fantastic game. Amazing story. Certainly there are
time travel-related
plot holes, but I'll leave them alone to (as a fan) nitpick at later.
Also, at the end when
Zelda asks Link "What are you going to do now?" I wondered if Link was going to later hook up with the Item Check girl, since in my game Link told her he loved her.
The story and gameplay blends just the right amount of new/original material with just the right amount of nostalgia, such that if the nostalgia bits are lost on new players, it doesn't at all detract from the experience.
The only negative thing I can say about the game is that at times it does show the Wii's limitations, such as not being HD (especially during cutscenes) and the lack of a seamless transition between flying around and walking around the town of Skyloft. Seriously, I would have enjoyed being able to fall directly into town without the action having to pause. Granted, such an ability would also require restructuring of certain in-town puzzles that are currently unsolvable without the right equipment.
You're determined not to like the game, Shodan. If you don't like 3D Zelda games, then you don't have to. But you also don't have to beat your point into the ground.
We get it. These aren't the droids you're looking for. Move along.
Comments
You know, you seem to go out of your way to hate on everything. And in a really annoying way. At least RatherDashing can be amusing at times.
Clearly, you can't read. I said "not in a good, nostalgic way". Also, 2D is a style of game, it doesn't have to feel like it was made 10 years ago to be 2D. Terraria doesn't feel 10 years old.
Thankfully, as soon as I finish Majora's Mask, I get to start the Oracle games, my sentimental favorites of the series. Not that I'm in any rush. I love Termina.
By 2D you overy clearly meant Zelda from ten years prior (wait that's not right, whatevz), let's not beat around the bush here. You want Link to the Past and Links Awakening. And when Nintendo does it you'll be waiting in the shadows to shout rehash.
A huge percentage of the great indie games coming out recently are 2D, and most of them don't feel like cheap, warmed over rehashes. If Nintendo basically just remade A Link to the Past and just swapped the sprites around and made a new world map and dungeons, I wouldn't be interested. I want games like Minish Cap, and Four Swords. Games that actually attempt to add worthwhile mechanics and ideas to the genre.
There's plenty of new and worthwhile ideas and mechanics in the new Zelda game, I haven't cleared it at all, but here's what i've encountered.
-Total combat overhaul
-Blurring between dungeon and overworld gameplay
-New items
-Reused items have all been given a new mechanic/slant
-'Classic' Zelda structure has been rejiggered
The general consensus is that it's a very strong Zelda title and that it's the first Zelda title in quite a while to stick its neck out and do new things. It's not radically different, but what Zelda game is really bar Majoras Mask? And if you wanted to be a grumpus you could say that was OoT all over again.
Anyhoo, everyone in this thread that played it bar you loved it, and it's a shame you couldn't enjoy it as much as the rest of us. I hope the next offering is something you can enjoy and be enthusiastic about.
Well, that and the so-bad-it's-good CD-i games, though I have memorized the dialogue of most of them. I wonder what's for DINNER?
Oh god, please do not speak of those abominations.
GuruGuru, even though I don't share your opinion on Ocarina of Time 3D, I do give you credit for your taste. The Oracle games were fantastic.
And I sure hope that future portable games either build on what Ocarina of Time 3D has done, or go back to 2D. Without the BS touch screen control. That's the one thing that keeps me from buying the two DS games. I find the idea of controlling Link by dragging him around the bottom screen very...uninteresting.
Zelda II: Side-scrolling combat/dungeons, no items, exp/level system, large use of magic. Easily the most "different" game in the series.
A Link to the Past: Light/Dark world mechanic, the likes of which I've only ever seen elsewhere in Metroid Prime 2.
Oracle of Ages/Oracle of Seasons: Game linking system.
Four Swords/Four Swords Adventures: Multiple Links.
And they didn't take the Pokeyman route. These were two separate, different mechanic and storyline, equally great games.
Also, Oracle of Ages was my very first Zelda title.
So it's night of the second day, and I just reached the Snowhead Temple. You might ask why it took me so long to reach the temple.
It's because I did Woodfall on the first day. Other than a couple quick trips to get Kamaro's Mask and the Bunny Hood, this is the first cycle in which I've left Clock Town.
