The vaccine is hope for mankind you know... people will still die without being bitten. People who survive alone and starve, or dehydrate, or take a bad fall, or get sick, or bleed to death. Plenty of people are going to die from non-walker related injuries. If they're born without the ability to come back unless bitten, then it means that in time, if humanity DOES overcome the walkers and begins to rebuild, the chances of the apocalypse happening again greatly diminish. Hell, overcoming the walkers may even be easier further down the line, because you won't have to worry about your best friend turning if he dies from a cold, or if he bleeds out and turns when you ahve your back to him. While a vaccine may not do much in the short run, if you look at the big picture, saving Clem is just selfish as hell. I don't believe that Lee and Clem are worth more than an entire species.
There are only one ampule vaccine, but it can be copied if there is the necessary equipment. If pregnant woman will injecting vaccine to her stomach at five's month of pregnancy, then her child will be uninfected forever, if he dies he will not turn, but bite is still deadly.
If it can be copied, it can be recreated. A small vial lost is nothing. I understand how to apply a vaccine, but how will these women get to it? It's still a zombie apocalypse out there. Communications are down. Travel is dangerous, doubly so for pregnant women. How will they even hear about it? This vaccine won't do anything. Saving Clementine will will do wonders, even if it is only in a small scope of the world.
Like I said, if all it does is prevent a dead person from turning, then it's not worth losing someone you care for (Clementine) in order to save it. A hammer will prevent a dead person from turning just as well, only messier. I can deal with a mess. If it doesn't end the zombie apocalypse, I'm not even gonna entertain the thought of sacrificing someone.
If it can be copied, it can be recreated. A small vial lost is nothing. I understand how to apply a vaccine, but how will these women get to it? It's still a zombie apocalypse out there. Communications are down. Travel is dangerous, doubly so for pregnant women. How will they even hear about it?
If the vaccine will get in a place like Woodbery (read comics) and if this place would has a lab with necessary equipment then there are all the chances to restore civilization one hundred years later, maybe early. Vaccine can't be recreated because the scientists who knows the formula died when horde of walkers attacked military base.
If the vaccine will get in a place like Woodbery (read comics) and if this place would has a lab with necessary equipment then there are all the chances to restore civilization one hundred years later, maybe early. Vaccine can't be recreated because the scientists who knows the formula died when horde of walkers attacked military base.
Why would you do this to our poor souls anyway...? :c
I still the vaccine is a pipe dream. Save Clem. Hell, if this would really happen, and I play the main character who has impregnated a woman, I'd choose my pregnant woman over clem, but when it says: "Clem or the vaccine, which does that my child doesn't turn, when it dies, but doesn't protect it from the virus at all", I'd always pick clem.
"Clem or the vaccine, which does that my child doesn't turn, when it dies, but doesn't protect it from the virus at all", I'd always pick clem.
This is how vaccine works. Did you thought that the vaccine can be sprayed from aircraft for the whole country and all instantly healed? No, the process of the healing of humankind takes a lot of time.
If the vaccine will get in a place like Woodbery (read comics) and if this place would has a lab with necessary equipment then there are all the chances to restore civilization one hundred years later, maybe early. Vaccine can't be recreated because the scientists who knows the formula died when horde of walkers attacked military base.
Again, HOW? Even if Woodbury has the vaccine (I have read the comic recently), how is it going to reach other people? There are still billions of zombies out there. It doesn't matter if a small child who dies doesn't get back up. There are billions of other zombies out there already eating anything they find. They are the problem, not the remaining population turning into more. The lore of the comics/game already has a way to prevent people from turning, so we don't need some fancy vaccine to survive. It's better to prevent people from dying in the first place, which your vaccine doesn't do.
Again, HOW? Even if Woodbury has the vaccine (I have read the comic recently), how is it going to reach other people? There are still billions of zombies out there. It doesn't matter if a small child who dies doesn't get back up. There are billions of other zombies out there already eating anything they find. They are the problem, not the remaining population turning into more. The lore of the comics/game already has a way to prevent people from turning, so we don't need some fancy vaccine to survive. It's better to prevent people from dying in the first place, which your vaccine doesn't do.
I mean place AS a Woodbery, with lab. Place who well guarded, where many people lives, their childrens who will vaccination can begin to rebuild civilization.
How would the vaccine make that any different? All it does is prevent someone from becoming a zombie, which is just as easily accomplished with a hammer. It doesn't eliminate all the existing ones (which greatly outnumber the living). It doesn't prevent bites from killing. So how would a pocket-sized vial of a vaccine that only stops you from becoming a zombie after death be able to save anyone?
