I don't want to see walker Lilly, I want to see living Lilly, so I can fucking kill her slowly and painfully, that bitch is going regret every second she was alive after killing Carley when I find her, and that is the short answer.
Normally, if I meet a character I knew with a different protagonist, I do my best to try and roleplay it impartially, not allowing my past interactions to cloud my judgement... but I'll make an exception for Lilly. Oh I will.
Same here, if Vernon is still alive, I would roleplay that scene, but with Lilly she is just going to die, I have never hated a character as much as her, she is dead.
Eye iz knew, I didn't know this thread existed lololol
Lilly and Carley are both awesome it's a shame that everything went to shit in Episode 3, if only things had turned out differently.
You say that we can't knwo that Kenny saved us, and you're right. But at the same time, we don't know that Larry was alive. I was afraid he'd turn, so I helped Kenny. Do I feel bad? Yes, I do feel bad about Larry. That I helped when we didn't know if he was dead or not. Lilly still had no reason to shoot Carley, where Kenny may have had a reason to kill Larry.
If we blame the bandit raid on anyone, it can't be Kenny. Probably Ben for going behind our backs and not telling us about the deal, but Kenny fixed up the RV which allowed the group to escape. If he hadn't it's likely that no one would have made it out of the motor inn alive. And Lilly's reasoning went only as far as Larry. It was really him in charge if you think about it, because she never went against him. If she stepped out of line once with him, she was always quick to retract it. Kenny's no saint, but neither is Lilly.
And Carley/Doug's death is on Lilly, she pulled the trigger. No matter her mental state, she murdered them as much, if not more than Kenny murdered Larry. She's a danger to the group now. I personally would not let her back in, and I left her on that road without a second thought. She's no better than Kenny or Lee or anyone else. She even drives off with the RV and leaves you all stranded at the train if you take her with you after that. She straight up lies to you and says that she'll take you and Clem with her if you agree to leave in the RV, and then immediately drives away after you step out. Can't trust her any more than Kenny, or Ben, or Chuck, or anyone who isn't named Lee Everett.
Yes Lilly drives off with the RV but I think that scene and her motivations can be interpreted differently. Where some might see it as she lied to Lee about taking Lee and Clem along, I think it can also be seen as her not wanting Lee to abandon the group for her because of her mistakes, acknowledging that the group need him and that it would be selfish take Lee and Clem along. The group had a fighting chance if Lee was with them. That is how I perceived that scene.
Another way of looking at that scene, particularly if Lee didn't have a good relationship with Lilly is that she didn't believe him when he offers to leave with her. She may have thought it to be a trick and expected Lee to alert the others that she had escaped. Either way if Lilly wanted to she could have killed Lee when he was getting the pencil. She spared his life even in the scenario where Lee has helped Kenny kill her father. This tells me that she is not the stone cold killer some are making her out to be and the incident on the road with Carly/Doug would be best described as voluntary manslaughter. If you consider how that word is defined; “Voluntary manslaughter occurs when one person intends to kill another but does so suddenly and as a result of great personal distress. The Wrongdoer must have become very upset before the killing. (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=manslaughter)
In fact one of the case studies on the web page I enclosed in brackets explains; “A dad's son was kidnapped and murdered. The kidnapper was caught and confessed. The dad saw the kidnapper the next day in an interview and in sudden rage, the dad grabbed a revolver from a nearby officer and killed the kidnapper. The dad was charged with voluntary manslaughter.”
What Lilly did was in a moment of weakness. Rick had a similar break down due to stress, the difference is he had a better support network so he got through it and is probably the greatest leader in walking dead history. No one else has achieved what he has achieved. Where was Lilly’s support? She was ostracised and seen as a paranoid weirdo even by Ben who was really guilty of doing the things that she suspected, implied that Lilly was losing it and had far fetched assumptions.
