Mankind or Clementine?

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  • edited January 2013
    ... I am laughing right now.

    Good for you
  • edited January 2013
    Nuked wrote: »
    And many more are you killing by not saving the cure.

    How does anyone die by not having this vaccine? The infection it cures does nothing while the host is still alive. Curing it will only prevent a person from becoming a zombie after death, which is already possible through a variety of means. It just doesn't do anything new, so there's no need to sacrifice a living person to keep it.
  • edited January 2013
    BlackBoxx wrote: »
    How does anyone die by not having this vaccine? The infection it cures does nothing while the host is still alive. Curing it will only prevent a person from becoming a zombie after death, which is already possible through a variety of means. It just doesn't do anything new, so there's no need to sacrifice a living person to keep it.

    I guess this thing called the future no longer exists.
  • edited January 2013
    Nuked wrote: »
    I guess this thing called the future no longer exists.

    How does the vaccine give us that future when billions of zombies still walk the earth? They need to be taken care of before humanity can rebuild. Even without the vaccine, people can prevent new zombies from rising, so that's not the answer to the problem.
  • edited January 2013
    BlackBoxx wrote: »
    How does the vaccine give us that future when billions of zombies still walk the earth? They need to be taken care of before humanity can rebuild. Even without the vaccine, people can prevent new zombies from rising, so that's not the answer to the problem.

    facepalm
  • edited January 2013
    BlackBoxx wrote: »
    How does the vaccine give us that future when billions of zombies still walk the earth? They need to be taken care of before humanity can rebuild. Even without the vaccine, people can prevent new zombies from rising, so that's not the answer to the problem.
    The future as a whole would be, at least, a lot more bleak without some sort of antidote because there would literally be no end to the apocalypse. Even if civilizations were to be made, even if the current zombie population were to be diminished, new zombies would arise. With every person dying of natural causes, with every suicide, with every murder, more zombies would be created.

    Admittedly if new civilizations were to be created in the future people would treat the dying with much... distance and caution, one slip up could lead to the world falling back into the bleak existence that it is currently at.
  • edited January 2013
    No. Don't do that. I addressed your point very specifically. It is possible to get the same results without the vaccine. Just destroy the brain when someone dies. Once it becomes a part of life, the zombie population will diminish. However, the real threat is the billions of zombies that currently exist in the scenario. Humanity cannot rebuild without them being eradicated. The vaccine won't do that.

    So I ask again, how does the vaccine prevent humanity from ending?
  • edited January 2013
    BlackBoxx wrote: »
    No. Don't do that. I addressed your point very specifically. It is possible to get the same results without the vaccine. Just destroy the brain when someone dies. Once it becomes a part of life, the zombie population will diminish. However, the real threat is the billions of zombies that currently exist in the scenario. Humanity cannot rebuild without them being eradicated. The vaccine won't do that.

    So I ask again, how does the vaccine prevent humanity from ending?

    This is assuming you're just gonna find another vaccine down the road. What about people who die alone? Whose brains cant be destroyed before the turn? It's a problem that will never truly go away without some sort of long term solution.
  • edited January 2013
    BlackBoxx wrote: »
    No. Don't do that. I addressed your point very specifically. It is possible to get the same results without the vaccine. Just destroy the brain when someone dies. Once it becomes a part of life, the zombie population will diminish. However, the real threat is the billions of zombies that currently exist in the scenario. Humanity cannot rebuild without them being eradicated. The vaccine won't do that.

    So I ask again, how does the vaccine prevent humanity from ending?
    As I said, one slip up could be catastrophic. E.g. a patient dies overnight without anyone being aware, doctor checks on him, gets bitten. Doctor gets scared, doesn't tell anyone. Goes home, dies, kills family. As simple as that. It's not as convoluted as you may think too. It's not like people will always remember to take out the brain. As I said, mistakes will happen. One of which may lead to a societies destruction. Just look at Crawford.

    The vaccine is a long term solution, completely wiping out the apocalypse once and for all when the zombies eventually decay into nothingness. Without the cure, the threat of zombies will always be present.
  • edited January 2013
    Nuked wrote: »
    This is assuming you're just gonna find another vaccine down the road. What about people who die alone? Whose brains cant be destroyed before the turn? It's a problem that will never truly go away without some sort of long term solution.