Gotta ask, how exactly is that different from the Young Link/Adult Link worlds in Ocarina of Time or the Twilight Realm/Hyrule thing in Twilight Princess? Both seem to be directly riffing on that mechanic.
In Ocarina of Time, you have different equipment only available in either time period; and there are people you meet in the future who remember decisions you made in the past (eg. Guru-Guru). In LTTP, you can directly affect one world by interacting with the other, but no one from one side encounters you in the other (the boy with the flute is an illusion and doesn't count.)
In Twilight Princess, in twilit Hyrule you have no human-equippable items at all, and the twilit areas are only available for a limited period, as it it Link's job to restore them to normal. In Link to the Past, all items you obtain in the light world are available to you in the dark world once you obtain the Moon Pearl, and you are supposed to explore the dark world, not eliminate it (if/when it reverts to the Golden Land, that happens at the end of the game and is not seen.)
...I know what you're going to say. That they're still variations on a theme. Well, screw that. I don't agree. LTTP, OOT and TP are excellent games, and Nintendo did a wonderful job on all of them.
They may be variations on a theme. That was kind of the point I was trying to make. However, I am not deriding any of those games for that. All of them had strong gameplay and stories and characters, though I think Twilight Princess was trying too hard to be Ocarina of Time and to cater to the "OMG MUST HAVE REALZ GRAPHIX!!" crowd. Compared to other games, it just seemed very...drab, graphically.
Believe me, the only Zelda game that I really look down on is Zelda II, and I'll admit that I'm not giving it a fair chance, but I will eventually. Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks...might be worth the annoyance of the touch screen controls? Maybe? What do you guys think?
And no, I am NOT counting the CD-i abominations in the above statement. Those games should be wiped from the face of the Earth.
- There is no night flight... BUT the core game is large enough that this is not an unfair omission.
- It seems to me that the inventory selection is smaller than Ocarina of Time (or Twilight Princess but I could be wrong) BUT the inventory that exists feels neither small nor incomplete.
- Scenery such as trees seems to have an asterisk sort of appearance while in flight or at a certain distance/angle (I noticed it while looking down from
- The major areas are separated in a way that keeps the world from feeling whole and interconnected, BUT they are each very large in size and are dungeons in and of themselves so it doesn't feel confining.
- The story is FANTASTIC. Especially when you realize that aspects that you once took as new and unfamiliar are not unfamiliar at all. (I tried not to be spoilery.)
VERY SPOILERY VERSION:
Nintendo has a way with masterfully combining the familiar with the new. There is just the right amount of familiar elements of this game which harken back to the other games, while also feeling entirely new, original and in no way rehashed. I was at one point nitpicking at certain aspects of the game, until I reached a point in the story and came to quickly realize that the game is so absolutely fantastic that its shortcomings are very easily forgivable.
You're in luck. Skyward Sword does not use this mechanic.
Fans had been looking forward to Twilight Princess ever since the Spaceworld 2000 tech demo. The idea that one could play as a (then realistic) Adult Link, fighting Ganon with superior GameCube graphics was quite appealing. I like playing as an Adult Link. It was bad marketing to suddenly switch to the Wind Waker-style graphics after giving the fans this to look forward to. If Twilight Princess is reminiscent of Ocarina of Time, arguably one of the best video games of all time, then so be it.
No. I wouldn't call the time travel or the Twilight Realm weak by any means, but they're nowhere near as strong as in A Link to the Past/Echoes. In both of those games, you basically have two overworlds that correspond to each other and which can only be explored by making use of the differences between them and traveling back and forth. The overworlds have the same shape, but are in fact completely different from each other.
Ocarina of Time's time travel was just one overworld where certain things changed just a little bit when you traveled through time. There was only one location to switch between time periods, and unlike even Oracle of Ages, you didn't progress into new areas by traversing part of it in one time period, then part in another, and so on.
As for Twilight Princess, the Twilight covered areas of Hyrule weren't so much another world as they were sections of the game where you were locked in wolf form, and the Twilight Realm itself didn't correspond to Hyrule at all.
Call it riffing on the same mechanic if you must, but the only Zelda game that has explored the dual overworld concept as thoroughly as A Link to the Past is Oracle of Ages. The Tune of Echoes behaves like the Dark World warps in ALttP, except it's bi-directional. The Tune of Currents behaves like the Magic Mirror. And the Tune of Ages takes it a step further and is what ALttP would've been like if you could switch between realms at will. Those are the only two games in the series with the corresponding overworld mechanic.