How would word of the vaccine get out?
How many doses are there?
How would every woman who is pregnant be able to get a hold of it?
This vaccine just wouldn't fix anything. However, Clementine alone could probably prevent more zombies than a tiny vial could.
HOW? Given the chance, there are laboratorys who could reproduce this stuff. Who says, you have the right specialists? Who says you have the right resoruces. Who says, you have enough time to craft it?
And even if you just have that one vaccine and give it to the first pregnant woman you find, her child wouldn't be able to reanimate by simply dying and maybe her child and every child her childs make. It would take half a millenia to repopulate the world with non-infected humans.
Try to open a window or door in the plane who already flying, and then you will understand why.
We're talking about a 60 pound girl for fucks sake... I don't know your physique, but for someone well built, 60 pounds + air pressure/wind is nothing, even before you factor in adrenaline that allows a normal person to lift a fucking 2-ton car. If the force isn't enough to break her thin little girl arm, it isn't enough to keep me from pulling her in.
I mean place AS a Woodbery, with lab. Place who well guarded, where many people lives, their childrens who will vaccination can begin to rebuild civilization.
That can be done just as easily, maybe even more so, without the vaccine. We already have a means of preventing a person from turning. With time, it will become little more than a routine procedure when someone dies.
As I said in my other posts, it doesn't matter if you can prevent new ones from forming when the zombies outnumber the living to such an extent. You are still living in constant fear that there will be one that sneaks up on you, you get surrounded, you mistake one for dead or one gets in your camp while you sleep. That is the threat of the zombie apocalypse. Once it hits a certain point, trying to kill them all is just a pipe dream.
The convenience of not having to destroy the brain when someone dies is not worth the life of someone with so much potential. Now, had you said you had a means to kill all zombies across the globe at once, then I'd start considering it, but that's just not gonna happen.
Sorry to be so forward with all of this. I just really like Clementine as a character that much. I hope I'm not being rude, or coming across as angry. I'll admit I'm probably being overly passionate over a video game character. I've said my piece, so if I'm bothering you or hijacking your thread, please say something and I'll back off.
Without the cure you'll lose more loved ones anyway, including the one you saved.
That has always been the way life is. Weather it be from old age, natural causes, cancer, murder, or walkers. Death is death. The only difference in TWD universe is after you die you reanimate. So why sacrifice an innocent girl you love?
Sorry to be so forward with all of this. I just really like Clementine as a character that much. I hope I'm not being rude, or coming across as angry. I'll admit I'm probably being overly passionate over a video game character. I've said my piece, so if I'm bothering you or hijacking your thread, please say something and I'll back off.
Don't apologize, it's good that you have protected your opinion, I created this topic to let people explains their decisions.
"Ampoule with vaccine are falling out of your pocket. *Time slows down* ( as like drugstore when you must choose Carley or Doug). *sad music starts*"
I started laughing at this part. Please, go in more depth with this.
Anyways, I would rather save the mankind. But that's because I don't have the choice to save both.
The way this Zombie infection works a Vaccine is the next to useless
People become walkers when they die and most people don't die from the infection and it is more likely to be a waste of a life
The vaccine will never be used and the hoards of existing walkers will never die
A vaccine is basically useless because basically zombies will still rip apart vaccinated children making it completely pointless
Don't apologize, it's good that you have protected your opinion, I created this topic to let people explains their decisions.
Oh, I'm not apologizing for supporting my opinion. It's just that I have been known to get a bit rude when I get into arguments on forums from time to time. It usually happens when I fall for troll bait. That doesn't apply to this topic. It's a legit discussion. I just wanted to clear the air a bit, you know? Let people know that there's no hard feelings over a disagreement. Sometimes I just don't make that clear.
That has always been the way life is. Weather it be from old age, natural causes, cancer, murder, or walkers. Death is death. The only difference in TWD universe is after you die you reanimate. So why sacrifice an innocent girl you love?
Are you serious? People are dying 50+ years earlier than they would otherwise. I don't care if it's my damn brother, I'm not risking the extinction of the human race for 1 person. Especially one who may very well just die the next day. Hopefully you're never put in charge of anything important.
The vacine with each post becomes more and more useless.
IMHO, u should have put on scales Clem and real fate of manking to make choice harder. It reminds me of an old question «Does the tear of a child worth a piece in whole world?»
I don't care if it's my damn brother, I'm not risking the extinction of the human race for 1 person.