    Then they become a single zombie. Easy to dispatch/avoid when discovered. The vaccine won't stop them from dying in the first place. At that point, it's nothing like the first days of the outbreak where no one knows what's going on. People see a zombie, they know what to do. They won't mistake them for a rioter, or a sick person. That new zombie won't be doing much damage, if any. The only people left are the ones who learned how to survive.

    I agree that a long term solution is needed. This vaccine isn't it. It simply has too many conditions that are too difficult to meet. I'd rather keep as many people alive so that when a true answer is found (one that eradicates zombies on a global scale), things can actually begin to recover.
  • edited January 2013
    BlackBoxx wrote: »
    Then they become a single zombie. Easy to dispatch/avoid when discovered. The vaccine won't stop them from dying in the first place. At that point, it's nothing like the first days of the outbreak where no one knows what's going on. People see a zombie, they know what to do. They won't mistake them for a rioter, or a sick person. That new zombie won't be doing much damage, if any. The only people left are the ones who learned how to survive.

    I agree that a long term solution is needed. This vaccine isn't it. It simply has too many conditions that are too difficult to meet. I'd rather keep as many people alive so that when a true answer is found (one that eradicates zombies on a global scale), things can actually begin to recover.

    What makes you sure another cure will be found. More people die everyday. Thus go down the number of doctors and scientist.
  • edited January 2013
    Crawford seemed like it knew what it was doing. All survivors, all people who can "pull their weight." There was doctors, supplies, no burdens. Regardless of all that, look how easy it fell. All of that could have been avoidable if those people were the "vaccine'd." It shows how fragile civilizations are in their universe.

    Although my comments just seem to be completely ignored in this topic so I'll just be going now. ;)
  • edited January 2013
    CarScar wrote: »
    Crawford seemed like it knew what it was doing. All survivors, all people who can "pull their weight." There was doctors, supplies, no burdens. Regardless of all that, look how easy it fell. All of that could have been avoidable if those people were the "vaccine'd." It shows how fragile civilizations are in their universe.

    Although my comments just seem to be completely ignored in this topic so I'll just be going now. ;)

    Yep one person died, and it set off a chain.
  • edited January 2013
    To me the fall of Crawford was pretty unrealistic. I bet the people of Crawford knew how to take down a walker (Brain damage), unlike the military for example. And since they are a survival group, even one guy must have been an effective zombie-killer.
    I'm not sure if they knew that bites cause a fatal infection, but I'm pretty sure any guy bit was gonna get shot by his fellow Crawforders.
    Also, the sudden disappearance of the weapons was weird too. Most of the weapons would be lying around in the corridors and streets of Crawford, if they got killed by walkers.
  • edited January 2013
    I choose the vaccine, because I love Clementine. Seriously, think about this: Clem would blame myself for everything she can never be happy thinking that because of her mankind has lost a chance at salvation. Goddamn, it's too difficult decision.
  • edited January 2013
    About Crawford. Crawford was fall, because Anna Korea, was shoot a lot of people, then they became the walkers, because of virus. This is another reason to saving vaccine.
  • edited January 2013
    CarScar wrote: »
    in the heat of moment, would you be able to let her go? I don't think I would be. My rational mind would be completely subdued. That's what love does, right?

    Exactly, when playing the game it turns to slow motion, but if you actually were in that situation, you wouldn't have time to think, you'd just do what your instinct tells you: save your loved ones.
  • edited January 2013
    ZeroShoot wrote: »
    Exactly, when playing the game it turns to slow motion, but if you actually were in that situation, you wouldn't have time to think, you'd just do what your instinct tells you: save your loved ones.

    How about adrenalin? In a dangerous situation, all the senses of a person are exacerbated, and it seems that the time drags on for a long time, although in fact we only have a few seconds.
  • edited January 2013
    There is no salvation through the fucking vaccine, humanity could achieve not by itself. But apperantly the most people here are not able to get that. THE WORLD IS FUCKING HUGE AND NOT JUST THE US. What helps you to disinfect a child in the US, when south america, aslaska and canada is still fucking swarming with the dead. And how do you get kerosine, to carry it across the atlantic? Internet? Phone?

    In the vaccine lies no salvation at all. The humanity itself is the only thing that can helps itself to deal with the crisis, getting a new world and starting to create a new civilisation, before they built another global system, they have centuries, maybe even more.