Personally I did trust her more than Kenny because she could have killed Lee and had every reason to given that she believed the group were going to either abandon her or kill her but she chose not to when she took the RV. We forget that most people in the walking dead universe didn't have it easy living in cosy motor inn's most of the character we see in the comics and the novel lived on the road, living in portable tents. Lilly taking the RV was hardly a death sentence. Kenny on the other hand left Lee to die at the hand of Danny in the barn, at the hand of walkers in the drugstore and at the hand of Molly in ep4. In my playthrough Lilly didn't try and kill me once, mind you I didn't help Kenny slaughter her dad in front of her.
As a loyal Team Kennyist. That shit was different, yo.
Lilly's dad was dead. The rules were established that everyone is infected and will reanimate regardless. Plus he was an asshole. It seems to be a genetic trait.
With Duck's case, it was a one-off bite. The first time a major character has been bitten. While it's easy to write-off a random homeless looking girl surrounded by walkers. It's harder to kill a sick kid outright.
Larry's death wasn't confirmed before Kenny dropped the salt lick. They didn't know his condition any more than Rick's group knew Maggie's condition in the comics. Did they kill Maggie without trying to save her? No. They fought for her survival. Glenn was just as much at risk of her turning and biting him as Lilly was of Larry biting her. Had Rick not have stopped Abraham from shooting her Glenn would have probably reacted similar to the way Lilly reacted in the game. Rick has got to be the best example of good leadership in the walking dead when you consider how far he's come and what he has achieved and how he has maintained his humanity. When I play the game I consider what would Rick do. He definitely wouldn't have dropped a salt lick on Larry before reanimation..
Lily is rash and weak minded. She only cares for larry and herself. Why does anyone stick up for her? She gets mad when carly/glen saves a child in the streets. She flips out when someone is stealing even though she has been stealing for larry. She is so weak minded she cannot keep her shit together shoots doug/carly. Poor baby...you lost your daddy....cry me a river. Clem is 8 lost both parents and handles it better than lily. If you do not leave her she steals the RV. No reguard for the children she just left in the middle of nowhere. What if the train was busted then what? She would of basically killed everyone. I hope she dies a slow firery death.
It's not the fact that she lost her dad, it's more about how she lost her dad. Clem's parents weren't killed in front of her. Not only was Lilly’s dad killed in front of her she also believed he could have been saved. That changes everything. I'm pretty sure every character in the group would have snapped the way she had in her position, given the circumstances.
Larry wasn't even related to Kat but Kat learning how Kenny dealt with the meat locker situation contributed to her depression and her decision to take her own life. How much more devastating would the memory of those events be for Lilly? If Lilly was arrested pre apocalypse for her actions and tried in court she would be charged for voluntary manslaughter as opposed to murder and she wouldn’t need Johnnie Cochran. “Voluntary manslaughter occurs when one person intends to kill another but does so suddenly and as a result of great personal distress. The Wrongdoer must have become very upset before the killing. (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=manslaughter)
Cany you really deny that Lilly's actions meet that criteria?
But she still would be found guilty, and to me it was not man slaughter, it would have been "man slaugher" if she had shot Kenny, but the fact she shot Carley, someone that did nothing ageist Lilly, points to more then man slaughter.
Thing is the situation with Rick was they were not as in as much danger then Lee was in the meatlocker, it had to be done.
I thought about the difference in the 2 groups circumstances. Yes Larry was in an enclosed space and Maggie was in the forest but the similarity in both cases is the fact that Glenn was as close to Maggie's face as Lilly was to Larry's. Maggie could have turned and bitten Glenn just as easy as Larry could have bitten Lilly. The point is that they took the risk out of compassion. They were not willing to abandon their humanity and that was far further in the apocalypse than where episode 2 took place.
I have greater respect for Rick because his decision took a lot of courage, he was not rash and he coped well under the pressure. Kenny took the easy way out at the expense of Lilly’s feelings when he really didn’t need to. At least not before reanimation.
But with Rick choice, even if Maggie had turned, the whole group would still have been around, if Kenny had done nothing and Larry came back, the whole group would have died right there, there was more risks then just one life lost.
But she still would be found guilty, and to me it was not man slaughter, it would have been "man slaugher" if she had shot Kenny, but the fact she shot Carley, someone that did nothing ageist Lilly, points to more then man slaughter.
