I was with you on the first one, but the rest is some serious overkill.
I think its under kill. We need new users to have 2 forms of photo ID 6 references from friends and family and a £35 million deposit to stop them breaking any rule.
I was with you on the first one, but the rest is some serious overkill.
I'm honestly on the fence that we shouldn't make it impossible to register with free email accounts, like neoGAF does. It doesn't always keep the assholes out, but it definitely cuts the level of them significantly.
Keeping spambots out is no good if people can't get in.
GAF has 80,000+ members in total. We have 450,000+. Yet, thousands use GAF daily, but only hundreds use ours. Yes, it will cut the member size down, but it will keep it tighter and full of people who mostly act in a mature manner and want to be here.
Everyone should still have access to the support forum and games, but discussion boards might require more drastic guidelines? I'm really struggling on this one, because I'm trying to think of a solution that means more mature registering members but also a continual amount of personal freedom.
In my experience, if people really want to discuss something with a community, they'll go through a few guidelines.
Put it this way, if the forum required a ISP/paid for e-mail address, then I wouldn't be a member. I don't have an e-mail address like that anymore (well I probably have a sky one, but i haven't a clue what it is, and I'm not sifting through all my paperwork to find it).
I don't have a pay email either, nor do I have a standing ISP with the sheer crazy amount of travel I do. Since joining the forums, I have posted from Japan, South Korea, Mexico, and no less than 10 US states.
I appreciate the protest. These are just ideas, and all at once are probably not advised.
Still, those security measures are not unheard of, and I am sure that just the captcha and e-mail activation simply are not sufficient. 2K games forums do the 24 hour thing (IIRC, they send the activation e-mail one day after registration), and I guess that keeps a lot of the spambots, less mature people and flamers out. That was like a light bulb over my head when they informed me. The problem is, when you want support, you won't get it immediately - and you should.
We're fighting the same actual people getting back in day after day, they're posting the same crap over and over. Captcha and e-mail verification might hold the spambots halfway at bay. But the fact alone that they have advanced to more of a primary problem is ludicrous. The one-post-multi-account-flame/insult/disrupt wonders like in the TWD forum are the real problem. Keeping the forum as open as possible is a great thing, but as things stand, we need more walls up. The verification e-mail is not more than a red line to cross on the ground, but we don't even have that at the time.
Checking if an e-mail still is valid after a week is sensible. With sites like 10 minute e-mail, giving a fake one is as easy as giving a real one. And this really would be hassle-free. You click another activation link in, say, a month's time, and all's well.
The last point, if you will, is the overkill. Restricting the posts of new members, that signals a real lack of trust in the new member. Not a good thing. It would force new members to find correct threads to post in though, and we have a lot of long term members who still don't care to dig out an existing thread. It would demand a certain patience, and if I know one thing about the people we want out, it's that they don't possess an inch of it. The biggest assholes don't even go through the eight second "hassle" of registration, they just post on the blog. Maybe not this post restriction bit, but we need more hassle upon registration.
Well, these forums need to be stricter in some regard if you don't want it to be an absolute zoo anymore. The kid gloves need to come off.
I want us to be a zoo still. We've got a whole lot of very different characters under one roof, and that is a good thing. But you're probably right with the kid's gloves. Telltale has grown immensely, we can't still pretend that the community will essentially self regulate and moderators just have to post the occasional "let's all be nice to each other again" for things to run smooth. What I had to do in here in the last four months to keep this a halfway agreeable place literally breaks my heart. Scalpel's useless, so I broke out the axe. And let's be absolutely honest: Telltale's growth pains have probably only just begun. The situation will get worse before it gets better - hopefully with a catch of breath in Fables times.
CAPCHA and email verification are all fine and good for spambots, I agree.
I have to say the most interesting way to take care of getting rid of the one-post-and-scram flamers comes from Kingdom of Loathing.