If it is family or a good friend of yours, sure you will, could you look your own brother in the eyes and let him go, well knowing he'll die and become a walker? No you couldn't or you'd have to be damn heartless. This little vaccine won't prevent the human race from extinction, the walkers don't magically disappear, there are Millions all over the world, what difference would like 100000 less (the newborns, who won't turn after death, but might die as well) make? not a big one. Atlanta for example is a city with x.xxx.xxx people how many do you think are still alive? not too many, since whether in the show, or the game we saw too many survivors. America has xxx.xxx.xxx citizens, how many of them do you think are walkers? exactly too many to kill so the human race has two options: die or learn to handle the walkers, to live next to them, to avoid them, to defend themselfes.
I sure as hell wouldn't sacrifice Clem (or a real person I'm close to) for such a longshot, especially since there is no time to think about it, I'd do what my instinct would tell me, and that is save the person I like/love.
If it is family or a good friend of yours, sure you will, could you look your own brother in the eyes and let him go, well knowing he'll die and become a walker? No you couldn't or you'd have to be damn heartless. This little vaccine won't prevent the human race from extinction, the walkers don't magically disappear, there are Millions all over the world, what difference would like 100000 less (the newborns, who won't turn after death, but might die as well) make? not a big one. Atlanta for example is a city with x.xxx.xxx people how many do you think are still alive? not too many, since whether in the show, or the game we saw too many survivors. America has xxx.xxx.xxx citizens, how many of them do you think are walkers? exactly too many to kill so the human race has two options: die or learn to handle the walkers, to live next to them, to avoid them, to defend themselfes.
I sure as hell wouldn't sacrifice Clem (or a real person I'm close to) for such a longshot, especially since there is no time to think about it, I'd do what my instinct would tell me, and that is save the person I like/love.
I'm not gonna be responsible for the extinction of mankind.
Are you serious? People are dying 50+ years earlier than they would otherwise. I don't care if it's my damn brother, I'm not risking the extinction of the human race for 1 person. Especially one who may very well just die the next day. Hopefully you're never put in charge of anything important.
Ok. So lets look at this in a statistical way. Before Modern Meds and certified doctors, There were 500,000+ pregnancy deaths a year for women during childbirth. There were 700,000+ Child deaths during childbirth every year. And this is before our Population was 6 Billion making these statistics even more powerful.
So now, 80ish percent of our population is dead, similar to the black death plague in Europe. Only now, the dead come back to eat the living. You really think that saving the vaccine is our way out of this mess? Even if we do get the vaccine to the military base, where does that leave us?
We are assuming that there are modern meds and certified doctors in that military base, and we are assuming there are a bunch of 5 month pregnant women there too. In reality tho, that would not be the case. There may be some scientists and some military medics who are trained for wounds not assisting giving birth. And there would not be a secret stash of 5 month along pregnant women ready to have their babies injected.
But lets say the military base does have doctors, and meds, and maybe a mom or two that find this base and are let in. Sweet. But how do we know they are at the right base? There are hundreds of bases across the US. And no form of communication linking them together
Not to mention it is tough for pregnant women to travel long distances, and many would be nowhere near a secret military base, and even if they were how would they find it. Its secret after all. And many bases will have already been overrun like the one that made the vaccine. Many women would end up giving birth on the road, without doctors and without modern meds. But even if a few did survive they would be crying, starving and attracting walkers, and they would already be born with the virus so who cares?
How many cures have we found for Cancer? And we have been working on that for years and years. Some vaccines for other diseases work on certain people but not on others, how do we know it will actually work on others? Plus to find that out, they would have had to test it on 50+ babies, and if that is the case, the vaccine in the vial is not too important because they can duplicate and recreate a vaccine using someones blood who has been cured already.
And what is to stop this military base with the vaccine from being overrun like the other one was?
When it comes down to it, its all about statistics. The odds of everything that I mentioned before working out flawlessly in a ZA are next to none. The odds however at saving a 9 year old child are greatly, greatly increased.
Plus to find that out, they would have had to test it on 50+ babies, and if that is the case, the vaccine in the vial is not too important because they can duplicate and recreate a vaccine using someones blood who has been cured already.
.
I was wrote earlier, that those scientists who knowed the formula of the vaccine, and their subjects, and all the people on the military base are dead.
When it comes down to it, its all about statistics. The odds of everything that I mentioned before working out flawlessly in a ZA are next to none. The odds however at saving a 9 year old child are greatly, greatly increased.
And what's the chance of that 9 year old surviving the next year?
And what's the chance of that 9 year old surviving the next year?