I know what you're saying, I thought the same as you until I researched and saw the various kinds of manslaughter. There is voluntary manslaughter which is the one I mentioned where the person intentionally kills someone in a blind rage, following a serious emotional distress, then there is involuntary which is the kind most are familiar with, when someone kills someone unknowingly or unintentionally.
I don't think anyone can deny that Lilly saw red, she was at breaking point and sadly Carly was the straw that broke the camel’s back. So she felt the brunt of her anger.
Though i still don't understand why the OP blames Carley aswell for the group's downfall . I understand his hatred for Kenny and Ben but i don't understand his hate for Carley and saying that she never did anything .
But with Rick choice, even if Maggie had turned, the whole group would still have been around, if Kenny had done nothing and Larry came back, the whole group would have died right there, there was more risks then just one life lost.
I meant the risk of Glenn being bitten being like the risk of Lilly being bitten. If Larry bit Lilly he wouldn't get a second chance to bite someone else, not with Kenny's trusty salt lick. Like-wise if Maggie bit Glenn she wouldn't get a chance to bite someone else with Abraham’s gun pointed in her direction. In both scenarios one person would have been bitten as a result of the risk of doing cpr if the people they were treating turned. I felt, like Rick that the risk was worth taking. That said I appreciate why some do not as we can’t all think the same way.
Wow, so if that bitch did that IRL it would be man slaughter, are Legal System really works well, I mean it's not like that bitch deserves death and not prison, fuck that shit.
Yes Lilly drives off with the RV but I think that scene and her motivations can be interpreted differently. Where some might see it as she lied to Lee about taking Lee and Clem along, I think it can also be seen as her not wanting Lee to abandon the group for her because of her mistakes, acknowledging that the group need him and that it would be selfish take Lee and Clem along. The group had a fighting chance if Lee was with them. That is how I perceived that scene.
Another way of looking at that scene, particularly if Lee didn't have a good relationship with Lilly is that she didn't believe him when he offers to leave with her. She may have thought it to be a trick and expected Lee to alert the others that she had escaped. Either way if Lilly wanted to she could have killed Lee when he was getting the pencil. She spared his life even in the scenario where Lee has helped Kenny kill her father. This tells me that she is not the stone cold killer some are making her out to be and the incident on the road with Carly/Doug would be best described as voluntary manslaughter. If you consider how that word is defined; “Voluntary manslaughter occurs when one person intends to kill another but does so suddenly and as a result of great personal distress. The Wrongdoer must have become very upset before the killing. (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=manslaughter)
In fact one of the case studies on the web page I enclosed in brackets explains; “A dad's son was kidnapped and murdered. The kidnapper was caught and confessed. The dad saw the kidnapper the next day in an interview and in sudden rage, the dad grabbed a revolver from a nearby officer and killed the kidnapper. The dad was charged with voluntary manslaughter.”
What Lilly did was in a moment of weakness. Rick had a similar break down due to stress, the difference is he had a better support network so he got through it and is probably the greatest leader in walking dead history. No one else has achieved what he has achieved. Where was Lilly’s support? She was ostracised and seen as a paranoid weirdo even by Ben who was really guilty of doing the things that she suspected, implied that Lilly was losing it and had far fetched assumptions.
Personally I did trust her more than Kenny because she could have killed Lee and had every reason to given that she believed the group were going to either abandon her or kill her but she chose not to when she took the RV. We forget that most people in the walking dead universe didn't have it easy living in cosy motor inn's most of the character we see in the comics and the novel lived on the road, living in portable tents. Lilly taking the RV was hardly a death sentence. Kenny on the other hand left Lee to die at the hand of Danny in the barn, at the hand of walkers in the drugstore and at the hand of Molly in ep4. In my playthrough Lilly didn't try and kill me once, mind you I didn't help Kenny slaughter her dad in front of her.