You have to pass a spelling and grammar test. Not a hard one, mind you- even most of the forum members who don't speak English as a fist language could pass. But enough of a thing to annoy and dissuade those who abuse the system and make lots of fake accounts to spam.
Still, those security measures are not unheard of, and I am sure that just the captcha and e-mail activation simply are not sufficient.
I still say it's too much. And I don't know if you've noticed, Vain, but we already have something in place that restricts the actions of new users. If someone new posts a link or an image in one of their first few posts, that post is auto-moderated. That's why the system exists, so that questionable posts can be hidden from the larger forum until someone from the mod team can look it over and decide if it's legit or not. It's also why spambots have started putting the links in their signatures or registering and then coming back way later to post.
As for the people you've mentioned who get banned and then keep coming back under new accounts, maybe your system could be put into place for new accounts registered from an IP address that already has an account tied to it? It wouldn't help with proxies, but it would cut down on banned users making 50 accounts.
And why are we having this discussion in General Chat?
And why are we having this discussion in General Chat?
Because ye olde community occasionally resides here, whose opinions we value. We should just be careful not to speak about the usual stuff.
Out of the last 30 auto moderated threads I saw, 30 were spambots. That might not exactly be a representative sample, but it shows that these functions definitely do not catch what I see as the real problem. Auto moderation can only catch mechanically generated stuff with certainty.
We have already experienced that IP bans are completely useless for users who really want to go on our nerves. Also, I recently found out that a lot of countries and providers don't even attach fixed IPs. These guys get a new one every time they visit the site. Let's just say that my belief in IP-based solutions is at a very, very low point.
Ok that's it i'm convinced. TTG need to ether make the fourms more safer from spambots or start modding a few more people. There has been loads of spambots on tonight it's getting very very annoying now.
We deal with spambots as soon as we see them, and with as quickly as they get reported, they don't last long on here. More mods wouldn't help us catch them faster.
The mods were chosen from a variety of time zones so that we can be on when the Telltale staff can't be. Between us all, we have it pretty well covered.
The mods were chosen from a variety of time zones so that we can be on when the Telltale staff can't be. Between us all, we have it pretty well covered.
That the mods come from different time zones is, pretty much, coincidence. Not conscious choice. Had Telltale NOT attracted fans from all over the world, things would look very differently today.
But, yeah, I am impressed that some moderator always seems to be around. Heck, most of the time, the reaction to spam reports is a matter of minutes. Often when these mails JUST arrive in my inbox, I click on the direct link and the spam's already gone.
Still, if moderators were here to "remove spam", I wouldn't have volunteered in the first place. This is a fundamental fault of the present forum mechanics, and it needs to be taken care of quickly. The solution to problem "spambot" is definitely not "more mods". With the surge of new members and general forum heat increase, there are plenty of other problems to take care of, and these require more of a brain also.
Ok, considering the fact that Telltale's Sam and Max 25th anniversary blog post is spammed with "NO ONE CARES! WHERE'S EPISODE 4" Makes me think telltale mods should be able to delete posts from the blog/be able to IP ban people from it. So disrespectful.
Ok that's it i'm convinced. TTG need to ether make the fourms more safer from spambots or start modding
It's not like the spam bots hurt you and the spams usly gone faster then you can say "TTG IS COOLSOME" the only time it sticks is when mods arnt on but thats usly like 4 am my time.
Ok, considering the fact that Telltale's Sam and Max 25th anniversary blog post is spammed with "NO ONE CARES! WHERE'S EPISODE 4" Makes me think telltale mods should be able to delete posts from the blog/be able to IP ban people from it. So disrespectful.
Ok, considering the fact that Telltale's Sam and Max 25th anniversary blog post is spammed with "NO ONE CARES! WHERE'S EPISODE 4" Makes me think telltale mods should be able to delete posts from the blog/be able to IP ban people from it. So disrespectful.