I used to be the same way, until about a month and a half ago. Trust me, once you spend some more time playing it, get over the idea of game overs being a bad thing (as long as they're in the right place), and sort of learn how to effectively do things, your outlook on it improves tremendously. It's definitely not my new favorite or anything, but I don't hate it anymore.
Edit: Got the last Stray Fairy in Snowhead exactly at Dawn of the Final Day. Finished off Goht by 8:30. I just have to go turn in the Stray Fairies and get my Powder Keg license and I'm done with this incredibly full three days.
Edit x2: Besides just getting to the temples and finishing them, I've also done the Deku Butler race, gotten both quiver upgrades at the shooting galleries, got the Giant Bomb Bag, and got Don Gero's Mask.
The item selection IS incredibly small in Skyward Sword compared to Twilight Princess, but when you consider the lack of "Items Link stows in his bag of infinite holding and forgets about" of which there is a very large number in Twilight Princess(Seriously, other than a few Heart Pieces, did anyone have a use for the Spinner outside of dungeons? Or the Dominion Rod?), the small item selection doesn't seem like a bad thing.
And the thing with the graphics blurring at a certain distance is both an artistic choice emulating impressionist paintings and a way to deal with the limitations of the Wii. Frankly, it still looks better than any Gamecube game, especially Twilight Princess.
And I completely agree with you on the story.
However! Wouldn't the Silent Realm be considered a dual world mechanic?
And one last thing. Despite Nintendo Power, IGN, and others comparing Groose to Biff Tannen, I find that a bit unfair. For one thing, Groose is a good person, in spite of his shortcomings in the opening parts of the game. And unlike Biff, he didn't try to rape the girl.
EDIT: One more last thing lol. I do remember the Spaceworld demo, and I agree, Nintendo should have been more careful about that, but I also think that people needed to realize that it was a tech demo, not a trailer. The same way people keep getting upset that Final Fantasy 7 hasn't been remade for PS3. Which is really unfair. Why aren't people upset that they never remade Final Fantasy 8 for PS2? Again, I have nothing against Twilight Princess's story or gameplay or setting. I just wish that the world had more in it. I mean, there's all these people in Hyrule Castle Town. Would it be too much to ask to see them leaving Castle Town in a wagon, taking goods to Kakariko Village and having to defend the wagons? I have the same sort of criticisms about Ocarina of Time, mind you. I was really, REALLY hoping that they'd let Link use his sword on horseback and throw some enemies in Hyrule Field in OoT3D, and that was disappointing that they didn't.
Zelda 2's the red-headed step-child though. And the duel world-mechanic, without getting into the finer points. is in LttP OoT and TP as peeps said. I'd count it as standard fare at this point.
Oh, my first game was Links Awakening whilst we're on the subject, I was five years old at the time and I got it for Christmas along with a Game Boy. It kicked so much ass!
No no no, a MILLION TIMES NO!
Considering that Nintendo themselves would rather forget about that unfortunate decision to let Phillips play around with(read: RAPE!!!) their characters, I would say that they don't count. Much the same way that the Star Wars Holiday Special doesn't count.
You can't make something not count just because it's bad. The Holiday Special does count.
I think dual world worked better in LttP, though. There were a lot more puzzles that completely depended on it, and you could do it pretty much anywhere at any time.
Actually, no it wasn't. Lucas had nothing to do with the Holiday Special short of telling these guys, "Sure, you can use our characters for your Christmas thing." Pretty much exactly what Nintendo did. The only difference is that Lucas has pretty well stated that the Holiday Special was a terrible idea, whereas Nintendo just doesn't comment on the CD-i games.
Also, Lucas has reportedly stated that if he had the time and a sledgehammer, he would track down and destroy every copy of the Holiday Special.
Twilight Princess is good, but it does have some flaws. First off, the color palette is boring. They seemed to jump on the "Realistic graphics = brown!" wagon for the game. The character models varied from really good to weird. Link, Midna, Zelda, Ilia, Wolf Link, Agitha, Ganondorf, Zant, and the enemies had great character models. Most of the other random NPCs looked...kinda strange.