The scene with the RV CAN be interpreted differently, but I interpret it as Lilly abandoning Lee and Clem, even if they have done nothing but kiss her feet since Day 1. Why would she even ask Lee and Clem to come if she didn't want them to? That doesn't make any sense. She never intended to take them along, and peeled out with the group's only (at the time) mode of transportation. It's not that she wanted the group to have a fighting chance, it's that she just lied to Lee to put him in a position where he couldn't stop her from taking the RV. Why would she care about any of them? She never did before. We've never seen her interact with Katjaa or Duck, but she hated Kenny, so she probably didn't think too highly of his family. She didn't like Ben either, so why would she care what happens to a bunch of people she doesn't like? Save her dad or smash his head in, she leaves Lee and Co. for the walkers to save her own skin.
If you say that her killing of Carley or Doug should be considered manslaughter, why not Kenny's killing of Larry? He was under a great deal of stress, no doubt about it. He thought Larry was about to come back as a 6'4, 300 pound,, seriously pissed of dead guy. They were trapped in a room with no way out, no weapons, and Larry had stopped breathing. He was unresponsive. Travis/David had turned in less than a minute, and there was a group of cannibals outside with a rifle to his wife and child's heads, who were preparing to cut up the group for meat to be traded for fuel. Sounds like plenty of good reasons to be stressed and upset. If (and that's pretty big IF) you can consider Lilly shooting Carley/Doug manslaughter, by all rights so should Kenny's action's in the meat locker. If Lilly gets a moment of weakness, why not Kenny?
The reason she doesn't get a support network is because, basically, she's out of the group once she murders one of their own. I'm not exactly sure which point in the comic you're talking about, but if it's the one I think it is, it's different. She took the life of a group member who had been surviving with her for 3 and a half months for little to no reason at all.
The case study is also NOTHING like what happened in the game. The man who shot his son's kidnapped had good reason to: the kidnapper abducted his son, and he knew it. Carley/Doug did NOTHING to Lilly. She simply shot Carley because Carley called her a bitch. Carley never stole any supplies, never harmed her or Larry, or did anything to her to warrant so much as a slap to the face, let alone a bullet. Similarly, she ha no proof that Ben had done anything. It may have been a bit obvious he was guilty, as most people had figured it out, but nobody wanted to shoot him. Lilly even asked for votes. Lee, Doug/Carley, Kenny and Katjaa all vote to stop her inquisition because she is going way too far. Her actions are basically her saying : "I don't care what you think, this is MY group, we do what I say." She probably would have shot Ben in Doug's scenario if she had been given a few more seconds to recover from Doug's sacrifice. She had no proof that Carley, Doug, OR Ben had actually done anything to her. The kidnapper in the case study had confessed to the kidnapping. There was proof he had done it. You can't claim the same for Lilly.
The fact that she decides NOT to kill someone is hardly a point in her favor. The fact that she COULD but she DIDN'T means nothing. After returning from Crawford, Kenny could have pulled out his Glock, and blown Ben's brains across the manor walls, but he didn't. Guess that makes him a saint, huh? I, personally, wouldn't call the motor inn "cosy", as they had been attacked multiple times by bandits, and at any time Lee, Kenny, or anyone else going outside the walls could have had a bullet put through their heads. They were just outside of a large city, and under almost daily attacks by a group of heavily armed psychopaths with twice their numbers, at least. As for her taking the RV not being a death sentence.... how? Where was the group's food? Their water? What little they had if any was on the RV. Which Lilly stole. They had no good place to shelter for the night. They were in the middle of nowhere, and had no idea where to get any food or water. At the most, they had a box of animal crackers, and half a bottle of water for six people. They probably wouldn't have lasted the night. Face it. She leaves Lee and Clem to die, no matter what you've done for her up to that point. If she had a gun, she would have shoved it in your face and demanded that you get off the RV. Say what you will about Kenny, even if he leaves you to die, he will never pull out a gun and shoot you in the back of the head if he hates you. Wish we could say the same for Lilly.
Hey Rock , considering Yami is not here . Why do you think he hates Carley and says that she never did anything . I mean i can understand his hatred for Kenny and Ben but Carley i don't understand .