    With the right rules, community can exist, just dealing with the death by itself. A law to register, closer goverment actually checking for everybody, nightwatchers and similiar things. Soon the economy starts to blossom again. There could be ceremonies and or other systems to prevent people, which die to reanimate (which I admit, could be hard, since people don't now the time frame, a corpse turns.)
  • edited January 2013
    Varyag wrote: »
    About Crawford. Crawford was fall, because Anna Korea, was shoot a lot of people, then they became the walkers, because of virus. This is another reason to saving vaccine.
    Yeah, well the armed guards must have taken her down in a minute. I highly doubt she killed any of the Crawford's trained soldiers.
  • edited January 2013
    Nuked wrote: »
    What makes you sure another cure will be found. More people die everyday. Thus go down the number of doctors and scientist.

    Sorry. Twas time for me to sleep after my last post.

    I'm not sure a cure will be found. I said an answer. Remember, the problem isn't the infection, it's the current number of zombies. There's just far too many of them for humanity to be safe, even if they no longer turn into them. A campaign to kill all walkers is just as much answer, though it is nigh impossible the way the world is in the series. Instead, all the living people need to learn how to prevent zombies while being on constant lookout for more.

    This vaccine is too limited to represent true hope. It only works on newborn children. That mean every person still alive will still become zombies. It will take who knows how long before your scenario of a person dying alone and their zombie surprising people to no longer be a possibility. Thus, humanity will still need to learn how to deal with the infection for several more years. Brains will still need destruction until the uninfected greatly outnumber the infected. Humanity is more likely to die out before that happens unless they learn to deal with it, which has been my suggestion the whole time.

    How many women will be having children in this environment? My guess is not many. It's too much of a risk. The pregnant woman slowly loses the ability to do things by herself. She needs more resources, especially food than normal. The childbirth itself can be fatal for both mother and child. When all is said and done, even if the child is born safely, they will cause even more danger with their instinct to cry for attention. I suppose women could be forced to get pregnant, but that would just open a whole other can of worms there. We've seen how tyrannies and dictatorships work in the Walking Dead.

    So, pregnant women will either be at significant risk, or they will be in a secure community like Woodbury or Crawford. As we've seen, those places are not 100% secure. Ignorance and complacency doomed Crawford (never considered that living people may be able to cause more damage than zombies). Arrogance doomed Woodbury (a single person who thought he could take whatever he wanted caused a chain of events that got several of his people killed).

    The vaccine isn't going to save anything. I'm not letting Clem die for so much nothing.
  • edited January 2013
    double_u wrote: »

    You beat me to it!

    I'd pick mankind.
  • edited January 2013
    Nuked wrote: »
    This is assuming you're just gonna find another vaccine down the road. What about people who die alone? Whose brains cant be destroyed before the turn? It's a problem that will never truly go away without some sort of long term solution.

    You are avoiding statistics. I have already said that there is a possibility Clem gets bit and dies. I said there is a possibility the Cure will fail in saving humanity.
    The chances of Clem surviving is much higher than the cure providing a "long term solution."

    Choosing Clem does not make me greedy, I dont know where your getting that from. I dont want Clem to survive because I would be lonely without her or something, I have a wife-pilot with a child on the way remember? I want Clem to live because she is innocent. She is hope. She is Love. She deserves to live.

    Like I said before, they are in a plane, they could easily fly to an island off the shores of the US or even farther. US Cargo plains have ridiculous amounts of fuel in them. that situation is actually quite possible and probable.

    There is less than 1% chance everything will go right with your cure saving humanity. There is nothing greedy about listening to reason.
  • edited January 2013
    There is no salvation through the fucking vaccine, humanity could achieve not by itself. But apperantly the most people here are not able to get that. THE WORLD IS FUCKING HUGE AND NOT JUST THE US. What helps you to disinfect a child in the US, when south america, aslaska and canada is still fucking swarming with the dead. And how do you get kerosine, to carry it across the atlantic? Internet? Phone?

    In the vaccine lies no salvation at all. The humanity itself is the only thing that can helps itself to deal with the crisis, getting a new world and starting to create a new civilisation, before they built another global system, they have centuries, maybe even more.

    With the right rules, community can exist, just dealing with the death by itself. A law to register, closer goverment actually checking for everybody, nightwatchers and similiar things. Soon the economy starts to blossom again. There could be ceremonies and or other systems to prevent people, which die to reanimate (which I admit, could be hard, since people don't now the time frame, a corpse turns.)

    You know a vaccine can be copied right?
  • edited January 2013
    Nuked wrote: »
    You know a vaccine can be copied right?