Like I said, It is far more likely for a 9 year old to survive than everything mentioned before working out perfectly. The odds are against both the vaccine and the 9 year old. But when you asses the situation its far more likely that a girl who has seen what she has seen, and done what she has done to survive a long time, especially if she is with a guardian like "Steve". She has already survived a long time, probably about 9 months or more with Lee. Now she is with Steve and they are in a plane. They could fly to an island and live out the rest of their days in peace for all we know. Clem could live to be 90. But what we do know, is that the odds of the vaccine actually saving humanity is NEXT TO NONE.
Comments
If it can be copied, it can be recreated. A small vial lost is nothing. I understand how to apply a vaccine, but how will these women get to it? It's still a zombie apocalypse out there. Communications are down. Travel is dangerous, doubly so for pregnant women. How will they even hear about it? This vaccine won't do anything. Saving Clementine will will do wonders, even if it is only in a small scope of the world.
Like I said, if all it does is prevent a dead person from turning, then it's not worth losing someone you care for (Clementine) in order to save it. A hammer will prevent a dead person from turning just as well, only messier. I can deal with a mess. If it doesn't end the zombie apocalypse, I'm not even gonna entertain the thought of sacrificing someone.
If the vaccine will get in a place like Woodbery (read comics) and if this place would has a lab with necessary equipment then there are all the chances to restore civilization one hundred years later, maybe early. Vaccine can't be recreated because the scientists who knows the formula died when horde of walkers attacked military base.
Try to open a window or door in the plane who already flying, and then you will understand why.
This is how vaccine works. Did you thought that the vaccine can be sprayed from aircraft for the whole country and all instantly healed? No, the process of the healing of humankind takes a lot of time.
Again, HOW? Even if Woodbury has the vaccine (I have read the comic recently), how is it going to reach other people? There are still billions of zombies out there. It doesn't matter if a small child who dies doesn't get back up. There are billions of other zombies out there already eating anything they find. They are the problem, not the remaining population turning into more. The lore of the comics/game already has a way to prevent people from turning, so we don't need some fancy vaccine to survive. It's better to prevent people from dying in the first place, which your vaccine doesn't do.
I mean place AS a Woodbery, with lab. Place who well guarded, where many people lives, their childrens who will vaccination can begin to rebuild civilization.
Eventually it would end the ZA.
HOW? Given the chance, there are laboratorys who could reproduce this stuff. Who says, you have the right specialists? Who says you have the right resoruces. Who says, you have enough time to craft it?
And even if you just have that one vaccine and give it to the first pregnant woman you find, her child wouldn't be able to reanimate by simply dying and maybe her child and every child her childs make. It would take half a millenia to repopulate the world with non-infected humans.
no need to call people stupid :eek: :rolleyes:
We're talking about a 60 pound girl for fucks sake... I don't know your physique, but for someone well built, 60 pounds + air pressure/wind is nothing, even before you factor in adrenaline that allows a normal person to lift a fucking 2-ton car. If the force isn't enough to break her thin little girl arm, it isn't enough to keep me from pulling her in.
That can be done just as easily, maybe even more so, without the vaccine. We already have a means of preventing a person from turning. With time, it will become little more than a routine procedure when someone dies.
As I said in my other posts, it doesn't matter if you can prevent new ones from forming when the zombies outnumber the living to such an extent. You are still living in constant fear that there will be one that sneaks up on you, you get surrounded, you mistake one for dead or one gets in your camp while you sleep. That is the threat of the zombie apocalypse. Once it hits a certain point, trying to kill them all is just a pipe dream.
The convenience of not having to destroy the brain when someone dies is not worth the life of someone with so much potential. Now, had you said you had a means to kill all zombies across the globe at once, then I'd start considering it, but that's just not gonna happen.
Sorry to be so forward with all of this. I just really like Clementine as a character that much. I hope I'm not being rude, or coming across as angry. I'll admit I'm probably being overly passionate over a video game character. I've said my piece, so if I'm bothering you or hijacking your thread, please say something and I'll back off.
That has always been the way life is. Weather it be from old age, natural causes, cancer, murder, or walkers. Death is death. The only difference in TWD universe is after you die you reanimate. So why sacrifice an innocent girl you love?
Don't apologize, it's good that you have protected your opinion, I created this topic to let people explains their decisions.
I started laughing at this part. Please, go in more depth with this.
Anyways, I would rather save the mankind. But that's because I don't have the choice to save both.
Why? What's so funny? I described the scene as it would be in the game.
People become walkers when they die and most people don't die from the infection and it is more likely to be a waste of a life
The vaccine will never be used and the hoards of existing walkers will never die
A vaccine is basically useless because basically zombies will still rip apart vaccinated children making it completely pointless
Oh, I'm not apologizing for supporting my opinion. It's just that I have been known to get a bit rude when I get into arguments on forums from time to time. It usually happens when I fall for troll bait. That doesn't apply to this topic. It's a legit discussion. I just wanted to clear the air a bit, you know? Let people know that there's no hard feelings over a disagreement. Sometimes I just don't make that clear.