Kenny hate is understandable, does not mean I like it but I get it, like for Lilly boggles my mind, and hate for Carley is insane, it's like those people that bought the War Z, it sucks but they believe it's good, and I do not understand how that is even possible, that is how I see liking Lilly over Carley.
Kenny hate is understandable, does not mean I like it but I get it, like for Lilly boggles my mind, and hate for Carley is insane, it's like those people that bought the War Z, it sucks but they believe it's good, and I do not understand how that is even possible, that is how I see liking Lilly over Carley.
Maybe it's because Carley is always the one who saves Lee and not Lilly . The OP also said that he thought that Carley is the traitor and that she was flirting with Lee just to distract him .
Which makes no sense, there was never one moment were Carley was not trusting and faithful and nice, so how anyone could come to that conclusion while Ben is panicking is beyond me.
Which makes no sense, there was never one moment were Carley was not trusting and faithful and nice, so how anyone could come to that conclusion while Ben is panicking is beyond me.
Well OP thought that Ben is stupid to do such a thing and he thought that Carley was playing the " good girl " just to get on everybody side and distract them so than no one can think that she did it . Just check his posts and you will see what I mean .
Well, Carley was undeniably a better person than Lilly, but to be honest I liked Lilly's character much more. As a character, Lilly stirred up so many emotions like affection, pity, anger and disappointment and you can't deny that the game wouldn't have been the same without her.
Carley, on the other hand, kinda bored me as a character. Everyone complains that Molly is unrealistic, but I found Carley's lack of flaws a lot more jarring. I get that there are people out there who are perfect, saint-like, heroic etc, but in a game where every other character has relevant and interesting flaws, I just couldn't help rolling my eyes every time Carley saved the day again.
Characters like Kenny, Lilly, Ben, had pros that brought me to care about them, and flaws that I wanted them to overcome. Even Clem has her moments of weakness that made me worry about her well-being. Carley literally does no wrong, and she's right about everything all the time. Name one flaw she has.
I don't know, maybe I just irrationally resent how flawless she was, especially compared to everyone else.:D
Well, Carley was undeniably a better person than Lilly, but to be honest I liked Lilly's character much more. As a character, Lilly stirred up so many emotions like affection, pity, anger and disappointment and you can't deny that the game wouldn't have been the same without her.
Carley, on the other hand, kinda bored me as a character. Everyone complains that Molly is unrealistic, but I found Carley's lack of flaws a lot more jarring. I get that there are people out there who are perfect, saint-like, heroic etc, but in a game where every other character has relevant and interesting flaws, I just couldn't help rolling my eyes every time Carley saved the day again.
Characters like Kenny, Lilly, Ben, had pros that brought me to care about them, and flaws that I wanted them to overcome. Even Clem has her moments of weakness that made me worry about her well-being. Carley literally does no wrong, and she's right about everything all the time. Name one flaw she has.
I don't know, maybe I just irrationally resent how flawless she was, especially compared to everyone else.:D
You can say the same thing about Doug aswell because he has no flaws .
Also she does have one flaw . Batteries if you forgot .
I will name a flaw right now, batteries, now that is a flaw if I have ever seen one, and she could be seen as to trusting toward people, I have no idea what you mean by Lilly is better then Carley.
I will name a flaw right now, batteries, now that is a flaw if I have ever seen one, and she could be seen as to trusting toward people, I have no idea what you mean by Lilly is better then Carley.
I will name a flaw right now, batteries, now that is a flaw if I have ever seen one, and she could be seen as to trusting toward people, I have no idea what you mean by Lilly is better then Carley.
Batteries. Wow. What an amazing, fascinating flaw.:D
Lilly is crazy, Kenny's loves his family to a fault, Doug has serious self-esteem issues, Molly can't depend on others...and Carley can't use batteries.
And I was just saying Lilly was a much more interesting character that evoked a lot of emotions, which was really the point of TWD. Your intense hatred for her proves that she did her job well.
Well, I agree that the others were more interesting as characters because of their flaws, but it WAS always nice to have Carley to fall back on, since she could always be counted on.
You can say the same thing about Doug aswell because he has no flaws .