    I stop trying here, you will never get it. Hopeless case.
  • edited January 2013
    J_Scheff wrote: »
    Choosing Clem does not make me greedy, I dont know where your getting that from. I dont want Clem to survive because I would be lonely without her or something, I have a wife-pilot with a child on the way remember? I want Clem to live because she is innocent. She is hope. She is Love. She deserves to live.

    What happened to Lee and Kenny would suggest differently. And what do you think would be the chances of her living to become an adult? What other long term solution is there? You don't just give up on something because it might not work.
  • edited January 2013
    I stop trying here, you will never get it. Hopeless case.

    You keep telling yourself that.
  • edited January 2013
    Nuked wrote: »
    What happened to Lee and Kenny would suggest differently. And what do you think would be the chances of her living to become an adult? What other long term solution is there? You don't just give up on something because it might not work.

    That's just what you are talking about too, we don't give up Clem although she might die, same goes for you and the vaccine.
  • edited January 2013
    ZeroShoot wrote: »
    That's just what you are talking about too, we don't give up Clem although she might die, same goes for you and the vaccine.

    Except Clem does absolutely nothing to potentially end the ZA.
  • edited January 2013
    Nuked wrote: »
    Except Clem does absolutely nothing to potentially end the ZA.

    she is a kid means she'll potentially live longer than an adult, means at least she delays the extinction of the human race, if she manages to survive that long, one day she'll have kids of her one perhaps. Kids are worthy for mankind in a ZA.
  • edited January 2013
    ZeroShoot wrote: »
    she is a kid means she'll potentially live longer than an adult, means at least she delays the extinction of the human race, if she manages to survive that long, one day she'll have kids of her one perhaps. Kids are worthy for mankind in a ZA.

    Say only 50 women get the cure. That means their kids won't have to worry bout turning, neither will their kids and so on. That helps a lot more to delay extinction than one girl.
  • edited January 2013
    Why no one thinks about what really would like Clem in this situation?
  • edited January 2013
    I already said, I pull her up. Mankind would have to save it self, I have a little girl to take care of, which OBVIOUSLY doesn't want to drop to the ground to end just a stain. And everybody who tries to step in my way, gonna pay for it.
  • edited January 2013
    Nuked wrote: »
    Say only 50 women get the cure. That means their kids won't have to worry bout turning, neither will their kids and so on. That helps a lot more to delay extinction than one girl.

    does still not mean they can't die, how much special care does a baby need? special food, eventually special meds, 24/7 supervision...
    Clem can shoot a gun, she is quick, smart and besides her naivety I consider her as an adult. because as Chuck said, walkers don't give a shit if you're a kid, and she has proven herself to be very mature for her age, I think the odds of her surviving for a good time are higher, than for any of those babies to become older than 5 years.
  • edited January 2013
    I mean, that Clementine is ready to give his life for the sake of the great goal because she is the embodiment of good. It proves that the mankind with dignity exist. (enough to speak about the fact that the chances for the healing of humanity are small, I know, that chances are too small). But else Clementine shows us that there is hope, who is ready to give up hope for the Ghost-dream come true?
  • edited January 2013
    ZeroShoot wrote: »
    does still not mean they can't die, how much special care does a baby need? special food, eventually special meds, 24/7 supervision...
    Clem can shoot a gun, she is quick, smart and besides her naivety I consider her as an adult. because as Chuck said, walkers don't give a shit if you're a kid, and she has proven herself to be very mature for her age, I think the odds of her surviving for a good time are higher, than for any of those babies to become older than 5 years.

    Smart enough to get herself kidnapped. So what? You just give up on reproducing and let humanity go extinct?
  • edited January 2013
    zev_zev wrote: »
    Why no one thinks about what really would like Clem in this situation?

    I have no clue what she'd want. As a 9-year-old girl though, she'd probably want you to pull her up.
  • edited January 2013
    Nuked wrote: »
    I have no clue what she'd want. As a 9-year-old girl though, she'd probably want you to pull her up.

    You are a very very deeply are mistaken, you probably still did not understand Clementine. She is not a just 9-10 year old girl. She's a unique. She understand much more than we may think.
  • edited January 2013
    zev_zev wrote: »
    You are a very very deeply are mistaken, you probably still did not understand Clementine. She is not a just 9-10 year old girl. She's a unique. She understand much more than we may think.

    You an many other people on this board WANT to think she's smart. She really isn't. You have to work on your grammar though.
  • edited January 2013
    Nuked wrote: »
    You an many other people on this board WANT to think she's smart. She really isn't. You have to work on your grammar though.

    He's Russian.
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