I know,When i checked the comments on that blog post i was like ''You are joking me, You only got Episode 3 around a week/2 weeks ago!'' By the way to other posts A. I ment I didn't mean Mods were only here to remove spam, Also on this point i got a tip for spoting spambot users who have not made a post. Their usernames are usually a bunch of random letters. B. I would agree with Vainamoinen. It's not like TTG searched high and low around the fourms for people in certain time zones.
I'm not trying to say Mods are doing a bad job because they do great jobs and spam is usually gone in a few minutes or 20 minutes at the most. But it seems everyday more and more spambots are joining and the more spambots join, there will be more spam.
Back to your point Gman, I think TTG should do S&M Season 4, Tomi Season 2 (Or at least try to get a deal since i hear Lucasarts got a new person to be the boss.) W&G season 2, Strong Bad season 2 (He's been gone for around two years and a new Strong Bad season would be a great comeback) BTTF season 2 so we can find out what happens after the ''To Be Continued'' Part at the end, Then TWD season 2 just so then TTG won't have to keep hearing people going on and on about getting the next episode out as much, So at least people actually wait 1 month before saying ''Where's my episode 4!!!!!''
Comments
Oh yeah.
Well it's still better than spambots all the time.:(
I was with you on the first one, but the rest is some serious overkill.
I think its under kill. We need new users to have 2 forms of photo ID 6 references from friends and family and a £35 million deposit to stop them breaking any rule.
I'm honestly on the fence that we shouldn't make it impossible to register with free email accounts, like neoGAF does. It doesn't always keep the assholes out, but it definitely cuts the level of them significantly.
It does if we wana build a prison for spambots!
GAF has 80,000+ members in total. We have 450,000+. Yet, thousands use GAF daily, but only hundreds use ours. Yes, it will cut the member size down, but it will keep it tighter and full of people who mostly act in a mature manner and want to be here.
Everyone should still have access to the support forum and games, but discussion boards might require more drastic guidelines? I'm really struggling on this one, because I'm trying to think of a solution that means more mature registering members but also a continual amount of personal freedom.
In my experience, if people really want to discuss something with a community, they'll go through a few guidelines.
Still, those security measures are not unheard of, and I am sure that just the captcha and e-mail activation simply are not sufficient. 2K games forums do the 24 hour thing (IIRC, they send the activation e-mail one day after registration), and I guess that keeps a lot of the spambots, less mature people and flamers out. That was like a light bulb over my head when they informed me. The problem is, when you want support, you won't get it immediately - and you should.
We're fighting the same actual people getting back in day after day, they're posting the same crap over and over. Captcha and e-mail verification might hold the spambots halfway at bay. But the fact alone that they have advanced to more of a primary problem is ludicrous. The one-post-multi-account-flame/insult/disrupt wonders like in the TWD forum are the real problem. Keeping the forum as open as possible is a great thing, but as things stand, we need more walls up. The verification e-mail is not more than a red line to cross on the ground, but we don't even have that at the time.
Checking if an e-mail still is valid after a week is sensible. With sites like 10 minute e-mail, giving a fake one is as easy as giving a real one. And this really would be hassle-free. You click another activation link in, say, a month's time, and all's well.
The last point, if you will, is the overkill. Restricting the posts of new members, that signals a real lack of trust in the new member. Not a good thing. It would force new members to find correct threads to post in though, and we have a lot of long term members who still don't care to dig out an existing thread. It would demand a certain patience, and if I know one thing about the people we want out, it's that they don't possess an inch of it. The biggest assholes don't even go through the eight second "hassle" of registration, they just post on the blog. Maybe not this post restriction bit, but we need more hassle upon registration.
I want us to be a zoo still. We've got a whole lot of very different characters under one roof, and that is a good thing. But you're probably right with the kid's gloves. Telltale has grown immensely, we can't still pretend that the community will essentially self regulate and moderators just have to post the occasional "let's all be nice to each other again" for things to run smooth. What I had to do in here in the last four months to keep this a halfway agreeable place literally breaks my heart. Scalpel's useless, so I broke out the axe. And let's be absolutely honest: Telltale's growth pains have probably only just begun. The situation will get worse before it gets better - hopefully with a catch of breath in Fables times.