Also she does have one flaw . Batteries if you forgot .
A flaw that never comes in to play or has any relevance to the character or story.
And Doug was awesome but still had plenty of flaws. He was heroic, loyal, and compassionate, but he was also self-depreciative and had no confidence. His weaknesses made me care about him and relate with him, and I wanted to help him to overcome those flaws.
Just because they did such a good job making me hate Lilly does not mean her character is better, for the record she is more flawless then most other characters, but since she is dead that kind of says there was a flaw somewhere.
Well, I agree that the others were more interesting as characters because of their flaws, but it WAS always nice to have Carley to fall back on, since she could always be counted on.
Fair enough. I can understand that people love Carley because she could always be depended on. But then, I felt like I could always depend on Doug just as much, and Christa as well post-ep 4.
Just because they did such a good job making me hate Lilly does not mean her character is better, for the record she is more flawless then most other characters, but since she is dead that kind of says there was a flaw somewhere.
Fair enough. I can understand that people love Carley because she could always be depended on. But then, I felt like I could always depend on Doug just as much, and Christa as well post-ep 4.
Christa, huh? I can't say I felt the same way about her, even after she came with me to help Clem. She and Omid are good people, no doubt, but there was just something not quite right. She and Omid never felt like real group members to me, like Kenny and Ben did. They just seemed to be along for the ride, but maybe I feel like that because they weren't at the motel with us.
Christa, huh? I can't say I felt the same way about her, even after she came with me to help Clem. She and Omid are good people, no doubt, but there was just something not quite right. She and Omid never felt like real group members to me, like Kenny and Ben did. They just seemed to be along for the ride, but maybe I feel like that because they weren't at the motel with us.
Well, I noticed that starting from ep.5. Christa becomes a lot more involved with the group. She co-leads the group with Lee quite well, giving orders and suggestions while Kenny panics about his stolen boat. After being stuck with the two worst leaders in the world for so long, I definitely appreciated someone as level-headed as Christa.
I meant Carley, not Lilly, if I ever said that then by all means I hand you the pistol, you do the honors, but that day has not happened, but it is fun to see your reaction to that, it almost made it worth it, and this forums needs a gladiator arena, to settle disputes.
Comments
Normally, if I meet a character I knew with a different protagonist, I do my best to try and roleplay it impartially, not allowing my past interactions to cloud my judgement... but I'll make an exception for Lilly. Oh I will.
Lilly and Carley are both awesome it's a shame that everything went to shit in Episode 3, if only things had turned out differently.
TeemLili4Life #yolo #meatlockerneverforget
Another way of looking at that scene, particularly if Lee didn't have a good relationship with Lilly is that she didn't believe him when he offers to leave with her. She may have thought it to be a trick and expected Lee to alert the others that she had escaped. Either way if Lilly wanted to she could have killed Lee when he was getting the pencil. She spared his life even in the scenario where Lee has helped Kenny kill her father. This tells me that she is not the stone cold killer some are making her out to be and the incident on the road with Carly/Doug would be best described as voluntary manslaughter. If you consider how that word is defined; “Voluntary manslaughter occurs when one person intends to kill another but does so suddenly and as a result of great personal distress. The Wrongdoer must have become very upset before the killing. (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=manslaughter)
In fact one of the case studies on the web page I enclosed in brackets explains; “A dad's son was kidnapped and murdered. The kidnapper was caught and confessed. The dad saw the kidnapper the next day in an interview and in sudden rage, the dad grabbed a revolver from a nearby officer and killed the kidnapper. The dad was charged with voluntary manslaughter.”
What Lilly did was in a moment of weakness. Rick had a similar break down due to stress, the difference is he had a better support network so he got through it and is probably the greatest leader in walking dead history. No one else has achieved what he has achieved. Where was Lilly’s support? She was ostracised and seen as a paranoid weirdo even by Ben who was really guilty of doing the things that she suspected, implied that Lilly was losing it and had far fetched assumptions.