Are you serious? People are dying 50+ years earlier than they would otherwise. I don't care if it's my damn brother, I'm not risking the extinction of the human race for 1 person. Especially one who may very well just die the next day. Hopefully you're never put in charge of anything important.
I'm sorry Clemy, and I know you're a little harmless girl but C'mon..
Harmless enough to get Lee killed.
...Oh..
IMHO, u should have put on scales Clem and real fate of manking to make choice harder. It reminds me of an old question «Does the tear of a child worth a piece in whole world?»
If it is family or a good friend of yours, sure you will, could you look your own brother in the eyes and let him go, well knowing he'll die and become a walker? No you couldn't or you'd have to be damn heartless. This little vaccine won't prevent the human race from extinction, the walkers don't magically disappear, there are Millions all over the world, what difference would like 100000 less (the newborns, who won't turn after death, but might die as well) make? not a big one. Atlanta for example is a city with x.xxx.xxx people how many do you think are still alive? not too many, since whether in the show, or the game we saw too many survivors. America has xxx.xxx.xxx citizens, how many of them do you think are walkers? exactly too many to kill so the human race has two options: die or learn to handle the walkers, to live next to them, to avoid them, to defend themselfes.
I sure as hell wouldn't sacrifice Clem (or a real person I'm close to) for such a longshot, especially since there is no time to think about it, I'd do what my instinct would tell me, and that is save the person I like/love.
I'm not gonna be responsible for the extinction of mankind.
For real? How intelligent are you? The vaccine is a god fucking pipe dream. It won't help with anything.
it's a hell of a lot more realistic than an actual ZA. Why won't it help?
It's more than one baby moron.
It's better than nothing.
That's what I'm talking about! A small chance for the rebirth of humanity.
Ok. So lets look at this in a statistical way. Before Modern Meds and certified doctors, There were 500,000+ pregnancy deaths a year for women during childbirth. There were 700,000+ Child deaths during childbirth every year. And this is before our Population was 6 Billion making these statistics even more powerful.
So now, 80ish percent of our population is dead, similar to the black death plague in Europe. Only now, the dead come back to eat the living. You really think that saving the vaccine is our way out of this mess? Even if we do get the vaccine to the military base, where does that leave us?
We are assuming that there are modern meds and certified doctors in that military base, and we are assuming there are a bunch of 5 month pregnant women there too. In reality tho, that would not be the case. There may be some scientists and some military medics who are trained for wounds not assisting giving birth. And there would not be a secret stash of 5 month along pregnant women ready to have their babies injected.
But lets say the military base does have doctors, and meds, and maybe a mom or two that find this base and are let in. Sweet. But how do we know they are at the right base? There are hundreds of bases across the US. And no form of communication linking them together
Not to mention it is tough for pregnant women to travel long distances, and many would be nowhere near a secret military base, and even if they were how would they find it. Its secret after all. And many bases will have already been overrun like the one that made the vaccine. Many women would end up giving birth on the road, without doctors and without modern meds. But even if a few did survive they would be crying, starving and attracting walkers, and they would already be born with the virus so who cares?
How many cures have we found for Cancer? And we have been working on that for years and years. Some vaccines for other diseases work on certain people but not on others, how do we know it will actually work on others? Plus to find that out, they would have had to test it on 50+ babies, and if that is the case, the vaccine in the vial is not too important because they can duplicate and recreate a vaccine using someones blood who has been cured already.
And what is to stop this military base with the vaccine from being overrun like the other one was?
When it comes down to it, its all about statistics. The odds of everything that I mentioned before working out flawlessly in a ZA are next to none. The odds however at saving a 9 year old child are greatly, greatly increased.
I was wrote earlier, that those scientists who knowed the formula of the vaccine, and their subjects, and all the people on the military base are dead.
And what's the chance of that 9 year old surviving the next year?
Like I said, It is far more likely for a 9 year old to survive than everything mentioned before working out perfectly. The odds are against both the vaccine and the 9 year old. But when you asses the situation its far more likely that a girl who has seen what she has seen, and done what she has done to survive a long time, especially if she is with a guardian like "Steve". She has already survived a long time, probably about 9 months or more with Lee. Now she is with Steve and they are in a plane. They could fly to an island and live out the rest of their days in peace for all we know. Clem could live to be 90. But what we do know, is that the odds of the vaccine actually saving humanity is NEXT TO NONE.