I have to say the most interesting way to take care of getting rid of the one-post-and-scram flamers comes from Kingdom of Loathing.
You have to pass a spelling and grammar test. Not a hard one, mind you- even most of the forum members who don't speak English as a fist language could pass. But enough of a thing to annoy and dissuade those who abuse the system and make lots of fake accounts to spam.
I still say it's too much. And I don't know if you've noticed, Vain, but we already have something in place that restricts the actions of new users. If someone new posts a link or an image in one of their first few posts, that post is auto-moderated. That's why the system exists, so that questionable posts can be hidden from the larger forum until someone from the mod team can look it over and decide if it's legit or not. It's also why spambots have started putting the links in their signatures or registering and then coming back way later to post.
As for the people you've mentioned who get banned and then keep coming back under new accounts, maybe your system could be put into place for new accounts registered from an IP address that already has an account tied to it? It wouldn't help with proxies, but it would cut down on banned users making 50 accounts.
And why are we having this discussion in General Chat?
Because ye olde community occasionally resides here, whose opinions we value. We should just be careful not to speak about the usual stuff.
Out of the last 30 auto moderated threads I saw, 30 were spambots. That might not exactly be a representative sample, but it shows that these functions definitely do not catch what I see as the real problem. Auto moderation can only catch mechanically generated stuff with certainty.
We have already experienced that IP bans are completely useless for users who really want to go on our nerves. Also, I recently found out that a lot of countries and providers don't even attach fixed IPs. These guys get a new one every time they visit the site. Let's just say that my belief in IP-based solutions is at a very, very low point.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mfFZ-1eUmE
The mods are what Telltale is doing about them.
Then you won't know about it.
That the mods come from different time zones is, pretty much, coincidence. Not conscious choice. Had Telltale NOT attracted fans from all over the world, things would look very differently today.
But, yeah, I am impressed that some moderator always seems to be around. Heck, most of the time, the reaction to spam reports is a matter of minutes. Often when these mails JUST arrive in my inbox, I click on the direct link and the spam's already gone.
Still, if moderators were here to "remove spam", I wouldn't have volunteered in the first place. This is a fundamental fault of the present forum mechanics, and it needs to be taken care of quickly. The solution to problem "spambot" is definitely not "more mods". With the surge of new members and general forum heat increase, there are plenty of other problems to take care of, and these require more of a brain also.
It's not like the spam bots hurt you and the spams usly gone faster then you can say "TTG IS COOLSOME" the only time it sticks is when mods arnt on but thats usly like 4 am my time.
I know,When i checked the comments on that blog post i was like ''You are joking me, You only got Episode 3 around a week/2 weeks ago!'' By the way to other posts A. I ment I didn't mean Mods were only here to remove spam, Also on this point i got a tip for spoting spambot users who have not made a post. Their usernames are usually a bunch of random letters. B. I would agree with Vainamoinen. It's not like TTG searched high and low around the fourms for people in certain time zones.
I'm not trying to say Mods are doing a bad job because they do great jobs and spam is usually gone in a few minutes or 20 minutes at the most. But it seems everyday more and more spambots are joining and the more spambots join, there will be more spam.
Back to your point Gman, I think TTG should do S&M Season 4, Tomi Season 2 (Or at least try to get a deal since i hear Lucasarts got a new person to be the boss.) W&G season 2, Strong Bad season 2 (He's been gone for around two years and a new Strong Bad season would be a great comeback) BTTF season 2 so we can find out what happens after the ''To Be Continued'' Part at the end, Then TWD season 2 just so then TTG won't have to keep hearing people going on and on about getting the next episode out as much, So at least people actually wait 1 month before saying ''Where's my episode 4!!!!!''
We do need something to stop the spambots. Beyond that, I think we're doing pretty good, all told.