Personally I did trust her more than Kenny because she could have killed Lee and had every reason to given that she believed the group were going to either abandon her or kill her but she chose not to when she took the RV. We forget that most people in the walking dead universe didn't have it easy living in cosy motor inn's most of the character we see in the comics and the novel lived on the road, living in portable tents. Lilly taking the RV was hardly a death sentence. Kenny on the other hand left Lee to die at the hand of Danny in the barn, at the hand of walkers in the drugstore and at the hand of Molly in ep4. In my playthrough Lilly didn't try and kill me once, mind you I didn't help Kenny slaughter her dad in front of her.
Larry wasn't even related to Kat but Kat learning how Kenny dealt with the meat locker situation contributed to her depression and her decision to take her own life. How much more devastating would the memory of those events be for Lilly? If Lilly was arrested pre apocalypse for her actions and tried in court she would be charged for voluntary manslaughter as opposed to murder and she wouldn’t need Johnnie Cochran. “Voluntary manslaughter occurs when one person intends to kill another but does so suddenly and as a result of great personal distress. The Wrongdoer must have become very upset before the killing. (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=manslaughter)
Cany you really deny that Lilly's actions meet that criteria?
I have greater respect for Rick because his decision took a lot of courage, he was not rash and he coped well under the pressure. Kenny took the easy way out at the expense of Lilly’s feelings when he really didn’t need to. At least not before reanimation.
I don't think anyone can deny that Lilly saw red, she was at breaking point and sadly Carly was the straw that broke the camel’s back. So she felt the brunt of her anger.
The scene with the RV CAN be interpreted differently, but I interpret it as Lilly abandoning Lee and Clem, even if they have done nothing but kiss her feet since Day 1. Why would she even ask Lee and Clem to come if she didn't want them to? That doesn't make any sense. She never intended to take them along, and peeled out with the group's only (at the time) mode of transportation. It's not that she wanted the group to have a fighting chance, it's that she just lied to Lee to put him in a position where he couldn't stop her from taking the RV. Why would she care about any of them? She never did before. We've never seen her interact with Katjaa or Duck, but she hated Kenny, so she probably didn't think too highly of his family. She didn't like Ben either, so why would she care what happens to a bunch of people she doesn't like? Save her dad or smash his head in, she leaves Lee and Co. for the walkers to save her own skin.
If you say that her killing of Carley or Doug should be considered manslaughter, why not Kenny's killing of Larry? He was under a great deal of stress, no doubt about it. He thought Larry was about to come back as a 6'4, 300 pound,, seriously pissed of dead guy. They were trapped in a room with no way out, no weapons, and Larry had stopped breathing. He was unresponsive. Travis/David had turned in less than a minute, and there was a group of cannibals outside with a rifle to his wife and child's heads, who were preparing to cut up the group for meat to be traded for fuel. Sounds like plenty of good reasons to be stressed and upset. If (and that's pretty big IF) you can consider Lilly shooting Carley/Doug manslaughter, by all rights so should Kenny's action's in the meat locker. If Lilly gets a moment of weakness, why not Kenny?
The reason she doesn't get a support network is because, basically, she's out of the group once she murders one of their own. I'm not exactly sure which point in the comic you're talking about, but if it's the one I think it is, it's different. She took the life of a group member who had been surviving with her for 3 and a half months for little to no reason at all.
The case study is also NOTHING like what happened in the game. The man who shot his son's kidnapped had good reason to: the kidnapper abducted his son, and he knew it. Carley/Doug did NOTHING to Lilly. She simply shot Carley because Carley called her a bitch. Carley never stole any supplies, never harmed her or Larry, or did anything to her to warrant so much as a slap to the face, let alone a bullet. Similarly, she ha no proof that Ben had done anything. It may have been a bit obvious he was guilty, as most people had figured it out, but nobody wanted to shoot him. Lilly even asked for votes. Lee, Doug/Carley, Kenny and Katjaa all vote to stop her inquisition because she is going way too far. Her actions are basically her saying : "I don't care what you think, this is MY group, we do what I say." She probably would have shot Ben in Doug's scenario if she had been given a few more seconds to recover from Doug's sacrifice. She had no proof that Carley, Doug, OR Ben had actually done anything to her. The kidnapper in the case study had confessed to the kidnapping. There was proof he had done it. You can't claim the same for Lilly.