And before I even get into anything else, I have to say this. I liked the LOOK of the Master Sword they did for this game. What I hated was the fact that, despite the artwork with Link holding it, they increased the blade length way too much. The sword is now the length of freaking Anduril from the Lord of the Rings movies, with one major exception, that being the handle. The Master Sword is, at most, a hand-and-a-half long sword that can be wielded one handed. The sword should be no more than 38 inches overall, which is about how it was in Ocarina of Time. A good length. However, Twilight Princess? It seems to be about 42-44 inches in length. You can throw the "magic sword" crap at me all day long, but a sword with a fairly short handle and a long blade like that is going to be ridiculously off balance. I hated that they kept that for Skyward Sword, but what more can be done?
Now, getting on to the narrative. It's only after repeat playthroughs that you finally GET Zant. Some try to say he went through a change in character. I disagree. Zant was insane. Period. If you really pay attention, a LOT of his dialog ended with exclamation points. A calm, cool, collected individual doesn't do that. However, where they messed up with Zant was not giving the hint that he had a master until the last part of the game. It's only late in the game that you find out he's taking over Hyrule in service to his "god". This is something that irritated a lot of people since they were expecting Zant to be THE main villain. I personally liked that Ganondorf was merely using Zant as a pawn. Had shades of Agahnim to it.
Characters...this was the first game that I barely gave a crap about Zelda. Link had no connection with her. The only one that had any connection with her at all was Midna. This wasn't Link to the Past where Link was the only one to hear her and come save her or Ocarina of Time where they met as kids with a grand scheme to bring down big, bad Ganondorf. No. This Zelda was the ruler of Hyrule, Link was a farm-boy from a province south of Hyrule. He hadn't even left Ordon before at the beginning of the game. We have NO INCENTIVE to worry about Zelda. If not for the fact that, by showing concern for Epona she's also showing concern for Link's safety, I wouldn't have much incentive to worry about Ilia either. Link had a few great expressions in this game(such as the look on his face when you first meet Occoo), but beyond that, he's not very emotionally involved in his quest beyond Midna. Midna was a great character though, I really enjoyed her story.
Gameplay wise, it was Ocarina of Time. Unless you played it on the Wii, where it was Ocarina of Time with a waggle and cursor aiming. The items were...mostly useless after you finish the dungeon you get them in. The Gale Boomerang was cool. The Clawshot? Cool, though getting another one seemed rather...tacked on. Lots of bomb-bags in the game. I do like that you can stick bombs on arrows, but I miss the magic arrows. The Hawkeye isn't very useful. The Dominion Rod and Spinner are only useful for a couple of things outside of their respective dungeons. The only really awesome item that I hope makes a comeback is the Ball-and-Chain. That was great. The bosses were pretty cool, though fighting beast Ganon before Ganondorf was a little odd. And the ending was kind of a cop out. I felt robbed that Ganondorf basically died on his feet and Midna basically prevents her world and Hyrule from ever meeting again.
That's my view on Twilight Princess. That and it tried a little too hard to be Ocarina of Time instead of its own game. Oh, and the howling crap sucked. As did the wolf thing, if you really get down to it, especially with the tears thing. There was no challenge, unlike the tears in Skyward Sword.
I will agree to that. I still like how everyone and their dog was saying that Ocarina of Time had realistic, dark, and moody graphics. No, it was just limited by the N64 engine. If you look at the concept art, it's anything but realistic, dark, and moody. In fact, Zelda's never really been dark and moody. That's what I liked about Skyward Sword. It's art style reminds me so much of Link to the Past.
Fantastic game. Amazing story. Certainly there are
Also, at the end when
The story and gameplay blends just the right amount of new/original material with just the right amount of nostalgia, such that if the nostalgia bits are lost on new players, it doesn't at all detract from the experience.
The only negative thing I can say about the game is that at times it does show the Wii's limitations, such as not being HD (especially during cutscenes) and the lack of a seamless transition between flying around and walking around the town of Skyloft. Seriously, I would have enjoyed being able to fall directly into town without the action having to pause. Granted, such an ability would also require restructuring of certain in-town puzzles that are currently unsolvable without the right equipment.
We get it. These aren't the droids you're looking for. Move along.