The fact that she decides NOT to kill someone is hardly a point in her favor. The fact that she COULD but she DIDN'T means nothing. After returning from Crawford, Kenny could have pulled out his Glock, and blown Ben's brains across the manor walls, but he didn't. Guess that makes him a saint, huh? I, personally, wouldn't call the motor inn "cosy", as they had been attacked multiple times by bandits, and at any time Lee, Kenny, or anyone else going outside the walls could have had a bullet put through their heads. They were just outside of a large city, and under almost daily attacks by a group of heavily armed psychopaths with twice their numbers, at least. As for her taking the RV not being a death sentence.... how? Where was the group's food? Their water? What little they had if any was on the RV. Which Lilly stole. They had no good place to shelter for the night. They were in the middle of nowhere, and had no idea where to get any food or water. At the most, they had a box of animal crackers, and half a bottle of water for six people. They probably wouldn't have lasted the night. Face it. She leaves Lee and Clem to die, no matter what you've done for her up to that point. If she had a gun, she would have shoved it in your face and demanded that you get off the RV. Say what you will about Kenny, even if he leaves you to die, he will never pull out a gun and shoot you in the back of the head if he hates you. Wish we could say the same for Lilly.
Maybe it's because Carley is always the one who saves Lee and not Lilly . The OP also said that he thought that Carley is the traitor and that she was flirting with Lee just to distract him .
Well OP thought that Ben is stupid to do such a thing and he thought that Carley was playing the " good girl " just to get on everybody side and distract them so than no one can think that she did it . Just check his posts and you will see what I mean .
Carley, on the other hand, kinda bored me as a character. Everyone complains that Molly is unrealistic, but I found Carley's lack of flaws a lot more jarring. I get that there are people out there who are perfect, saint-like, heroic etc, but in a game where every other character has relevant and interesting flaws, I just couldn't help rolling my eyes every time Carley saved the day again.
Characters like Kenny, Lilly, Ben, had pros that brought me to care about them, and flaws that I wanted them to overcome. Even Clem has her moments of weakness that made me worry about her well-being. Carley literally does no wrong, and she's right about everything all the time. Name one flaw she has.
I don't know, maybe I just irrationally resent how flawless she was, especially compared to everyone else.:D
You can say the same thing about Doug aswell because he has no flaws .
Also she does have one flaw . Batteries if you forgot .
So did you check Yamiraziel's posts Bio ?
Batteries. Wow. What an amazing, fascinating flaw.:D
Lilly is crazy, Kenny's loves his family to a fault, Doug has serious self-esteem issues, Molly can't depend on others...and Carley can't use batteries.
And I was just saying Lilly was a much more interesting character that evoked a lot of emotions, which was really the point of TWD. Your intense hatred for her proves that she did her job well.
A flaw that never comes in to play or has any relevance to the character or story.
And Doug was awesome but still had plenty of flaws. He was heroic, loyal, and compassionate, but he was also self-depreciative and had no confidence. His weaknesses made me care about him and relate with him, and I wanted to help him to overcome those flaws.
Definietly I'll be tracking this thread.
Fair enough. I can understand that people love Carley because she could always be depended on. But then, I felt like I could always depend on Doug just as much, and Christa as well post-ep 4.
Lilly...flawless
Does not compute...please elaborate.
Christa, huh? I can't say I felt the same way about her, even after she came with me to help Clem. She and Omid are good people, no doubt, but there was just something not quite right. She and Omid never felt like real group members to me, like Kenny and Ben did. They just seemed to be along for the ride, but maybe I feel like that because they weren't at the motel with us.
Well, I noticed that starting from ep.5. Christa becomes a lot more involved with the group. She co-leads the group with Lee quite well, giving orders and suggestions while Kenny panics about his stolen boat. After being stuck with the two worst leaders in the world for so long, I definitely appreciated someone as level-headed as Christa.